The words that I'm about to write are a core foundation of masculinity, they are a part of the line that separates men from women. This is an art that must be practiced, and in do time you will reap it's benefits.
Let me tell you, a lot of men these days are straight up gay, really. They suck this world's dick & swallow, when it should be the other way arround. You're a slave to the situation and have the emotional strength/stability of a bitch on her cycle. Here's a key ability that a lot of us are missing today.
I know I always got pissed off when my father told me this. I'd fall out of a tree and get the wind knocked out of me, "suffer in silence" is what I got. My girlfriend cheats on me and goes with another man "suffer in silence". I have to a lot of chores to do that will take all fucking day, "suffer in silence". I'm about to get my ass whipped for setting stuff on fire when I was told not to, "Turn around and suffer in silence". I didn't know until now that I was being groomed into an emotional stronghouse.
The very act of complaining or telling someone your problems is weakness, for the mere fact that you're trying to let someone else hold the emotional burden you have. That's all complaining is, a cry for help or relief from an outside source other than yourself.
Suffering in Silence goes hand in hand with being tough. It's being strong for others in the midst of soul crippling pain. It's carrying your own weight and getting the job done.
Men are productive & logical (At least a few of you still are) and we shouldn't have time for things that are counterproductive like complaining/crying. It gets nothing done, it solves no problem. Complaining is what women do, because most the time they don't have the physical capability to get shit done themselves.
To sum this up, here's one of the greatest quotes from TWD for yall to keep in mind.
"If you have to eat shit, best not to nibble. 'Bite, chew, swallow, repeat. goes quicker."
“I’ll handle it” is the natural follow up.
Well stated. Great post OP.
"I'll handle it" is what you say to others; "suffer in silence" is what you say to yourself.
To say "suffer in silence" creates a negative frame. One that characterizes you as a loser and a power-less passive agent who has to accept his fate of receiving shit from life.
Words matter. How you frame a situation matters.
AS YOU THINK, SO SHALL YOU BECOME.
Unsuspecting newbies repeating this phrase don't have the neccessary mindset foundations to attach the unsaid additional meanings that the REST OF STOICISM covers. They are just gonna end up hurting their psyche instead.
This post is a small small part of stoicism. Very readily appliable but for god's sake,
READ THE REST
"Embrace the Suck" = positive frame
I personally like the "this is tough but I'm tougher". A bit longer, but positive
"Climb a mountain. Tell no one."
Yes to this. OP’s general sentiments are right, but his words are wrong.
Here are some alternatives:
“Bring It On” from the book called “The Tools”
“The Obstacle Is The Way” from the book on Stoicism by the same name
“Obstacles Make Me Stronger” or OMMS acronym pronounced like ohms
“I Eat Obstacles Like Energy Bars”
In any case, “suffer” is the wrong choice. Remember the quote that “pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.”
The words you choose should frame it correctly in your mind so you perceive the opportunities in your struggle. You can see clearly the silver lining, which may only be that you get to build more perseverance and project more power.
Your words must be a positive reflection and a self affirmation that you are confidently and even enthusiastically overcoming the temporary situation or setback, while simultaneously building new strength and projecting even more power.
TLDR; Frame it and perceive it as an opportunity. Then crush it as you grow stronger and more powerful.
Core aspect of self-confidence. - "the feeling or belief that one can rely on someone or something"
Also a core aspect of being a well balanced human: knowing when to share, to whom to share and HOW MUCH to share of your problems.
Sharing too much to people who don't care is bad, it only drives people away and makes you look weak.
Sharing with people you trust -- that's what true friends are for.
Every time I catch myself complaining about something I use something like "but I'll be okay and I'll handle it".
Definitely don't overshare your burdens, as too many "modern" men tend to do, because most people could care less.
On the other hand I've known too many good men who self medicated with drugs and alcohol, abused others and/or attempted suicide because they kept their emotional pain bottled up.
For minor discomfort, OP is spot on. The right thing to do is to just deal with it.
For deep emotional pain, the right approach is to not suffer in silence but share your emotional pain with a trusted, sympathetic male friend or a therapist who can help you work through it properly.
The term is "couldn't care less". If someone could care less, that means that they care a measurable amount, but fuck it, I couldn't care less if you take my advice or not.
Thanks for pointing this out, grinds my gears lol
Normally I hate grammar nazi's but this one....have up vote and I'll go do some reps
While we're at it... Hey OP, it's "in due time" not "in do time"
I'm oaky wtih mispsellnigs.
"I'm a phonetic speller" :) yw
That's an interesting thing to say. In order to value my upvotes as a commodity, and make sure I dole them out with more thought, I'm going to do an extra set for every upvote I give on this sub.
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women - and, in that endeavor, laziness will not do."
And hammering them with logic also does not work.
"Could care less" is an oft used phrase, which should settle all arguments. If it's used, it's the language.
I THINK YOU MEANT couldn't care less
I AM A BOTbeepboop!
it doesn't matter if she cums, stays, lays or prays. Whatever happens your toes are still tappin. aha
I read that it actually is "could", but it's meant to be sarcastic.
thanks man. This happens evry so often
People are using this phrase incorrectly and apathetic to think critically about what words are coming out of their own mouths, that is why.
The correct way it is said goes "I couldn't care less."
I say “look, i could care less” about something, to imply im doing them a favor by caring at all
I couldn't care less what you say or imply
I could care less about replying to you, but i suppose its important to you
No, the term is “could care less.” You care so little you can’t even be bothered to express your apathy correctly.
No, it isn't, you edgy, sarcastic fucking retard. https://youtu.be/om7O0MFkmpw?t=1m13s
I could care less what you think
You really shouldn't care what people on the internet say, even if they are right
The problem with therapists is that unless you know them well enough you can never be sure whether they place your well-being or your money as their priority.
I could never bring myself to confide in someone who doesn't have my trust, regardless of their profession.
Exactly, you'd be surprised how many people actually love it when things aren't going your way in life. Some people thrive off of destruction, people’s misery, pain, and more. It is what makes them happy. Their moral compass has a different north than a person that wants to see the world succeed. It could be caused by a mental illness, an ideology that is taught to the person, an intense hatred, an events that made them this way, and more.
Great comment. Many psychological books say that you have to release that emotional charge whether it's positive or negative. With positive it is easier cause you just laugh to release that emotion, while with negative you won't just shout in the street or start punching something. Gym is the best to discharge, it also adds to your masculinity.
I definitely spent a good chunk of my 20s in therapy. Once I learned healthy living and perspective, then and only then did the aforementioned advice become sage. For anyone here who had an abusive upbringing, your mental rage is not the same as those from a happy home with a simple upbringing. Learn to recognize the difference.
Deep emotional pain can be resolved only within yourself. Shit, I had very shitty life which would result in suicide with many other people..surviving a war, parents divorced, poverty, shitty jobs, away job..list goes on. I NEVER shared pain with anyone, resolved it all and i am thankful for life that made me strong.
The best advice someone can give you anyway is "deal with it", except therapists but even then in the end, you will resolve it alone.
For small things, and guys who bitch about small things, I will not even adress it. Men are not doing it, boys do, period, no discussion.
Sure. As a man, you have to own your struggles and ultimately resolve emotional pain yourself, but most men would benefit from having someone to vent to every once in a while, talk through problems and help figure out solutions. We should do the same for other men because it helps to put our own problems into proper perspective. No man is an island and none of us have all of the answers.
This. My friends of olden days have all drifted off. My brother cannot handle shit, so, I can't lay anything on him. Nobody gives a shit. And, it has made me stronger.
Back in the day, I actually believed that nonsense about friends, bros, to be specific, were there to share stuff with, and the true blue ones would have your back and listen to your broken heart. Fuck that! They don't want to hear it, because they all want strong friends; they have their own children, they don't need one to be drinking with-they need wingmen!
One of the big and horrible myths that men have to suffer with is to believe that horseshit about "men keeping it bottled up" and how that is allegedly hurtful. Well, men may need to let it out somehow, but, whining to the bros does nothing positive. Lift, cry in private, go out on a bender...just, well, suffer in silence!
HOWEVER: I will concede that there may be a need for a therapist under 2 circumstances
When you are the kind of person who does not have coping skills. Many people are strong, they just need mechanisms, skills and advice on how to cope, and
When an illness is clinical, needing medication, etc...
Lol, none of you fruits have every been friends with, or could even identify a good man. That's why you adhere to such a corny little self-pitying philosophy.
