Height-related Red Pills from a Short Man

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June 11, 2018

Hello TRP,

I am what you would consider short. I'm 5'5 barefoot, 5'6 in shoes, and roughly 5'6.5~5'7 in boots. So, while I am not extraordinarily tiny, I am no giant either. Height seems to be a dilemma for a lot of men, and I thought that I would share my advice and perspective as a below-average individual. Let me just say that there is a very good chance you might not agree with everything I have to say, which is fine, these are my own perspectives and nuggets of information and you are free to do with them as you see fit. The purpose of this is, however, to give you the most honest input that I can about the realities of being short and what you can hope to expect.

• I figured I would start out with the most polarizing of statements, but also one which I also feel needs to be said: Being a short man is hard. It is not easy. The deck of life is stacked against you. There are real, tangible benefits to being tall. If you were to ask a short person why they want to be taller, it isn't "just because" or "I want to see from a slightly higher perspective" -- it's because going from short to tall is an objective improvement socially. I do not care if you disagree with this, because if you do, you are wrong. You are wrong like someone who believes that the Earth is flat is wrong. There is a very good reason why certain subreddits dedicated to those of taller stature are considered a whimsical, jovial place to be and those of less than average height are a cesspit of depression and self-hatred. We live in a society where tall is good and short is bad. It is not going to be easy. It is going to hurt. You are going to have to try harder. That's just the way it is.

Height issues, predominantly, affect men. Women always find themselves butting into the conversations of male height-related matters, and it will always perplex me as to why. "Short women have it bad too!" No. A short woman is valued far more in the sexual marketplace than a short man, and that is the stone cold truth. The issues women face with regards to their height might as well be a drop in a swimming pool compared to what men face. Don't believe me? If it affected women to nearly the magnitude which men are affected, height discrimination/short shaming/whatever you want to call it would be ostracized like fat shaming is. Which brings me to:

Do not expect women to understand or empathize with your predicaments as a short man. Society, at worst, actively encourages height shaming, and at best, placates it and allows it to continually fester. And that's because, as stated above, it does not affect women. If someone can make you the butt of a joke to get a cheap laugh in, and they suspect that you're a chump who will take it, they will do it, especially if they are with their friends. Never take this personally. Many people do not know what they want. For a lot of them, their lives are wrought with insecurity and frustration, which is why so many of them are miserable, and sometimes this anger/impoliteness spills out onto you. Which means...

The worst thing you can do is to get aggressive about your height. Being labeled for your height is literally no different than being labeled for your skin color. Someone implying that a short man is aggressive because of his height is just as rotten as someone who implies that a black person is aggressive because "it's just how they are." Society, once again, actively condemns one but makes light of the other (The Napoleon Complex). There is no reason to become upset over small-minded people making small-minded comments. It will only come back to bite you in the ass. I cannot stress this enough, be unreactive when someone makes negative comments about your height. I have been with and dated women who, upon first interaction, had made comments about my height, and because I didn't lose my cool, I was able to take them to bed and prove to them that it didn't bother me. That isn't to say you don't stand up for yourself -- having a spine is very important. But one of the difficulties you will face as a short man is needing to control your temper. You will have a target on your back, and spazzing out will only reinforce the notion that short men are aggressive and angry.

Wearing shoe lifts is no different than wearing makeup. If you feel comfortable wearing lifts in your shoes then fucking do it. Especially if you're going out to a club. Do whatever makes you feel more confident and happy. There is nothing wrong with boosting your height, especially when the fashion and cosmetics industry makes money hand over fist because women are so desperate to hide their imperfections. Just be aware of what this implies: if you think there's nothing wrong with being short, and you are wearing shoe lifts, you are lying to yourself. I am not in the position to tell anyone what they must do, but it is something to consider. Likewise, shoe lifts are not very pragmatic, and will often be uncomfortable after a couple of hours. If you do want to try them, I suggest wearing them for a limited amount of time to gauge how they fit and if it's something you wish to invest in. Frankly, this is 100% a personal decision on your part, and I feel as though it's unfair for men to have to be "boxed in" height-wise where their attempts to be taller are met with scorn while women can literally paint a new face onto themselves.

• Women do not fawn after tall men because they are better protectors, they fawn over them because of the sexual implication. 'Tall man' is a coded phrase for 'big dick.' As stated in my opening paragraph, short men are just as capable of having large packages, but it is a stigma perpetrated by society and people continue to buy into it. The idea is that, if he's a big guy, surely he'll be proportional elsewhere. Furthermore, women, especially short women, want to be dominated sexually. A tall man can pick up and throw women around in the bedroom in a way that short men, simply put, cannot. If a woman were that adamant about being protected, she would carry around a gun. Hell, the average height for a Navy SEAL is 5'9-5'10. Tall men are a sexual thrill and women are too coy to say otherwise. And if they do try to refute this, feel free to remind them of how 50 Shades of Grey, the story of how a young woman is dominated by an attractive, tall, alluring businessman, is one of the most profitable books of the last 50 years.

Being fit/attractive/well-dressed helps tremendously, but it is not a cure-all. A woman who is steadfast about not dating short men is not going to suddenly reconsider you because you have big arms and visible abs or piercing blue eyes. Some will, certainly, but becoming fit and taking care of yourself doesn't tear down walls, rather, it allows you to throw out a slightly larger net. In any case, I would consider weightlifting and being fit as a goal for you and you alone. If you do it, do it because it feels good and it makes you feel more confident, not because it increases your chances of getting laid.

• Women are entitled to their preferences. Let me say that again: women are allowed to have preferences. Women are also allowed to have requirements. You should not feel bad about having requirements, nor should you feel bad about not meeting someone else's. One of my requirements is that my partner isn't hooked on a heavy narcotic. Whether their requirements/preferences are extraordinarily strict or not is entirely dependent upon their own personal beliefs, values, and goals. Do not be upset if you do not fit these. It has nothing to do with you. If you see a tall girl while you're cruising Tinder who has a bio that says "no shorties," do not be offended by it. Many women have height preferences, and about half of those are actually height requirements (i.e must be no shorter than x'y). Unfortunately, because of social conditioning, they are pretty much allowed to say whatever they like about short men and they will most likely get away with it. This is one area in which men need to harden up. You will not be everyone's cup of tea and that is completely okay.

• I wanted to save this one for last, because I think it's probably the most important. You have to accept reality and learn love yourself. You are a human being and you have value. Nobody has the right to make you feel as though you are less of a person just because you don't tower over someone else. Find your hobbies, find your passions, set goals, make connections, experience heartbreak, improve yourself, and live a rich, fulfilling life. As soon as you're born you start dying, and nothing in the world can stop that clock. Life is what you make of it, and you have to find your own meaning. Do not let anything hold you back. You deserve the best. Much love, guys. Shortandspicy out.

Post Information
Title Height-related Red Pills from a Short Man
Author shortandspicy
Upvotes 798
Comments 331
Date 11 June 2018 05:34 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/50780
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/8q72pm/heightrelated_red_pills_from_a_short_man/
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[–]The_Pine144 points145 points  (15 children) | Copy

I'm 23yo and I've been 5'1 for the last 6 years of my life. Just to throw out there that if I get to have an exciting romantic and sex life at this height (and I am by no means shredded or have the biggest frame / game) you all that are taller, shut up and throw yourselves out there into the world. God's speed.

[–]squarehead9311 points12 points  (8 children) | Copy

Do tell about your romantic life. Are you very extroverted? Do you have any hobbies or play any sports? The guys that short that I see pulling are usually very outgoing and athletic, if not ripped, or they're in a band or a DJ or something.

[–]white_girl_lover12 points13 points  (5 children) | Copy

Short guys are great for skateboarding also

[–]squarehead9317 points18 points  (1 child) | Copy

A lot of the short guys I knew in high school that were good with girls fit into the skater/burnout category.

[–]subnauticalife12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy

As a skater/burnout from high school at 5"7, can agree it works better than most people think.

[–]JSuma7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy

Always noticed I’m the tallest at the skatepark. Theoretically I should be able to have better looking tricks with more pop but so far I just fall way harder.

[–]white_girl_lover3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Ik,but when a short guy can appear taller as long as he stays on the board

[–]GranUnic0rn0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I know a short guy like that who is slaying pussy. One pussy consistently but well.

He was extroverted, did exercise, but he is not really "ripped".

[–]The_Pine0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

As many here, I am an introvert made extrovert through necessity. All my pulls have been through college and I play music in a college group. Always try to have more than one social hobby going on. I am very famous in college due to doing things greater than life (see laws of power) and doing shit that express IDGAF at a societal level. No pants subway ride, spreading stickers saying "official fucking spot" everywhere around campus, singing in the corridors, always shirtless, funny dates, etc etc. I guess people are attracted to this vital energ y and they want to be a part of my life. All the shit that is going on in my life just makes me want to LIVE even more. #humblebrag

[–]Redasshole1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Id like a picture of your face. You must be handsome

[–]Fucker_Of_Destiny0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

last 6 years? did you lose height or something?

[–]justintruetho3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Means he stopped growing 6 years ago

[–]The_Pine1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Of course, that and my hability to write.

[–]massivewang139 points140 points  (17 children) | Copy

I’m tall and my buddy is short. I see the dynamic play out often, not only do women give you a hard time when you’re short but dudes do as well. I’ve seen plenty a man mess with my buddy/overstep boundaries simply because he was short. I’ve had to step in a few times to get them to back off.

With that said my buddy has an eccentric sense of style, impeccable game, and has quite the package. He kills it with women because his personality/game are on point. He’s the most socially intelligent person in the room. He knows exactly what’s going on and is never at a loss for words. At the same time he is the most fun person I know. He lives in the moment and can make the mundane fun in a heart beat. He knows the local scene, where all the cool bars/clubs are, and is constantly going to concerts/shows/etc. Women can’t get enough.

I get a lot initial interest because I’m tall and strong (seriously fellas, lift! The IOIs I’ve gotten since adding mass have increased significantly). I do well for myself, but I can’t compete with him at all.

[–]soyelsimba48 points49 points  (9 children) | Copy

You sound like a good wingman dude

[–]massivewang17 points18 points  (8 children) | Copy

I just know the basics. My game is nothing at all like his.

At any rate it's a relationship I'm thankful for. We've had different upbringings and different personalities. There's a level of mutual respect/admiration/appreciation because we both see the best in each other and are both aware of our own flaws. I'm a bit more plan things out and he's far more go with the flow, so we tend to bring good perspective to one another.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I have a buddy like this too. He is getting back in shape. When he was broader shouldered and flatter bellied, women and men gave him more respect. The personality hasn't changed much, just needs to bring his looks back to the table. I have a son who is 5'7" at 16, but with 16" biceps and good build. He pulls girls all day and routinely gets the taller guys to back down because he has a little MMA/wrestling background and just looks like a short guy "better left alone". I'm 34 and won't hesitate to help him tune somebody up if they are 18 or over. "If you can't be tall, be buff"

[–]massivewang3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

What's funny is that a 16 year old with a few years of wrestling could literally beat the shit out of most men assuming the size disparity isn't outrageous. People are so damn confident in their ability to fight not knowing they're a double leg take-down away from a visit to the shadow realm.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Ain't that the truth. I have a little BJJ/Muay Thai training (no belts) but just that is enough to allow me to hold my own. I avoid fights though. As a medical professional, a simple battery conviction could be a career-ender. Damn "Good moral character" requirement. Proud of my kid though. He has it a lot more together than I did back then.

