tl;dr - Men aren't reared correctly. As a consequence of this, most men are simply boys that are extending their adolescence for as long as possible. This means that women are surrounded by low value (unattractive) men. This is driving up their urge to regulate the sexual behaviour of men through society-wide compliance tests. All men are failing these tests, even men in the anti-feminist camp. The specifics of this are not talked about or understood correctly at all, and it's important that men understand this. I implore you to read this full piece so that we all understand what's really happening.
Women are the gatekeepers of sex, men are the gatekeepers of commitment.
Men want sex, women want commitment. If a women gives you sex immediately, she gets labelled a slut. If a man gives commitment away too easily, he gets friend zoned. Keep these general rules in mind whilst reading this piece.
Male attractiveness
Men offer two things to women, value and comfort. Value is how attractive you are. It is your number out of 10. It can be summarised as the traits you have that indicate that you have the potential to move up a dominance hierarchy. The dominance hierarchy is the social structure that men formed in hunter-gatherer societies, and it was roughly based off of who could add the most value to the tribe. Men formed this hierarchy, and women mated with the men who were at the top. This ensured that only the right men would propagate their genes. Only some men all throughout human history were allowed to pass on their genes, which makes perfect evolutionary sense. If there are 10 men and 10 women in a tribe, why would you have each individual man mate with each individual women? Why not just get the man who has the highest value (ie. can add the most value to the tribe) to mate with all the women? That makes the most sense from a purely evolutionary perspective.
Men of high value are men that can move up dominance hierarchies. The traits that these men have are usually centred around risk-taking behaviours, and an ability to maintain your composure under these high risk situations. If I balance on a tightrope that's one foot above the ground, that's quite impressive. If I do it between two buildings, that's 1000x more impressive. If the wire is the same width, then that means the level of balance I'm displaying is the same, so the reason for why it's immeasurably more impressive when performed at a greater height is that the risk is greater. People who can partake in risk-taking behaviours, and maintain their composure whilst doing so, inspire awe and admiration in people. The men who were willing to venture into the unknown and conquer it were greatly admired. We formed hero myths centred around such behaviours.
How men test each other
Let's say you're an alpha male in high-school, and you see a dweeb walking down the corridor. You get a sudden urge to shoulder-check the dweeb and shove him into the locker. Why do you get this urge, and why do you laugh with your friends whilst doing it? Why do adolescent boys enjoy such behaviours? Well, it makes sense from an evolutionary perspective. If you and me are in the same tribe, and you're not acting right, then our tribe is going to suffer. We have women and children to protect and provide for. If you're acting in a way that indicates that you're weak, I will get the urge to toughen you up. I will get the urge to treat you poorly, to indicate that you're low down on the dominance hierarchy, and to force you to become stronger. Men bully and give each other a hard time to test each other and make each other stronger. Young boys will often wrestle each other. Male adolescents will tease each other mercilessly. Male bonding usually involves a lot of rude jokes that poke fun at each other. We usually enjoy these behaviours greatly, we call it 'banter'.
Let's say that you're insecure and experience a lot of anxiety. You would most likely walk around with your head down and hoping that you just don't get noticed. You don't want people to look at you, you probably just want to stay invisible. You would feel this way because if you're insecure, having more eyes on you ramps up your anxiety levels greatly. Giving a speech in highschool would fill you with dread. You would rely on your notes entirely and most likely shake during the speech. Being insecure and not thinking highly of yourself puts you in your head. You're anxious about your future, you feel regret about your past, and insecurity about your appearance. You're not in alignment at all. You're using up brain capacity on all these different things, and so you lack the ability to just focus on the present moment and act forthrightly.
Alpha males and their ability to play social games
The alpha male is not in his head, he is in his body. He is not thinking, he is just acting. He wouldn't need to rely on notes whilst giving a speech, he could just free-associate instead. Why is he able to do this? Because he thinks highly of himself. He's not dwelling on the past, or anxious about the future, or insecure about himself. He's able to have his thoughts, words and actions line up. Fighters will clear their minds before a fight, because if they're too busy thinking then that means that they're using up their finite amount of brain capacity that could be better used for fighting. If you want to achieve a flow-state, you can't be thinking, you just have to be acting. So high status men are able to act in the world in a forthright manner, and low status men are more inclined to stagnate and live in their heads instead.
Alpha males are able to actually enjoy giving each other a hard time. They don't take it seriously, and they actually enjoy the banter. They're capable of free-associating and having thick skin. They're able to play this social game. In high school, they give low status men a particularly hard time simply because it's fun to them. If you asked them why they're doing it, you would get a response that's something like "Don't worry, we're just having fun." That's all it is to them, just fun. They enjoy the game. They enjoy the test. They know they're good at it and so they welcome the challenge. They don't shy away from people, they're capable of partaking in these social games we play and winning whilst having a fun time. Evolution made men enjoy these games because we use it to structure the dominance hierarchy. We figure out who's the alpha and who's the beta based off of their behavioural characteristics. We don't create resumes for each male and measure their ability to add value to a hunter-gatherer tribe, we just make subconscious assessments of each other based off of our behaviours and act accordingly. The dominance hierarchy is very much linked to who can banter and free-associate and who cannot.
Social games and Shit tests
We're all aware of what a shit test is. It is tool that women employ to test a man's value. The shit test will involve her saying or doing something that's designed to see whether or not you're better than her from a value perspective. Women are hypergamous, so they're only attracted to men that are of higher value than they are. That means that they mate across and up the dominance hierarchy. If you greatly admire someone, you're more likely to qualify yourself to them and pedestalise them. You want their approval, so you try to prove yourself to them. If they insulted you in some way or indicated that they don't really like you, it would affect you emotionally and it would hurt. Likewise, if you were around someone who you didn't really care about, then you wouldn't qualify yourself to them. If they insulted you or indicated that they didn't really like you, you probably wouldn't even remotely care. We usually only want the approval of people that are better than us, or are of higher value in some way.
So when a woman gives you a shit test, your reaction to the test will indicate whether you think you're better than her or not. Qualifying yourself or backtracking when hearing a shit test means you're pedastalising her and wanting her approval, and therefore you're not engaging her hypergamous instincts. Likewise if you react with indifference, you're indicating that you think highly of yourself and that you don't need her, and inspiring attraction in the process. Responding to the test with a counter-test, or a playful insult, is the best response. Think of the shit test like an invitation to play a game. Flirting usually involves playful banter and light-teasing. The pickup artists called it 'game' for a reason. It's a social game you're playing, and people who aren't in their heads but rather are in their bodies and think highly of themselves are particularly good at playing this game.
How societies create men of high value
Every culture all throughout human history gave their adolescent boys a rite-of-passage. They would send their boys into the woods for a month, or into a dark cave, or something similar. They did this to transition the adolescents from boys into men. Young adolescent boys are indecisive and need decisions made for them. They don't like responsibility, they're easily afraid, and worst of all they're insecure. Insecurity sets in around that age. You start to become really self-conscious and dwell on all your short-comings. From a hunter-gatherer perspective, you're useless and not able to add value to the tribe.
A rite-of-passage would fix that problem. Being thrust into the unknown forces you to become decisive and courageous, otherwise you won't survive. It forces you to stop thinking and instead start acting. It forces you to stop dwelling on your short-comings, and instead focus on what you're actually capable of. You would exit the rite-of-passage with a new found confidence. That experience would be something that you can point to to justify having high self-esteem. If you survived it, you would now have a reason to think highly of yourself. You would now have the behavioural characteristics that indicate that you can add value to the tribe.
How modern society fails men
We have no rites-of-passage in our modern times, and as a consequence men are extending their adolescence for as long as possible. They indulge in all sorts of short-term gratification instead. For example, they indulge in:
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Video games which are a life achievement simulator.
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Podcasts, youtubers, online forums which are a social life simulator.
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Porn which is a sex-life simulator.
These three things are simulation versions of what men of high value get. Men who are acting correctly in the world are admirable, and so they get a social life and a sex life and they most likely experience feelings of accomplishment. What we've done is create digital versions of these social rewards and made them accessible to all men everywhere so the incentive to grow up is greatly diminished.
We also have a schooling system that doesn't allow young boys to form the dominance hierarchy correctly and prevents men from learning how to act right. When you get bullied, the way to stop the bullying is to indicate that you're a formidable person who isn't weak. They're testing you to see if you're valuable in some way. You're meant to figure out how to be fierce, and you're not meant to get help but rather develop the behavioural traits that command respect.
Running to the teacher and asking for help indicates that you're not formidable and not self-reliant, and yet that is what is taught to young boys. They're taught to not fight and to not be boisterous. They're meant to just sit still and submit to the teacher. They're taught to ignore all their biological impulses and not help each other grow. As a consequence, the dominance hierarchy stays static and doesn't move. The dominance hierarchy exists to make men grow, and to ensure that the men at the bottom aren't always the same men. The boys at the bottom stay on the bottom throughout their entire school lives, never being taught that they need to grow strong and become formidable. Men go to very dark places when they stay at the bottom of the dominance hierarchy for years on end.
Most young men also have parents that don't push their sons enough. Fathers should routinely encourage their sons to go out into the world and conquer it. Fathers should also stop the mother from coddling the son too much so that the son can enter the world and take risks and grow as an individual who doesn't need help. Parents need to foster independence, and they aren't doing a very good job of that in recent years.
How men make women feel
When Justin Bieber or Brad Pitt go onto a talk show, every woman in the audience screams and loses their minds. When one direction roles into town, women chase them and throw their panties at them. Whereas when Jessica Alba or Ariana Grande goes onto a talk show, the men just sit and clap. Women view the top percent of men with reverence, they throw themselves at them. But the corollary to that is that they view the bottom percent of men with disdain and contempt. The reason for this is simple if you look at it from an evolutionary perspective. Women are the selectors. They decide who gets to propagate their genes and who doesn't. Nature is that which selects, and women select, hence the term 'Mother Nature.' If women run for the hills from low value men, and throw themselves at high value men, that ensures that only the right men will have children. This is why women are the gatekeepers of sex. Women are the egg, and men are the sperm. Men can have hundreds of kids a year (ie. Genghis Khan), women can only have one (barring twins etc.). It makes complete sense that they're brutal when it comes to selecting men.
It also explains why women care way more about sexual assault and sexual harassment. This is a very important point. If I'm on a train and I feel a hand on my ass, and I look over and I see a women who's around my size groping me, I most likely will feel flattered and just laugh. I may even tell my friends about it and brag about it. From an emotional perspective, I won't care. However, if I'm a woman on a train and I feel a hand on my ass, and I look over and see a man of identical size groping me, I will feel violated. I will feel scared and humiliated. It would be a horrible experience. The reason for this difference in reaction is because women decide who gets to have sex and who doesn't. They're the gatekeepers of sex. This is exactly where their power lies. If you override who ability to select you and just grope her, you just took her power away from her. It isn't just the size difference between men and women that explains why they care more about sexual assault, it's the fact that they're the selectors. Men are apathetic towards ugly women, but low value men make women innately uncomfortable at a cellular level. Remember this fact.
Comfort and what women want
Earlier in this piece I mentioned that men offer women both value and comfort. Comfort is your willingness to commit and be monogamous. It is your ability to provide for her and protect her. Women have a desire for comfort because in hunter-gatherer societies they would die without male protection, especially during and after pregnancy. But men who offer women comfort right from the start get friend-zoned and never get laid. Why? Because value and comfort are roughly inversely correlated. Men game women for sex, and women game men for commitment. A women who gives you sex quickly is less likely to get your commitment. A man who gives his comfort too quickly will get a woman's time and emotions (ie. be a shoulder to cry on), but no sex. Men of high value have options, they have multiple women that they can seduce and sleep with. The more options a man has, the less likely he is to commit to one girl.