You are too cowardly to even use a proper reddit account to troll. Fuck off out of here.
I'll one up OP
Surrender to the suffering.
Not only does the world not care to hear you bitch and moan but you don't even need to have play the victim quietly in your head in the first place.
OP examples
My girlfriend cheated....Please bish..she was never yours and its to be expected that romantic relationships do all come to an end. Dont expect false promises and there is no suffering over imaginary soulmates.
Chores to do? Ask yourself why you are doing them. Do they serve your mission? Great! Do em with a smile. Do they serve another? Release yourself from the bondage of servitude and dont do another's chores.
The suffering feeling is there to alert you to retake control.
I like the concept but you pushed it a little way too far. Some situations requires a reaction and hopefully you are smart enough to do the right reaction.
I think he means that you have to deal it yourself, but shouldnt talk to others about it.
Can you give me an example of such a situation that requires complaining in an unproductive manner?
Well when you frame the question like that...
I can think of situations where the potential to solve relies on complaining. I have a neighbor who blasts the bass in his stereo. I can't just go beat the crap out of the guy or else i would. I have to escalate within the system which means complaining to my landlord, and if that doesn't work complaining to police. In addition, if I am not knowledgeable about what the best course of action is i can detail my situation to others i am close to to brainstorm. You can call it complaining. Or you can call it an unavoidable and key aspect of problem solving.
I would say there is a spectrum of usefulness to talking with others about when a certain situation is harmful. Dangerous to speak in absolutes unless all defintions are clearly defined.
In that situation, I would first go to the neighbor myself and ask him if he wouldn't mind turning his music down. If he tells me to fuck off, I'd then go to the landlord. This isn't complaining, this is productive and getting the job done. Now crying over spilled milk or something you can't change is a different story.
See I'm more opposite I take a zen approach and train myself to not let it get to me. Why would I let that person dictate how I feel and react with their music? I'm now to the point where I can sleep through most sounds that would annoy people.
I used to get annoyed at people chewing loudly or whistling (whistling I noticed a lot of males did it on purpose to annoy people make you react to their state) now I don't react, in fact sometimes when someones calling me in a commanding way I pretend not to hear it lol making them call me again, until I slowly unreactively turn. That's right bitch you gotta work for my attention
you definitely sound like a zen dude. everyone has limits though. perhaps with regard to sound my limits are easier to reach since i have tinnitus which bass sounds tend to exacerbate. but everyone will break when exposed to an unwanted stimulus over time. it just depends on how long the time interval is and how intense the stimulus is.
Well yea if it's going to cause actual harm then escalate it to landlords/authorities. My general statement is raising the bar for what you can tolerate without causing harm. Kind of like for it to even be worth your attention it has to be really important/threatening
Like that image of the alpha lion just sitting there unaffected by all the hyenas, beta lions trying to taunt him. He doesn't give them attention or let it affect him, they are nothing to him
This.
Remaining “in the middle” as I call it, allows you to be in control of your emotions, and, subsequently, your actions. If a person is doing something you don’t like, your emotions are in your control, while their actions aren’t. When people’s actions don’t get to you, you always come out on top.
Internal locus of control.
Truly, these are the words of a wise sage that has seen many winters.
I affect the aristocratic pose whenever I feel emotions like that bubbling up inside me.
I ask myself "would a king, prince, or duke bother himself with such a petty matter?"
For example, if it's some extra money you have to pay, just pay it, unless it would cause you serious difficulty. I'll pay an extra £5 to not look like a cheapskate.
Ties into a few of the Laws of Power.
I think there’s a big difference between straight up candor and bitching. If you must criticise, do it constructively; if you really must just say ‘fuck you!,’ you must be able to explain your reasoning, otherwise it’s nothing more than a pointless grunt, an uncontrolled outburst of emotion. Finding solutions is always more productive than finding people to blame.
Man, this is wisdom.
It is so important to understand the difference between constructive observation/monitoring, and plain old bitching for the sake of releasing an emotional overload. A lot of people go through bouts of emotional overloads and they say any and everything they feel is right, instead of objective and constructive statements that accomplish specific things.
Well said, man.
That's not complaining, it's reporting.
Complaining would be: callin' ur BFF 'cuz ur neibors muzic is to loud 'n u want a shoulder to complain on.
Only with the former does the problem get solved. The latter does nothing productive.
My apartment building's main electric breaker-box lock went missing. There's no greater satisfaction than cutting power to some loud jerk and making them bundle up and hike downstairs in the cold to flip their main.
Playing off your "I can't just go beat the crap out of the guy" statement, one option would be tripping the breaker, necessitating his trip outdoors, and hiding behind a corner with the ball bat. THWACCK! Nite-nite.
There are no situations that require it, just ignore his post
Give me a good example, and I'll think about deleting this post.
That's an awfully defensive way to frame the question...
// , Your post unfairly indicted all complaints. You made no qualifications of "suffer in silence".
I guess it's too much to ask users of this forum to learn logic or even a cargo-cult approach to a dialectic
// , Did you read Rollo's latest post on rationalmale.com? Your post points out something we need, but then pretends we need it all the time.
I'm no Christian, but the opening lines of Ecclesiastes' third chapter speak to the spirit of this forum:
Your post's content indicts all complaints. But what about the sober, actionable, complaints to people who have explicitly solicited complaints? You only need these to get your job done, but you want them to be able to feel like you're in control.
You ever run a business? If you had a customer, would you want them never to complain to you if you sent them the wrong order?
The literal and implied meaning of this "Suffer in silence" slogan indicts legitimate productive communication along with unproductive communication. The damned part is as follows:
Emphasis is mine.
This does not merely imply that all or most complaints are counterproductive. OP literally states that. Twice.
Put yourself in the shoes of a legitimate authority figure, say, a squad leader, software developer, or a highly trained medical specialist.
Do you REALLY want your soldiers, users, or patients to "suffer in silence"?
No, because here's what happens if you apply the "suffer in silence" slogan to these kinds of situations:
This post should be about a skill to cultivate and apply where appropriate, not "Complaining is what women do" or some rule for life.
1) This particular "suffer in silence" example is actually extremely common, annoying, and there are entire companies whose business model is to help developers get users to complain.
I admit, I didn't write this post in an understandable way. I'm not against complaining, I'm against unnecessary bitching that solves nothing. If I'm under fire in a foreign country, you bet your ass I'm gonna get on the radio and scream for air support. I like your reference to Ecclesiastes, that's one of my favorite Books. There is a time to suck it up, and there are also times to pour yourself out for the greater good.
// , Also keep in mind that this "suffer in silence" idea means it'd be time to remove the Rant flair for posts.
no, this means, don't bitch out in public. if its anonymous, it's diff
// , Don't I know it. I have about 20 different VPNs, orbot, TAILS, & The Onion Router.
What's with the "// ," in front of your comments?
Hey this is totally off topic, but what's with the double slashes and comma at the beginning of your comments? I've seen it for some time and never got it.
Silly man, rants are for bitches
Repression is for bitches. Rants are great as long as you move on after you are done with them.
I don't see how so many people are forcing an absolutist interpretation of what--in the sense you actually intended--is great advice.
The time to suck it up and drive on is whenever you possibly can, and the time to confide in a friend is when you really can't be silent. It's just like having a spotter in the gym.
I told me boss about my alcoholism, and cried, but I did it out of accountability. It is one of the 12 steps of the program. I hope your dad wasn't an alcoholic.
There is a difference between notifying someone of a problem so that it can be fixed and bringing a problem up over and over for the sole purpose of temporary emotional relief.
// , And that difference is nowhere mentioned in this trite "suck it up" post.
The whole thing's reminiscent of this whole "shut up and man up" idiocy being rammed down our eyes by idiot self-contradicting feminists.
Just read to the point where you stated the main three words.
STRONGLY DISAGREE.
Suffering in silence is like what other commenter's have mentioned, leads to suicide.
Family/male friends/teacher's (yes, can be women but you'd have to calibrate whether she'd respond positively).
We are human, men are not emotionless rocks. Everybody has breaking points.
Most times, people don't even vent so that the other person give's them a solution, sometimes a response as simple as "I understand, that sucks really man, hope things start looking up" is enough to make you feel better.
Fuck man, sometimes the advice here can be so fucking retarded. And everybody follow's like a bunch of fucking sheep.
