335,284 posts

Men in LTRs, do yourselves a favour and don't respond to her texts/calls for 4-6 hours occasionally.

926 upvotes
by TheGameJerk on /r/TheRedPill
11 September 2017 03:43 PM UTC

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IDK what this trick is called, haven't been to this sub in a while, but if you are doing the LTR Redpill game you NEED to do this. We all know a woman will get comfortable in an LTR. She'll start putting less effort into her looks, into sex, and everything else. Maybe she'll start to think it's acceptable to show up to your place looking like shit in a hoodie and baggy pants. Maybe one day you'll get your last blowjob for 4 months. Maybe she'll start flirting with other guys cause she knows you won't say anything and she knows you won't leave her because she knows you can't get any. The female goal in an LTR is to turn you from Alpha to Beta, whether she knows it or not.
But that's the key. She """knows""" you won't leave her and she """knows""" you can't get any. You text her all the time. She knows exactly what you're doing any time she isn't with you. She is securing you when she does this. Not all of you need this advice but I'd bet anyone here who has been in an LTR knows what I'm talking about.
What you need to do is stop texting her all the time. And don't just all of a sudden stop (common noob mistake is to go full-stop with advice from Redpill), but every once and a while. You are going out with the boys for a night of drinking (if you haven't cucked yourself hard enough that she will 'allow' this, becuase there is not a single woman on Earth who enjoys when her BF/Husband goes out with the boys). Do not text her at all, do not respond. She will go nuts in her head.
But once isn't enough. You have to do this enough that she'll begin to think, consciously of subconsciously, that maybe you are out there getting better pussy than her. I've done this before, and I've told my buddies to do it, and the turnaround from deadbedroom to kink factory is usually extremely fast. They panic. You might even go to r/deadbedrooms to see some great advice on how NOT to stimulate activity in the bedroom (discuss your feelings, talk it out, have an open conversation, bla bla bla).
NO, the only way to turn that ship around is to display that you don't need her. Don't EVER text her during work, and for the most part, don't text her when you arent with her (but do let her know if you are going to be doing something that could lead to hooking up with other girls, like going for drinks after work or something).
I'll give you one example I did recently. I had arranged for after work drinks with an old female friend of mine. Like, high school old (we're both 27 now). I saw on LinkedIn that she got a job near me and thought I'd set it up. I told my GF about this and she seemingly went into shock. I've never brought up this 'Clare' girl ever before (why would I have), and all of a sudden I'm going to have a beer with her? What?? She didn't even hide it, she immediately went into interrogation mode. I didn't reply at all. Had a great time catching up with a friend from 5pm-7:30pm. Checked my phone and there were maybe 15 texts from her displaying all the ranges of emotion you might expect.
Among all her crazy texts, was a "so when are you going to go back to your condo?". I decided to only respond to that one. I said "Just leaving the bar now. I'm gonna show her my office and then split!". This wasn't a lie, my office was in the tower on top of the parking garage where we both parked, thought I may as well show her. Gave her a tour for 15 minutes and went home. I quite easily could have given her the ol' bonedog in the office if I wanted to, all the signs were there. But that's another story.
So I got home but I didn't text her back for another 90 minutes even though I had been done for a while. Why should I text her? I'm driving home and then I'm busy with whatever. When I finally texted her back she had a million angry questions that I didn't answer, but most importantly she came over on a Tuesday night all dressed up and gave me a lap dance, and had awesome sex several times. There was about a 0% chance she would have made that drive on a Tuesday otherwise.
tl;dr gotta give your GF's mind some time to wander into places she doens't want it go.


Post Information
Title Men in LTRs, do yourselves a favour and don't respond to her texts/calls for 4-6 hours occasionally.
Author TheGameJerk
Upvotes 926
Comments 201
Date 11 September 2017 03:43 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/45931
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/6zg71m/men_in_ltrs_do_yourselves_a_favour_and_dont/
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Comments

365 upvotesAvatarStinky2 years ago

In other words have a life. Do shit that doesn't involve your LTR. Have options (which you should if you're a man of value).

96 upvotesprodigy2throw2 years ago

Yup. Lots of the advice here is addressing symptoms and not undervaluing causes.

Texting back right away is a sign of neediness which is a sign that you aren't doing anything of importance in life. I doubt the top CEOs and revolutionary thinkers are texting calling and sending cute emojis to their girls every 15 minutes.

If you have goals, hobbies, and business to take care of, you'll naturally just not be available all the time which makes women want you more, up to a point

16 upvotesSaggyT2 years ago

They usually have their secretary communicate with the chick for them

6 upvotescirclhat2 years ago

Yup. Lots of the advice here is addressing symptoms and not undervaluing causes.

There is no cause other than irrational female behavior , dread game works, I wish men and women could get alone and be happy but that is a Disney fantasy

Also all the reasons you listen point to a moral basis, so we already know it's based on blue pill ideology.

How about playing video games ? Why not get blasted on molly for a few days, they all achieve the same effect?

16 upvotesprodigy2throw2 years ago

You need to stop looking at every action as Red and blue and start being a man of substance, principles and confidence

11 upvotescirclhat2 years ago

No, that is simply not true.

Texting back right away is a sign of respect if possible, you aren't busy 24/7 hours a day, and most women will know when you work or at gym.

sending cute emojis to their girls every 15 minutes.

Straw men argument, feminist tactic, you took a simple reply and upgraded it to every 15 minutes because you know your point is illogical

15 upvotessigma2722 years ago

With all due respect famalam, you are applying logic to dealing with females. That's not really how they work. What's completely rational and respectful in male-male relationships is often the worst thing to do in male-female relationships.

1 upvotescirclhat2 years ago

That is my point, no matter what you do , you will always have time to respond if you want too in most cases

7 upvotesdjthiago12 years ago

No offense buddy, but this is shit-tier advice.

2 upvoteshawkeaglejesus2 years ago

I was expecting a /s on the end of that. Are you being serious?

3 upvotescirclhat2 years ago

I think you're missing the point structuring your life in such a way as to not respond to text as a goal is retarded

1 upvotesthrowawayy08102 years ago

What if you want control over them, but using this tactic makes them think okay well if you dont want to respond to me right away either and explain why, I'll do the same?