A women's fantasy is to get the guy that all women want, but he wants just her. She wants to get the commitment from the guy that has options. That's what Twilight is. The handsome vampire with impossibly high value that all women want, but he just can't get this Plain Jane out of his head. He lusts after this boring Plain Jane. She's not like other girls. That's a woman's fantasy. That's what 50 shades of grey is also. Handsome billionaire, impossibly high value, infatuated with a Plain Jane that all women can project themselves onto. She's wants to have to game him by being desirable and feminine to secure his commitment. Women love feeling feminine. They love feeling petite and submissive. They want to feel desirable. But they can't just snap their fingers and induce this feeling within themselves, they require a high value man to evoke that feeling from within her. If she has no high value man in her life, then she won't ever be able to feel truly feminine, desirable, submissive etc. Without high value men around her, she won't act in a way that's desirable to men.
Compliance tests
Women test a man's value with shit tests, but they also test comfort. They test comfort by giving men compliance tests (AKA. comfort tests). Compliance tests are far more nefarious and harder to spot then shit tests. They are far more pervasive. But they must be understood because they're more relevant now then they've ever been. Let's say that you're a guy who works out, works hard at his job, has a lot of cool friends, and has a lot of cool hobbies. You're an in shape, ambitious guy with a great social life. You're a catch. You then get a girlfriend. She will begin to give you compliance tests in order to test your comfort. Here's some examples to illustrate what compliance tests are.
"You don't need to work out so much, I kind of prefer guys with softer bellies, it's nicer to cuddle with. Besides, you could hurt yourself at the gym."
"Why do you work such long hours? You're so tired when you get home, and we can never spend any meaningful time together."
"You always spend your weekends with your friends instead of me. It's like you prefer them over me. Do you not like spending time with me?"
"Kayaking is way too dangerous, you're going to hurt yourself! Plus it's so expensive. Let's find activities that we can do together instead."
Now a year later you're out of shape because you stopped working out, you're no longer ambitious because you stopped grinding, you no longer have friends, and you no longer have cool hobbies. And so now your girlfriend is no longer attracted to you. But the reason she's no longer attracted to you isn't because you're an out-of-shape loser with no friends, but rather it's because you failed her compliance tests. The compliance tests are designed to lower your value to ensure your commitment. She's taking away the things that make you attractive to increase your comfort. When you fail a compliance test by bending the knee, you're indirectly communicating to her saying "I'm not high value. I don't have options. I need you because I can't get other women. I will do whatever it takes to make you happy." Remember, we seek the approval of the people we pedastalise. And women are hypergamous, and aren't attracted to men that pedastalise them because it indicates that your value is lower than hers. So when you fail a compliance test, you're letting her control you because you think it will make her happy, but you're actually indicating a lack of abundance and by extension of that low value.
Now because you're no longer attractive to her, you no longer evoke feelings of femininity and desirability from within her. You once made her feel submissive and sexy, but now you don't. Only high value men can do that. She no longer feels how she wants to feel. She wants to dote on you. She wants to be cute and look at you lovingly. She wants to have a symbiotic relationship with you where she serves you and treats you amazingly. It used to bring her great joy to bring you joy. But she can't actually experience any of that unless you actually evoke those feelings from within her, and you can only do that if you're high value.
Compliance testing starts small, and only escalates once you fail. It will start at tiny things, like getting you to do some more chores, or letting her check your messages, or forgoing some activity in order to to some other activity with her. The more you yield, the greater the compliance test. After a while if you keep bending the knee, you're suddenly replacing sex with massages, doing most of the chores, giving up your drums because they're too loud, spending all your money on her, letting her not pay rent at all, letting her walk all over you. Women will act as bad as you let them, but they don't want to have to act that wayf They want to feel feminine and submissive, but only high value men can evoke those feelings. If you continually fail compliance tests, you will start to evoke feelings of disdain and contempt from within her. Why? Because women view low value men with disdain and contempt. And since you're failing these compliance tests, you're low value.
If you want your girlfriend or wife to act a right, then you have to act right. You cannot demand respect, you have to command respect. The feeling of femininity and desirability that you evoke from within her is how she games you. Remember, women game men for commitment. She games you by acting in a sexy, submissive and feminine way. She wants to have to act this way in order to keep you around. She will act as bad as you let her. Let her game you. She wants to game you. She wants to have to earn your commitment. Never forget this.
The consequence of a world filled with low value men
Most men nowadays are weak. They don't pursue meaning. They live from craving to craving. They bitch, moan and complain a lot. They don't have an allegiance to anything at all. They prefer to talk about their feelings rather than implement solutions. They don't take risks. They can't maintain their composure in stressful situations. They choose the simulation version of social rewards over pursuing the real thing. More and more men are low value. The number of high value men in western countries is diminishing very, very quickly. As a consequence of this, women are surrounded by low value men. They're surrounded by men that make them feel uncomfortable on a cellular level. They don't like low value men even looking at them, or getting any form of sexual gratification from them in any way at all. It repulses them. What they do want from these low value men is comfort. Remember, low value men give comfort way too quickly. Women expect low value men to be the shoulder to cry on, to be the beta male that serves them. To provide for her, but never get any sexual gratification from her.
The #MeToo campaign is a macro-level compliance test designed to regulate the sexual behaviour of low value men, and to also get low value men to regulate each others sexual behaviour. Women want low value men to provide comfort, without ever getting sex. This is ideal for them. They want to ensure that these men will ask for consent every step of the way, and be incredibly hesitant to ever escalate, and be hyper vigilant of ever trespassing against her sexually, and to get these men to monitor other men's behaviours so they can regulate each other. It's all a compliance test, but on a macro level. But remember, compliance tests start small and only escalate once the man has failed the first ones. Feminism is ramping up it's compliance testing because men continually bend the knee and yield to these tests. This is just the next level. And it won't ever stop. It never stops. Compliance testing never stops, even when you're a shell of your former self and are only used for the money you provide with no thanks, it still continues.
You pass a compliance test by not bending the knee. You maintain an abundance mentality, so that you won't be willing to completely change who you are in order to keep her around. You maintain a frame that indirectly communicates that if she doesn't act right, you'll leave because you have options.
What men need to do
If women see a low status male not bending the knee and is instead railing against women in some way, they see an unruly slave. They see a man not doing what he's supposed to do. They see a man that's attempting to demand respect, instead of commanding respect. What happens when a slave is unruly? The slave master cracks the whip even harder. A lot of the men in the anti-feminist camp fall under this category. Feminists are seeing what they believe are low value men who are refusing the bend the knee. This doesn't suddenly make these men value value, it just makes them unruly slaves. High value men don't spend their time arguing with feminists online, or watching feminist cringe videos, or anything like that. High value men are off acting within the world, not wasting their youth arguing with idiots. So when women encounter these anti-feminist men, all they see is a low-status unruly male not doing what he's told. The anti-feminist guys aren't really helping that much in regards to turning the tide around when it comes to feminism and all the chaos it's created. The only men, the only men, that can turn the tide around are men of high value.
When women see MGTOW, they don't see high value men that are refusing to date them, they just see low value men saying 'You can't fire me, I quit!' They just don't care. Low value men doing anything other then bending the knee just annoys women. It's not going to change their mind. Only high value men can do that. Only high value men can evoke feminine and desirable behaviours from women. Women will often imprint on their partners politics and beliefs once she's with a man that's she's attracted to. I once heard a quote that was something like "A woman won't have time for feminism if she has a hard dick chasing her around at night" and it's entirely true. Women don't act right unless men act right. You want her to be feminine and desirable? Well then you need to be a high value man. You need to be a formidable risk taker. You need to be able to banter and play the game well. Only then will you evoke that side of her. All women are fully capable of being both loving and doting partners and also cruel and emasculating shrews. The side of her that's brought out into the world is entirely dependent on the men she's around. What side have they earned?
Many men nowadays are railing against feminism. They don't like what they're seeing, and they try to fight back against it. But they're going about it all wrong. How can you expect women on a macro scale to act right if men on a macro scale won't act right? You can't demand respect, you have to command respect. It's should be self-evident as to why feminism is ramping up in recent years, it's simply because men aren't acting right. They're hardly men. They're boys. They're weak. And women are responding exactly how nature intended. The antidote to this is for men to recognise on an individual level that they need to do away with their Peter Pan syndrome and start behaving like their ancestors. I walk down the street and see men with glazed over eyes, who would have very little recourse if somebody decided to impose their will against them. These men don't deserve the loving, doting side of women. Only men who have tested themselves and become formidable and competent deserve that side of women.
In order for men to become who they were meant to become had they been reared correctly, the need to create a rite-of-passage for themselves on an individual level. Recognise that there's a part of you that's resentful and angry and wants to impose your will against others. Tame this side of you, integrate your shadow. Take up martial arts. You'll learn to control this part of you so that you can leverage it voluntarily if somebody tries to trespass against you. Approach women to test yourself against nature. Take social risks and practice maintaining your composure whilst doing it. Routinely do things where you don't know what the outcome will be. Stop using porn, podcasts, shows and food to run from all your negative thoughts. You have to accept your shortcomings that you have no control over, you have no other choice. You need to stop dwelling on your past regrets, and instead re-frame them as lessons that made you a stronger person. It's vital that men do these things, and stop being weak. We have no other option.
A woman's love, respect and loyalty is one of the most valuable things in this world. It's something that all men seek. You don't get to have it by default, you have to earn it. You have to prove yourself. You have to communicate that you're a capable individual, who can play the game well, who has brought themselves into alignment, and is acting how nature intended them to act. Without men acting right, women won't act right. You can't just complain about feminism and the current societal standards, you can't demand change, you can only command change. The more we fail these compliance tests, the further into chaos we descend. By and large, men get what they deserve when it comes to women. If all the men in the world started to act right, a lot of these problems would dissipate. The nihilistic attitude in this sub is a dead-end. It's weakness. It's an avoidance of responsibility. You're a node that's within a network, and so everything you do ripples out and effects the world in some way. You're going to meet a thousand people in your life, and they're each going to meet a thousand people. That means you're only one person away from a million people, and two people away from a billion. You have more influence then you think. Start doing what you know you should be doing.
Yes, which is why a 'can do' attitude and 'I'm the prize' mentality matters, but it requires action, not just reading about it and dreaming. A dreamer is no better than a complainer. They're both trapped in their own head, in a state of inaction.
This is why men should look at what will help them move up the hierarchy, and then break it down into actionable steps, and make this a routine that's executed daily. So what things matter and will help you move up? Also, it's important that each one will help out.
Appearance
Mentality
Status
You know where most guys fail? They become nihilistic with a pessimistic outlook. They sit around women and they complain about how life is hard, unfair, and instead of learning the rules of the game, and adapting, they let their environment defeat them. That is mental death.
There are two parts to death, the mental death, and the physical death. If you give up on yourself mentally, you are as good as dead. You are not living anymore, you are existing at the whims of everyone else.
Women hate this guy, and why shouldn't they? He's a pathetic loser. He is the guy who rather than takes action he feels sorry for himself and thinks everything is unfair rather than taking action and fixing it. He cries, plays video games in solitude and is generally a waste of an organism.
This guy has the world at his feet but instead cries like a little bitch. She already has girlfriends, she doesn't need another one.
