Sometimes you will find yourself in social situations with women (and pussified men), and they will bring up topics related to relationships or dating. Their goal is not to discuss them objectively and get to know other perspectives. They want either validation or a reaction.
Unlike men who tend to jokingly self-deprecate even in the presence of women, women will never publicly blame their lack of success in dating on their ugliness, professional or financial instability, overweight, lack of humor or otherwise shitty personality. They will often complain that men are the problem, and that women are the victim. This behavior manifests itself in many forms and other women will also immediately jump in to "confirm" each other's conclusions.
Especially if they're interested in you, they will look at you when they attack men to gauge your reaction. It's a classic shit test. Do not fall for it. Remain detached, do not identify with what she refers to as "men".
As a man who swallowed the red pill and who is tired of feminist accusations that men are shit who take advantage of these angels, you might be inclined to step up and voice your opinion. You might even feel personally attacked because they use manipulatory expressions such as "you men are/do this..." and your experience is utterly different from theirs.
You need to resist the urge to even participate in such debates for the following reasons:
Once you take her bait, you have failed her shit test: She'll know it's easy to get a reaction out of you just by criticizing "men" or spouting some feminist bullshit. Remain calm and even laugh at her desperate attempt. Even better, agree with her and jokingly tell her that's why she should seriously consider celibacy, men are nasty bastards!
Women will gang up on you: Seriously, if the group is mostly comprised of women, the other women will step up to assist her if you challenge her illogical conclusions. Even if you ask legitimate questions such as: "How did you arrive at that conclusion?", even if you point out the inconsistencies in her logic or behavior, they'll collectively turn on you with ad hominem remarks that you "men" are assholes who cannot understand women ("how dare you even question her experience as a woman!") and that this proves their theory that men suck. There is no logical discussion with them and no gain for you in it.
Women will use criticism of "men" as an excuse to criticize you personally: When the conversation turns into "men are this...", that's your queue to ignore it and redirect it or leave. If you take her bait, she will escalate to attacking you personally (so why do you do this...etc). It's women's way of negging. Especially if you have so far been standing your ground
Other effective approaches include:
Own up to the supposedly bad behavior in question (even if you don't condone it) and use humor to tell her it's why you could never be anything more than friends with her. This communicates abundance and that you don't need any woman's approval. Basically her opinion is worth nothing. For instance, whenever I hear a woman say "I HATE smokers", I tell her "They can't stand you either...it's not like they're lining up to get with you, chill" even though I don't smoke.
You could also just leave once they bring up this toxic discussions. You don't fucking need them.
Any ideas or experiences you'd like to share?
"Yeah you're right, I wouldn't date a man as well. I always date women and never had a problem."
Very graceful exit good sir. Almost a wise grandfather like tone to it.
grandfather game = best game
That's why they are grandfathers
Amazing response. Keeps it light, doesn't give into the shit test, and might get a laugh out of them.
There is always an option to share your honest option and not give a fuck while still remaining detached. Depends how hard you want to get laid I guess.
What would Chad do? Say whatever the fuck he wants then escalate.
A true Chad would just say this 'hey I wanna fuck someone right now, what say?'. And yeah 9/10 she will oblige because....Chad
Exactly. This comments ends this thread, it's really fucking simple
I'm borderline more with you than the OP, although I see the OP's point quite clearly and it's an important one.
However.....major caveat, as an example: "Yeah, it's pretty funny how dudes who couldn't run 50 yards get so invested with football. However, at the last XXXX judo tournament, I had YYYY experience."
Hell, on some level this splits your point with the OP's. Yeah, most BP men aren't worth defending, so why waste your time? Just take it as a gift wrapped opportunity to DHV.
i definitely agree.
idgaf if they don't like my opinion
Agreed. It's not whether you defend men or not, it's whether or not you give a shit whether people agree with your opinion or not. OP shows that he ultimately gives a shit, so he fails by stepping into the womens' frame.
If a woman started to publicly humiliate you and talk shit about you, would you just stand there smiling because you DGAF?
The same logic applies here, women will lose all respect for you if they see someone can say whatever the fuck they want about it and you simply accept it like a nice little dog.
There are some things in this world worth giving a fuck about, and self respect is one of them, if you don't have self respect, they will escalate and you will be nothing but a vermin to them.
The woman can't humiliate you if you DGAF. Humiliation is like laughter - someone else can try to elicit the response from you, but it's yourself that capitulates or not.
You cannot pretend to be amused about it, you have to be genuinely not bothered.
Happened to me recently. As I was coming out of a club on a great night recently, a strange woman made a nasty remark about the red spots on my face. At 18, when they first appeared, I would have died inside. Years later I don't care, and I shared a laugh with her man while he lit my cig.
This couldn't be further from the truth, if a person jokes and mocks someone publicly and the other person doesn't react, he/she is still being humiliated, people wil feel pity for them.
You're not picturing this correctly. Absolutely do not "accept it like a nice little dog". I am saying absolutely speak your mind and DGAF what anyone thinks of your opinion.
If you're high value and hold your frame, SHE will be the one who is obviously talking nonsense and making herself look like a fool... and she will know it... however deep down.
When you hold the frame, YOU get to decide who is an idiot and who holds the narrative. People around you will side with you.
Indeed, I misinterpreted your comment.
