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Have some fucking standards and self respect

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November 25, 2017

Here is a massively important takeaway from Mark Manson's "Models." If you haven't read it, fucking read it. Imo it is a fundamental building block of trp principles.

My criteria for investing any time into a woman:

It is either a fuck yes or a no.

Either she is fucking stoked on me, in which case i'll push to hang out make time for her, or it's a no.

So many dudes chase after girls who aren't Fuck yes-level interested in them, which is a total waste of their time and degrades their integrity and self respect. If she isn't all that into you, it isn't going to be that great of an encounter anyway. There isn't going to be a magical moment where your inner don juan turns this girl from uninterested to gushing all over you.

The best times I've had with women are when they're legitimately stoked to meet or spend time with me. These are the chicks who are seriously attracted to you, invest themselves in you and fuck with something to prove. The times where I've forgone my self respect and chased a girl, basically indirectly begging her to hang out, are the times where they've starfished in bed. Personally, i'd rather jerk off than fuck a girl who doesn't really want to fuck me.

Instead of thinking I wonder if she likes me? Think, I wonder if I like her and I wonder if i'd like to spend time with her? You are the prize, don't forget.

Post Information
Title Have some fucking standards and self respect
Upvotes 846
Comments 124
Date 25 November 2017 02:35 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
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[–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguardbsutansalt[M] [score hidden] stickied comment (1 child) | Copy

So many dudes chase after girls who aren't Fuck yes-level interested in them, which is a total waste of their time and degrades their integrity and self respect. If she isn't all that into you, it isn't going to be that great of an encounter anyway. There isn't going to be a magical moment where your inner don juan turns this girl from uninterested to gushing all over you.

This also applies to getting phone numbers, particularly with guys stuck in pre-smartphone/pre-social media modes of thinking who mistakenly believe getting a number means something. It doesn't.

Unless the woman is actually into you, preferably at the FUCK YES! level, then odds are she's going to flake or string you along for attention. Think about all of the ways women get attention and validation these days, from Tinder, to social media, to the actual guys in their lives which includes orbiters and guys with actual high status they already are at the FUCK YES level with and/or may already be banging on the side. This perpetual stream of sex, validation, and attention is what YOU are competing with.

The old style of dating, and pickup for that matter, is pretty much dead these days. You must adapt and be your best self physically as well as bringing your A-game when you first meet them, otherwise you lessen your chances of them being a FUCK YES! when you try to convert that first interaction into dates or hookups or whatever. If you don't, well, have fun with 95% of your numbers flaking, or worse being added to her bullpen of beta orbiters.

[–]Endorsed ContributorAuvergnat428 points429 points  (32 children) | Copy

The problem with that mindset is that it can quickly turn into a buffer, that is, that you rationalize your fear of approaching a girl as a decision not to act because of her lack of obvious interest. "That babe is hot, but she does not stare at me. She's not interested and I'm not going to do any work for a girl who's not ecstatic at my presence in her life, so I won't go talk to her."

And then you get into a completely counter-productive mindset where you just sit on your ass at the bar, waiting for the girls to come talk to you, because you're only interested in those who already decided to fuck you before you said a word. "Well I started talking to that girl but she didn't seem overjoyed at what I was saying so I just quit there and then."

Unless you're hot, seducing girls take work. Sure there will be those who are into you right from the start, or shortly after. But that's a tiny number of them. There is a non-negligible percentage of girls who will fuck you enthusiastically, but not until you've slowly build up their attraction to you. To get there you'll need to approach her, initiate and maintain the conversation, demonstrate high social value, get her to enjoy your company, neg her a bit, isolate her, maintain her interest between dates, get over her last minute resistance, etc. etc. That is not "chasing her", that is putting the necessary work to generate her attraction in the first place and overcome her doubts. That is the work you need to put to get her to "really want to fuck you".

"Chasing" a girl is the attitude of neediness that men tend to display and that's bad only because it subconsciously establishes her as the one with the superior value, and that is the death of her attraction to you. You don't want to be "basically indirectly begging her to hang out" as you said. But you need not let her initial lukewarm interest stopping you from doing the things destined to increase that interest.

My current girl is sending me daily texts to beg me to fuck her. I have the dynamics right in the sweet spot. But I remember clearly at the beginning her extremely slow answers to my texts. I had to put the foot down to grab her attention and put the work to eventually get her addicted to me.

[–]Endorsed ContributorJamesSkepp113 points114 points  (13 children) | Copy

Unless you're hot, seducing girls take work

Even if you are, it still takes work if she's not alone, if she has her orbiters, options and so on. Unless we're talking about massive difference in looks in favour of the man, it always takes work.

[–]Psychocist64 points65 points  (1 child) | Copy

This is the reality. If I only dated women who were a fuck-yes towards me, I doubt I'd have slept with anyone. Women warm up a little slower. If they don't become a fuck-yes after I've slept with them, THEN ok, bail.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor29 points30 points  (9 children) | Copy

Women that really, really want you will burn down their entire world to get to you. I've witnessed it enough times to shake my faith in our species.

