Started browsing this sub a while back. I thought a lot of the theory was interesting, made mental notes, and was on the lookout for confirmation in daily life. I found it some three months ago.
I am not an "alpha". I'll be the first to admit that. I'm active, fit, successful, but when it comes to straight out pissing contests, I generally lose. "Winning through sheer confidence and aggression" has never been my MO and likely never will be. Indirect confrontation is where I tend to thrive.
I got promoted about a year ago to more or less running the inventory and data analysis for my employer's global operations. Essentially a stand-in for our VP of operations specifically when it comes to inventory management and analytics anywhere outside of our home office. That means Hong Kong, Germany, Oceania, and other smaller outfits' inventory programs answer to me. The other 40% of my job is doing what I've always done: Inventory analytics for my product category in our domestic market.
Everything was going really well. I brought Germany, Hong Kong, and the rest of our global inventory into order (it was a shit show, everything is fine now). But it was tough to make people see the value I created in the home office because they didn't "see" me doing it. Numbers can only say so much to people who don't work with numbers for a living. Then about four months ago I find out that our VP hired a new analyst to focus "on e-tail". Totally blindsided, didn't even know they were interviewing. What makes it more problematic is that a lot of the forecasting I do is for e-tail. So whoever comes in is at least partially going to be absorbing some responsibilities from me. Still, not the end of the world because I have a ton of shit to do and am working on transitioning to a more global role.
But then I actually meet the guy. Total fucking Chad. Tall, incredibly sexy, built, cool, collected. You name it. I am immediately threatened, but force myself to reserve judgment because I have a tendency to snap judge people. My coworker, another analyst, tells me she despised him the second she met him. I even cautioned her to wait to judge him because I've been the new guy before and I know it can suck.
He has not been there three weeks, doesn't even know how to navigate our ERP and forecasting system properly before he starts talking about how he's going to "elevate" the forecasting. Big fan of that word, "elevate". He starts going through my forecasts and changing them. For those of you who are not familiar with being an analyst, changing an analyst's forecasts is akin to "fixing" a table that another carpenter made. It's essentially you telling them you don't think they're good at their job. And if you do it, you had better be fucking right.
My coworker and I are perhaps the only two people at our company that understand statistics on a fundamental level. She and I looked at the forecast adjustments he had made on my items and, just by glancing at them, immediately knew this kid was a fucking idiot.
The problem was, he presented himself so well and was such an alpha etc. that everyone else loved him. The men were buddy buddy with him almost immediately (he was so good at talking about sportsball) and every woman in our department save my friend were throwing themselves at him. I thought these were rational people. NOPE. The second a hot guy shows up, they go weak in the knees and forget me immediately. My friend told me that he had tried to talk shit about me to her, not knowing that we were super tight (We get drinks like every weekend and recently became business partners in our side venture. I was at her grandson's christening.). So it was obvious that this son of a bitch was gunning for me. Which was unfortunate because he was pretty hot and fun to look at.
He talked about his kids and wife to anyone who would listen, but I didn't care. I knew I had to get rid of him even if it meant putting his kids in the bread lines. So I started using logic and my knowledge of statistics to explain in our meetings why his ideas were wrong. Big fucking mistake. He just interrupted me and made stupid jokes at my expense and everyone laughed at me (particularly the women) because they don't understand the statistics or the numbers. They're morons. They don't get when the numbers are explained to them. They need to see it. It didn't matter that I was 100% correct, right? He would just try to make me look like an ass and a nerd.
The only way to get rid of him was to let him fail spectacularly and publicly in a way that he couldn't blame on anybody else. So I stopped reviewing his forecasts, knowing that it would cause us to be out of stock for some of our largest customers. I put in vacation time for three weeks about three months in advance, knowing almost exactly to the day when we would be out of stock, because unlike him I'm actually good at what I do.
I went to France and had two and a half glorious weeks with a guy there whom I am very attracted to. We saw the sights around Marseilles. All the while knowing that the clock was ticking. And then, on a Thursday, it exploded.
We were out of stock on thirteen of our largest moving items. Customers were calling to complain. Shit was hitting the fan. Who changed the forecasts to be so low? Oh, it was Chad. No matter, we'll have the other analyst fix them. Oh, she's out sick with a sudden and inexplicable illness? (She was actually at Six Flags, I believe; I had given her a heads up the day before) I guess we'll have to call that nerd we laughed at back early on his vacation to fix Chad's mess. His ticket isn't scheduled for another four days? Fuck, I guess the company has to fly him back here at our own expense because he needs to be here today! There are only first class seats available on such short notice? That's pricey. And we need to pay him for his vacation time.
I came in like a bat out of Hell, made a huge show of having to stay late to "fix this mess". I didn't point any fingers. His name was all over the forecast adjustments, so I didn't have to. He meekly offered to help me at one point. I asked him "Don't you think you've helped enough already?"
Before I went home at about 9PM that night, I sent the owner of the company an email detailing, in dollars and cents, how much this fuck-up had cost him. At the end of the next week, he was gone, all the while talking about his wife and kids. Wife and kids, wife and kids. You know who cared now? Fucking nobody, that's who. They smiled and wished him luck and got away from his desk as quickly as they could, the women included. Typical. Fits right in with women avoiding injured males. He was damaged goods now.
Not only was I still here, but I had been given a bonus for my efforts plus being compensated for my vacation time. Turns out you totally can put a price on another person, and in this case the price was a hair under two grand. So in a sense, I owe Chad a thank you because getting him fired helped me fund my retirement slightly sooner while keeping me in vodka and blow.
Chad taught me valuable lessons: Don't tolerate for a second someone moving in your turf. Don't trust people to be rational. And I taught Chad a very valuable lesson too: At the end of the day, money talks, you stupid cunt. Welcome to the jungle, I hope your wife and kids have to go on SNAP, fuck you and the used Camaro you rode in on.
I now absolutely buy TRP, hook, line, and sinker. I never thought all the people in this department were my friends, per se, but I thought they at least trusted my judgment. But no. The only person who saw value in what I did was the only other person who also did it for a living and was basically my best friend, so she shouldn't count. The second an "alpha" showed up, all bets were off and I was chopped liver. Great lessons all around.
I love this post because it's one of the first TRP posts I have seen not praising someone randomly solely because they're some cool 6'2, down to earth, jacked, hot chad. It's fucking dumb seeing people do the same stuff that made him such a nuisance in the workplace on here.
To their credit, he managed to get hired despite apparently not being very good at the job. So there's something to what he did. I feel like you need to be good at the job no matter what, but also Chadding it up can give you bonus miles. You just can't fly forever on bonus miles, but you can fly forever on being good at the job?
I just want to chime in on the "something" mr.chad did to help get his job. I'm sure his looks helped him to some level but to be quite honest your social skills weigh a lot more I have noticed. I am great at my job and I use to be jus let like you and it got me no where most of the time besides people thinking I was an asshole and a mr know it all. Fast forward post TRP...I started looking for a new job and interviewed at a very well known company. I was hired within 3 interviews the whole process was relatively quick. My boss told me months later they hired me for my personality. He said he knew I was smart but my personality won them over and if my knowledge wasn't the best they would have been patient and let me learn. During the interview I managed to connect with both interviewers and have a sense of humor along with knowing my shit. Suffice to say being able to game people and past shit test from either males or females will establish a comfort with them making you more likeable. This is what helped me and what I think may have helped Mr.chad you refer to.
I'm sure that helped. And on paper he looks experienced.
It's called the 'halo effect'
It's funny to read that because my whole life I never take overly attractive people seriously and assume they are of lesser intelligence (typically)
lol that's an interesting spin on it!
Well it's a stereotype that attractive people are dumb
Do you think he would have been in his position if he hadn't looked like the way he did? That's all im saying, is that just basing some awesome character traits on someone you've talked to once because of the way they look and acted that one time is ignorant. But yeah I will say if I had the mental fortitude to act the way he does, I would definitely experiment and do it on people in situations with a lot of new faces that I probably wouldn't meet again as a way to learn what works and what doesn't.
I have no idea, honestly. And I interacted with him regularly over the course of a total of about four months I guess. I do try to avoid snap judging people as I said (it's a bad habit and can cost you in the long run, as I've had to find out the hard way), but I think that four months or so equips you to more or less completely judge someone's character.
Sounds like fake it till you make it gone wrong. With your job you have to actually know it, or at least be willing to learn from the master. But instead he violated one of the laws of power. Never outshine the master. Even though you may not have been his boss you had the skills he needed to know to be successful and he arrogantly dismissed your skills fucking him self over in the process. Wouldn't call the guy a true chad or redpiller. If he were a true redpiller you wouldn't have felt threatened by him until it was too late.
Four months of working with someone, definitely. Working with someone can teach you more about someone than most situations
As you said, be could just don't mess with your job and nothing would happen.
Or be more reserved and talk with you to find out why your forecasts were so different. If you are soft as you say you probably would have told him and he could just say your predictions where right, or just change them by small amounts just to look like he's working (with your approval).
Yeah I definitely would have been willing to work with him. I don't want to conquer other caveman caves. I just want MY cave. Just don't come in my fucking cave and we're FINE.
First, that was beautiful. Good job.
Second, you seem to suffer from self limitation. You say you will probably never be a Chad. That's bullshit. You can become what you want if you work for it. Imagine having that guy's charisma and your current talent for the job. How sweet would that be?
That sort of self improvement has always puzzled me. I'm very good at establishing reasonable goals, developing a plan, sticking to the plan, and coming out ahead of schedule and under budget. I wanted this sort of job. So I laid out a four year plan, stuck to it, and now I'm generally where I wanted to be. I wanted to be fit so I researched a goal, gave myself a budget for memberships and training, set up a two year plan, stuck to it, and here I am.
But I've never been able to find a convincing PLAN to become a better person?
deleted What is this?
Well on the voice tone, I've heard that everyone hates the sound of their own voice, right? Because you never actually hear it when you're talking. You just think you do, but your brain is actually just cancelling it out or something. So when you hear it on recording it sounds weird and foreign and terrible. So would I be the best judge of my voice? Could I pay someone online five bucks to listen to me talk and critique my voice, you think?