Read it again.
What do you gain by giving an honest answer? Instead you become emotionally invested in the (upcoming) argument and have failed the shit test. Just agree and amplify/ignore.
Because giving honest answers is sometimes just too much fun and peoples reactions hilarious. And showing idiots that they are, in fact, idiots, is very pleasurable thing to do and very hard to resist.
This. Actually, I fucked most when I start spitting out whatever and laughing at the reaction. Last woman I was trying to flirt with was being a total a bitch, so I went full berserk, and start outright showing off, and telling her I was in med school, and that I could totally fix her pathology. When she asked me what was wrong with her. I told her "I cannot tell your diagnose here in front of everyone, because It may be embarassing for you, but I can tell you the treatment. Day 1 Squats 3 x 8"
People started laughing, she was maaaad as fuck, and after that I got a friend of her that was hotter.
That's what Reddit is for. We're talking about women here, idiot.
No, I'm with /u/LittiJari here. Why care what someone else thinks? If he's enjoying himself, that's all he has to worry about. He's completely separated himself from their game and created one of his own. He's not doing it to defend anyone, but for his own amusement. People will pick up on that, especially when they unknowingly fall into said game. That's my opinion, at least.
You can give an honest answer without becoming emotionally invested in the conversation. There used to be a time where a man could voice his opinion of the feminine in the public arena then go about his day. We talk about how men allow feminism to prevail and this is the attitude that allows it. Fuck what you lose, fuck what you gain, a man states his opinion and doesn't worry about what the repurcussions that his existence creates. A man looks to create a world that reflects his inner self, a woman looks to change her inner self to match what the outside world expects. A man looks from the inside out, a woman from the outside in.
I can remember a few times I shut down the bitchy feminist in my class, and the rest of the girls in the class actually laughed at my comment. It depends on the situation youre in. I dont fuck with feminists, so Im not gonna ignore radical feminist bullshit. Although I definitly wouldnt start an argument over "All guys are assholes."
It's nice to respond with the classic, "It takes one to know one," and leave.
Black knighting. Unlike white knighting where you would be a suck up only to not get laid, black knighting you just go scorched earth on your chances of scoring because the burning down the shit test instead of passing is sometimes more satisfying than fucking some woman. Especially when you have abundance and can subsequently move on to another woman after doing this.
Not everything in life is about failing or not a shit test.
Strongly Disagree with OP
It is indeed a classic shit test. She's testing to see if you're a beta or a white knight. You fail this test by throwing your fellow men under the bus.
Betraying your gender singles you out as a loser, as a beta, as a white knight.
When a woman says "oh god and then this asshole railed me all night long and then abused me and dumped me", you don't leap to her defence and you don't condemn men, you show that you understand the dynamics by saying "he sounds hot" and "he sounds sexy as fuck" - thereby showing that you're not going to be playing captain save-a-ho.
By allying yourself with other men, you avoid her doing the female strategy of divide-and-conquer: separating you off (emotionally at first, physically later) from your fellow men and your support network. By pitting you against other men, and other men against you, you are now isolated and have to ally yourself with her and other women. Before you know it your only visible option in life is to be a white knight. Because you're not like those other assholes are you??
Yes, women will gang up on you for siding with men. You have to be clever how you do it. You don't say "women are faking their accusations" and you certainly don't say "yes, men are abusive pigs". You say "there needs to be some common sense applied to these situations".
In short - you fail her shit test by opposing "men" and thereby opposing and reducing your own masculinity.
The OP should be replaced with this. Entirely too much defeatism present. It seems that when you take women too seriously then you’re under self-created compulsion to answer their accusations seriously: either by throwing your gender - and therefore yourself - under the bus, or by engaging the silly creature in a debate.
The supposedly effective ways of dealing with the shit test are too tryhard and complicated, showing that the women’s accusations are taken too seriously.
The attitude should be “lol IDGAF”.
Love how you start the comment! In a healthy sub, we would all agree/disagree without our fee-fees being hurt. Thanks for your post (and to the OP too).
Right.
The post is on topic and presenting a reasonable point of view - hence discussion rather than reporting it or trying to get it deleted.
Agree 100%. Girls don't get tingles from "yes" men.
There's been many times that completely destroying a feminists point of view about a given situation/comment has given me a more masculine image. Even in front of a gaggle of them.
Once people realize that you don't fall into the "status quo", as long as you back up your comments by looking and being the part, you are respected for your counter-culture opinions.
Women love a challenge. Be that challenge.
Absolutely.
You win you win..... you lose you learn. Only the weak wouldn't take that deal.
Agreed, except if she's a feminist she can keep her fucking clothes on.
It's no joke. Self identified feminist is an automatic DQ for me.
I also agree on standing your ground, I've been in this situation more than a few times and eventually learned I had to temper my tendency to be intentionally inflammatory in how I state things.
I just stick to my guns in a casual way. To me, the key is not coming across as resentful or butthurt about it. You never want to make it seem like your belief is solely based on past pain or rejection. So, going against the grain with women, you always want to sound reasonable and amused, not angry and condemning when it comes to mainstream feminist horseshit.
Exactly. This demonstrates low SMV and this makes women attack more not less. It's why self deprecating around them is such a bad idea. They feel compelled to attack betas, and feel a revulsion towards them. Labelling yourself a victim gets you more attacks, not sympathy. And certainly not sex.