That time playing video games could be spent in the gym, but he doesn't have a winners mentality. That time whining could be spent learning an instrument, but he's too busy wasting time merely existing, instead of managing time to live like a king.
There is a golden rule in the natural world, 'adapt or die'. A lot of men have chosen to die.
What young men should realize that they still have plenty of time for this change to be worth the effort. Even if you are 35, life can get much better and for 99% of the population you can drastically improve your life. So much of losing weight is just getting out into the world doing something you like.
Even when you grant that many men are dealing with untreated mental illnesses that are medical things (because society is sick and infects all of us) that are their excuse for being weak, all but the most terminal of patients have the power to improve themselves. It requires a philosophical change, but drugs can be a bridge.
After years of pickup, you grow jaded. I would never marry nor live in cohabitation with a woman. I pursue but I am uncompromising in my life path and endeavors.
Years of pickup and red pill awareness. Its not your girl. Its just your turn applies here.
I highly recommend any young blood look into entrepreneurship, poker, comp sci/coding etc. Get paper right.
I've met many good women in my life but none I'd marry. Its not intelligent to swear away current and future earnings plus sexual access.
Game never stops. Not in the mood? #next Toxic behavior? She's out stayed her welcome.
The sec you cohabiting or married and or have kids, its not ending well.
I'm on the other side of that. I did all that crap and now the question is, "now what?" I'm in my 40s and have pretty must no interest in putting up with ANY bullshit, so it's hard to even get the ball rolling wanting to meet women let alone put in the effort to even try anymore.
The last 9 months or so I've pretty much just been spending the weekends crushing my Netflix watchlist. Every now and then I'll go out for a group event and once in a blue moon I'll meet someone that I'm halfway interested. In the last year that's been 1 person. 1 single woman who caught my interest that made me actually consider dating again. Of course she was a huge time waster so that didn't last long.
At this point I'm content to save my money and just retire early and not be bothered with the bullshit of dating and trying to go out and get laid via day or night game. Paying 19 year olds for a fun weekend now and then just seems like it'd be easier, cheaper than dating, and they're FAR hotter than women I normally meet in my day to day life. Since women are "just your turn" nowadays I'd rather they be on my terms. You're not paying them for sex, you're paying them to leave.
So what would you recommend the younger people on this subreddit? to do what?
Focus on yourself.
The idea is when you start maximizing the first 2, women will seek you out instead of you having to chase them like guys to in their younger years.
For guys who are in that building phase of your life, I guess just focus on #1 and #3 since #2 comes with age anyway if you're not a total retard at planning for the future and working at a gas station or McDonald's throughout your 20s and 30s. Basically if you're an average guy in the early years of a career, then the rest will fall into line on it's own, all things being equal.
IF you really want to maximize your success with women, then pick hobbies that are chock full of hot women. For example, become an amateur photographer would put you into the world of wannabe models. The catch is that these hobbies would have to be things you're actually interested in, otherwise you're just chasing women again and you're not really doing it for you. You could do it for both reasons of course, but only you will know if that's actually the case.
A real, truly self-actualized man IS the prize. He is inherently MORE valuable than all but the absolutely hottest of women. Which is why all the women will flock towards him.
The hottest women are valued less than the most competent/successful men.
Generally speaking, if a given person (man or woman) had the opportunity to spend lunch with either the hottest woman on Earth or someone like Elon Musk or Donald Trump, they're going to go with the latter.
A top woman is useful for a single man, but a top man is useful for all the men and all the women.
Yeah, there are so many hot women but they are a dime a dozen honestly and after you'd done what you want it would get old. It would never get old having a unique mind and someone powerful like a billionaire inventor or truly prodigious and remarkable genius.
Men are given the best deal as we can rise so far above women that the life of an instagram obsessed 9.5/10 who loses her mind when she gets less that 100 likes on a photo on fb or not enough orbiters worship her that it seems pathetic so many of us get worked up about it.
Except for Betas and Omegas.
Only if he actually is a prize though. You can tell yourself all kinds of pretty little lies about being the prize, but when the rubber meets the road if you don't have the three 6's, most women aren't going to give you the time of day. Being truly exceptional in some way can mitigate this to a large degree, but if everyone were exceptional then nobody would be.
If you think that the hottest women have more value for society than a man like elon musk, you have no clue.
Better to die a free man, then die as an economic slave for the gynocracy.
Your entire post rings true, but you have to understand that eventually guys get ground down and give up. I think this is a big reason why so many guys are just throwing their hands up and going MGTOW. They're not even trying anymore because they've seen from others or have experienced it for themselves that the juice isn't worth the squeeze.
That's been my experience, after reading and implementing what I've read here since 2012. The women nowadays are carousel riders with deep mental problems that are not interested in raising a nice family but would rather just be a liability. All this work and all you get are immature plates for sex that are far worse than prostitutes, which I guess is better than nothing as long as you don't get one pregnant or end up in court.
I'm starting to get ground down after years of hard work. I wonder why not just enjoy my life and do what I want even if its video games. After all my bills are paid I can still get laid many times a week. Why even bother with modern relationships when they bring nothing to the table and in fact they bring negative.
Even if you think you have found LTR material it could all just be an act, even if you vet them well you never know how many years they can they put on an act before you are tricked into commitment on fradulent terms.
This is just wimping out. Find a religious girl, or go to another country that is more traditional. I guarantee you, the world is not empty of healthy women who want to get married and raise a family. If you're not up for the challenge, fine, but it's pathetic to blame it on "the women nowadays".
Of course I blame it on the women nowadays they are the ones that created this "challenge".
I guess I am expected to leave the country and my business and the life I have built to have a chance for a decent woman.
Or kill themselves. There's a reason why the suicide rate for men is 4 times as high as women. And then feminists blame it on "toxic masculinity".
While I appreciate the steps listed above I do think mental illness should be taken seriously. I'm not saying you're wrong, the mindset it right, but can be hard to adapt for someone who's had to deal with a ton of shit.
I agree but, if you want women, go get women. Most men piss away their lifetime in self sacrificial lamb and servitude to the female biological strategy.
Its not high high school sweet heart. Girl dedicated her teens and twenties. Its cawk carousel during best year's. Empowerment being Chad's booty call.
Climbing the dominance hierarchy is obv ideal but, it's a double edge sword as it plays to female hypergamy.
Social media is the portrayal of female nature.
If not for declining fertility and SMV, her behavior wouldn't change. She wouldn't put on the act to rope in a cuck.
Its ideal to tap into and unlock one's potential. Even then, if we're Justin biebz, quarter billionaire, our dating market is very diff. Someone needs to save that kid from himself and female hypergamy.
Get busy living or get busy dying
I feel most men stuck in nihilism are still in college. I know i was, but eventually i moved towards a more absurdist outlook. The two have a lot of similarities. They both deal with living in a meaningless and random universe. The big difference is how they deal with that fact - nihilists see there no point to do anything, because its all meaningless. Absurdism requires that we must live and create our own meaning as a sort of rebellion against the random and meaningless universe. I think its a step thats important to take and changes your outlook on things
Live like a king? Kings are chosen at birth not made. Life is predetermined and theres no such thing as free will. No need to fret over what makes someone a loser or a winner it's all been decided by natural selection.
This is empirically correct.
This is what only a deliberately pessimistic mind would conclude. If I fret over what makes someone a loser or a winner, it may be just what I needed to begin treading down the path of being a winner. The scientific fact of everything being predetermined and free will being an illusion doesn't even become relevant!
Ah, I see you've been reading 12 Rules For Life as well.
I stopped frequenting this sub a year ago because I didn't like the direction of bitterness and cynicism towards women, even though it was understandably so. I didn't see how those attitudes would result in an optimal resolution. It was dangerously alienating and tribalizing young men. Randomly came on trp today and I'm happy to see this fantastic response in the sub.
Seconded. Not everyone may agree with all trp philosophies but posts like this one are 1) are well written, insightful, and contain good advice, 2) not bitter or otherwise embarrassing, 3) genuinely analyzing and trying to figure out social phenomena, and 4) about self-improvement rather than some sort of revenge.
If more of trp was like this, the whole community would gain greater social acceptance and I think both genders would end up benefiting from it on a whole. This is how you change minds. Keep it up.
How do you define revenge?
We’re all here because we bet on the wrong horse, why don’t you stop judging us and climb aboard.
I could be wrong but what I think he means by revenge is harboring resentment and acting out on it. We're not judging. Like we said, these feelings are understandably so, with the way things are. But suffering is the natural state of reality, not the exception. We all (men and women) have reasons to be angry and resentful, but if we acted out on our resentment, the world would unquestionably be filled with even more suffering. On the flip side, we each have so much potential to impact our surroundings positively, but that good potential dies if we become corrupt with resentment or just stand back and do nothing.
Revenge is trying to achieve justice by exacting punishment on people who have wronged you. Not always unjustified, but the problem arises when people try to punish entire categories of people for the wrongdoings of few. Extreme militant feminism is a perfect example--in some people's eyes, every single man is a rapist and out to hurt women just for fun.
Not totally sure what horse you're talking about, but I judge OPs post to be a good one.
Can you elaborate what you mean by that?
Can you point me to some of that? Don't worry; you have a general amnesty.
Did you guys clean this place up?
I stopped reading a few years back mainly because reading it on a regular basis left me more upset than was really necessary. Once you get the concepts and they become part of your person, you really don't need the checklist or 10 ways to respond to a shit test. Sex isn't really difficult to get any more, mostly the reading I do is more oriented towards improving my life elsewhere and usually I'm using a more specific source.
Looking around, it seems like you have addressed this? I see a lot more positive action and a lot less whining about the nature of women.
Nice job actually. It's hard to change the direction of a community.
We are trying. On one hand, we have a lot more people here now. On the other hand, the chiefs brought on some new mods and we are trying to get a handle on things. Are we perfect? Well, of course (no...). However if people would report shitposts more it would make things easier.
And I was sincere to the guy above. It was a concern troll, but not offensive like the whining children I already banned in this thread: he does indeed get a general amnesty if he wants to unleash all his issues on me. (I might remove the response after, but ZERO chance of ban as long as, well, no posting illegal shit, etc.)
You first read the sidebar? Of course not, you'd know that was just the anger phase.
That's not it at all. I read the entirety of the sidebar maybe 4 years ago? The anger phase has long come and gone. Maybe a better way to explain it would be that if you were fat and then fixed your diet and became healthy - why would you stick around the loseit community? The next step is just to move on to better things.
Anyways, the state of the sub as it is right now is a lot better than it was when I stopped reading. I wanted to thank the mods for what must have been a long, tiresome process of tuning down the noise so that the signal could be heard.
What is weird about the internet is that people are giving away very valuable advice for free.
This post helps reconcile the rp knowledge I have with my adversion to the nihilism that has taken over so much of society.
Free advice. You get what you pay for.
On a serious note: I agree that video games and porn are dangerous distractions. Listening to podcasts while you work towards a goal is 100% legit in my book.
I feel like I should be paid money for having to read that.
I think it could potentially still make you subconciously believe within your brain that you are socialising and therefore you have less of a drive to go out and meet new people while even hanging around with the people that are most important to you.
Also, podcasts do provide an artificial source of dopamine. Although I think getting rid of all artificial sources of pleasure in todays society is very difficult to do (i.e with Porn, videogames, tv, sports, netflix, reddit, youtube and other social media etc which I am presuming a lot of us consume here.), it is definitely detrimental to our motivation and overall happiness.
I think u/hjalmbre made an important distinction though. He said "while working towards a goal". If I'm driving 3h alone for work instead of listening to music, I'm going to be putting on a podcast.