He's talking about the rhythm and cadence/tone, not necessarily what your voice sounds like.. I see what you're saying and that might affect how you judge yourself but there is stuff you can improve just by listening to your own voice. I don't know if people on here do this anymore, but back about a year ago I know a few of the top contributors to this subreddit held Skype interviews with people to talk about whatever the person wanted to improve. Maybe check the sidebar or make a post about that
i actually love the sound of my voice. naturally deep and powerful. i fucking masturbate to my own voice (joking now)
but seriously, when i hear it played back on snapchat before sending a video to someone, it always sounds great. i used to think my voice sounded weird when i was younger; either my voice changed or my opinion changed (probably a bit of both). but truthfully, the tone of your voice is a simple change in the grand scheme of things and not as difficult or crucial as other larger character changes like internal self confidence, outcome independence, and strong charisma and social skills. changing your vocal tone can definitely help, but sometimes I cringe at that advice because it's like the "get a better smile" or "have better posture" pieces of advice; all of them are valid, but usually peoples' bigger issues are deeper character issues that won't be addressed by quick-fix pieces of advice like smiles, posture, and vocal tone. But hey, improve the tone of your voice, why not.
if you ever want any tips on anything else feel free to shoot me a PM, im happy to give pointers. improving your "chad" qualities is always a bit of a weird one to figure out because it's like the fitness industry: lots of bro-science, not a lot of hard truth real science. as of right now, even with TRP, you still have to muddle your way through a lot of different resources to finally understand how to improve, what to improve, etc, and if you think it'd be useful to have someone to bounce ideas off of and brainstorm I'd be happy to help.
books like Dale Carnegie "How to Win Friends and Influence People" is THE premiere book for building social skills and conversational skills and forming relationships and connections (most applicable for business settings but also for meeting new people and in general; NOT for gaming women). books like Eckhart Tolle "The Power of Now" help you to ground your mind and be free from thoughts of anxiety/depression and allow you to be fully in the moment, which comes across as a very strong and calm demeanor (since your emotional strength is literally taken to another level).
Those are definitely the two books I'd recommend to you if I were to recommend anything. I've seen huuuge gains in charisma and straight up happiness from those two books alone. I've read Dale Carnegie's book 4 times so far over the course of two years just to stay fresh.
Seriously man, if you ever need any brainstorming on what to focus on for self-improvement I'd love to help, shoot me a message anytime man.
Lots of noobs on this sub with big egos who don't want to face truth and find ways to improve themselves; rather come up with rationalizations for why life isn't going their way. Helping someone who is ready for change, genuinely wants to improve, and is detached from their ego enough to look at things objectively and without rationalization is a breath of fresh air; I feel that communicating with people like you one on one is far more productive than continually trying to help people with insignificant singular issues in askTRP and usually not getting anywhere because they don't have the maturity to admit they've been doing it wrong.
So yeah, if you ever want any ideas or a sounding board for anything, by all means shoot me a PM. I'd love to help.
Best of luck.
edit: hey by the way, I'm trying to get into data analysis, could I message you some time asking for advice? just tips on what concrete skills I'm missing and how best to get into that industry. I started this post thinking I could offer you some advice but after continuing to read the comments and seeing that you're legit at data analysis I'm like "fuck, I should ask this guy for advice", so yeah if you'd be willing to give some simple pointers I'd really appreciate it. I'm solid in R, learning python, can run all the queries I need to in MySQL, just need to do some projects to hone my skills and it would be really helpful if you could give me ideas on what to do for this. Eventually I want to get into data science through a graduate degree, but first I'd like to get some work experience in data analysis. My statistical knowledge is strong for someone with a bachelor's degree and my statistical/data intuition is also strong. Thank you so much.
Interesting... How much do you think it helps? Enough for a vocal coach to be a worthwhile investment?
I'm big on hiring experts to accomplish goals more efficiently. I hired an expert to get in shape. I hire an expert to work on my house. Even though I could do both those things myself.
You should indeed record your own voice. In a normal conversation. And then listen to it. All the 'mistakes' become obvious.
This clip was recently (re)posted to reddit. Clark Kent becomes superman just by standing straighter and speaking with more confidence. And it's convincing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIaF0QKtY0c
I hated my voice a few years ago, now I don't. I believe part of it is just getting used to it. What the brain recognizes, the brain likes. You may have experienced it yourself: you meet a guy and think he's hideous. But the more time you see him, the more barable his looks become, until you find him just average. Tat's also the reason why many of us hate our pictures, but not our mirror-image (which is, of course, mirrored and always face-on).
Listen to recordings of your voice a lot. Do you talk to yourself? Record it (you may want first think of a sentence, record it, then hit pause because otherwise it won't be fun listening to all the pauses and 'erm's. Don't you talk to yourself while alone thinking? Read some shit out loud and record it. Things you want to remember, for example a good post on this subreddit. Then listen to yourself a lot.
You can do the same if you hate your pictures: take a lot of them and look at them. Or if you're not sure if a face-on picture of yours is hideous, mirror it and you'll have better judgment.
Woah. You just blew my fucking mind.
Also, recording yourself may help you realize that you have little ticks or ums or some other time filling vocalization that you don't even realize you're doing.
I did it once and thought, "Do I really 'um' that much? Shit."
Just like when my cousin saw himself on video at his kid's soccer game & thought, "Holy shit, I'm the fat guy." And used the net year to lose about 60lbs.
It's just data, you being a data guy, some things will be obvious (like the um thing) while if you want to go deeper, you may need a coach of some kind ;)
PS-Good on you for this whole thing... Well played.
You actually do hear the sound of your own voice, from inside your body. If you couldn't hear yourself talk, it would be really weird and you won't speak the same either because you don't have that self correcting feedback loop.
The vibrations from your voicebox, nose, etc travels through your body to your eardrums and outside into the general air. It combines into a different sound than what the people who just hear it through the air hear. So when you hear your voice in a recording, it sounds different from what you hear yourself.
Also you generally see yourself in video, so you become more aware of the different perspectives of how you look compared to just the mirror.
God, I love Reddit so much. I learn about crepes in the Ancap subreddit and I learn about ear anatomy on FTP. What a wonderful life.
Practicing talking to strangers is a basic way to start. Just progress the amount of strangers you talk to per week. Other options are improv classes or some form of public speaking.
There are plenty of resources out there on approaching, keeping a conversation flowing, body language, eye contact, etc.
I think at the core you have to become extremely honest, open and loving to yourself before you can be really good at being open to someone else. Any fear will hold you back and should be worked through. Also meditation helped me to love people by default and be more calm and comfortable in social settings.
Also you have to learn about powertalk. If you don't you are basically speaking a different language. Someone on here made a really good series on powertalk, if you know what I'm talking about please post the link.
Btw. Make sure your hair and style is good. Easy gains there for most men. Fucking hair dryers are magic apparently.
Oh, I'm an amazing public speaker. I was top five in the nation multiple years in a row in Extemporaneous Speech when I was in high school. Public speaking is something I get.
Shaved myself bald when I started lose my hair a bit. Figured I'd rather be ugly than weak. Apparently the twinks who like guys with big dicks also don't mind bald guys. Also bald and fit is an okay look. So it's not all bad. And I noticed that nobody bumps into me in the street anymore. Ever. Not even in NYC. And the effect has only become more pronounced since Charlottesville. Happy coincidences.
Good call on shaving. If you are a good public speaker the rest should come pretty easily.
I honestly love being shaved. I've always had my face clean shaven because I hated having facial hair. Very uncomfortable and annoying to me.
Turns out this whole time I hated having hair on my head too and just didn't even know it? It was a really weird realization. To realize that it was fucking awful and annoying this whole time and I just had no idea because I knew nothing else.
And public speaking is more formulaic than people think. Follow the formula, realize that nobody knows you're nervous, comprehend that nobody actually matters or cares about you and the rest falls into place.
Alright, quick Aristotelian ethics lesson.
What is the good life? To be happy. What is happiness? It is different things at different times to different people, but we all agree that regular sex, good health, adequate wealth, good friends close and casual, and healthy self-esteem don't hurt one bit.
How do you attain the good life? You must be excellent in life. What does it mean to be excellent in life? It is to have the habits, knowledge, wisdom, ability, and will to make a good life for yourself.
Look around you; you will find many examples of people lacking in one or another. The old man learning how to use a smartphone has wisdom, but no knowledge. The enthusiastic teenager has ability and will, but neither habit nor wisdom.
And what of good and bad? Things are generally best at some point in between two extremes. It is good to be confident, not arrogant nor meek. It is good to be brave, not foolhardy nor cowardly. Sometimes it is better to be cocky, other times humble. It is a matter of practical wisdom, judgement in the thick of it, to determine which is the best course.
How do you get better at determining what's right and wrong? You experience them. Learn from the actions and mistakes of others. Judge, allow yourself to change your mind, move on and improve.
How do you get better at doing things? You practice them. Confidence is like a muscle; you have to continuously use it. Some are born with it, but for most- and for the greatest among us- it is practiced. So it is for every good trait. It must be trained, honed, kept alert and ready.
Now we have a better picture of the good life. It is being able to determine what is best for you, making sure you are able and willing to carry it through, then actually doing it.
Now, your plan to become a better person. What are you lacking? Inner confidence. You err on the side of meekness. You don't trust your instincts. You have a VP's responsibilities but, I bet, neither a VP's pay nor clout.
What do you have going for you? Deviousness. Intelligence. Loyalty, steadfastness, perseverance, and a view to the long term.
What does this mean? You will not be able to protect the things you love when push comes to shove and shit hits the fan. You do not have the assertiveness.
How do you fix that? Exercise your instincts. Trust them. Do something that requires confidence, keep doing it, measure your progress, and live up to it.
I refuse to leave people without a concrete plan. What worked for me? Stone cold approach. Completely sober. No lines memorized. Walk up, say hi, first thing that comes to mind. Eventually you get good at establishing an easy rapport built on nothing but whatever you are comfortable talking about.
What else worked for me? Physical activity. Lifting, but also diving, rock climbing, and hiking. Know what you can do and what you can push your body to. Never let yourself get comfortable. Always push your lifts. Get ever higher. Be comfortable under pressure.
Now you have two of three components- self-knowledge and self-confidence. You still need to be able to assert your will on others. This is the hardest part, because there are relatively few opportunities in life that allow you to do this without negative consequences. Team sports are great but not always feasible given time / scheduling. So practice it in your personal life. Don't allow people to insult you unpunished- kick them out. Don't step out of the way of strangers when you have right of way- look them in the eye and stand your ground.
This plan has clear steps and goals. It is missing a timeline because this is a lifelong pursuit.
Stick to the basics. Gym daily, be outgoing, never defend/supplicate/explain, and never apologize.
There was this reality TV show where they had all these snowflakes trying out simple tradeskill jobs like blacksmithing, welding, etc. Every one of those fuckers kept trying to shortcut and "make it their own" playing standard snowflake cards. They keep fucking up at every single turn for weeks, and one of the guys decided to just do it the right way (also happens to be the hard way). Instant results. Most people start falling in line, and they are crushing it.
Self improvement is exactly that. There are no shortcuts. Hit the gym, a lot. Start forcing yourself to talk to strangers til it feels natural. And most of all, walk around all day every day like you're the biggest baddest motherfucker alive who can do anything you want. Stop making excuses and just do it.
If a nerdy loser like me can become Chad by following TRP, so can any of you fuckers.
What do you mean by never defend or supplicate? Do you mind elaborating?
Also, I like hearing stories, yours seems interesting. Do you mind PMing it to me?
You should really look into Brazilian Jiu Jitsu... its a martial art that requires so much technical problem solving is is known as a sport filled with "a bunch of computer nerds that can kick your ass" and "a chess game with limbs"
You will get sexy and shredded playing a fun game that requires high level problem solving. What is there to lose??
Funny, I've never heard that before. I'm a big fan of racquetball for that reason. Since I moved to a concealed carry state from a very anti-gun state, my self defense is taken care of (I'm pretty well trained with my sidearm, I'm responsible with it, etc.) but it does sound fun.