OP is trying to mitigate continuing to have a great relationship with said females. You can't, and that's why he's wrong. It's like trying to negotiate with Terrorists. Sure, one or two of them might be really cool people worth negotiating with....but for the most part terrorists are shitty and evil and you DO NOT negotiate with them.
Women are no different and any man who thinks they can be won over in this manner is simply thirsty for pussy, and even worse...for pussy to give him a pat on the head and say "good boy..."
I pressure flip. You're not one of those women, etc etc...
Came here to make this post.
People say "don't argue with women." But there's a correct way of doing so.
If you go A&A it shouldn't be an issue though, right? It's a sarcastic agreement that she can't attack. "Yeah you're right, you should become a nun instead" or some shit
A&A is reasonable..... but I'd advocate that this shouldn't be your only shit test response.
If you're not careful, you end up as the sarcastic joker. Perhaps worse, women enjoy it and keep testing, because the response is so fun.
It's best to change tack after a few of these and switch to the ultimate shit test response: completely ignore it as if it never happened.
Never thought of it that way, wow
Any other ways to mix it up? Because pressure flipping would just make you look like an autist, i.e. "And how girls treat guys...?"
Yeah, you know how well this goes down. Can't portray yourself as the victim.
Another way is to answer with simple statements. Rhetorical questions look weak and are annoying. They're what people do in a losing position, and you must always look strong.
NEVER. ASK. QUESTIONS. (Even rhetorical ones).
I mean... it's ok to ask questions. A little bit. When things are going great and she's clearly into you. But not at first and not when you're being attacked/tested.
So.... "And how girls treat guys?" is better answered with "It's better than how girls treat guys".
Girls will never agree though, and in a way they're right... they have similar experiences as us - failing with guys, being dumped. The big difference is that it's always with the same 5% of guys. I've seen the theory that women like RomComs because they identify with the beta trying to get the girl.
Thing is... women always have the fallback option of dating outside the top 5% when Plan A fails. 95% of men don't have a similar option available.
Anyway, getting off topic.
There is a shit test encyclopedia on the sidebar somewhere. I think I might have added some to it too somewhere along the line.
Pressure flips are best when the counterpoint works. Girl once said "Sure, we'll meet up, see if I like you" and I said "Yeah, be good to meet up and see if we like each other". She took slightly offence (and attraction clearly went up) because it was a subtle pressure flip. A very subtle "see if I like you too, you are not the prize nor the selector here, I am too".
There are higher pressure examples. Eg "Oh really?" and "Are you sure about that?" (yes, I know these are questions, there are probably better ways to do it) and "Prove it". Things like that.
They aren't my style, but they are great to sprinkle in.
A&A is good for a bit. Ignoring is good when you get bored. Pressure flip should be occasional and shocking to her. Just laughing at her is another if what she said is clearly ridiculous. Also, "Right" and "uh huh". Eg girl says "I can't believe you just fucking said that, you're so fucking arrogant". And you just say "uh huh".
Sometimes you can also answer the underlying question directly, this can sometimes be effective. Don't overdo it though, you want to seem totally socially clued up, very high value, but you want to seem like you never knew it was a shit test. You pass because you're awesome, not because you knew it was a test.
And at some level you fundamentally need to not see them as tests (you're not jumping through her hoops). You see them as her being silly, or getting it wrong and making a mistake, or "tsk, girls, with their silliness". If you take it seriously, you're in her frame. Being in her frame and passing her tests is almost as bad as being in her frame and failing them.
And you should absolutely throw out some tests of your own. Some challenges. "Haha right... I bet you're one of those girls who just throws out shit all the time to see what sticks... yeah, men get bored of that shit real fast". Then you follow it up with getting bored and withdrawing your attention - because women especially know that actions have meaning and words do not.
Man, underrated comment of the sub. Can you please elaborate on not asking questions to women? I've never heard this before but it makes sense- questions make you look weak (unless when asking to get to know them).
Weird. It's pretty key.
I'm going to take it one stage further: makes you look weak EVEN WHEN ASKING TO GET TO KNOW THEM.
Asking a question puts you in a weak position, and only the weak and the invulnerable can afford to do this. (She'll work out which it is, and you are likely not invulnerable).
Compare a guy saying one of these two things:
"Hi there, what's your name?"
vs
"Hi there.... tell me your name"
Even on text, even on here, points are better made with statements than questions.
"So, you think that stupid plan will work?"
vs
"That's a stupid plan and it won't work".
When escalating with girls, statements work best.
"Can I take your bra off?"
vs
"Take your bra off. Panties too".
Even if she says no..... somehow it works better if you tell her. "Can I do X" / "No" feels final. "Do X" / "No". Somehow it's more natural to tell her again later.
If you really want information, make a wrong guess instead of a statement.
"What do you do?"
vs
"Tell me what you do"
vs
"I bet you're a phonesex operator"
Most questions can be turned into statements. Highly recommended. Try it.
As in how? Like laughing it off or just not reacting to it? Cause the latter sounds autistic as fuck.
Not only not reacting, completely ignoring it. As if she never spoke.
