The traditional advice when it comes to dating is:
"Just be Confident Bro!"
However, you can't fake confidence. Confidence comes through experience. Failing again, and again, and again, and learning from such mistakes gives you confidence, because you now know how to handle the situation. Can you do it as a short term solution? Sure, but that shouldn't be your end goal.
What if I asked you to fly a full 747 jet, and you've never flown before, do you think you would be confident? Probably not.
That's why I argue, that in order for you to gain full confidence in dating or life, you need to go out into the real world and fail. Again, and again and again.
Remember "The worst objection is the objection you don't know how to handle". Maybe your starting from a blank slate and you don't know how to deal with 99.9% of objections. That's totally cool, everyone starts somewhere.
Or maybe your a seasoned pro out there, but you just get tripped up by those curveballs she throws at you.
I know in my dating life, I've done things and said things that make me cringe and just want to shake my old self saying "why would you say/do such a thing????"
Embrace such mistakes, and learn from it. Next time you come around, your arsenal is just a little bit better, and hopefully she throws you a curveball, so you can fail and know how to deal with that scenario.
When you have that arsenal of knowledge knowing how to deal with any situation, THAT'S confidence.
+1
Failure is a prerequisite to success.
If you never failed, you can't truly succeed.
What if I've only failed and keep failing?
you're not trying the right way. It's like trying to lose weight with a juice cleanse, you're failing on your approach and not your attempt itself
Wrote this comment elsewhere in this thread, I think it bears repeating:
Success do show you what has worked. And you are likely to learn how to replicate success next time by repeating that way. But if you wanna reach a new height. Or achieve something new or higher. There will be uncertainty when you dont have a sure way of succeeding. That when we should embrace failures. Not only not to avoid it but to seek it. To learn what works and what doesnt. Thats how we get out of the comfort zone and grow.
I'm not talking about with women I do fine with women it's everything else.
just because I said approach, doesn't mean it's approaching women...
That's actually pretty deep. I appreciate that. That's what I'm feeling. I'm not approaching things correctly. Tough part is figuring out what I'm doing wrong.
Failure isHOW find out what's wrong. If you're failing over and over, but not changing, that's the problem.
Every great success is built on a mountain of 'nope not like that.' Start building.
Meditate and reflect on what you did, where it went wrong, and how you can do it differently.
Everyone is, but just the fact that you and I are on this sub goes to show that we are at least putting in some effort to finding the right direction to better ourselves. Good luck to you!
This is where creativity/problem solving becomes important.
If you keep failing the same way you'll get the same results. There's that quote or whatever. My point is, being able to take a step back, self-reflect on failures, and then try different actions. Tunnel vision is easy to fall into and often hard to recognize.
The only places you should have tunnel vision is in the weightroom and in the bedroom fucking a bitch. Being in the present moment with an elite focus will catapult you to the top.
Than your insane.
Repeating the same mistakes over and over again expecting a different result is insanity.
If it was a video game, you'd be willing to fail level 1 forty times in a row if you needed to, and not long after that level 1 would be easy.
Outside a video game few see failing 40 times in a row as normal, they must be doing it wrong. No it's just like the video game, if you have to fail 40 times just suck it up and get though it. Level 2 pays +20K a year.
Most worthwhile things and hard video games require a 40 times failure premium paid in advance. So if you give up after 20 tries you just aren't clear at what is involved. If you think your first 10 attempts have just as much chance to succeed as attempt 35-45 you just aren't clear how things work. At attempt 10 don't think "no sign of success" think "ok, now I have my first real shot at thinking about this right"
The number isn't always 40, but whatever it is it's going to seem way to big. Just because you can plug your usb cable in by the 3rd attempt doesn't mean you are going to make your first sale on the 3rd attempt. You are going to make sales on attempt 70, 74, 75, 79, 81.
If you can't make a sale by attempt 60 in this example, then you can start questioning your ability. It's the same as gurls. You must improve yourself between some of the attempts, or you are just that low SMV guy that is never improving himself who can fail indefinitely.
If I told my boss at work that it was completely normal I fuck up 40 times before I got it right, I’m sure I’d be fired at least 39 times before I got it right
I was thinking a sales job in the example. Don't think I even mentioned that. Sorry. A beginning sales job is hard mode.
