335,114 posts

7 Science-Backed Ways To Increase Testosterone

by notamexican1 on /r/TheRedPill
07 March 2018 09:35 PM UTC

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Testosterone is super important for muscle growth, fat loss and a number of other physiological processes such as your mood. The normal range for men is between about 250-1000 ng/dL, while free testosterone is usually 2-3% of this.

Keeping your test naturally high, in a world which cultivates naturally low levels is a powerful way to drive fierce ambition towards your goals.

Lose Weight

If you’re fat then you're testosterone is going to be much lower than it could be. Research has shown that obese people tend to have one-third of the testosterone of their leaner counterparts. This is due to many reasons such as dietary choices, but mainly due to the fact that more fat = more oestrogen and more oestrogen = less testosterone. Keeping your body fat percentage between 8-12% is going to be great for keeping your natural testosterone levels high. 15% is fine too. Anything over 20% or under 8% is going to cause problems.

Strength Training

Strength training is the best type of exercise for boosting testosterone. Research has shown this over and over again - especially large full body compound movements like deadlifts, squats, overhead press and pulls ups. When we compare these type of movements (especially with heavy weight) to isolation movements like bicep curls the difference is profound. Strength training will increase growth hormone (GH) as well as testosterone.

Get Enough Vitamin D

Vitamin D isn’t even a vitamin, it’s more of a hormone which regulates over a 1000 physiological functions - especially in the realm of sexual matters. Having low vitamin D levels is bad for your testosterone. Vitamin D is strongly associated with more testosterone and a stronger libido. Try to get at least 15-minutes of sunlight every day. In winter, a quality vitamin D3 supplement helps.

Dietary cholesterol

Cholesterol which is found only in animal products is really important for testosterone production. It’s actually a baby form of testosterone, a precursor. Our bodies produce our own cholesterol, but research has shown that dietary sources of cholesterol (such as from eggs) will increase testosterone levels. Unless you have the APOE4 gene, dietary cholesterol or even saturated fat for that matter isn’t something you need to freak out about in moderation. Eggs are a great source. However, make monounsaturated fats your main priority (think olive oil and avocados).

Consume enough zinc

Zinc is an essential mineral really important for sexual function among men. Men with zinc deficiency have lower testosterone levels, a lower sex drive and a number of other problems. Zinc is lost with sweat, so it’s particularly important to get enough of if you train hard at the gym. If you’re lacking it in your diet you can consider supplementing with it. Try not to go over 40mg.

Reduce Stress

Stress causes an increase in cortisol. An increase in cortisol isn’t always bad, it serves an important purpose, but too much is bad. Cortisol is synthesised from cholesterol just like testosterone. When you’re too stressed, more cholesterol goes towards synthesising cortisol instead of testosterone. That’s why keeping your stress down is key to increase testosterone levels.

Try intermittent fasting

Intermittent fasting is basically not eating for a certain period of the day. Research shows fasting can increase testosterone short term as well as growth hormone (GH) and androgen sensitivity. Fasting may help you get more out of less testosterone, basically, this means you get more bang for your buck!


To summarise:

  • Lose body fat and keep it between 8-15%
  • Strength train and do compound exercises instead of more cardio
  • Get enough sun or supplement with vitamin D3
  • Eat enough dietary cholesterol/fat (be careful if you have the apoe4 gene).
  • Get enough zinc, especially if you exercise
  • Reduces stress to reduces cortisol
  • Try intermittent fasting
















Post Information
Title 7 Science-Backed Ways To Increase Testosterone
Author notamexican1
Upvotes 964
Comments 243
Date 07 March 2018 09:35 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/49100
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/82s22k/7_sciencebacked_ways_to_increase_testosterone/
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163 upvotesapex_3132 years ago

The primary scientific reason that being fat lowers your test is that body fat contains aromatase, an enzyme that converts test to estrogen. As you lose body fat, you lower your levels of aromatase and lower the conversion rate. You can have high estrogen and high test (ask bodybuilders who forgot to add an aromatase inhibitor to their stack and got gynocomastia), so it's not quite as simple as most estrogen = lest testosterone. It's all about the aromatase.

Being fat probably also just generally lowers your metabolic efficiency too and this probably would mess with your hormone profile even if you took an aromatase inhibitor.

Moral of the story: don't be fat.

Edit: everyone has aromatase. Fat or not. Fat people have more. Some estrogen is necessary in men for proper health. You can't get a boner without estrogen. If you crash your estrogen levels with too-high doses of aromatase inhibitors, you'll have unpleasant side effects. Fat will just govern the rate of conversion of test into estrogen. More fat means a higher rate.

133 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Moral of the story: don't be fat.


But seriously, being fat has no upsides. Fat people are just too lazy to fulfill the basic requirements to be a healthy person: Diet and Exercise. I would know because I've been fat my entire life.

1 upvotesbeam_me_up20172 years ago

But seriously, being fat has no upsides.

Whoa whoa whoa.

I'm pretty sure they float easier.

71 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

And you can cut them open and live inside them if you get stuck in a blizzard on Hoth

27 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

OP we need an edit.

If traveling to a dangerously cold place, bring a fatty

7 upvotesVanRedPill2 years ago

LPT is always in the comments

9 upvotesTheRedPike2 years ago

Sidebar material right there.

20 upvotesstixx_nixon2 years ago

Fat people are also harder to kidnap.

tl:dr eat moar cake

-1 upvotesjoedevice2 years ago

Similarly, I've been lifting for 7 years and am now 200lbs lean. I no longer float, I sink.

23 upvotesPournoPete2 years ago

Acceptance is the first step to change. I bet, without even changing WHAT you eat, you could lose weight simply by logging your ingestion. Everything you eat and drink.

You'll have the evidence at your finger tips and you'll be forced to accept that you ate that entire box of mac and cheese and/or drank 144oz of PBR in one sitting.

10 upvotesnesushi2 years ago

Get out of my head! How do you know what I ate tonight!? And last week, and three nights a week for the last ten years... But why am I fat? I was a Marine, what happened? Oh, right, that.

15 upvotesImHerWonderland2 years ago

Eating like a marine, while not excersising like a marine. I fell in that trap when I left the army.

5 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Exactly this.

All most people need to do (me included) is keep track and be accountable for a bad diet. Nothing fancy. Your guilt does most of the work for you.

In my personal case I've used keto to drop 30lbs, but I still need to work harder on increasing my willpower and discipline in order to stick with it and not relapse.

3 upvotesPorcelainBeast2 years ago

Used to be obese, 325, now 190, yea I was lazy.

2 upvotesquazimodo_0072 years ago

Gladiators used to stay a little fat to protect vital organs in battle!

