Originally posted this ask/trp thought it would be a good addition here.
This post will hopefully show men considering marriage how to avoid massive asset losses in the event of a divorce. I have always been a very shrewd man when it comes to my finances. Not so much when it comes to my romantic relationships, but I'm working on that now.
My story starts in the mid 90's. I had recently finished my surgical residency and moved out to a state with a severe doctor shortage. I was pulling down well into seven figures annually. However, I myself was working for this money and I always believed that having others working for you is the way to generate true wealth. So I began to open various hotel franchises, restaurant franchises, apartment buildings, etc. I was always concerned about a law suit because well doctors get sued a lot and I did not want to lose money to that, so I began researching into asset protection. The best way to protect one's assets is through an irrevocable trust. This is a trust where you are the beneficiary of all the assets within, meaning you do not own them and creditors cannot take them, but you can still access them. Unfortunately, in most states one cannot setup an irrevocable trust for himself. Nevada, however is an exception to this you can establish a "spendthrift trust" which is essentially an irrevocable trust without being called one. So I converted my franchises and properties into company stock and then moved these stocks into an account in a trust in Nevada.
Now, its the early 2000's about and my company is making slightly more than my salary as physician. So I quit working as a doctor and move full time to manage my company. At this point I was 39 years old and I began to think about marriage. So I began to date seriously. At the time, I had court side tickets to the NBA team in my city so I ended asking out one of the team cheerleaders. She's a total 10/10 bombshell. I thought I was very lucky at the time as she was the most beautiful woman I had ever been with. In retrospect, she was clearly a slut and I beta bucks. She gave birth to our first child 2003 and we got married in 2003 before she gave birth. However, before our wedding and before even setting the date I had seen my parents divorce, my brother get divorced, and several friends so I was wary. I consulted a an attorney and we drew up a prenup. At this time I was already very wealthy especially after investing prudently after the dotcom bubble popped. I had a net worth in the mid 8 figures and profits were well into the seven figures, most of it was already protected in my Nevada trust. The prenup stipulated that she would get $250,000 for every child and $100,000 for each year of marriage she was only making 30K a year so I was being generous. The prenup was signed before we even set the date and we both has separate representation. Also, the signing was videotaped with a retired judge mediating so it was clear there was no coercion. My paranoia ended up paying off later on.
Fast forward several years, it is 2009 and we have one more kid born in 2004. Our sex life has tapered off quite a bit. It is not nearly deadbedroom, but it is only duty sex twice a month. She often would use sex to manipulate me. I had become quite depressed. I had put on a lot of weight due stress. I had lost about half my net worth in the recession and to see all that vanish after years of work was awful. To compound this I find out that my wife has been cheating on me guy. I believe his kids were several years older than mine at the school they went to. I thought about what to do. My girls were my mine concern and I didn't want to risk losing them at such a young age. I was also worried about confronting my wife. I was angry at my wife, the world, her affair partner. I had done everything I was supposed to do and I was losing a lot of money and my wife was cheating on me. I have always been a vindictive SOB so I plotted my way out of the situation. Most of my anger was directed to the dude. Suprisingly, he worked at the time at a company that supplied a lot of the stuff to hotels. I called the company up and they fired him. Keep in mind this was during the midst of the recession. The guy lost his job, got divorced, lost kids, and from what I know now lives in a shitty apartment. It was shitty what I did, but I don't regret it. As far as I know my wife didn't cheat on me after things ended with the other man. This was a wake up call for me. I started to spend a lot more time with my girls and my relationship with my wife actually improved. However, I knew that long term I could not stay with someone who had cheated on me. So I began to prepare myself financially and emotionally for the divorce. Our house was very expensive and we had joint ownership over it so I was afraid of losing it in a divorce. So I took out two mortgages on it and began to put as many of our expenses as possible into credit card debt. My businesses had returned to profitability. I could have taken a much larger salary than I did. However, I kept it artificially low so that when I filed for divorce possible child support would be calculated from a lower income.
Fast forward to 2015. My girls are a bit older and I've been spending a lot more time with them and have been really enjoying it which actually surprised me. My wife and I now only have sex once a month and whenever I don't do what I want she just gets horrible and nasty, worst things I've ever heard. Men who've been in a bad marriage I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. So I finally file for divorce. As I expected she would do my wife tries to challenge the prenup and go for half my stuff. By this time my net worth had fully recovered so she would have gotten just a massive payout. Luckily, the prenup was pretty solid. And I also had a little bit of leverage. The debt which was considered both of ours that was accumulated. Our lawyers negotiated that she wouldn't challenge the prenup as long as I get all of the debt. I could wipe it out in a year if I wanted to so I readily agreed. So in exchange for the 12/13 years of marriage she got $1,300,000 plus $500,000 for our two girls this ended up being around 3% of my net worth. Due to all the time I spent with my girls we ended up getting 50/50 custody no child support.
Fast forward to today. I end up having my girls most of the time as their mother is off slutting/partying around. I think she felt she ended her youth to early. Our daughters have lost respect for her, which in truth does hurt because I will always feel something for their mother. Luckily though, I have a long term girlfriend who sets a fine example for my daughters. After my divorce I started lifting and I am truly the captain now so to say. I anticipate having to pay my wife in the future though to stay until my girls are 18 because she has almost already gone through the settlement from what I have heard.
akeaways:
-Spend A LOT of time with your kids 1. You'll love it 2. It'll help you in custody battles -Obviously get a prenup 1. Have it signed before the date is set 2. Separate lawyers 3. Signing is videotaped with a mediator present -Use trusts to protect yourself-If you have a friend or brother your trust a lot you can both setup irrevocable trusts for each other -Don't be a beta bucks. I was out of shape for much of the time and was not physically attractive to women. A good standard I now have is would childhood me look up to who I am now or want me as a dad?
Good luck men, any questions I'll do my best to answer
My only advice would be to take care of your daughters now. They are no doubt affected by the way their mother has handled everything (and the example she sets for them). Pretend what you want, your stellar GF will never replace their Mom. Going through something like this can be very traumatic and cause deep-rooted issues to develop, and without your daughters being able to process and heal from the demise of their family, they will carry baggage around that will affect them the rest of their lives (coming from a guy whose parents divorced when he was a late teen, and who carries that baggage around even 10 years later, even though I never really showed it back then).