Aren't you motherfuckers suppose to be Alpha males?
How about thinking independently of what this subreddit tells you on how to navigate your life? Sounds Alpha enough for ya?
I would strongly have to disagree with this. I have actually been through clinical depression and suicidal thoughts about 10 years ago. Everything had gone wrong in my life and I frankly saw no other way out but to end it all.
I somehow got into therapy and I can honestly say that the approach of being emotional and talking about my problems and feelings did absolutely nothing to help me. Nada.
In fact, this type of therapy forced me to dwell and focus on my problems and my negativity to the point where it became an inescapable presence in my life. It actually made things worse.
You know how I got out of clinical depression? I had to swallow the bitter pill that nobody truly cares if you live or die. Nobody will ever truly empathize or care about your problems like you yourself. Therapists are just doing a job, for money, like everybody else. I had to live for myself and take my life into my own hands.
The idea that I could actually CHANGE the things that depressed me is what got me out. Instead of talking and complaining about problems, I had to shut up and DO something about them to feel better.
So I made progress in tiny, small steps. Every thing I could accomplish by myself was a victory that boosted my self esteem and my will to live.
Getting out of bed before 4PM used to be impossible for me. I celebrated the first time I managed to do it. That was my biggest accomplishment in YEARS back then. Can you imagine? I went from that to running my own business and being quite confident and successful in life.
All because I stopped letting my feelings determine my actions. All because I stopped talking about my problems and actually started solved them. I have never felt better and there is no way I would ever think of committing suicide again.
I realize that this might not be the same for everyone, and that some people might actually find the touchy-feely "let's talk about it" approach helpful, but I can honestly say that it would have killed me.
If you're dealing with suicidal thoughts, please consider this. Don't let any therapist trap you into a cycle of negativity. If you feel like you're not making progress, you need to be DOING thing instead of TALKING about things. You need to go outside, get some sunshine, get moving.
Say that to someone with severe PTSD. I’m sorry, but treatment is sometimes necessary along with pharmaceutical intervention. I have a friend (veteran) I had to fly to my house because he hadn’t slept in four days and was starting to deteriorate and I had to pretty much force him when he got here to take anti-anxiety meds to get him to finally sleep. He’s one of those guys who normally “suffers in silence “ and I thank god he said something that day or I know he would be dead right now. He still refuses to get help though (wouldn’t be manly) and instead self medicates with alcohol. We’re working on convincing him to get help but it’s posts like this one that lead to people like him and others who really do have something serious going on from getting it.
You are using your one example and using that as evidence to bottle things up when it clearly will just plainly not work for everyone.
Do you want to know how I know that bottling things up isn't good? I've also dealt with depression. Not just your come and go sad mood type of depression. Debilitating, can't get out of bed, suicidal thoughts daily type of depression. It all hit a breaking point when my girlfriend at the time broke up with me. Called the suicide hotline and they didn't give a shit. I had no friends at the time so didn't open up to anyone. I knew my family wouldn't give a shit so I didn't tell them.
So I just bottled it up and thought nobody gave a fuck. That is until I got a new job. Up until that point I was a loner piece of shit with bad social skills. My new job though forced me to interact with people and my coworkers became my new best friends that I still talk to this day.
One of my coworkers hinted at having depression and anxiety and I opened up to him about my issues as well and we both got super close after that. I'd consider him one of my best friends. My mental health improved drastically.
You need to form more social connections. The fact that you are saying this reflects that you have poor family/social support. Seriously though man if you look at your statement without the bias that you've attached to it. It's clearly just plain wrong. In your situation in may seem like that because like I said, this statement is a reflection that you may have poor social/family support (don't worry I've been there, it's possible to get out of it). In order to get out of it you need to put yourself out there while working on yourself. Can fucking guarantee you this attitude that nobody gives a fuck about you will be the number one thing holding you back from forming strong healthy social connections. I don't even have a lot of friends, just 2-3 coworkers that I've become incredibly close with and that alone helps a lot with issues.
Why does it have to be touchy feely? Like I said in my original comment, sometimes knowing that someone understands and hopes things improve is enough to feel better. My friend broke up with his girlfriend and I knew how bad it can effect you emotionally so I assured him things would get better whenever he told me he doesn't feel his life is worth living anymore and let him know he can call me if he wants to hang out or anything. I cared because he is my friend and he has done the same exact thing for me before.
Your one experience does not resemble the millions of cases of suicide due to repressing emotions. The BIGGEST and I mean BIGGEST variable that comes into play when opening up, is knowing whether the person your opening up to will genuinely give a shit/respond positively. Yes, this DOES exist. That is why you need to have trusted teachers/family members/friends to turn to that you know will support you.
All bottling things up did was deteriorate my mental health. There is a biological need to socialize. To feel connected to other people. You have no control over this. Suffer in silence goes directly against the biological need for human support. You can say all you want that you don't need it, but just look at your post, saying things like nobody truly cares if you live or die. Does that sound like a healthy mindset?
Go ahead and keep acting like you do not need social support if you want. You cannot turn off this biological need. If you are so focused on doing things rather than talking about things, I would first suggest fixing your mindset, and putting yourself out there to get a few close trusted friends that you can turn to for support when you need it.
Don't think nobody gives a shit man. I cared enough to respond to your comment because I know how bad isolation and depression can be. Take things one day at a time. That is what you do with depression. I'm just a stranger on reddit and I'm genuinely saying that I hope that you are able to overcome your struggle with depression.
Also, if you ever do have another depressive episode I would recommend CBT. It’s less touchy-feely and more about re-wiring your brain. It’s future oriented. Just something to keep in mind if it ever happens again and just “Doing it” doesn’t seem to be working this time.
This post made me pissed off for a reason. Widely accepted and upvoted because it shows them the Fairy Tale masculinity they have been taught as kids. Men are strong, unbreakable. 'Suck it up'. Then they suck it up, repress it, kill themselves. I hate the post with a passion.
I see some appeal to it, but its like a rusty knife for a scalpel. This undefined it will do more harm than good. LIVE OUT all your pain, hate, feelings. Let em flow. Do not repress them. YOU ARE EVEN ALLOWED TO CRY AS A MAN. ACCEPT IT. The truth beneath the post is, that 'do not complain' is true. That means getting stuck in the victim role and stagnating. Thats bad.
Accept > react (complain for a moment, cry, scream, be mad, be whatever > solve it)
OP wants to remove the react from this. Which is called repression. Which will harm you in the long run. So yeah lurking sheep, please form your own opinion and maybe google repression or some shit to get the bigger picture.
And this is why we have a stigma around mental health, due to ignorant men like our fathers. Everything in moderation.
man its not the time of our fathers its today and feminism calls men toxic and constantly trying get us to act like them. wake up
See the everything in moderation part ? Read it again. I was never asleep nor did I need to be woken up. Some people have this red pill shit naturally come to them.
This sounds way too much like tolerating bullshit without speaking your mind. To be invisible. To subdue your feelings. Fuck that.
Whoever told you that is a moron. You’re wrongfully accused and you’re supposed to sit down and shut up?
Emotions can be a big force in your life if you use them the right way. Emotions are what make you human, and if you think women don’t like emotional men you’re mistaken. What they (and people in general) don’t like is if you let emotions guide your actions, or if you get indecisive because you’re having a bad day— letting your mood get the better of you.
I agree with you to stand up for yourself.
But i think his point is not to be a complainer
Yup, standing up for yourself and not being a whiny bitch who needs emotional support from a woman are not the same thing.
If you need support get it from a role male model. And if you really just want to whine about shit do it to a therapist.
"Anybody can become angry - that is easy, but to be angry with the right person and to the right degree and at the right time and for the right purpose, and in the right way - that is not within everybody's power and is not easy." - Aristotle
Whether we realize it or not, emotions are the guiding force of all our actions, and are ultimately the only source of value in life. Suffering is an obvious signal of the body that something is wrong. Now I mean suffering, not necessarily pain, which can be something enjoyable in a context of challenge, but suffering which is when the mind or body are deteriorating. It seems that many "red pill" advocates are trying to be hard asses to the extreme, and I would say extremism in anything is dangerous and unhealthy. If you know what you love, you will pay the price for it happily, and not have to vomit negativity when things go don't go your way, its the understood contract of life, we can end it whenever we want. If you don't know what you love and you're suffering, its time to take a step back and do some deep reflection, the red pill is only a foundation for a more fulfilling life, really crafted so girls don't fuck it up. Now that i say that, it sounds silly, but if I have learned anything from RP, its how to question the premises of my thoughts and actions. Creating a life motto can really be dangerous, and results in this extremism and rigid behavior, resulting in often thoughtless acceptance of amoral behavior, in this case, that being a man entails taking life's cock up the ass because that's our job. Sounds a bit like the feminine imperative at work..