1 upvotesRedwallAllratuRatbar2 years ago

Less wrinkles

1 upvotesrkoy12342 years ago

being fat has no upsides.

It's easier to gain strength/muscle when you're fat. As a former skeleton, it took me a long time to lift heavier than my fat friends who never worked out.

10 upvotesTheSecondRunPs12 years ago

False, it's easier (and necessary when you aren't a beginner anymore) if you are in a caloric surplus. Fat people start off stronger because their muscles generally naturally get stronger from carrying round more weight on their frame before weight training.

1 upvotesrkoy12342 years ago

Fat people [...] naturally get stronger from carrying round more weight

Which leads to easier gains without having to work as much as I did. I feel like I'm missing something here. Isn't what you're saying basically what I commented?

1 upvotesAdam13942 years ago

Which leads to easier gains without having to work

Check 'em next time, when they have to hit the stairs for 3-4-5 floors.

3 upvotesSocialJusticeWhiner2 years ago

Also if your dick can get hard but your orgasm is weak you may not have enough estrogen.

1 upvotesapex_3132 years ago

Didn't know that! Good info.

3 upvotesVicJackson2 years ago

Some of the strongest guys I've met have had pretty high body fat though. Guarantee these guys were out lifting people with 8-15% body fat.

16 upvotesapex_3132 years ago

Totally possible. You need caloric surplus to build muscle and strength. Eventually that will lead to excess body fat that you need to diet off. But some people don't care and just leave it because they like being big and strong more than looking ripped. More power to them if they can maintain high test and strength with high body fat. If he's a strong mother fucker with high natural or unnatural test he can still get strong even with higher than optimal estrogen. But if he diets that fat off he'll probably end up with a more favorable hormonal profile.

I don't think this post is directed at those types of people though.

3 upvotesjoedevice2 years ago

You also need a surplus to put in effort in the gym. After a few weeks strict cutting workouts inevitably become lackluster compared to if you were eating.

5 upvotessavagepatchkid2 years ago

That's because powerliftifers =/= bodybuilders

2 upvotesAnon2414692 years ago

I agree, but there is definitely a difference between the kind of fat you're talking about and "overweight" (more massive than the average male of the same height). Take an NFL RB for example: James White for the Patriots is 5'10" at 205 lbs in his mid-20s. A BMI calculation on 5'10" 205 lbs says he's at the upper end of "overweight." But take a look at his pictures. He's no fatty.

If another guy at 5'10" went on a see-food diet (I see food, I eat it) and never exercised, and got to 205, THAT is the kind of fat you don't want to be. But 5'10" @ 205 lbs of muscle is actually quite ideal. I think women tend to find that more attractive than the 6' guy who is a lean 170 lbs.

1 upvotesapex_3132 years ago

I agree. BMI is some idiotic concept developed by the medical profession to tell fat people how exactly how fat they are in a vain hope to get then to stop driving up our insurance premiums. Aromatase isn't contained in mass, it's contained in body fat. So the amount you have is governed by body fat percentage, a far more useful number than BMI. I try to never talk in terms of overweight. Just fat.

I think you have a good grasp on women's preferences there. 5'10 205 at 10% is fucking jacked. Honestly he might intimidate women in a bad way. Either fantastic genetics and a ton of dedication or steroids. In you're example genetics and dedication. And he's probably above 10 percent. (if he is 10 percent, he's ffmi 26.6. plug it in to a fat free mass index calculator. That's a good estimation of if someone is naturally not. 26 or 27 is suspicious but sometimes attainable). That height and 10 percent at 190 would probably make for quite a good physique. If he was a true 10 percent. Don't trust body fat scales or calipers, they estimate way low. But they estimate consistently low so they're good to track if you're gaining or losing body fat. Just not for a precise measurement.

1 upvotesmugatucrazypills2 years ago

BMI isn't idiotic. Nor is is gospel of fat. It's a quick back of the envelope calculation to tell you if you're outside the normal healthy range. Maybe you have legit reasons for being out of range and that's fine too(professional athelete would count)me But a public health epidemic of fat you need a quick and dirty way to triage and get resources to the piggies you can help. (Or decide who is beyond saving)

1 upvotesapex_3132 years ago

Fair enough. I guess it's useful at a collective level, but I find it is not very useful from the perspective of an individual perusing personal fitness.

1 upvotesTheHandsomeMF2 years ago

Somebody has been reading Return of Kings lately.

3 upvotesapex_3132 years ago

Haha, actually never heard of it. Book or blog?

1 upvotesapex_3132 years ago

Nice! Good post. I agree 100%

1 upvotesNosism2 years ago

You sound smart.

If I like experimenting and am plateauing, are there legal chemicals I can imbue myself with that would offer performance enhancing results?

2 upvotesapex_3132 years ago

Thanks! Yeah, they're called sarms. Selective androgen receptor modulators. Do your research though. Lots of them can shutdown your natural test production just like steroids. So you'll need what's called post cycle therapy to bring it back up. And they're all unregulated so you need to make sure you pick a reliable company. There's a YouTube channel called "more plates more dates" who talks about them a lot. He's a good scientific dude with an obvious red pill mindset. If you haven't already, look into your diet and routine before you look into chemicals. Diet is huge. You might be able to break through just by eating more food. Or getting more and better sleep.

0 upvotestanlkula2 years ago

What if I were to be bulking? I have a pretty good amount of muscle but at about 22% body fat. Do I just accept it and wait till I cut down the fat? Does aromatases function differ with muscle mass?

2 upvotesSalted_Pretzel2 years ago

Depends on your goal. At the end of the day it's your body.

2 upvotesapex_3132 years ago

I hear bulking is most efficient between like... 10 and 18 percent fat. But everybody's body is different. If you're happy with how you look and you're making gains in the gym, don't mess with a good thing. If you feel that maybe it's time for a cut, I'm sure it'll work out. Maybe wait until you plateau.

110 upvotesYourgonnagofarkid2 years ago

Biggest one for me: Get enough sleep. THe amount of sleep you would normally have when you dont have an alarm and go to bed early.

26 upvotesdickcurls2 years ago

This is probably the biggest one that all of the others revolve around. If you are stressed or worried, you probably can't sleep. And that will stump your gains. That's why ZMA exists. (Zinc, magnesium, by)

1 upvotes123xyz123xyz2 years ago

Curious: what's the A in ZMA? Zinc and magnesium and ___?

9 upvotessssimasnek2 years ago

Zinc Magnesium Asparate. Has B vitamins in it too I believe

2 upvotesMarsupian2 years ago

B6, I think the full name is aspertate or something hence the A.

2 upvotesjoedevice2 years ago

Vitamin B6

22 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago


8 upvotesgreatslyfer2 years ago

That's from a testosterone level standpoint.