Try it sometime. I mean, it's not the only way to handle shit tests, and it shouldn't be your first. But to treat her shit test like it never even existed.... what's she going to do, say it louder? In which case "I heard you the first time". So then she says "What, and you just ignored it!??" and you say quietly "yup".
But she won't repeat it. It's an extremely effective slap in the face to someone giving you shit, especially women.
The technique he's employing is a very useful basic assertiveness thing called fogging where you find some limited truth to agree about and blow off the rest. This lets you remain involved in the conversation. There are others. When I Say No I Feel Guilty is the handbook for inquisition survival techniques.
But I will add that even though MattyAnon is saying he strongly disagrees with OP, at a different level he's actually doing exactly the same thing OP recommends: avoiding putting himself in front of the crosshairs. It's a fog with some pressure flip to nudge the conversation elsewhere. The topic of the conversation is setup as about "that guy" and the woman's attraction to "that guy" and not some generalized discussion of "men". Ultimately Matty's advice is also to "resist your urge to defend men", just accomplished differently.
A&A works great if it hasn't really become a topic of discussion and you can brush it off and move on to other more fun topics.
But if this comes off as gauge on where you stand on the doormat/asshole spectrum your gonna be seen as a joker and they will begin to attack that. Which firmly places you in the assholr category but after a few A&A retorts you gotta just have balls and tell them they are wrong
Yeah. And no-one ever mentions the resentment you build up self-censoring like this either. You hollow out your persona and become a bitter person. To be ashamed of one's convictions is to be ashamed of oneself.
I'm not saying just blurt out whatever comes to mind. There is a time and place for everything. But you can be honest with your beliefs in a way that is tactful and builds your social worth. Become a stronger man by learning to articulate and defend the way you think.
thank you. i briefly read this post yesterday and couldn't understand why i saw so many people agreeing with him. didn't get this far but i think your post should be at the top, so here's an upvote.
why would you ever take the side of the girl when a girl is talking about how shitty her guy is? when you do that, you're acting as one of her girlfriends. you know what that gets you? you get invited to girl time and now you're one of the girls. you are not even an afterthought for a mate, as you're never thought of as one to begin with. you lose when you start condemning what the guy did. she's talking about a guy who she fucked.
you don't want to be thought of as the opposite of someone who she fucked. the opposite of who she fucked is someone who she isn't gonna fuck.
Most men fall for this. "I'm not like him! Date me instead!". Not knowing that how he behaves is exactly how a man should behave to elicit female interest.
They do this because they want beta but are attracted to alpha.
Exactly.
We need to stick together goddamn it! Great comment!
This just comes back to the fact that almost all interaction with a woman is commonly lose-lose. Not playing the game, and leaving is really the only answer if we take into account yours, and OP's content.
I think what OP is saying is not to engage in thode kind of arguments when it doesn't matter. Like at a house party or someshit. Even if you win the argument you won't change minds. Side with men when it matters and when it's right especially in action. Talk is cheap and getting in pointless conversations that aren't changing anything isn't productive and does you no favours.
Besides. HE doesn't mean that you should agree with them. It's more like agree and amplify to the point of ridulousness and diffuse.
So I agree with OP but if it was matter of debate and academics and your argument mattered in influencing people, get into it.
Noob here. Can you give examples of lines to use in this situation without opposing 'your side'? Or is it alright if you say something playful like 'now you know why I fall for women' or something like that?
Also, I definitely would not disagree with them all the time, as not all men are the same. Isn't it okay to tell her that not every man is the same or will that result into her noticing a weak defence and thus breaking your frame?
Slightly meaningless, and it's slightly opposing men.
In what situation? I gave examples in my comment.
You mean "Not all men are like that!" or in other words "Some men are nice! I'll be nice to you! I'll be your emotional tampon!".
This is playing straight into her divide-and-conquer strategy. Separate you from men and indeed your own masculinity as you rush to the defence of m'lady, protecting her from those horrible alpha males with your dedicated beta qualities. Of course you won't be expecting sex... because...not all men are like that. Please love me. Please. M'Lady.
This is the natural approach, most men have tried it, most women use this plan, and it's weak as fuck. Sure, not all men are like that, but this is logical. You don't want to communicate that. You want to communicate that you are exactly the same as those sexy bad ass alphas who pump and dump her. You want to be ATTRACTIVE, not supplicating.
I kind of agree with you actually. But I feel that has a time and place for another time.
If you have to engage with this crap, the best thing to do with this, and on the other thread about arguing with women, is to agree and amplify.
But whatever you do, don't get emotionally invested in what's being said. have fun with it, ignore it, or whatever, but the person who cares the least wins these types of conversations.
definitely a solid approach. Defending men just means you care what they think about "men" and you in particular. A recipe for disaster
Agree and amplify does not defend men. You are AGREEING with her, then amplifying it so she sees the dissonance in her thinking.
"Men suck."
"Yeah, let's put them all in gas chambers."
Once the conversation becomes absurd, it usually changes. And that is the best thing for stupid ideas.
This came up at a work happy hour. A couple of women were saying how their teenage daughter's keep receiving gifts from these poor beta suckers even though they're not interested, how they have to teach their daughters how it's not appropriate to keep accepting these gifts and so on.
I responded with, "I don't blame them for not being interested. Of course they're not attracted to them", "the 'nice guy' act never works, right?", "those poor boys, imagine how they're being raised and lied to about how to meet girls".