Evidently, you would, in fact, say that. Some antonyms of extremism used in the context: apathy, doubt, indifference, disinterest, unenthusiasm. To forge one's self into the best self we can be absolutely requires elements of extremism in every area in which we endeavor. That's what giving 110% is--- an extreme effort. The rewards for such efforts don't lie in the goals they attain. They lie in becoming the type of man who expects such commitment from himself... and delivers it. When you know that that's the kind of man you are, you are confident that you will respond to any exigency with whatever is required to meet it: courage, strength, will, sagacity, whatever.
Because life is not scripted but an adventure, where outcomes are uncertain, we won't always be successful, in spite of our extreme efforts. When that happens, we accept our lot stoically. We suffer in silence. That was the meaning behind the archaic phrase, "to take it like a man."
And you're right about one thing: being a man does entail taking life's cock up the ass, because that truly is our job. This is not a result of some "feminine imperative at work" but rather a result of how our species adapted to the far-flung environments into which we have placed ourselves. We did the dangerous jobs, hunting huge mammals, putting ourselves at risk on the oceans to bring home fish, fighting predators who would threaten our clans. Women focused on nurturing the next generation until they were ready to take on adult roles themselves. And though we no longer live in caves, these biological imperatives still inform our behavior--- or would, if the complexities of modern life hadn't obscured the nature and importance of our roles. That's what's led us to the ridiculous condition in which we are today, where there needs to be a movement called "The Red Pill" to remind males of the life principles which have been obscured.
As Martin Luther King, Jr., said, "The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." Character is forged in adversity. How we meet such adversity, how we respond to it, determines what type of man we are. That doesn't happen in circumstances that can't be described as "extreme."
Life motto: ECCE HOMO
I was with you until the misogyny kicked in
?? If your referencing the "so girls don't fuck it up", that is not misogynist. It's me pointing out the origin of red pill, which is based upon inter-sexual social dynamics, which demonstrates that guys fuck themselves up over girls, which I don't think anyone would argue against..
// , How is it misogynistic to craft a life that girls can't fuck up?
Wouldn't you advise the same to women? To craft a life such that men don't fuck it up?
And misogyny means political incorrectness, not factual incorrectness.
No I wouldn't, I wouldn't make the distinction between men and women in this case, and I would not advise people to craft their life focusing on other people's perceived influence on it ('fucking it up').
I'm all about political incorrectness, but misogyny is not about that, misogyny is about thinking women are inferior to men. Women are different then men, and women have as many obstacles and troubles in their life as men.
Again, I fail to see how the mere fact that something is misogynistic makes it factually incorrect. Calling something misogynistic does not address the facts.
Consider most of the cases in which you have to make a quick, objective decision about the superiority or inferiority of someone.
This post is about unproductive complaining, not being a robot with no emotion. There are situations where you have to stand up In a stern way, but there is never a situation that requires you to whine like a baby. Just like now, I think your comment completely misses the point of my post. I could call you a meany bitch and say you don't know shit, or I can meet your logic with my own logic in a productive manner.
Yeah thought as much, but I think your post is unclear, and some examples you're giving are pretty bad, like the one I quoted.
When that happens, do you consider that maybe the point of your post wasn't clear?
Not really, I'm a bit narcissistic and think everybody understands things like I do. That's something I have to work on.
Narcissism exists on a spectrum and a certain amount of narcissism is healthy. Your ability to reflect on this is quite telling in a positive way.
With regards to your post I agree completely. A couple of times in my life I've battled depression/ptsd. Both times I was able to recover not because others listened to my woe as me bullshit, but because I decided to own my shit and fix it for myself.
For me, the more I would wallow in negativity the worse I would be. Once I realized /remembered I have the power to change my world, my thoughts, my emotions everything got better.
// , Yeah, I have the same problem. I'll usually set aside a publication or story for a time, be it a few minutes to a few days, and try to re-read it with the eyes of someone else. Massive editing for clarity, repetition, and qualification (e.g. "but only sometimes!") ensues.
// , You might feel that this post is about unproductive complaining.
But the literal meaning of the words that you have strung together is clear.
I get it. Translating your inner dialogue into words is difficult.
There is nothing wrong with occasional venting.
Case in point I had a really shitty week in Laos trying to get education visa for Thailand. Didn't take my debit card and was scrambling for cash, cancelled flights, embassy delays, lost £250, you get the picture.
Me and my friends have a group chat and I needed help (Western Union).. and, yes, I also vented quite a bit after the third day of nothing but bad luck. Nothing wrong with that. Just make sure you vent in the right direction. Talk to friends, write it in a journal. Better yet, transform the energy and go to the gym, or, instead of suffering in silence, sit in silence and meditate.
While I can agree it doesn't achieve much by venting to others, be sure you don't suppress your feelings when you choose to suffer in silence. Also, if all the subscribers here suffered in silence, we wouldn't have a forum! Lot of mother fuckers out there need help and they aren't going to get anywhere suffering in silence.
Nothing wrong with asking a friend for help, people here that post on the red pill are breaking silence in a productive manner and are gaining new strength from doing so. My post is against unproductive complaining
Asking a friend for help is different that whining to that friend about why his help is needed.
"I've had such a horrible week!"
"Oh, you poor baby! What happened?"
"Well...."
Get out the tampons.
Yeh, ok, I think I understand where you're coming from. But let's stop pretending we're all infallible machines. Whether you vent, or indulge in vices or what, you are weak in some regard. Everybody is.
// , Your intent was to write a post against unproductive complaining.
You did not achieve this. And now we're complaining about that. :)
But seriously if we followed the content of your post, rather than the meaning you intended, we wouldn't have TRP.
Asking a friend to help you with Western Union is productive. Whining to them about your bad luck and what a shitty week you had is just weak. You chose not to Suffer In Silence. It appears the you don't understand the purpose of learning to suffer in silence. Your "occasional venting" robs you of the opportunity of talking with your Strongest Self in your thoughts. "Jeez, what a fucked week this has been! But... well, I got through it. And it could've been worse. Hell, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, right?? Anyway, I handled it. Got the job done in spite of the circumstances. You know what? I'm fuckin all right!"
Well, I would have loved to have seen you go through what I went through and see how you responded. Believe me, I am more than capable of suffering in silence. I handled it pretty well the first few days, but sometimes the world just kicks you in the balls day after day and eventually you start to crack... and, oh how very weak, do a little venting to a facebook group between you and your friends. Come on. Stop it.
Don't suffer in silence..... FIX IT in silence.
Since you are endorsed and i've read alot of good stuff from you (if i remember right, read alot)... why not FIX it as loud or silent as you feel like it.
Why repress pain and suffering? Why not live it out, let it flow through you and fix stuff instead of complaining? Repression from all i've learned sounds so backswards and harmful.
Ok, I think I see your point.
The problem isn't being loud about what you are doing, the problem is complaining. Noone likes a whiner.
The thing that complainers never understand: everyone else has problems too. I sit there listening to people complain about their problems, and I think "I've got problems too, so what's so super fucking special about you that I have to listen to yours?"
People who complain are solipsistic and SELFISH. They are trying to get other people to fix them.
It's unattractive and it's the opposite of handling your shit.
In conclusion: be loud about what you DO, but don't complain about your suffering or your problems.
I guess we have the same idea then/we agree. Let your emotions/pain flow. Dont get stuck complaining and stagnate however. Take action.
This is horrible advice. While people don't want to hear your whining, they often respect your ability to be bluntly honest about your situation & what you're doing to improve it.
Telling men to suffer in silence just reinforces what has led to men being roughly 80% of suicides.
I'm not against opening up and receiving help/support from friends. It's very productive to let others know what's going on so they can help you out.
// , Maaaaaybe you should edit this one.
I think he is right. Depending on others and laying your burdens on others is almost never good. Almost every problem people would complain about can be fixed by themselves:
There are exceptions like needing advice about a specific field a friend knows a lot about and asking their opinion but that is not what this post is about. This post is about complaining like a bitch and asking for emotional support for things that your friends cannot fix for you. If you friends can't fix it then you are just venting.