Counseling/therapy can be a great place for them to process and accept the loss they've experienced. They need professional help to cope with and process the divorce.
Good luck, and nice post.
I don't think they need it, every kid isn't traumatized by a divorce. When I was around 5, I let out all my pain then and realized it wasn't so bad afterwards. It just depends.
Girls are affected by divorce in ways men are not. Females who grow up in broken homes have ,iirc, a divorce rate of 72%. It's high. Boys are not nearly as affected
uhh, boys are overwhelmingly more affected by single motherhood than girls are my man.
not in the divorce rate, as per the study I saw. Ill see if i can find it
That doesn't mean that 72% of girls from broken homes will have a high divorce rate.
You're right, and I didn't mean to imply that I know definitively what OP's daughters need (that would be pretty damn presumptuous).
I meant that OP needs to seriously consider whether they need it or not, that his daughters' emotional needs must be assessed and addressed given the trauma they've experienced. Main point is to make sure they are healthy and are processing and coping as effectively as possible.
You have no idea what you're talking about. I can tell you as someone who said the same shit, then started my own family and only then was I objectively able to understand the drastic impact.
The people who come out the other end of a divorce without problems aren't "lucky." They've worked through their issues with professionals OR the parents were coached by professionals.
The problems are substantial and WIDE RANGING. From role models, to attachment, being uprooted etc. It simply is not possible for a person to "work through" these issues without some sort of higher guidance.
There is a good god damn reason why outcomes of kids from divorce are so incredibly blunted compared to their counterparts. It fucks people up, straight up.
I would say like almost everyone that goes through this, just like this guy, it takes a LONG TIME to find out what the impact REALLY was, and sometimes you don't understand it till you have your own kids.
What kind of world do we live in where a woman contributing less than 30k a year is somehow entitled almost 2m in a divorce settlement, and this is considered a win for the man.
Obviously this is part of what you agreed in the prenup, but the lengths you had to go to just to ensure half your life's work didn't get handed to a wife who cheated on you is absolutely insane.
Sounds like you handled this as well as you could have though.
Lesson: Never get married. Hell, at a certain point the divorce settlement becomes an investment for her to cheat.
That should be the lesson but sadly there is peer pressure to marry. A lot of guys feel like they haven't 'grown up' unless they marry.
Luckily that is changing, but it'll be another generation or two before being a lifelong bachelor is considered an acceptable lifestyle choice. I think being single for life in 2017 is about where being gay was in 1980. People won't beat you up for it, but people think there is something wrong with you for doing it.
For younger guys it's sometimes the ONLY choice and by the time they get old/experienced enough to attract women at will they see through their smoke & mirrors, killing the magic and idea of marriage. I'd give it one more generation tops.
The majority of people I know don't see a point in getting married in the future, this is coming from someone who is 16 and also sees no benefit of marriage.
Yeah but are the majority of people you know women?
For men, marriage is a losing proposition, but it is a winner for women. Women value commitment more than men, and divorce courts are misandrist. So for them its win/win. So women will still want to marry and want to pressure men to marry. It is just a question of if the men resist.
Marry someone who had a higher net worth than you. Problem solved.
She is a joint partner in a man's life. That's what a marriage does. She gains 1/2 of all equity that gets built up from the time they got married to the day of the divorce.
It's the rules on the field.
The way I read things is that op had already built up giant wealth before marriage. That would still be his after the divorce.
Yes, at least in Canada, what you owned prior to marriage you continue to own. At least that's the simple version....basically you get to subtract from your "family" net worth the value of assets from before marriage.
That doesn't protect you from having to sell or transfer some of those pre-marriage assets to cover money needed to equalize your family net worth. Ideally, it comes from assets you generate while married.
Your also not protected from any income/growth value of any pre marriage assets.
As an example, you buy 1,000 shares of Apple Inc in 1998 (approx $7/share, total value $7,000).
You marry
She leaves in 2012 when apple is running $700/share. Total value now = $700,000.
You still own the original $7,000 in value. That means you need to split $693,000 with her even though it was a pre-marriage asset and she did nothing to earn that money.
Prenups will NOT protect against this as its a right in law and you cannot contract away your legal rights.
If you put that same $7k in a trust and signed a prenup, now she's screwed. See how a trust is a good idea.
Very simple example but should get the point across.
Thanks for the info. I'm starting to invest in bitcoin and crypto currencies (bitcoin, ethereum, liteCoin, Golem and Ripple). and I'm pretty sure I'll be a millionaire by early 30s. That would be great to have a secure investment instrument.
The courts wouldn't care that your assets are in crypto. They will still make you hand over 1/2 of the growth since the marriage.
Silly question. Can you just hide cash?
tl;dr man gets divorce raped, hamsters away that he didn't.
Just so you know, she can party all she wants now but when the time comes where she will hit the wall, she will come back begging for you to take her back. That is where you frame will be tested my man.
My girlfriend is younger and more attractive then my ex-wife. She is also kinder. Would you prefer a nice crisp apple or a bruised old one?
If you had the choice between a fresh soda pop, and one that had a bunch of dicks in it. Which would you choose? Tough choice
Man haven't u learned yet theyre never yours...its just your turn
How do you know she isn't just pretending to be kinder? A lot of women (like your ex) pretend to be nice until they know you are stuck with them either due to having kids together or being married. Once that happens, their true personality comes out.
Basically, if a guy has very high SMV (due to good looks or a ton of money/power/status) how do you determine if she actually is kind, or is just pretending to be kind until she sinks her hooks into you?
Do you see how she acts around children, animals, waitstaff? How she treats her family and friends? Stuff like that will show you her true personality.
My wifey is a weird one. She's incredibly nice to friends and extended family.
Her and I have agree we are not friends, but she's also definitely loyal and our sex life is rock solid. At the same time, she's kind of mean to my boys, 5 and 2, because she's tired of them not listening. But she's the one who wanted them.
I dunno.