[–]tranquilschizo0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

Damn, wish I had guy friends that were like that? Usually my alphaness gets in the way and I don't know how to fix it/if I do fix it. Where did you meet him? I think more needs to be said on how to find good bro's that will help you out and of course you'd return the favor.

[–]massivewang0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

We use to go to church together (we stopped that a long time ago) and were roommates. To be honest I really don't know how you build relationships like that. They sort of happen organically. All you can do is position yourself to meet people and make an effort to connect with people you get along well with.

I think there's something to be said about being authentic/real. It's worth reflecting/diving deeper to see why your "Alphaness" is preventing you from connecting with friends on a deeper level.

[–]tranquilschizo0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

True. When it comes to girls, every last one of them says that I come off as a player before I even talk. I know this because I've asked tons of random girls and they've all said the same things. Maybe somehow this ties into why I don't get along with guys like that? Never had a friend on my SMV level and I'd like to experience that. Not that I'm some crazy god, but I'm only 17 and not many guys at all my age are into their SMV. I don't know how well it would go trying to be friends with a 25 year old.

[–]massivewang0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

You're 17, don't sweat it. Your world is quite small as a high school student/recent grad. It expands exponentially in college and the work force. You're about to meet all kinds of people, some of whom will be at at your level or higher. Keep doing you, keep your eyes out for good dudes to connect with, and have patience.

I'm 33, I TRPed when i was a 27 year old virgin. Everything has radically changed in the last six years of my life. Be disciplined and be positive because consistent effort pays off.

[–]tranquilschizo0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You're right. Past few years I've been focused on myself. As of now, I don't have a social circle and I only have 1 guy friend. I've always had lots of girls attached to me but I've pushed all my current ones away because of this girl I decided I wanted to be a real boyfriend to. This is pretty new to me because usually I just talked to girls to fuck them, aside from my learning stage at 13. But, I do believe it is the right move to be with this girl. I've never personally met someone smarter than me at my age. She is two years younger and smarter than me. She is also much more farther down the spiritual path than me. Easily the most ambition-filled girl I have ever met. Everything is just falling into place and we don't have any problem whatsoever. She is really the only person I talk to much. Regardless, I am still mentally prepared if it doesn't work out. With that being said, should I try to create a social circle even if I don't desire it? What about finding guy friends?

[–]vsvpcastro7 points8 points  (3 children) | Copy

how do you think someone can improve socially like him?

[–]massivewang4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

I think there's something to be said about your personality. Intrinsically he's a social guy and his mind leans toward the hustle/problem solving. Otherwise just like anything else, you get out there and you work toward improving it.

I don't envy my friend, I think part of his success is because he had a choatic upbringing and he has been on his own since 17. He's quite resourceful, bold, confident, etc as a result. Though at the same time he is quite impulsive, prone to drink, act out, etc.

[–]grewapair1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

  1. Be attractive.
  2. Don't be unattractive.

It's really just that. When you see some short guy who slays, he's just really attractive. Tom Cruise.

I can assure you no ugly short guy slays anything. Doesn't matter how good your "personality" is. If you're ugly, no one wants to get too close.

They'll be happy to laugh at your jokes, but they are NOT dating you. The only exception to this is a girl with no other options will rationalize why she's with a guy because of his great personality. The reality is she's with him because she's bored and has no better options. If that's the type of girl you want, you can get there.

[–]WalterEArmstrong1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

If I was a short unnattractive guy I'd work my ass off and save every nickel I could to get some plastic surgery to improve my looks.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

That's comical. The present and socially competent short man outgames the taller man. Sad but true. Im a 6ft tall pretty jacked guy and i hardly get laid anymore just because my social game isnt what it used to be. Also because i have major depressive disorder with manic episodes due to abusive childhood and several drug induced psychoses. It's all relative, guys.

[–]massivewang8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

In our circle there are three other guys who are handsome as FUCK. Two of them are in the upper five foot range fit but not huge, the other guy is like 6'3 and is fucking JACKED. Chicks swoon over all of them, they don't have to do a damn thing other than not fuck it up. I've never seen anything like it. They kill it on online dating apps and are consistently with the hottest women. I am nowhere near them in terms of looks.

My buddy can out game the lot, but it's funny because he has to work for his success, where these other dudes have won the genetic lottery with their top model looks (that's not to diminish the fact they're fit and lift, but lifting/losing fat can only do so much for your face). It's important to note that my buddy DOES NOT LIFT, his physique is really quite laughable and he doesn't take care of his body that well. With that said he still kills it with women left and right.

Anyway it's all fun and games to me because I am seeing all aspects of this shit play out. The short guy with game, the guy with 1% looks who doesn't have to try, etc. If anything it's reinforced that it's not black and white, that it's not just a matter of "just lift" or game but a variety of factors. And that each person can find their own method of success via the things they can/want/are willing to embrace and improve.

[–]Reaper1967151 points152 points  (25 children) | Copy

I’m 5’6”, the only girls that have ever made fun of my height ended up in my bed. It’s a shit test, handle as any other

[–]darkslayer7612 points13 points  (5 children) | Copy

Would you care to share some examples or tips to an almost same height bro?

[–]Reaper1967123 points124 points  (3 children) | Copy

It’s been said before, don’t let shit bother you. In my experiences I’ve only ever gotten the height made fun of when a girl was interested in me already. They use it to test you. “You’re really short” “Shouldn’t you be taller?” “Is everything that small?” Shit like that. A&A it, flip it, etc. “Damn, you’re observant” “God hates me” “My parents won’t let me” “I’m afraid of heights” “Maybe you can help me grow”

They’re just trying to break your frame, and see your insecurities. If it’s obvious it doesn’t bother you, it’s not going to be an issue. You’re only as strong as your weakest insecurity.

[–]darkslayer7610 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy

Thank you, really appreciated. Apparently not only useful to me, looking at the upvotes.

[–]Stormhammer9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

Honestly, just treat height like it's never an issue, never was an issue, and never will be an issue.

... because it really isn't ( shouldn't be, rather ). Be the change you want to see int he world.

[–]Gaujo0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I was in a club in AC on a slow night. Me and some friends bought a table and bottles to have fun and attract women. At some point in the mighty I was with a slightly taller woman. We had danced a bit and I tried to make a move on her. She stopped me to say "I'm taller than you". I just said "yeah" and continued. We made out a bit then, more later and I grabbed her ass as much as I liked and she was OK with it.

After that I gained a lot of confidence. Just shrug it off. NEVER LET THEM SEE YOU SWEAT.

[–]red_matrix9 points10 points  (16 children) | Copy

If a woman slams your height, isn't that a straight up insult and not a shit test? How would you handle that one? Everytime I see a girl make fun of a guy's height it's just so sad, there's almost no comeback other than to ignore it. I don't see A&A working here

[–]Reaper196733 points34 points  (6 children) | Copy

What is an insult, an attack on frame attempting to rouse a reaction. Someone trying to bring you into their frame. If you DGAF, it loses all power. If you aren’t insecure about it, it throws them off guard. A&A works because it shows you aren’t insecure, and can find amusement in her(or his) attempt to bring you down. YMMV, but I haven’t had anyone (male or female) continue to push past one maybe two stabs at the height, because I just don’t care what they think. If my height is truly that much of a concern to you, fuck off and quit wasting my time.

[–]red_matrix2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy

I meant specially what would you say. I've seen my buddy just clam up or ignore some insults from women about his height - but an insult is still and insult. I don't think it's as easy as you say. YMMV

[–]Reaper196710 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy

“I’m not short I’m vertically challenged” “It’s a shorter trip to lay you down” “Perfect height to see what’s important” (If she’s in heels or just taller...look at her boobs when you say it) “I left my heels at home, didn’t want to make you jealous” “Oxygen density is much better down here”

You (your buddy?) are still fighting an insecurity about your height. It really isn’t a big deal unless you make it one. Take a step back and look inside as to why it’s hanging you up. If you really are the prize and have value to offer, the height won’t be an issue. Like I stated, every time I’ve gotten shit for it, it’s been because the girl was playing with me. If she’s actually being a bitch about it, or continually pressing the issue (not playing in that case) then why would you give her any of your time or attention past that point?

[–]Aufbruch2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I thought they all ended up in your bed, though?

[–]kril897 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

What I always say and it's 100% the truth "If you think there should be more of me I think I'm doing pretty good"

[–]cBIGONE9 points10 points  (6 children) | Copy

Laugh, and say "I'm always up for a challenge",or just give a big shit grinning smirk and stare. Amplifying doesn't always have to be filled with words

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

big shit grinning smirk and stare

This is a great response for most things..

[–]Snazzy_Serval0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Laugh, and say "I'm always up for a challenge"

Who would you give that line to? Is it something you'd say to a taller woman?

What if some 5'1 chick is calling you short and you're 5'6?

[–]cBIGONE0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

"I'm 6'4" laying down" (jokes though), just amplify by shit eating grin and silence, or just look at her height and have a long ass silence, place your hand on your head, and measure down to theirs while staring lol. Whatever you feel would be fun.

Most likely she is poking you to see if you can take it, and have a sense of humor, or if you are a pussy. If she really is a bitch, you don't want anything to do with her anyway.

Regardless, you are now thinking too much. DON'T DEER. You don't have to defend shit. Change the topic if you want

[–]red_matrix-4 points-3 points  (2 children) | Copy

I've seen guys get emasculated by women about their height. If it's an insult, then I don't know how you come back. I think all you can do is ignore it (it still looks bad to the group). You're damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[–]cBIGONE4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

Let me phrase it a different way. If a 12 year old insults you, do you insult them back, or laugh and move on thinking "boy that was try hard lol, they must be really insecure with themselves" you dont have to acknowledge an insult. In fact say thank you and smile haha. Don't take it so seriously. You are The Man, and no one can take that away from you. Fuck height and fuck peoples perceptions of you. You know who you are inside and out.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

"Oh my god are you 5'6"? That's sooo short!"

"Fuck no! Im actually 4 feet without my fake legs.."

[–]tranquilschizo0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I think with him being 5'6, it is always a shit-test, never an insult. It's just like pointing the obvious. If a girl sees a guy with a big nose, you think she's going to insult this stranger? Pointing out the obvious isn't an insult but a shit-test. On the other hand, if she gets creative with her insult, then there is a more variety of possible answers.

[–]thepesterman4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

This should be much higher, short guys get less pussy because society tells them they should, its up to you to agree or disagree with superficial opinions.

[–]Snazzy_Serval2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

This should be much higher, short guys get less pussy because society tells them they should

I think it's because society tells women that they sholdn't give pussy to short guys.

[–]MormonRedPill199 points200 points  (64 children) | Copy

Do not expect women to understand or empathize with your predicaments as a (short) man

Probably the most important point. She is and always will be operating under a different paradigm.

If a woman were that adamant about being protected, she would carry around a gun.

If a woman were that adamant about getting food, she would become a hunter. Neither of those statements are true. Humanity is a sexually dimorphic species, each sex specializing in different areas, selecting for those sundry specializations in the opposite sex.

If 20,000 BC you gets in a fight with some 6'3 dude and you're 5'6, you're probably gonna get your skull caved in by troglodyte club. Your woman suddenly is stripped of her access to resources. She and your proto-family might die. When we were developing there were no office politics, Wall Street wolves, or nimble-minded tycoons. You lived in groups of maybe 100, and you died alone. That instinct is still programmed into her—that primal nagging that a short man represents a physical risk. It's your job to convince her you're worth the risk (or more appositely, that you're devoid of that risk).