DId you mean */u/Hjalmbere?
I did, thanks. My brain no work so good yesterday
Why not make phone calls and network instead? I used to find it weird how my father would be on his phone the entire drive somewhere but it makes sense. I was just listening to podcasts and audiobooks instead making my own phones calls.
Can't really do that when driving across mountain ranges with rubbish reception. As it is I download the podcasts before I go.
Can audio record a diary to make an output instead of just inputting all the time.
Yeah the only way to truly get rid of those things you have to load a new routine into your mind basically reprogram you brain for it.
I realized the cold turkey route only works for so long. Because what you've essentially done is just drop everything without giving yourself other outlets to work with.
I definitely think listening to a Podcast simulations the socialization a little too much. Intellectual debates do the same thing - you get the experience of reasoning through complex and nuanced topics, without retaining any of the information that was present. Social podcasts give you the feeling of being with people without developing your ability to generate good conversation or banter on the fly.
I play video games with my GF is that gay?
Only if you suck a dick while doing it.
Only if you let her change the way you would play the game as if you were alone.
Good observation. I don’t let her win if that’s what your asking.
Don't be afraid of the GTA loading screens, my friend.
I mean it's a stimulating hobby just like everything else, I don't see why you'd have to come down so hard on it you know.
Advice is free but who can do it?
Doing is the hard part. You can’t get experience by reading, only by making mistakes, that is why history and nonfiction is better than advice, because they are: mistakes you can profit from.
Advice is like crying and begging audience to be successful, because without competition men don’t have option to get better, only through teaching other man to stand up and fight, we can welcome new warrior, not knights with clean new armor; those never get their life truly tested.
Man need to help build competition, because we can all get better, more competitive we get, better my circle and my tribe become.
Look Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Conor McGregor, best example, both man wins by challenge each other.
Competition, raise the bar.
Good luck.
This is why I love this place, you people have done so many wonders for people like me. Thank you!
I like your contrasting of TRP to a nihilistic world view. Posts like this help us to stay in touch with our inner mission as males.
Nihilism is self reflective. I would be happy to see it encompass modern society.
What I see now is tribal hedonism, which is horrible, from a 'keep the lights on for the nation' kind of way.
Nihilism is the questioning of what values we have (kill god to remake him in your modern vision) in order to build towards a next stage of morality and collective actions. And like Marshall McLuhan wrote in medium is the message, we cannot see modern society through a modern lens, only the previous society, or; fish can't see the water
this is why TRADCONS see modern society as a broken Norman Rockwell painting, and children are able to see it for what it is... This is why MGTOWS are buying waifus, and peterson kids are seeing it as a their own personal Heraclean tasks...
All attempts to jam a square peg (halcyon cherry picked past) into a round hole (the automation of the masculine, and worshop of the femenine). Again, as McLuhan describes as the movement from cold to hot mediums.
Sumary: Everyone is purchasing Delorians, and confused why they aren't going back in time.
Stopped reading right there - assume the rest is just pure shit as well.
This is, at its very best, an appeal to the "one true man" and Peter Pan tropes. Most men are just Peter Pans...but not you, you are a real man judging every other man.
Fuck that shit.
It's not quite giving as trading for recognition and notoriety in some cases in others it's simply submitting reflections to be challenged.
Great read. Full of good information. Thanks for your time.
Instant sidebar material in my opinion. Once you start reading, you find yourself sponging up the distilled red pill with every sentence, till the last word of this brilliant piece hits like a gong.
OP clearly draws on insight from Patrice, JBP, TRP itself, and yet manages to bring all of it together in a systematic and original way, presenting his own, valid understanding of the problem. My main question was "who is this, and why haven't I been reading posts from him before" even if at certain points I could not fully agree with the author, that did not matter and did not take away from the enlightenment gleaned. It even functions as a nice critique of TRP itself, pointing out the nihilism and other failure modes.
Seconded. I saved this to read this pure redpill in the future. Hell, I'm considering re-reading this once every week. It's that good.
I've been lurking here for more than 6 months, and this is without a doubt one of the best posts I've read. It helped me classify some of my own behaviors. Thank you, OP.
I've been reading TRP for years and this is one of the best posts I've seen. Most posts, even the good ones, merely focus on obtaining a given outcome: pussy, muscles, discipline, etc. Rarely does a post dig to the deeper philosophical and anthropological underpinnings of culture.
The author of this post clearly draws a lot from Jordan Peterson, yet it's bold enough to think past what JP has said publicly and draw conclusions of his own... or perhaps say what Peterson is thinking but won't state publicly.
Amazing post. Definitely saved.
I think this IS Jordan Peterson.
Not enough "roughly speaking" and "slaying the dragon" though
And the literature is quite clear on that
Honestly what i was thinking, just wow.
This is an invaluable post, should be in the sidebar
Only 6 months? You missed the glory days. Go back to 2014-2016.
A lot of stuff posted on TRP is straight up garbage that’s not worth correcting/commenting.
I thought this post was going to be another unintelligent rant against feminism, but this post was very well written and i gained a new perspective on something i thought i already understood. Thanks
I'm not sure how this got so highly upvoted and gilded. He's a tradcon whining about the world in which we live and thinks things will go back to some 1950s ideal if guys step up and somehow fix things by... being better at getting laid so guys can make demands? :smh: It's naive and chock full of faulty premises.
There's a chicken & the egg element to this as well. Many of these digital alternatives are seeing widespread adoption because the traditional accomplishments for average men are either impossible to attain nowadays due to cultural shifts, or they no longer result in the accolades and rewards men previously received for doing so.
In other words once upon a time society saw fit to keep women's hypergamous nature in check so betas could get a fair distribution of women in their prime. Getting men laid and providing them a family to provide for IS WHAT BUILT WESTERN SOCIETY. Now that we've destroyed the nuclear family and liberated women's sexuality the jig is up. It's only a matter of time now until the destruction of western society and western values as a whole.
The only question that remains is whether or not those reading this are willing to put in all of the hard work to get some morsel of sexual success with women who aren't going to be loyal (it's only your turn after all) and who are going to be alpha widowed by the time they're 18-20. This is why making yourself your mission is so critical:
IF you want to get into great shape, do it for yourself.
IF you want to learn a new hobby or skill, do it for yourself.
IF you want to take that job, do it for yourself.
Do not be society/women's slaves when you're not going to get the traditional benefit that labor used to carry with it. YOU have to come first and be #1 in your life. If you make anyone else your mission, then you're setting yourself up for failure.
Lastly, doing all of that with the hope men can somehow change society as the OP seems to imply is foolish at best. It's a TRADCON ideal that isn't going to happen, not unless there's huge sweeping changes that happen to society at large, and that's not going to happen until we hit rock bottom.
May I request a +1 point for the OP, bsutansalt?
This thread is a worthy conversation for TRP. Its fitting for insight to be rewarded with visibility.
I've read through this a few times, even half way through a post on it.
This subversive post hides a TRADCON argument under half a page of redpill 101 platitudes. I don't know if thats motte and bailey, or a bait and switch, but take another read, I don't think I'm wrong here
Yup. The end of the OP's post really betrays this and you can see it clear as day he still puts them on a pedestal:
He's a tradcon whining about the world in which we live and thinks things will go back to some 1950s ideal if guys step up and somehow fix things by... being better at getting laid so guys can make demands? :smh: It's naive and chock full of faulty premises.
it is really tricky though. tells you all the things you believe to prime you for the second half, where it walks you into the madonna mindset
Thanks for taking the time to write this, never thought about the beta distribution under Western civilization before. One of the more interesting angles I’ve started to perceive things from after delving into TRP... the realization that if so many other men like me were out there choosing to live ineffectively due to their embrace of a BP mindset then due to the subsequently shrinking pool of successful “alphas” to choose from, women (the reward for high SMV) are becoming increasingly stratified, on a purely sexual interaction level, among a small population of high valuers, leaving nothing or less desirable leftovers for those lower SMVs. Obviously, snagging a more desirable “leftover” as a low SMV is a recipe for disaster... which basically equates to your point about alpha widowing (though my noob TRP ass hadn’t picked up that it was that yet lol).
The nice awareness springing from this being that: IF I grab life by the balls and tug, fully applying myself to the achievement of my maximum potential, that not only will I be happier, more successful, and more fulfilled in the long term due to 1) my own natural and expected sense of accomplishment at having applied myself and achieved all that I am capable of, but ALSO due to 2) the added bonus effect of being a member of that slowly shrinking golden city on the hill, where real men go to cavort with beautiful women and engage in lavish pleasures that are only accessible, and worth it, because they were EARNED. Because those men made the HARD choices to work, be productive, and improve themselves whenever they had he opportunity. Not FOR the reward. In SPITE of it. Because that increasingly small club of high SMV, true men’s men understand that the moment you take your foot of the gas to relax, you’re already going in reverse. I hope that men everywhere are able to assert themselves more fully and live as they were rightfully meant to, such that feminism is no longer a necessary evil as it was basically described (filling the void left by men etc.).
But I sincerely doubt this will take place. Or at least for the next few decades it will get worse before it gets better. In which case... my fellow TRPers we must of course, at a minimum, be exemplary members of that metropolis of true MEN whomst the boys in the fields below can daydream about being while they stagnate, spinning their wheels in the murky mud of both externally and self-imposed ignorance. The city is shrinking, but it is all of our jobs to be its stewards, reaping the increased benefit of being a member of its increasingly exclusive population, but nevertheless and more importantly making our main goal to increase its population as much as possible by encouraging others to join us. But they must work to join us, there are no short cuts.
Because like everything else meaningful in life, citizenship in the city is not simply given... it has to be EARNED.
Well then you haven't read the fuckin sidebar, as with everyone else who liked your comment. Read it.
A few years ago, I was at the bar.
A man walked in. He radiated competence, you knew he had his shit together from one glance at him. He was athletic and muscular, and had that classic, well-put-together country look. He was the kind of guy who looks like he drives a pickup and runs some sort of construction business.
A woman walked in with him. She was a petite brunette with an incredible body, wearing a muted pink dress that looked painted on. She looked half white, half latina. She was fucking stunning. Sex on heels.
I watched them as they interacted. He led her to the bar to get drinks, then led her to the table. She couldn't take her eyes off him, and was laughing the entire time. He oozed a laid-back, no-fucks-given vibe. At their seats, he leaned back and spread out. She leaned towards him, showing off her cleavage as much as possible.
It all hit me in that moment, the reason I couldn't stop looking at this couple. He looked like me. He also looked about the same age as me. He was even the same height as me. It was like staring at a bizarro world version of myself that didn't suck.
That was the wakeup moment for me. It took a while after that for the lesson to sink in, as well as many mistakes and pitfalls, but eventually I discovered TRP and began to piece myself back together.
I realized how deeply ingrained various bullshit beliefs were. I was a full on liberal douchebag. I allied myself with feminism, and only got into relationships with hyper-feminists. The girls I dated were strong-willed, usually bisexual, and walked all over me. Most of them had some "icing on the cake" like a drinking problem, BPD, or a history of sexual abuse from a family member. I basically sought out girls with as many red flags as possible.
With almost every relationship I was in, I'd come to the point where I didn't want to be with them anymore. But I stayed, and eventually they'd all break up with me, and I'd desperately try to get them back. I lived inside my girlfriends' frames. I had no frame of my own. Once I was out of a relationship, I would build a facade of frame and confidence and go out drinking and dating until I convinced another such woman to date me, and the cycle repeated.