I'm pretty sure domineering (often single) mothers are one of the primary reasons for male feminisation. You're going to want to keep an eye on that unless you want your boys to end up feeling intimidated by women later in life.
So why did u give them to her?
Jesus man, a woman being mean to two young boys at those ages cuz she's "tired" of them? Sounds pretty unfeminine and selfish.
It sure does. Showing her that wouldn't change it. She still makes their food and takes them places, she's just fed up with their shit all the time.
You're a surgeon with allegedly almost 100 million dollars to your name and you don't know the difference between then and than?
https://s3.amazonaws.com/lowres.cartoonstock.com/medical-medical_school-medical_student-essay-handwriting-read-rmon117_low.jpg
So then you won't be posting proof of any of the following: surgeon, married NBA cheerleader, currently worth at least 20 million dollars?
What's the point of making shit like this up? This sub has a lot of young gullible people that frequent it. However, there are also a handful of older people who see right through bullshit like this.
Whats your problem? Why are you so hostile da fuck?
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I have to admit that the clumsy spelling mistakes even I as an ESL could spot from a mile away irritated me. Then again, I am making plenty of really stupid ones myself when I am writing on autopilot, and occasionally even in my native language.
However, the story as such would be suspicious even with flawless orthography.
Most of the world's most successful people are dyslexic. Meaning they have problems with words, spelling, punctuation etc. It isn't a disability, their brain uses pictures (have you heard of a photographic memory) and can, therefore, think much faster and hold much more complex Images and concepts in their thoughts.
note: I'd like to thank the Grammarly plugin for making the above paragraph readable.
This was good stuff here. The asset protections are great to chew over.
I think she already has hit the wall. He started dating her around 2002, and she was probably about 20 years old. So she'd be almost 40 now.
There are women close to 40 who still party, but she is on borrowed time.
What is the relationship between money and happiness?
Exponential at the start then linear then it levels off.
So when you first get rich, it feels great, then it just becomes normal? Sounds like the hedonistic treadmill, people adapt to good and bad things.
Either way, you have some amazing business talents. Do you post business advice in other reddits?
You get a thousand dollars, and that's nice. Then you get ten thousand, and that's much nicer — you could now live, as a single man, on your own merit, if in poverty. Then you hit one hundred thousand, and you enter the middle class, and that's nice, but it's a no-man's-land: the cars here are much newer but not sportier (and on loans, most of them) and the women are significantly more expensive but not quite pretty or smart enough to be worth significant resources. Then you hit a million, and you're riding pretty high — now you can have a couple of nice sporty cars, a small plane, and a small-medium-sized boat, and get a woman with decent breeding... or pick up large tabs without concern and have all the strippers and bar tramps you can handle (if that's your thing). More than a million, and unless you feel like playing in the big kid sandbox with the real sharks, which most men don't, the extra for the most part just goes into bigger planes, bigger boats, and the stock market... which, the bigger better stuff is definitely nicer, but the difference between the entry-level small plane (or jet charters) and the Cirrus (or personal jet) is definitely in the territory of rapidly diminishing marginal returns: shinier electronics, a better paint job, nicer leather, a bit more head space, marketing whizz-bangs... — much less for much more.
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If it floats, flies, or fucks it is always cheaper to rent.
It sucks that not everyone will get to experience what you have for themselves. I hope I do one day. I work my ass off.
The problem is that no money means unhappiness and a lot of pain if you're not careful.
I worked for a woman similar to your EX-wife (congrats!)…
She divorce-raped her banker husband, keeping the San Juan Capistrano house, "earning" $8k/mo for each of three in child support, plus an additional $10k/mo alimony… just a fucking disaster to work for.
I got the job after installing an outlet in her house (I'm an electrician) and she tried to seduce me… eventually I became her "right hand" man, fixing all her broken shit while coordinating her bar tabs… she would buy out the entire bar multiple times a week, tear off her clothes, and take some dumb boytoy home (after much cocaine bathroom visits).
I'd DD her home then make sure her children were ready for school in the morning (so sad for them!).
Ultimately I helped her middle child escape custody by reporting to her father some of her more-irresponsible child-endangerment actions (e.g. leaving massive quantities of drugs out while her children ate breakfast; allowing her older daughter to host ridiculous Orange County parties).
Anywhoo, she's dead now, after stumbling around drunk/coked/high in Las Vegas — she found herself at the wrong end of a traffic collision.
Good riddance. Some day I'll write a book about it.
tl;dr: good for you, my bachelor father friend =P
PS Take care of your girls' brains! The eldest of my disaster's offspring is now a stripper in Virginia (NO JOKE — she sent me a picture one time, all growed up!) — despite her father's attempts at $howering her with love.
Wow, that's quite a story. Would love to read about it.
I was Ms. Matron's driver, chef, maintenance guy, and tutor/nanny to her children.
Her husband was a well-known banker to the area's super-rich — his license plates returned "RESTRICTED INFO" when run under the police scanner, which usually meant police left us TF alone (b/c VIP status).
Anywho, I remember one time while driving Ms and friends to barhop — I had to brake unexpectedly — sending their cocaine lines onto the floormats.
Next thing I know, like ravenous kittens, there are three middle-aged Butts ass-up on the 5, clawing into the piles with already-bloody noses.
An officer saw us — unrestrained passengers and all — and decided to pull us over. The first thing MS did was pull out her handpipe, torching the half-smoked bowl to "calm her nerves." JEBUS WTF WOMAN!!!
By whatever grace of god (actually, CHP is pretty damn lenient), the officer realized I was sober and acting valet… so he just told me to take them bitches home. Car wreaked of marijuana and it was obvious there were drugs in the car… but a blacked-out escalade with fading princesses inside — isn't anything us middle-aged middle-class blokes ever want to become involved with.
I swear during this entire interaction, all four of 'em were flirting with the officer (as they'd done their entire lives, beady eyes and all) in pathetic attempts of reconciliation.
I'm guessing that she was a druggie party chick before she met ex hubby, am I right? People rarely start a drug habit when they're middle aged.
I don't know what's wrong with these supposedly smart banker dudes but they seem to fall hook line and sinker for gold diggers. I once went on a date with a woman who used to be married to an investment banker. Former bikini model turned coked out spazz. Cut the date short. She behaved so badly I literally got goose bumps.