From a workout standpoint, it's exercise>food~>sleep.

3 upvotesrigbyismyhomie2 years ago

I agree, but for those reading sleep should not be overlooked. You need an adequate amount of sleep or you miss out on gains.

Resistance training breaks down muscles. Your gains occur by the body adapting to workout-induced stress and rebuilding the muscles and connective tissue to make you stronger/bigger. This process occurs during the latter stages of NREM sleep. Additionally, sleep is the body's natural time to regulate hormones, including testosterone and growth hormone: both necessary to maximize gains in strength and hypertrophy.

2 upvotesgreatslyfer2 years ago

I would have thought that getting in enough protein would also be necessary in order to build additional muscle on top of just keeping your regular muscle.

No additional protein would mean that the one of the requirements for the building of additional muscle isn't met as well, right?

I mean I don't think that the priority of one component being more important than the other for building muscle PAST beginner gains is correct. You need all of them done well.

2 upvotesrigbyismyhomie2 years ago

Of course. Eat big to be big, if your body doesn't have the proper nutrition it needs it can't pack on muscle. In fact, I believe that I've seen that protein synthesis is enhanced when you have a serving of protein before bed, but I'm not somewhere that I can pick up a cite right away.

I was just talking about how sleep shouldn't be overlooked, not about nutrition/lifting.

41 upvotesCoroshi2 years ago

Zinc will increase testosterone only if there's a deficit within the body. Otherwise - no effect. Intermittent fasting has no anabolic effect, there is no testosterone spike (since insulin decrease is detrimental to testosterone), there is only spike in HGH (growth hormone) which is a defense mechanism against the breakdown of amino acids (adaptation of the human body to food scarcity, effects of which are simulated through intermittent fasting).

32 upvotesAmbiguousdude2 years ago

I like the quality pub med referencing 10/10

32 upvotesRedPilledRoaster2 years ago

You forgot sleep. Not getting enough sleep kills T.

1 upvotesThePwnter2 years ago

Also that study that found the magic number for no-fap time frame is one week for the highest free T level. Your T levels peak at about one week (~1-2days) from your last sexual encounter (be it your hand, or a plate). Anytime after that week however and your T levels will gradually start declining to a lower level if you don't have any more sex. They will stay lower until your next encounter, and then rise again to the peak a week after.

1 upvotesbl_122 years ago

Levels shoot up at around 7-8 days after last ejaculation. They then slowly return to base. They do not decrease below base. There's a difference. I believe they even stay at a higher level though. I can tell you the longer I abstain, my voice stays much deeper, I grow much thicker and more abundant hair, and just feel a million times better in general. NoFap saved my life and I'm barely exaggerating.

14 upvotesJoehogans2 years ago

Had similar results myself. Deeper voice, more confidence than I've had in years. Happier. Music and art have a much more profound impact on me. It truly can change one's life you if take it seriously and don't edge. I think the T hits a new normal as experienced through prolonged energy and endurance.

4 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

NoFap saved my life and I'm barely exaggerating.

Jesus Christ how bad were you?

10 upvotesempatheticapathetic2 years ago

Usually it's the start of being able to form anti destructive habits. No fap was my first self improvement 'challenge' that drastically put me on a better path in life.

5 upvotesdowild2 years ago

for many people it's their "keystone habit". Another big one is meditation for others

9 upvotesTheProphetPhysiquiel2 years ago

Your free test levels increase after a week, but the reason they decline after is because your body starts to make use of the extra T.

7 upvotespoopiepeter2 years ago

Any scientific evidence for this?

7 upvotesLeftHookTKD2 years ago

Bro science. Don't pay attention to anything posted on this sub without full studies backing it up.

-5 upvotesThe_Noble_Lie2 years ago

I can see if there's research on this but on first take: logic....where else did it go? Piss / excrete / sweat it out?

2 upvotesjuhlordo2 years ago

do you think low T is a result of peeing/ sweating it out? lol

1 upvotesThe_Noble_Lie2 years ago

No I was being kind of sarcastic (non obvious now that I read it again) and I suppose all who downvoted me misunderstood. I was making the point that one can logically come to the conclusion the body utilizes the excess (reabsorption to some extent)

3 upvotesjonib0ni2 years ago

Very interesting, do you have a link?

Edit: Just noticed this might come off as sarcastic, it is not though. Genuinely interested.

1 upvotesarthurabyssal2 years ago

I heard that your T levels don't decrease per se, but that your T receptors become more sensitive to accomodate the higher levels of T, therefore your body uses more so that's why less is registered in blood readings. Can anyone confirm this?

1 upvotesPorknbe4nz2 years ago

There's nothing I love more than rigorously pounding a plate

58 upvotesempatheticapathetic2 years ago

I try to consciously live a T boosting lifestyle but lack a huge factor: having sex. Add sex.


9 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Ejaculating lowers the amount of your androgen receptors which will make testosterone have less of an impact.

28 upvotesshankzilla2 years ago

HIIT has been found in instanly boost Test up to 2 days after perfomring it. It's incredible, and probably the second best thing you can do to increase test. The first would be strength training for legs. Once I found this out, I started doing leg days twice a day. Now I got the lower half of a muhfucking stallion, and my dick is tip top magoo!

1 upvotesezpc5102 years ago

leg days twice a day

Jesus christ thats the worst typo Ive ever seen in my life

11 upvoteskillking722 years ago

I always do my problem areas after leg day. If I remember correctly it's the day after legs that the test boost is the highest. Gotta get rid of this poverty bench I have going.

2 upvotesInquisitiveOne2 years ago

What is HIIT??

4 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

High Intensity Interval Training

5 upvotestimowens8622 years ago

That doesn't boost your test. Everything in this article is only going to raise your testosterone by negligible levels. Inject testosterone if you want more test. It's the only way that works worth a damn

3 upvotesgrowinglats2 years ago

Agreed... also, studies show a correlation between strength/muscle mass and high test. Obviously the high test could cause the increased strength, not the other way around.

I’m natty, but people need to realize that if you want to change your T levels, taking a ton of vitamin D isn’t going to get you juicy. That’s more for if you somehow completely lack vit D

22 upvotesoldslut2 years ago

good advice, but the vitamin d, especially at higher levels like 2,500-5000 iu per day, like i take, it should be taken in combination with magnesium and K2 to prevent problems...

see here https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/10/19/vitamin-d-vitamin-k2.aspx

2 upvotesno922 years ago

I agree with the k2 but why magnesium?

4 upvoteswtf7932 years ago

Magnesium is used up when the body absorbs the stored Vitamin D..