4 upvotesrp_newdawn2 years ago

Honestly man, control shouldn't be the goal. That's only possible in girls that are at least somewhat broken. The common advice around here is that it is just your turn, and that you can't control her. Your only real acceptable tool in dating / relationships is withdrawing attention / affection. Set your boundaries and if they are violated you can punish through withdrawal, soft next, or hard next.

1 upvotesthrowawayy08102 years ago

And if they dont care that you soft next them?

7 upvotesrp_newdawn2 years ago

It's not a soft next if you care about their reaction. You should always be okay with losing her, with every decision. If you are tiptoeing around trying to not do things that might make them leave you, you have already lost.

17 upvotesTheOriginalWasBetter2 years ago

Exactly. No need to fake anything. You should be busy during the day, especially on a week day when you're at work.

However I do purposely wait to text back if they send me some needy-ass text as a way of shit testing them. For example, if we already agreed to meet up tomorrow at 6p and they're texting me asking if we're still on, then yeah I'll probably wait the entire day until I get off work to respond. I hate needy women, and people in general who can't keep their commitments and show up on time, so I try to filter out any woman who does that kind of stuff ASAP.

Other than that, if a woman is texting you then she's probably thinking about you and looking forward to when she gets to see you, and there's no benefit to ignoring her. Be busy and don't be checking your phone all the time, but we know everyone checks their phone at least once in the morning, and at lunch, and after work, so ignoring her for hours and hours repeatedly will just make you look like a loser just as much as checking your phone every 10 minutes does.

1 upvotesdjthiago12 years ago

Fake it till you make it. Everything is fair in love and war.

13 upvotesAussiecuntTRP2 years ago

Yeah it seems pretty cringy and petty to actively ignore someones texts. Have things to do and don't be addicted to checking your phone and you'll get that effect anyway.

7 upvotescirclhat2 years ago

Cringe is a male shaming tactic, if he has success which he reported what makes it cringy?

Have things to do

I work as a programmer checking the phone is both easy and necessary , but regardless women will respect me better if I don't respond right away

3 upvoteshawkeaglejesus2 years ago

What does it matter if the end result is the same?

2 upvotesSilverWolfeBlade2 years ago

There isn't much to cringe about "fake it till you make it"

1 upvotesthrowawayy08102 years ago

What if you want control over them, but using this tactic makes them think okay well if you dont want to respond to me right away either and explain why, I'll do the same?

5 upvotesdjthiago12 years ago

"What if you want control over them" The world would have achieved complete peace if this was possible.

Men are like dogs, women are like cats, you can't control cats, you can only make them come after you.

71 upvotesvandaalen2 years ago

"In a relationship you gotta stay consistently inconsistent."

- Dante Nero

572 upvotesTomasoJew2 years ago

You know there's something wrong if you have to do this on purpose. Just get a life and do other things than pleasing her. You will automaticly forget your phone and response to her hours maybe even a day later, cause you got other shit going on. You improve your life and make her more interested in you, cause you ain't a clingy cuck. Win win.

66 upvotesno_sponsor_pays_me2 years ago

Just get a life and do other things

This many times over. And it works for almost anything. Relationships, improving yourself, making friends, getting better at something or many things, new interests which lead to meeting new people and making new friends and dating new people and so on.

10 upvotesnimdeos2 years ago

Yep, just be focused on your goals

2 upvotesredpillersinparis2 years ago

That's not "anything", that's called social life. It's not going to make you e.g. pass your exams.

0 upvotescirclhat2 years ago

Relationships, improving yourself, making friends, getting better at something or many things, new interests which lead to meeting new people and making new friends and dating new people and so on.

All this takes responding to text, not responding is rude, responding is also beta.

This is the issue with blue pillers, they follow a women's advice to the letter.

Making new friends? , meeting new people? all these things would bring him back full circle?

"Hey guys if you want to do dread game naturally meet so many different people so you can't respond"

87 upvotesslumdog-millionaire2 years ago

Yea if this happens naturally it's better, but if it's not happening naturally I guess you can do it artificially.

15 upvotesGodskook2 years ago

Most men should be working 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, so its not like most of us should be in a situation where a natural setup is unavailable.

And for those who aren't working ~40 hours a week: Odds are: get a job.

16 upvotesObviouslyGenius2 years ago

Presumptuous at best... But eh

7 upvotesRPBulletDodger2 years ago

60+ hours a week at work and 5-8 hours a week at the gym.

I have very little time for the text fluff girls throw at me.

3 upvotesSaggyT2 years ago

Nice GIF you got there mate

7 upvotesLazyMagus2 years ago

When you guys mention ‛working 8 hours a day‘, are you talking about the shift hours or just the actual work without counting the break time in between? So, an 8 hour work would end up in a 9 hour shift with break in between.

11 upvotesPeter_B_Long2 years ago

I agree with this. I read on askTRP to wait at least 10 minutes before replying to a woman's text. Instead of focusing more on my work / gym / life / etc. I would focus on the time and wait for those 10 minutes to pass by to make the reply that I had planned to make a few seconds after receiving her text. Then wait an hour or longer for her to reply back.

I then learned that instead of appearing busy, try actually being busy. Busy with work, busy at the gym, busy with your friends, busy fucking a chick all night, etc.

2 upvotescirclhat2 years ago

Then when she text you when you aren't busy? This is the type of irrational logic I would expect from a blue piller

1 upvotesPeter_B_Long2 years ago

I don't understand your question.

25 upvotesTRPTosser2 years ago

You have to break the habit of contacting your LTR. It feels good to talk to her, so you're on a feedback loop of chatting, feeling good, it's almost an addiction.

It's really damn difficult to break an addiction, you need to practice, and remind yourself why you're doing it.

OP's post is really helpful for new users.

13 upvotesSonic3242 years ago

It really is an addiction if you look into the science behind it. Loving someone and getting that back releases those feel-good hormones in you brain called oxytocin. Getting this constant boost of oxy every time you might chat with her or text builds up a habit pattern your brain likes.

17 upvotesTRPTosser2 years ago

I think that's missing from a lot of this subreddit. We get told what we should be doing, but not the why. The why is just as important.