Pretty much — she began life as a trust-fund kiddo, daughter of an already-successful businessman who spoiled his princess rotten. And continued doing so until her [un]timely death (he gave her in addition to her alimony ~$2,000/month). She told me one time how she would stand at gas stations and buy gas for drug dealers [she apparently had an eye for it] on her daddy's credit card, so he wouldn't know his princess was purchasing drugs at the quickie mart for gas/BJs. A real class act… she told me this laughing while her oldest daughter was present.
She still had the mustang "Daddy bought me when I turned 16" in her massive garage. Interestingly enough, she gave me ~600sqft in the same garage to grow her "medical" marijuana for her.
Cocaine is a hell of a drug (honestly, one of few I've never tried because "one line is too much; two lines isn't enough" mentality of the average [ab]user).
Speaking from my own experience as someone who tried coke(and a bunch of other stuff) I remember it gave me tremendous confidence. But I realized that real confidence is based on personal achievements. Not chemicals. Guess I don't have an addictive personality.
You feel sorry for the kids turning into the people you'd warn your own kids about.
I think your story would make a good movie. Sounds a bit like Bret Easton Ellis rewriting Sex and The City.
Be honest, you banged her at least once
Asking the important questions =P
But hell no she was nasty vitriol. Fortunately, she quickly realized I enabled her to do absolutely nothing parental (allowing her instead to sit around doing drugs all day). So, for relatively little money [~1/12th of her monthly income] she was granted her wishes — I cooked dinner, helped the kids with homework, and had a free place to live.
I did help more than a few misguided
peersvictims sneak out in the morning (sometimes middle of the night) after she had passed out from the cocainesies.Strange how the world works: I ultimately left that kush employment after Ms. Matron lost her fucking shit in cocaine-fueled rage over my having damaged a $300.00 bong (while cleaning up in a fury because her alimony lawyer was arriving to the estate).
The real lesson here is that behavior is genetic, and genes run in families, and a cheerleader really is not all that far above a stripper — the middle-class variety, if you will.
Reproduce with the sort of woman you want your daughters to become... or have stripper-children at your peril.
Until the "she's dead" part I was wondering if she was the one to offer me coke in the bathroom of the swallows in one night a few months ago while I was visiting.
Finally a story that has a (relatively) happy ending.
If true congratulations on your success.
Exactly.
It is your duty not only as a dad, but as a man of the community to be someone the young men will emulate as they become men.
If youre fat cucked piece of shit, the young men around you will grow up to be the same and that spells disaster for the future of your culture.
If youre a respectable dutiful hard working man of integrity, the young men around you will grow up to be that. And thats the future you want for your kin, whether you have children or not.
Thank you for sharing. Why did you not go for divorce immediately, after learning she had an affair?
To prepare financially for a divorce and to establish that I was spending a lot of time with my girls so I was in the best position for custody.
That is impressive, I doubt I could have held out like that. Thanks again for sharing such a personal story.
You are worth 36 million?
You should make some business posts.
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It was his investments that paid off. A lot of doctors don't use their money that wisely.
he also lost a lot in recession, however he somehow managed to own the business side. so his business advice likely > his investments
He invested the money he made as a surgeon in businesses. He's an investor and a businessman. You'll rarely find a self made man who isn't both.
lost half his money in a recession, not everyone does. Losing half ina recession is normie level investing, and that's fine, he doesn't have to stand out.
Wallstreet playboys tweeted something about this a week ago.
if you study medicine or law for money then you will never make it.
Agreed. This guy knows what hes doing with money and I'd be interested to hear any advice he has.
The fact that he was earning 7 figures as a surgeon alone is really impressive. Most surgeons earn low 6 figure salaries.
Not specialists, my aunt makes 700k a year
My understanding is that general practitioners and pediatricians make about 200k a year, while specialists make about 300-400k a year.
Making 700k a year or 7 figures would mean you are earning double or triple what most specialists make.
Orthopedist is the highest paying specialty, and only 10% earn over 540k a year.
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Orthopedic_Surgeon/Salary
So the fact that OP was making 7 figures implies he was in the top 1% of physicians as far as salary.
He said he moved to a place with a shortage of surgeons. So, he lived in a flyover state with a low cost of living, and he could demand a high salary because nobody wants to move there.
I know someone who is a surgeon, he says the high demand places pay about 20-40% more, which works out to an extra 100k a year or so. However thats still a far cry from 7 figures. I have no idea how a physician can earn that much. I'm sure its possible, but I don't know how.
Well he did mention it was in a state with a scarcity of doctors. Labor market value economics and all...
Maybe this is the Arab in me speaking, but, no, it wasn't. It was shitty what he did. Fuck someone's bitch, and then you get karma.
It was possible that the guy didn't know but if he did I say he deserved it.
Yup, sluts lie about that shit.
...the guy has his own wife and kids, even if he thought cheer leader was single he's still a dick
This sub is great.
Bang married/attached women? AWESOME BRAH.
Dude bangs your wife?
WHAT A DIRT BAG.
Don't forget:
"ZOMG! AWALT! She cheated on me! Boohoo!"
A few posts later:
"Yea, I cheated on that bitch because she wouldn't suck my cock"
Love the irony in here.
F'real
Also the whole return to tradcon religious values and elevation of virgin females over at RoK. PUA site now exalting virginity. It's truly 2017.
it's almost like there's a multitude of opinions here.
Yeah, because we totally think and act alike. /s You could have noticed that this is a topic that is regularly discussed here and at no time a definitive answer popped up, because both are valid in the realm of sexual strategy.
why focus on the guy, IT's the woman who lets it happen and it's her you're in a relationship with. Fighting the guy is white knighting and blame shifting. weak!
This. I'll never understand the anger at the other man when the woman is the one who cheated.
It's always everyone's first instinct, even if you change that thought later on. If she cheats on you, it can be with anybody. This guy could have sex with anybody, but chooses your girl instead.
The guy who is with my second wife blames me for losing three jobs. In reality, he is a fuck up and lost them himself, they didn't really care that he was fucking my wife. They cared that he was a useless piece of shit far more.