So not only was I letting my own masculinity and success wither on the vine, I was investing all my energy into low-quality, hyper-liberal women.
Then I began to look to my past. How my father was more or less an emotionless lump who sat on the couch all night, every night, watching TV and eating ice cream. How my mom controlled every aspect of my life. How she encouraged me towards art and discouraged me from sports. How she praised me for my "nice sweet friends" and discouraged me from hanging out with boys who played lots of sports and were competitive and masculine. How my older brother was a total mama's boy. How he was obese and obsessed with gaming and fantasy books well into high-school and college. How my mom solved all my problems for me, and hovered over my every waking moment to ensure that I had no struggles.
And then it all clicked into place. There was my feminized upbringing, which led to my feminized career at art school. After I found some early career success, I remember getting shamed by my family for making so much money, getting skinny, and so forth. So I quit my job to pursue a "work from home" career, where I went back to all the old destructive patterns that I'd grown up with, cutting myself off from the path of success and financial independence.
And then, at the end of it all, is my role in everything. Yes, I am a product of my environment and upbringing, but I am still responsible for my moment-to-moment, day-to-day decision making. There was no more reason to blame or be angry. The only real choice I had was to burn everything down and rebuild myself through sustained discipline. That was it.
I'd remake myself into a man, and let all the dead weight fucking burn.
Holy fuck. The realization I just came to... Harsh reality.
There comes a day in many men's lives where your suddenly see how your upbringing fucked you up, and it's tough. Just always remember that your mother did those things to you because she (most probably) honestly believed it was the best for you. Have no anger, as you said. I'm glad for you, that you could wade out of the liberal bullshit.
Very well written. Taking ownership is the first step. I hope the best for you
Hard to tell from this post but it seems like your mother is a good woman and if you resent her, you shouldn't. She cared about you enough to try and manage every single aspect of your life as though you were a baby forever. The problem was
A. your dad not offering a counterbalance to this and
B. you never taking charge of your own life despite whatever resistance she may have offered.
Congratulations on your realization and good luck moving forward. Many never reach this point, probably most.
My mom is a good woman. I don't resent her anymore.
How'd you do it? What was the "thing" that made you change.
Are we just talking gym, books, healthy social habits? Or was it something more.
Epic post that shows not only an amazing insight but also the very rare ability to see the world how it truly is.
I have to say, admit really, that I've become somewhat jaded at society. Bordering on Misanthropy if I'm truly honest.
I would also like to point out another of the major failings of the West at the moment. It's the same failings that brought down all the previous great civilisations, from Rome and beyond. It's complacency.
The true nature of Humanity is one of War. You touch on this in your fantastic piece. Humans are tribal by nature. Sport is a proxy for war. Look a the World Cup. See how those "warriors" can effect an entire nation, simply because it's an extension of the tribal nature of humanity.
But obviously, it's only a proxy. And it's only temporary respite from the primal urge to be at War.
Look at the Western countries, without a common Enemy, we have become at each others throats. We are forming our own tribes within the tribe of our countries. Presently this is "liberals" vs "conservatives". Both of those are a proxy, as most people are a mixture of both (if were truly honest).
Think of how people come together during the War. Neighbors helped each other, transgressions were forgotten, they all shared a common enemy in which they can find release from what their genes were screaming at them every single minute of every single day. That of War. Without a common enemy, your neighbour becomes one.
Thankfully it's only my Misanthropy preventing me from rallying the masses to satiate my desire for War. I know how people work (as do you, for sure), and how to get them to do what you want by choosing the correct emotive words (doesn't have to be the truth, does it). (It's the same damn thing you do when picking up chicks, just on a grander scale).
Unfortunately, someone will certainly take up that chalice and do exactly that. It's at that point you will see feminism evaporate like water in the Sahara. Well, you certainly won't get many complaining about the gender balance on the front line, that's for certain.
And unfortunately for the West, we've become fat, complacent, lazy, and lacking all the Male characteristics you identified as lacking in your excellent post. Eventually the 800lb silverback gets old, and doesn't have the same desire to fight as he did when he was younger, and a new upstart will want his seat at the head of the tribe.
We've made ourselves vulnerable and weak by doing everything you said in your post. Nature has previous at rectifying such weakness. Nature doesn't give two shits about feminist study students waving placards around, it doesn't think at all. It just acts.
There won't be any more big wars, the weapons are too strong now. Missiles are too fast to be intercepted, and nukes can generate extinction level events. What is happening is that conflict is being creating in lower levels of society - between sexes, economic wealth, ideologies (both liberal/conservative as well as sports teams, types of music and fashion and so on) - and women make their choice on their perceived winners. Which of course they are too dumb to make an informed decision on. Hence you have millions of teenage girls drooling over manufactured "pop stars", biker trash nailing some rich guys bored wives, entire nations cuckolding themselves ("refugees welcome"), sexual depravities getting "normalized" with cuckservatives endorsing them and so on. In a big war the picture is black and white. Now it's just the shades of black.
Artificial Intelligence, in my opinion, could trigger those, as they're becoming more individual and unpredictable.
Lotta talk about the need for conflict (especially Western white men) but then you say it's Misanthropy preventing you from doing anything about it? Sounds like an excuse cause I used to do the same justification. Every day the world around me becomes more and more bizarre and hostile, finally I decided fuck it and actively call it out where I can, support pushback.
One of the biggest problems is that I'm all alone doing this as most dudes are either White Knight cucks OR afraid to have my back in public even if in private they agree. We need more men "calling for war" and actively supporting each other, not hiding away. Individualism is a meme.
-End Blog Post
This is very key. The dominance heirarchies are benevolent. We don't enjoy having someone be on the bottom of the heirarchy forever. We want them to grow, get better and then meet us at the top.
The hero myth is all about people going from a place of weakness/insecurity, through a huge challenge, to a place of power/leadership/competence.
Another reason why they like fit and tall.
Fucking great post- what you've written here is the essence of the red pill. This shit should be stickied and put at the top of the sidebar. If every 18 year old man read this the world would be a better place. Beautifully written
I don't agree on the bullying part and how its a good way in making out stronger. I'm 21 and back when I was in high school I got bullied for 4 years from everyone for not reaching puberty and being obessed. I use to be cocky and confident when it comes to accomplishments because I always won against my friends. But after high school I lost my self esteem I lost my confidence I was depressed, I saw myself as a big looser who one day was gonna commit suicide. And the only reason I'm red pilled and a man now is because I was emotionally hurt by a girl for being beta, and I was more beta thanks to being bullied and shown my fake place for 4 years of mental and physical abuse in school.
After my breakup I found the red pill and this is where I became a lot better and more confident again. Being bullied is actually psychologically negative in every way possible and everyone should be given a chance or the right way to success unless the choose not to.
Agree. The problem with that part of the OP is that it assigns a false motivation to the bully. When a kid bullies another, his objective is NOT to make the victim stronger so they can contribute to the tribe. What the bully is doing is simply picking an easy target to boost his own perceived value amongst his group. Bullying is just as much of an "achievement simulator" as porn or video games are. They bully the weakling to create a perception of power that they truly don't wield. Instead of achieving a victory (in sports or combat) against a worthy adversary, they choose a weak person that offers no risk of personal failure.
You said it way better than I did this is exactly what I should of said! It's all about gaining popularity and power among other people when you bully the weak. Notice how they say in prison you beat up the "strongest" and quote again "strongest" to gain respect. Beating the weak makes nothing but making you a dick and destroying the person's life making him weaker. Disclaimer: I don't defend on beating up stronger people just making a point how power works!
Two words: Genetic Diversity
If all 10 women bore the children of one man, that would leave the lineage of the entire tribe bottlenecked genetically. Have fun with psychopaths and Downes Syndrome.
Well they're essential for survival.
Today, Feminism is mostly a political movement driven by multi-culturalism, a truly cancerous ideology on the left. Basically every group is oppressed in some way and at the very top you have men as the greatest oppressor, and on top of that white men, the greatest of oppressors. The whole shtick of feminism today is to destroy maleness by eliminating the differences between men and women. Of course this means that you end up having to correct a lot of things in men. You have to eliminate the intense male sex drive by telling men its evil and rapey, you have to eliminate male competitiveness by saying its oppressive, you have to eliminate male strength by saying you like real men, like guys with dad bods. When feminism is done you end up with feminine, useless men because the tools they need to be successful men have been taken away.
Its not a shit test, but a real play for power on a political level. Its honestly only a movement that can be crushed at a political level too. Thats why so many news people are scared of guys like jordan peterson. Guys like him threaten the public perception of feminism and multiculturalism. Their ideology is built on a house of cards and all it takes is a political movement to shine a light on its false claims and the dangerous ideas they are playing with.
Solid post. Life is a power struggle - control or be controlled.
Feminism is different things to different assholes. Maybe to our politicians looking to shepherd the masses into thoughtless compliance, and to our corporate plutocracy looking to redistribute purchasing power in order to hock their useless products to all instead of just half, feminism is an actual power play.
But for women, just ordinary women, it is not. Women do not really want power and never have.
They are incapable of wielding it efficiently and effectively, and they know this. Plus, they fucking hate the direct accountability associated with being in charge of shit. Women don't want power; they want a powerful man. I've said it before and I'll say it again: where no obvious gauntlet exists to test the capability and resolve of men, women will artificially create one. That is what feminism is.
In this age of peaceful, egalitarian prosperity, women are deeply unhappy because men don't have to go through awful shit to prove themselves men anymore. So they're literally creating it. Smashing headlong into the workplace, demanding new, fully-adjustable nonsense rules for contact and casual interaction, as well as disproportionate pay. It's not about eradicating men and running the company themselves; they couldn't give two shits about that. It's about testing these men in bespoke suits with monogrammed pens and cushy leather arm chairs to see if they are really men. In the interpersonal arena, they're creating social schema that can destroy a man's reputation and render him a sexless "un-person" if he betrays or even disputes the progressive, feminine-centric narrative. It's not about doing righteous work or eradicating some mysterious evil working against women. It's about figuring out which men are insecure enough to be knocked-off balance by poor, feeble little girls, so they know whom not to fuck.
Shit. Fucking. Test.
I never felt the need to post anything on here and I’ve been checking in for 2 years but this is by far the best content on this sub. Mods should forever sticky this
This should be pinned to the sidebar. Eloquently written and expressed many of the things that I see but was unable to articulate. For real, excellent breakdown.
Great post but I do have to disagree here.
I wouldn't call Henry Cavill a man of low value. I mean the guy is literally built like...well Superman.
He brought up a good point however. If you're not careful you can be facing a rape charge. I present exhibit A. Rodney Anderson was the lead running back for OU last year. He meets a girl, goes back to her place, has a mutually enjoyable sexual encounter, decides he doesn't want to go any further with it, but still gets hit with a rape charge a few weeks later after the fact. Even after it was found out a friend told police Thornton had said "this would be a 'great thing' for her political career following the Air Force." The friend told police Thornton had said "female-empowered political organizations would love something like this" she gets no charges filed against her. She got away with lying.
So I don't see #MeToo as just going after low value men. Any man can be targeted and have his life changed forever.
Alphas are shit tested as well
Awesome post, very informative and helpful. Definitely saving this
Feminism isn’t about empowering women. It’s about feminizing men. Women are already on top in all sects of life. It’s objective is to turn men into soy boys
Long read, but nevertheless a good post with very insightful talking points. MGTOW and Incel movement are both a result of men becoming weaker and weaker in modern society.