14 upvotesSonic3242 years ago

Things actually makes a lot more sense why the TRP works if you just understood basic brain chemistry and how it affects us in interpersonal relationships. If only it were easy to get people to grasp the concept of chemicals in your brain dictating every fucking thing you think/feel/want/do in life.

12 upvotesTheSelfGoverned2 years ago

Here is a hit of dopamine from a comment reply. On the house.

7 upvotesSonic3242 years ago

Just what I needed. Thanks bartender.

5 upvotesLontar472 years ago

A lot of TRP is basic avoidance of co-dependency and not deriving all of your self-worth from another person a.k.a. just being healthy and mature about things.

16 upvotesRian_Stone2 years ago

Not wrong, because it works.

Deficient, becuase you're doing it in place of actual SMV

9 upvotesSkorchZang2 years ago

Yeah there's something wrong. For example, you're recovering from a lifetime of blue pill indoctrination.

It's not a happy place to be, and you just are not that awesome. You're a level 1 faggot just starting out, so yes you will damn well end up having to fake things like this some of the time.

6 upvoteskupakuma2 years ago

Hey some of us don't have a life... sobs

3 upvotesForcetobereckonedwit2 years ago

And some of us are the boss, and can respond at any time. A good reminder to me at this time. Thanks OP

4 upvotescirclhat2 years ago

Improving life has nothing to do with women , I know people who work 10 hour days and can respond to a text, and I know people without a job who take forever.

It's considered common courtesy to respond when you can, however women aren't exactly rational , so this works.

Responding to a text takes 10 seconds, getting a life won't make a change

5 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Please bitch

It's called dread game and sometimes a man can play it up the way a women can wear mascara or wear a low cut blouse. Yes we know what she is doing and yes we still like it.

This comment of yours is the equivalent of a hambeast railing against hotties who try to maintain and flash their femininity

Don't be an autist

1 upvotesiBchyllen2473652 years ago

Pretty much what I came here to say... well said.

1 upvotesJakarrSlamson2 years ago

Sometimes even with alot going on I still respond to girls. I'm the type to respond quickly to anyone. Ignoring all texts could also be ignoring invitations from friends to do cool shit or family emergencies. My advice is to have one app designated for plates and potential plates. I use snapchat for this and make sure to disable notifications when I'm busy. Posting cool shit you do and jokes on your story also works as good dread game. Leaving a girls message unread and then letting her see your story at the club makes it seem like you forgot about her, which builds attraction.

1 upvotesshredzro2 years ago

I just commented something similar. Good post! Wish I read this first lol

0 upvotescooperpl2 years ago

Exactly. Doing this on purpose and meanwhile doing nothing substantial sounds to me like a bitch move. If a woman will somehow discover that you did this on purpose and/or did nothing in between she'll just see you as somebody who's really insecure. Be kind and respond when possible, the key is to have a life so interesting and purposeful that it's just impossible sometimes.

1 upvotesxenigala2 years ago

If you do this right the woman will like it because it will turn her on. I am a woman myself.

1 upvotescooperpl2 years ago

Yes, I know it worked from my last LTR, just don't overdo it to compensate for lack of game - I think you would have better tingles if the guy was just doing some important shit instead of just laying around.

126 upvotesMattyAnon2 years ago

Always Run Dread

Always means "at all times, especially with a LTR".

Commitment kills attraction. Remove some of the commitment, remove some of the comfort, and the shit tests.... and attraction spike again.

Guys.... we know this about women. This is how they are. Women are designed to avoid sex with family members. Don't act like her brother.

59 upvotesUrsusG2 years ago

Women are designed to avoid sex with family members. Don't act like her brother.

This should be up on some landmark in big golden letters.

8 upvotesTommy_4072 years ago

"Women are designed to avoid sex with family members". This was finally some comic relief that is too often rare on the red pill

Never had a problem with LTRs older brother or anyone being a white knight.

4 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Dread is the best way to have a healthy relationship where both parties are happy. Thought about it over and over again.

Source: am married.

92 upvotesRian_Stone2 years ago

By the time you've decided to settle down with a girl, you won't be able to fake it any more. She sees you when you're at your worst, and your best.

Better plan, be busy and productive in your life, so that you don't answer everything right away. Doing it to keep her guessing is a byproduct, not the goal IMO

35 upvotesMentORPHEUS2 years ago

I second this. Actually BE too busy to text right back some of the time.

A young plate of mine once laughingly told me about some orbiter who would wait EXACTLY the same interval to text her back, every time. You could set your watch by it, and she picked up on the pattern very quickly.

All of this ties in to the intermittent reinforcement pattern, which casinos and TV programmers exploit ruthlessly.

4 upvotesrp_newdawn2 years ago

That right there is the beauty of a natural busy productive life vs somebody trying to fake it. The randomness of the time interval in intermittent reinforcement is much stronger and difficult to replicate unless you are actually doing big things and she knows it.

2 upvotescirclhat2 years ago

Better plan, be busy and productive in your life,

Because women only date busy productive men?

Doing it to keep her guessing is a byproduct

By product? So If I want to learn guitar I should live a productive life and magically my fingers on the frets will began to move fast as a by product?

I think Blue pillers like yourself should take a few moments to think about what you write and post.

You're twisted TRP terminology to fit an blue pill ideology , someone focusing on women isn't productive but focusing on everything else is

3 upvotesRian_Stone2 years ago

Because high value men have shit to do. Women tend to be attractive to high value men, and when your time is at a premium, you don't just give away your gifts, unless she's worth your time.

AKA, pay to play.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/4ekpvg/endorsed_contributors_respect_the_tag/

http://a.trp.red/h

32 upvotesjarrai80002 years ago

The best advice I ever got was from my friends step dad: Be nice 80% of the time, fight and piss her off about 20% of the time.

To this day they are still together, and not married.

So far, been working for me as well.

9 upvotesdjthiago12 years ago

Correction: Be nice as often as you can, but have the backbone/guts to say the word NO.

48 upvotescircleofshit6662 years ago

Can confirm. Did this with the GF yesterday. She didn't want to come over, but wanted to talk on the phone. Nope. I'm going to a movie. Later. Then nothing. She got her ass over to my house and crawled into bed later that evening. First question, who did you go to the movie with? lol...