1 upvotesRollo_Mayhem32 years ago

do i have to take them together or can I take them hours apart. like my D3 before bed and my k2 upon waken...I take a variety of other supplements during meals and sometimes forget to take them all.

1 upvotesDamnDatAssSoFine2 years ago

Man, I’m gonna swear by zinc. Not just because it the T, but because it’s a goddamn miracle for your immune system.

3 upvotesIhatemoi2 years ago

what kind of zinc do you consume?

96 upvotesRPAlternate422 years ago

Can't I just shove a cucumber in my ass and wrap my cock in a pork loin?

64 upvotesColdIceZero2 years ago

I mean, you can. We all relax in different ways.

14 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Do it for science and get back to us, this is a forum for testing socially questionable theories after all.

8 upvotesAbjectRepentance2 years ago

Brings a whole new meaning to getting vitamin D directly...

4 upvoteskillking722 years ago

I mean it's recommended to buy a squat plug when you get experienced enough at weightlifting.

1 upvotesAkeb2 years ago

Finally some real solutions

26 upvotesYesIStick2 years ago

My favorite method is 500mg of test, 300mg of deca weekly with 25-50mg dbol daily and 12.5mg aromasin every other day

5 upvotesgoriladevainilla2 years ago

Lol I just run 500mg of test and people are worried about the health effects. Some reason I thought people in here would want to be able to fuck like a bull and have super human strength.

2 upvotesListen_up_slapnuts2 years ago

What is aromasin?

6 upvotesYesIStick2 years ago

An aromatase inhibitor which prevents excess testosterone from being converted to estrogen. A paramount piece to running steroids, it reduces side effects, health risks, and ensures you don’t grow boobies

1 upvotesNonstopas2 years ago

Serious question, i think that when you're 5'8 and even lifting naturally doesn't really boost your chances much, you think hopping on gear would be the right thing to do? I have 6 years of experience already, but in my mind in 10 years when im 30 im thinking to at least hop on TRT to keep myself going.

I don't want to fuck my liver and other organs by using too much, maybe just test and deca is enough at low dosages?

1 upvotesWhorehouseVet2 years ago

Go to the steroids sub and read their wiki front and back 5x before you hop on.

KISS, use test first and get a feel of it.

1 upvotesPorcodiolurido2 years ago

Enjoy your bowel cancer and your tits. I've lost some friends for that.

1 upvotesYesIStick2 years ago

Your mom seems to like my tits

1 upvotesPorcodiolurido2 years ago

You will tell her directly, since you'll soon be dead, too.

19 upvotesMcRoddy2 years ago

I heard Ashwagandha and Creatine also help. I've been doing all of this and nofap/coldshowers/meditations and I have noticed my facial hair growing extremely quick along with supreme energy and focus.

8 upvotesempatheticapathetic2 years ago

Ashwagandha is great. I use it frequently but sometimes it definitely feels like it has lowered my T due to whatever imbalance of estrogen and T is going on at any moment.

2 upvoteswtf7932 years ago

Yeah for some weird reason it felt like it was killing my libido, even though that's the exact opposite thing it's supposed to do.

3 upvotesempatheticapathetic2 years ago

Sometimes when I take it there's a period of a few hours where I feel lower T but then it jumps up later on. Not sure why. I'm guessing it's something to do with estrogen.

I take it regularly enough that I'm not thinking about the effects of it and psyching myself out when I take it.

1 upvotesArabian_Wolf2 years ago

Any good brand for Ashwagandha?

Don’t want to fall for scams.

2 upvotesempatheticapathetic2 years ago

I don't know where you live and what brands you have available to you.

Supposedly there is shitty ashwagandha and then pure shit sold by its chemical name (KSM-66). I bought seven hills brand, then bought a brand called aktiv foods. Now on another bag of seven hills.

I buy the powder because it's hugely cheaper than the pills. I can't seem to find pure KSM-66 powder.

16 upvotesgoriladevainilla2 years ago

I just blast 500mg a week. Never felt better! Put on 40lbs in the last 7 months.

7 upvotesYoasted2 years ago

same, can honestly say it was one of the best decisions I've ever made in my life.

10 upvotesgoriladevainilla2 years ago

The benefits are unreal yet it seems like people are against anabolics here. More energy, higher sex drive, more confidence, more strength and endurance just to name a few. Wonder if the same people attack cheeseburgers, fried food, and ice cream the same way...

4 upvotesjoedevice2 years ago

They see it as 'cheating'. And it is. Life on cheat mode. I love it.

1 upvoteswaveinthe442 years ago

Can I "supplement" test as a 19 year old or nah?

1 upvotesgoriladevainilla2 years ago

It's not recommended unless you are actually low until at least 24. Legally you would need to cheat a blood test if your levels are normal. To do that just sleep less than 4 hours the night before, drink a big gulp soda, and eat some crispy cream doghnuts right before. Sugar and lack of sleep will crash your test. Other option is to just buy illegally.

1 upvoteswaveinthe442 years ago

I was thinking of buying them. Wouldn't it fuck my natural test levels though? So it'd be a lifelong commitment?

1 upvotesgoriladevainilla2 years ago

Kind of, but they act like you still don't have to put in the hard work and eat like an animal to gain weight.

1 upvotesmonkeysword882 years ago

Don't you have to stay on it for life, though? I thought that once you start adding tons of test that way, your body starts producing less to compensate and your natural production stays low even when you stop juicing.

4 upvotesjoedevice2 years ago

Your testosterone starts decreasing from they age of 25-30 anyway. TRT in older men is becoming a more common thing due to the massive quality of life improvements it's been shown to provide.

2 upvotesIhatemoi2 years ago

I am 25 lol. What is the safest way to supplement with T? I dont want my levels to decline. I lift, clean eat, sleep well and try to bang often.

1 upvotesjoedevice2 years ago

steroids or testosterone subreddits and do you research

2 upvotesgoriladevainilla2 years ago

Probably so, but I have no intention of ever coming off. I guess it depends on the lifestyle you want to live.

1 upvotesOppressions2 years ago

Are there not detrimental effects from long term use?

1 upvotesgoriladevainilla2 years ago

You need to watch what you eat to keep your cholesterol low, but I don't see that as a bad thing. Also need to take milk thistle to keep liver enzymes down. As long as you aren't abusing something like HGH you don't have to worry about organ growth or anything. Overall on just Testosterone I think I live a healthier life than off.

10 upvotesOppressions2 years ago

I've just never seen a method of cheating our physiology that doesn't eventually come back to bite us. If its working for you though, fair enough.

2 upvotesWhorehouseVet2 years ago

BnC? What's your cruise dosage?