The conservation was them patting themselves on the back for teaching their daughters these life lessons which I flipped to the real topic.
haha did they then try to argue with you about the nice guy act?
Should've been like I teach my son's how to do the same thing by having sex with girls they aren't interested in having a relationship with. They tell the girls they don't see them like that but the girls keep fucking them.
The slut zone really is synonymous with the friend zone. I wonder if women project that it's ok to friendzone guys because they themselves enjoy being led on...
The friendzone is only socially acceptable due to the Feminine Imperative, whereas the fuck zone is assholeish and is viewed as oppressive/Misogynist.
Never feel guilty using women for sex. Most arent good for anything else.
I have this discussion with female classmates every now and then, and I can confirm that a discussion like this leads nowhere. Even when you use logical arguments or real-life events/experiences they will eventually just gang up on you and start saying you as a man don't understand it and your world view is too limited. To me the discussions are fun though, and they can't handle the fact that they don't get me angry.
lol me too, they always ganged up on me, it's what lead me to this realization to stop arguing with them.
I remember once the topic of marriage came up and one of them said she wants to work full-time after uni, get married and NO WAY be be a housewife, but she would NEVER consider a husband who'll touch her salary, the husband should take care of everything while she keeps her salary to herself and may be help out once in a while "out of love"
I challenged her on her bullshit "what's in it for this husband? he pays for everything and he still has to cook for himself?", he could just get a housewife who'll at least be cook/clean/bear children, the others ganged up on me like i'm some sexist asshole, like seriously their expectations are fucking retarded and it's hard sometimes not to get angry at this level of stupidity
A few weeks back an article came out about 'Bromance' in my country (The Netherlands). They said that the fact that men choose to get the emotional part of a relationship from their best friend is dangerous for women. Because now women will be seen only as a "thing to have sex with".
I'm not surprised that men choose that path when there are girls like your classmate xD
Its like they want you to open up to them and only them, but as soon as you do, youre deemed as weak because you open yourself up and show that youre voulnerable.
It's pretty much all ready like that in America. Or at least for a majority of women. I suspect there's still lots of women who realize they gotta bring something to the table if they want a good happy healthy relationship/family.
Most girls I've met are slobs who don't clean their homes, smoke too much weed, drink too much, party too much, they have no hobbies (napping and netflix are not hobbies), and just post selfies for validation on IG.
There's literally nothing to do with these girls except "netflix and chill".
I agree, but I believe that we as a society have put women on a pedestal for too long, and now they feel too good about themselves.
Most of them are quite annoying, and can't handle doing their own thing while being together. I like hanging out with my girlfriend whenevrr I have one, but I want to be able to do my own thing too.
To me the worst quality a girl can have is being spoiled, which is a big problem nowadays. Most girls I know want everything, but aren't willing to give anything back.
Could have just agreed with her in the most insulting way possible.
"Yeah, that sounds great, I want to marry someone that takes care of all the bills for me while I keep everything I earn too!"
lol yeah great response, that was years ago when I still took women somewhat seriously, nowadays I learned to just laugh at them
I only agree with your original post in the context of trying to get laid immediately.
Women need to get a clue, and men of value need to start acting like “sexist assholes” when they say stupid fantasy bullshit.
Lol I wonder how her future will pan out. Probably married to some loser she doesn't even respect out of fear of judgment by her family and peers to get married before 30 or some shit.
Don't know why anyone thinks they can argue with that logic. That line of thinking has no basis in reality.
Sounds just like “white privilege” discussions...
Luckily we almost don't have those kinds of entitled people in my country. It's more feminism than racism
How about a joke like “I know, I used to be gay but I switched to straight after seeing how terrible men are”
haha yeah agree and amplify, that would completely disarm her
Last week I had a girl say "men, they will never get it" after clearly demonstrating that I get it. (there were betas in the room who saw me do my thing and needed to be told to stay in the matrix and not act like me.)
It's funny how true it is that women always say the opposite of what they mean once you can see behind the curtains.
what did she even mean by that? like get how women tick?
She didn't mean anything. Girls are incapable of 2nd level thoughts, and what guys "don't get" is whatever she was feeling annoyed about at the time.
Yeah the full story is kinda long but I can give it to you if you want to.
The context is something like that I know a lot of girls are interested in me and have reached player status. I was setting girls up against each other with dread game.
men, they will never get it was meant as shaming towards me for not bending to her and being her little bitch. men, they will never get it: "Omg, you asshole I'm so jealous right now"
EDIT: also look at the specific use of the word "men" women used to not call me a man, a beta turd is not a man. You can't be a man if you don't get it.
My only issue is that if this shit is left unchecked socially, it ends up as policy eventually. This shit is the reason we have kangaroo rape courts on college campuses and that asking a coworker out is considered "sexual harassment" unless she decides she likes you. I am probably guilty on reacting to this sometimes but its less because what they are saying offends me its more that these idiots are impacting my life directly.
What would Patrice O'Neal do?
I ask myself that question every day
when women scream how awful men are and what she be done with them or to them, i simply say, "yeah you're right... and we can start with the men in your family... dad, brothers, uncles, grandfather, etc."
they usually say some shit like, "but i don't mean them..."
then silence.