29 upvotesTamazin_2 years ago

"A Friend" would be the best answer, especially over text and then you're busy watching the movie to reply. She'll go nuts.

6 upvotesStrongAffordance2 years ago

What's the right answer to "who"? Just something vague?

3 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Yeah I did the same, asked her if she wanted to come over, she said she was busy with no explanation, went straight out for a night with the boys

23 upvotesTRPmc1172 years ago

I did this with my ex sometimes on accident, like once when I was at a work lunch and had no service. She had a meltdown that I wasn't paying enough attention to her, because she knew my phone was always on me and I was "purposely ignoring her". I wasn't, I honestly didn't have service.

We're not together anymore.

36 upvotesozaku72 years ago

Just don't overkill it. Show loyalty, but show you have options aswell. If she doesn't keep herself on her end of the agreement, you know where to find a better one.

55 upvotesMattyAnon2 years ago

You have to choose between loyalty and attraction.

If you're loyal, she will tire of sex with you, because loyalty is commitment and commitment is the passion killer.

Loyalty is how betas sell themselves. "Date me, I'll treat you well and never leave you and never cheat!".

Chad doesn't even pretend he's going to be loyal, and she knows better than to ask for it.

Loyalty is earned and loyalty is completely conditional on her behaviour. Which sounds a lot like "not very loyal at all", and that's how you should be.

18 upvotesdontbedenied2 years ago

Ugh...I learned this one the hard way.

7 upvotesozaku72 years ago

"I'm as loyal as you treat me well." The major mistake in society, or atleast what men make, is that they rather define the relationship as a label and keep behaving according to the label, not according to the reality of how the woman is towards them over the course of a time. It's something that I made very clear recently with plates. Call it whatever you like, all that matters to me is that you treat me well and all will be well. If there is a week or 2 where she wanders off her good girl path I will just wander off to look for another.

5 upvotesMattyAnon2 years ago

is that they rather define the relationship as a label and keep behaving according to the label

Yeah... we're trained to do this, and shamed for the alternative.

If you have lower status than women, you tend to listen to them. And if we listen to them (or care about their opinions), we end up doing what they want. Do this too much and you can end up believing that you should die to protect a "relationship", no matter how shitty it is.

4 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyVaijhhPMQ

but I dont want to do thaaaat...

Fucking women, man... I hate that you're right.

-1 upvotescesarfd2 years ago

You have to choose between loyalty and attraction.

Loyalty is how betas sell themselves. "Date me, I'll treat you well and never leave you and never cheat!".

Loyalty and fidelity are not the same thing. As a man, you can be loyal to your LTR (love only her) but fuck other women on the side. In fact, no man should have only one sexual partner, ever.

There is no choice to be made.

29 upvotesjb_trp2 years ago

Dread game all comes down to this: Demonstrating real value. In order to do that, you need to have actual real SMV. Get in great shape (lift), fix your diet as well. Have interesting hobbies and activities that keep you busy. Fix your wardrobe so you look good (buy new underwear!). Be charming and interesting. Just... Whatever works for you.

Then, go out and live life. You don't have to purposefully not text your LTR for 6 hours if you're out rock climbing, or riding bikes, or skiing, or whatever during a weekend. Bonus points if you're great at these activities and they put you around other women as well. If you have good guy friends, and you all go out for drinks, you shouldn't be texting her during that time. Set boundaries and put your foot down if the girl pouts that you're "doing things without her." This is another way to show real value.

Dread game, if you don't have decent SMV, is pathetic and laughable and won't work--it's just a PUA parlor trick. But if you have real value, it works every time, and it doesn't necessarily have to be a negative thing. Example: I had an LTR a few years ago, and we went out to coffee. I was being funny and charming to both my LTR and the barista... And when I went to the restroom the barista told my LTR "how lucky she was to be dating me." Boom, light dread, but in a good way.

But it all comes down to value.

9 upvotesDead__Hand2 years ago

Dread game seems to work regardless of actual SMV, and can be useful as a man is upping his SMV.

11 upvotesusedsparingly2 years ago

I have to consciously do this. The worst part about it is that we work together and my job really just requires me to monitor peoples safety so I have a load of free time. If I don't answer she knows I'm doing it intentionally, thus negating it's effectiveness.

u/TomasoJew is right. If you have to consciously do this, you're life isnt busy enough. And if it is busy, it better be with shit that's raising your SMV.

5 upvotesdherik2 years ago

My day job is basically I'm a human follow up machine. So it's physically hard for me to do this. But I force myself at least a couple times a week with my gf. I do it randomly though. So it doesn't lose it's effectiveness.

10 upvotesshredzro2 years ago

Agreed.

I sometimes forget to text back. I used to be the guy that always did I mean come on I was 18 when I got my first touch screen phone! Shits exciting!

OP made valid points however keep yourself busy. I don't text back and I forget sometimes too because I am busy. Progress and keep progressing. They don't need a response right away, ever. Sooner or later you will get to the point where you will legitimately only text her a few times a day because you're keeping busy and they know. I know when a girl plays this game as well.

Think about it. You get a new girls number and she texts you a few times a day. Then y'all get serious and the texts flow constantly. Nothing changed in her life? They. Play. This. Game. Too. If I can point it out then these women sure af can. I actually know a girl that said "this guy purposely waits 1 hour to text back." Lmfao. So actually get busy.

I'm not the red pill guy when it comes to women. I'm about progression. This is a great way to progress.

10 upvotestake1fortheteam2 years ago

I do this and it seems to work pretty well

1 upvotesanon352012 years ago

Just because it works doesn't make it right. It's a weapon to be used for good or evil. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_triad

The reason the majority of murders are in the family is because of the volumes of words hidden between the words of your casual comment.

11 upvotesanusbleach111112 years ago

wew lad

8 upvotesBambam602 years ago

What in the flying fuck are you talking about, Morpheus?

3 upvotessegorisk2 years ago

This is the point I raise one eyebrow while he's not looking and signal we should find another pub.

1 upvotesVincent_Marcus2 years ago

The only people who care about what's right are cucks.

1 upvotesanon352012 years ago

oookay morty, lol. https://youtu.be/jqBEzi5NKEs?t=45s

Your tough-as-nails ideology is all fun and games until you get what you give, and the people you care about leave for work and vanish, and when you call the police and they advise you to drop it, citing: "the only people who care about what's right are cucks".