1 upvotesgoriladevainilla2 years ago

500mg a week. I'm gonna drop to 250mg once I get where I want to be. Dr Tony Huge on youtube says you can maintain a lot of mass on that dose.

1 upvotesWhorehouseVet2 years ago

Personally I think 250 is a bit high for cruise. I'm doing 100mg now basically just a TRT dosage to. Have you had your blood work done while cruising at 250? Curious to know what they look like.

6 upvotesFulp_Piction2 years ago

Great post. No bullshit, well documented.

I would say get bloods done, check your T levels, sort out all this shit, check bloods again, go for HRT if you need to.

Edit: OP, 250ng/L is pretty low, as far as I know the 'acceptable' range was reduced to this from over 300ng/L recently. You should still probably aim for around 800ng/L (?) going off Joe Rogan and the Art of Manliness blog post. Worth a look if you're serious about upping it.

17 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Surprised that you didn't throw in Keto: hormone production requires efficient fat metabolization. Being fat adapted before taking on intermittent fasting will make a world of difference.

Regardless, awesome write up. If you hadn't made this post I was going to write up something similar this weekend. Glad somebody did it!

1 upvoteswhitlad2 years ago

I heard that keto can lower testosterone as you need carbs to create test, especially if your work out.

3 upvotesvelinxs2 years ago

You need dietary fat to produce test. You need carbs though for protein reuptake however. Aka need carbs for gains.

1 upvotestotally_not_a_pirate2 years ago

A soft clarification for the guys looking for ketogains. You need glucose for anabolic prioritization. The body can create its own glycogen with fatty acids and protein, the real trick is to balance to types of fats you're eating. Grain-fed and processed meats have a ratio of almost 50:1 omega-6 to omega-3.

TL;DR Eat more eggs, green veges, fish, and nuts than red meat at a caloric ratio of roughly 3:1.

1 upvotesvelinxs2 years ago

Definitely not a gains pirate. Good info.

1 upvotesarthurabyssal2 years ago

You only need carbs for the insulin spike for protein uptake of you start deceloping levels of insulin resistance (most people probably have it to some degree) which is caused by long-term consumption carbohydrates (yes even in athletes like marathon runners). Its a vicious cycle. Better to just have less carbs so cells can take up protein better and carbs when you do rarely have them ;)

4 upvotesGreek-God-Brody2 years ago

If you work out and doing keto, you're better with strategically consuming some carbs. Either pre/post workout (TKD) or by doing a refeed day (CKD). Physically active and insulin sensitive people can get away with maintaining ketosis while consuming a bit more carbs than sedentary people.

1 upvotesarthurabyssal2 years ago

Not so. Marathon runners also develop insulin resistance. Look up Tim Noakes.

2 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Being fat reduces testosterone as well, keto only needs to be done for about 6 months to a year for you to reap the benefits. Coupled with intermittent fasting and you can go up to 100-150grams per day- plenty of carbs.

2 upvotesseattleron2 years ago

Coupled with intermittent fasting and you can go up to 100-150grams per day- plenty of carbs.

You saying if you keto+IF for around a year your body will be so fat adapted you can afford to eat 100-150 grams of carbs and stay fat adapted?

If so, do you have a link? Genuinely curious.

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Anecdotal. I've been eating a shit ton of carbs for two months under OMAD. Unbelievably, I still have a six pack.

2 upvotesseattleron2 years ago

I've heard OMAD/IF with long breaks can lead to fat loss WITHOUT lowering cals/macro content.

Have you not gained any weight?

2 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

I'm fluctuating between 185 and 197. Lowest I've been is 174. Still see veins, still have visible abs without flexing.

It's hard to say. It's most likely water weight. Every 2 weeks I do a 48 hour fast, so that may skew results.

2 upvotesarthurabyssal2 years ago

Going low carb but not ketogenic lowers T Bad to be in the halfway zone of low carbs but not ketosis

6 upvoteseveryone_wins2 years ago

Fasting does the same thing that keto does in terms of fat metabolism. Just FYI. I personally can't eat keto because I don't eat meat. I do fast and have been for years. I think it's much better than keto for a variety of reasons.

10 upvotes2comment2 years ago

Water fasting is much healthier.

3 upvoteseveryone_wins2 years ago

That's what I do. Usually my fast lasts 24 hours. I've been doing it regularly for years now. If you added up all my fast days, they would add up to more than a year.

4 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Rumor has it that 1 day of dry fasting equates to 3 days of water fasting after the second day. I'll be trying out a dry fast in the coming months and post my progress.

3 upvotesdestraht2 years ago

I suppose that you would want to drink tons of water and no caffeine the day before. Maybe put in a bit of Himalayan sea salt to hold onto it. It just seems like a long time without water if you don't setup properly.

[edit] Also skip dinner the night before to reduce the water needs of your intestines.

3 upvoteseveryone_wins2 years ago

Where did you hear that? And what do you mean by equates?

3 upvotesseattleron2 years ago

I hear a dry fast can cure a lot and even kill parasites that you had no idea you had in your system.

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Yeah, I've heard the horror stories as well. I'll confirm for science.

8 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Some individuals struggle with skipping breakfast right off the bat. You're talking about going from 1st gear to 5th gear. I'm simply pointing out that there are steps you can take to help transition to intermittent fasting without feeling withdrawals.

I'm well aware that your body enters a state of ketosis whilst fasting, I'm the nutritionist of my gym and have practiced OMAD for the last year. This sub is about explaining why things work. There's more to intermittent fasting than just telling someone "skip breakfast."

2 upvotes102117991072 years ago

How do you find heavy lifting on SS or an intermediate program like Texas Method or HLM while doing keto? I'm researching keto as the option to go to after this cut.

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Hard to say. My first year of lifting took place after I started keto and fasting. I did start clocking in single sets of squats at 315lbs and deadlifts at 400 without eating the until 2 hours after the lifts. I'd say that's pretty good for a guy who didn't use supplements.

I only started lifting to supplement my MMA training. It was just a coincidence for me that trp holds lifting as a central tenet. Took a month off for family reasons. I'm looking into going on the Texas method coming back.

0 upvoteseveryone_wins2 years ago

Hunger pangs are all in the mind. Most of our ancestors skipped two or more meals on a regular basis. Modern man is too soft. Fasting is one of the easiest ways to harden and strengthen one's will and resilience. Keto will not do this. No pain, no gain.

I personally think that keto is one of the worst diets because it results in the high consumption of animal products. Many studies have shown that a diet high on animal protein can lead to cancer, heart disease, and diabetes. As a nutritionist, you should be well aware of that. I'm surprised that this diet is not completely pasé by now.