I'll look into it.
I know how to destroy your rotator cuff, that doesn't help me be a Chad. It's just something I'm good at, like Muay Thai. Nobody expects me to be able to kick their ass or bench 210 lbs.
The reason there is no plan to becoming a better person is that when people say "better person" what they really mean is "a better person at X and Y things".
Better at what? The "at what" is the key question, and that's where any plan has to come from. I can't be like "I want to be a better person than these cool guys I see". I can't be a better person - but I can be better at doing things.
Failures in life are focused on "being somebody" and their goal is to be a better person to feel good about themselves. Successful people concentrate on key areas to be better than others at, and leverage that competitive advantage into a disproportionate rewards. (This is how alphas of various shapes and sizes and personalities wind up cornering the sexual, financial, and cultural markets).
A good goal is, if you are a student, to say, I want to excel in a more lucrative major than everyone else, get a better job right out of college, and learn more networking and real world skills so I can get ahead early and fast. A bad goal would be "I want to be a better person" or "I want to be wealthy".
To succeed as an salesmen or doctor or engineer or CEO or whatever it is, we can probably distill it down to 1-5 skills that you need to just be better at than 99% of the competition. If you can do that, you'll be ludicrously successful, but most people cannot just be a top %er at anything. There are certain things where your passion, your drive, your genetics, your talents, etc, will allow you to be a top% er at, and others where they will block you.
It is easy to come up with a plan to improve "at things" but almost impossible to come up with a plan to improve as a person. We have proven with scientific distinction that, for example, a certain plan and diet can get a man ripped, aesthetic, strong, healthy, and attractive from the face down.
So plan out what you need to improve at to be better than the competition in areas you care about. Finding these key areas is your challenge. Once you have found them, it will be pretty easy to find a plan to improve at them. And that's all better people are. Chad is better than a beta at talking to girls and staying cool and collected in social situations. That is a learnable skill, that plus a more fit body is probably all that makes him seem magically better to the beta scratching his head wondering how to become like that.
Read 48 laws of power. At least browse the sections. Seriously. It will give you perspective.
Just a couple of pennies for thought.
Being a better person doesn't always mean physical or financial gain.
Have you ever considered volunteering somewhere? From your description I heard a lot about YOU but heard nothing about family, friends, community.
Also, don't confuse chad with alpha. An alpha can be a chad, a chad may not necessarily be an alpha.
Back to volunteering. Family, community, friends. This is where you will find a place to be alpha.
This is a disjointed thought so maybe someone more eloquent could expand.
I actually hate volunteering. My time is valuable. The only reason I do work is because I'm paid to do it. I don't know why I'd ever do work for not-money. Like, I love my job. Right? It's my ideal career. I love my numbers.
But if I had a billion dollars I guarantee you, with 100% certainty, I would never do inventory analysis again. And it's what I like.
Halfback, HALFBACK, I just CAME nigga, fuck
Not sure yet if you're a guy or a girl, but either way you sound like a nice person. Based on how you describe yourself, I think one book in particular will be very beneficial: "No More Mr. Nice Guy," I think it'll be a game-changer.
Guy. And thanks. The title brought a smile to the corner of my mouth.
That's a good sign. It's a game-changer for me. I analyze a lot less in terms of how I want to move about the world. I more rely on embodying my true self and moving about the world with it, confidently. But I used to be a very nice accommodating guy. While I wasn't a push-over, I was pretty nice and did things for people. I can tell that you're nice, willing to give people the benefit of the doubt, but you have a good instinct in sniffing out bullshit and in the end wouldn't allow yourself to be pushed (in fact, the way you allowed Mr. Chad to go down into his own in his own flames was epic). That being said - the book does a great job shining the light on the other parts of me - the ones that aren't just "nice," "problem-solver," "accommodating" etc.
Try the book out and let me know. You'll find out within the next 2 chapters if it's meant for you to read now, or it's a book that you'll want to read at a much later age (without knowing how old you are). Feel free to PM Me. Good luck!
Just low self esteem. There is no plan for it, try Transactional analysis.
does it really make sense to become more like the guy you just fucking destroyed? Everyone knows you did it, and whats better, is that they're fucking clueless as to how. Your power will always remain a mystery to them, greatly amplifying its significance.
The tall charismatic guys win in hollywood and in sports, they fail at everything else because they weren't the ones to build any of it in the first place. There immediate success blinds them to the importance of long term planning and mastery.
I don't know how much I'll change myself as a result of my revelation (I generally think "self help" is a scam?). Just saying that I now buy into the underlying/evolutionary theory about why people behave the way they do.
I get that we're not monkeys anymore. If we were monkeys, the other monkeys would have thrown rocks at me instead of realizing they needed me to map out the coconuts or whatever. But monkeybrains do drive a decent amount of our behavior. I'd say 20% or so. Not all of it, but enough to be a deciding factor.
I also understand that nerds are necessary for society. Society needs nerds. Right? And as we become more advanced and more technological, nerds will only be more important.
As far as "changing yourself" goes, i'm in the same boat on the self help nonsense. Maybe some people get something out of it, for me, the best thing is making sure i have all my food (macros, micros), making sure i get in my exercise and maintain my strength, and if i'm looking to temporarily improve some cognitive feature, i'll take a relevant supplement.
If i go out, i take some l-theanine and rhodiola. The former provides strong relaxation without sedation (slightly improves attention), and the latter is a natural cortisol inhibitor. Very effective combo for me.
If i want to get a lot of work done, i take some choline and a neurogenic.
Going to the gym i take some rhodiola as well.
The supplements (drugs) are where the learning takes place, where the habits are formed. So long as you're not taking anything damaging, i've found this is a good way to work on some of these things.
If I want to get work done, I take Concerta.
Concerta is fucking bae <3
It's basically a drug that makes you better at everything and also you don't feel hunger. Decreases your range of emotion as well.
This.
There is no way to learn charisma, extroversion, handsomeness and height.
wrong. you can't do much about height but charisma, extroversion, and handsomeness can definitely be improved
Besides, if a person really believes those things aren't areas where you can change then why on earth are you on TRP anyway? Lifehacking the fuck out of those things are most of what TRP is about.
So you (and anyone else who says you can't learn charisma) are saying that not only have you read Carnigie, Cialdini, Cabane, and Navarro, and tried their methods, while getting down to <%14 body fat and lifting at an eRX "novice" level, but even with that much work you have not improved a bit?
If no, I'd be interested in what gives this opinion standing.
that's just good looks and first impressions.
If it was that simple everybody would be brilliant at those things.
Let's face it. Self-improvement is awesome, it is needed for all of us. But is has its limitations. In facts: I am 5'10, stocky muscular frame, baby face, upper management job and my life is in order. Next to some 6'4, blond haired, tanned, muscular man with a nice voice all my skills and abilities are beginning to vanish.
It is as simple as that. Of course I, you, and many TRPers can outcompete 70% of males just by being alive in the state that we are in, right now, but there is no such thing of being king of the hill forever, when the king of the fucking Appalachian mountains shows up. So doing what OP did is the most effective thing. When outclassed, you have to outwit. On a primal level not always the highest SMV people survived but also the smartest. Otherwise we, as a race, would have not evolved to have larger brains if pure looks were everything.
I'm confused, the post seems to indicate OP is a female. So when you say chad you're not necessarily referring to a male?
I was confused too, assumed OP was a gay man. In any case, the point remains the same. Just substitute Chad for whatever female equivalent is appropriate.
"I guess we'll have to call that nerd we laughed at back early on his vacation"
OP is a dude 👍
His being gay is irrelevant Red Pill applied to professional interactions as well. The OP was AMOG'd on the job and did a good job of getting even. OP kept frame and out maneuvered the the chad.
Unlike the sexual market, in the place the professional market place technical skills still matter if your social skills are on point. Otherwise you will become the scape goat for someone else's fuckup.
either way OP sounds really bitchy and like a jealous hater lol
i thought he already IS chad.
Obviously, he wasn't that charismatic, because the people he needed to do the job for him didn't do it. This guy is a charmer. Charmers are a sort of pretty fake that float from one bullshit situation to the next. They are very useful public sacrifices for executives in conflict.
Now, a leader? A real leader. That guy would have had OP sucking his cock while crunching the numbers. Chad don't do math.
And this is where I have a serious issue with PUA. Just pretending you are confident is what a charmer does. Smile. Practice saying witty shit into the mirror. All it takes is a tiny crack to shatter the whole illusion. To actually be confident you need to build yourself into someone that should be confident. Be strong. Be bold. Learn the analytics thingies the OP talked about. Charmers are losers with a game. Leaders are powerful.
For a first price ticket France -> US plus your vacation time plus all the fucking up of a supply chain, your time, lost reputation? Loved the post, can't understand why this number isn't closer to $20k.
Or was this your bonus for fixing it all?
That was just my bonus for fixing it all. If anything I look better than before because I made such a show of swooping in and fixing everything and it was clear I was the only one who could. VP is still thanking me three weeks later.
I couldn't be asked to accurately place a dollar value on all the stupid shit he did. His fuck ups cost the company like 300k. But that's no skin off my nose.
This is great that you got this fixed... sometimes letting things fail is the only solution if you're not being listened to.
I would argue the company fucked it up. Chad was just being Chad. They listened to him instead of you, and paid for it.
Yup, good way of putting it. It's one of those things, every village has an idiot. The idiot is just an idiot. But if the villagers elect their village idiot to be their elder, then that's their fault.
In the US, we like to put the idiots in charge of the most important things. Like, ya know, the Executive Branch.
What do you gain from this? TRP isn't a political butt hurt forum.
Good job winning this battle.
You haven't won the war yet though. Ask yourself ... why did your boss hire your potential replacement?
If your employer doesn't value you, you need to find someone who will. Sound familiar? Women, employers ... same concept. You have a scarcity mentality because you are relying on someone who doesn't value you to reward you.
Dust off your resume and start building abundance through real options. If only a small group of people in a single company are aware of your talents, you won't realize your full potential.
No, you're right. Even before TRP, I knew that a good strategy was to start looking every two-three years. They bought themselves a lot more time since they promoted me (I highly, highly doubt I could get a position like the one I'm in with only like four years of experience under my belt anywhere else, so I think sticking it out here another two years is the right move). The salary they gave me for it was pretty generous as well, so again, they bought themselves a bit more time. But that shit doesn't last forever.
He just told you you had a scarcity mentality and you responded with, "but I have no other options"
No, I just think this is the best option. I could get a job, even a good job, elsewhere. But I couldn't get a job THIS good. If you got lucky and got a really good position at a company based on special circumstances, them liking you, etc. it would be stupid to think you can IMMEDIATELY get the same job anywhere else, right? That's not actually how the market works. And it's pretty important to understand how the things you're making decisions about work, isn't it?
So if I stay, solidify my experience in this role, then I'll have even BETTER options.
The lack of options isn't a problem. Last time I was out of work it took me three days to find this job. It's just a lack of superior options. It doesn't make sense to choose an inferior option just because "OPTIONS BR0 ABUNDANCE MENTALITY!", right?