It's at that moment you realize you fucked up.

1 upvotesVincent_Marcus2 years ago

Nah. I gave more than enough playing by the rules. The rules are made by people who want to take advantage of you. I hope someday you realize that, because I empathize with sheep like you because I was one for years.

If you're such a pure heart why don't you give everything you own to the poor? That'll be the moment you realize you fucked up, because nobody is going to help you when you're down.

1 upvotesanon352012 years ago

Without "those rules" that people play by, in 2017 we would still be chucking spears at each other in the woods in competition over the fruit tree and killing each other in combat for access to females.

Civilizations that didn't have "those rules" were swiftly conquered and eaten by civilizations that did have "those rules". Go talk to the Mexican mafias like MS-13, Los Zetas, other organized crime gangs all over the world, each one of those groups are the living manifestation of your idea. The members pay a very heavy price for their choices and I think most would agree that civilization is harmed by their existence, and their own station in life is not really lifted up past what a peaceful person would.

I think I realize it more deeply than you do. You're banging in a computer and over miracles of technology that you nor your genetic line (up through the last 3000 years) had any hand in contributing to, and yet here you are, everything you have was given to you by others, and you have the gall to say nobody helps you.

I think you have it exactly backwards. People "helping you" when "you're down" is the only reason you have any success at all. Name one thing you've done in the last year that wasn't basically handed to you on a silver platter. House, Computer, Car, Dinner. I think you would be hard pressed to name one thing that you could have possibly hoped to earn or make yourself.

I think you're confusing "being taken advantage of in zero sum games by deceiving opponents" with "playing by the rules is always a recipe for failure". "Playing by the rules" is what makes cheese burgers possible, even though no single human on earth could ever hope to be smart enough to create their own 99 cent burger from scratch.

1 upvotesVincent_Marcus2 years ago

The reason for modern wealth is technological advancement; not because people cared about the common good. Selfishness runs the world and the productivity you speak of is a result of slavery. People only play by the rules when the powerful force them and modern day slaves only are given cars and computers because the tech ups productivity in an economical fashion.

1 upvotesVincent_Marcus2 years ago

And the main reason the wealthy and powerful care about the future of humanity is because they see their children as mini versions of themselves.

For the many, many men who are not granted the honor of carrying our DNA to the next generation we have no reason to care about humanity. Why should we when society does not see us as human enough to declare our DNA valuable?

1 upvoteszreticulan2 years ago

What's the point of your LTR, sex? Is it even worth it if you have to trick her into it? As long as you are so dependent on a woman in your life, that's her who wins anyway. You are under her control and that's why your subconscious mind wants to prove it wrong and rebel. You try to get from her what's not there but why isn't it there in the first place? Do you actually get what you want when you manipulate and trick her into submission and great sex?

2 upvotesOpyDopey2 years ago

Umm he's not 'tricking' anybody. He's making her long for a reply. Try it man, she'll be swooning before you know it.

For example, I made plans to meet up with a girl on Saturday. I'm taking at least all of tomorrow off, maybe Thursday too, just to enforce that texting isn't where she 'gets' me. If she wants meaningful conversation or to be stimulated it's going to be in person. She'll get the hint that if she wants something, ie. Sex, it won't come from texting but making plans THROUGH texting. Use it as a tool not as a means of substantial communication. Once you make this apparent you don't even have to pretend to be busy it's just implied. You'll thank me later.

5 upvotesKinkonthebrain2 years ago

TL;DR = Absense makes the heart grow fonder

shrug

13 upvotesvandelayarchitect2 years ago

I can attest to this. Been with a girl who has a small vagina, so sex was awful. She got comfortable and we went a long period of time with nothing. I start being distant and she freaks and is begging to give me bjs. I suggest we arent sexually compatible and now shes going to a physical therapist for small vagina.

4 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Had almost this exact same scenario with the small vagina. She's like 5'2 & I'm 6'1 the sex was incompatible. I get distant then she gets drastic & begs me to keep trying with her.

12 upvotesmactakeda2 years ago

I genuinely wonder what people are doing with their lives when this isn't normal behaviour. Do you never make long drives? Have a job where you're too busy to look at your phones? Go to sleep? Catch a flight? Go abroad and not have signal?

I've had weeks where I've not spoken to my wife because she knows I can't.

18 upvotessquishles2 years ago

I think there's a generation gap between early 20's-teens and late 20's and older right now on this.

Older remembers when text communication meant fuck it I'll respond some time within the next week, maybe, if I feel like it. Younger's grown up with ringing on text and read receipts training them to be neurotic about it. Older didn't even have a cell phone until middle-highschool or until you where already an adult.

5 upvotesjambr0sia2 years ago

This advice makes sense for some people.... but it is ridiculous to assume that all women are out to fuck over men and strip them of their masculinity. Sometimes relationships actually are simple mutual benefit.

7 upvotesUrsusG2 years ago

This is also why Rollo advises against living in with your LTR unless you're planning to marry her within 6 months*.

When you're living together, it's much harder to either feign being busy or actually be busy outside her radar.

*To that I'd add my own stipulation: don't plan on marrying her unless you're planning to get her pregnant within a year.

9 upvotesPhoenixtorment2 years ago

What has marrying got to do with getting kids?

Just don't marry, simple, there is nothing in it for men. It's purely for women.

4 upvotesmountainbiker1782 years ago

Thanks for the reminder, mate.

13 upvotescircleofshit6662 years ago

BTW, I wouldn't tolerate 15 unanswered "crazy" texts if i was out with a friend for a couple hours. Thats a hard next.

11 upvotesPhilhelm2 years ago

Can confirm. My wife texted me about a million times saying that the kids were in the hospital and begging me to call her, but I ghosted the fuck out. I got a blowjob the very next day.

3 upvotesspinalmemes2 years ago

I already do this with out even attempting to

3 upvotesmandalashadow2 years ago

If it were me, I would start considering a break up now.