// , With you on this, and our culture has more need of the "suffer in silence" mentality. But I'm saying that a balance of complaining and action CAN BE FRIENDS.
This post completely ignores the exceptions you mentioned. Plus, you might never know that a friend knows a lot about something.
There are even cases where your friends knowing about your problems can lead to better outcomes, as long as you are willing to seriously consider your friends' actions or advice on your behalf. Complaining and action CAN BE FRIENDS:
I did this (complained about how I never seemed to gain muscle). My friends referred me to their lifting friends, and gave me invitations to the gym. Which I accepted.
"Hey, I remember from last week you were saying you hated your job. I assume you've been looking, so I shared your contact info with a friend who's a hiring manager."
My mild, very occasional sarcasm to friends about annoying parts of my job actually lead to some Bitcoin work, since a friend piped in about a startup of his.
Hm. Yeah, this is a case where "suffer in silence" is the best way to go. Unless your friends have some puppies for you, I guess.
Honest complaining among people who take action upon complaints results in better solutions than if there was no complaining at all.
EDIT: No one is saying that women will find complaining or ANY sympathy attractive. This is strictly for men where you have a history of helping each other and whom you trust, in moderation.
I've read through your response and I think your mind is in a different place than mine. I cannot see anything I say getting through to you on this topic. You are just looking for ways that things could work out and not all the ways it cannot. I remember an old post on here about a guy who texted a plate that he was going to a buddies funeral and how the plate saw that as weakness and they never slept together again. I wish I could remember the post.
Just because you friend might be nice and refer you to a gym or a job contact does not mean that is a good enough excuse to walk around dumping baggage on people. It's not. It just is not good enough. No way the positive possibilities outweigh the negatives and the frame lost. Whining about things is weak frame.
// , Then suffer in silence, and suffer you shall.
You're taking his words to the extreme. Pay attention to every example OP gave, they are relatively minor inconveniences.
If a man truely has emotional problems, they should seek help just like anyone else. "Don't bitch about the small things" might be a better way to phrase this post.
No. That is liberal snowflake bullshit rethoric. If that is true, why did suicide rates gone up in recent years, when men were encouraged more and more to 'open up' and talk more about their feelings? Men were always told to man up and not act like a little bitch. Only recently men started to act like women, and no wonder suicides went up.
Edit: also, does it hurt when you pull statistics out of your ass?
Actually, that is a very good point.
Fair call, personally I enjoy being blunt & honest about my life, so opening up feels productive to me. To be clear though, I flat out refuse to be a victim in any situation, it's more a case of "X happened, if I do nothing this will fucking suck, I'm considering Y & Z, what do you think?"
It's definitely weakness though, it's me seeking validation for my thought process. Still, sometimes people raise points I haven't considered, so I re-evaluate, making the exercise valuable.
great post, dude. "suffering in silence," and "having the ability to keep your mouth shut" are two very important concepts that most guys miss nowadays.
it's NOT being without emotion. it's about NOT being a whiny little bitch every time things (jobs, women, tasks) don't go your way.
if your new puppy gets mauled by a coyote, well, you express your emotions. if you lose your keys, you don't start crying like a bitch and blaming other people.
I don't see anything great in this post and nothing new anyway. OP you don't see the forest for the trees nor you seem to be aware of how the emotional body works.
Also seeing how many retards upvoted this shit makes me wonder about what this sub has become.
One thing is saying that you don't have to show your emotions, which I agree, the other thing is to say that you have to suffer in silence.
When you suffer first of all you have to understand why the thing makes you suffer in the first place. All events are basically neutral, emotional suffering comes always from your belief system aka your ego.
Every negative feeling has some energy with it (the event triggers one of your beliefs). If you suffer in silence what you are doing is you repress or suppress that negative energy.
What then happens is that another event will happen to remind you of your negative belief, more negative energy suppressed and more bad shit. This is the reason for several chronic illnesses or, if the energy is too much, drug abuse, depression, aggressive behavior, suicide and so on.
The 4 words that would change your life would be instead: learn to let go.
And if you don't know shit study or ask for help instead of writing bullshit just to collect likes from retards.
And what do you say to a man contemplating suicide?
this is a thing to say to yourself. not your friend
Not setting stuff on fire is a very important lesson for children to learn.
Well written, in general.
I've realized over the years that most people don't give a fuck about your problems. Sometimes because they have their own shit to deal with, other times because they truly don't give a fuck. There's a difference between crying because someone ate the last piece of pizza and crying because your uncle suffered a massive heart attack and dropped dead.
You can cry and be upset, but by yourself. Hence suffer in silence. You work through shit on your own. It builds you up, makes you stronger. Your girl cheated on you? Don't suffer in a bottle. You go out and try to get hotter chicks.
All women say they want a man to be vulnerable until you actually open up to them and they get turned off because their so called rock is actually human and has emotions and they can't handle that because they're supposed to be the one to get upset. You can get upset, but you do it alone. Suffer in silence, cry, get it out, whatever. Then you come back as normal.
This makes me think of a time when I was at the barbershop. A father was watching his young son squirm and complain as the son was getting his haircut.
What his dad said got my attention. The dad said to his son that part of being a man was "getting comfortable with being uncomfortable".
I thought to myself, that sucks, but he's right.
20 years ago as a kid I was taking out the trash and fell down the stairs on my way to the bin. The neighbours daughters were there and so I walked it off with no tears or moans. But as soon as I walked back in I started to openly express my suffering. My father told me to stop crying. If I could suffer in silence in front of the girls I'm to do the same when they aren't watching. 2 decades later I still remember it as if it was 5 minutes ago.
Reminded me of this
"But do not of your own accord make your troubles heavier to bear and burden yourself with complaining. Pain is slight if opinion has added nothing to it; but if, on the other hand, you begin to encourage yourself and say, "It is nothing, – a trifling matter at most; keep a stout heart and it will soon cease"; then in thinking it slight, you will make it slight. Everything depends on opinion; ambition, luxury, greed, hark back to opinion. It is according to opinion that we suffer" -Seneca, Moral Letters
No one wants to hear other people complain.
If you have a real emergency then complain. Everybody is playing hurt, everybody is experiencing pain, but some people feel the need to 'cry wolf' 900 times a day until everyone tunes them out for being needy and annoying.
Garbage advice. Repressing what hurts you will eventually become a burden. This shit advice is the reason people growing old become weak (mentally). They break beneath the burdens of the past.
Was fucking better. I wish the post would use that example instead. Complaining does nothing to fix your problem. Try to solve it instead. Without needing to borrow (repress) it deep within you and fuck your psyche as you go along.
You're making this shit up as you go along.
It might also be part of why men tend to die younger.
While I agree with the core of your post - don't be a little bitch and whine and cry about every little thing in life that doesn't go your way, men in the past took this too far.
Sometimes opening up is healthy but do it in a proper fashion.
Totally agree, this suffer in silence bullshit is killing men from suicide in numbers greater than many nations road tolls.
As i said myself and want to agree with you guys:
"Suffer in silence is retarded oldschool picture of masculinity. You repress the hurt and pain in your life until you've stacked up a tower beneat you are going to gett crushed. Rant, scream, hate... let your emotions flow. HOWEVER, do not get stuck in a mindset like this. Rant if you need to, then fix the problem, move on. Do not represss feeling 'to be a real man'. Fuck this clownshit from Disneychannel."
Many MANY women don't think that saying "It's cold in here" is complaining, but rather just stating the facts. Let that sink in.
As always, it's never what you say, but how you say it. "it's cold in here" could be a naggy complaint. Or argument engaging (bickering). I suppose for a very weak man it could be sulking. Context and how it is said all matter.
Excellent, this sub could use more of this. Truth, straight to the point and info that if applied will positively impact your life.
I don't know why but when reading all that this quote from the Dark Knight came to mind. "You can't rely on anyone these days, you got to do everything yourself, don't we!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyDNN6xf3vw
This is way overboard. This forum proves that. We all come here to post on our experiences and problems find solutions to them. Saying you should "suffer in silence" only counters the purpose of this forum. Yes, it's not good to whine and complain but it's good to reach out to others with the sole purpose of taking action. What's bad is when you're just a wimp who complains and complains without taking action.
You basically just summed up what I already posted.
This.Right.Here.