8 upvotesFedor_Gavnyukov2 years ago

the amounts of test you may raise with vitamin d and zinc is insignificant. fasting is the same. especially zinc, most of the world is not deficient in zinc, especially western countries. bro science all around. the only difference you'll ever see is through lifting, especially stressing large muscle groups like legs, stress relief and a ton of sleep.

3 upvotesthewrecker82 years ago

While I don't necessarily disagree with this whole test boosting thing (more referring to the ads of test boosters and other bullshit. I don't think if you're dealing with legit low T (which you'll only ever know if you actially get bloodwork done). You're not going to see any noticeable difference even if you manage to boost your test levels by 10%. Test levels fluctuate naturally throughout the day. If you're at say 700 ng/dl which is perfectly fine. You're not going to feel like superman at 770. You'll likely never notice the difference.

I agree going from overweight to lean will provide a confidence boost and overall better health which will make you feel considerably better. And by all means if you do in fact have low T by getting tested I'm all for looking for ways to boost it naturally.

However I think all the advertising is making a lot of guys hear the symptoms and say "I have some of those symptoms. I have low T!". Get your shit checked and don't freak out if you're not at 1000. Everyone's natural levels are different and they fluctuate with a ton of factors. Lack of sleep, stress, alcohol, time of day, etc etc etc can all lower it to a degree. If you've ever been drinking and horny your test levels are lower than your normal by "x" points but you're not suffereing a lack of sex drive then even if you're 10% lower than you normally are.

5 upvoteslotikpotik2 years ago

Lose Weight

insignificat increase in testosterone, that doesn't mean u shouldn't lose weight.

Strength Training

increase? yes, significant? nope https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2796409

and in your own linked study about zinc it also says that exercise reduces thyroid and sex hormones, if you want significant increase, you better squat on needles.

Get Enough Vitamin D

really important hormone, but the increase is significant only if u are deficient in vitamin D, if u live in northern europe, that vitamin is a must.

Dietary cholesterol

vegans have higher testosterone levels, your body makes enough cholesterol, more doesn't mean better.

Consume enough zinc

works really well if u are deficient on it, if u exercise you should supplement for it, cuz alot of it is lost through sweat.

Reduce Stress

low T makes people stressful, more like increase test. anyway i didn't find any real studies how stress affects T levels but i mean, stress is always there, and it's said that men with high T go through it with ease, so it makes sense to increase T because stress is always there.

Try intermittent fasting

works i guess, it is said that everytime you eat there's a decrease in T levels, cant find the study rn, but it makes sense to IF to hold your basal T levels longer i guess, don't know how significant it is.


This is the best way to increase T that is actually significant anything else is pretty much meh.

3 upvotesSkinnynomore2 years ago

I prefer steroids. 1000% scientifically proven to increase testosterone.

3 upvotesbigdack14882 years ago

And take super male vitality ! Lol jk

3 upvotesjust_wannabe_happy2 years ago

Boron is often overlooked; its a mineral increases testosterone quite significantly. ""After 7 days of supplementation, the increase in free testosterone (28.3%) reached significance yet the SHBG decrease was not.""

Reference Naghii MR, et al. Comparative effects of daily and weekly boron supplementation on plasma steroid hormones and proinflammatory cytokines. J Trace Elem Med Biol. (2011)

3 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Thanks dude, very helpful info. It almost seems as if society encourages men to disregard testosterone entirely: "Cholesterol is bad, graze like a cow, get stressed out by current events, it's not your fault you just don't have the proper medication... " ETC.

Obviously I'm preaching to the choir...

3 upvotesDouglasPR2 years ago

I've shared this here once but i think its worth it to share again. guys with low Testosterone, check the internet and see a doctor (endochrinologist) about the use of Clomiphene Cytrate to stimulate your body to produce testosterone. If you take testosterone directly your body will stop producing it. With Clomiphene your body is induced to produce it. It worked for me, my T levels went from 200- to 700. If you want to know more, PM me. All OP's suggestions above are also good advice, I use intermitent fasting and vitamin D.

1 upvotesmeaningintragedy2 years ago

This is interesting af. I will pm you.

Edit: it's prohibited by the WADA so I can't take it.

1 upvotesWallace442 years ago

Bullshit... you just need to lift. Deadlift and squats, and hit a heavy punch bag. Strength+fighting ability = testosterone.

3 upvotesmeaningintragedy2 years ago

Bullshit. I squat twice bw and deadlift 2.5 bw and my last blood test showed low t. Shut the fuck up.

3 upvotesbonusfruit2 years ago

Surprised sleep isn't on here

5 upvotesShinyRedKetoPill2 years ago

When I saw the title I thought this was going to be some spammy bullshit but to the OP’s credit, it is spot on and useful. Even with references. Kudos!

9 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

My problem with losing weight is that I can’t focus it on one area. For whatever reason I just can’t shake the weight no matter how much I lift and diet. The fat just always seems to go straight to my dick.

19 upvotesmarkdumte2 years ago

So what you are saying is that with all that fat your dick is always soft, got it.

2 upvotesListen_up_slapnuts2 years ago

Or he meant to the pad in front of it.

1 upvotesNJA42422 years ago

What's wrong with taking more than 40mg zinc? What does it inhibit

2 upvotesredpilldick2 years ago

Are zinc and vitamin D effectively absorbed through a multivitamin like mens one a day? I heard that although they have good amounts the usable form is reduced and isn't enough

2 upvotesSlySoothSayer2 years ago

The zinc and vitamin d in vitamins are produced synthetically, meaning your body does not absorb all of it very well. No synthetic can beat the real stuff.

2 upvotesempatheticapathetic2 years ago

Nope. Get separate supplements of higher doses and better bio availability. And take them at different times of the day.

2 upvotesamberdus2 years ago

Giggled that vitaminD increases test. Also why should we NOT go over 40 mg of zinc?

5 upvotesioncehadsexinapool2 years ago

Zinc poisoning can permanently fuck your sense of smell and taste. I take 25 only + a multi vitamin

1 upvotesBrutal132 years ago


Why? I read studies and it does.

2 upvotesJackSparrah2 years ago

This is a great list. I’m also really glad to see that I’ve started doing all of those things over the last year or so.

One thing to add to this which I think is important, is “getting enough sleep”. It’s not to be looked over, in addition to everything already mentioned

2 upvotesCozzafrenz2 years ago

question, why shouldnt you go over 40 mg zinc?

3 upvotesRedDespair2 years ago

Too much zinc effects the copper and other elements in your body.

Zinc is like iron and copper. It’s not a vitamin that you just piss the excess.

2 upvotesAustonmatthews3452 years ago

Just take steroids if your test is naturally low.

2 upvotesLuckylancer962 years ago

Hormones are synthesised in small amounts so cortisole cant reduce T levels with cholesterole consumption. There should be a diffrent mechanism.