Why be mad at him for the nature of a woman? He's just doing what he's supposed to do.
And OP was just doing what he was supposed to do.
Get mad and whine like a bitch? The dude did him a favor. Would probably still be married to the whore.
White guy co-signing this sentiment. I think the bitch was more to blame, but the other guy is no victim and deserves no sympathy. His actions destabilized OP's family and could have cost him dearly had he not been so well prepared.
You were generous to the POS. In alden times, he would have been stoned, or, you would have had a right to shoot the bastard.
Yeah, as a fellow Arab, I agree. Don't fuck with married people and expect to be safe
I love Arabs for this reason. They know how to keep a bitch in check!
yeah well when they are property and have little to no rights.
Allah Snackbar (piss be upon him)!
Yep, and OP ensured that this cunt got instant karma, good!
My opinion is I would not bother. Acting like OP did actually showed that he was invested in the bitch. What OP did after shows he was invested in his family, not the bitch herself, which is good. But that single thing I'd change.
I think you missed the part where the cunt(other bitch's lover) was the reason he filed for a divorce in the first place, so fuck him. And he was invested in the bitch enough to get a prenup to cover his assets.
So he did him a favor? Or is OP being stuck in a sexless marriage a good thing? Not to mention he stayed with her for 5 more years. Also LMAO at i don't think she cheated again.
Well done on not getting raped on the divorce but man. You married a much younger woman, a cheerleader. One step up from a stripper.
You knowingly married a young gold digger and then got her pregnant. You lost mayor money, lost frame and got fat. Are you really surprised she went looking for Chad?
And why the fuck are you blaming him? He ain't the one who cheated. Having money doesn't mean you are great at life. Keep yourself in check, be in control of your life through the good and bad. Own your life
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Once you get past all the boohooing about your failed marriage (that was most likely your fault anyway), 50/50 custody is amazing. You get the best results of your marriage all to yourself half the time. The other half of the time you get to focus on yourself. I feel for the men who only get their children on the weekend and maybe an evening or so in the week. Paying support is harsh, but losing your kids is considerably worse than losing money.
Get a lawyer and fight for 50/50. It is the best alternative to a complete family unit.
Having two fathers and two mothers competing over your love can be the best thing ever. One teaches you the shrewdness and cut-throat world of winning deathmatches and earning respect through force, the other teaches you the socially optimal solution, how to be poor and find pleasure and joy with a mat and a guitar.
Story reminds me of the writer from Rich dad poor dad: https://www.amazon.com/Rich-Dad-Poor-Teach-Middle/dp/1612680011
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Good luck finding a woman which will agree to having children under those pretenses.
In the US perhaps, I don't know, but it is commonly practiced in at least some parts of Europe. I was born under such circumstances.
Are your parents still unmarried and/or have separated?
They married 15 years after I was born and had three additional children together. They are still happily married :)
I'm happy for you and your family that it turned out well. Thank you for sharing.
Just caution on the celebration or cohabitation (states w. common law marriage) but otherwise not the worst idea. I'm still holding out for another decade I think surrogates will become cheaper and genetics will improve leading to better children with less overall complications. No need for marriage at all
The parent mentioned Common Law Marriage. Many people, including non-native speakers, may be unfamiliar with this word. Here is the definition:(In beta, be kind)
Common-law marriage, also known as sui iuris (sui juris) marriage, informal marriage, marriage by habit and repute, or marriage in fact is a legal framework in a limited number of jurisdictions where a couple is legally considered married, without that couple having formally registered their relation as a civil or religious marriage. The original concept of a "common-law marriage" is a marriage that is considered valid by both partners, but has not been formally recorded with a state or religious registry, or celebrated in a formal religious ... [View More]
See also: Cuneo V. De Cuneo | Cohabitation | Celebration | Caution | Per Verba De Praesenti
Note: The parent poster (KINGahRoo or liftpraylove) can delete this post | FAQ
Didn't even think this was an option. common law marriage is the final bitch
Played the Divorce long game very well sir.
$360 million net worth? $1mil/yr surgeon? Damn dude.
For verifying your bona fides:
Good on you, man. My mistake picking a $100k/yr profession. Time to change.
I'm not event close to $360 million net worth, though I did make more than $1mil/yr as a surgeon.
For me the worst would definitely be Fournier’s gangrene.
My franchise business is a c corp, it is difficult to put a s corp in a trust. My private practice was a s corp and not in a trust.
I do not know my macros. I try to eat healthy. My mantra is no bread, pasta, sugary sweets, or sugary drinks. Essentially the atkins diet. I'm late 50's so I only lift 3x per week. Not looking to be model just in better shape than 95% men my age. I think that is good enough.
I'm 21 yo and hope to be in the position you are, financially, at your age. Good job my man you did it right.
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Yea, you can tell because he said s corp!
Ya seriously. This place has become literally retarded.
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Have you considered posting anything on how you got started with your business investments? It seems like you've done very well and I'd love to hear how you learned to be an entrepreneur
Damn none of y'all can do math lol. He's got around $44 million.
Welcome to the internet man. OP can say any thing he wants, him being wealthy means shit to this post. The point on how to avoid divorce rape was laid on here as the title suggest, i think that's all that matters.
Thank you for your story. Very profound and thought provoking. Every few sentences I would stop and contemplate what I read. 10/10
Thank you for this post. I am applying to medical school, and I fear the worst for what will happen in the future. Also, I don't think what you did about the lover was wrong, as his actions can justify such retaliation.
This doesn't read like an older man with high amounts of education, worldly experience, and the significant income required for this tale would actually write.
As someone who is married to a doctor, I call bullshit on your post. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
Why would you give up a well paying job just to run your business? Once you are a doctor, nobody can take that away from you. Your "story" reminds me of a guy who bragged that he worked as a fireman in Edmonton and gave it up ($100k/year + OT, shift diff, and pension) to push mutual funds for a shoddy investment company (think Primerica).
The only way in hell you're making well into a mil as a gen surgeon (assuming here because you don't state what speciality you're in) is if you're a department head, or you're madly efficient in the OR and work a mad call schedule...for example, trauma surgeons are on call 120+ nights a year or 1 in 3.