[–]Lyonhurt27 points28 points  (2 children) | Copy

The same is true of the most bluepilled of men out there.

[–]FinancierGuru17 points18 points  (0 children) | Copy

Ha, ha. This is the best reply and really 99% of cases out there.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

The thirst is very real and often very nauseating to watch.

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (1 child) | Copy

Guys end up here when they were the world that was burnt down.

Become the phoenix.

[–]Endorsed ContributorJamesSkepp2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

Unless they are with their friends and you just met her.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

Friends can be a tool too, depending on the situation. I've literally had women approach me for sex because they were the last in their circle that hadn't fucked me yet. One was the sister my best friend at the time and she had to get utterly shitfaced to get the courage up to ask me. She was so drunk I refused, though I probably would have if she was sober. She was so angry I didn't that she never said another word to me again.

Mind you, this was probably at my peak SMV based on optics alone. I wouldn't expect to pull off this feat now.

[–]Endorsed ContributorJamesSkepp2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

The situations you described are not cold approach, it's social circle game and in that circle you already established your value.

[–]Endorsed ContributorAuvergnat1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Sure but to get to a (decently looking) girl to that stage, you would have had to play some incredible Game for a good while. That or having sky-high status or looks to start with.

[–]startsmall_getbig1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Is there some guide on approaching a woman in a bar and not looking like a creep? I was out to get groceries and there were few bars on the sidewalk and from the view I was getting as I walked pass the glass window, not a single woman was alone. Many already had plenty company, maybe from work.

[–]womans_algorithm17 points18 points  (2 children) | Copy

I had to put the foot down to grab her attention and put the work to eventually get her addicted to me.

Mind sharing how you did that?

My response to her "slow answers to texts" is to match her interest level, so I respond slowly as well. I think if I would continue to show higher level of intrest than her, it would shift the power balance onto her side.

[–]Endorsed ContributorAuvergnat10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy

You are perfectly right. Commandment 5. Adhere to the golden ratio.

The theory is that to generate attraction, you need to show that you have higher value than her. And having a lower interest level than her is one way to show this but it's usually not enough. When face-to-face you can ignore/neg her but also DHV to her and her friends. But by text? Girls have so many options at all times that if she shows low interest in her texting and you only answer with low interest in your texting, you're just going to quickly spiral into a mutual ghosting.

When this dynamic happens, I know it's basically over, so I throw a Hail Mary pass. I'll send one text saying that my time is too precious to spend it entertaining flaky girls and making a (clearly) final attempt at a meetup. Doesn't work all the time and it's difficult to calibrate so that it doesn't appear needy or chasing, but in that case it was written short and well enough and that made her qualify herself ("I'm not a flake!") and gave me a small spike of value ("This guy is dominant and knows what he wants") that was just enough to get over that low initial interest bump.

[–]iluvuki444 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yes. Keep doing that. If your intrests dont align, you wont be making her intrested in you. This applies to all relationships.

edit: spelling.

[–]PsyMonk-8 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy

I just have to fucking ask.... I do all that shit. What the fuck does she do other than equally look hot?... I'm with the OP on this one... Chasing girls is stupid and having to gradually turn her knobs is a fool's game.

[–]Endorsed ContributorAuvergnat14 points15 points  (1 child) | Copy

I work 40 hours a week to make a living when there are people out there who don't have to do shit because they were born wealthy. I can be jealous and upset but if I demand they work, they'll just laugh at my face, and if I stop working to be like them, it won't make me wealthy anyway.

The work is yours to do until you achieve a really high value and drop significantly your standards. And even then, you're still supposed to be the one to approach. Such is the game. Such is reality. Love it, hate it, be mad at it, but it's here to stay.

But hey you don't have to play. You don't have to be trying to pick up chicks if you don't want to. Girls will just fuck other guys and never know you even exist. Fap to porn until you make good money and then pay for hookers.

[–]PsyMonk-5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Exactly my point. If you refocus that attention you put into gaming bitches you could be investing in yourself instead where you get to a place in your career, life & image that women all come to you to flip your switch as you indirectly turn all their knobs to the max without uttering a word in their direction, you're living by example.

That's work any sane man would GLADLY do. It's why we're all here. But if we're gonna transition into a pick-up forum then this place will be doomed. We're trying to engrave in stone the multitude of ways a man can master this realm to his highest calling & benefit. Chasing women or partaking in their games is not one of them and a clear sign you're being sucked into their world. Like I said, it's a fool's game.

Why play chess with a pigeon that's only pretending to play when you know it has no idea what it's doing? There's more to life than figuring out the labyrinths that are women. If that's what you guys are here to do then be my guests, just try to keep it over somewhere else.