2 upvotestallwheel2 years ago

I have been doing intermittent fasting for years now, but I think it has made me a bit too scrawny, and I worry about muscle deterioration from lack of protein/calories in the morning. Recently, I have started having a protein shake (or shudder protein bar when I have less time) in the morning during the fasted period. I don't know. Anyone have any advice on whether this is a good idea or bad?

2 upvotessavagepatchkid2 years ago

It's worth noting you won't be seeing these results. There is only one way to boost your T enough to make a difference...

2 upvotesBlackFallout2 years ago

Started working out and Dieting in November. was 237 in November and am now at 217. Its fucking amazing how good Test makes you feel. Confidence has improved 1000%, I feel fucking amazing everyday. Boss asks me how I'm doing and I say fucking amazing, cause I feel fucking amazing. Be fucking amazing.

I've done this before, but stopped working out after a motorcycle wreck. Then gained 30lbs from working 3 jobs. I didn't need to work the 3 jobs but I like to bank that money. Now I'm back to my one full time career job and working out every night after work. Feeling fucking amazing.

Gonna be 200 by summer, then might hit 185 by the end of the year.

2 upvotessadshark2 years ago

D3 is not the same as D and a lot of people keep confusing these 2, even doctors recommending D3 for Vit D deficiencies. D3 helps calcium to be better absorbed but does nothing for your D levels.

The absolute best supplements for Vit D are cod liver oil capsules. They are pretty expensive but are the easiest natural supplements that you can take that have a high concentration of pure vitamin D.

To add to your list. Vit D deficiency leads to depression, severe anxiety, frequent panic attacks. These things can fuck you up long term and after going through all that personally I realised how important Vit D is. Don't ignore it, and dont follow doctors recommending D3.

2 upvoteswtf7932 years ago

Can't stress enough about the Vitamin D. A lot of people are deficient and they don't even know it.
A few months ago, I got some blood work done and I found out my Vitamin D level was 6 . Yes, 6. The normal range is 30-100. I've started supplementing now..

2 upvotesBrutal132 years ago


I get Vitamin D daily after I got the test — was 21.

2 upvoteswrightm4032 years ago

Strength training will not increase testosterone levels for a prolonged period of time - which is what's useful. Strength training may cause small alterations to hormone levels but it's really miniscule.

I measured my testosterone via blood test at my local doctor - fasted, first thing in the morning - I had a level of 680. I then didn't ejaculate once over the space of two months, and measured my testosterone under the same conditions twice during the two months and my levels had increased to 820. No change in workout routine nor diet. I was definately more energetic and horny during those two months so l attribute it to not ejaculating.

5 upvotesbiglaughingcock2 years ago

People want short cuts and instant fixes, not a list of long term and time consuming activities. Your post is fucking retarded. /s

26 upvotesnotamexican1 [OP]2 years ago

BOOST TEST BY 550% in only 5 minutes, just click on my crappy product.

Is that better? lol. I'm pretty sure everyone here is NOT keen for short-term fixes.

4 upvotesdaves523802 years ago

Fuck your link.. 200mg of T-cypionate/week.

1 upvotesWhorehouseVet2 years ago

Just eat a lot of anabolic chicken.

1 upvoteslosttalus2 years ago

But this will increase DHT levels, thus, hair loss.

The whole premise behind finasteride is to lower DHT, not raise it.

1 upvotesWallace442 years ago

Women would rather a high T baldy, than a fullheaded soyboy.

3 upvotesmeaningintragedy2 years ago

Who cares about what women want. Stop being a pussy worshipper.

1 upvotesanonymau52 years ago

Doesn't semen have a good amount of testosterone in it?

2 upvotesmountainbiker1782 years ago

Saliva too

1 upvotesbottar12 years ago

I do all of these 7 things and it changed my life. My days are full I'm always busy and have lots of energy. I went to bed at 2am last night after a workout in home gym and got up for work at 7.30am refreshed. I can't explain it but there's nothing like feeling healthy. Cut out trash like sweets and sugar too.

1 upvotesmeaningintragedy2 years ago

Have you done blood tests?

1 upvotesbottar12 years ago

No. I'm not necessarily saying its test but I was inactive doing no exercise and slightly overweight. Now I'm lean, fit, and always have energy. The activities themselves in the suggestions made me happier/fitter.

1 upvotesgimme3strokes2 years ago

After all this you still might not be where you want to or need to be. Low testosterone is a serious problem that most doctors simply won't address. If you can, locate a low testosterone clinic. Injectable testosterone cypionate is absolutely the best treatment. Yes, you will have to inject and technically you are taking steroids. You will also feel 18 and and be able to perform as so. For some men it will change their life completely. Almost all women will hate this and be against it.

1 upvotesjoedevice2 years ago

For future reference, it'd be much better if you put the relevant references with the correct subheading (seeing as you can't index them and reference them that way).

1 upvotesmitchopatamus2 years ago

Great post, I also just want to stress how important it is to watch what goes into your body. Sugar tanks testosterone, soy and legumes are highly estrogenic, and processed crap in general will also lower T.

Sugar: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/22804876/

Phytoestrogens(legumes and soy): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/21353476/

1 upvotesLOLMUFFINLOL2 years ago

How would I go about getting tested for low testosterone in Canada

1 upvotesPhaedrusHunt2 years ago

These are all very good and things I just kind of do naturally.

Guys if you don't like to lift weights, try chopping wood. Lumberjacks are known for being among the strongest guys for a reason. Chopping wood also is known to build testosterone more than any other exercise.

Also the old wives tale about oysters is because of zinc. It wasn't an old wives tale at all.

1 upvotesamberdus2 years ago

Dude. Because the D gives you test. Do I have to spell this one out?

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Of u over 40 try hormone replament therapy

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Disclaimer: this comment is for guys who truly have low T and an otherwise healthy lifestyle.

Lifestyle is important and is something you should be taking care of regardless.

However, most of this shit is fluff. I'm sorry, but unless you are severely obese, have a huge vitamin d/zinc deficiency, sleep like absolute shit, etc, you are not going to naturally raise your levels from like 200ng/dL to 600+.

I've been quite involved with the male hormone community, and most of the guys don't have any underlying causes that can be identified and corrected naturally. Pretty much the only ones are prolactinomas and severe thyroid issues. The vast majority of cases of bloodwork and lifestyle habits I've seen look pretty normal; leaving clomid, hcg mono, or trt + hcg as the only viable options.

1 upvotesDrakonlord2 years ago

Any evidence martial arts increases T? I do everything on the list and MA feels the same as lifting. More mental than physical though.

1 upvotesBrutal132 years ago

Grappling and rolling BJJ could partly replace lifting. But you need to work hard.