Haha no worries I’m just teasin ya.
A failure should be a lesson. Change something if you keep failing.
The key is not to fail; you always want to aim for success. And you typically want to try things that you have about 50% chance at succeeding at (they're the most psychologically motivating).
If you fail 100%, you're currently setting your sights too high and you have to aim lower until you succeed enough to keep you motivated.
You can always start aiming higher again when you have a couple of successes.
That's an irrational thought. Don't let those thoughts become obstacles or excuses to not take risks. The success isn't necessarily success itself; being ok with failure is the bigger success. Then you'll learn.
Then you're successful at being a loser! Congratulations!
That's what I was afraid of..
Humans are driven by incentives.
Failure signals to your psyche that there is an opportunity to improve.
Improvement necessitates a change in behavior, often requiring the individual to discard behaviors or correct personal actions. Calibration based off of demand from the environment.
You need to fail to reveal to yourself your weakness.
Step up and quit wallowing in self pity. Handle your shit.
I quote Michael Jordan a lot when it comes to altering your mindset about "failure"....
“I have missed more than 9,000 shots in my career. I have lost almost 300 games. On 26 occasions I have been entrusted to take the game winning shot, and I missed. I have failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed.”
There is no lose, It's a win or a learn.
Here's 23 more stories of "failure"
in my jordan year of 23 years old, I thank you. always knew this old quote and glad it clearly applies to TRP. chalk up another point for reddit. and 1838 points for TRP
Whereas lets look at Alexander Karelin,
800 bouts, zero defeats. Who learned a lot more? Karelin or Jordan?
Failure isn’t the key to confidence. Learning from failure is.
Don’t blindly jump into the ocean without knowing how to swim. Sometimes, you won’t be able to find your way up. Don’t become so obsessed with failing that you never actually succeed. Don’t fail to see the forest for the trees.
Society propagates the lie that failure is the key to everything and that you’re an invincible Disney prince. Practiced, planned failure is.
Awesome fuckin' post, I would just fly that bitch; end of runway full throttle might leave the ground sooner than normal and it may scare some folks but we have to do it,turning we'll figure it out, landing could be a problem but we'll do it with the help of bad ass dudes that point out stuff like you did with this post
I didn't jump into the ocean, I was thrown off a dock at the lake. Ha ha. True story. I've had the "sink or swim" mentality most of my life, probably due to that incident (and others) being somehow embedded in my brain along the way.
A lesson from the startup world: "Fail fast, fail cheap, fail often"
That's how I always figured it. If you aren't intuitive enough to know what will work, then you aren't in position to interpret a bunch of random crap a bunch of randos wrote down because they were paid $50, for example. People don't know what they want. They will use any tool that's clearly less toil and more productive than tool they are presently using, for example, not because it fits under a desk.
Love the "Fail fast, fail cheap, fail often" model, clipping it to my notes.
Law 28: Enter Action with Boldness
They have apps now for flying a 747 so i could do it.
I read dozens of reddit posts about flying 747s every day. I don't even need to try it to know that I can do it.
The fundamental problem with telling someone they need to fail to get somewhere is it's human nature for the sub conscience to speak to them, "The best way to fail is to not try hard." Putting in a top notch effort and watching yourself fail brings confidence, because, for one, you get to see what parts worked, reducing the problem and focus to what didn't work. If you fixed 10% of the remaining problem and repeat the process. Rinse and repeat 10 times and your done. But wait, theres often just one big bitch of a problem left that's hard to hammer out, but since all of the other problems are gone you can focus on the remaining big problem.
Here's the basic formula:
The best way I've found to solve complex tasks is to pick off all the easy problems first, then pick off another layer of solvable problems, the next layer maybe I'll see one problem that is solvable but takes a lot of grunt work, so choose to knock that one out to greatly lighten up my brain. Move to eliminate all of the distractions around the biggest problems then solve them. That's the winning method for me. By starting with the small problems and ignoring the big ones there is less 'multitask chatter' that makes the brain stressed and confused and wastes enormous amounts of time.
When ya ain't got nothin' ya got nothin' left to lose.
What if you constantly fail at faking confidence? Can you become really confident in your ability to fake being confident? And if so, at that point are you really faking anymore?