'You can't fire me, I quit!' - That's a great and hilarious summary of MGTOW. They act like your options are to be a heartless alpha dick, a soulless supplicant, or to give up women completely.
Nah, being a confident strong guy who's still nice to people, that's impossible.
This needs to be required reading for all men... thanks for the insight and the knowledge bro.
You've got one thing right - many men, if not all of them, seek this. However, a woman's love, respect and/or loyalty are the least valuable things in this world.
Just like a good high of emotions, it is all fleeting. One second you've got an abundance of it, and the next it is completely gone.
The most valuable thing a man can have is the ability to control as many aspects of his life that can be controlled. Your health, your state of mind, your opportunities, your wealth, your family, etc. Some of these things may come and go, but they are more or less consistently under your influence.
Not entirely. Your health can be ruined by a loss of a limb, your opportunities by a loss of reputation, your wealth by a recession, and your family by death. The only thing you can control - and you had it in your list - is your state of mind, or rather, how you feel about such misfortunes.
I believe you more or less understand my point.
Objectively and logically it holds little value, however our biology in terms of obtaining a high quality mate, pro creation and continuing genes dictates it to be valuable, this is why we instinctively seek it.
If that were true, we'd seek out the safest choice - a woman whose loyalty and love would be the highest, hence, the least attractive females possible.
We instinctively know this is not true. We don't seek out loyal partners. We want loyal partners, but if we're speaking purely in biological terms, we want the fittest mate. The fittest mate for men are the attractive females. Big breasts, big asses, wide hips, desirable faces, slender, etc.
Of course we want high quality mates, but it's not an innate drive in men. It is something that we as men form as a defensive mechanism over time so that we don't get burned when we are trying to start families.
Other than that, I'm gonna fuck me the hottest women I can find.
We agree entirely on the core concept. Although I read "love, respect and loyalty"(albeit poorly worded in my opinion) in the context of women(as a gender) wanting to select us(fuck us). Like the way fangirls love and respect Justin Bieber and more likely than not want to have his babies.
And not necessarily that we want a woman(as an individual) who loves,respects and is loyal.
Yeah I see what you're saying and if that is how that was intended, then I would agree with you. But from what I read, I am of the opinion that OP was looking at those qualities as a reflection of a woman's character and not that of her desire.
Women are horrendously fickle. It's one of nature's cruelest jokes. It's been years since I realized it for the first time, and it still makes my stomach turn. Time, effort, prior investment, material gifts; the value of these things to a woman is based entirely upon her attraction to the man giving them, within whatever singular moment she is receiving them. If a man is performing up to whatever standard she sets, they are gifts from God. If he is failing, they are needy, stifling, suffocating, and unnecessary. The turning of that tide can be so quick and devastating that it seems almost cosmically unfair.
But hey, at least I've never had some dude cum in my butt and then kick me out with smeared makeup and no cab fare the next morning. Just remember, their problems aren't our problems, just like our problems aren't their problems.
It's a zero-sum game. Play on.
Is not zero-sum. You can shift from short-term to long-term interactions, improve yourself in a way that benefits your partner. zero-sum thinking is as pernicious as feminism.
I'm glad someone brought it up. As a matter of objective fact, it is not a zero-sum game.
But the way women view it, it absolutely is. The definition of a non-zero-sum game is one in which a resource exchange creates value that is greater than the sum of its parts. But beyond the moment in which she is receiving it, the value of that excess good you created together is subject to dive-bomb the moment she perceives your value to have diminished or you to be a less-than-ideal partner. Suddenly, those intensely fulfilling years she spent living in your apartment, going out on dates with you, having expenses paid, having a man take accountability off her shoulders, are all of the sudden rationalized post-hoc as years of entrapment and oppression.
Briffault's fucking law. The sum created by any game or resource exchange is effectively zero when it means little or nothing to her beyond the month/week/day/moment in which it was created.
This is a very long winded way to rationalize not taking a stake in trying to counter the feminist cult. All that is required to attract women as a Male is to be alpha with money and reasonable in appearance or good looking. If you do this you can openly espouse your anti-feminist positions and the only one offended will be feminists. But they will still consider sleeping with you because you aren't being a weak little pussy
This is the tldr of the whole post lmao
OPs point, which is valid IMO, is that the weak cannot rise up and demand respect without changing themselves. I agree that a ton of anti-feminists have not done enough to rise up the dominance hierarchy to a respectable position. Screaming from the bottom does not topple anything.
He’s saying feminism is a symptom of our own failings not the cause. The rise of “feminism” is just a label for what op is saying is big compliance test. The word feminism has been usurped by society for this test
It well could be that feminism is a symptom of our own failings, but to state that we should not bother to be anti-feminist given the cancerous nature of this cult is just more failing.
The reason this feminist movement has so much power is because so many males have followed "blindly" in support of whatever position was put out there by feminist. This in spite of the fact that the original aims of feminism were met 40 years ago, and the work is done. Now it is a privilege movement which is hurting both men and women. Telling women they should strive for that they clearly don't want, and men that they are at fault for women not meeting an equality of result that for the most part they don't want either. Sexual dimorphism is real and not a social construct.
Anyone espousing a position that we should not counter this is part of the problem. They are part of the cancer.
Finally my shit test for equality if that is what we want. It will be the day that the garbage truck pulls up to my house and two women jump off the back to load unload my cans. It will be the day I see the women pouring hot tar on a road in 100 degree heat, or getting shot to fuck on the battle field in the thousands. I won't hold my breath.
Equality is not desired by either sex. It never will be. Feminists are whinny lying bitches that are in search of victim status for all women at the expense of everyone else and should be opposed at every turn. It is a movement based on fake statistics over imaginary problems to the detriment of all. It is powerful and real. Not opposing it as an anti-feminist is foolish and weak. Any man not doing so is a Beta-cuck and can look forward to a crappy sex life. Why, because even a feminist doesn't want to fuck a feminist.
This pile of whiny bullshit makes me sick. Movements based on hate don't make the world better, they make it worse. It's as simple as that.
Good people want to get better, not just burn things. To build, not just destroy. A movement defined by what it opposes, what it hates, who it blames, is a weak victim movement. Just like feminism. Congrats, dude, you've shown yourself to be an "equal" to women in invoking a victim frame.
very succinct - that's pretty much it !
I think OP also repeats himself too many times, and it discredits him.
Fantastic, insightful post. I'd subscribe if there was such an option.
Insecure women and women with bad/poor/absent father figures play stupid power games. It is partly to test and find out where they fit in the given power hierarchy of a relationship or of a group and to see, via the reaction of others whether they can climb up the hierarchy.
But, given that these women are insecure and damaged/broken to begin with, they are never secure of their place in the hierarchy. So the power games and testing never stops; even though they are established in their position. If anything, others can eventually tire of them, they get ostracised within the group and are either kicked out, removed or demoted further down the hierarchy, kicking and screaming all the way.
These type of women really are pathetic, miserable, vile creatures.
While this has some interesting points, the problem with this perspective is that it accurately observes the broader state of human nature and the interaction of most people within a dominance hierarchy, and totally misses that if it were to objectively describe the dominance hierarchy in question to an alien observer starting from scratch, the most charitable thing that could be said about it is that it is outdated. The least would be that the author peaked in high school and hasn't really ever figured out the nature of what comes next.
Shoulder checking nerds because they're not doing their part to protect the tribe? Some of these same nerds that "live in their heads" are the ones that go on to change the very nature of the world, rapidly accelerating it even further from when the "not doing their part to protect the tribe" narrative was even tangentially relevant. War is obsolete now, primitive chest beating is a good way to end up in prison, and living in your head and disregarding the majority of what most valueless humans consider to be important, like how far and fast you can run with a ball, is a provably successful strategy for climbing the meta dominance hierarchy that dominates all other dominance hierarchies; who generates and controls the most wealth. And most importantly of all this trend is accelerating. The "nerds" are not just dominating, they are making the normies less and less relevant with every passing year. Circumventing the entire apparatus of social control on the economy proper and rapidly replacing it with a new economy that responds only to the reins they hold whilst they continue to hone their abilities to manipulate those reins.
Just because humans want you to behave a certain way, or interpret your refusal to behave that way in a certain fashion, does not mean you are obligated to do it.
You can't fire me, I quit, and I'll replace you instead is a perfectly legitimate response to being judged based on standards that are several thousand years out of date and have no place in a modern world with weapons of mass destruction, firearms, artificial intelligence and an advanced industrial society dominated by the accelerating incomprehensibility to regular useless meat puppets of ordinary every day life within this reality. And this does not just apply to women, it applies to every single facet of modern human existence.
If you think you can get by in this modern world in the meta dominance hierarchy with only a nice body, some ability to free associate and engage in small talk and social signalling, coupled with an (frankly unjustified in context) unshakeable faith in the objective value of your garden variety contribution, you're going to have a bad time. This is still low value. It's just not as low value as some others.
The above should not be taken as a recommendation on some of the things the author rightfully calls out like unproductive escapism and being dishonest with oneself about the nature of one's own value. This cannot be improved unless it is accurately measured to begin with, and in this sense the author is right on.
"We make men without chests and expect from them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst" ― C.S. Lewis
Feminism is cancer.
Men need to be politically active to combat theses forces now before they chip away at everything and you get wrapped up in a false rape accusation.
I’m not sure if being politically active is even necessary. If every man just made the simple decision to disregard feminism, then it would fade from existence.
You disregard cancer it will kill you.
Pretending that men aren’t slowly becoming second class citizens doesn’t make you enlightened, it makes you more susceptible to getting MeToo’d
But what about muh individualism?
Why should we even worry about the fact that virtually all of these "feminist" movements stem from socially engineered schemes, when we can ignore that fact and pretend they are purely products of human nature?
"My fellow redpilled men, we shouldn't waste our time worrying about the misanthropic collective culture we live in."
"We should just accept that misanthropic culture and hyper focus on invidualist efforts."
Ok...so how is feminism like cancer, exactly? You’re just spitting out a meme dude—you’re not actually thinking about this critically anymore.
Unlike cancer, we actually do know what causes feminism. And we also have a cure for it—it’s called TRP & becoming a powerful man.
Cancer = media cartels, international banksters, alongside compliant NGO'S and intelligence groups
Curing cancer means collectively rising up against those forces
I dunno, man. If you're an awesome male specimen, cordial and confident and charming and consistently demonstrating a lack of neediness, then you don't have to live your life in fear of that. I once hooked up with some girl at a bar we both frequented in a small city I used to live in. Turns out she had a boyfriend I didn't know about. She tried to cover her infidelity by claiming that I sexually forced myself on her, and the entire community laughed at her and stood up for me. Be awesome, and let your reputation precede you. Among the things that feminist women were saying in my defense: "Odins-left-eye is all about being admired; he'd never stoop to chasing," and "Please, we all saw how you were all over him."
Guys who get "false rape accusations" fall into two categories: weirdos like that blonde college kid that dragged that drunk girl behind a dumpster, and alphas who brush it off because it doesn't even stick.
I brushed it off and everybody laughed at her. Then she sued me. Then I won, but the whole ordeal decreased my SMV to the point that my LTR actually dumped me and I'm currently unfuckable by any women in this small community.
And if I start dating someone, the feminist brigade will msg her letting her known I'm a "mysogynist that sue poor girls" good luck if it happens to you.
Men aren't supposed to be reared into men or alphas, they are supposed to shape themselves through achieving goals.
That's a symbolic solution, borderline mental masturbation. Say you send a 12yo into the wood to kill a wolf with a sharp stick. He manages to do so, so now what? - he's instantly the top dog able to wage war with other tribes, he instantly starts being treated like the seasoned hunter who managed to feed the tribe for the last decade? He instantly knows how to be a man b/c he did something outside his comfort zone once?