Great Story. You have talent, after all and have alpha qualities, sir. But being mindful and selective with irrational people reduces your stategic playfield and you come down to less choices. What the author above wanted to say essentially translates to: "Rarus sunt carus.". ≈ (Rare/Scarce is expensive)
Having superiority over Chad on the numbers game gives you the wrong reasons for being confident. Your will to fight and win and swallow the red pill even in hindsight of obstacles like a 'masters stats course' made you this strong in your character and in your analysis skills in this case. Stay alert, it's easy to fall prey for one's own confidence stemming from the wrong vector. Especially in our field, where dedication and talent is scarce, this fire and will brings you to the top in the long run. Usually at the cost of the social life.
So in short, yes you may have a hard time finding a better paying job. But that's not the only quality you should look for. Opportunity is a much greater reward than pay. However this doesn't toss away dogmatically your reasons for staying in after a fat bonus. Abundance mentality is a trait that can make you more desirable even illogically so, but is not the last word. I have only just come the realization to appreciate and understand the simple tip a "Don Juan" gave me back then when I was in school. He said: "Don't show interest or look after them, go and talk to them as if they're just someone." That's straight abundance mentality there now that I look at it.
I think Red Pill teaches lessons and traits that fade away blue eyed wrong beliefs about people and give you more back for the same effort. Just by changing the perspective. I don't know nothing (new here) and have so incredibly much to learn. So better listen to the sidebar 😊
What OP did by going on vacation knowing there would be trouble was the very equivalent of dread. The company saw his value, and they're on their toes...for now. Companies need to be reminded of an employee's value the same way a woman is reminded of a man's value.
For now. A hard ass cynic can see what he did and burn him for "not being a team player" later. The military is pretty good at this one and has levers that civilian bosses wished they had. Even a civilian boss will not like giving out that much leverage to an analyst they have no intention of promoting to higher ranks. A 2k bonus, that's peanuts enough to keep the OP happy for now. They can still find a replacement for the OP in 3-6 months once this incident is forgotten. OP please have you resume dusted off.
My guess is if you didn't go on vacation Chad would have shifted blame on to you and you would have been fired and Chad would have taken over.
Well played.
Glad you put that guy in his place, thing is if you're gonna talk the talk you better be able to walk the walk
Everyone loves ethos, lives for pathos
Logos... Well "the appearance of logic" is important too
Yup. My experience has definitely confirmed that. I thought these were rational people. Nope. I now believe less than 5% of people in general are rational.
Now to learn how to be as persuasive as chad. Otherwise, you'll always be the best low level analyst around
I'm in charge of like eight analysts across the globe and am the highest paid analyst in the home office. But point taken.
This is pro-revenge material. Consider posting it there.
I'm confused, are you a woman?
Gay guy. I considered mentioning it to avoid confusion, but I try not to come out and say it unless it's explicitly relevant to the story. And in this case I judged that it was not.
We could tell you were salivating writing about him.
Oh, I'm perfectly willing to admit he was super hot and I would've gone down on him and let him fuck me in a heartbeat, despite being a top in 99% of scenarios.
But I would never let that distract me from my work. And when he started coming after me, I just made my alarm wake me up five minutes earlier so I could jack off before work. Dilemma fucking solved.
But I'm not going to sit here and say he wasn't hot. He totally was.
EDIT: Actually if I'm being completely honest, the fact that he was hot definitely made me enjoy it even more. I wouldn't have savored it so much if I wasn't attracted to him.
I have laughed 99% of the time I've spent on this thread. This thread is all about layers.
I'm sure some therapist somewhere is scribbling frantically and having a field day.
Being hot fucking matters. A good friend of mine (who I actually am unsure if I want to hang out with anymore) has no job - other than selling drugs - is 30 years old, and lives in his parent's attic. He routinely steals from stores, and cheats on his 21 year-old girlfriend quite often.
Despite these "anti-attraction death sentences," he is drowning in pussy. It's totally insane.
Guys - remember all those times women turned you down for a night of fun because you "didn't have your priorities straight?"
Your priorities had nothing to do with it.
You just weren't born hot enough.
Man. Sounds like the rest of his life us miserable, though.
So gangster you're a gay guy buying into the Red Pill. I know it's not just for straight guys, but obviously that's the vast majority of the believers
If it's right, I buy it, generally. It's super important to abandon positions that are wrong and immediately adopt correct positions if they prove themselves correct, imo.
Wait, so jacking up before work every morning turns you off from sexual attraction to coworkers ? I did that for a whole to turn off my attraction for a girl I was working with but I felt it was not sustainable and the returns were not so obvious. I was sacrificing a lot for the sake of a bitch.
Jack off before making any decisions.
Do I need this thing? Jack off.
Do I want to fuck this girl later tonight? Jack off.
So I want to do this very risky thing? Jack off
If the answer is yes after you clear your mind, then do it.
It doesn't get rid of it. But it definitely takes the edge off. And it's not like it was forever; I just had to last til I got home and could usually arrange something pretty quickly. Getting sex as a gay guy is super easy. Even when I was super average and plain looking. Technology, relative youth, and being big in the dick department made it pretty easy to hook up with someone if I wanted to.
And now it's the same thing, but they message ME first. But even before that the fish basically jump into your net. Unless you're super fucking ugly you can find someone decent looking to have sex with you.
I vastly preferred the extra five minutes of sleep, though.
I just logged in to let you know that "jacking off part" made laugh the most out of everything! This post is gold
Same here. Despite doing it for multiple months the insane, Kafka-esque humor of the whole thing never struck me til I wrote it on Reddit.
hahaha you sound like a cool dude
It's my suspicion that your office gf felt the same way about him. Operative word being 'asshole'.
I'm not sure. When I met her I thought she was a lesbian. Close cropped hair, very masculine, and of course she's in a traditionally male role. But she has a husband she seems pretty devoted to. To the point that she helps him support his children that he had with another woman (he does okay but my friend makes substantially more) and raises them as her own.
I've come to the conclusion that women have weird taste in men and that physicality matters much less to then than it does to me in many cases. My co-worker also has a very, very strong tendency to snap judge people based on first impressions/minor things. She decided she didn't like the guy super quickly and said it was because she thought he was fake. Either it's a broken clock being right scenario or she's actually a decent judge of character. Either way, I'm happy she went to bat for me.
Yeahhh, I kinda got a whiff of sour grapes here, esp. the parts about the Chad's wife & kids suffering for his cis male sins.
Some gay men, just like some women, will attack an alpha who rejects them, even implicitly as per their innate sexual orientation. It seems to me that that little sabotage was sexually motivated on your part, OP. Was it because he was "gunning for you", or because he wasn't?
In this case, despite any potential spurning, I think the main point of conflict was the fact that op's credibility was sacked for appearance.
It was actually because he was trying to get me fired. If I fell into the category you're denoting (which I know exists) I'd be insisting up and down he wasn't hot, etc. You think anyone in that category will flat out admit that the people who "reject" them (I put that in quotes because I don't think it's possible for a straight man to reject another man) is attractive?
Sex and romance are just a numbers game, ultimately. Like applying for jobs. Just keep asking and you'll get a yes. And you only need one yes.
To me, his attacks on your position at work seem trivial--- but I wasn't there. His sophomoric attempts to usurp your standing at work & ignorance of his own incompetence aside; as I understand it you sent him up the river without ever attempting to settle the matter directly. Is that so?
You reiterating how sexy he was doesn't absolve you of the bias you have as a gay man. An intelligent gay man can be as threatening to a charismatic straight guy as vice versa. Could you have handled things in a way that benefited both parties? If no, then props for your successful passive-aggressive agent provocateur routine; it may have saved your neck.
I'm also a gay guy who lurks on TRP and other similar forums mostly because I'm interested in it's unvarnished take on human psychology and sexual dynamics. .
Getting laid as a gay guy is really easy and does not require much seduction as long as you have a nice Grindr pic. Since I'm more LTR oriented, I enjoy the seduction process and love having an attractive partner so I do practice some seduction techniques to maintain my current relationship. I find that nearly all advice here applies to men to varying degrees. I'm wondering what your experience has been, if you've tried it and don't mind sharing.
Yeah, I've used multiple analogies. It's the difference between fishing and having the fish jump out of the water, crawl onto your plate, and cook and season themselves. Sometimes they use too much garlic or, inexplicably, oregano, but it's fine either way. Very little effort involved.
Honestly, I quite like that I was able to read the majority of your story without even wondering about your sexuality. So much of this sub is focused on women and pussy, and here I am taking legit lessons on manliness from a dude who doesn't care about either. Bravo, bud.
Good FR
On a separate note, How does TRP work for your sexual strategy? Are there situations where it isn't applicable?
Just curious what brought you to trp?
I forgot. It was something I knew about in the back of my head for at least 6 months though.
Dude, I think you are giving too much personal information. Unless you changed some key parts of the story. This kind of stuff gets found out.
Oh, trust me, I changed enough stuff and kept them consistent throughout. Also my office doesn't know I'm gay. I changed the time frame involved, changed the countries, changed the industry, and changed a ton of small details. Also my company is not technologically literate to the extent of finding stuff on social media/reddit.
Does your office friend know that you're gay? If you were straight do you think you guys would still be platonic friends? Sorry if that's a rude question.
Yes. And yes. She's not... in my age group. Based on how she speaks about her husband it seems that their relationship is largely platonic/companionship based. I've noticed a lot of people who marry a little older tend to be looking more for a friend than a romantic partner. I think she fits into that category (she's like 50).
She's like a cool aunt.
you used law 16 of the 48 laws of power perfectly Law 16: Use absence to increase respect and honor
Irrational arguments always Trumps rational arguments. He AMOG:ed you. He attacked your image. He used the same tactics that Trump used in the debates. Read some posts from Scott Adams blog. Great comeback though.
This was a good read, but 20 years from now OP's 'Chad' is gonna be ahead in the game. People aren't nearly as rational as they give themselves credit for. OP might have won that battle, but in the bigger picture, he'll lose the war.
In most industries, I think you'd be correct. But in data analytics everything is 100% transparent and everything is 100% measurable based on data. As we saw in the end. He couldn't deny he fucked up. It was impossible.
Chad was unemployed for six months before he came here. And now he's unemployed again. What's he going to do? Tell employers he was unemployed for nine months? Tell them he was unemployed for six months then fired after three months? Lie? Lying is a dangerous game in the job search.
None of his options right now are great. He needs to find a job beneath him, hold it for a little while, then find a leg up. Maybe Chads in general do better, but this Chad in particular is very much a goose with an injured wing at this point.
The point you were making in your post is not lost. Take what you learned from 'Chad' and apply it to your situation. You saw first hand what TRP can do in spite of incompetence. Now add your skill set on top of that and you'll be killing it, bro.
He may not be able to do the job, but with that level of incompetence he will make a fantastic manager and leader. /s (I have nearly universal contempt for all managers and leaders whom have never done the job they manage, because they all suck at it)
This is exactly where he's going to wind up.
what indicated that? his losing a large sum of money for a company and staining not only his but the companies reputation? He got a train ran on him by the laws of power. This guy aint winning anything for a while bud....