I feel like this can be taken literally too. After breaking up with my ex I am happy and liberated. The only thing that sucks is now I have no one to talk to as she was really my only friend, but you know what? i'm kind of glad sitting all alone in my room. It makes me reflect more on my own self and my own problems, weaknesses, and what needs to be done to improve.
Suffer. In. Silence.
love it.
The fucking truth ...strong men will agree weak ones will not simple as that
Ever heard of the saying, when u ignore a clown he/she would start getting worse, i fully understand most stuff u gotta keep to yourself i would prefer to move in silence and speak in actions.
It is exactly this and nothing else. You get relieve, you maybe get a "It will get better" kind of verbal support which is meaningless in the end, because that never solves your problem.
You can only rely on yourself when you suffer, and you should never suffer passively. Suffer actively. Look for a solution, distraction, anything that helps to get you out of that slump. Don't drag people into your problems unless they can actually help you solve your problem and you can compensate them for it.
Humans are inherently selfish, they want to share their problems with other humans that don't give a damn about it. People just want to have fun, not sorrows.
Sorry OP but suffer in silence is some sort of shit. Look at the bright side of falling out of the tree, you learned not to be a dumbass when you're climbing. You gained something. The pain was there to teach you that lesson. Your girlfriend cheated, What did that pain teach you? Maybe some women naturally dont give a shit about you. Why should they. They dont owe you anything. Suffer in silence, is some gay shit. If all you do is feel pain. What does pain teach us? To do better, to go out there, try again, and do it better this time.
What do you think suffer in silence means?
When you say suffer in silence Im thinking of some little boy holding in his pain but not doing anything but hurting. So he grows up angry at the tree. I think the real gift of TRP is learning how to fix our shit situation in life so we can produce a better future for our own kids. Yes nature has its way and there will always be people who grow up and learn the truth but because of all that pain they turn it outwards and position themselves high on the totem pole and make others experience the pain they felt. But if I fall from a tree, I might cry because it hurts. But the more times I fall from that tree the more accustomed to the pain I become and the less I cry until eventually I become addicted to the pain. The words sound like something I heard a guy say to a 17 year old kid who hit a guy on a crosswalk turning left. "Suck it up, get over it" The kid messed up but he still feels things. If you give him the wrong information he grows up differently. Use the pain as fuel, is what I like as TRPs motto. You're trying to climb that tree and get o the top right? The very tip top. You want it so bad don't you? and it hurt to fall from that tree but you realized if you want it that's a risk if you're not careful of where your feet and hands are placed while you climb. You fall and suffer pain. But either you get back up cry for a bit and realize after wiping the tears away "Okay I need to be more careful if I want to reach higher" or you stay on the ground crying hoping your parents or friends see you and take you away to feel better. It doesn't matter how you suffer or how much you cry, but don't wallow in the pity, get back up and learn from the source that caused you pain no matter be it physical or psychological.
I'll add if one must get some shit off his chest, be fuckin sure it's done to another man and preferably a masculine one as well.
I sorta agree.
Complain to a therapist or to someone who can actually help.
Not because you want to vent. Vent to an empty journal if you have to, but GET HELP.
Suffering in Silence will never help if you don't try to improve yourself. You just bottle up your thoughts and emotions till they burst, whereas if you get some goddamn help you'll learn to solve that pressure problem in the bottle. Venting the pressure is only a temporary solution, tackle the root cause of the pressure first.
Only suffer in silence if you are truly objective about yourself and you can solve your shit without a need for an outside perspective.
Thanks, needed to read that.
Translation: Suck it up
Because no one cares
You know why i respect gay men? They just don’t give a fuck..
Suffer in silence....while you plan your response/revenge. The only reason to share your mistakes/misery is to teach fellow RPers the errors of your ways.
Ive been learning this at varying rates for years. Every time i'll realize to keep it to myself just a little bit more, ill discover just the same later on. Can't figure out how to format a document? Look up the references and leave the manager alone. Minor or majorly embarassing fuck up? Damage control, learn from it and don't red face complain about your incompetence to friends for consolation (or a good ribbing). Suffering in silence is not only powerful in constructing a firmer inner frame but preserves your outer image as well, framing you more as a dependable independent and reliable individual.
You're softening this pill. It's a tough one, but it's important to state it as strongly as it requires. The toughest things are the ones that you will get the biggest backlash for sharing. People aren't always judging you for your personal strength, but also the strength of your situation, and they don't care how much you've overcome. They just want you to be reliable for them.
Let's say your ex-wife is a drug addict. Anybody that has lived through that knows that's a nightmare that takes an exceptional person to get through. But if you tell a woman that, she knows you got knocked down and have to fight up from your back. You'll never hear from her again. She wants to be with the version of you that always wins and never went through any of that shit.
No matter what happened, you'll find that 99% of people are fundamentally unsafe to talk to about it. This is truly one of the more bitter pills to swallow.
Suffer from the pain of discipline, or the pain from lack thereof.
This is dangerous and misleading advice! Ever heard of "A problem shared is a problem halved" ? There is a reason the most depressed people are the ones with nobody to talk to! Venting and discussing problems is an undeniably important thing to do!
It depends on the nature of the sufferring. If its sufferring just to suffer then yes, if its sufferring to end sufferring then perhaps its good to be able to seek help. Being a man doesnt mean you have to never ask for help with anything.
The squeaky wheel gets the oil. Staying quite and giving a shit that others will think your weak is weak.
Let’s not forget how much easier it is to suffer in silence today than it was for the real men of yesteryear.
We have instant access to the therapeutic, raw truths of every great man from Marcus Aurelius to Ed Latimore at our fingertips.
The frame-reinforcing reading that once would have cost half your day and a trip to the library is now accessible to you while you take a shit.
Suffer in silence, boys. Solid post OP.
I was just yesterday thinking about this and how it affects the fight against feminist propaganda in the society today. Women have made it a game of "who can be the biggest victim". It reminds me of that old proverb about not getting into an argument with a fool because she'll drag you down to her level and beat you with experience.
Some few men have succumbed to this and tried to portray themselves as bigger victims, but this doesn't seem to be generally effective (this describes most of MRA subreddit).
Others have seen the same "Oh me poor victim" claims from women and not let it drag them down into a victim complex even when they know they've suffered equally or more. Because men suffer silently. That's the (at least original) idea of TRP, to say fuck it to these manipulative attempts and focus on improving yourself.
The first type of response plays better in media and maybe useful in small amounts, but individually for you, it's better to be true to your masculinity and not get trapped into their game.
Great post and great point OP!
Forget the haters that just want to pick apart every damn post they see. Yes, there are some extremes where you need to share instead of suffer. But 99% of the time OP is correct. Man-bitches need to stop whining about every little thing.
DUDE! it is no wonder the amazing Miyamoto Mushashi went into the wild forest or whatever (basically in solitude) to perfect the way of the sword. It is in this solitude where great men are forged! tho, thanks for the reminder =D
I prefer these three words: DEAL WITH IT.
Suffer in silence is passive. Accepting. It's what women do in crap relationships. It's not what an active agent who controls his own destiny does.
DEAL WITH IT.
Your way of dealing may be to ask for help. It may be to endure the pain because no help is possible/forthcoming. It may be to try to escape. It may simply be for you to endure the pain in silence. Whatever it is, it is you, acting and choosing, to deal with the situation as you see fit.
Also, just because you're being strong/maintaining frame, doesn't mean you need to suffer in silence. You aren't alone in this world. There are men and women who can be there for/with you - professionals, your personal allies/family, etc. Acting like you are totally alone is a mistake. You must depend and rely upon yourself first and foremost, yes, but no man is a perfect island.
My phrase is simply "i can deal with this"
More details please, friebd.
Just I find myself saying this to avoid stressing out over something. Good or bad.
Rejection, learning something new, working out, whatever it is telling myself ill make it work helps my mentality.
You don't realize how pathetic you sound?
Good post! Complaining alot isn't only unproductive, it's detrimental. You are just reinforcing the negative state of mind by complaining; it will make you feel worse, not better.
Here is my rule: If your friends can't fix it, don't talk about it. When do I break this rule? Health problems and very rarely relationship problems. And only with lifelong friends that have 5+ years and that you can trust. I remember a specific situation with an ongoing problem I had been dealing with that could not be resolved. I did not share it with my best friend for several years. I eventually did and I don't feel like anything was gained. I just wanted to vent and it was useless. I made me feel good to get it out but then it made them worry more and there was nothing they could do to help.