Even if you work mad call schedule, how the fuck do you have the time to run the business or even remotely pay attention to it? Surgeons, not counting call typically work 12 hour days.
"I was worried I'd get sued. Doctors get sued a lot" -- You do know theres a thing called professional liability insurance right? That's there in case someone sues you and wins.
There's way more I can write but I'm on mobile and can't be bothered. Anyway, something I've learned is that if it doesn't make sense, it's probably not true. This story fits that.
The way you handled this was admirable. A lot of foresight - anticipatory planning, so when the trigger was finally pulled on divorce, you had the direction of it mapped out.
I get a strong sense from your post that you are deliberative, thoughtful with money. You are very aware of what you have at any one time, keep track accurately, are conscious of "what if's" and work to mitigate that. Your creating another source of income - outside surgery - due to the concern of lawsuits being a good example.
Where does your understanding of all this come from?
What sources of inspiration, good advice, direction and knowledge, for business and money management etc, have been the most influential in your life?
My dad was the shrewdest man I have ever met. I never had a warm relationship with him, but I respect him immensely. He weighed the pros and cons of every decision while planning contingencies and I suppose that passed on to me. I had seen to many colleagues lose money in lawsuits and divorces so that impacted me as well.
Those are character traits im going to have to develop. I'm young and tend to be very impulsive - and whilst intelligence and adaptability can offset the fallout from that, it has still gotten me into trouble.
Your story, how you outlined your thought process, and the steps you took - really emphasized how important being deliberative, planning for multiple outcomes and mitigating risk are.
Thanks for sharing, been very useful.
So you called up the guys company and said he is an adulterer and that was grounds to fire him?
Good shit. You actually saved yourself a lot of money and despite how emotional you got, you kept it real and focused on damage mitigation. You may have made a lot of "beta" moves but I think you're alpha overall.
I hope you don't get remarried. All that doesn't seem to be worth it but it's your call.
Cheers
You're a millionaire surgeon that writes like a 10 year old? Okay.
Why the repost karma farmer?
He needs more because of the divorce
how do you know this is a repost?
Because I remember their post, and if you look through their post history you'll see it was their first post two weeks ago.
Sounds like she got 1.8 mil too much to me but I guess it couldn't be helped
Besides the obvious fact, that you are able to afford legal battles, you lucked out that she is a whore and was not able to turn your kids against you plus you have a job hold in very high regards by society - might be different if you are a construction worker. If she played her cards right you would be done. Kudos to the amicable divorce result but this is an exception. Take it from a lawyer, you do not want to enter the battlefield of divorce court.
You're an inspiration to us all. Thank you for sharing your story.
I get the sense that you are genuine, and your post is encouraging.
I'm not a lawyer, but trusts were covered here in great detail a couple of months ago by a lawyer:
http://archive.is/pWzgY
His message seemed to be the exact opposite of yours. Now I am left confused, but still somewhat hopeful.
I've read this post before—it's not new.
Great post, props to the legal decimation of the other guy and the poise and grace in handling your situation with your kids in mind. I guess my only question is if you're hiring for your company!
Awesome and quite comprehensive post. Thanks for this.
Can you talk more about spending time with your daughters?
here is my takeaway
You realized it was over in 2009, but because of the legal system you had to wait 6 years to get a divorce to set things up.
Still a shitty situation.
The one thing Money can't buy is love, Money attracts immediate attention but repels love.
That's why a lot of rich people pretend to be poor. When people know you're rich, they act weird around you. It's like wtf just be normal.
Why bother with all this shit just to sign a bad contract with a mood and branch swinging bitch?
Good job on accumulating that wealth and taking care of your kids, but, my god, why would anyone marry today?
That is, unless you have THE UNICORN(tm), feel wise enough to know you're not a delusional beta about it and at the same time still want to take a gamble.
what does ''going through the settlement mean''? wtf was it temporary?
She spent the divorce money and there's nothing coming in to replace it. Solution: pay her off with a stipend in exchange for his kids. Rational solution and money well spent.
lol why would he want that meat sack around? Children already beyond age of 5.
confused because he said ''having to'' having to fuck you having to nothing!
The missing word in OP's sentence is "away" as in "stay away".
Meat sack spent most of her divorce money according to rumor. Meat sack will likely take money in exchange for staying away from the kids. OP's money spent to keep meat sack away is money well spent.
damn these women are so privileged.
TL;DR- Don't marry a gold digging NBA cheerleader
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No, those are not enforceable.
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It's not fun. My cousins bf is a peadiatric ENT surgeon. 12 hour days are common and the call sucks...especially for him because there's only so many to go around.
I don't have to worry... no girl wants to marry a guy who barely breaks 4 figures after working over 100 hours.
Setting a great example....Red Pill style. Saving this post.
You have a 60m net worth? Wow.
1.8m / .03 = 60m.
Mad respect to your sensible planning and, clearly justified, paranoia.
OP this is great! I'm 23 and have 2 businesses doing well. Will consider separating my assets soon as you mentioned in the first paragraph. Also, took notes on the prenup and having it video taped when I decide to get marry. Glad everything worked out !
Smart man. You earned your outcome and didn't victimize yourself. God bless you and your daughters. Your ex wife too.
Congratulations on your mental fortitude! And it's awesome that you kept most of your assets.
But the fact that a woman who was making 30k a year now has almost 2 million cash in the best case scenario for the man is just indicative of what a menace divorce rape is. Most men would have to toil night and day to have that amount of cash.
FSA's, Mutual funds,Precious metals, etc. I just don't want to have my feet kicked out from underneath me by her claiming child support.
Is the red pill dying? Tldr: dont get married.
Good for you dude but the fact that that cheating hoe got 1.8 million dollars you worked hard for just because she gave birth and took care of kids ( while also cheating ) makes me upset to no end.
Some work a lifetime for that money and she just leeched.
Care to give me 1mil? I would set my self up and not get married.
That woman deserves to burn in a hell that I don't even believe in
I wanted to thank you for sharing all your tips and experience. It will help many young folks who become rich and can plan for their future security. Spending all that mortgage money was a genius move. I might do that on the house I own in the future.