It's funny how so many of you are so black and white. If I'm left you go far right, if I'm up you go way down, the fuck's with the contrast lmao? If I don't chase girls I sure as hell won't pay for them either. There's more to life than fapping. Seriously stop sounding like rats in the rat game. No one strives to be a cog in the machine. If it's not free sex & natural sex, then it's not fucking worth it. You guys are continuing to give these bitches power by surrendering to them otherwise you can't play. They can fuck whoever they want, at the end of the day, those suckers are poorer for it, and those bitches are all the more brokenhearted and misled. Let them fuck the guys with their heads up their asses and join them too.

I hate how men have to "drop their standards", but women can carry on for centuries by "picking the top 20% of men only while using the rest". Bro... You sound so whipped. What happened to your spine?...

[–]1OneRedYear2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

This is where the anti-dump machine comes in play. For those who don't know, google Pook Anti Dump machine.Pook and Anti-Dump's Machine

[–]1empatheticapathetic0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Some good stuff in there. I read 20 pages so far.

[–]mummersfarce_is_done1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Sometimes a hot woman gives me the eye before I even said a word. Sometimes another hot woman doesn't. It really seems to change depending on my current social standing too, though I sometimes end up as the hottest male in the room before even saying a word. I must be really hot then?

I guess I prefer lifting, correcting my mindset and displaying a good posture over seducing girls.

[–]Endorsed ContributorAuvergnat5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

If you get stares from any woman from times to times then congrats, you're in the top 10% looks-wise. If you get stares from hot women from times to times, make it top 5%.

If so, you don't need to learn much game to get laid, for sure. But why being so against it? Game is not using "witty pick-up lines" or being a dancing monkey. It's knowing how to control the frame of a conversation, knowing how to alternate hot and cold to make them wet, knowing how to tease them to make them giggle and have so much fun, knowing how to isolate them from their jealous cock-blocking friends... It's all very fun. And if you're hot, it'll all be very easy.

But then again, if you prefer just to stand there with a beer in your hand and just wait for them to come to you, and since you're hot enough for it to work, then why not.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, and then you blame women for not being into you when you didn't even try or give her any indication that you were even interested.

[–]SavingMasculinity0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is the correct mindset to have. For men, attraction is like a switch. For women, it's more like a dial.

[–]EsteraMC 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

So which one is it? Can TRP make up their minds? Approach even disinterested girls or only those who show at least some interest? I approach ALL girls and I have gotten 1 lay in about 800-1000 approaches. So. What am I doing wrong?

[–]Endorsed ContributorAuvergnat0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Do you do direct or indirect approaches? Do you follow any method?

[–][deleted] 117 points118 points  (37 children) | Copy

I remember I used to chase so much, it lead to nothing. Us guys just want the female so bad it's a basic reaction, chase what you desire. But desiring a woman is alot different than desiring interest not involving sex, don't chase a woman that doesn't want you.

[–][deleted] 117 points118 points  (17 children) | Copy

Literally chase everything else in life, except people. Chase gainz, chase money, chase experience etc. If you chase success and experience and find some of it, women will find you.

[–][deleted] 35 points36 points  (1 child) | Copy


Someone said on here if you chase women you get neither women nor money.

If you chase money you get both.

Also works less materialistically with travel or any positive experience that encourages growth. Chase a great body = great body and women.

[–]DamnDatAssSoFine 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

No. If I see a girl down the street, whom I’m probably never gonna see again, I literally run after her.

And if you actually have any idea what you’re doing, there’s a very high chance it goes well (unless, as Mark puts it, there are ‘frictions’).

[–]PsyMonk-4 points5 points  (9 children) | Copy

That's thirst & complete opposite demeanour of "abundance mentality".

[–]DamnDatAssSoFine 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

So, if I’m understanding you correctly, what you’re saying is that if you see a girl you find attractive, you’re not gonna approach her because “abundance mentality”?

Am I missing something here in your argument?

[–]PsyMonk-6 points7 points  (7 children) | Copy

You didn't just "see a girl you found attractive". Nigga you saw her, she was not only WAY out of your way but you spent the energy and thought to catch up to her just to what, "Tadaaa" present yourself? If you could see yourself from above in a dream or after life, what would you think of yourself? Especially if you do that shit a lot? You'll think "Look at me running after all these girls, wasting my motherfucking time." And if you don't, oh boy have you got some growing to do... Don't reincarnate back here to learn the same shit you should've been learning in your awakening instead of falling for earthly desires and societal traps........ Get that "I have to chase a girl" mentality the hell out of your head, so you can get a "I have so many women from having focused on my self obsessively the thought of chasing a woman down would never cross my mind in a thousand years..."

Be a fucking king for fuck sakes.

[–]DamnDatAssSoFine 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

dude, how about you calm down a bit.