[–]jrr6415sun173 points174 points  (10 children) | Copy

yup girls liking tall guys is primal instincts that they want to be protected, not because they want a big dick.

[–]egoshiner43 points44 points  (3 children) | Copy

Ya that part kinda confused me.

[–]RedKingRising30 points31 points  (2 children) | Copy

Reddit is full of stories of unhung giants in any thread about penis size

[–]spistruth0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

What does an unhung giant mean? A tall guy with a short penis?

[–]Greek-God-Brody24 points25 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is why lifting / getting jacked is the no.1 way to looksmax.

[–][deleted] 19 points20 points  (2 children) | Copy

Yea I stopped reading there. Seems fairly self evident that preference height is about strength, not dick size.

[–]NotMyBestEffort0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

A percentage is perceived dick size not "actual dick size".

[–]jackmack7860 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

In evolutionary biology terms, that is the same thing. And it’s still wrong. It’s about strength.

[–]_Ba_Dum_Tss_0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Makes me wonder if womens’ preferences and brain chemistry will be changed in a thousand years or so.

[–]hiddenpleasures12349 points50 points  (1 child) | Copy

I think an interesting way to look at it too is... The genetic for being short survived somehow. Human beings evolved enough to kill predators that would shred a barehanded 6'3 human.

The 5'6 man had a lower center of gravity, better stamina, required less food and was quicker. 5'6 guy given the right weapon, the reach and size that the 6'3 guy had was no longer important. How relevant was the lower center of gravity? The short guy could change directions quicker, had better balance over poor ground. He was also a smaller target. They were also superior climbers because of their lower body weight.

[–]campechampz8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

I think this is most a fallacy. Based on that, short guys probably wouldnt exist today because of natural selection

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy

No that’s incorrect. Back when we had to hunt and gather, being tall would have made you more sexually attractive but also requires more calories to feed you. So there is an evolutionary trade-off.

[–]DrankOfSmell16 points17 points  (2 children) | Copy

Hunter gatherer humans lived in tribal groups that actually acted in a way that modern man would recognize as communistic. It wasn’t a bunch of families in their own caves fending for themselves, lol. Having your tribe get raided is a bigger issue than some tribal bully. There were social standards within the tribe.

Big game is hunted and he kill is shared with everyone

[–]Alpha_CyPha0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Thank god as humans we have grown away from communistic systems.

[–]DrankOfSmell2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I mean it’s the best system for hunter-gatherers who need to work together to survive who don’t have an economy, but it’s not the best system for agriculture based societies. You were born and raised in an agricultural society, but if somehow you found yourself living in a Hunter-gatherer tribal group with no civilization to be seen, you’d just be a selfish cunt with this train of thought, and few would like you. Be adaptive.

Thank god humans mastered agriculture and industry. Moving away from a communistic approach is just the side effect, not the point.

[–]Aufbruch4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

That's why you bludgeon them to death in their sleep, though. The Strong dominate the Weak, and the Clever dominate the Strong.

[–]KiteAsAHeight 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Are you Mormon? Just curious as I'm ex-mo and couldn't imagine knownig about TRP as an active Mormon lol

[–]1scissor_me_timbers003 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Aayye me too. Mormon blue pill fucked me up.

[–]BatemaninAccounting2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Humanity is a sexually dimorphic species

FYI you aren't entirely correct(at least how I think you're thinking about sexual dimorphism). In early hominids, though, sexual dimorphism may have been more pronounced. Studies of Paranthropus robustus, which appeared around two million years ago, suggest that males were significantly bigger than females. This may have reflected polygamy – harem building, as seen in today’s silverback gorillas. The ratios are greater in some primates (gorillas have values of about 84!), but if they’re greater than 1, there’s room for sexual selection, since there are more males seeking females than there are females available as mates. Human sexual body size dimorphism (male/female ratio) is on average 1.15, though depending on the location values range from 1.09-1.28.

So... yeah. This is a complex subject and we're still learning stuff about it, but humans are very low on the sexual dimorphism scale in terms of biology.

[–]ultrab1ue3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Troglodyte?? Had to look that one up. Damn some of you folks here are well read

[–]asthetichunk-4 points-3 points  (3 children) | Copy

A 5'6 guy cannot kill a 6'3 guy?Seriously?

[–]LeftHookTKD3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Are u retarded? Thats not what hes saying

[–]VoidInvincible31 points32 points  (3 children) | Copy

Don't complain if you are around 5'9 though, because that's not short.

[–]kurdishpower0120 points21 points  (1 child) | Copy

It is in the Netherlands and you should never complain no matter what.

Cope or rope like incels would say

[–]yazen_9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

This. Everytime I go to a corporate event in Europe, always the tallest guys are Dutch. Like 1m90 and above

[–]B-L-G-Y18 points19 points  (1 child) | Copy

Let me tell you all about a guy we'll call L.

I work in a big box retail environment while I build up a customer base for a contractor business. Without going into too much detail, I meet a lot of people who've just bought a home and want new cabinets and whathaveyou. A lot of these people are attractive women who've just netted some poor sap who's trying to buy her the world so she stays, and some of them are attractive divorcees looking to get back on the carousel. So there's that.

There's also a lot of cute young ladies working the registers, and some of the less detail-oriented "specialist" positions. On the flip side we have a lot of spineless, and I hate to use the term, soyboys working the floor and keeping their noses down and just generally trying to be as invisible as possible.

Enter L. L, I swear to God, has got to be four feet tall. If someone told me he was 4'1 or more I would have a heart attack. I've seen thousands of people come into the store and none of them are shorter than L. People bring their kids in and they tower over him, and you know what? He doesn't give a fuck.

L is basically jacked. A little more body fat than you might want if you were in his shoes, but he's got just about as much muscle as his frame could carry. He's got an incredibly positive attitude. He's hilarious. He's high energy and not in the least bit annoying except to people who envy his nature. Within a week he'd (foolishly) started a relationship with some thot in his department. It's okay because his job consists of making out all day with a chick who cannot get enough of him. And hand to God, some of the cutest cashiers--again, these are women who practically have to shout down to him so he can hear--have expressed out loud that they wish he was single.

There's a few things L does that you should take note of if you are also short:

  1. He never brings up his height. I've heard some of those envious, insecure boys call him all kinds of fucked up shit. Leprechaun, gnome, Willow. Anything you can think of. He has a spot on impersonation for each of these characters and more. He glosses right over the insult and one ups them with even better humor. If there's people around he works the crowd instead of engaging directly. This is indicative of someone who's been relentlessly tormented about their glaring disadvantage their entire life and who owns it as though he fought through hell to get it. L doesn't give a fuck. He told me once he doesn't let anybody get him down because it's not physically possible for him to get lower. 10/10 joke, you had to be there. Dry delivery. Agh. God bless him.

  2. He stands up straight, with his chest and core centered and firm, and maintains solid eye contact. When engaging with customers he uses an authoritative, confident tone of voice. This nearly erases the physical man before them and presents a cool, collected force. L behaves like Usain Bolt in Mini Me's body, and people listen to what he has to say like he's Winston Churchill because of it. Body language and tone are two of your most important weapons when trying to present yourself in the best way. In his case this achieves a remarkable feat; he's interacting with such poise that the same kid who just spent thirty minutes shitting all over him behind his back struggles to behave as cool and calmly, and oftentimes they're nowhere near his level. You can look at this a couple different ways. If you're an optimist you might think he's building others up by inspiring them to be better. If you're cynical you can point out that L's dimeanor is so vastly superior that they feel the need to match it as soon as they realize how outclassed they are. Both are true, usually simultaneously. You can be like L, or you can be like the pissant who's so insecure he needs to take the easiest shot at the easiest target in a building the size of a football field. The choice is yours.

  3. Most importantly, L doesn't kill people with kindness. He doesn't try at all to win people over. It just happens. Because of the social value he has just by being who he is, people have gone from hating him to loving him within an hour. I've seen it more than once. He talks to everybody, jokes constantly and very well at that, and never lets anybody bring him down to their level. L doesn't try to "win" in a social interaction because he understands that the second somebody tries to tear him down, they're losing. I've never once seen the guy deviate even slightly from his frame. He exists in his world, and he walks on his ground. This is important no matter what height you are, but as OP stated it is very difficult when the odds are stacked against you. L makes it look easy.

Be like L. He's got a ways to go before he has a bimbo trophy on either arm but he's very close. Me and a few bros think this chick he's going steady with will do him dirty, and that may be the catalyst for him to fully transform into a tiny Chad. If he can do that, you can too. The only thing standing in your way, ever, is yourself.

As a disclaimer, I'm about 5'6 out of shoes. I've been with exactly one woman shorter than me. It is what it is, man. The stigma attached to your height is nothing more than smoke and mirrors. It is your job to cut through the bullshit and rise above. Only you hold that power, and it's easier than you think.

Great post, u/shortandspicy.

[–]jvgkaty4497 points98 points  (13 children) | Copy

Im gonna say this. Ive known plenty of shorter guys and many had hot gfs or wives. Theres a guy where i work whos is pretty short and average looks who girls are all over. He isnt even that good looking but he is pretty confident and has a good personality.

[–]shortandspicy[S] 138 points139 points  (1 child) | Copy

Confidence is the game-changer.

[–]kurdishpower0131 points32 points  (0 children) | Copy

Confidence and social intelligence*

[–]2gudfou61 points62 points  (5 children) | Copy

The best ladys' man I've ever met who would put James Bond to shame is short but also a personal trainer. He just got booty called last night by a girl I used to have a LTR with. He turned her down too because he's a true bro and my best friend

[–]Spezs_Douch314 points15 points  (3 children) | Copy

He turned her down at that moment. Accept the possibility that it could happen. The "bro" thing to do on your part is to not care if it does happen.

[–]2gudfou11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy

I've actively tried to get him to do it because I don't care. I can admire that he cares about angering me to the point he wouldn't even consider having a thing with her, that doesn't mean I'd actually care if he does.

[–]AFellowCanadianGuy-3 points-2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Why are you trying to turn him into a cuck.

[–]ActualyIzDolan3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

A Cuck would get into the situation where they already cared too much about the woman so it’s an insult to them self if you do it.

If you don’t give a fuck what happens to the chick, then it doesn’t really matter.

[–]jrr6415sun31 points32 points  (2 children) | Copy

i've always equated a guy being tall to a girl having big boobs. Sure flat girls can still get lots of guys but they have to be pretty or a good personality. An ugly girl with big boobs can still attract a lot of guys, just like an ugly guy who is tall can still attract a lot of girls even with a bad personality.

[–]anabolic9235 points36 points  (0 children) | Copy

Rules in the sexual marketplace do not apply equally for men and women.

If we ever managed to find an objective way to rate women you'd see how 'ugly' women still get much more attention than 'ugly' guys.

[–]Red_Faust11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy

Height and muscles are to guys what boobs to a girl.

They attract the attention of the opposite gender but are nowhere near enough to seal the deal.

But they are a damned good attractor nevertheless.

[–]sometimespredictable5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, the way I see it, being short is a disadvantage (that's undeniable) but it's in no way a death sentence.

[–]dirtycurt5528 points29 points  (8 children) | Copy

I like what you said my man. I’m 5’5” as well and I can relate to everything you wrote. Shorter people live longer, but the advantages stop after that. Things like fighting, sports, and attracting women are all typically easier if you’re tall. I’ve even seen studies that height has a correlation on income and career success.