Homer using the same strategy. Relevant to the whole post.
You accidentally capitalized trump because he is the president and you probably type things about him every now and then. I just thought it was interesting that it has affected your capitalization.
Just a theory about your theory and about the red pill theory.
What you wrote only made me come to the conclusion that TRP effect of being Alpha and super confident no matter what (even if you're wrong) only brings out the inner retardation and pathetic assessment of other people who fall for it. This is why I don't think you should give a fuck. Let's call him "Chad" for the luls. This guy is clearly a douche bag, and the people who fell for his shit were equally as dumb. People who actually had a brain noticed it quickly and didn't fall for it. Those are the people you should be looking to get close with. Why would you want to be a Chad and fool a bunch of idiots into throwing themselves at you.
What you did wasn't beta but alpha in itself. You made a concrete decision to let this guy fuck up knowing that it would be in your benefit. You did what you had to do, and it's guaranteed people there respect you more and see you in a more alpha position. All you need to to act rightfully confident in everything you do there now because you don't need to pretend to. The only thing I think you need to work on is to just better express who you really are, which is clearly TRP as fuck.
The TRP action you saw was more TRPFIAF. (The Red Pill Fake It And Fool)
Great read man. It's a tough pill to swallow at first but eventually the reality of it slams you in the face. Amazing job at taking back what was yours
Please do not encourage homosexuals to post here.
"I had to get rid of him, even if it meant putting his kids in the bread lines."
Cold OP
love it
COLD AF!
Hands down one of the most interesting stories I have read on TRP. I get the "Luis Litt" vibe from OP for those who are watching "Suits"
Valid tactic, give someone enough rope, they'll hang themselves.
Sorta dealing with that at work now but not at near that level, nor is the other guy all that bad at his job, he's just TOO ambitious and is biting off more than he can chew, and it's starting to show to even those who love him. I just make sure the things I keep recommending are well documented and every time what I recommend could be handy I am sure to let those affected know "yeah if we had better <x> I could fix this".
That rope seems to be coiling around his neck a bit now.... tick tock man, tick tock.
Yup. Always, always document everything. You know why?
You get to choose what documentation gets lost. When shit hits the fan, present the pieces favorable to you. Exfoliate everything unfavorable. If someone else HAS those unfavorable documents too, oh well. You didn't gain or lose anything. Never claim they don't exist.
Biggest takeaway imo here is when you get a new job don't go around stepping on everyones toes. This idiot would probably still have a job if he befriend OP and allied.
Then after a long time of learning his job he could very subtlety sink the knife in his back.
The problem with this guy is he was stupid. Don't go in to a new job guns blazing.
Ps fuck sportsball
Of course you're here too. Hello, fellow Ancap.
Your OP would have been even better if it actually happened. Still a good read.
Knew you would say that. See you back in Ancap, slut.
Must've felt so sweet to get that revenge lol.
It was pretty great. And I'd be lying if I said I didn't sexualize it just a little bit.
I wish I could have taken a more active role in the whole thing (rather than fucking him over in absentia) but at least this way my hands stayed clean.
Sounds like a job well done to me. Always good to escape and the company will realize how valuable you are to the company.
Yeah, I like the "employers are like women" analogy.
This needs to be posted in revengeporn.
That was some very Machiavellian shit, and I'm sure a 48 Laws of Power aficionado would be able to draw some lessons from this as well. Good read 10/10.
That's just law 16 put in action
Good job. You strategically got revenge. Best way to do it. I must say that its great to see a gay man on trp. I would be extremely interested to see a post from you about what it is like to be gay. I'm just curious.
Well, it primarily involves having sex with men. And thanks.
Why not go to a bi-curious sub?
Interesting point on how often people don't appreciate work that they don't physically see getting accomplished. It's something I've struggled with in the past, if i can see a task I can get done quickly I do it. No fuss, just like to tick it off my list so to speak.
The incompetent folk who run to the boss and take twice as long to get even the most simplest of tasks done seem to get the praise. Their bosses see the 'effort' of them going back and forth and running around and mistake it as some sort of work ethic. If you get things done without asking questions, more often than not people will look at you as if you're not doing anything. Its the catch 22 of where being good at your job makes you seem lazy.
I hate the need to pander to management at times.
Yup. That's why it's nice to give the boss an "update". Just to let them know you did this, this, and this. This thing you did is still going really well. Everything is under control.
This should be made into a movie.
Yeah beware the charismatic smooth talker who is good at getting hired, but terrible at doing the job. The longer they last, and the faster they get promoted the worse the organization becomes.
To OP, welcome to the fold. We are on opposite teams, but playing the same sport. Nice play.
It's really important to understand what a TRP guy is up against once you develop the presence and charisma.
When you look at people who survive in organizations, what are the skills that keep them there? They may be uninteresting, not the sort of people you would socialize with, with limited ambition and a complete inability to inspire others but never, NEVER, underestimate their survival tools. Watch the boring and stupid ones. If you don't know what makes them deadly enough to survive in such an unremarkable way, watch your back.
The OP pretty masterfully calculated how much risk his company's customer relationships would bear, and measured out how much sabotage the company could survive, then used it essentially as a personal line of credit to focus it and burn a rival.
The OP is what I would typically call a piece of shit, the sort of person an officer would have traditionally executed on a battlefield, but some specimens are so exemplary you just have to take your hat off to them. Dude, nothing personal, this is just the post game.
The higher up you get in an industry, the more likely you are to encounter people who survive using a similar calculus. This is the game you need to know how to win. Not talk, not explain, but reason about and win.
I have a draft of a post about this kicking around somewhere, as this guy operated in the organization like a woman. That he's a gay dude is fairly consistent, as they develop successful ways to operate outside the hierarchical way that men usually organize in. Throughout history, gay men have always been close to political power for that reason. The most successful ones are not what anyone would call great and admirable men, but they often become politically powerful in a similar way to how women do. Guys who say "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned," have clearly never fucked with the gays.
"Chad's" key asset came at a cost of his attention to detail. His assets were charisma but also a higher risk tolerance for uncertainty on estimates, which helps organizations in a lot of ways that OP probably doesn't get.
The true mistake was smack talking the OP, who he should have recognized he needed as if not an ally, at least neutralized earlier. Gossiping was a bitch move on this "Chad's" part, along with underestimating how far someone like the OP will go to fuck him. Chad was right in isolating the OP out of the gate, but he failed to deliver the right killing blow.
This is a great post and story. From a TRP perspective, the OP is what happens when you don't deliver the killing blow.
Nice analysis. You stroked my ego a bit. Thanks.
May I ask why? To be completely clear, I was not going to go after him til he came after me. I just wanted to do business; he wanted to put me out of business. I was perfectly willing to let him go be stupid somewhere til he came after my lunch.
Or is it just because of my tactics? I'm a piece of shit because I didn't out-Chad the Chad. I out-nerded the Chad and that's dishonorable or something?
I'm new to this as I mentioned and am curious as to the rationale. Because, certainly from a moral perspective, I feel I did nothing wrong. Though I certainly don't consider myself a moral or good person in general. I met his kids and wife and looked them in the eyes knowing I was trying to get their husband/father fired, smiled, went home, ate dinner, had sex, and slept just fine. But it was self defense, arguably.
He dislikes you because he feels he cannot relate to your personality, and feels that he can relate to "chad's". You presented yourself as a threat to him and people like himself, which is why despite respecting your efforts, he doesn't think highly of you. Him bringing morals into it is him rationalizing.
Considered this. In a large org, or institution the OP does really well, you maybe even use him as your enforcer, so long as you never give him too much power. But, if you are a small team focused on an objective for the teams survival, you have to cut that guy.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I guess it's valid to mention your points. But what would you do differently in such a situation? I'm really interested in your opinion.
Actual things I would do are in another comment, but summarized as:
Managing someone out is another black art entirely, and the OP used one of the more crude but effective tactics (sabotage).
Willing to bet OP's management team understand what happened.
OP, if you are still reading, did you get a raise or bonus for this? If not, this was the first volley, and they are trying to get you out.
His whole story is about how he defeated a Red Pill guy. Ignore the title, he is passive aggressively mocking his own flawed understanding of TRP.
I thoroughly enjoy your story of besting someone with your strength. His attitude showcased how many "chads" or alpha-wannabes got the bitch-slap when they messed with the wrong people in life.
What's funny? They probably won't learn from this.
The Chad in this case got nothing going on besides his good look and charisma.
He had only 2 ways to "win" here:
Won you or your colleague over, had someone as his office bitch that work for his credit and glory, switched company or department before SHTF. Rinse and repeat in new place. Branch swing until he is a CEO somewhere, then got that severance package.
Won boss over with his charisma, studied at his spare time to the level that somehow outshine you, got new bitches in office, then laughed his way to the sunset. (close to impossible)
Yet, Mr. Charisma over here did nothing to secure his position besides riding on his charm like a one-trick pony (while nobody is willing to ride along besides him yet).
Yea...Chad kinda has no ammo, let alone a "killing blow", as far as this war is concerned.
I guess you shouldn't take /u/0xdada comment seriously when he misread the situation as badly as the Chad.
Edit: look like at least 19 idiots misread the situation as well.
Jesus, the butthurt is strong in this thread.
The people you work for, they are there based on relationships. You can be a crab in a bucket or you can build a team to elevate you.
The difference in skills between two people in the same job may seem like a lot, but from a buyers perspective, most of us don't care. We do care about getting value for money, and someone is running around breaking windows and blaming their competitors, nobody wants to pay for that.
Good leadership is probably the biggest red pill of all, and being a PoS is not sufficient to get you there.
Naw man. The PoS thing is that there are people you trust to be on your team, and people you don't. You put the entire company at risk to burn a rival. If you had created a positive-multiple revenue win, I'd be asking for a lesson.
So, I don't know you, but I've known many people with similar capabilities, so I hope you will bear some projection.
Would we be friends? Probably. Would I pick you to storm a barricade? Even if you were a ninja, I couldn't because I need a tight team.
What you did was moral in a survival context. In a hierarchy, that let's face it doesn't really exist anymore, it weakened the tribe.
That chad guy lost because he was a gossipy bitch who lacked a killer instinct.
You, however, are the reason people need killer instincts. ;)
Oooo gonna stop you right there. If we trusted each other, the company would never have let him do the things he did. Right? So if there was MUTUAL trust, the situation would have never arisen in the first place.
I must say: Good choice. I will confess to not being the kind of guy you want storming a barricade. Even a metaphorical one. I'm the guy you want on top of the wall, with nowhere to run to. Then I'll fight like Hell because I have no alternative.
This warms my heart.
This is better than any punk ass HBR case study anyway.
My view on this is essentially the "Scorpion and the Frog," fable. Of course you did it, it's your nature, and all things considered it was well executed. I'm not going to bro-shame you. It's like watching a goalie get scored on by Beckham and telling a team, "if you aren't playing at this level, you're going to get beat."
I wouldn't get caught up in the morality of it either. Ethically it was an outsider play, but when you are an outsider, that's the game. Where you (OP) might fall down is looking for insider acceptance for your exceptional performance using outsider rules. I think you've mostly owned it, but take care in choosing who it will impress. Not everyone is capable of paradoxical thinking. (so not judging, but totally judging.)