  1. I've gotten laid like this many times, found pretty cool and awesome women.
  2. let me give you a sense of proportionality. 15 minutes is not a waste of time.
  3. The only way you "have so many women" is when you actually have so many women.
  4. Approaching women is a waste of time to you? Do you have women you like throwing themselves at you wherever you go/ at your doorstep? If so, please elaborate.
  5. what are you even looking for? What's your end goal here?

Maybe it's time to go back to the drawing board...

[–]PsyMonk-2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

You're literally snatching women out of their lives to force an interaction. 15 mins is a waste of time if you habitually do that shit which by the sounds of it, you do a lot. I don't have to know you to know that if you do this you most likely don't have your life where you want it to be. Approaching women is a waste of time if you're not yet at your peak performance which is when women constantly approach you. You don't have to currently have women throwing themselves at you to know better than to chase them instead of getting closer to that point where you no longer need to chase. Your status, image & behaviour should be enough to pull any woman that actually crosses your path. If you're on the lookout for women across the street who don't even see you, you're way off path. By all means keep wasting your time while the guy who doesn't racks up much better pussy at a much faster rate with much less effort because he had his focus turned on appropriate things. You are LITERALLY chasing pussy instead of attracting pussy.

(Stop repeating yourself then finishing with a retarded shameful wisecrack. You sound annoying.)

[–]DamnDatAssSoFine 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Hey buddy, I was actually trying to have a meaningful back-and-forth here. You seem to be taking it way too personally.

While what you're saying sounds good on paper, that's really not what I'm going for.

I have my life on the side, if I'm out shopping or taking my lunch break and I see a girl I find attractive, I approach her and talk to her. I can't seem to understand why you're so hostile to that idea.

You explain to me this utopia of sorts where girls throw themselves at you, and while that's true to an extent, you gotta ask yourself, what are you going for here? what's your ultimate goal/pleasure?

Is it the image? The image of girls throwing themselves at you that's turning you on? Then, sorry to break your balls a bit here, but that's not gonna be nearly as pleasureful as you probably think. My assumption is that, because that image is mainly out of your control, you're not going to make much satisfaction out of it.

On the other hand, you also have to consider a couple of cultural realities. That we currently live in a culture where it is expected of men to approach women, regardless of how attracted the girl is. You can hate or love this fact, but your best bet is to adapt.

I don't see anything wrong with being a man in his prime, with his life where he wants it to be, and at the same time approaching girls that he finds attractive. Why not both? What's so wrong about initially playfully chasing women and have them chase the rest of the way, in a back and forth that ends with amazing sex?

[–]PsyMonk-2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Do you know why CEOs, Rockstars, Athletes, Entrepreneurs, Visionaries & Actors never have to chase women? Because they honed their life so much they reversed the roles. That's beyond adapting, that's rewriting the rules. That's why men are so confused as to why they can't be like them. They have no idea how much work happened behind the scenes. That tremendous work can only happen if you don't have time chasing bitches, get laid when you can and the opportunity presents itself, but sacrificing your time, energy, money & thought to "win over" distant prospects whose attention & approval you have to capture is a waste. That's not me being hostile that's me being realistic and giving you what I've taken from years of doing what you're doing.

My ultimate goal? To not be wasteful. With anything. Not my emotions. Not my time. Not my money. No my attention. Not my standards. Not my morals. Not my value. Not my appearance. I don't want anything to go to waste.

You will realise when you get older that pussy loses its charm and what you never stopped wanting from the very fucking beginning was freedom. The sooner you realise freedom trumps anything else you may enjoy is when you realise your own power. I have no idea if this is all falling on deaf ears because you can't fully grasp it because not enough has happened for you to realise it to your core or if it's just a matter of time and you will get this later. But either way: Real men don't chase. Women chase them.

[–]bossplayaintraining5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

But girls don’t ever chase anybody except the top 0.00000001%, which I feel I’ll never become.

[–]Cos_7_ate_912 points13 points  (1 child) | Copy

You can be top 30% and have 5s and 6s chasing you.

[–]KARMAAACS12 points13 points  (12 children) | Copy

As a young man i'm still learning this, 21 and I keep making this mistake. Sadly.

[–]thoughtlow20 points21 points  (10 children) | Copy

Making mistakes over and over again. Identify and learn from them.

[–]KARMAAACS10 points11 points  (9 children) | Copy

I try man, but each time I say "this girl is different" etc. I can't really read people that well, it's just not a skill I have, I take people on face value too easily. Or I go the other side of the pendulum and trust no one and become paranoid of everyone, which leads to ending of relationships too. Essentially, I just can't figure out what people want, especially women, they say one thing but mean another or they say something and do mean it 100%. Too hard to gauge.

[–]thoughtlow20 points21 points  (5 children) | Copy

It is a skill you can train. Also don’t listen to what people say, watch what they do. This is even more true with woman.

[–]thegillenator1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Unless you’re on the spectrum?

[–]1rporion1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

In a way it should make it easier to see what they do.

Maybe harder to interpret.

[–]KARMAAACS-2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy

Easier than it sounds, easier than it sounds.