Now she'll likely go out and blow all the money, and probably crawl right back
Did you ever consider hiding some of your wealth in digital currencies like Bitcoin or discuss it with your lawyer?
I've always been curious if that would work considering divorce rape is also something I'm trying to avoid
Do not do that, because if you are discovered to be hiding assets she will get 100% of them if they are discovered. No if you are willing to flee the country that is different, but that wouldn't work for 99.9% of people. Also, I am very hesitant of things like bitcoin, I would only ever put a very small % of my net worth into it if anything.
A woman won $1.3m in a lottery. Kept it quiet and then divorced her husband. It got discovered and he was awarded the $1.3m.
I have a fair bit in cryptocurrencies- why are you hesitant of them?
A small amount is never a problem. There instability is what concerns. What legal recourse would you have if it was stolen? Also, at this point in time it could just be a bubble and could shortly plummet in value. I'm not an expert in this area, just my .02
These points are all true but I would recommend bitcoin as an investment to young men currently as they can gear there investments more towards the risky side.
Also the stock market is definitely building towards its own bubble we are the 8th year of a bull cycle. Crypto could spike massively in a the following downturn. That would be a good time for those young guys to cash out of crypto and buy stocks at the bottom.
Anyway thanks for bringing this up we definitely need a red pill crypto discussion thread.
cryptocurrencies are a high risk, high reward investment. So only good if you have some spare money and want to risk a bit. Look at ethereum. went up 30x fold over couple weeks-months.
I'd say that the high risk becomes more low - med risk if you are investing long term. The crypto market as a whole is going to increase
Almost all my fiat is in crypto now - got in around $100 during Ether's run up
lifpraylove's hesitancy is typical of men his generation, and is also reasonable from his perspective. Do not worry or be hesitant about cryptos like bitcoin, though. Consider yourself lucky to be in the position you are now, you will thank yourself a thousand times over when the time comes.
Two questions:
Getting the guy fired: you say you made a phone call. I'm assuming it was to someone in your network. How did the conversation go? They must've wanted a reason. Did you tell them the real reason? Or just gave them a wad of cash in exchange for the favor?
Combining expenses: how did you do this? You moved it to credit, but was it to a joint credit card or your own? Would it not backfire, as now she can point to that amount and say: 'I am entitled to half of that every month for the next amount of years as alimony' after the divorce? Also how did she not get half of the estate (house) since she was a cohabitant for a decade? It must either be an awful lawyer or you are leaving some parts of the divorce out?
I'll explain generally how I was able to get the guy fired. I own multiple hotel franchises as I stated. These franchises are all part of an overall chain think Hilton or Best Western. Now, all these hotels need soap, towels, linens, food, etc. The supplies the hotels within a chain use are standardized. I am on an owner's committee that votes on and decides certain supplies. The gentleman with whom my wife cheated worked for one of the suppliers. He was just a mid level guy so he was not too important. I simply called the supplier (they know I have a say if their products are in 1000+ hotels) and stated that I could no longer do business with them if he still worked their. Our contract is very valuable so he was fired.
In terms of the house, once I realized I was going to get divorced I took out a minimal salary from my trusts and mortgaged the house heavily and spent that money. Once it came time for divorce we had almost no equity in the house. The alimony amount was already stipulated in the prenup she signed.
That phone call was a bold thing to do, to not worry about the reputation risk it could do (gossip, unprofessional etc) but it seems that contract is quite the bargaining chip.
If I may follow up on the house. You mentioned it was worth a lot - how did you spend the mortgage? If you used it for investments (stocks, cars, yachts) wouldn't it be possible for the ex-wife to trace it back and claim a stake? Or did you just live like a pimp and spend it on experiences and vacations?
House was ~$2 million. It was spent on just general living expenses: clothes, cars, food, vacations, girls' private school. My wife spends a lot and I put a fair amount in college funds so I was able to spend it down.
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Feels very nice. You are still young do not got MGTOW.
Advice:
-Read Dale Carnegie's How to Win Friends and Influence People
-No smoking, no drinking, no drugs, and preferably no tattoos
-Pursue a degree in engineering, business, medicine, or a specialized field of law (choose one based on your natural talent and the amount of time/money you can/are willing to spend on education)
-Save heavily you can then use this capital to start side businesses to generate passive income (you are young so you do not have many expenses to excuses not to save)
-Learn Spanish, it is highly in demand
-Lift and practice stoicism
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For my medical practice I physically have to be there working to generate income. If I am not present no income. At one of my hotels it makes money without me being there. I can take a week long vacation and still be earning money during that week if it was with my medical practice I would lose a week of income.
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He's the owner, he has people working for him. He offers them money for their time so that he doesn't have to spend his own time there. Laughable or not, this is how it works.
And thats why youre a beta, little man. my whore wife cheated on my fatass? time to go chimpout at a better man for stealing muh special unicorn ho!
I'm finding it incredible that she cheated on a guy with $60 million net worth. This is amazing. If that's not enough to make you super desirable and compensate for your out of shape looks(or, well, everything else too), probably nothing is.
She knew she would walk out with 1.8 million and could remarry. She'll be fine, this story sounds sad at first, but both these people are both lottery winners. The people who have something to lose are the kids, but it sounds like they will be ok.
In this case I don't really understand the woman. I mean the guy was worth like over 30 million. At that point why do you even cheat?
Do you pray, and do you attribute any positive things from this? Asking due to your username.
I jokingly modified the move title "Eat Pray Love".
Do you think it is morally okay to take from your wife what she helped you rebuild?
As you yourself said, she got 3%.
Would you think that was fair if your daughter's future husband did the same to her?
Assuming your daughter will one day help a man and build a life with him?
Let's assess.
You admit you wanted her bc she was beautiful- equally, she wanted you bc you were rich.
So you're even there.
You lost all your money while together but she stayed married to you, and cheated with one person. Which is not ok, but you admit you were unfuckable during that time.
So still, that's a point for you, assuming you'd stay if she had become unfuckable (clearly debatable bc again, you married her for her 10/10 and complain she was only fucking you twice a month).
Still, one point for you.
On the other hand, she knew you were wealthy and signed a prenup.