Rite-of-passage is a magic pill, not long term solution.
No, they don't. They need discipline and commitment, not a one time trophy.
WTF are you talking about. Say we round up the 500 kids born PER YEAR (!!!) to 700 and a year to 350 days. IOW Genghis Khan had a 2 children BORN per day for a year.
TRP is anything but nihilistic. Might be pessimistic, to a degree, but not nihilistic. You mistook our anger phase newbies ("must blame women for everything") for MGTOW subreddit.
EDIT: somehow this part dissapeared:
Depends on circumstances of course, but this mostly works on hottest girls. Generally speaking, if you call me a cunt (shit test) and I respond with same thing (counter test "no you're a cunt") it changes nothing, besides showing that I'm reacting to you. The best way to respond to shit tests is to show that it doesn't bother you. To do that you ignore the challenge, you treat it as non existent, as non-challenge, as a joke. Thus you either ignore it or you A&A to show you don't even treat this as something that can possibly phase you.
She's doing it to increase HER comfort. In the context of what you wrote, she does that at the cost of her attraction to you.
Enjoy the decline sounds rather nihilistic to me.
It does, fortunately it's not required to participate in TRP.
You aren't in decline. The old world is in decline. Stop identifying yourself as how you picture yourself in it.
This is where the post completely shits the bed.
As men we have two choices:
A) take the bluepill--relegate ourselves to our one special princess, raise a family, put up with measured doses of female bullshit and play the game. Results will be better if done so with some backbone, frame and leadership, but ultimately we surrender ourselves to the system and in return the system defends out prerogatives (status, sexual access, some assurances of paternity, etc).
B) take the redpill--a systemic and systematic rejections of the bluebell system. We defend out own prerogatives, but it is a lot of water to carry. A lot of our energies will be spent just keeping our status, instead of building empires, but for hard men life will go as desired.
Here's the problem with OP: the bluepill system does not exist any more.. It does not defend the male prerogatives--it only ensures toe benefits to the female.
How can it have any value when it can't give you anything? It can't give you resources. It won't give you any of the former bluebell benefits. It's a giant anchor around your leg and you are about to get dumped in the ocean.
I think OP (and JBP) thinks that it's valuable b/c he and other men desire it. IOW "I want that, thus it must hold some innate value otherwise I wouldn't want that and b/c I do want that, the innate value must be true."
The previous system was BP tradcon, the current one is BP gynocentrism.
Oh, I think you nailed it there. Though as Rian would point out, it isn't fungible so there is nothing to gained from it.
I know I'm going to sound like an idiot here, but what did I mean by that?
If you can't trade it either in full or in measure, it has no value--and that applies to human interactions, the SMP AND even human emotion. It was quite astute of you. (This was a thread some three or four months back, but I can't remember which one.)
oh yeah, I remember the one.
I called it supermarket masculinity, since it's been automated to the point where it's a commodity.
today I learned crack has innate value, because those who want it, want it badly
Which is both true and absurd.
CAN is the word. Even if you round it down to 50. That means a man can father 50 children a year while a woman still can give birth to one (or 2,3 or 4 ie in case of rare occurrences)
You make a lot of good points but fail to understand what OP is trying to show the reader with this information.
Indeed. I kneejerked on something that should be obvious.
Your alarm went off because this post echos of Petersonism. It's conservative at it's core. Don't worry about the degeneracy we can fix it with a few Band-Aids! Nevermind that we're only prolonging the matrix.
This only means we need to up our game, both the ideas and the writing skill b/c if JBP is going to become the mainstream icon of m-f TRP this forum will turn into a place for BPs who disdain feminists as opposed to BPs who support them.
And while we're at it, last few months of TRP seem to be tracing 2 converging trends MGTOW and JBP. Might be my own confirmation bias, but might as well be true.
We had a pretty big disagreement in the past however on this point we are 100% in alignment. If two dudes who see things differently agree then there's probably truth there.
Well Peterson said the word "hypergamy" on Joe Rogan and I guess the google searches lead them here. Also the red man group had Turd FLinging monkey on and the panel didn't want to lead him to suicide so they didn't call him insane so I guess the MGTOW decided they can make friends here.
He fucks a pillow. There is no seat at the table for him.
Hey, that pillow costs as much as a mid sized sedan and has received many expensive gifts, so watch your mouth!
The mere fact that this guy used the word compliance tests to describe giving up your manhood in return for a girlfriend is the epitome of irony esp. when the same person is talking about being made a man 2 paragraphs ago. Surprised to see your comment on controversial when it is indeed spot on
That's not how a rite of passage works. The rite of passage is a means to make a younger male become the kind of person that becomes a great man. It shows the boy that he has what it takes to become a man. It's a clear example for him in his mind of a time when he acted like a grown up. He can always come back to it and draw on this valuable experience. Now that he's a man on paper in the village, he can finally start acting like one. Not a top dog yet, but he can make his way there. It's a strong psychological cue that makes him more into the kind of person interested in becoming a top dog. With the available strong male models, this kid can now mimic the way they behave and become strong too. Because he's one of the men now, it is expected of him to act like one and the men in the group will most likely punish him for deviations. It'll be a tough time for the kid, but he'll make it through and become one of them.
So no, he's not the top dog right away. He's not a seasoned hunter. He's not instantly a man. But other men are going to treat him like he is and expect him to be like that. Being great will be expected. And he'll become one eventually.
Translate that all into the instant gratification magic pill society we have now and you'll see what was my point, it's a participation trophy, nothing more.
If you have discipline and commitment you don't need anything to draw on from b/c you have more and more reference experiences coming from putting the work in.
The difference in the past was that you are treated as a man after the rite of passage. Where's that treatment when you win your magic participation trophies nowadays? Nowhere.
You're right about discipline and commitment. True. It's not an either/or situation, is it? You could have both discipline and commitment, and rites of passage.
It is said that every journey starts wit the first step. As symbolic as it is, how much is a step compared to running a marathon?
This is why I read the comments before the post. All arguments seem great until questioned
Don't do that. Form your own opinion first, then compare it with opinions of others. If the OP is "wrong" and you start with the commenters pointing out "why is it wrong" you are robbing yourself from the opportunity to exercise your thinking.
Also, if you really don’t look like an alpha male (short, fat, skinny, feminine face, etc), get your T levels tested. TRT might be a great option for you.
You gotta be prepared do to whatever it takes.
> The nihilistic attitude in this sub is a dead-end. It's weakness. It's an avoidance of responsibility. You're a node that's within a network, and so everything you do ripples out and effects the world in some way. You're going to meet a thousand people in your life, and they're each going to meet a thousand people.
Not really no. Evolution is always a trade-off. Here the part you conveniently discard is genetic diversity. If only 1 male breeds, then you gene pool will get smaller and smaller which can lead to inbreeding or make the whole population susceptible to a specific pathogen.
In fact studies show that women also select their mates based on smell and the more different the immune system is from their own, the better.
Hence there is a balance needed how many men breed. Too few and the tribe will sooner or later die out, too many and the same happens. And what is best can change with time / the environment.
Hardcore Feminists should be treated like Lepers, except without any compassion or understanding.
Meanwhile depressed, pissing in bottles playing league of legends 5'8 me had 40 notches
Wow. Interesting perspective. I don’t agree with everything, but the main message rings true. I started listing the compliance tests my last woman threw at me. With no effort, I cracked 20. With a little more effort, I could double that number. She was all over my life, extracting compliance. I thought, that’s what I had to do to make it work. That’s what I was taught, happy wife, happy life. All it did was prove to her that I was a low value man that she disrespected and felt contempt for.
Inadvertently, at the start of 2018, I started passing compliance tests. I did a few at first, like getting up at 5am to hit the gym, like doing my stuff on the weekends such as skiing. I went back to my men’s team, a group she called a bunch of losers (they weren’t).
She exploded and ratcheted up the compliance tests. I still didn’t know what I was doing, but I realize now that I was starting to pass her compliance tests. I tell you this, if you ever decide to switch from failing to passing compliance tests, don’t think she’ll roll over and watch. She might go nuclear. Mine did.
She ended up breaking up with me, which it turns out was another compliance test. I stopped paying anything for her, and she demanded I put her back on my work benefits, pay her cable, etc to prove that I still loved her.
It’s a tough road to take a relationship where you’ve been failing compliance tests and start passing them. Your woman is probably going to resist. You’ll need a strong spine to hold to it, and my end up losing her. I did.
This posting put a number of things into perspective for me. I know what I need to do next time. To start, watch for and pass compliance tests. The ‘make a relationship work’ meme is stacked against you. Hold your terms, frame and interests.
Great post man. I take issue with your use and implication of the word "evolution".
Evolution is the process by which a species is shaped as genes are passed on over long periods of time.
When 50 black moths and 50 white moths are in an environment that is mostly black, birds will pick off the white moths leaving the black moths more opportunity to breed. Eventually there will be very few white moths and tons of black moths in the area. The moths didn't choose to fuck only black moths. They happened to be the fittest for that environment (didn't die before mating) and therefore were able to pass on their genes.
When you find a bunch of spotted grey moths that match the tree bark in a certain area, they slowly, over a long period of time become the only moths to live long enough to reproduce because they happened to be set up for THAT environment. They would all die in the black moth environment. Survival of the fittest.
It wasn't a conscious choice. Those men that passed genes on were *the fittest at some point. Maybe that meant they had food to share, maybe they were the alpha leader of the tribe, maybe they overpowered women and raped them.
They weren't "allowed" necessarily.
"Society" wasn't deciding the best way to propagate the species. It was just happening.
From a purely evolutionary perspective genetic variation is the best way to keep the species moving forward because like always evolutionary pressures will wipe out those who aren't resistant to certain viruses, those who aren't the most suitable to certain environments, those who are not "the fittest". It's ruthless. We could go into an ice age and the basement dwelling fatties might be the fittest for the cold new world. That's evolution.
If all women only reproduced with the "top" male in the social hierarchy, it would be counter-productive for the species. That has no bearing on what she's attracted to. Men balance that out by pushing for variation and pushing for sex in general.
Again this is not how evolution works. It's not a decision, it's a result... of bottleneck filters and randomness and "survival".
Men or boys acting that way is entirely them trying to rise up or cement their place in the dominance hierarchy.
The dominance hierarchy is a social pressure that effects the process of evolution. The differing results between point A and point B in time IS evolution.
Men enjoy climbing the dominance hierarchy. If evolution MADE men enjoy something there wouldn't be men around who didn't enjoy it.
Ok. Let's do it.
As much as women "select", you cannot negotiate attraction. Women are selfish. They aren't selecting anything for the betterment of the future of society. They will lock beta men down with a child knowing full well that they have a stronger desire to fuck a different man. They go against their biological programming to secure their own position in the world.
All of the rape that happened over the last 100,000 years is another evolutionary perspective you haven't accounted for.
Natural selection makes this seem confusing. It's not a selection process. The gods don't smile at some and cast out others. Survival(propagation of genes) of the fittest(one who successfully mates before death of any kind) explains the evolutionary perspective better in a conotative tone.
Evolution is the result of environmental pressures on a species over a very long period of time. Randomness in the selecting tool, tornadoes, plagues, famine, etc and randomness on the genetic level in the form of a lucky mutation that makes your skin more or less prone to developing cancer at a particular coordinate on the globe.