Here's a little nugget. The reason why we find ourselves in this environment of low quality women in the West is because the pussy BP'ers didn't stand up from the beginning.
"Yeah all men are pigs so why are you trying to date them in the first place? Being lesbian is so cool nowadays"
Nice post
Personally I don't even worry about it, just don't even acknowledge baiting. If you do, you're playing their game.
I couldn't tell you the number of times a completely apathetic and bored look has spurred a bitch to jump on the dick later.
Of course this is me, not everyone. Amused mastery and flip the script can work here, though flipping the script should be done only if you've got the social atmosphere strictly on your side, otherwise as op said, team women will be together to waste your time and eat up more validation.
If I have no intentions of fucking any of the girls, I'll use amused mastery and engage them. Taking to them like they're 6 years old gets those panties twisted up. I'll never apologize, and I'll say what I think. I give no fucks what she thinks. I rather enjoy being called sexist, misogynistic, and all the other bullshit. It's amusing as fuck. When they call me names I know I've won and than the intensity of what I say increases. I like fucking with people, stirring the pot. I'll get them all twisted up and then ignore them. It's one of the few pleasures in life I get from social media and fat chicks.
If there is something to be lost on my end, I'll play it different, agree and amplify to make them look stupid, or simply ignore what they said. If I'm bored, I'll play. It's rare I get angry about a discussion, but I have a knack for being offensive and vulgar to the point of getting them mad.. recreational fun
Women are a numbers game. And there's PLENTY of numbers so...avoid getting attached to a potential time bomb; state yr opinion, wait for her reaction and then its decision time. She'd better pull her head in instantly or its...NEXT.
So I am taking a philosophy class where such discussions are brought up.
I decided to introduce the idea that men are relatively viewed as success objects.
A few weeks later I heard from one of my lady friends that some of the women in that classroom were standing in a circle talking about how I am a “sexist.”
Suggestions welcome...
Do I just retreat and never say anything on the topic again? Or should I say, “ya know when I start to defend men I typically am called a sexist.”
think as you like but behave like others... deceive, conform and keep your head down unill you get the papers and finish school.
"You say it like it was a bad thing" Same with racist and whatever ist. "Could be worse, I could be thick" etc etc
Yes, I'd recommend to just ignore the topic like it was never brought up. If they try to bring it up again, agree/amplify or ignore/leave.
Also never discuss pro-men or RP ideas with women, they'll attack you as sexist because it's bad business for them that there are men out there who don't put them on a pedestal.
Believe me this will make it worse, you will never never even get them to seriously listen to your arguments, they'll tell you men don't need defense because they're the ones oppressing women
You should not have used the term "success object". If people google it, they will find this is a term heavily associated with the manosphere, coined by Warren Farrell. You are violating Law 38.
Law 38: Think as you like, behave like others.
Honestly how often does this happen?
I've never really been in a situation where I'm surrounded by women complaining about men being scumbags. Most women I know aren't misandrists at all.. Maybe it's cause I'm in my late 20s and the batshit insane feminism crap usually affects People in the current 18-23 bracket.
Honestly though I wouldn't give a shit about "passing a shit test" with these types. I don't give a fuck what they think about me, so I'd speak my mind.. But at the same time I'm not invested in "winning an argument" or something, it's more a matter of "we have two different opinions, deal with it". They can go tell whoever they want I'm a shitlord, I'll stay here grounded in reality knowing full well that I don't hate women while they're off in their own delusional little world. Even if they run their mouth and talk shit, it's only a matter of time before all their peers realize "this person's a nut!" and distance themselves. I've actually seen this happen with crazy radical feminists after college.
Nothing really. I recently moved from an office full of women to another office full of women and I'm hearing the same story played over and over again.
I just don't debate. I'm at work. Friends will argue and complain. I observe the debate and let the other person become ganged up with. If you don't engage they won't be able to debate you.
My ex used to do the same shit and ask me things. What if a girl went up and punched a guy. I always stood my ground and said if she wants to hit then expect to be hit back. Fists know no gender. She kept trying to give me shit for it and I told her we can agree to disagree, conversation is over.
And this is where you fail the shit test and show no respect for truth, putting your pathetic desire for sex over the improvement of society and fighting for what’s left of the political sphere in western society.
Agreeing or not caring won’t solve anything. Do not ever let these women think that they’re right when they are spewing irrational horse shit.
Captain Save-a-Ho has got nothin' on Captain Save-a-Society here.
This sub is full of overthinking shit these days.
My response to this shit test is always AA, along the lines of "and some are even worse" in a tone that will leave her thinking I did even worse, but will never admit it.
I can’t disagree with this post more. You don’t turn your back on your brothers. You go to bat for them when they’re innocent. I’d say don’t white knight for men, but don’t tolerate shitty behavior from women, either. I think some valid responses might be:
“I’m pretty sure ‘men’ didn’t make you fat”
or
“How could you possibly think ‘men’ are to blame for their lack of interest in you?”
or
“That has got to be the most convoluted blame I’ve ever heard. Are you absolutely sure this issue doesn’t rest squarely on you?”
Ehh... I agree with you, but your example responses come off as a bit too insulting and butthurt to me. (Perhaps I am not properly imagining the delivery.) If you attack back with insults, then it lets them know that their shit test got to you. You can still defend men while maintaining an aloof IDGAF attitude.