So point for her and you're back to even.
I won't even start with child support, bc that's your children and if you don't want them to have their needs met at their mother's home then there's nothing more to say- that's just a window to who you are. You know the salary differences, but refuse to admit that it's wrong to assume their care is equal under two drastically different salaries. Instead you just steal the benefit of that from them.
So, I'm a woman, receiving child support, who got a fair settlement. My ex is now a millionaire, I'm not, and that's fine. It was fair.
This bullshit is not fair. I'm not saying she deserved half- although 40% would have been reasonable- since you seem clueless that you used your value (money) and she used hers (beauty) in a negotiation. (The cheating lowers her fair share). You want the emotion to cloud it but that's fact- she used her attractiveness to sign the best deal she could- SO DID YOU.
But you don't think she deserves anything from the deal- even though your behavior and hers were identical.
This will all become clear someday when your daughters marry. Their value is higher bc they have a rich parent and an atttractive parent, and they will leverage their attractiveness just like you and your ex did.
And they may live into old age with their husbands (wives) and that would be great and I wish it for them.
But if not.
Will they deserve the same treatment you gave your wife who stuck by you when you were losing money and unattractive, gave you two children and presumably mothered them reasonably, signed a prenup, and accepted a complete lie of a settlement?
There's a reason there are laws in place that are, in fact, prejudicial to women- which I saw very clearly while I went through my divorce.
You're the reason.
How did the wife help rebuild?
He had money. Married.
Lost money.
Took out debt and kept his salary artificially low while his business rebounded.
How did the WIFE help rebuild his business?
$1,800,000.00. That's a lot of money. I could retire with that much, right now. Most women don't get anywhere near that and she agreed to it. Any more and she'd probably considerably shorten her life with all the partying.
That's not really the point though.
She built a life with him, stuck by him, and her only crime was cheating, yet he gave her 3% of the assets he rebuilt while with her.
If she hadn't been around to raise his kids, he couldn't have worked as much and built the money back up.
He chose to have kids just like she did, somebody has to raise them.
how much do you pay your daycare? The kids were at school. She didn't do a lot of "raising", evidenced by the fact that the kids now shun her.
It is very easy to drop my kids off at school; I could have done that. Furthermore, as the business owner I can make my schedule very flexible and can afford daycare. I feel my settlement was profoundly generous.
Holy hell, get the hell out of here.
If you feel like you "deserve" something, go out there and forge your own path.
But you are not owed something for being a whore, jesus.
Based on the saltiness of your post, You'll enjoy Bill Burr's skit on gold digging whores. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-IGCcSNlnk
He's right, although he's missed the mark, if you imagine all women to be this way, they become that way. Have some faith and look for the best in people, and sometimes you get it.
Nope, I like Bill Burr and agree with him on a lot of topics.
This post isn't reflective of Bill, although I appreciate your appeal to authority.
If he chose to have children with her, someone has to care for them.
It's daily planning and care even if he paid a nanny.
If she hadn't been there, he would have had to pay someone else who wasn't their own mother, or do it himself, limiting the amount of time he could be at work and building his money.
That's building a life together.
She deserves more than what he gave her.
Look, I get it the laws are unfair to men, but this man is the reason why.
I don't agree with it or support it bc I saw it in my own divorce and in my ongoing child custody situation, and it should be more fair to men. (You will even find I have posted in mensrights, although not recently---which I have edited since my post was removed for linking within Reddit. Riiiiiigght).
However. This man, cheating his wife by giving her 3% is absolutely why the laws are the way they are. Because jerks like this do these things, women need protection.
If men didn't do things like this, the laws wouldn't need to be so unfair, and there wouldn't be a backlash of men's rights activists.
And why the inflammatory language? She wasn't a whore. She cheated and that's wrong but it doesn't make her a whore (not that we know for a certainty he didn't also).
That's a window into your attitudes towards women, nothing more.
Aye bud. Life isn't fair on either side. Not sure what you're trying to argue here. 3% means she makes more than i do working full time for the rest of my life.
When you don't have to work for the rest of your life, and you're arguing that she can't afford a mansion and has to settle for a modest home, (a luxery many cant afford) what are you even arguing here?
Sorry she can't have the title millionaire while she gets setup for the rest of her life.
No sympathy from me, bud.
Aye, bud.
Your names are meaningless.
The amount matters not at all.
It's what is fair for her sacrifice- her most attractive (and therefore most lucrative) years married to this guy.
You can call me names and pretend my points are easily blown off but you've done nothing to prove me wrong. Bc I'm not.
You just have certain attitudes towards women.
Yeah, nobody is insulting you here. Quit being dramatic.
Blows me away that she gets more than most people make in their entire life and somehow you think that's not enough. Almost 2 million dollars.
Just stop dude. She was paid.
My ex-wife had no part in my business success. Much of it was earned before our marriage. I never came home and discussed surgical technique or business ideas with her. Furthermore, she was never aware I lost half my net worth. Also, keeping my salary low was not a business decision it was to avoid having too high of a salary in a divorce. When the kids were at school all she did was shop, eat lunch, go to the spa, and hang out with friends. She never helped with my business.
You yourself admitted you lost money in the beginning and middle of the marriage.
You yourself admit to keeping your salary low for the purposes of the divorce!
Was there EVER a day she stayed at home with the children while you worked?
BECAUSE IF SO She helped YOUR BUSINESS! Somebody has to raise the kids you yourself agreed to.
You could not have worked the hours you did if nobody was there to raise your children.
Somebody had to care for them- You had them too.
It's called being a mammal- this is how Mammals function. The female mates for security.
That's fact.
She stayed.
You rebuilt while she raised the kids.
You're morally wrong and thank god, legally as well. I hope she figures it out in time to take you back to court.
What's amazing is that if she did the same to you- or as is more likely, some user will do to your grown daughters- you would think he was in the wrong and exploited the most lucrative years of her life (her attractive youth). Instead you find yourself justified in it.
Because of your personal stances where women are concerned.
In 15 years, you will see the truth through your daughters.
Until then, there's nothing I can prove to you or anyone else in this sub, and I'm not going to try.
Downvote away, it's not Like I expected anything else.