Don't vent to your friends. Talk about your dreams and your ambitions and the things you two are gonna do when you are both filthy rich. Don't complain unless it's health related and they need to know or if you think you want to talk to them about something, wait a long while. Maybe it will just resolve itself. The few times I have opened up it only provided temporary relief and it was weak.
Asking for advice about a situation is not venting. They are two different things. Want to talk about a career path you are unsure about? That's advice. Want to talk about how you are mad at your boss and they mistreat you? That's venting.
Good rule. But every now and again my friends' capabilities will surprise me.
While what you said is 100% true, it also sounds disturbingly like what the Blue Pill world constantly tell all men. "Suffer in silence", or "suck it up", or as feminists say "Cry me a river!"
Men get divorce-raped? "Suck it up!"
Fathers seperated from their children? "Suck it up!"
Men forced to serve in military? "Suck it up!"
...You get the picture.
There's a time to suck it up, there's a time to make noise. It all depends on the situation. "Suck it up!" is only RP advice when whining or not makes absolutely no difference.
That's not the case on the internet as thousands of men stand to learn from our RP experiences.
I think the intention is to communicate that you need to get over it, not cry and whine like a baby.
This doesn’t and should not stop you from speaking up when you need to/ standing up for yourself.
Totally see what you’re saying, which is why it is so important to know what advice to take, and when.
Good version:
- Rant and rage as you need, let your emotions out (as long as it doesn't fuck up a situation. Don't do it at your chefs office for example)
- Do not complain
- Fix the problem
- Do not repress your pain/feelings
Suck it up is blue pill. LIVE it out i say. Just don't get stuck on complaining when you could instead try fixing it (hell even if you can't fix it. Don't get stuck complaining. After its out of your system JUST MOVE ON).
Never tell anyone your problems. 80% don’t care and the other 20% is happy you have them. If you feel like shit everyone you hate wins.
"Keeping frame" expressed a different way.
Women have no frame.
Oohohhhh, yes they have. Don't confuse frame with stoicism.
OK, thanks I will study that aspect.
"I will go to the bar without money and certainly find a guy that pays for my drinks"
Something as simple as that is a frame. And bluepill will submit to this frame of thought. Women have a frame. It is simply nothing compared to a strong male frame really.
i couldn't agree more.. there is a really sickening, gross attitude that western society has towards men.. its essentially the reversal of what society used to think of women. Your central point is spot on. Suffer in silence (obviously when things are very bad you don't bottle it up, you make a wise choice to share this with people you trust). You just do what yougotta do. That's all. No point chucking a pissy fit over it - not only is that not going to solve the problem, but it's going to add to it. It goes with the men that suppress their shit too, ever seen a grown male act out like a 6 year old because something incredibly small went wrong? i honestly think that's a reason domestic violence exists. Freud was right about the subconscious in that regard. I hve been depressed for 5 years. Taking medications. Been suicidal. Struggle sometimes socially. But I am on the mend. Each year I have progressed. Why? Because I did what I needed to do. I got help. I didn't supress it and I didn't milk it for attention. I fucking hate attention for that shit. Ditched religion too. Expression of emotion is VERY different for males. Just because of that fact alone, some people in mainstream society seem to think that there is only one way to express emotion (ie feminised).
It's amazing how people can't have a healthy relationship with their emotions. Emotions are the only thing that make life worth living. Learn to work with them not bottle them up and prevent your own body from expressing itself. Who do you think you are you can tell your body what to feel and what not to ? You're keeping yourself in a prison
This is fine as long as you're constantly looking for a way out of/around the suffering. Or if you can turn it to your benefit. Sometimes it's ok to complain, but do it like a man.
I can usually distinguish between the intended message and the one dimensional wording used to simplify the message. In this case, the wording is so absolute that it changes the message into something harmful : " never complain for anything ever "
I'm pretty sure such an absolute statement can be proven wrong by some serious psychologists. I learned that holding unto emotions all the time can lead to dissosiative disorder. You don't want that.
Being passive and submissive is unattractive to high value girls. My girl hates it when I don't complain about shit she does or says. She loves it when I tell her " no. " Refusing to suffer is a better alternative to suffering in silence.
I wouldn't have replied if I felt like the post message was about minimizing complaining and adopting a positive frame. But the absolute way in which is worded makes me question the validity of this redpill advice.
Yes complaining is bad. Better to complain than blow up.
Good thought. I’ve been allowing myself to whine about nonsense lately. No one wants to hear that shit.
Still, if I have negative thoughts, I will write them in a journal and KEEP IT PRIVATE. Anything to whine about can be written, then you can ask yourself, "Are you done now?" and move on and do something productive. Also, don't hang out with friends that complain all the time about how things aren't going the way they want for them and don't want to improve. They are a waste of time and can actually drain you and you don't have time for that shit. You need to focus on improving yourself.
Hating on women doesn’t make you seem manly or masculine, just bitter
U ain't from around these parts is ya?
Men can be productive and logical, but so can women, and many are. Yeah, I don’t frequent this subreddit, but I do agree that a lot of things in our culture aren’t fair to men or women. I don’t think implying that one is better than the other will help anyone ever
men and women are different they need different things clearly.
Not sure about the suffering part. I've learned that hardships put suffering into perspective. If you have truly been poor, losing $10k on a bad trade won't faze you. If you've truly had your life and soul destroyed by a woman, shit tests won't be a big deal in comparison. If you've truly seen rock bottom, setbacks won't seem that bad.
My point here is that you can actually come to a point in life where there is no suffering, because you've suffered so much already that everything is a walk in the park by comparison. Setbacks and problems won't even impact your mood anymore. You just deal with them like a Terminator robot.
I think that's the purest form of stoicism, because it comes naturally. When you don't have to force yourself to be a man about things because you just are.
I think that it's cool to talk about a problem with a friend over a beer. But I always cringe when a guy writes about his problems on social media. (Guy gets dumped. Posts on Facebook...) "She was my life! I thought that she was the one!" Holy crud. That's what women and little girls post.
Four words that changed my life:
"Desire cannot be negotiated"
Thank you so much Rollo. God only knows the wasted time, emotional pain, and humiliation I escaped from when I finally choked down those magic words.
Teach me a little more about what those words mean
Let's say a woman you like doesn't want to fuck you. Or your girlfriend/ wife isn't fucking you as much as you'd like her to.
What can you do about it? How can you make her want you?
These four words mean that you cannot negotiate her sexual attraction to you. Negotiation happens on the level of the rational brain, whereas sexual desire happens in the instinctual, animal part of the brain (and body). You either give her tingles or you do not. Men so often (I certainly used to) attempt to "earn" her desire. By being more dutiful, by being more attentive, by buying gifts, etc. Or they try to leverage their past commitment and faithful deeds to inspire her to start wanting to have sex with them. Not only does this NEVER work, but it most often backfires and causes her pussy to dry up even more. That's because she wants to fuck a male that is attractive. And attempting to bargain for her desire is extremely needy and signals to her that you are an unattractive male. Which makes her want you even less.
The very best you might get is boring duty sex, or the kind of sex that women use when they want to extract commitment and resources from affluent men who are not otherwise attractive. The worst you will get is resentment and bitterness over your overt attempts to win her over. The goal is not to get a woman to fuck you. The goal is to get her to WANT to fuck you. And you can't make someone want something like that, no matter how many times you do the dishes, take out the garbage, call her back right away, listen to all her bullshit, show her what a great guy you are, etc. So your real goal isn't to make HER want to fuck you at all, but rather to make yourself as fuckable as possible and find the girl who DOES want to fuck you.
That is why all the recommendations on TRP have to deal with changing yourself to become more attractive to women in general, and never an attempt to "win over" the sexual desire of an individual woman.
Step one is to maximize your physical dominance and appearance. This hits at the very core of what females in our species find attractive, in an animal-instinct way. Be tall. Be big. Be strong. Be good looking (as good looking as you can, given your genetic hand).
Step two is to maximize your emotional dominance and signal your fitness. That is why frame in general is much more important than pick-up lines or clever comebacks. Building a strong frame is building the subconscious bulwark that signals your attractiveness as a male, and in a way that wins over her tingles (and not her rational, psychological approval). Be the immovable rock. Be the center of your universe. Be confident, because you know you are the shit. Be nonreactive to her insults and tests. Be self-amused. Be non-needy. Be purposeful in your life, with your main goals unrelated to women. Be decisive. Be a leader. These are traits, not behaviors. They are who you are (or who you need to become), NOT things you are doing in order to "get her to like you."