It’s not easy, but it’s just the hand we were dealt. Like you said, you just have to love yourself and make the best of it.

[–]Endorsed ContributorUEMcGill42 points43 points  (6 children) | Copy

5'6" Oly lifter here. Short guys were made for lifting.

[–]Killing__Time_7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

Naim Suleymanoglu is the best example. Lifting depends on leverages, which predominantly depends on genetics.

[–]Endorsed ContributorUEMcGill5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

190kg clean and jerk is so fucking sick it's not even funny.

[–]dirtycurt551 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I can agree with you there. Shorter guys can lift a much higher ratio of weight lifted compared to how much you weigh. You won’t see as many tall guys squatting 3-4 times their body weight.

Only disadvantage there is how much muscle you can put on a smaller frame. If you’re going for an overall world record, 6ft+ rules the board.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Or higher totals in general. If it really mattered, girls would be looking at who puts up more weight. Even if we’re just talking about +/- of height, generally it will be the taller people once they’ve filled out. This isn’t Wilks. I bench more = I’m stronger.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

My (half-) brother was a life long body builder. He was/is amazingly strong for someone his age. Our (shared) grandfather, Maximus-peenor, he who laid more pipe than the Romans, was the same height and in exceptional shape. None of this short-guy problems seemed to be an actual problem for them.

I knew this short Okinawian. His father meaned him up good. He ended up a US Marine. He was a ball of muscle but at best 5'5". He was terrifying. Yeah, I probably could have lifted him off the ground by his neck, but every bone in my face would have been broken by the time it was done.

[–]BoyFromMiami23 points24 points  (3 children) | Copy

I’ll share my experience. I am 6’3. I am usually the tallest in the room. With minimal excessive it has made it much easier to be taken seriously in all facets of life including women. I am not in denial about that. Is it fair? No. Life isn’t fair. Some are born rich and some are born poor and disabled. I know many “short” men who lift and advance in careers and education who will blow me out of the water in SMV. If your short, dress well, lift, advance in education career and redpoll knowledge. That combination will put you in the top 20%.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

Problem is that my country is redpilled as fuck and 70+% of my peers lift and all, i can only ascend by status but it's not worth the stress just for some dumb hoes. In the end of the day AWALT.

[–]white_girl_lover0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Then associate w those men and grow in status that way? Idk, what else will you do? Finding your purpose is always a great decision regardless of your circumstances.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

That's what i do, doesn't help me so far but i don't give a fuck

[–]Schhwing20 points21 points  (46 children) | Copy

The height- penis size relation is a stretch. Having taller humans does mean protection. Fighting rival clans and hunting bigger game etc. so I do think biologically women will select taller men subconsciously due to this “protection” drive. Better for the species.

[–]Paladin290311 points12 points  (41 children) | Copy

Height has nothing to do with toughness and protection. I’ve seen jacked guys, that are anywhere from 5’6” to 5’8” tall systematically beat the shit out of tall guys.

Mike Tyson is average height of 5’8” (arguably 5’9” at most) and he put the fear of God in everyone he fought that was taller than him. A lion is the king of the jungle and it’s smaller than a giraffe, yet the giraffe runs.

[–]Schhwing7 points8 points  (13 children) | Copy

Comparing different species is a bit retarded so I’m not going to go there.

Re: your point with Tyson - a jacked tall guy is going to outfight a jacked short guy all things being equal - meaning if they both lift the same amount and have the same fighting training. That’s why weight classes exist.

You’re picking one of the best fighters of all time. This is not the general rule. Therefore all things being equal, height is more valuable. As a tall person can still become fit, a short person cannot become taller.

Also body composition is more a factor of lifestyle choices. Bone structure isn’t. Therefore a female still biologically (subconsciously) knows that tallness is more valuable than being fit.

[–]carvedouttastone0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Mike Tyson is 5'10 - hardly short but he did fight taller opponents

[–]SilkTouchm-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

A lion is the king of the jungle and it’s smaller than a giraffe, yet the giraffe runs.

Well a giraffe would wreck the shit out of a lion so it's not the best example.

[–]mubee940 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Lol check Manny pacquiao and other boxers also. They are mostly short

[–]Schhwing2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

Muhummed Ali was 1.9 m George foreman was 1.92 m. Look in the heavyweight division for the tall guys.

[–]mubee94-2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy

Still no one would fuck with Manny.

[–]Schhwing4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

The heavyweights would beat the shit out of him. /thread

[–]meninistMD34 points35 points  (2 children) | Copy

Thanks for the post, you said many things that I wanted to say. I’m 5’6 too, luckily I have more luck than many of my friends, luckily I worked hard to get high social statues, I’m fit and I do have confident personality. However no matter what I do I’ll always see some people who would bring the issue of height and I have seen many women who consider this a deal breaker. I think many like me find this frustrating, unlike weight, you can never do anything to improve your height, it’s genetics, and it’s weird for me that the subject when brought in our society is not frowned upon like racism for example.

However, I’d say if you’re a short guy, don’t let that obstruct you, work on all other aspects and talk to as many women, I adore talking to tall women, and my current girlfriend is 6’1, at least half my exes were taller than me.

[–]AGameofTrolls5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yup. I'm cursed being a 5"2 man, but I've managed to have girlfriends who have been taller than me. I've been carded in bars and clubs because I look way too young for my age and my boy body doesn't help at all. But, if a girl is really into you it won't really matter. A lot of people think I have a great personality and it all starts just by smiling and being a positive person. Spread some positivism around and everyone will be glad you're around. So, work on your personality and be a positive person and the stars will eventually align in your favor.

[–]looneyniggabunny9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

Generally I believe that being tall for man is a attraction + points for women is due to the fact that women are naturally program to always look for good genes. Height = good genes
It is essential as having good looks , being fit etc that equal the values of good genes
I myself isn't tall either even I am at the average height of my genes (asians fml) and it is one the flaws I would feel bad the most because I can never do anything about it ( or I could but it is too late now)

However, this is why the TRP is here for, it enables you to build self confidence, build a idgaf attitude because of the amount of other values I am able to provide
Having good genes helps you playing the game at a easy mode, but knowing how to play the game lets you play at even the hardest mode (even if you're genetically ugly, you dress well, have a great personality and self confidence, great hobbies and successful, youre still gonna get the same amount of girls compare to the CHAD who doesnt know how to play the game)
Great post by OP on this topic, dont ever let anyone put you down because you set the frame, you're the frame.

[–]Gearski62 points63 points  (5 children) | Copy

I'm 6'4 and my 5'6 best friend pulls way more than I do, I think there are things that matter a lot more than height.

[–]TimWestwood114 points15 points  (1 child) | Copy

I bet he has a really good sense of humour though

[–]Gearski33 points34 points  (0 children) | Copy

Surprisingly not really, he isn't the funny guy in the group, just your average gymbro.

[–]cBIGONE3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Does he have great face symetry and skin and other aesthetic things unrelated to height? This is tough for friends to admit sometimes

[–]Gearski2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I've thought about this a bit and his face is pretty average, but he has other stuff going for him like good style, well groomed, can tell he lifts by looking at him(he's done a few cycles) but it really just further proves the point that height isn't everything.

[–]1studentsensei16 points17 points  (0 children) | Copy

I've found significantly less issues with my height as an adult than I did when I was a teenager. It became such a non-factor that it shocked me.

I'm 5'6 but most women are even shorter than that, or around that height.

But a real short Casanova once told me that "We're all the same height in bed."

[–]BeATrumpet16 points17 points  (0 children) | Copy

Facial aesthetics trump all. If you're tall and pretty you will slay. If you're short and pretty you will slay less but still slay. If you're tall and average you will still have it easy but there will be resistance if you're short and average and below you'll run into difficulty. Ugly dudes no matter their height will really need to hone their game.

[–]drallcom3 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

I'm tall. As is "there's at best one guy taller than me in the club" tall.

It's not a guarantee for anything. Call it a headstart, an icebreaker. If you rely on only being tall then you can laid at a club, by a 5 or below that is. For anything better you still need all the rest. And let me tell you, looking like you lift is not easy at that height. I can add 40lbs of muscle and my friends don't notice a thing.

Being interesting, fun, successful is far more important.

[–]Yoasted0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

agreed on lifting isn't easy at that height. I'm 6'4" but adding 40lbs of muscle or mass in general is defenitely noticeable. It is MUCH more noticeable on a person of shorter stature however. That being said, i'm on gear and can easily identify 5-10lbs gain of mass.

[–]zuixihuan0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

How long were you lifting for before you started gearing?

[–]Yoasted0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

about 2 years. I used to be really fat (250lbs) and played college basketball and was borderline anorexic and dropped to 180lbs. Steady lifting for 2 years after that landed me at 205 lbs where I felt i was ready for gear. The best decision of my life considering I am naturally low T.

[–]zuixihuan0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I want to try gear so bad but I am really worried about the health repercussions probably because of all the myths that float around in the mainstream discourse.

[–]wiffofass 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

I'm 5'9" 230 lbs shredded and juiced. Offseason weight 240-250 lbs. Veins on quads, abs, horse hoe triceps, forearms bulging of thick blue veins etc. I get all the attention everywere I go. Height makes zero difference. Guys (tall or not) either give a nod of acknowledgement and smile if they're alpha or look down in shame and avoid eye contact (most do that). Guess what. Women notice how other guys act around me.

TL;DR get big if you can't be tall. And make your voice DEEP as fuck

[–]MrVodnik12 points13 points  (5 children) | Copy

How the fuck do you deepen your voice!?

[–]1Revo_Luzione7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

There's a great book out there, "Change your voice, change your life." It's helped me a ton. It has a ton of exercises and practices. I do some public speaking as a part of my profession, and it's payed dividends there. Even better, I can now speak for two days in a row, a full 8 hour a day weekend seminar, plus socializing before and after, and never get hoarse.

Before the book, I would get a sore throat & have to take a day off of all speaking to recover.

Best part: My voice is deep and sonorous now. I get complements on it regularly.

[–]Kantight0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks. I do a lot of speaking and my throat always dies from how much I talk.

[–]midnightreider2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Talk slow, and minimize the amount of air going through your nostrils when you talk. Practice by pinching your nose and talking until there’s only the very occasional nasal sound with your nose pinched. Pretty sure there was a post here about that.

[–]1InscrutablePUA4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's all about breathing, specifically learning to breath into your diaphragm. Your voice should originate from your stomach... try it and hear the difference. Speaking slower also helps to convey gravitas

[–]BiggestBoop0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

His voice also might have deepened cause of the steroids.

[–]TheDevilsAdvokaat8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

I knew a scottish guy who was about 5'8". He was into lifting from an early age; I was barely twenty and he'd already been doing it for six years at 23.

So how did the girls like it? They loved it. I've been in clubs sitting talking with him while his latest girl was literally running her hands over his shoulders and arms and pecs and cooing at him (Seriously! He ignored it because I guess he was used to it.)

I do agree being short makes you a lot less desirable to a lot of women. But as usual "lifting" or doing weights helps a lot.

[–]ApwoperMuser2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

How long have you been lifting? What is your workout plan and diet?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

you must look comical . 240-250 lbs at 5´9 lmao

[–]GoblinsStoleMyHouse-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy

You're what I like to call a "Manlet".

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon17 points18 points  (3 children) | Copy

Women do not fawn after tall men because they are better protectors, they fawn over them because of the sexual implication. 'Tall man' is a coded phrase for 'big dick.'