Directed by M. Night Shamalan
Confidence isn't what you show to others, it's what you think of yourself. If you know you're faking, it'll show eventually. Small or large decisions you make during the day, where your mind goes when confronted with a situation is based on internal confidence which can never be faked. It affects everything you do.
What do you have to do to build internal confidence. I mean I don't know if finance is a good reason. I would feel more confident in myself if I was not worried I would go homeless. But I don't think this is something you'd tap yourself in the chest like "Fuck yeah I'm rich" haha
I guess knowledge could be one thing, like "I'm good at this skill"
Then don't fake confidence. Focus on building real confidence; it will last you a lifetime.
Some people can simply "Fake it till you make it", and that simply is a mindset shift where you mould yourself into a new character.
But you build real confidence by going out to the field and making mistakes, and making increments to your feedback loop.
That sounds like a giving up attitude to me. If I become confident at faking my confidence, I won’t need to fake anymore.
That might be a joke, but you absolutely can. I used to do some acting in college (it came in really handy in my years of sales and finance afterwards). If you repeat an act over and over it eventually isn't an act anymore, it's reality. If you fake swagger and people aren't quite convinced, just keep swaggering and eventually that behavior WILL be your behavior.
I love the term 'swagger.' Its one of the most underrated things people talk about.. especially on TRP. Swagger is basically the X-factor that makes you stand out.
What do you consider swagger? I have narrowed it down to a combination of a few things: body language, mannerisms, style.
Is this what you meant by it?
chiming in from sobriety (alcohol), 20+ years-
You change the behavior to change the thinking. Most people are convinced it's the other way around. Think evolutionally, our ability to act was long engaged before we developed all the cauliflower.
In fact, the thinking is frequently the problem alone.
Most of the really badass entrepreneurs I know almost worship failure. If you can't allow yourself to fail, you are not being courageous or pursuing your goals with gusto.
To fail is to open yourself up to the opportunity for growth. This post was yet just another reminder to keep on keeping on. <3 thx
I wouldn't say failing is the answer. I used to be so confident when I was a kid, being able to grab a microphone and have some fun in front of 2000 people or making the weirdest photos cuz it was fun. Years and years of bullying destroyed that. I'm now nervous if I need to present a topic in front of 10 people. When I see someone filming me, I hide and hope to never see that video because I'll get depressed. I feel like bullying basically is failing, and it destroyed my confidence. How the hell is this going to help me?
For the record, I'm lifting, expanding social circles and overall improving. This is just literally what brought me here.
Don't take this as advice, just what happened to me. The key is to manage latency - you wont get it right away. Patience mofo.
It is mindset, or some call it attitude. It's really hard to do when yer in a sucky place.
It is nuanced as well. If you have a bunch of lemons - it's not so much about making lemonade - it's about figuring out the fail in terms of yourself - not the social conditioning we all have - it's a fucking minefield of emotions (some self made, others environment made, others just innate) - you have to parse and not be so stead fast as to be brittle.
IT DOES GET EASIER. As you grow older, you naturally just start knowing when you can grab the soap out of the tub, without it just moving away from your hand.
The shitty part about it is that the more you try the more you just become a professional "tryer" instead of a laid back experiencer. You maybe able to grab that soap easily, but is this the only thing?
I worked out, got into dance, was doing all sorts of sports and traveling, and living what I thought was an authentic life, a charmed life, and it was...
However, I realize now my main goal was to be a cool, have sexual experiences that I wasn't having, and live up to some insane ideal I made up. One day I just snapped and started not giving a shit. That led me down this hole:
After an event, I started getting laid a lot, started attracting people who were sincere and able to deal with my honesty of short comings. I think I became a little realer, but also starting to get fat. I really just wanted to experience ppl or not and if so I would go home.
I want to go back to that old lifestyle of powering through things with workouts and romantic ideals of how amazing I can be. But, now I face a bigger challenge: How do I get in shape in a sustainable life style, while not becoming a tryer.
I dont like the person I was, although I admire his perseverance, the sheer anger towards the latency of "do this" and "get that" was too long and made me unhealthy because of my impatience. -it was mentally wrong.