3 upvotespullupsNpushups2 years ago

I apply this naturally because I'm a busy guy. I'd totally text her because I'd make some time, but from my experience as both the aggregator and receiver of too many texts (on separate occasions), I've realized that less texts is better as a personal truth. I'll see how this goes for a girl whom I recently met and won't see for another two weeks. We really don't know anything about each other, so I'm counting on the the element of mystery to make our first date that much better.

3 upvotesdjthiago12 years ago

Texting is poison, it kills mistery and challenge. Avoid it as much as possible, don't just "not respond for 4/6 hours" try not texting for a few DAYS.

5 upvotespassmethebleachpls2 years ago

gotta love the physiological mind games this subreddit teaches

8 upvotesbrideboy2 years ago

How about you stop dating insecure women and stop being insecure enough to allow this behavior into your life.

This cycle can only continue as long as us guys feed into it.

Idiots. And to my understanding, if you are afraid to leave your partner it is no longer a relationship, it is a dependency. Stop depending on your girlfriend and make a seperate life from her.

Jesus.

2 upvotesimn0tg00d2 years ago

Instead of pretending to be busy for 4 to 6 hours, how about you keep lifting? I'm sure your girl has friends, if you keep them attracted to you, your girl will stay attracted too. Dread game OP.

2 upvotesnotme19752 years ago

I'm not remotely alfa, but I regulary take this much time to return messages from anyone. If you are living your life fully, and committing to your work as needed, I think this should happen automatically.

2 upvotesRylanBlackwood2 years ago

This is all right but you probably won't want to go as far as your gf literally anxious about you sleeping with other people. This leads to total paranoia to the point where your gf won't be able to trust you anymore.It will probably just cause stress and chaos which isn't what skilful dread game is all about. Creating competition anxiety should be a delicate process. She should be thinking that you could sleep with other people, not that you actually are.

2 upvotesMaelshevek2 years ago

Married, but not a kept man. Basically stay casual and watch for claws.

Include her in your life, but keep space. It's going to make her want you more.

It's also going to keep you sane. People weren't meant to be around the same person all the time. It's crazy. Space makes you want to be close again, but you always need room to breathe. I remember one couple that could only be together on weekends.

Best of both worlds, imo.

2 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

so you gotta basically pretend to fuck another girl just to get your girlfriend to fuck you good? man, just break up for god sake.

3 upvotesConradooo2 years ago

Or be less insecure, manage your relationship on its strengths rather than tricking women into thinking they like you more than they do, then acting like all women are scum when she realises how she actually feels and leaves you/cucks you.

1 upvoteshodltaco2 years ago

Occasionally? No way. It's all about managing expectations. I'll go 6-8 hours easy and then always avoid texting back after a certain time. If it's after 7:00 I will not text back even if the phone is 2 inches from me. The learned expectation is that I am simply unavailable during certain times for undisclosed reasons. This is helpful for other times when I really don't want to be on the phone. It actually creates a comfort level for her because she KNOWS when and when she cannot get ahold of me.

5 upvotesillusive_one2 years ago

Or wen she can have bobby over

3 upvotesWheysteve2 years ago

Great post but I'd like to hear the story about the "ol'bonedog" sometime

2 upvotesillusive_one2 years ago

😂😂😂 at that point i new this was fake

9 upvotesred-sfpplus2 years ago

Meh, this is common advice here for newbies starting out. When you have game, frame and high SMV, texting can be for more than just logistics.

The current game I play with my wife is that if I can respond to her with less than 5 words, I will use an applicable emoji to express what I am trying to say. Its a fun game that lets her hamster fill in the blanks.

But this is pretty advanced, and I know how to game and play with my wife via text, so it works for me, when it will likely not work for other guys.

1 upvotesRandEvola2 years ago

I recently had a semi LTR (as in definitely LT but easy on the R) over. On her way out I remembered she had laundry in my dryer, so I grabbed her panties and said "don't you want this?"

She replied "some other girl's underwear? No, I'm good." Whoops.

Next day she came over to spontaneously cook me dinner and although she's always dtf, she wanted it extra bad that night.

1 upvotesBlackFire682 years ago

I don't believe that you need to create a sense of distrust or fear in your partner in order for them to act right.

3 upvotesdjthiago12 years ago

It's not about distrust or fear, it's about the chase, the mistery, the challenge. Women LOVE to chase.

3 upvotesjuliusstreicher2 years ago

Yep. I've heard an expression: "If a woman doesn't get drama in her life from where she should, then she'll get it from where she shouldn't."

2 upvotesdjthiago12 years ago

She can get drama from her girlfriends, when you're together with a girl the sole objective should be FUN.

1 upvotesJuan-San2 years ago

It also goes the other way around. "Happy wife happy life" means if your wife isn't satisfied with you, you're gonna have hell.

2 upvotesDamnNearRectum2 years ago

This is stupidly good advice. I broke up with a girl because I left my phone and left for work (not a lie, I left it) and came home to 50+ texts and 9 voicemails. If they were just silly ramblings, that's one thing and I don't mind that but they got crazier and crazier. She was the worst.

2 upvotestableman2 years ago

My girl should be grateful if I remember to text her at all.

2 upvotesCum_on_doorknob2 years ago

If my phone buzzes, I look at it. If it's something that needs a response, I respond immediately. That's how I roll. Fuck slow responders.

1 upvotesAPSTNDPhy2 years ago

Umm I do this all the time... Completely unintentional. Because yknow I'm busy.

1 upvotesredpillersinparis2 years ago

A lap dance? Did she use to be a stripper? I feel like you need some skill to do that

1 upvoteswaking-life2 years ago

Well, shit. Now you gotta drop the other story!

P.S. Yes to this whole post. Obviously. Nice one.

1 upvoteshereforsexaintlove2 years ago

Noob question here, I am doing this right now, but how do I handle with the feeling that she is texting other guys and talking to other guys? Should I tell I don't like her texting other guys all the time?

5 upvotesdjthiago12 years ago

Sure, but you should say it in person, preferrably while crying on her shoulder, cause i get the feeling you're pretty insecure, controlling and jelly.

If she's your LTR and she's texting other dudes (assuming it isn't about school or work) you should just dump her. Women don't change, they only get worse.

1 upvoteshopefullythathelps2 years ago

So hold on a second. What do you do if she simply retaliates with the same? You go to a movie with your friends? She has a girls' night out.