I was with you until this point. This is pure bullshit. Tall men are attractive because of dominance and presence and status. Nothing to do with dick size.

A tall man can pick up and throw women around in the bedroom in a way that short men, simply put, cannot

Not true: height works against you here because of the leverage effect of longer limbs. Let's not confuse height with strength.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Having a lower center of gravity generally makes picking up people easier

[–]rolo_tony_0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Can’t believe I had to scroll this far for someone to call out his dumbass dick size argument. It leads me to believe that 80% of the people here believe it to be true.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Partly also people don't wanna call others out, even if it makes no sense, if they seem to be higher status within the group.

[–]1Revo_Luzione4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Women are terrible at estimating height, or dick length for that matter.

All sorts of thing affect a woman's perception of height. Your clothes, how jacked you are, and most importantly, how confident you are.

Bottom line: abundance mindset conquers all of this and more.

[–]Endorsed ContributorJamesSkepp16 points17 points  (7 children) | Copy

Start deliberately dating taller girls only. You'll develop better frame and better game, but in the end, especially after you master your frame (learn to handle how you perceive yourself), you'll learn that as soon as you stop seeing your height as the problem, so will the women.

[–]rigbed14 points15 points  (3 children) | Copy

Tall women are your key to tall kids

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

no, theyre your key to raising another tall mans kids

This post is delusion

[–]rigbed0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I never see tall guys with tall women

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

then maybe you need to open your eyes

[–]Snazzy_Serval1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Start deliberately dating taller girls only. You'll develop better frame and better game, but in the end, especially after you master your frame

Could you explain that, why are taller women better to date than short women?

[–]Endorsed ContributorJamesSkepp0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Better is not a word I would use to describe them. Sure, they might be hotter, but that's personal preference. Also a taller girl might be perceived as having/giving you more status than shorter, but when it comes to pure interactions, there's little difference between them.

What a taller (than you) girl requires is you getting over the belief that if you're shorter = you'll lose attraction points. That you're inadequate. That you're inferior to taller than you men (regardless of your/their height). That you shouldn't go for taller girls b/c you don't have a chance anyway. And so on. IOW you are forced to confront your limiting beliefs, which is always a good thing.

[–]Comeandseemeforonce9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

6'3 here. Every time I hear of the short man's plight I cringe in empathy if that's even possible. Best of luck to you short bros

[–]WakeUpAlreadyDude3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

I have a friend who's 5'4" and I'm only 5'9". I never really realized how much people shit on short people. Great guy and mostly has his shit together. Most women wouldn't give him the time of day.

Also, I didn't realize how much it made a difference for me until I was more brazen about talking to women. A lot of women won't consider me because I'm not over 6 foot. I'm taller than 90% of women, but many want the tall man. I just laugh at it now.

Women get away with a lot of bullshit that they crap all over men for considering. I did once tell a girl she was too tall for me, just to see her reaction. She freaked out. That was fun.

[–]1SirKolbath62 points63 points  (3 children) | Copy

You're over thinking this. I'm 5'5" tall and give precisely zero fucks about it. I'm not saying that you're wrong, I'm saying that you put more thought into this one post about being short than I have put into worrying about my height since tenth grade.

Maximize what you have (Lift. Dress well. Be articulate and funny.) and ignore what you don't have.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is exactly what a redpilled Alpha is. No matter what life gave him he focus on getting the most benefit out of it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

and your results have been...?

[–]Paladin290317 points18 points  (6 children) | Copy

Guys are far too focused on height, nowadays. There’s a few reasons for this.....the world has become hyper-competitive, mainly due to the internet and the world-wide competition it brings.

Another reason is these feminists and “femidykes” are vicious cunts. As a result, they’ll try to shame and embarrass men for absolutely anything. Keep in mind that most women are not feminists.......

At least, not the ones that are pretty, and that you’d want to be your girlfriend. So, who gives a shit what a bunch of ugly ass feminists think?

To this day, the guys I know that are the best with women are 5’6” and 5’7.” They’re both very good looking guys (no homo) and give absolutely zero fucks. The more you think about and obsess over this shit, the worse it’ll be for you.

Height is just one variable out of a ton of variables. Former basketball player Manute Bol was 7’7” and ugly as FUCK. Do you think hot girls were lining up to fuck him? No, they weren’t.

Also, another thing to keep in mind is that damn near every guy lies about their height. That’s why girls think there are so many 6 foot guys walking the streets. Only about 14% of the male population is 6 feet tall and over. Average worldwide height for a guy is 5’8” tall.

Same with dick size....most guys lie about it, women believe them, and as a result, women think damn near every guy should be hung like a horse.

Just enjoy your life man...it’s too short to stress yourself out about this shit.

[–]kronos4154 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy

At least, not the ones that are pretty

Umn where the fuck do you live? Because I live in a major city, ans almost every woman regardless of looks is a feminist. Or at least wears the flag and attends the mettings metaphorically speaking.

[–]BeholdTheHair1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Region can make a big difference, but yeah, especially in cities the whole "only 1 in 5 women identify as feminist" is a useless figure. I've known probably dozens of women over the years who don't explicitly call themselves feminists but who demonstrate all the same beliefs and behaviors. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck but calls itself a steer, only an idiot would treat it like a cow.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Of course. Women are all feminists. Period. They may not dye their hair blue and go to protests, but they have the same basic beliefs and goals.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

ooh Im 5'6-5'8 (dont know actuals)

[–]ozenmacher0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I am 5'5". I agree, weird things happen when you are short. One thing I learned is confidence in a short frame dude can really turn heads. It almost throws women off because most average BP short men are ultra concerned and sensitive about their short stature. You are different and you standout, which builds mystery. Also, a lot of red-pilled short dudes really don't GAF because they had to spend decades being made fun of when they were younger, so a lot of them have natural confidence. I have friends among my mountaineering group who are CHADS and I still AMOG them, dudes who are 6'4", but lack confidence. Do you have to work harder? Yes, but in many ways that work was done when you were ridiculed when you were younger.

[–]finnabustanuut5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy

One thing that's important is lifting. My dad is about 170cm but he has a huge back and is muscular. You shouldn't over do it or take steroids because you will look like someone who's insecure. But if you look strong you will get waaaay less jokes. My dads height got never mentioned although he's 10cm under average.

[–]mubee945 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

Agreed. A big back makes an imposing presence. No one would fuck with a guy with big back

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

True. I'm not particularly big at all (5'11 80kg/176lb at 12% bf) but people constantly comment on how big I look. All because I have good back genetics.

[–]mubee941 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah a big back makes a manly look in my opinion you can tell from the back that the person is an adult and not a teen

[–]Commentor5440 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

170cm isnt 10cm under average

[–]RedPillAlphaBigCock3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

This might be easy for me to say as I am above average height. But I truly believe that It's all in your head. If you can 10000% ignore it and be confident as fuck - nobody will even question it. I know a short Asian guy and I have NEVER seen anyone question his height or ethnicity - he ignores it so completely that it is irrivelant for all of us.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

People will very rarely OPENLY question it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't affect how they perceive you.

[–]Red_Faust3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

5'9 here. Average in my country, though sometimes in the past I've lost targets to taller/buffier guys.

I wear high heeled boots when I go out to look taller. They also fit my rockerish style, so all in all I look awesome, and have never gotten shit for it, furthermore, sometimes I even tease girls with this, if I find it's appropriate.

I see several things I wanted to nitpick about your post:

Just be aware of what this implies: if you think there's nothing wrong with being short, and you are wearing shoe lifts, you are lying to yourself.

NO. This is a limiting belief.

I see nothing wrong with being short (average, in my case), but I can clearly see that girls also prefer taller guys. So I cater to my audience, in a totally amoral sense: I outfit myself to look taller because I pull more that way. That's it.

If you do want to try them, I suggest wearing them for a limited amount of time to gauge how they fit and if it's something you wish to invest in.

I'd take it one step further. Try them in an outrageous way, like +10cms heels+lifts, as an A/B test to see if you get more IOIs.

It's the simplest A/B test you can do in your life, it's instantaneous (as opposed to say an A/B test being fat/normal/ripped, which can take months to achieve) and you WILL see an immediate difference in IOIs.

Then you can decide if you want to go back to not using lifts, or you can exploit this new superpower.

A lot of guys, well, the majority of guys, won't do this because in their beliefs it amounts to cheating. That's awesome for me, really. Less competition.

Being fit/attractive/well-dressed helps tremendously, but it is not a cure-all.

No, but you get more IOIs which means more warm approaches which means more % of success.

You guys could do well in learning to scrape all the minimal incremental advantages you can get, since it compounds. Or don't do it, whatever.

You have to accept reality and learn love yourself.

This is the most important point of all. But let me connect it with that previous point.

When you really love yourself, wearing high heels and/or lifts is not an overcompensation of your shortcomings but a way to sell yourself better to the irrational value judgers that are women.

Doing marketing for your product, or designing an awesome landing page doesn't mean your product sucks. If you really really love your product you have no cognitive dissonance in marketing it the best way you can.

P.S.: I've never, ever, ever, like, never ever at all, had a girl mentioning anything about my height after she's seen me without my boots. But I only take them off before having sex, and after the sex she'll always rationalize to convince herself it's been an awesome idea.

[–]Pastelitomaracucho4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm 5'7 or whatever that is... freedom units.

Women are attracted to guys that are around a head taller than them. Girls that are short will consider tall guys "too tall" often. So for whatever height there is, there is a market for such height.

Average height in the population will then play a role on your value: I am absolutely invisible in the Netherlands, but I'm at in my element in any Mediterranean country. Any rules here will have as much value for shorter men than for any other guy: stay in shape, be assertive and confident, build your own world and skills and one that has always worked fantastically for me: learn. how. to. dance.

And if you live in a place where everyone towers around you, just fucking move.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is a quality post and it should be put on the sidebar.

At 5'9, 6' in oxfords, I don't feel I have it that bad because I'm always in the middle height-wise but within a group of men in my city pretty much everywhere I am still the shortest.

Taller and better built men would implicitly or openly disrespect me even though I make three times what they do and that makes me angry enough to lift and consider a serious martial art as well. You can be short or rather ''not tall'' and still not take shit from anyone. This is key.

Put it this way: if you're short, try being more like Floyd Mayweather and less like Elijah Wood. As much as possible actually.

[–]8xin1nite7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

That's not short, that's Tom Cruise height...

[–]Jonmad179 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

Short men actually make less money and suffer pretty substantial workplace discrimination. Accepting preferences is all you can do when it comes to dating, but there's a real place for a public discourse when it comes to height discrimination against men in every other domain of life. If a tall guy is more likely to be hired than a short guy given identical qualifications, then telling the person being discriminated against to "harden up" is bullshit. Those people have a right to complain.

Dating is different because you're dealing with female autonomy and you can't force attraction. If you're a genetically unattractive guy in some way and can't change it, my advice is to just obtain meaning from something other than romance. Most sex is arbitrary and meaningless anyways; find something that you can be great at and attach your pride to that instead. If you accomplish something great you can end up leading a more meaningful life in your 40s than a guy who fucked his 20s away and accomplished little aside from that.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

This. Be stoic, get money (but don't sweat it), pursue your hobbies/sports, get buff as much as you can, dress well for yourself, get a dog and go in nature with him. Get some male friends who can relate. If some 5+/10 woman comes i'll happily plate her but that is all. If u wanna have sex just pay for it. Besides it's not dat expensive, they are usually hot and do really good in bed. Chill, enjoy life and be happy for things u have and don't think about things u can't change. Stressfree life ftw.