I can see what you’re saying about them sounding butthurt. In my head, as I was coming up with them, I was hearing complaints I’ve overheard from women while out and about.
“He’s got me so upset that I’m binging again. My weight is going up and up”
“Why is it so hard to find good men, anymore?”
That kind of stuff.
Bah, bullshit. If you have another valid opinion you speak up, whatever the consequences might be.
Never liked when I get suckered into a talk as a girls 'girlfriend'.
OP has a point, nothing beneficial happened to engaging these things.
LAW 38 THINK AS YOU LIKE BUT BEHAVE LIKE OTHERS http://www.elffers.com/low/start/index2.html
Whenever I hear a woman unironically say "Men are trash", I just agree sarcastically.
"Of course, just the worst. Cant stand them"
Just don't take it seriously and it ends any further conversation about it.
The best way to debate, if you want to do it for some reason, is to throw logical arguments out the window and just insult the opponent. Is the feminazi bitch fat? You win by default 'cause she's a fat and ugly bitch. Is the leftist manlet scrawny and weak? You win by default 'cause you can outbench him in the gym.
If the fight is fair, you could fight fairly, the moment it gets unfair you have to fight back dirty. No other choice.
When women try to start that shit with me, I laugh at them and quietly dismiss them. Drives them fucking nuts.
Thats the best way to deal with them honestly. Arguing with them is a waste of time. Fighting them lands you jail. Laughing at them well... that fuck them up
When women and betas discuss their problems they're not looking for guidelines on how to solve them, they're looking to vent their victim mentality so you can go "oh poor unlucky thing, I agree". That's part of their socialization process.
I would say rather talk about her insecurities and failures that come about with her experience with men and let her know that if she wants YOU, she's got to try and solve those problems. That will really put her on the spot and make her either speechless or pathetically defending herself (because she wouldn't have had the practice of properly defending herself in a rational way). I would lay it out without raising my voice, be calm like you're just talking about the weather.
And while being like that at the same time just try and find a way to humor YOURSELF and act jokingly about her situation. Don't try your hardest to make her laugh though, her predicament is your entertainment remember that. You can offer solutions on what she could do rather than what the man should be doing putting her in the position of taking responsibility which women should do really.
Meeting, dating women is supposed to be fun and entertaining. Don't try to turn it into some kind of job interview. Find a way for you to have an enjoyable evening. You have to do away with stress. If you're doing the inviting make sure you take her to a place YOU want to go not the place you think she will fall for you, women actually do want the man to call all the shots anyway. If the date is a failure so what you still get to get what you want and get whatever entertainment she can offer.
The most beta responses would be:
Could be a fun little spin on agree and amplify. The false beta approach. She moans "men are so awful" and you reply "omg you're right, on behalf of my gender please let me apologize" all sarcastic of course. The kicker is when you offer "here, take my wallet/credit card and buy yourself a drink" and then laugh in her face
you dont argue with children, you play with them
What did i just read ? This is completely wrong. Go read law 38 but not this blue pill bullshit. Why does this blue pill dream even get upvoted ?
Wouldn't you say this is Law 38 though? "Think As You Like But Behave Like Others". Not saying that I agree with op but isn't this what he is doing?
Best response to this sort of shit test IMO
I disagree, first of all, you shouldnt really care what she thinks RIGHT NOW, if she attacks man, just ignore it if she asks you for your opinion, state your opinion if you want to, else tell her you are not there to gossip like a chick if the guy indeed sounds awesome, agree and amplify, make a joke about how he sounds actually more interesting than she does and you might drop her next time and hang out with him, personally I think women dont really care about your opinion anyways, they just want to see if you agree or if you dont give a fuck
If you have to shit on men to be with a bitch then you're shit for being with her. Have some respect. Lift and hold honor.
Disagree. In the car some 23 year old tried to play this card. We were in the city. I asked her how she liked the road we were driving on. How many of the buildings around us were built by women. After some halfhearted attempt to defend her position, she conceded 99% of the things she enjoyed in life were built by men or robots.
...and those robots were built/coded by men.
Don't answer. Just laugh at them... laugh loud and make a face like they are crazy... then walk out of the room go outside and light one up... 10 bucks the hottest one there will follow you out and you'll be banging her in the car park in 5 mins
just leave once they bring up this toxic discussions. there you go
Sorry, buddy...
But if some bitch trash talk about me, it doesn't matter if its my gender, my race or my sexuality, I will put the bitch in her place.
I couldn't care less if I am "failing her shit test". There is nothing more pathetic than a man who takes insults and disrespect and accept them with a smiling face because he is afraid girls will dislike him. There is a reason you said this sort of situation happens when you are surrounded by women or "pussified men", because PUSSIES put up with this shit.
Op is an idiot. If you care that much what women think of you then you are a literal cuck. His entire premise is "well what if women think ur a creep!!??" I think I'll live. Realize your woman probably sleeps with guys she tells you are creepy/ass holes.
lmao I don't give a fuck. Some dumb bitch is gonna start spouting stupid shit I'll put her in the ground on front of her friends. not like I'm trying to spend much time with her in the future anyways.
Resist the urge to defend men? Haven’t you got that backwards?