In fact, a really attractive male does not attempt to "get her to like you" at all, at least not after initiating the courtship. The attractive male aims to enjoy himself on his terms, and he is ready to leave at a moment's notice because he has other options. That means you need other options. That means you need to develop plates and practice spinning them. These are the things that make you truly attractive to women, that make you the catch that they WANT you to be and they WANT to fuck.
It also means that your entire dating strategy should be changed to the following process: 1. MAXIMIZE YOUR ATTRACTIVENESS 2. SCREEN FOR INTEREST
There is no "find a girl you like, and try to convince her that you are worth fucking." This does not work, because desire cannot be negotiated. Shift your perspective. Once you've maximized your physical attractiveness, and you've organized your life to optimize your frame and the mastery of your domain, your strategy shifts to screening for girls who are interested. You see a girl you like, you approach her immediately. Be confident, be self-amused, be the master of your world. If she has tingles for you, you'll know it pretty quick. If she does not, DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME. DESIRE CANNOT BE NEGOTIATED. Your job (after becoming as attractive as possible) is to simply communicate that attractiveness to her (put yourself in her presence, demonstrate your frame and mastery, show her your physicality, initiate kino, show comfort and confidence around her, etc). Your goal is now to polarize her as quickly as you can one way or the other. Don't let her stay on the fence about you. Initiate, escalate, escalate. If she's not feeling you? Great. You saved yourself time. But by no means try to "win her over" to you. You either give her tingles and she WANTS to fuck you, or you are wasting your time and you should move on immediately.
So that's the long way of putting it.
Great comment man, you should copy this and post it to the main, it sums up stuff quite well.
I prefer “fuck your feelings”. You’re equipped to protect and accomplish shit so try not to let other things get in the way
This is exactly why i never open up to anyone
Haha what nonsense, oh well
Not sure about this especially for one's mental health.
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Domestic silence is the real problem that no one is talking about, don’t be afraid to speak up for yourself and others
For men, the best solution is to resolve what is aching you. Not to talk about it with someone. Life is sometimes shit. Talking about your problems only makes you feel like you did something, this only solves the problem if it was imaginary. Now that I am thinking about it, that may be why it works for many women.
You mean the cases of complaining where the root of a problem is clear and instaed if taking action, you just bitch around., right?. Ofc prople bitch around as customers to me. Thats the fastest way to resolve problems thats not the complaining u refered to in your post.
Partly true, partly wrong. Whining is sign of privilege, and being afraid to expose your vulnerabilities is a sign of fear and weakness. But on the other hand, if you do have serious things to complain about, you're right, you're better off keeping your mouth shut, because you're probably a loser and no one cares. All the Chads I've known love to complain and rant all day long about the pettiest shit, and the women find it endearing. They don't mind it, or take it seriously, because they can see the guy has his life in order and is actually tough and confident. Meanwhile, the biggest betas in the group sit quietly in the corner trying to act tough, and when someone asks them "how are you", they say "I'm fine, thanks" everytime even though they think about suicide 24/7. I'll suffer in silence for now, but my dream is become one day strong and alpha enough so I can afford to cry like a bitch and a baby about literally everything without giving a fuck.
Adding to this, I'm not one for mantras.
I've always been a fan of acting, not saying. If the world sees in you and exciting, driven, positive life, doors "and legs" fling wide open really quick.
I have been “suffering in silence” and now I’m ready to blow my brains out one quiet Sunday morning
Agreed, but with a grain of salt. For deeply traumatic events, like rape, abuse, fear for your life and so on that can give you ptsd, you should talk to a male professional. The guy that bench 3times his weight needs spotter in case shit goes wrong. It doesn't make him weak, it makes him human.
have you seen the kid who is famous for crying about bullies to his mom on viral video?
https://youtu.be/UdENqUQfcI4
he got invited to season premiere of avengers by chris evans hanging out with nfl players going on tv. theyre calling him brave. its sad
his mom is worst parent of the year if you ask me creating a victim.
alot of people think this post is "how to be a good friend"
this is about you. people are so thick w sjw ooooh what if someone with ptsd is reading this omg!
some concepts are subtle people love to blame all their problems on something this is great advice, u fucking excuse makers its hillarious watching ur guys hamsters go crazy not ever trying to except responsibility for things or have agency.
dont forget what trp is about.
I THINK YOU MEANT a lot
I AM A BOTbeepboop!
Women are great at reading men, they can sometimes sense when your a bit "off" from normal and ask "Whats Wrong" I find the best response to be "I got a lot going on" which is actually usually true. I don't ever give details though.
You can learn a lot by this by following a free 10-day Vipassana meditation retreat.
After spending 10 days without speaking to anyone dealing with freezing cold temperatures, knee pain, feeling tired, people snoring and all other discomforts without saying anything, I learned a lot from that experience.
When you learn to shut up you'll notice that most people bitch and moan all the time.
People I work with for 8 hours a day will bitch about how tired they are. We do the same job. We work the same hours. Yes I'm tired too. But I keep that to myself because no one cares. They just want you to care about their suffering.
OP is right. Suffer in Silence
You don't have to suffer in silence, its just that no-one needs to hear you complain. Don't be a fool and think that internalizing all your suffering won't start to impact your mental health. You should journal to vent, write on TRP(as I am doing here), and have one or two very close friends, typically older men, who you can confide in.
Thank you, just broke up with GF yesterday. I needed to hear this.
Awesome post. Really motivating especially the end.
Solace in Conflict
A younger me wanted that tattooed somewhere but that would defeat the point of suffering in silence wouldn't it
Excellent advice. I think that it will make will relationships better with everyone when If I avoid complaining over meaningless things.
I'd imagine for a lot of people, as it was for myself, once you stop complaining you focus on doing which leads nicely into being productive. Quite literally the act of not complaining builds self-reliance.
And me here thinking men wanted to break free from the boys don’t cry stereotype.
Guys not being able to talk about issues is why they bottle them up until they kill themselves. There’s a way to talk about things constructively without being a bitch about it.
Mate, nice idea but this is the reason a lot of blokes are commuting suicide, suffering in silence will get you so far, but you will repress a lot of what you should be feeling emotionally and getting it out to a trusted person helps you to ride the wave out naturally rather than bottling it up.
Don’t be a slave to your emotions or act out like a child, but don’t equally try and act tough to save face. Sometimes the people you’re acting tough for will help you in your lower moments and having a little humility in your life will help you along the way.
Have fun sucking dicks! x
I'm old fashioned, suicide rates have jumped up in the last decade because we have bitches that can't let go and get a grip on their own. If someone can't keep their head straight over little shit, don't even bother trying to keep your silence at all. Just go ahead & whine to your plate about how fucked up your life is every time you get the chance, don't try to hold anything back.
This post is for men that have the capability to handle tough mental shit on their own without seeking outside "help".
Lol, beta is as beta does. If she did that, she took your HONOUR, so take away her BEAUTY, this is where acid attacks come in play. And cut that guys dick for cucking you. Knowing this, nobody else will underestimate you ever again.
Walking away with tail between legs like a beaten dog is pathetic.
HONOR ABOVE ALL
My emotions want to agree with you, I'd love to beat the living shit out of the fucker that cucked me and bring the worst shame upon the woman that brought dishonor to me. To take away her beauty and leave her for the dogs like the bitch she is. But I think this is a bit childish and something that a butthurt bitch would do.
Great post. Men are not allowed to show emotions other than anger/happiness, emotions are seen as a weakness and the display of weakness should be avoided at all costs.
You're depressed? Fake happiness, you're a man, you're not allowed to be depressed.
Your girlfriend broke up with you? Fake happiness, you're a man, you're not allowed to be sad.
You've got no friends and are lonely? Fake happiness, you're a man, you're not allowed to feel abandoned.
If you ever feel like all the feelings bottling up are about to burst out, that is when anger comes in. You convert all those feelings into anger, go to the fucking gym, use the anger to motivate you to work on yourself FOR yourself. Fuck everyone else, you should be the only one in your life that matters, you should be your top priority and nothing else. Without anger and selfishness there is no improvement.
I'm not too big on being selfish, in some cases yes, but not all.
You don't realize how pathetic you sound?