I was anxious and depressed coz i'm still a virgin and put dat pussy on a pedestool. And tried to be succesful as fuck but i realized that nobody gives a fuck even if i pick litter on the street. IDGAF.

[–]jrr6415sun2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

do you have any shoe lift suggestions that don't look weird?

[–]RealFrizzante0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Depends of where you live i've tryied both the ones you put inside shoes and shoes with the lift already

[–]Snazzy_Serval0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy


Boots and "dress" shoes look the best. Basically shoes that you'd wear pants with.

[–]AmatureProgrammer2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

Curious bur how do you handle it when a woman shit tests you on your height? How do you respond?

Also, I wish there was more height related content on this sub.

[–]1Revo_Luzione2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

"Everyone is the same height when we're horizontal." Or some variation.

Or pressure flip, if she's a tall girl: "Your height and long neck makes you look like a giraffe. Giraffes are so cute! You can reach the top shelf items for me in the kitchen." etc, etc.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

If a woman shit tests you on something it means that she see you as a potential partner,which is something that should make you happy unless you are an insecure bitch. TRP is focused on things you can change,not on things you can’t do shit about. If you were born brown you can’t be white,if you were born short you can’t be tall so why should you waste any more time talking about it instead of hints that you CAN change?

[–]Chad_Castle 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

I have somewhat of a pet theory on this subject. Like a lot of things it can be boiled down to a nature vs nurture debate.

On the nature side, women are just genetically predisposed to be attracted to tall men because they are more likely to be better physical protectors.

On the nurture side, short kids are more likely to be bullied and fear for their physical safety in their younger years. Something about this causes them to be more passive, less socially dominate, and less aggressive, i.e. less attractive to women. This lack of confidence and inexperience with women then carries on later in life.

Basically what I’m saying is,

“What if women only associate tall men as being attractive due to the stereotype of tall men being more confident?”

Which tall men = more confident is a stereotype that holds true for the most part. Hypothetically, alpha short men could still trigger her AF side. Just as a beta tall men can dry her up real fast as well.

[–]drty_pr2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Nevermind hooked. Even a casual user of hard drugs is out of the question for even friendship.

[–]Scabsandwhich2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I thought you were saying, "wrong like if you beleive the Earth's flatness is wrong." Had to take a better look!

As a short male, I'm 5'5", success rate with women is different; however, this isn't going to get in the way if you don't let it. Honestly, I have never really thought about my height past the idea that I am as tall as phife dog. It's who I am.

This post here was good/bad for me. Of course negelecting my height benefited my frame. Reading through this, I could feel reality sink in. Most short men probably would agree with your points.

I dont think I've gotten any taller since sophmore year in high school. I have yet to be, in ways I know, set back because of my height. Having sex with women 5" taller than you isn't as fun as a women 5" short than you, but I'll be damned if I'm ever with some whale I can't "pick up and throw around".

Fact is you can't give a fuck if women care about your height. That's going to break everything you are at the core, because both me and you are stuck at 5'5".

A young, fit, short & leading male will never be as succesful as the taller version. As a proposition, we have to game possibly 30% more women. In a way thise is a bonus, because who tf doesn't enjoy day game. On the other hand it is more work, but more work and harder effort reaps better reward.

Keep fightin y'all fellow short motherfuckers.

[–]redvelvet_oreo2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Good Post. I think it matter for short people like me and your self to accept our reality.

I will say though being short is not a fucking crutch to do nothing. I am basically same as OP maybe even an inch shorter. I was a very introverted and invisible person to most people. Now I have changed and have been more in the Alpha space while being more extroverted.. My reality now is most people don't even acknowledge my height or notice until alot later on knowing them. Usually maybe 2 - 3 months in knowing them. When the shit testing does start about it you dominate it and laugh. It will become a non issue really fast. You have one shot of passing or failing this shit test with people if you fail you will always look like the butt hurt short beta. The more you don't give a shit about it the better and the less people around you will even care about it.

In terms of women, yeah there are those chicks who just dont fuck with short guys even though they couldn't fit 4 inches of my fat cock in their mouth and my game is good but that still dosent take away your ability to pull women. If you go out and game and pull enough women and establish yourself y ou will still wind up banging hot chicks. Height is not everything, its an issue but its not the end of the world. Own it. Become Big Daddy Smurf.

[–]Jcart1052 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Women always find themselves butting into the conversations of male height-related matters, and it will always perplex me as to why. "Short women have it bad too!" No. A short woman is valued far more in the sexual marketplace than a short man, and that is the stone cold truth.

Women are in a constant state of victimhood and want to be able to profit off of any new cases of victimhood they can squeeze themselves into. I remember just casually saying on short subreddit how women aren't nearly as influenced by their own height as men are with their own heights. Few minutes later... this cues multiple women to go on about how "even a short man is still AT LEAST A MAN" and that "short women have it worst of all" -- their solipsism knows no bounds.

Women do not fawn after tall men because they are better protectors, they fawn over them because of the sexual implication. 'Tall man' is a coded phrase for 'big dick.'

Or honestly they just have a poor perception and judgement of reality and go with feels over reals.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Wow, what an incredible and introspective post. Considering how well you can articulate this so calmly shows you've definitely surpassed the stigma and others can too. Seriously, thanks for posting.

[–]shortandspicy[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You are very welcome! Thank you for taking the time to read it!

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy

I'm 5'9 so I dont to know if that qualifies as short, but I have had no height related problems except easy shittests once in a while

[–]Paladin29034 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

It doesn’t qualify as short.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

He lives in Scandinavia I am pretty sure that an ethnic 5’9 man there stands out,and not because of his skin color.

[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thank god, i'm 5'9 too. Still an incel though. But i'm not buff yet. Face doesn't give me any advantage too.

[–]SnowMonkeyCracker 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Height in men is the equivalent of big tits on women. Neither characteristic has much relevance for day to day life, but each feature communicates to something deep in some members of opposite sex.

However, 5'5 jacked will beat 6'6 skinny fat almost every time. Just as a flat chested woman (eg Kira Knightly) will beat a big breasted woman (Melissa McCarthy).

[–]Satou47 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

My Tinder profile says "No natural gravity defying DDs"

[–]Snazzy_Serval5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

Melissa McCarthy

Why the hell is that your example for a big breasted woman?!

Just as a flat chested woman will beat a big breasted woman

I think you got that backwards.

Compare Kira Knightly to Stacey Poole

[–]plybianz1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Honestly its all about walking with purpose and keeping your head up and shoulders as broad as they can get. Walk like you own the place and people will notice and respect you regardless of your height. I'm not saying to puff your chest out and go over the top then you look ridiculous, just own your path really

[–]Copidosoma1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Interestingly, these points are 99% applicable to being bald as well. Wearing shoe lifts doesn't help much but the rest is pretty well spot on.

[–]shortandspicy[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

A lot of great input on this topic. I appreciate all of your insights, and although I cannot reply to every post, I most certainly am reading all of them.

[–]Monsterzz1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I've noticed women don't go for the tallest of men and aim more at like a tall but not too tall spectrum. Just like how very attractive people get approached less than more reasonable looking people.

[–]Boltinder1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

When I read the part where women post height requirements on their tinder profile, it made me think what if men posted cup size requirements. How would that go I wonder? Good for a laugh I think.

[–]CreatedItJust2Saythi1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

'You are a human being and you have value'

None in The Red Pill denies you have value.

The Red Pill is about recognizing the feministly and socially banned fact that to the female brain looks is your only important genetic value, a ban aimed at making beta-looks pay the bucks while alpha-looks gets awarded the fucks.

[–]maimedwalker1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

5 7 in boots

My dude. If you rolled in the spot with boots and a fur vest on with n I'd think your the coolest cboy in the west

[–]shortandspicy[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

"Howdy pardners. You know where a fellow tall gentleman can rassle up a sarsaparilla? My whistle is mighty dry, yeehaw!"

[–]Snazzy_Serval1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

As a short guy 5'5, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to get out of this post.

Yes I know that dating is hard and women don't understand or simply don't care.

I know better than to whine about my problems and not to be the aggressive angry short guy. I know that life isn't fair etc.

The question is, what the fuck can I do as a short guy to start getting laid?

I'm already working in my career, I lift three times a week and I try to dress nice. Still not getting laid though so something is missing.

[–]warhawk1091 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

There’s trade-offs to either being short or tall. Certainly taller is better. But shorter dudes have certain advantages with weight training. A 2 lb increase in lean mass is going to have an immediate visible improvement in body composition on a 5’9 dude, whereas it might not look like anything on a dude north of 6’2. Also advantages in most lifts aside from deadlifts, since smaller range of motion. Smaller limbs means you can get large biceps/triceps relative to your size much faster than a taller dude as well. Less risk of injury also.

[–]metallicdrama1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Size only matters with your ego, wallet and your cock. Height only matters until they see what you’re really made of. Some of the biggest losers I’ve ever known were decent looking tall guys that had money. Some of the biggest Chads I ever knew were ugly broke mofos. Confidence.

[–]tranquilschizo1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Great read. I'm not short but 2 more inches would be nice. Between the 1 inch of my shoes and the dumb bitch mentality that gives a guy at least another inch, I'm at least "6 foot".

[–]WalterEArmstrong1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

"I wanted to save this one for last, because I think it's probably the most important. You have to accept reality and learn love yourself. You are a human being and you have value." If we could get that message across to every short guy in America there'd be a lot less misery and self loathing. FUCK what other people think of you!

[–]Alpha_Jedi1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Great write up. I've been blessed to be on the taller side of the spectrum which can have it's own challenges, but this is a very well written post. Cheers.

[–]freedominlight21 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You know, a giraffe is taller than a lion but it’s not the King of the jungle.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I’m 5’3 and had 2 good relationships and 1 bad relationship and multiple little ones. I suffered many rejections in my life, but ended up helping me a lot in life. I got used to rejection, being alone. That helped me start two income producing businesses. I’m single, 31, and my main hobby is paper stacking.

[–]juiceboxguy851 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I love this article. This guy fucks! At 5'7" I am mostly invisible to women in public. However, for some reason about 10% of women are into me (my first wife was 5'10" and a stone cold 9). I just learned to go after the hottest of that 10% and not worry about what I cannot have. I love TRP. I don't even care when women cheat on me anymore because I know they will at some point (my experience and confirmation bias on TRP), and I will just get a new and younger one when they do. Although I'm up there at 52yo so I figure I only have maybe 10 years left as a player. Spinning 5 plates at any given time after 3 years of lurking on TRP. A plate breaks and I just get a new one. Thanks TRP and my fellow TRPers.

[–]juiceboxguy850 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I forgot to mention, if you are a short guy and a woman gives you shit about her height, acknowledge it and come back with "yeah I'm short, but I'm taller on my back". Works well for me.

[–]Fucker_Of_Destiny1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I'm 6'4 give or take three inches and it's definitely unsettling to see how big of a deal some people women make height to be. even in daily life, I get more respect from other commuters etc probably just because of my height. The most sexually successful guy I know is 5'8-5'9 but he just makes up for it in other areas.

[–]Fulp_Piction3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

The start reads like excuses, like it or not wearing shoe slips to make you taller will get you laughed at (I'm 5'8" barefoot and would laugh at someone doing that) - your last point said to accept yourself yet you're advocating wearing slips? hamster spinning intensifies.