I now smoke too much, drink too much, have an embarrassing belly - what took 2 weeks to get rid of now takes months with heavy lifting -metaphorically speaking, yet I often name my stupid thoughts out loud to my friends so I CANNOT employ them.
IE I recently told two of my friends after a huge setback that I was not going to talk to them so they would be worried - I said it so I couldn't use it. - We are all filled with such games. They need to be neutralized by honesty.
It is important to NOT be an actor. When you tell your friends the stupid thoughts -in the right way- (like you are talking about someone else) it sets you free a little. Or be honest with yourself in the same way - we all suck - I know I do - my confidence comes from not worrying about being called out because I will be the first to add "and also" statements to it.
For full disclosure I have charm and decent looks, but my friends have more - still what always attracts me to a person is their honesty. What will attract yourself to yourself is your honesty to yourself.
Stop lying and be patient? Dono.
PS If you want to do something new, search your memory for likewise things you have done and use that as a map. Mindmaps.
Anyways thanks for indulging me and oh latency and patience: Confidence is for the birds. You wanna be a good speaker? -go do a toastmasters course. You want to get laid? -get a whore or join a swingers club - break that game mentality about sex and talk. And remember we all suck, probably way worse than you. Or play the game without buffs - atleast now you know you can make a choice.
Understood and sympathies to your bullying nonsense. I've never been bullied. Don't care for it. Anyone legit tough is usually disturbed at the incongruence and lack of legitimacy bullying creates.
But it is sometimes a political tool brought about by necessity I suppose.
Anyway, I was going to ask TRP_mask if you couldn't see it that anything other than liking yourself as you once did is just madness? Doesn't matter what the cause was. Madness you still carry around the bullying, as an example.
After all, you're no longer fighting that fight. You're literally doing the opposite of the Jordan quote.
Not exactly following here, what Jordan quote?
Can’t find it now but it was a quote from Michael Jordan, citing the # of free throws he had missed, the number of times he missed the buzzer beater, etc. —essentially it was a detailed keeping of all the times he’s messed up. Obviously it was motivation for him to overcome limitations.
Try https://www.toastmasters.org to become more confident in front of people. Also, people don't give a fuck about you.
I'll only be able to fail flying the 747 jet once though
That's the thing. Most things are not on the same level of importance as flying a 747.
Most things, its ok to screw up. The rewards are real, and the downsides are usually illusions.
This is the first thing I’ve seen on this sub that’s correct.
"If you want to succeed, double your failure rate"
Logged on just to post a reply to this. It is absolutely, 100%, spot on. Seeking to challenge your comfort zone and EMBRACING failure is as important a personality trait as any - and the vast majority of men are too scared they will be judged to do anything. In fact it is so important that it should be learned outside of just dating benefits.
Make no mistake - you WILL be judged by your peers. Doing something different than the rest of your group? (i.e. taking on a martial art, taking on a new sport, etc.), you will be judged. Putting yourself out there? (Releasing music from your band, starting a new business), again you will be judged. But do you know what you learn from this?
That their opinions dont matter. The people who do judge you or usually do nothing losers. The people who dont are ones who actually had to accomplish something meaningful in their lives and understand what it takes to get there.
In my experience if you and your friends are all horribly out of shape, and you decide to work out regularly, that you will be judged in that group but the ripped body builder at the gym willing to give out advice? He doesnt care at all and probably recognizes the effort. So many times in my life I hear from peers "why are you doing that?". "Why are you camping, you dont camp". "Why are you learning to scuba dive". "What is the point of starting of inventing that". I cant even begin to tell you how much I've grown in just the last few years by failing upward, and having a mix of successes. The self confidence it gives you is unparalleled. Not only that but once you have a mission outside of women dating becomes SO MUCH easier and enjoyable.
They judge you because they themselves are uncomfortable with change and have formed an identity of you, and expect you to comply with it.
So say your friend know you as quiet, shy, kind of timid around women, skinny-fat and relatively unconfident.
One day, you decide to change, so you talk more, expand your social circle, start lifting, etc.
Your friends have already made you out to be a quiet, shy, unconfident mess, so when they see you starting to have your shit together his makes them uncomfortable and they’ll do whatever to try to get you back, because humans prefer to stay in their little bubbles of safety and bliss.