1 upvotestabesla2 years ago

How about something like 'my GF doesn't go to girls' night outs'. And then, either she doesn't go or your relationship is over. You have the abundance mentality, so it's not a big deal for you, or it is? ;)

1 upvoteshopefullythathelps2 years ago

That's possible. But then you have to explicitly communicate that the relationship is not "equal". I get to go out, but you don't. It's certainly possible to demand this up front, but I am unclear if this is really what is being advocated. Tactically, it would be preferable to keep things under control without mentioning such things.

1 upvotesTrooper_18682 years ago

Thats wrong tho. She should know the consequences if something happens on a night out, but I dont think you should full out say no you can't do this or that. I think it would show you care too much.

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Solid advice I give to all my friends. I think the proper term for it is dread game, but it is excellent advice. Another good one is the 2:1 ratio. For every 2 texts/actions/whatever she sends your way, your reply with 1

1 upvotesolaf_from_norweden2 years ago

well, also sounds like you need to upgrade your girlfriend mate. lol

1 upvotesTrooper_18682 years ago

I made popcorn. I want that other story DANNGIT!!

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Jeez, 4-6 hours a day? That should be the accumulated time texting her for a month.

I'm in college & workout most times I won't even respond unless it's the weekend.

7 upvotesTheGameJerk [OP]2 years ago

This is for LTRs not flings lol. If you can swing a legitimate relationship texting only once or twice a week, good on ya, you've found a girl who will be a complete doormat and wallflower for life. There is give and take involved once you leave the nomad life.

1 upvotesokdatapad2 years ago

lmao all you guys are fucking stupid and pathetic, women are better than any of you

1 upvotesNotACEOofAMajorBank2 years ago

People are garbage. That's the perfectly good reason why I can't stand any of you.

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Thank you for your insights.

1 upvotesbolupua2 years ago

I do it from time to time. How I going to fuck other girls if not.

1 upvotesholographical2 years ago

Here is how I framed it in my own situation. I'm in an LTR where we live together. Neither of us want marriage, and neither of us want children - this was established from day 1. We both have our own independent creative pursuits of our own freedom, fulfillment and happiness.

My partner knows when I'm at work, I'm at work and I won't respond to texts until I'm on a break, lunch, or step away from my computer (I work in banking operations and am very busy).

Another thing I required as part of a relationship was that I get 3 days of the week to myself where no questions asked I get to do whatever I want to do with my time (2 weekdays and 1 weekend day). If I want to game all day, I game all day. If I want to go ride motorcycles all day, I do that. If I want to go out with my work mates that night I do that. No questions. 1 of those days is a weekend (because I need a full day to myself for my own mental health).

I then have the rest of the 4 days to invest in the relationship, not in my LTR partner herself, but in the relationship itself.

I think that's the key as to how this has worked so well for us both. We're 3 years in without any major issues, we're both on the same page with finances, retiring early, great careers, and creative past time pursuits (hers is dance and mine is music - keys/synths/piano).

1 upvotesWhoWasBlowjob2 years ago

What about me? I get pussy easily and she knows this, I cheated on her before and she's legit a good girl, partner count if 2 including me, only her previous beta boy LTR that begged for her back. Also she has way more money then me, (both young but she has inheritance, drives a BMW and owns 3 horses) she's 19.

She says my drinking makes me an alcoholic because I get hammered, I'm 24, drink twice a week tops and don't plan on doing that forever. I've been doing a lot of push, somewhat accidentally. Do I continue to drink whenever I want or do I reign it in a bit.

Also, what do you say when she wants to catch up with an old guy friend from highschool the same way you did? Or go to the bar solo the same way you did? She's not a feminist, but also is stubborn, if I can do it she can too, how do you react to this when the girl is genuinely good?

3 upvoteshatefulreason2 years ago

horses you say ? waiting for a field report or maybe a rant in a year or two :)

3 upvotesiguy222 years ago

She tells you 2 previous partners but what's her real count brah? Don't be stoopid

6 upvotesTheGameJerk [OP]2 years ago

She will move on from you before you even know it if you arent careful. Shes not special.

1 upvotesWhoWasBlowjob2 years ago

Oh I know, I have a big dick and fuck well, also nice to look at, keeps it going for now.

3 upvotesnopiller2 years ago

Dude, go back to play LoL and stop dreaming about your dream girl

1 upvotesxenigala2 years ago

She's 19 and drives a BMW (from daddy I assume), raised as a "good girl"? And what are you doing besides getting drunk twice a week? Sounds like you are her "bad boy". See the Vice guide to dating rich girls: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/ppqznv/the-vice-guide-to-dating-rich-girls

Regarding getting drunk, what are you getting out of it? Would you still like to hang with your friends if you were sober? What is going to happen to your drunk friends in 10 years? Try to hang out with successful people.

1 upvotesxenigala2 years ago

She's 19 and drives a BMW (from daddy I assume), raised as a "good girl"? And what are you doing besides getting drunk twice a week? Sounds like you are her "bad boy". See the Vice guide to dating rich girls: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/ppqznv/the-vice-guide-to-dating-rich-girls

Regarding getting drunk, what are you getting out of it? Would you still like to hang with your friends if you were sober? What is going to happen to your drunk friends in 10 years? Try to hang out with successful people.

1 upvotesBossdonut2 years ago

Text everyone back immediately always. When I text soneone, I need information. Not in 5 minutes or tomorrow, RIGHT FUCKIN NOW. I expect the same courtesy to be a 2 way street.

You have one of humanities greatest technological marvels in the palm of your hand, and it was expensive too. Fucking use it, you inefficient mongrels.

15 upvotescircleofshit6662 years ago

This is one of the great fallacies of the Millennial mindset. Whether is a girl or a customer or a friend, one way to demonstrate value is valuing your OWN time. You are not subject to the whims and desires of everyone else 24/7. If you are, you become everyone else's bitch.

-14 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

You sound like the kind of guy who drives 50 in the left lane. INEFFICIENT

10 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

you sound retarded tbh mate.

-12 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

I sound efficient. Explain to me why it takes you 10 minutes to use a self checkout for 3 items, you mouthbreather.

5 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

gg anusbreather.

go solve some IQ tests to deal with your depression.