Taller guys are stronger, more physically imposing - they're just fucking bigger. It implies more masculinity (implies is the key word here), probably a bigger dick but why are you worried about some other man's todger? Chicks dig MASCULINITY, not necessarily height.

I'll re-iterate what you've said - girls have preferences. They'll tend towards tall guys, but that's outside of your control and way less of an issue than you think. Stop being short whiny pussies (the only thing worse than a short pussy), join a hardcore sport (rugby, soccer, gaa, mma), lift, act like a man, come back in a year and see if height really hold you back.

Bear in mind we're in an echo chamber where a massive amount of people who haven't got the memo about how life works can upvote what they want to hear.

[–]1roadmaptonowhere3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm 5'7, never had an issue with my height. This long post you wrote tells me you're giving too many fucks about this. It's all about frame really. If you resolve the underlying frame problems you have, you'll never ever need to worry about height again.

[–]blacklightsleaze2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy

If you are short that means some of your ancestors were short too. Which means that their shortness didn't prevented them from reproducing.

Anyway, I know some short guys and they are in both ends of the spectrum. They swag or they don't swag. First one do everything possible to improve and do it well with girls and overall with life. The latter just gave up or are waiting for some magic to happen.

[–]Snazzy_Serval0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

If you are short that means some of your ancestors were short too. Which means that their shortness didn't prevented them from reproducing.

The problem with that is that many of us are living in western countries (or just the US) and our ancestors were from a different country.

The problem is that my short ancestors didn't have a problem in their home country because being short is normal. Being a short person in the US is completely different.

Here's an example. My Dad is Cuban and I'm the height of a typical Cuban man 5'5. If I was born in Cuba I'd be fine and probably would have married long ago. Though I was born in the US in a state where almost everybody is white and my dating life has been hell.

[–]MarcosDomingues0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

By your own logic, if I'm ugly then my parents were ugly and that didn't prevent them from reproducing, so that means I'm not ugly?

[–]whatnololyea3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

By his logic, then that would just mean your ancestor's ugliness didn't prevent them from reproducing.

They probably had other things going for them.

[–]Snazzy_Serval1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Or their being "ugly" was normal for their original country. It's just that when they came to the US they became ugly.

[–]kurdishpower01-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Genetic recombination.. 2 brown eyed parents still are able to produce a blue eyed kid (chances are low).

2 midgets are still able to create some kid with a disease that maks him go up to 7"

[–]white_girl_lover1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

If u are short, u can actually use that as an advantage when meeting people. Like, since both guys and girls typically expect u to be weak and beta, u can surprise them by having great conversation skills, strong frame etc... given that u put the work in. This will surprise people and actually make you seem more interesting and attractive bc of this shock factor sorta thing going on. Im not a short guy, so i may be wrong w this theory but i read someones comment stating this so take it w a grain of salt

[–]rep_movsd1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

"There are real, tangible benefits to being tall" - this is so fucking true!

There are studies showing that tall people excel in all facets of life - a tall person automatically makes people submissive and has a better chance of getting what they ask for.

[–]Paladin29030 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

a tall person automatically makes people submissive

Uh, definitely not me. Lol.

[–]OceanPoultry1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

If you are a man, do not wear high heels ("lifts"). Women wear makeup bc they are ugly and insecure, but you are better than that. Embrace who you are or youre fucked.

[–]shortandspicy[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

"Just be aware of what this implies: if you think there's nothing wrong with being short, and you are wearing shoe lifts, you are lying to yourself. I am not in the position to tell anyone what they must do, but it is something to consider."

In no way does that contradict with my final thoughts.

[–]Forcetobereckonedwit0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Agree with all except the big cock part. Women really don't care. No, I mean really. It's a nice surprise that may tip the scales in your favor a bit, but it's not a deal breaker unless you're dating a vapid cunt, and why would you want to do that?

[–]flatcologne0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Is being short really as much of a negative trait as this post implies? I mean I'm tall myself but it hardly seems to do me that many favours. Every now and then I get girls saying they like other things about me like my eyes or having big shoulders, but height never really comes up.

Given how much variance there is from guy to guy in traits like attractiveness and charisma, I really wouldn't think small differences in height would make all that much difference - that is if we're talking about differences of a few inches and not a heads difference.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I mean I'm tall myself but it hardly seems to do me that many favours

How are you judging how many favours it does you? I think it's more likely that you just don't realise that it's doing you favours.

[–]flatcologne0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah most likely so. But I wouldn't call it much more than a positive accessory. If you're good looking it will more or less make you high status regardless of what else you have or don't have going for you, and the same can be said about if you're witty and charismatic. But just being tall will hardly have such an effect. An unattractive, uncharismatic tall guy isn't high status, he's just a low level guy who happens to be tall.

[–]AJ_Ak470 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I am short (5'4) and I am not packing at all... (painfully below average) I'd like to echo the OPs sentiment. I had to learn to love myself and accept the hand I was dealt, the biggest keys to my success have been staying cool, calm, and collected which seriously helps me apply things I learn from TRP and life in general, also you can't let yourself be controlled by your emotions, weak people do that, beta's do that, there's a certain strength that gets projected when you're able to confidently control yourself.

And as other guys have said "girls don't you sex and you don't owe them your time, attention, or resources." If a girl isn't going to fuck/fuck with you then fuck them.

Be proud if you're short, be cool, be yourself, I had to tap into the good I DID have to offer rather than focus on what I lack.

I explain to my guy friends who are tall, fit, and everything a guy would want to be that I'm playing this game on hard mode whereas they're playing on easy. Accept your flaws, own your shit, tap into the stuff that makes you great and start to share that shit with the world.

[–]vitamann0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

women who, upon first interaction, had made comments about my height, and because I didn't lose my cool, I was able to take them to bed and prove to them that it didn't bother me.

Shit tests. And I agree. 5'5" as well here.

[–]HansCool0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Work out and develop a sense of humor, you’ll do fine, you just won’t crush on tinder or pull an insta thot. There’s way more to happiness anyways once you’ve checked that loneliness box.

[–]baldginger690 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I did not read the whole post, but I have a buddy who is about that height and has always been really successful with women since we were in middle school. He's always excited to show me videos of him banging his girlfriends/fuck buddies and let me tell you, this kid could work for brazzers. He gets tons of girls (mostly taller than him). However, it's not like these girls know he has a huge cock before they sleep with him, but they are attracted to him due to how much confidence he has despite his height. Even if you are not hung like a horse, be confident just for the sake of being confident. He uses his height to his advantage as girls are very curious as to why a man of his height has so much swag.

[–]SteveRogersPill0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This post is great because as a 5’5 male I’ve never let my shortness EVER get to me. I’m not the most ripped guy but I’m trying atm., very outgoing, I do fun shit, and I’m not boring. When I started my TRP journey I was more worried about me just being scared to talk to women and now I get ioi’s from even tall girls. I’m still working on my game but all I can say is OWN IT. I never let tall dudes from approaching chicks at a bar or anywhere or intimidate me at all. So just own your shit. Love yourself, know your worth

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points | Copy

[permanently deleted]

[–]modTheRedPike0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Don't hotlink subs, including our own. Automod will remove it every time. Use archive.is.

[–]heldex0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I agree with most of this, but not ( and not only ) regarding muscles vs height.
I am pretty sure women like muscles more than height. But obviously having both is better than having one.
I just mean:

tall man > fit man is wrong, imho.

[–]Stormhammer0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I have a few tall female friends ( we're talking 5'11+ ) and, apparently while growing up, its almost ingrained in them that no guy will date them if the guy is shorter than them.

One of them is at least logical enough to realize confidence and good looks goes farther for her than being taller than her in high heels.

He apparently has a beef bus too.

[–]upyoars0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

By the way, you can always get limb lengthening surgery to get taller. https://paleyinstitute.org/centers-of-excellence/stature-lengthening/

Money solves most problems in life.

[–]shortandspicy[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

It isn't worth it, believe me. In addition to being excruciatingly painful and a small fortune, you're predisposed to leg breakage for the rest of your life afterwards. Say goodbye to leg day ye who enter.

[–]earringthrwy0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I’m fairly tall, and my height has been no advantage. I may be an outlier, because facially I am well below average. I think you short guys are up playing the advantage height gives. In my neck of the woods being tall isn’t an advantage at all.

[–]DreamBoatGuy250 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I just skimmed.

I'm short as well. I look at it like this, no one is born with every advantage in life, some people get stuck with one or more of the various less than desirable physical traits. Or they're from an unpopular ethnicity. Or impoverished. Or a long list of other things. Being short is just one of those unfortunate disadvantages. Yeah if you think about it for too long you'll start to stew about it being unchangeable despite how much you lift or about how hypocritically and unrepentantly vicious women are about a man's height, but there's no point in any of that because none of it will change anything. If you have goals and aspirations to fuck a lot of women in your life then you're only choice is to ignore your weaknesses and focus on building up your strong points. Physique. Facial Aesthetics. Powerful Voice. Alpha/Leader Personality. IDGAF Attitude. Social Intelligence. Game/PUA Skils. Dominant Bedroom Performance. Stylish Dress. Deep Character Hobbies. Money. Etc.

[–]manwithoutwire0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Well you make a good argument, this is quite false. It's a lot more than just height, sure it's a preference for some women like a big black dick is, but it's not the be all end all you make it out to be. What's more important is your ATTITUDE.

Today, I approached a HB7 at the gym whos an absolute giant, I'd guess about 6'4" and quite muscular, she could compete in women's powerlifting and walk away with a win. I'm 5'7" and she had no problem handing her number over to me, and agreeing to a date this Thursday. Good attitude, strong frame, relatively poor game as I'm an amateur but it all worked out.

[–]redxpills0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You may not be a drawf, but be like Tyrion Lannister of GoT. He accepts himself, and he knows his power is on the witty way to convince and persuade people to like him. It's a godly skill.

[–]wildbill19870 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Honestly man, I haven't cared about my height since High school. I'm 5'5 and never really had problems attracting women. I've been with short, and tall women, I've been responsible for break ups, and divorces. I'm not proud of any of those things. I ultimately blame the women. and of course their's those types that no matter what you will never attract. But you know what, thats Ok. I remember running into some random chick leaving a club in Colorado Springs. I was just starting a conversation with her, and it wasn't like I was trying to hit on her. She made a comment about my height, I responded with a, so? who gives a fuck. She jumped on my face right after that. She was a strong 7, Asian and slightly taller than me. 8 years in the Army Infantry tremendously helped my confidence, and two combat deployment later, effected me enough to just have that I don't give a fuck attitude. Everyone at work respects me. Maybe because I talked to them just how I talked to my shitbag Privates. But ultimately hurted how the women at work interacted with me. I intimidated them, this was something I eventually figured out on my own. I can't just go around acting like a drill sergeant, and telling everyone to fuck off, luckily I never got into trouble, since I really enjoy my job. But people know not to fuck with me, I don't care how fucking big you are, I'll rip your fucking throat out. Sure this type attitude can get me into trouble. But all it's done is made people steer clear of me. I just can't help myself sometimes, stupid, lazy, and disrespectful people trigger me. I remember when I first started my civilian job, I had some late forty something hag going through a divorce try to put me on the spot in front of everyone. She must have been a solid 8 back in her day, I told her to shut the fuck up with the most erect knife hand I have ever presented to anyone. She never fucked with me again. My explosive anger is something I'm still working on, but have made some great strides in getting it under control. Like going back to the Gym. It's really helped with maintaining frame. I'm 155lbs and ripped, plus a nice long thick beard, I've noticed dudes thinking twice before fucking heckling me. I swear women are more attracted to the beard than me. so yeah, just not giving a fuck about anything has tremendously helped.