Regarding personal/mutual trust, you trust your organization and the people in it to do what they have to because you have shared goals and values. If that's not true, you need a leadership change.
Sabotaging his position "saved" the company something that it was taking a specific risk on to get a larger return. The leadership failure that led up to this situation was not clarifying your respective roles. When they left your role threatened (or potentially set you up as the fall guy), you defected, secretly blew their risk game, and cost them in upside, recruiting, severance, etc. I see this in companies with weak leadership all the time.
Sometimes we all have to play outsider rules, and perhaps I shouldn't rain on your parade. But we can agree this story has a lot of dimensions.
I'm not offended at all. I think your analysis has a lot of insight. Thanks.
I'd argue that the "incompetent chad" character would have damaged the company no matter what (assuming he is as incompetent as OP says). Especially if he kept amassing power, and eventually got the kind of hierarchical immunity that would stop him from facing the consequences he did in this post.
/u/halfback910 just forced the company to diagnose the source of its inefficiency, as opposed to letting the company die from a thousand small cuts over time. I liken it to the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Had the U.S. not made such an immediate and grandiose display of power, japan wouldn't have surrendered until their entire country was rubble from years and years of smaller scale firebombings.
As for preferring a "tight team", OP was not in a "tight team" to begin with. He brought up the mistakes that were being made before any consequences arose from them, and was belittled for it and laughed at by his coworkers. From what I gather, your idea of a "tight team" involves a preference towards charismatic, confident team players with questionable competence over "Machiavellian" (read: rational, logic minded) workers like OP, even in the context of a goddamn Data Analysis job. Op's company had the same preference, and it cost them.
The long term damage this type of Chad could have done to the company given enough reign dwarfs the short term damage to the company this burn play did. Institutionalized incompetency kills productivity. So in a way, OP by acting in his own interest, also acted in the company's interest as well.
OP, I would recommend you keep an eye on whomever hired this guy, if you aren't already. This may have been a one-off "mistake", but then again, it may not be. Parasites have a way of embedding themselves in any ecosystem after all.
I see this view a lot. Sure, if that chad guy were a psycho douche, it's a problem. But risk-averse beta personalities couching it in "the long term," are often just self justifying their own risk aversion.
You see it with debt financing. Sure, nobody wants debt, but sometimes to grow and get somewhere, you need to take it on. People can huff and puff about how wrong it is to be in debt and how you are just paying for it later, but the chad making that call is betting he can pay it out of growth. That's what makes companies. The same is true for some levels of technical debt.
There is always pushback, but if they resort to sabotaging growth to stabilize their position, they are pieces of shit. It is a cancerous attitude. Arguably what a good technical manager does is get product while preventing that attitude from infecting the rest of the organization.
If the leadership sucks, and are a bunch of beta pleasers, then yes, taking on debt is just kicking the can down the road because they do not have the growth mindset necessary to hit the growth.
fuck the tribe bro, if the tribe doesn't care about the individual, the individual has to cover his own ass. in OPs story, his tribe (his company) literally stopped giving a shit about him; why should he have their backs?
I'm going into corporate land to make a bunch of money. I'll treat everyone I encounter with fairness and respect, but if someone's a threat to me and people don't have my back, then I'm not an idiot playing a moral game, I'm focusing on my survival and that's it.
He let someone hired to do a job, do their job, and came back before it caused too much damage.
You're not responsible for masking other people's inadequacies, and you're probably better off bringing their shit to light sooner rather than later.
I've done it before in my own job. Help those who ask for help, but those that are gunning for your position and talking shit about you, don't feel any need to let them know their parachute is packed wrong.
Of course, but if your job is parachute packer and hand someone a miss-packed parachute, you are a piece of shit.
Seems subtle, but it's a world of difference.
We're really stretching the metaphor here.
They're both parachute packers. He's been fixing the other parachute packer's mispacked mistakes for a while, and got no satisfaction informing the company that the new packer can't pack parachutes.
So he took a holiday, and the third parachute packer took a day off on the day of the big jump.
Someone who was moving up the ranks of parachute packing, and was talking smack about the other parachute packers, had an opportunity to prove that he could do the job that the company was paying him for, and he failed.
It is NOT YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to cover other people indefinitely. You inform management that their new employee is incapable of doing the job. If you get no satisfaction, you can either quit the job or let them expose their own incompetence. OP expedited the exposure of incompetence, and saved the company money in the long term by doing so.
I can't take you seriously if you truly think OP is a piece of shit for allowing someone who was paid to do a job, do their job. Taking holidays that they were allowed to take, and flying back to help the company... all AFTER informing the employer that this guy was full of hot air.
Nothing more can possibly be expected of a person in that position.
What possible future would make OP not a piece of shit? Should he have coached the dude on how to take over his job. Should he have quit and let the company come groveling back to him when they're a million in the hole?
What would you do if you did a job well, and some upstart came in trying to push you out, but they were a hazard? What's the 'not piece of shit' thing to do?
Agree totally. OP's opponent was not what I'd call alpha at all, but a poseur. But OP doesn't sound the least bit heroic either -- he was just being the kind of asshole who posts all the time in the revenge subs.
If there is a lesson to be learnt here, in or out of the sexual arena, it is to avoid making unnecessary enemies, but also, avoid trusting anybody, or needing to.
Fair. I actually thought the OP seemed pretty self aware. It was a situation where the leadership failed. I was hard on the guy, but not without some compassion.
If you take highly intelligent people with systematizing and quantitative skills, and then run them off the rails, that's basically how you get super villains.
We all do shitty things sometimes, and posting to other men gives us a sounding board.
Thanks. I generally rephrase "don't trust people," as "don't underestimate people," because you actually need some of them, even awful ones, to take your side once in a while. :)
I agree, his passive aggressive play hurt people trying to help him, or worse, depended on him. And his rival was not Red Pill in the least, just some overconfident incompetent. OP said his Forte was 'indirect aggression' and his story is all about how he bested a Red Pilled guy, but 8n the in end it was his flawed understanding of TRP that fried an overconfident, probably cucked, beta, and OP did NOT or ever would win against an actual Chad.
OP brought the incompetence to management and was belittled. I'm interested to know what you think he could do better.
I have no idea, I am not an analyst. But I wouldn't have labeled a guy as TRP, simply because he was a good looking straight dude. And I'd I did somehow, I wouldn't come here and brag about how I 'got him'. Don't you see the gist of the story?
Could you expand on this, please?
If you don't demonstrate the background to understand it, it's difficult to know where to start.
See my other comments in this thread about debt, leverage and risk.
this is the most unique post i've ever read here
Massive bonus that you got to leave Marseille too because that's the biggest shithole in Europe.
Made the mistake of going there a few years ago; felt like I'd stepped through wormhole to Africa.
I employ the same tactic at work. I AMOG and pretty much do the bare minimum. IT WORKS! The difference between me and this guy is that I know the work thoroughly and when shit hits the fan I have the ability to step in and save the day. When things are easy sailing though I kick up my feet, let everyone else do the work and bullshit about lifting with the manager. Not saying it's fair or right, but what I am saying is that I do it.
I've long known that it doesn't matter if you're actually good at your job, all that matters is that people like you or not. Doesn't matter if you're sweeping the floor or calculating rocket trajectories, all people care about is if you smile and give them a warm fuzzy feeling. Well in my experience the incompetents know exactly how to dig in and survive while making you look like the loser, it's refreshing to finally read about one of them getting canned. Fuck that non-reactive, taking the high road approach. It's getting old. Good to see someone prevailing for once over the mountain of bullshit.
Brilliant use of Law 16: Use Absence to Increase Respect and Honor.
This is more a field report, than finance. Solid post, brother.
Read that CIA negotiator book I recommended over MRP. Hint: (or "the red pill of human interactions"): we are NOT rational beings and we will NEVER EVER be rational.
Overall, solid post. And welcome.
yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah if this were real, the contents of this post would eventually get back to OP for failure to double check on his junior's work. Good shit post though. 10/10, would give all the karma points if I could.
You were the Chad in this situation. Actually knowing how to do your job & demonstrating it affords you status in the company. You have leverage to fit her your career, while the other dumb ass who apparently was acting like it was highschool is out of a job and is an embarrassment whose career will go to shit. His wife's probably fucking some dude on the side, lol.
"I went to France and had two and a half glorious weeks with a guy there whom I am very attracted to" Hmm, are you gay male or a female? I'm confused
DITTO! confused as well.. tell me when you know
EDIT: He is a gay guy. OP mentions it in some comments.
"Money talks, you stupid cunt".
Awesome job dude, sometimes unfortunately, many people value charisma and a 'dominant personality' over actual skill. It's one of the things this sub is most right about, crafting both for yourself is where you really hit the jackpot.
Law 9: Win Through Your Actions - Never Through Argument
Any momentary triumph you think you have gained through argument is really a Pyrrhic victory: The resentment and ill will you stir up is stronger and lasts longer than any momentary change of opinion. It is much more powerful to get others to agree with you through your actions, without saying a word. Demonstrate, do not explicate.
Brilliant. Machiavelli would be proud.
Nice post. At the end, you won. But:
"At the end of the day, money talks, you stupid cunt. Welcome to the jungle, I hope your wife and kids have to go on SNAP, fuck you and the used Camaro you rode in on."
This is just bitterness showing. Aim to become a stronger man, but learn to empathize and ask, "what makes someone do what they do?" When you truly understand it, you will become a better man for it.
This guy was confident on a subject he didn't know very well yes, but the only reason he got away with it(for a time) is because you didn't put your foot down. "Listen buddy, I'm the big boss analyst around here, so take a step back and don't touch my forecasts."
"So I started using logic and my knowledge of statistics to explain in our meetings why his ideas were wrong. Big fucking mistake."
This is only a mistake because you didn't know or weren't confident to reiterate. Logic and statistics will always beat an argument just as long as you are able to confidently and smoothly show your points and crumble the other person's argument.
All of this could have been avoided if you had some balls tbh. Good luck
Your company is shit. I wouldn't stay there. Out-compete all these morons back down the competence hierarchy.
Morons reach critical morass and drive out the square root who make half the productivity. Then we fuck it up from a new ship.
After reading: seems like this is a good example on how to turn bs into an opportunity!
There's a lot of TRP/Ancap crossover.
Are you a homosexual? Why would a heterosexual guy care about another guy being hot? Or maybe you're a woman?
A lot of people are asking why he think guys are hot lmfao
"And I taught Chad a very valuable lesson too: At the end of the day, money talks, you stupid cunt. Welcome to the jungle, I hope your wife and kids have to go on SNAP, fuck you and the used Camaro you rode in on."
Jesus dude you sound so fucking bitter.
Woah, unexpexted lunchtime gravedig.
If someone comes after your job it's pretty difficult to not take it personally. You're saying that you don't want me to be able to make my mortgage payments. You're saying you want me to retire later. You're saying you want to take games off my steam account. So yeah, I was bitter at the time.
I work hard for what I have. And at the end of the day if I have to choose between me and someone else, I always pick me. 100% of the time, seven days a week.