[–]ThrowFader8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

deleted What is this?

[–]grotton4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Just build your brand. Make the game come to you.

[–]buddhadarko11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy

You need to hone your people skills. I’m an introvert, but you’d never know it in a social setting because I’ve learned what traits are my strong points and which ones aren’t. So, it’s become very easy for me to adapt to my environment, but to not lose my own core essence. When you try and be someone else, you’re never going to feel or seem organic. Nothing you do will be congruent, you will constantly be in your head instead of in the current moment. Others will pick up on your incongruence, especially women, and this all leads you to here saying the things you’ve been saying.

It’s a viscious cycle that we’ve all either been in or been close to being in. Be ridiculously HONEST with YOURSELF, first. Identify your traits but be as objective as you can. It may be difficult to do, so if it doesn’t work with just you doing it, have someone that you trust (or you know to be of sound reasoning) tell you about yourself frankly. No sugarcoating. Once you’ve done this, you can work on your core self but also get better at adapting to social environments without losing yourself.

The rest of what you need is radical understanding of TRP principles such as AWALT. If you understand and accept AWALT, then you would never be saying “this girl is different”, because you’d know that while they look and sound different, and some display traits that others don’t, they are all the same. Some of them are just better at being Machiavellian and are able to successfully hide their nature without many people seeing through them or being aware that they even exist.

Maybe you’ve heard of things like “believe half of what you see, and none of what you hear”? This addage could be applied directly to women, if no one else. Their actions are manifestations of their ability to play the role they need to in order to get the value they believe they can get with their looks/status/sexual value. If you read into their actions alone and go off of that, it is tantamount to believing the special effects in movies are real and then getting upset because your favorite actor can’t actually or shoot lasers out of his eyes. They’ll tell you it wasn’t real, it was just for show, and nobody can really do those things except in the movies. This is how women are. They put on the special effects and men who aren’t familiar with TRP fall for it, every time. A woman’s behavior, good or bad, is all part of her innate strategy. Believe only half of it. for the rest of it stems from an insincere place that even SHE is unaware exists within her.

[–]SteamingRedditurd1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Doing nothing is a mistake, too, so I for one honour your honest efforts to achieve happiness. Your action is key!

[–]coin_pwr4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

She must choose you. If a man wants a woman that does not want him, he cannot win.

[–]Thizzlebot4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

I remember I used to chase so much, it lead to nothing.

Good call especially since the evolution of social media, now bitches don't even need to be excited about everything because the market is leaning so much in their favor.

As a man if you want something you need to make it happen but make sure you have enough self respect to not waste your time.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Once you understand the counterintuitive nature of female attraction it all becomes embarrassingly obvious doesn’t it.

[–]1Entropy-745 points46 points  (6 children) | Copy

I agree with you to the point of "duh".

There is a TRP saying that "you can't negotiate attraction". If she isn't into you then look elsewhere or go back to the drawing board / gym and improve yourself.

Put yourself out there, and see which fish bite. There is only a narrow band of women who you can actively win over from being indifferent or even negative, and it usually is not worth your time.

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (3 children) | Copy

Certainly. I see so many desperate guys on trp trying to "game" girls, act like they dgaf, when in reality they're just chasing. Girls are intuitive creatures, they sense it long before you open your mouth to talk about how cool you are.

[–]1Entropy-74 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

"Game" needs an acorn that you can grow into an oak. But game is more than talking hot shit about yourself.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

Game is honest expression. It's less about saying what the girl wants you to say and more about not being afraid to say what YOU have to say. When it's authentic, she can tell.

[–]1Entropy-79 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's a bit of both in that you need to say what she wants you to say, and pitch it honestly.

The term I use is "unselfconscious". It's a big word that mostly means IDNGAF. You say and you do rather than wasting moments thinking about what to say or do.

An awkward novice can't do it and they need to get comfortable in their own skin and comfortable with having women around.

[–]startsmall_getbig0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Where does a person go to grab attention of woman?

[–]1Entropy-71 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

There is day game, night game and internet game. There might be some subspecies but that is about it.

[–]NMF_23 points24 points  (0 children) | Copy

I can usually tell within like 5 minutes of approaching a girl if it’s going anywhere or not. Completely agree with the post - once you approach, it should be relatively easy to tell if she’s into you, only spend time on the ones that are.

[–]Ainitux27 points28 points  (1 child) | Copy

Most women will never be fuck yes at the beginning even if you are very good looking and alpha in general. So keep them warm. Still have a chat with them every now and then. There is no reason to drop it right away keep them warm and keep spinning plates. Then one evening she will be bored she will text you you get the lay. Dont make a big deal out of it. always keep spinning and the ones that are not that attractive right away keep having a conversation every now and then. Create back ups for the future

[–]Cos_7_ate_95 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is definitely something I'm going to apply. I've been in the habit of giving ultimatums to lukewarm women but there's nothing to lose by leaving it in case they decide to text you. As long as you don't waste time thinking about them in the meantime that is.