I wish I would've seen this when the thread was fresh but if you want to throw yourself into the unknown and into a failure-filled atmosphere, try sales. You get shit on all day every day and have to learn to get back up and try again. Eventually, those strong enough to preserve come out ahead.
I'm not talking car sales either. Business to business sales. I've been selling for around six years since I left school and nothing has given me more confidence than my job. I can walk into a room full of millionaire businessmen and command their attention. Six years ago, I struggled talking to my college classroom.
My job has caused me to fall on my face so many times that I've come to get used to it. The thing is, it doesn't happen much anymore. I've learned how to carry myself and talk and walk the right way. That confidence has carried over into my social life.
Maturity, confidence, independence, and knowledge are all things I've gained due to my career. I had to throw myself into it completely and relocate a few times, but it's been a whirlwind that's been worth every minute so far.
I've been in sales before I was into game. Now I run my own company and apply the concepts I've learned in my sales and entrepreneurial life including mindset, sales, objections, and 'people skills' to further make myself better in all aspects of my life: in my health, my business, and in my dating life.
You know what really gave me a lot of confidence was when I realized God and my soul was liberated. I'm serious, I fear nothing but separation from God now, even though I know that is impossible. God is real and spirituality is the only way to attain true happiness and freedom.
Half way there. The solution is taking wide, deep, varied action for a sustained length of time. The fact that most actions will "fail" (not product a jackpot result) is obvious: it's a less likely combination. But it's not the goal, and I think a lot of guys take the "fail is OK" mantra too far, where they think they'll take more action if they can convince themselves that failing is good (a lie).
Yes, "be confident" is one of the worst pieces of false advice ever muttered by a know nothing. Right up there with "just be yourself". It's equivalent to responding to "I can't afford a car" with "just be rich".
Confidence is an effect, not just a cause, and it's cause is years of action in the bank, which erodes uncertainty of the outcome of actions.
Yes, you can fake confidence somewhat, but true confidence comes only through competence.
So many people are to afraid to try and fail. Just learn and adapt if you fail, no biggie.
Some goals are so worthy, it is glorious even to fail. - Capt. Manoj Kumar Pandey
Put your self in a position where you practice... Alot. Always be practicing which will lead you to making mistakes, which will help you improve. But in order to improve you have to have the regimen to always be wanting to learn ie practice. You can't fix what you can't measure so don't just run at something blindly and expect each failure to fix themselves.
The thing is, when you fail don't beat yourself up. Know that you're your own worst critic already so understand that failure will help you improve. There's a book, feel the fear and do it anyway by Susan Jeffers, that explains this very idea.
Use this format not just in dating but in all facets of life
Perfect outlook and perspective that can be applied to all aspects of life!
Brother if you can fake a heart attack you can fake fucking confidence. And it’s really really way above you take a fucking acting class
Sometimes I'll go out with the intention of getting shot down 3 times just to toughen up my ever softening skin.
You all should be doing this.
I've faked confidence tons of times and it worked for me, ended up building my confidence for real.
That's because you moulded yourself into a new character. I covered that in my last post.
It is said that 'Failure is more important than success'. In my life I have not found that to be true, for I have learned a lot more from success than from failure. It is very easy to fail and continue failing, getting stuck in a rut of failure (trying different things and failing each time) as there is an infinite variety of ways to fail. There is only a limited number of permutations of success. Success though shows what needs to be done and one is more likely to repeat the success again.
Isn't faking it till you make it a thing?
very true. I think this applies to almost everything you wanna learn in life.
It should be "be bold" not "be confident."
I'm a professional auto mechanic. When I first started I knew a little bit, and could fix some things, but I constantly made mistakes, broke stuff, screwed up diagnostics, and just generally wasn't all that great. I was kind of timid and reticent, fearing I'd break something again.
Ten years on, I'm now the guy that even the old-timer guys who used to tease me come to for in depth electrical and air conditioning stuff. If I have a job I've never done before, I'm not scared, I just take my time. I know that no matter what, I can figure it out, even if it takes me days or weeks. I even took a teaching gig, because I now want to spread my wisdom to new mechanics.
Don't be afraid to fail, and fail a lot, so long as you learn how not to fail. It's the only way to get better and become The Expert.