I don't think that is why you hate him.
I wasn't a fan of his personality, obviously. But there are other people like that and I don't hate them. I think it's pretty natural to hate someone who tries to get you fired.
Have you ever had a real world job?
My take is that you would have hated him even more if he was competent and didn't try to get you fired.
Lmao seriously? You genuinely think I would like someone who tried to get me fired more than someone who didn't?
You are not an adult. Calling it right now. You are not an adult, have never had an adult job or bills to pay. Because no functioning adult could realistically say any of what you've said.
Good job. I hate these Machiavellian, passive aggressive fucks. At least you had the brains to see the implosion coming and basically made this asshole eat his own lunch. You post screams of the 48 Laws of power!
you do realize that what he did is machiavellian, right? machiavellian =/= passive aggressive. there's people on here who have been the little guy their whole life and are now lashing out. eventually they will come into balance as they gain more maturity and life experience.
i just wanted to set the record straight with your vocab, that's all. and by the way, the 48 laws of power are incredibly machiavellian. machiavellian philosophy is basically just "the ends justify the means"; morals and morality bear no relevance, and all that matters is the approach that yields the best result, even if it's "immoral" and does some damage to some people (what OP did to his coworker).
have a nice day
Yeah - but the guy came in with Machiavellian tactics used to fuck people over. It's one thing to use them for personal gain, it's another to mess with people in a negative way. I hear you. But Karma can be a bitch.
Dear god, that gave me a justice boner. Welcome to the jungle indeed, man.
Great job OP very detailed and I saw some of the points made here. Now what would be the way of confronting someone moving in your turf, or even better what would be the correct way to become the new alpha as a newcomer.
I guess just be an obnoxious douche like him: Become straight, talk about sports, work out chest more, then intentionally wear tight shirts to show it off, buy a highly overrated and fuel-inefficient automobile that's associated with masculinity, park it where everyone can see, make fun of my betters, and keep talking about how I totally got laid at least twice (which is how I view talking about your kids).
I will apply this in a more rational way, and by the way great revenge story mate. My goal is to mix logic and this character and see what lies down the path.
Thanks. I'm never going to buy a muscle car, though. I don't like ostentatious consumption and I think any part of the car that does not facilitate you getting from A to B or being more comfortable in the car is just ostentation. So for instance, ornamentation, flair, etc. Ostentatious consumption has never sat well with me on principle. It feels decadent and wrong.
Also to be clear, I was at least slightly joking.
Haha I do not like muscle cars either, I like the Porsche 911 more. You have a point though, your way of thought is interesting. Do you practice Stoicism?
No, it's more that I have a very special, loving relationship with Capitalism and money and dislike consumerism so I strive to be an example of how Capitalism and consumerism are not the same thing.
That being said, I'm a stoic for like 9 hours M-F while I'm at work. Nobody except my one friend knows anything about my outside life. And she and I conduct most of our friend-chat via texting while at work and save the deep dish shit for when we're grabbing drinks after. And she's the same way. I'm 90% sure nobody else there even knows we're friends.
May I ask what education you got for that job? Quantative finance?
Haha. Human Resources. And then I learned I hated humans and loved inventory and numbers. So I switched trajectory.
I see. Anyways you did good putting that man in his place. Just for context, may I ask if you are homosexual?
Yup yup.
It doesn't. There's no game. Everyone wants sex all the time and it's super easy to get it. It's like the difference between having to pull water from a well or just having a stream to dunk your face into.
Nope. Gayer than a cum-flavored popsicle.
That sounds awesome. Too bad analsex stinks.
Disgusting hedonistic STD ridden homosexuals are the worst. Their partners counts can reach the thousands as they spread herpes, gonorrhea, GRIDS, chlamydia and syphilis to the general population. They call you a bigot for questioning their "right" to donate blood to infect the "breeders" they hate so much. A homosexual in THEREDPILL is no different than a transexual in video game programming. Nothing but drama, ego and mental illness.
Where to begin?
People with STD's who don't behave responsibly are the worst in general.
That would be awesome!
LMAO syphilis? What is this the 1800's? Do we spread Tertian Fever and Polio as well?
Talk about projection. I wouldn't donate blood if I could. It's my blood. Also you think homosexuality can be spread through blood transfusion? I... I don't get it.
What a fucking bizarre and specific metaphor.
Oh, yup. There was tons of drama before you showed up. Now, thanks to you, there's way less drama.
It's the fucking red pill. Isn't that supposed to be good?
You're the one ranting about syphilis and blood donations. Look, I don't take it personally. I like homophobes. They give the best head.
Faggot
Handsome only gets you a good first impression, if you're actually stupid you have no durable influence.
This is missing the whole point, tho. If one is minimally competent, handsome kicks them up 3-5/10 points.
Amazing post. Very good read. I wish you success.
Amazing comeback man.
That was something straight out of 48 laws of power. You should read the book if you haven't already.
Damn, you took shit from your coworkers for a full 3 months before he fucked up?
Well, since we buy things from China it just takes 3 months for fuck-ups to be noticed by anyone but analysts. But yes, I put up with the derision for 3 months or so and waited patiently. I don't actually care about any of their opinions, I was mostly just annoyed that my warnings weren't being enacted.
Good for you buddy. You orchestrated a symphony power moves behind the scenes bravo.
How you handled that story seems pretty alpha to me. Not sure I could do it. It has confidence in it, eg. that you can actually fix his fuckups, being selfish at the cost of him and the company. Most people would not be able to pull this off. Well done, Sir.
The fucking stupidity of women is really a mind blower when it really clicks on a deep level.
Oh bro, that was superb!
Check this out, I think it's you I know it's me.
great read too, well written, thanks for sharing
This is really good material on office dynamics and I've actually learned something valuable from this, so thanks for that.
Question, If he had tried to work with you rather than undercut you, would you have taken a mentorship role with him and taught him the ropes, knowing that he could potentially take your job if he became good enough?
Another question, what would be good form to practice if you were Chad in this scenario. Do you try to befriend the guy who you were brought in to replace or do you immediately set yourself apart from him and take over, after all, he was brought into a leadership position and he had to perform as a leader right?
Well he wasn't brought in to replace me. There was zero reason we couldn't get along. The issue he is that he was obviously trying to get rid of me.
If he had been cool, I would have been cool. I don't know that I would have gone out of my way to bro it out with him, but I certainly wouldn't have gone out of my way to hurt him.
Sportsball. Hahaha love it.
What is this "sportsball" of which you speak?
You are not understanding what happened. You make it sound like chad did all this. He didn't, management did. Your management brought in this chad to change And to fix some perceived problem. These analysts always are top level management stars because. They put them in that position and his success is their success.
There's also another lesson: Does someone just barged in your turf and tries to out-alpha you? (Because let's face it, you were the leading person that everyone depends on) Let them blow themselves up. You figured out his weakness (his inability to deliver results that matter) and you played upon them by retracting yourself and giving them a taste of how things are without you.
Thing is, people end up being comfortable with how things work that they take people and things for granted and their brain assumes things. I know a guy who's just a waiter but he absolutely crushes it, he's basically the sole reason the restaurant receives great reviews for its service because everyone else sees waiter jobs as "something you do for the money" but he enjoys the social interaction. He gets showered with gifts and invitations from high prestige guests, but he's basically a pussy because he refuses to risk asking for a raise and instead let the boss hire incompetent people to work with, and he ends up doing all the work.
If I could just shove the 48 laws of power in his thick head I would have done it.
Great Post! I know this might be off topic, but have you ever thought about trying Jiu Jitsu? Cheers!
Thing is, he wasn't actually an "alpha" for two reasons:
There is no such creature. Alpha and Beta (et al.) are just behavioral archetypes, and both behaviors are exhibited by all men, as exemplified in your own story by...
...the fact that this guy was an idiot and sucked at his job. In order to lead people effectively, you actually have to be good at those things required to lead them or you end up making a fool of yourself and losing all respect (from men and women) in short order.
Fuck yes! Being truly alpha is not just on looks and confidence. It's also about intelligence and building up actual respect. Therefore, in that respect, you crushed it, well done sir.
Great post man. You offer a unique perspective on TRP that shows that it's very true and it works/ it's everywhere.
Goes to show how far empty small talk humour can take you.
The guy who gets people to kick his boots isn't always a true alpha. A true alpha leads from the front with competence and isn't faking it til he makes it, and thus can never fall. Clowns like this come and go. Destructive people who chant their way in are alpha-lite. On a longer timeline they fall where the real doers learn from other people's mistakes, as well as their own and stay at the top when they get there by being truly ready for it. I loved your story. Reminds me of sociopaths I've had to remove from my path by getting them to overplay their hand and spin their tires into oblivion.
Great job, he had it coming
Fucking nice. This read like a pro revenge form me. You handled that like a fucking champ. You tried talking sense into him and your coworkers, you even gave the mother fucker a chance, but at the end of the day you exposed him with with the only language people understand. MONEY!
Great post! I love to hear about little corporate adventures like this because even though they don't pertain to my field specifically I'd like to think I can take take the lessons into my own life. If anything I definitely understand corporate life better.
At the end of the day, money talks you stupid cunt, welcome to the jungle. Brilliant.
Nice one OP, thanks for your business case. BTW, there are lots of laws observance on your text, but here is a resume of it:
OP: Law 16: Use Absence to Increase Respect and Honor
Chad: Law 1: Never Outshine The Master
Rule 47 , in victory don't go past the mark you aimed for is the moral of your story. (for chad)
edit 2 : you know what chad was in the job for. he will learn from his mistakes and make a better hit at another company. that is if his wife won't make it harder for him.
Yeah or his kids. Imo having a wife and kids is a huge disadvantage. It makes you less maneuverable and forces you to be less risky (even though Chad clearly took risks).
huge disadvantage because you can't be frugal, put time, take loans etc.
but yeah he was looking out to get some, so thats understandable. he didn't just go full duche in some unknown office ( although this is a possibility )
Well played OP.
Social skills and social proof matter a lot more than technical skills. If you cannot present and make a business case to match Mr Alpha Chad you are mud.
People don't understand the technical stuff nor do they want too. Its hard, it doesn't fit into their neat little box or plan, nerds aren't trusted. More importantly the technical route is not the traditional way to rise in the hierarchy and power in the modern civilized world. Social and sales skills mater most followed by financial skills modern civilized society.
Again well played OP. As warning to other planning similar revenge. OP took advantage of his intimate knowledge of his company and his reputation and relationships with in the firm. Your circumstances may be different.
Thanks for the story. Now ill learn how to defend myself from this kind of situation.
As much as I would say congrats to you I also cant help but feel this guy has done this at other jobs. After his fuckup I would have asked him what was he thinking?
TL;DR - Post cliffs
Also, OP is gay?
Maybe OP is a girl. Mind blown lmfao
This is why I got into academia.
Corporate life pays but fucking hell are people stupid (women and men, the former perhaps moreso on average).
I wonder how my smart quant friends working on wall street or in analytics can stand their job. I guess they have different priorities in life.