[–]bladeofcrimson0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You say you are a human being and you have value. While I agree with the sentiment on a moral and philosophical level, we can never forget that society and people in general behave as though human beings have no intrinsic value. This is especially true in the sexual marketplace.

[–]riverraider690 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

> If you do it, do it because it feels good and it makes you feel more confident, not because it increases your chances of getting laid.

My trainer is short. 5' short, I'd guess. He's also the most aesthetically swole guy I know this short of Arnold. Very well groomed, dresses well, got a bit of skill and RP knowledge (some of that from me). He's drowning in 7-9s.

I can't tell from that how many pounds of muscle you have to add to compensate for an inch - though that's probably a good project for a social sciences phd. But it'd definitely there.

We have the math for height and money, btw. "$30,000 Per Inch" says google - though I could have sworn OkCupid found a bigger number.

[–]ncstaterepted0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Dude, what about the athletic benefits of being short? Speed, explosiveness, less distance for the muscle to work. Your lifts will get bigger faster, and your body will rip out faster, as a short man.

Ya'll are totally more athletic and require less mobility work than tall dudes, albeit tall dudes do have their place in sports as well.

Shorter dudes are more grounded, faster on the sprint, faster on the pivot and rotation, stronger on the big lifts, and more explosive than tall dudes.

But, if you don't care about performing well athletically... and you are only griping about being short in the sexual market place, then IDK what to tell you. You get ripped faster.

[–]Jacob_Weitser0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Very good post. Sums it up really good. In the end, for my opinion, height is an extremely important factor for first impression on a girl. You can almost never compensate height with anything else.

What im a little concerned about is, at least where i live, that the height standards of girls pretty much rise every year and are getting out of control. I am at least 6'2" guy, was measured 6'2" and 6'3" repeatedly but im already too short for quite a lot of women around here. When women say they want a tall guy then they mean 6'4"+ which is just around 5% of the population. In my opinion the cravings of women for the ever more extreme rises basically all the time...

[–]funkypandaz0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Being short isn't a death kill, but being short and brown makes you be slotted into an undesirable pool. Just how the racist dating system works in the West.

[–]cnctec900 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Well, I didn't agree with any of this. Really women fawn over tall men because it's code for a big dick? I don't agree with the protector argument either but that's one hell of a stretch. You can't tell me that when young women I mean junior high age who are talking about how attractive a male is and bring up their height they are using code to talk about the size of his dick.........that's certainly not true. I think it has way more to do with how being with a larger man makes them feel. For instance I've had a lot of ex's upon meeting me say things like omg I'd break you ( meaning I weigh more than you and that makes me feel insecure ) women a lot of times feel massive next to short men and has everything to do with their own self-esteem about how they look. Women want to feel small, they don't want to feel tall and fat, and being next to a man who is not only shorter than them but skinnier as well when they have self-esteem issues already is a recipe for disaster. However I am not saying this is applied to every woman who dates tall men, but I think the psychology behind this is far more complex than what you gave it credit for. I find it interesting that your entire post was mostly sex based which reads like only a male perspective on this since we males are mostly sex minded when it comes to relationships, that's a real truth. I'd be open to having a greater dialogue about this, I just think you're off on a lot of your points.

[–]thepesterman0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

What everybody is forgetting here is that looks don't mean shit to women, except only on a superficial level. Read the sidebar.

The only benefit of (what is socially considered) being good looking is the confidence that comes with thinking you look good.

[–]maimedwalker0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Actually tall men make worse fighter the best fighter will be 5 9 built like a shit brick house easily take a tall man down and pound his lanky ass or choke him low center of gravity is good in fights

[–]SpecialistWerewolf0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I’m 6’3. Height isn’t free pass. I’m grinding hard just to get a little bit of pussy like everyone else.

[–]IntrovertedMagma-4 points-3 points  (4 children) | Copy

I am around your height.. I grew up while the female members of my family made it their mission to make me aware of my lack of height..

So I became redpilled at a very young age.. And this helped become more successful than average/tall dude.. I studied hard, very hard.. I watched a lot of standups.. tried to mimic them and became very good at cracking jokes around everyone (teachers, bosses, girls.. hot girls)..

of course I am not going to lie, I had a double life.. During the day, the funny friendly bro.. During the night, a WAHMYN hater.. Yes, I hate their nature. They are fucked up with 0 sense of fairness/logic. I believe Hate is a good motivation to be the best..

And now I am a MGTOW monk, pussy isn't really worth hating your stature for.. Yes, with enough game you can get all the pussy you desire, but why waste all that time/effort? But hey, we all have different personalities/interests.

What do you want in life? You want to be a comedian? an actor? the shortest NBA player? a leader? the best in your career?? one of the most famous pickup artists? short men already did all of that.. You can do it, actually you have a better ability to do it because you played life in hard-mode and this made you more experienced..


[–]anabolic921 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I kind of found myself in a similar position regarding this point you made:

Yes, I hate their nature. They are fucked up with 0 sense of fairness/logic.

But I came to the point that it is a waste of time for me to hate. Why hating? Are you going to change them? Accept them for what they are.

As much as in my BP days, and I still have some days, I wish to get that women hooked to me and be loyal. I realize that it is the very same hypergamy that made her fuck me.

It is also the same hypergamy that one day it will make her ignore me and jump to a higher branch, but I just come into terms that it is pointless for me to hate/worry/care about it.

Just live your life becoming an interesting man for yourself: Life, study, be pleasant to be around, develop hobbies (what I will tell you that you don't know already), and understand that if you are her best option at the given moment she will fuck you.

[–]IntrovertedMagma1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

thank you.. amazing response.

[–]oliseo-2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy

You're a "man going your own way" are you? And yet here you are, still crying about Women never wanting you.

The very opposite of everything that MGTOW apparently stands for. Just fuck off and go your own way already.

But you won't. You'll claim you don't need Women, whilst spending every day slagging them off. Failing to see it's your bitterness and lack of integrity that pushes Women away from you. But you're not able to accept that and implement changes to overcome that, which is another reason Women don't like you. Because you're intellectually and emotional stunted. A massive turnoff. Being a cry baby who believes themselves to be a victim at every turn in life is fucking tedious to say the least, especially when they are bitter about everything whilst sat in their areses expecting people to stay and listen to their whining little Manchild petty issues about how no-one likes them and how they eat worms.

Women don't like you because you're nasty, petty, spiteful, and unwilling (not unable) to change that, because you enjoy being nasty, petty and spiteful, as it allows you to wallow in your own self pity.

I'm not going to pull any punches with MGTOW crybabies, they need it told as it is.

[–]Greek-God-Brody-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

6 ft here and got shit tested by girls telling me that I'm short.

You just can't let it get to you. Let go of external validation and seek validation from within, auto-validate yourself. That's the only way.

Shoe lifts is just masking your insecurity and letting it live.

[–]DochreanSepp-3 points-2 points  (0 children) | Copy

How so you know that being taller is a social improvement? I mean you are short, how would you know.

Short men tend to think negative things happen because they are short. Guess what, its because you are insecure about it.

There are plenty of short men who slay, because building muscle is easier and you look buff quite quickly.

[–]RatioRegnum-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

As someone comfortably over 6', I can say that height only matters if you make it matter. This is both in using the height you have, or in overcoming the height you don't.

My father was 5"4, but he exuded confidence. In his class photo around age 18 he's the smallest guy there, but he stands out with the aura of Jesus in a renaissance painting. My mom was 5'8", and quite the stunner in her day. In their wedding photos she is this shy, blushing bride, being swept away by a man who looks like he owns the world. His girlfriend before that, who I've seen in old photos, was also gorgeous And after he died, I wound up getting tracked down by another former girlfriend of my father, who never got over him. She showed me a picture of her age 21, and she was about 9.5 (for reference, I've only given five 10s in my life, and two of those are movie stars)

My uncle likewise married an astonishingly beautiful woman - he's around 5'9"

Let me point out that my father came from a dirt poor background, and at this point in their lives he and my uncle were working entry-level jobs while supporting the transoceanic transition of the family to a better future. They had nothing but confidence and work ethic at this point. Both moved on to considerable success.

Both were also eventually unmanned by their wives, sad to say. A cautionary tale, but also another story.

[–]thesquarerootof1-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

I am a guy that is 5 ' 5" and have been with a modest amount of women. One of my ex-girlfriends was about 5'7". I have had dated taller girls and a lot of them overlook your height if you have other attractive qualities. However, I am fairly attractive guy and have an athletic body type. Although I am short, I am very masculine (can grow facial hair easy, high T count, ect.).

If you are confident and act like you are 6 feet tall, women don't give a shit. Seriously. I have had major self esteem issues in high school because all my friends were 6 feet tall guys while I was 5 ' 5" . It's all confidence.

One thing I have seen shorter guys do they makes them look like they have low self-esteem is that they wear boots to make them look taller and they look "too buff". Sure, a lot of you will disagree with that, but has any of you met a really buff short guy with self esteem issues ? I was in the army and we had a lot of dudes like that. They reek of insecurity. I wear Vans that don't really make you look any taller and most importantly I am comfortable with my height. I am 26 now but if you mentioned my height when I was 16 I would be so insecure about it.

Anyway, I appreciate the post OP! This is from another short dude.

EDIT: I also wanted to add, as a shorter guy I have noticed that the women who care most about height are women who are about 5'1" and shorter. Go figure!

[–]kewell9-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

actually this is bullshit. they did a study turns out it's your height at 15 which implies it's actually your confidence. taller dudes tend to be more confident. case closed.

[–]Cthula-Hoops-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

I could also see not being taken seriously a problem too. I've caught myself doing it to be honest. Short men are simply not as imposing so whatever they say has no authority from a biological standpoint. We are still animals after all and just because somebody has appointed authority over you doesn't mean it registers on the level of male competition.

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I was with you till you said the earth isn’t flat. Do some fucking research.

[–]ich_bin_doch_geil-4 points-3 points  (3 children) | Copy

Women are allowed to have preferences? Sounds like some bluepilled beta male shit right there. Be an alpha, get what you want.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

Guy thinks it’s beta to let women choose what they want? Sounds like some angry incel shit right there.

[–]ich_bin_doch_geil0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

It just smells like a bullshit excuse to why the faggot that is OP cant get the woman he wanted and a rationalization as to why he took home the HB3 instead.

[–]B-L-G-Y-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

As I understand it, op was just saying not to let a woman's preferences stand in your way.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy

Being labeled by height is not the same as being labeled by skin color. Has to be the dumbest shit I’ve ever read. I hope this is all coming from a minority because if not, then that makes it 10x more stupid.

[–]Ochreata0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Just as we don’t excuse pussying out because of height, we don’t excuse nor accept the ‘minority’ label horseshit. Nature doesn’t give a crap and claiming you’re hard done by because of ‘x’ is just an excuse for failure.

[–]ThexNoobx12-4 points-3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm 5"11 barefoot, above average in looks and rock an earring in each ear. I can confirm that I pull way more pussy then all my 6"5 friends lol. Anyway, anything under 5"10 is short for a full grown adult male in America/New York and that's pretty much a fact.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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