I agree with you to some extent, however bro, there's a simpler way to gaining confidence, which is "not to give a fuck", what and I mean by that is to learn to shut down that part of your brain which is constantly analyzing and worrying, and replace it with one that doesn't give a fuck and just wants to enjoy the ride. Now That's confidence!
I've done a lot of failing. I hear it eventually turns around. Read "The Dip" by Seth Godin.
All I end up feeling is confident that I'm going to fail.
I can see that. About the:
Asked this girl out today, damn must have been the first time I asked out a girl in so long (been out of school for a bit) thought it went well, I felt light headed like "Omg did this just happen?" then later on I find out the number is fake.
But anyway what I wanted to get at was the conversation. It was bad, on my behalf. I just rattled off this rehearsed thing in my mind. "Ask her about her days off" If you have a day you both are off ask about going to the movies." If not, get her number to get talking... It was this procedural thing... and also I hadn't really talked to her much... so yeah I mean it was probably doomed to fail from the start. I mean I'm physically built (jacked) but it's the mind that sucks on my part.
How do I improve? Build rapport. Care less. Be in the moment/slow, listen/get response. <[OK]200>
i learned a great deal by failing. actually i found this subreddit a week ago or something and i didn't even learn anything new. all of this i learned with bad expirience and failing already.
310-320 approaches, 20 numbers, 17 make outs, 3 blow jobs and 7 handjobs, 0 sex; logistical fuck up or I do something autistic. All this in 4 years.
Went from can't look a girl in her eyes, stuttering, didn't know how to walk, hold a conversation, speaking very fast and nervously to speaking in a relaxed and slow manner, keeping things light and playful all the time ( i don't get serious unless i'm working), RP tools. I've been lifting as well, haven't changed my style but people who used to know me can see a big difference in me. My HS teacher who used to despise me, flirts with me at the store we buy coffee at.
I used to feel uneasy when someone called me a man, because I still felt like a boy at heart at 20. Now I'm comfortable calling myself one. All the lessons from failure are stepping stones or learning curves. Just mandatory exercises till you get it.
You had 3 blowjobs and 7 handjobs. How can you say 0 sex? So you had 10 sex. And blowjobs are much better than regular sex anyway.
POV counts as sex for me so technically still a virgin
Teacher here. Common refrain in my class..."How do we learn?" "Make mistakes."
well said, you don't even have to go as far as saying "Fly this plane!" since this applies to things in your daily life. When I used to work at Pizza Hut I was nervous as hell to take an order over the phone because I wasn't confident in my abilities to be able to get their order correct
Step 1. Approach. Step 2. Fuck Up. Step 3. Learn and Calibrate. Step 4. Goto Step1.
So you have to crash a 747 to know how to fly one?
Wouldn't failing make things worse? It's like touching something hot, if it hurts once you'll be less likely to touch it again.
No, cuz you learn from your failure and know not to to touch it again
Patrick Star: "Touch"
Hi Kevin
But thats his whole point. You wont touch, ie try again.
That's really bad logic honestly. Also the comparison you used isn't relevant.. touching a hot stove isn't failing, it's either curiosity or stupidity. If you go into social environments and fail and become crippled by it and unable to learn from it you'll never progress.
When you touch something hot, that's your survival mechanism kicking in.
Humans are naturally risk-adverse, and for good reason. Going into an unknown field or forest without any knowledge could mean that you could get eaten by bears.
However, in most cases, we are still wired this way and it's honestly hard to circumvent this knowing it's biological. If you teach your brain that whatever you're doing isn't that bad, it's going to warm up to such scenarios.
This is why we have things like approach anxiety, it's simply a biological reflex we all have ingrained into us.
confidence is something u either have or dont
Disagree.
True confidence comes from mastery.
I never was a natural salesman; I became a great salesman by making cold calls and making mistakes.
I never was a natural at game; I moulded myself into getting good at game.
Even the GOAT of basketball, Michael Jordan, was once told he sucked at playing basketball. He became confident through practice.
so you are proving to me that confidence is something you either have or don't, he was told that he sucked, yet he still went through with something he was confident with. He was confident before he got good or successful
not quite. there are some people who are more confident than others by default, but every human being is changing and evolving by aquiring expirience. same applies for confidence.