I an proud because you let him fail, and stayed true to doing your job the right way. I'm glad you didn't fight him, because you can't fight charisma with logic. Foolishness has to expose itself.
The company is totally complicit in hiring and listening to him over you. They needed him to fail to see who they need, in order to be successful as a company.
At work we call these pain points, where the only way a company or culture will change for the better is to suffer enough to do something about it.
What does this have to do with TRP? TRP is not about revenge.
I'd say despite the obvious revenge factor, this is more a story that is meant to teach the principles of attraction and how to stand up for yourself
Sounds like you are now more "alpha" than before this experience ;)
You are a fuking passive-aggressive bitch.
Was I supposed to help him not get fired? Or challenge him to a fight in the parking lot? What would you have done?
You did the right thing. I've been in that situation and so has my sister in her jobs and we did the exact same thing. Let them fall on their paper machete swords. The biggest take away from all this is that you didn't fall into Chad's frame by being his corporate wingman. like a lot of thirsty betas do. Those that say this particular Chad will win the war, BS. This Chad is married, so he's lost!
Hey i thought you were a fuking bitch and come straight to your face and said it AKA like a man!
Seriously, how old are you? In the adult world you don't stir shit like that without risking your neck. People are responsible for themselves, halfback gave the dude fair warning about what he was doing and was ignored. Using his examples, a verbal confrontation in the workplace risks your job. A physical altercation risks your freedom (jail) and your job. Helping him to keep his job isn't his responsibility either. Consider the options, the maneuvering he did was masterful.
Fuck me, I always wonder what kind of pussies people like you that try to act hard on REDDIT must be like in real life
Geez, I dunno, wouldn't want to work with you. He moved in on your turf and we hear your version of the guy and events. Then you create a bad situation for your company to make the guy look bad. I would never put a company in trouble like that. You didn't mention the total cost to the company and that includes reputation and client loyalty.
No, I did not create a bad situation for the company. I just stopped catching his mistakes. The two are different, right?
They created the bad situation by hiring someone incompetent and giving them responsibility. I just LET him do those things. Did it hurt me, deeply, to see my inventory and numbers get hurt? Of course. It hurt a lot. I'm attached to them, I'll admit.
But I intentionally caught enough of his mistakes and fixed them to contain the cost to what I believed to be enough to get him fired, but not enough to cause serious damage. In this case just shy of 300k in sales. The actual results were quite close to what I had calculated they would be. A little under because I didn't anticipate a slight dip in demand on one item. If I had not been reviewing and changing his other mistakes (which was not my responsibility!) that number would have been millions.
That being said, if I did have to actually cause the problems to stop him fucking me over, could do it and have a 100% or close to 100% chance of getting away with it? Yes, I would do it. I won't lie. At the end of the day, my concerns need to be about myself.
Is that what happened here? Unequivocally, no.
Homosexuals LOVE drama, and will destroy your company and it's relationships to be catty.
The "chad" probably wouldn't let this deviant suck his cock, so he ruined his life and constantly made fun of him having a wife and children. Homosexuals hate breeders.
No, you let stocks run low and clients complained. That's sackable IMO. Knowing something will hurt the company and not advising people reflects badly on you.
First, it's not as though I had a responsibility to review all his work. I did not. He bombed 200 forecasts. I fixed all but 13 of them. If I had not done that, the results would have been catastrophic. It's their fault for trusting the wrong people with the wrong responsibilities. Not mine for forcing them to see it.
Second, it was better for the company long term. Small pin-prick now versus Chad ruining my forecasts and us being out of stock constantly?
They may not know or understand it, but they're better off because of what I did. There was unfortunate collateral damage, but an ounce of pain now saved a pound of pain later.
Finally, if they had listened to any of my warnings this would not have been necessary. I tried to point out what was going on and they laughed at me. They wouldn't listen to reason so I had to find something they would listen to.
I feel like your emotions are wrapped up in this. You're invested in the success of Chads everywhere. The idea that one of them failed, demonstrably so, is unsettling to you. Not everyone wins all the time. That's just the way it is. And when people are bad at their jobs it is in the best interest of everyone that they lose them. The company and society benefit from people not doing things they suck at. By allowing him to lose his job I did everyone a service. It was the right thing to do. And I assure you, I minimized the cost that it would take to get them to take heed and finally listen as much as possible. I reduced millions in losses to a comparably paltry sum.
I'm not defending Chad. I think the right approach is to advise upper management in email about the future catastrophe. Either they take it seriously and Chad has to fix it, or it fails and you can say it is exactly what you predicted. The fault is on management for not taking you seriously.
I just think making him look bad and costing the company money is the wrong strategy.
The risk is they just say I didn't warn them enough, Chad pins the blame on me, which is easy enough. He's charismatic and convincing. After all, he's gunning for me, right?
OR Chad then changes the forecast to my correct ones, I saved his ass (but nobody notices because nothing went wrong) and now they think he's competent. AND he's still gunning for me.
Now what, Sun Tsu?
Almost sounds like you're defending the Chad (who caused the problem, according to the OP, whom I'm choosing to believe). He just let these fools get fooled. I don't see a problem here.
I'd argue that the "incompetent chad" character would have damaged the company no matter what (assuming he is as incompetent as OP says). Especially if he kept amassing power, and eventually got the kind of hierarchical immunity that would stop him from facing the consequences he did in this post.
/u/halfback910 just forced the company to diagnose the source of its inefficiency, as opposed to letting the company die from a thousand small cuts over time. I liken it to the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Had the U.S. not made such an immediate and grandiose display of power, japan wouldn't have surrendered until their entire country was rubble from years and years of smaller scale firebombings.
He brought up the mistakes that were being made before any consequences arose from them, and was belittled for it and laughed at by his coworkers. So he resorted to option 2, and it worked like a charm.
good story, but how does trp actually work with homosexual interactions since both are males? would be interesting to hear more about that
Uh, if you are incompetent, you cannot be an Alpha, you are just a a phony. Alphas are extremely confident, because their competence is imperically measurable and provable to the world. What you were dealing with is just a good looking loser, not Chad. You would know Chad, because your passive aggressive bullshit, the stuff that cost your loyal customers and employer money, would have blown up in your face. Chad would never allow that to happen.
Furthemore, your description of women as 'morons' is WAY off base. Women can be exceptionally smart, TRP only suggests they more likely than not, to be ruled by their emotions, and intuition. NI thing to do with intelligence.
Your understanding of Red Pill is unfortunate and incorrect. This story seems only to chuckle wryly at the Red Pill guy you have wrongly identified, and all the just because he had some delusional sense of confidence, and you didn't like that. TRP at all.
Enjoy you vodka and blow, I am sure one day you'll meet the man of your dreams. In the meantime take you misinformation, and your attempt at 'indirect aggression' that you pride yourswlf on, has failed here sir
Edit: Sorry millenial Red Pillers, of course there can be such a thing as an incompetent Alpha. Makes perfect sense.
Now, the customers thing is unfortunate. I acknowledge that. They are an unfortunate, but necessary, casualty of what I had to do to preserve my outlook. And in the long run it was better for them. What if Chad had been allowed to stay and fuck up at every turn? Far worse, indeed.
The medicine was bitter, I acknowledge, but superior to the death of the patient. This had to be done, due to no fault of my own, and so I did it.
If my employer was loyal as you insist this never would have happened. They would have taken me at my word or at least listened to my evidence, not laughed and been dismissive just because a guy with broad shoulders cracked a joke. Right? That's not what loyalty is, surely. This was their fault.
My best friend at the company is a woman and she's brilliant. You clearly didn't read the part where I said she was the only one who saw through this fucker with me and had my back. I meant everyone who bought his bullshit was a moron. Men and women included.
Check the scoreboard. I have a job, I just got a bonus, I got promoted a year ago, I'm the hero. He's unemployed and has kids and a dumb wife to feed.
Customers put the money you need on your check, furthermore you play no role in aquiring them, which is why you value their custom so little.
You generalized all the women (excluding your buddy) as morons.
You story boils down to "How I won against Red Pill, by not being Red Pill '
I agree you won, and perhaps justifiably, but that particular guy was just a good looking idiot, who displayed more indentifiable personality traits to the other males, and was more masculine and therefore attractive to women, than you. None of it TRP shit, and neither was your reaction, so you've bought nothing at all. Except your own BS
What are you talking about? Even if I can't exemplify what it means to be the alpha or whatever, I can admit that the theory is correct. And that's what I agree with here: the theory.
Not everyone can be an alpha, right?
I generalized all the people in my department, excluding my buddy, as morons. Some of them happened to be women.
You can say this about anything. The salesmen don't manage the inventory, so they don't value how much effort and sweat I put into everything being perfect. If I do my job perfectly, nobody ever notices. Because nothing goes wrong. You never notice when things go according to plan.
K, I'm just reading your story a little differently. And took exception to the poor example of a Chad. Have a great life.
I was going to say that also. Him attacking OP personally to gain the upper hand was a total beta move. OP doesn't know what an alpha is because he's too busy hanging around women and gay dudes. Not really his fault or a problem but still. He definitely has the wrong idea of what an alpha is.
So, TRP is now a pro-homosexual sub-reddit?
Never thought it was anti-gay at all. I use words that SJWs would call hateful, but no serious person is offended by them. I mean, cocksuckers gonna cocksuck, male or female, it's the ones who don't own it who are bitches.
I don't consider cockscucker an insult, either. I generally consider people who will suck my cock to be upstanding humans.
Was using it neutrally. To me, gay men are men first. It's just a question of interests. If top game were different from bottom game, guys on TRP could have something else to learn from gay dudes.
No doubt it would be uncomfortable and some guys would moralize on it, but the patterns are probably related.
Allowing homosexuals in is like willingly drinking poison. They are broken sexual deviants. being an edgy little teenager and saying cocksuck over and over doesn't do anything for your position.
Here is a link with 175 pages of everything you NEED to know about homos. http://mpcdot.com/forums/topic/6651-the-institute-for-advanced-homophobia/
What because gays are allowed to post? Is it meant to be straight only or something?
Gays are mentally ill predators. This is a place for young men to get advice, friendly strings free advice, without fear of being groomed from a deviant homosexual.
Here is a redpill that you might not get here, since the management appears to be compromised by faggots, homosexuals are mentally ill hedonistic disease carrying troublemakers, and should never be trusted, befriended or accepted.
The only good faggot is the one staying in the closet with no chance to be in a position of power to molest, drug, rape or coerce a younger male.
Here is a link with 175 pages of everything you NEED to know about homos. http://mpcdot.com/forums/topic/6651-the-institute-for-advanced-homophobia/
Wow a forum! This seems like a great place to read anecdotal evidence explaining why my friends who happen to like men, are deplorable, satanic child molesters! Oh wait no, that's fucking retarded.
Ahh, an agree and amplify. Don't ignore the hundreds of links to real scientific papers on homosexuals and their failings as humans. Never said anything about satanism, but you are broken people. Nothing but mentally ill and disease spreading hedonistic clowns with a future wearing diapers due to prolapsed anuses. It's not a lifestyle, it's a curse.
Send me a scientific paper from a reputable source backing up their 'deviance' and 'mental illness'.