[–]flybywired15 points16 points  (5 children) | Copy

Bruh I started off with Models and I feel like I have no need to read other books. It's just such a concise and clear message. Value your time and others will value it as well. I also feel like it goes above and beyond just women advice, and could be used as general life advice just as well. People can usually see right through shitty attempts to deceive (like coming up with an elaborate opener or what have you).

Fan-fucking-tastic book.

[–]Cos_7_ate_94 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Value your time and others will value it as well.

I recommend On The Shortness of Life by Seneca for some great arguments as to why your time is inherently valuable. It's only an hour on YouTube iirc.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Couldn't have described it better myself. Mark manson killed it.

[–]SelfTaughtPiano0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The book of pook.

youre welcome

[–]red_reality 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

FR: even your boy gets shut out. I'm writing this because even an entire evening of solid frame, solid looks, solid social status doesn't compare to your targets "mother hen" room mate deciding you're just a little too bit valuable for her friend to ride off with into the sunset.

But, there is one thing I didn't lose tonight...

When This girl said she couldn't roll w me, I asked why. After her explanation, it made sense. Her cunt-swab friend was jealous and she convinced her to pack it in. Cool. Obviously I wasn't valuable enough to persuade this girl to break her social cues. I wasn't persuasive enough to lure her out of her safety net.

Boys, this is fucking life. Sometimes things don't work out.

The only fucking option is to bow out gracefully. Even if it feels fucking terrible. Even if you've invested hours. Thank the pretty girl and send yourself on your way.

Your life is so much bigger than one rejection.

So, what didn't I lose? This girl walked up to me, with a look of regret in her eyes and said, I'm sorry, but I can't go w you, my friend said it's not a good idea.

What was my response? "Hmm, OK. No worries at all. I would absolutely fucking love you to come w me, but I understand smile" the look on her face was defeat.

And honestly, because of the lack of investment in my departure I can almost fucking guarantee you she'll contact me for a round two.

What was the alternative? Complain or beg her to come with me? Grab her arm and pull her? Lmaoo there is no other option.

If you're willing to walk away, you're demonstrating a lower level of investment than she is. You're demonstrating a lower level of neediness. This is where female attraction comes from.

[–]ThrowFader11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy

deleted What is this?

[–]Endorsed ContributorJamesSkepp5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

even an entire evening of solid frame, solid looks, solid social status doesn't compare to your targets "mother hen" room mate deciding you're just a little too bit valuable for her friend to ride off with into the sunset.

Your problem is clear (:D): you think having value is enough (or necessary).

This is why scruffy drugdealer fuckboi can pull and the Armani suit wearing CEO in VIP table get's led on. The difference is game, not value.

Obviously I wasn't valuable enough to persuade this girl to break her social cues.

You didn't lack value. You either lacked calibration (to aggressive pull or too early, ASD triggered) or you failed to disarm the friends ("he's here only to fuck her and ignoring us", whitekinghting/cockblock triggered).

Every girl will leave her "social persona" under right circumstances. Don't limit yourself to "she'll only do it if I'm high value enough" b/c you will be limiting the opportunities.

[–]SPREAD_THE_LOVE_77914 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

This concept has been on my mind lately. I've been going out for 3 months and I notice the girls that are distant, turn away, talk to their friends for a minute or two during our interaction, those interactions never pan out. I've been wondering, do I bail on those interactions ASAP? I guess I like the challenge but from a purely getting laid standpoint I should probably be bouncing.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

They're distant because they feel nothing. You want to polarize. You want her to either be stoked or say "eww" and turn away (harsh, I know).

You polarize by being yourself on a very honest and vulnerable level. No, I'm talking about being an emotional pussy. I'm talking about saying exactly what you want and acting exactly the way you want.

Go out with the mindset of "either she will love me or hate me." if you're having a vanilla conversation and you're honestly bored, she is too. You're bored because you're communicating through a filter. And what you're subcommunicating to girls is that your real self under that filter isn't good enough. If he was, why wouldn't you show her who he is? Why wouldn't you just fucking say what you want to say?

Stop thinking about rejection as a bad thing. If she rejects you, you wouldn't have enjoyed her company anyway. She just saved you both time and energy.

[–]SPREAD_THE_LOVE_77911 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks this is really solid shit.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

So true,

It's also important to mention that even the "fuck yes!" girl's interest may wane and know when it's time to forget it and move on. Lots of "fuck yes!" girls can be attention whores and just like the feeling of being smitten with a guy and they lose the spark after a few weeks.

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (1 child) | Copy

I'm tripping balls right now so im going have to bookmark this and read it later but it sounds like some good shit. I just wanted to say thank you trp for making some sense out of all this women shit. Much love.

[–]djthiago15 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Guys do the chasing, women do the choosing. You must get the number, and you must go out with her. You'll only know if she likes you after dating her.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

I respect your opinion but I’ve never disagreed more with a post on this sub.