1 upvotesBossdonut2 years ago

Another rekt shillary voter. 2ez.

1 upvotescircleofshit6662 years ago

Bullshit. Getting your life put on pause constantly slows you down, and now you have to reply to everyone immediately whenever they text you? You're not the boss, you're the gopher. Have fun with your constant pleasing everyone.

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Thanks for being the superglue causing the wheels of industry to stop spinning and hindering progression with your horrific laziness.

There is no point to you. If you have to "put your life on pause" to send a 5 word text that takes no more than 2 seconds then you are among the hordes of room temperature IQ failures I would have marched out into the ocean.

14 upvotesOmnibrad2 years ago

So when you're busy with work, and some random whore texts you about your favorite color, you tell your customers to hold on a second while you share information immediately?

Get a life.

-8 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

It's not gender specific. And yes tell them to hold their tits for a minute. If they really want whatever bullshit you're selling, they'll wait.

Oh and if by customers you mean people waiting to be served their coffee I'd recommend getting a real job.

1 upvoteskvazau2 years ago

Text messaging is an asynchronous polling mechanism. It's intentionally non-immediate. Calling would be more urgent.

2 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Calling is a waste of time when I need a 3 word ( or less) answer or a string of numbers, address, code, etc.

3 upvotessquishles2 years ago

nothing 3 words or less that doesn't involve the words hospital or death is worth the immediate interruption, like from anything you could be straight watching tv scratching your nuts and it wouldn't be worth it.

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

If you say let's head to the bar and hang out and I respond what bar, you're telling me you'll be too busy scratching your nuts for an hour to give me a name or address?

5 upvotesOneInAZillion2 years ago

Text everyone back immediately always. When I text soneone, I need information. Not in 5 minutes or tomorrow, RIGHT FUCKIN NOW. I expect the same courtesy to be a 2 way street.

You have one of humanities greatest technological marvels in the palm of your hand, and it was expensive too. Fucking use it, you inefficient mongrels.

Can't tell if you're a troll or just an idiot. Either way, gtfo.

It's not gender specific. And yes tell them to hold their tits for a minute. If they really want whatever bullshit you're selling, they'll wait.

Lol @ trying to save a little face by trying to look a modecum of non-needy with that phrase

Oh and if by customers you mean people waiting to be served their coffee I'd recommend getting a real job.

Look out, we've got a badass over here.

Someone ban this moron.

0 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

What's the matter. The reality check ruining your little fantasy world? Wouldn't be having this conversation if you could decide what you wanted BEFORE you got to the cashier, and not after a few oh uhm I uhhhhsss, you putz. But sure, whine for the admins like every other good little reddit snowflake does.

Bunch of brain dead morons in here.

2 upvotesOneInAZillion2 years ago

Really appreciate you replying so I can block you. Thx.

3 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Nobody has possession of my time. Nobody demands my time when they want it. If I give you my time it happens on my terms. If you demand my time at a moments notice then enjoy the blocked number and go bother someone else with your pesky texts.

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

I've heard speedbumps say similar things.

3 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Maybe when (if) you graduate high school you'll understand what I'm trying to say.

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

I'm 30 and an engineer. I need information when I need it, not when you feel privy to giving it. Your time is canceled when it impedes my time. Understand THAT.

5 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Lol don't care about your needs. Unless you are paying me money, I couldn't give two shits about what you want and when you want it.

3 upvoteswheresMYsteakAt2 years ago

I can picture some girl sitting around her friends and /u/bossdonut send his trademark "?????" Or "hello?" Texts to her and her just laughing about it to her friends as she sets the phone back down on the table.

0 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Because you are an inefficient waste of oxygen.

1 upvotessegorisk2 years ago

Holy crap you got absolutely destroyed by the first response.

Get your head out your phone you social retard. Ahahahha

If you had the ability to think outside of the moment you would realize you barely make any distance hugging the bumper of the car ahead, stressing yourself out raging at the guy ahead of you is what will kill you quicker

When you crash and burn what happens then.. ?

you have 2 lanes closed off and a 3 hour traffic. you have a arguement with the guy you're rushing at self service which delays you longer.

Efficiency. ;)

0 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Destroyed eh? Another 22 year old moron who doesn't know anything. Sad.

2 upvotessegorisk2 years ago

That's a very precise number and an insult directed at someone's age..? Very wise. Haha

0 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Only a young little pipsqueak would say destroyed. Too many clickbait articles you've been reading. Just wait til you see what happens next! (Spoiler alert: segorisk will post something stupid.)

2 upvotessegorisk2 years ago

My natural response is to re-correct your path by sharing some wisdom that reflects on my own experience, so that you can re-evaluate your ways on your own accord. We wouldn't want to damage you ego now.. would we?

But in your case everything that I would say would become fuel for an angry fire that well out of the control of a random Redditor who is non-combustible.

Better to let you burn yourself out and hope you don't DESTROY too much of this beautiful forest on your way!

Cheer up....old man? Lol ciao x

0 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Congratulations. Not even 10 am yet and already, I've found it. The dumbest shit posted today.

0 upvotesShekelBanker2 years ago

Chateau Heartise has a few good writings on this, such as this and this

1 upvotessegorisk2 years ago

I loved the first one, I literally watched the first matrix film followed by joining this sub within 1 hour..

So right now I'm ready to join tinder and dodge some bullets. Lol

0 upvotesShadyDude9952 years ago

Pretty unbiased, original, and useful. Thanks for the interesting read!

0 upvotesrmtusr2 years ago

I’m a casual browser, in a LTR and I follow many of the RP tenants. I’ve done this since for a long time.

0 upvotesCarnivOre932 years ago

No matter what I do my ltr gobbles up my meat like a popsicle on a summer day. It's to the point where I'd rather wear my shirt around the my own dwelling sometimes bc when I take my shirt off she's on me like white on rice.

0 upvotesCarnivOre932 years ago

No matter what I do my ltr gobbles up my meat like a popsicle on a summer day. It's to the point where I'd rather wear my shirt around the my own dwelling sometimes bc when I take my shirt off she's on me like white on rice.

-1 upvoteslucasmcn962 years ago

First post I've read found after watching red pill documentary, tall know way to much but I plan to learn so I can be a "man of value"





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