I'd try to combine lifting/MMA.

1 upvotesmetallicdrama2 years ago

I just kegel everyday in a cold shower. Works for me.

1 upvotesrp-Ubermensch2 years ago

Sidenote: Zinc increases the volume of your cum

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Certain foods in your diet plays a role too, least it did for me. I try to get in red meat a couple times a week and almonds every day, it makes a huge difference. Eggs are a good suggestion though, 6 eggs a day if you can handle it works extremely well.

0 upvotesVoltairesTea2 years ago

Dietary cholesterol

Wrong. xD If that was the case you hapless neckbeards would be drowning in pussy.

1 upvotesrektHav0k2 years ago

He’s not talking about VLDL cholesterol that’s produced from sugar. He’s talking about HDL and LDL cholesterols that are produced when you you eat protein and fat.

-1 upvotestimowens8622 years ago

Step 1: inject testosterone Step 2: workout and eat right Step 3: be fucking massive but always trying to get bigger

2 upvotesmeaningintragedy2 years ago

Only agree with 2 and 3. Fuck skinny get huge.

-9 upvotesobipwnobi2 years ago

Here is a study that says vegan men produce more testosterone.


3 upvotesapex_3132 years ago

Probably more to do with hormones in low quality meat in regular diets. And that vegans actually think about what they eat but need to. If you compared fit vegans to fit omnivores who ate high quality meat, I'd bet the vegans would have lower test.

1 upvotes2comment2 years ago

Most vegans I see don't think about what they eat so Idk what you're going on about. The vegan sub has fake meats and cheeses and Ben & Jerry Ice Cream posted like everyday because most of them try to replicate the fat consumption of their previous diet and many of them eat shit.

Eating vegan requires next to no thought, it's pretty much pop a B12 tablet once a week. That's it.

2 upvotesapex_3132 years ago

Maybe it's just that the can't eat at most fast food places and such so they avoid the worst of it. That weird vegan shit they post is expensive. Most of them don't eat it all the time. Either way, I believe vegans on average are probably healthier in various metrics than non vegans on average. But I believe health conscious vegans are probably less healthy in the same metrics than health conscious omnivores on average. Does that sound reasonable?

2 upvotes2comment2 years ago

Vegan junk food is ubiquitous. French Fries. Oreos. Potato chips. Tortilla chips and taco shells. Various sugar cereals. Etc. Taco Bell can be very vegan friendly. Tons of modern day vegans kill their bodies bite by bite.

But I believe health conscious vegans are probably less healthy in the same metrics than health conscious omnivores on average. Does that sound reasonable?

The longest lived populations have pretty much all been starch-based. Look at blue zones. 1940s Okinawans weren't vegan but damn close to it and got 85% of their calories from the sweet potato and ate basically less than a bite of meat a day, on average (some festivals days they'd have their meat, and most other days none).

They also had the most centenarians in the world percentage-wise.


Now they adopted the western diet, they are fast becoming the fattest and sickest Japanese. I have not yet found a health case for meat eating on a population scale.

4 upvotesapex_3132 years ago

Healthy does not necessarily mean long lived. If they do that, their musculature and hormonal profiles will suffer. They might live longer, but life is about living better, not living longer.

2 upvotes2comment2 years ago

By any metric I can see, they were healthier.

In 1946, Steiner examined autopsies of 150 Okinawans, of which 40 were between the age of 50 and 95. Steiner noted only seven cases of slight aortic atherosclerosis, all of which were found in those over the age of 66, and only one case of calcification in the coronary arteries. In 1946 Benjamin reported similar findings from a study of 200 autopsies on Okinawans.12

Even in 1995 the observed rates of coronary heart disease and dietary related cancers, including that of the colon, prostate, breast and ovarian in Okinawa were not only many fold lower than that of the United States, but even significantly lower than that of mainland Japan.

Okinawan's were renowned for being active into their 80s and 90s, and were mentally sharp into their last years, with a dementia/alzheimers a fraction of ours. I'm not sure how this isn't healthier? Are we saying hormone profiles trump actual results?

OTOH, we've see a skyrocketing diabetes rate in Japan after they took up more meat (7x 1950s levels), milk consumption 9x, eggs 3x, and fish 1.25x.... while rice consumption has declined by 1/2, as has potatoes/sweet potatos.


And I'm sure most chronic disease rates are following that trend there. Yet Japanese meat consumption is still quite moderate compared to ours, for instance, they define obese at 25 BMI instead of 30 like we do.

1 upvotesobipwnobi2 years ago

Maybe, maybe not.

3 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

They also had increased globulin, which made their free testosterone (the measure that counts) equal to the other men.

The meat eating men in the study were not necessarily eating the right things to raise their testosterone either. Plenty of other studies show dietary cholesterol intake increases testosterone without the analogous rise in globulin shown here in vegan men.


1 upvotesobipwnobi2 years ago

This still disproves the meat-eaters' claim that they have more T. Vegans also have lower levels of IGF1 which is cancer causing.

1 upvotesnewName5434562 years ago

Can we see, what exactly did they eat?

Without it this study is pretty worthless.

-5 upvotes2comment2 years ago

Dietary cholesterol

Cholesterol which is found only in animal products is really important for testosterone production. It’s actually a baby form of testosterone, a precursor. Our bodies produce our own cholesterol, but research has shown that dietary sources of cholesterol (such as from eggs) will increase testosterone levels. Unless you have the APOE4 gene, dietary cholesterol or even saturated fat for that matter isn’t something you need to freak out about in moderation. Eggs are a great source. However, make monounsaturated fats your main priority (think olive oil and avocados).

Yeah, if there's anything American's don't lack in eating, it's meat. Or per person. And those graphs doesn't even include fish.

Your fact is only true in a short term sense as it will give you a local peak. But in the long-term, you want your testicles to produce your testosterone and your balls, like all your organs, operate best when it has good blood flow. Btw, that's also why so many men this generation have ED, the heart's vessels are the size of a regular straw, the dick's the size of a coffee stirrer.

This means avoiding cholesterol as it contributes greatly to atherosclerosis. And it also means avoiding fatty meals, whether animal or plant based, as those induce postprandial lipemia aka sludgeblood between 6-10 hours afterwards (and if you eat 3x a day, do the math). Or if you want to see it in a test tube.

-1 upvotes2comment2 years ago

And here is the backup about blood flow and testicles reducing testosterone:


And it's no surprise really, we knew since the Korean war study that most western YOUNG men already exhibit some level of atherosclerosis. These days, I think most kids age 10 already have fatty streaks in their blood vessels. Atherosclerosis is the most common cause listed here:


And more about cholesterol:


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