Some of the highest SMV girls are testy and don’t want to show too much interest. A lot of times, this actually makes it more fun. Yea obviously don’t be a bitch and compromise your frame chasing a bitch, but also don’t give up on a girl right away just cause she isn’t all over you.

“Hate to sound sleazy, but tease me. I don’t want it if it’s that easy” - Tupac

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

I agree with you. What I am talking about is that fine line between healthy shit tests ie-"you better not drink too much, you've gotta drive home" and obvious disinterest Ie- not reciprocating kino.

It is the responsibility of each of us to be able to interpret where women are in this spectrum.

Browsing this sub for a while I notice so many guys putting way too much effort into gaming girls that just aren't into them. They need to learn the difference.

Women know when you're "trying to game" them. The effort your spending comes off as hyper investment and reeks of neediness.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Ok I misinterpreted your meaning slightly but we’re still not totally on the same page.

I don’t think a girl not reciprocating your kino is blatant disrespect. With 9s and 10s, they almost never do it right away. That doesn’t mean they aren’t interested and it doesn’t mean you’ll come off as desperate if you keep trying.

But I suppose if you’re happy with the amount of ass you get. then keep doing your thing. I personally think I would score way less if I adopted your mentality. To each his own.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

We're both talking about how hard a guy should "try" to get a girl interested in him. I'm saying, be very careful with how much you invest in a woman, because they're very good at detecting neediness and they find it repulsive.

I'd say a guy shouldn't "try" at all, but simply be who he is to a very honest point and that will either attract or repel women.

[–]Endorsed ContributorJamesSkepp7 points8 points  (5 children) | Copy

In short, what you're advocating for is to behave like a woman. Wait and see who is "stoked for you". Tough luck, you can wait forever b/c it's you who has to have the approach happen and it's you that has to move the interaction forward. If she's not into you, she will simply leave or not go on a date with you. If she's there, the game is on, even if she appears not "1000% into you".

Unless you have "Brad Pitt like SMV", most hot women will not be stoked on you at all, at least initially. EVERY hot girl has hot, high SMV men to choose from, therefore her reaction to you is not dependent on her but on you. IOW what kind of impression will you make on her.

On top of that add the problem that the moment you leave her (end of night, date etc) she immediately has access to other men, women and activities, which take up her time and attention - this means that her attention WILL be divided. This is unavoidable when you two just met. Unless you make a really strong first impression (and/or fuck her properly first time) - there's no gain from doing "she's not into me as much as I would like, next".

Think, I wonder if I like her and I wonder if i'd like to spend time with her?

This should be a default behaviour/thinking. "Is she hot enough for me? Can she keep my interest?"

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (4 children) | Copy

Your problem is clear: be higher value.

A man who has standards is a man who ranks sufficiently among his peers. Without rank, he is a boy. Don't be a boy.

[–]Endorsed ContributorJamesSkepp1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

This works in your local waterhole or average bar, not in the places where I tend to go to.

Go to a high-end nightclub in a big European city with your "rank among your peers" and extract a catwalk model (or whatever currently is the top 1-3 in venue) from a set of high-profile fashion designers, literally unending zounds of male fashion models and other high SMV men.

There's a point in which you will encounter a man who is your "equal peer", then it will take game to decide who's getting the girl b/c otherwise what's the alternative? Give up? Go back home and work on having more social status or more muscles? Sure, you can do that but in that very moment when push comes to the shove, you're automatically assuming your defeat b/c "she wasn't into me enough".

Hottest girls almost never give anything to work with.

[–]3LiveAFTSOV3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Fuck your high end top tier elite status nightclub filled with top 5 look percenters lead by leading Ralph Lauren designers! LOL

Seriously, get some girls from college, or the mall, or the library, or just around my neighborhood/town, or other day to day activities.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I am, by no means saying to not give an honest effort at showing her who you are. Being able to express yourself honestly or run game is essential. It's unspoken it's so essential.

After you've done that, if she isn't interested, that is when to move on.

And places like you describe where appearances, wealth, status etc communicate louder than expression of one's self, having the ability to be authentic is still a prerequisite. In fact, it is probably more important in those superficial places. People crave human experience even more when it's in short supply.

[–]VickVaseline1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

What exactly is the meaning of the title of this book "Models?"

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

A model in the sense of providing a structure which men can use to attract women.

For years I wondered what I had to do or who I "had to be" to attract women. Turns out that was the wrong model. The correct model isn't to be anyone except myself. But, what I had to do is learn to express exactly who I am to the world without any filters. If I am too afraid to tell the world exactly what I'm think or too afraid to take the exact action I desire in the moment, what I'm communicating is that I'm not good enough. I'm not fit. This is anxiety which results in poor flow. Women have evolved to detect this very well. Essentially, I'm rejecting myself every moment and she just has to observe me doing this to know I'm unfit.