The easy thing to do is agree with women when they blame men
As long as you don't come off as emotional or butthurt, you should be principled and stand up for what you believe in. If you're secure in your beliefs you won't even feel the need to have to defend them in a dogmatic way. This whole post is just common sense about avoiding political arguments.
You and I have not met he same women
Shit most of my friends blame their ugly ass looks man or woman
Just women talking is a shit test. By listening and thinking about it, analyzing it or retransmitting it you have failed. Don't listen. Hear. Don't respond. Change the topic and transition into escalation. Always resist your urge to give a fuck what they're talking about.
like they've ever got anything of value to contribute to the conversation anyway. "Ma Feels, Ma Emotions, Ma Wants, Me Me Me"
tl;dr to 98% of what comes out of a woman's mouth: "me me me now now now".
Yes just talking to women is the mistake
I didn't say don't talk to women. But illiterate people probably shouldn't unless her eyes are spaced too far apart. Talk to them. But don't let them frame or own the conversation. They don't even take what they say that seriously, so why should you?
It goes both ways. Sometimes, the shit test is whether you have spine or conviction. If you don't respond, or you end up agreeing out of thirst (I don't care if its jokingly), you may fail end up failing a subconscious shit test of hers. Women often look for resistance to rule out you being a beta bitch.
Yeah. You're supposed to get out your flail and start beating yourself with it reciting "I'm sorry I'm male."
Like, WTF is this mangina bullshit doing on here?
Why even put yourself in a position to have to do all this? The answer is. Don't.
If you can't even get your own family members at a thanksgiving dinner to agree with your "amazing" arguments on xyz, what makes you think you'll ever get a random woman who you do or do not want to befriend or have on your side as an ally?
First and foremost, women will never be your ally. They may make it out to seem like they are at any particular moment, but over all they don't give a fuck about you. You are a pawn, a utility, in what ever crazy plot they have going for what they're trying to get. And, believe me, they're always trying to get more....and more.
Hypergamy dictates this, and it's instinctual in all women to have this sort of behavior. So many men miss this (just ask the millions of men who went through divorce and are currently paying Alimony...half of all their assets divided up at gun point by Senor Big Daddy Family Court), because "she's different than all the other ones." You're lying to yourselves if you think that. If you don't think so you haven't been paying attention and don't respect what the Red Pill is about (waking the fuck up).
Dude, I think your trying to get laid too hard. You should defend your fellow man.
I just say: "Yup, men are evil." and keep talking.
Ops advice is only good if you're so desperate to get laid that you don't mind being a feminist bitches house nigger. If you have abundance mentality, and don't have a problem getting notches; then you don't have to deal with that shit from crazy bitches!
Who would want to fuck a feminazi anyway? That's a surefire way to get a false rape allegation! The proper response is to troll them until they crack and either freak out, or leave in disgust.
Ironically, I think standing up for men and showing you don't give a shit what they think of you has the potential to wet more panties and obtain more notches than OP's advice.
Just find out her problem area and throw her off balance. Like "if you didn't have that muffin top, I'd totally fuck you".
She'll get angry. Then she will abuse you. Be cool as if nothing has happened. And then she ll come to be dicked by you. But you got to stay cool. You even as much as say 'shucks' for that comment, you can kiss that pussy goodbye.
Owning faults works best for me. I'm always rewarded with respect and trust. And if you're gonna own it, then own it. Don't diffuse the gravity of the matter with humor, unless it's something trivial, because then you don't really own it.
i may be mis interpreting what your saying here, I certainly hope it's not the initial impression i got, which is essentially to apologize on behalf of all men for mens terrible behavior.
That sounds like cuckooldd dooddle doooo language to me and is the first step towards paying your LT's "Pleasure consultant" on a monthly basis.
Damn I've sat in groups of women blabbering: "Men are all like this..." "men do that..." "Men are unable to do ..." blah blah blah. I always just sit there and dammit it definitely is a shit test right down to the expression on their face when they're sure you're going to respond to give them something to pushback from. I sit there and take it unless I can conveniently walk away but I'll take it and they'll dish out some more and I take it again. Fucking hilarious. They don't hear themselves.
After some time it does become passive-aggressively entertaining to watch them play "let's see how much we can say in front of the dopy guy". I have to say I've learned to really stay the fuck away from groups of women unless there's some chance at fucking. If a woman wants to meet me I'm really quick to find out what's the group if any. It really helps. God help me if I end up at coffee with 3 women. Ugh.
I think in many cases it's not a shit test per say, but testing the waters to see if your going to be providing them with resources. For example: "I hate how all guys just want sex." What she really means is "If i fuck you will I be getting resources in return?" And at this point you either dangle that resource carrot or you don't.
Nice post. I honestly stop arguing with women. I just ignore them. I learned that its kind of crazy to try to understand women and it makes my head hurt.
Wtf some chick told you she hated smokers and that's how you responded lol. That doesn't even sound like a shit test.
Just have to educate some people and if theyre unreasonable help them along the way. We were all lost at one point.
This is pretty good advice. Whenever a woman says such things to me I usually just agree in a vague way. Just like "yeah babe definitely they're terrible." if what they say is terribly incorrect I'll just say "OK" or "nah" with a light hearted laugh and continue the conversation. Definitely don't get caught up in this because it's not even a big deal, brush it off as so.