If in every moment I boldy present exactly what I feel and think (idgaf if anyone rejects me), what I'm subcommunicating is that I am worthy. I am accepting myself. This is the foundation of self esteem. When a woman observes me, she can tell immediately that I validate who I am and so she unconsciously validates me as well. Or, she might not, and that's ok. There will always be some women who do.

[–]KingRead1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Role models. Stop trying to be someone else, just be yourself. Helps you accept your identity and be comfortable with it. If you're comfortable with who you are, women will also be comfortable with who you are.

[–]daymi0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The book author is saying it's supposed to be a model for a new masculinity - since the old "provider", "bear-fighter" model is obsolete.

[–]StrayEnglishman1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Recently read that authors other book ‘The subtle art of not giving a fuck,’ it was a good read. I’ll try to get that one too.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's also worth noting: STOP FUCKING UGLY WOMEN. You chase over-weight/fat/ugly women, you're validating them, lowering how you're viewed, and ultimately giving them more then you get from them.

[–]DroppinDimes521 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I love "Models" too.

I think the most important part of that section of the book is to polarize her into a fuck yes or a no. Don't let her stay undecided about you. Make an advance or have an out there conversation about hers or your life.

The time you waste getting a girl to make up her mind about you isn't the problem. It's the time you waste wondering whether or not she likes you and trying to make a decision on whether or not to act on your feelings.

[–]nowwhatjoe3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

I certainly agree with this. I’d also add that not chasing is a by-product of abundance mentality. If you get women often there’s no point in chasing one particular woman.

[–]Despacit04 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy

Damn right bruh, im 5'5 and ugly, im indeed the prize.

[–]CallMeHaseo12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy

Better get rich and hop on steroids man

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

Suffer through from a fagget into manhood and you will be the prize.

[–]RedPilledRoaster1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I agree with this. Controversial but true.

[–]martinger[🍰] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Wise words and I agree with this. But for the newbies : how to distinguish proper invest of a woman in you from trying her to make you her orbiter.

Of course it depends on the situation (and most importantly your frame) of woman to proper define whether she is really investing in you or trying to make you her orbiter.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

You literaly can't know until you've got some experience. You have to get rejected and succeed before you can calibrate.

[–]niggers_low_iq1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

This seems highly counter productive, there have been cases where things didnt seem to be good initially but it was a short matter of time before i turned things around.

What's the redpills obsession with not putting in any effort at all? Thinking if you are chad thundercok all the pussy will just come flying towards you like a magnet?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

I'm actually talking about the complete opposite of not putting any effort out.

I'm saying, (or what Mark says) is to approach every interaction as vulnerable as possible. Be exactly who you are as boldly as you can. This polarizes her quickly. She'll either be thrilled w you or turn you down.

After you've expressed who you are to her (gamed her) honestly, if she isn't very interested, move on. But, by all means, take the time show her who you are.

In a sense, this takes WAY more effort because being authentic with the possibility of rejection is heavy shit. But women can tell when you're being honest, and even if they're not interested, they'll almost always appreciate your ability to be authentic.

[–]niggers_low_iq0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

i see..

did you buy the book? are there any free pdfs around?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Audible audio book actually.

[–]fflando1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is exactly what I needed to hear this morning. Rock on, bro.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

The chick I'm currently banging is really into me she constantly gives me compliments and is actually interested in me it feels great. Compared to some girls I've been with before who i had to chase after the difference is like night and day.

[–]ThrowFader5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

deleted What is this?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Back to the ole social calibration. "man, this girl treats me like a rockstar!" but in reality you're not even close to a rock star.. She might be nuts. Or, want to wear yours around her neck.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

For reference the "Fuck Yes or No" refers to making a decision.

No Woman will be "Fuck Yes" when you first meet her.

[–]tolerantman0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Definitely one of the best books I've ever read.

Another great book is "A Billion Wicked Thoughts", a masterpiece

[–]MGTOWtoday0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Part of the problem with this mind set is that every interaction with a woman requires some effort on your part to fuck her. Women are mostly attracted to resources. The trick to fucking them is making you think you can make her richer just by associating with her without actually providing any resources to her. If that doesn't work, then bail.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

If women are into you for your resources, you're doing everything wrong. Women are attracted to masculine frame.

[–]MGTOWtoday0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Sure, but I’m counting masculine frame as a resource. It signals to them that you’re capable of providing protection and provision.

[–]carlito_suave-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy

What if she chases me but not dtf? Then what to do?

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

Then she's not chasing you. She's toying with you.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yes, but lmr type shit tests are normal. The hard part is knowing when she is shit testing your masculinity or if she is toying with you.

[–]WhiteBoyFromHait 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

What a bad mindset. Essentially you’re saying you don’t like to challenge yourself which is the biggest beta move you can make. Get out there, work for her, don’t just slay a dragon because you don’t want the challenge of going after a queen.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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