Your ideas stand up without invoking the "E" word as far as I'm concerned. They might even change and get stronger with the correct purely evolutional perspective.
Great post again man.
Saved. Feminism is a byproduct of weak men
Extremely valuable information, thank you
I see now that I bent the knee too many times. I didn’t understand. It wasn’t because I was weak. I was ignorant. Right now I have a bad FU attitude for women and their ways. I feel burned. TRP is helping me recalibrate. I find it a very workable template to use to Move forward.
I agree with the message of the post for the most part, but disagree with the idea that making ideological arguments somehow makes you a low value man.
Feminism isn't going to go away just because you ignore it and lead a good life. There's an army of zombies out there who will continue to push its agenda. The only way to combat ideology is with better ideology.
The people you deride for wasting their time are doing a tremendous job of turning the tide, hence feminism is reaching all time lows in popularity.
This is probably a huge noob question but what is the reason this sub tends to disagree with feminism as a whole? Obviously the whole MeToo movement has gone way too far but from my understanding it started as women wanting equal rights to vote, have a job, and have access to educational programs. When I read these posts, I assume they are talking about what I thought was radical feminist? Or do most people on the RP not want women holding jobs of their own? Because they feel as men they should be the sole provider?
First off don't take everything you see here for granted, there's some big doodoo posts that you should ignore. Evaluate their accuracy yourself and don't just believe them.
That being said, this is about modern feminism(2000s+ arguably)
Feminism hasn't been about equality since the first wave.
Feminism wasn't even about equality in the first wave.
Somebody listens to Peterson. Once I heard dominance hierarchy my little alarm went off.
There were like 10 other clues too
likely the most valuable post I've read on Reddit so far. Thank you OP for the insight and effort.
Woa... this is a some wizard-level TRP shit! A+ post buddy.
I see only one problem with this post. A compliance test (aka a shit test) is a test of a man's frame and not the same as a comfort test, which is test to she if she is good enough for you. Other than that, this post is pure gold.
I stopped reading at "men give women value" - nah, my education, income and physical health gives me value. Fuck outta here with that bullshit.
By far the best article i have read.i have failed all the comfort test in the past.but now after reading the whole thing i realize the failures i had in the past.
Some of the mental gymnastics in this post are troublesome bordering scary. Not all high school boys are bullies. I never saw high school bullies when I was in school. Junior high was different as hormones are starting. Psychologically, bullies are started in the home. And it’s projection of their home life.
What you’ve taken pages and pages to write boils down to “women are attracted to confident men.”
It's just a specific example tho. Most men who are in groups do banter or "give each other a hard time".
A large majority of men have always been weak. It's just lately you can hear about them on the internet. Before internet weaklings just stayed home and no one cared about them
>Let's say you're an alpha male in high-school, and you see a dweeb walking down the corridor. You get a sudden urge to shoulder-check the dweeb and shove him into the locker. Why do you get this urge, and why do you laugh with your friends whilst doing it? Why do adolescent boys enjoy such behaviours? Well, it makes sense from an evolutionary perspective.
Stopped reading here (partially because it's 01:31AM here), but this is rather a psychological aspect where the bully in this case needs to get his high by dominating a weaker male. aka the toughest boys picking the biggest losers to make themselves feel better.
I stopped taking this evolution shit seriously because it explains very little. It's only about how nature goes about an equilibrium between one extreme and the other.
This post was very insightful but this was a blind spot in OP's argument for me too.
I've dealt with men I probably view on some subconscious level as "weaker" or less far along as me, but I've never had the urge to bully someone I perceive as being weaker, less popular than me just to get a rush.
Why does it make the bully high to dominate the weaker male?
You put all the thoughts in my head into words.
You will like JBP, OP's post is basically just repeating Jordan's speeches.
Might go listen to him. Seems like good motivation for when you're feeling down. This post is like a trampoline catching me from returning to my old ways
Eat.
Wow. I had no idea they had a talk together.
I'm gonna replay the shit out of this.
Eat a bit more.
Then clear your plate.
And here's some desert, you hungry bastard.
I come to this sub for my daily dose red pill. This post though was like gulping an year's worth of packets. Damn.
A woman won't have time for feminism if she has a hard dick chasing her around at night
lmao best line I've read in a while
Also, I rarely post here, but I needed to say this is one of (if not) the best post I've read here.
Thanks OP.
This post is so black and white, to talk about tribes is to take data and randomize it, civilization is a measurable structure, tribes are randomized pockets that literally are like playing slots . There would be as many constants as there are tribes,
What you think you understand about, specifically, are aggressive tribes with dictatorships that turned into empires.
You would need to understand a neural network before you could even start to grasp what examples work or don’t.
And further, I play video games a lot, every girl I met or dated would much rather be doing me “favors” while I play games.
When I go out, I’d rather talk to the “stragglers” or “weak links” or “Napoleon” syndrome guys while I tell the alphas who are convinced they are the leader to go meet girls for us and while I have intellectual conversations with guys who really understand the struggle of life, the “alphas” will introduce their “catch(s)” and then the women decide to come hang out with us, because we are a complex diversified group.
The gray area has too much information. Black and white is the basics and the rest just connects when the thoughts come.
That’s lazy, that’s the most obvious sign of a beta
Beware of the feminist movement, they can bring your social status down and make you unfuckable no matter how alpha you think you are. I got attacked online by some feminists that I never saw in my life. Those women are incredibly vengeful and will hold a grudge against you for years, for the slightly of offenses. As a consequence they attacked my LTR continuously and she dumped me shortly after one of those attacks. My status (at least in their eyes) was very low, and my LTR sensed this and dumped me immediately, because women want to fuck men that other women also want.
I failed the feminists shit test while I though I was all alpha. Didn't gave a fuck about those stupid women, until they harassed my LTR and every girl that's interested in me.
If you are shit in the eyes of feminists, you are also shit in the eyes of non-feminist women, the end result is that your SMV decreases a lot.
I am very curious as to how this all went down. How did some online strange wildebeests ruin your physical relationship? What drove it to that point?
Basically it went like this: Dated a crazy BPD girl, didn't work out and then I started dating my LTR. BPD girl goes crazy when she found about my LTR and proceeds to #metoo me (actually I didn't even kissed her) saying that I'm an abuser and mysoginyst. I sued her and she lost. All was fine.
Then her feminist friends start to harass me at my job, that didn't worked so they harrased my LTR, shaming her in online forums the they shared because she's dating me. At this point she was quite fed up of those attacks, she was visible pissed of with them but also with the whole situation. I dismissed all this laughing and didn't gave any importance.
Next day we had a small fight over nothing and it was over. She couldn't take it. She blocked me on all social networks and never saw her again.
Very interesting and informative read. Should post this in all those whacky bluepill subs like 2x
Bar none the best post I've ever read on Reddit. Thank you.
Thank you for taking the time to type all this, amazing job.
This post is a blitzkrieg of truth bombs.
I agree with what you saying but the way the system is set up is that only a few men get the goods in life while the majority suffers, that’s naturally going to cause a large group of men having tension with other men
This is not a thread I want But it is a thread that I need. Thanx
Lol, you took so many of Jordan Peterson's exact expressions I had to laugh
Each point is cohesively brought together. The one thing that resonated to me the most was men pointing out fallacy’s in society and being unruly slaves.
I believe we need these men even though they end up being martyrs. Most of the time, their tactic of publicly voicing opinions may end up being outcasted (being Metoo’ed or another form of allegations). Hopefully, it’ll lead to men understanding how to provide change in a more covert way with greater efficiency.
Brilliant. Takeaway for me: find examples of commanding respect.
I would also comment that trp gets men doing the right thing even if it is for the wrong reasons. The offer of sex gets them on the train and that may well be a good thing right now.
In many ways it's the equivalent of 40 virgin's in heaven for a martyr, just less of a lie.
Still, what we really need is the true message and that's what we just got. I thank you.
For the bullying parts. Isn't there also other reasons?
Which is that an individual was bullied and therefore results in them being a bully themselves due to lack of self confidence and requires demoralising others to gain that self esteem back. The feeling of power over others.
I see alot of encouragement toward bullying. It's not as glorious as you make it out to be, fighting back is most often not a possibility.
How are you going to demonstrate your worth when 4 people are pummeling you on the ground?
How are you going to gain respect when you get shanked after school for making someone look bad?
The whole part about bullying was absolutely incorrect and only serves to help those that bully, not those who get bullied. Anyone who feels they need to display their value by shitting on weak people are disgusting p.o.s, and any girl you get by doing so is worth the stds you get.
Weak.
I know that the idea that feminism is a shit test we're failing is a popular one. So fuck the people that disagree: it's not. And here I'm going to tell you why it's not.
I did not vote for the changes.
Feminist Education.
I did not choose the feminization of education. I did not choose to reduce gym and free time from school. I did not choose to change the job of teacher from a prestigious university educated job with a good salary to a pennygrubbing pencil pusher job with a poor salary. I did not choose to put emphasis on group work and stories even in math and I did not choose to eliminate competitiveness from classrooms in favor of cooperativeness. And then when boys get bored and get put on stimulants for somehow being defective (whereas when girls were underperforming it was the education method itself that was at fault), I didn't and wouldn't have chosen that either.
This environment was chosen for me by the previous generation.
Feminist Social Benefits
I did not fail a test in allowing celebration of single mothers and removing the social stigma that they face, causing an ever bigger increase in deadbeat kids. I didn't flinch causing single mothers receive more money if they get more kids, that's not a test I failed. I wasn't silent when divorce was promoted through legislature and I wasn't complicit when they were shaped to financially rape the men who were getting divorced from, I wasn't there yet. I was a kid.
I can go on. I can talk about contraception for only one gender, higher education of women being a waste of resources, reproductive rights, sex discrimination against men in the workplace and on and on and on.
I am not the one who failed these tests anymore than that modern day germans are responsible for the shitty self-hating education they got. Those are the sins of the father. The legacy passed down to us. And if there's one thing important with responsibility is that it's levelled at the right place. The boomer generation was responsible for that and they failed the test deeply. You can hear it when you listen to George Carlin, listening how wonderful and peaceful women are, how much better they are than men, or basically any art or media from that time era. They failed the test and our societies are weaker, more feminised for it.
Clawing a way out
It is our duty to future generations to claw a way out of this; to not fail the tests our fathers failed (collectively). To speak truth about feminism in a way that is effective. Not to rage mindlessly about it, but like a scalpel cut off the right pieces when possible, redpill others, to not back down.
I don't believe in original sin; most people don't know they're even facing a test and if you're educated in the west chances are you've been educated to think you're succeeding the test when you give women what they demand. It's why the fight between bluepill and redpill has such a chasm and little room for ground in between to live; they're incompatible ideas. I don't believe it's my fault or your fault that we got to this decline.
It will be your fault or my fault if we choose to let it continue.
I doubt we can fully reverse the damage done in our lifetime; it's quicker to destroy something than to build it. It's up to us to rebuild and to create a new legacy, because we're the ones who see the tests our father's failed.
It's true that without men acting right women won't act right, but it's not just a superficial case by case basis that we fix this; we have to fix it in government, in law, in education, in media. That is not a short haul; it's a lifework of civic duty.
We have the choice to take responsibility to fix what our fathers destroyed or let get destroyed or tried and failed to protect, depending on your own father's role. We can choose to put a stake in the ground and take the responsibility and fight for it, or we can accept the way we were educated and participate in its decline.
Haven't had a post this good in a long while. Thanks for the write up.
This is the most concise yet encapsulating post about women, feminism, and the value of men that i have ever read on here or any other site.
Bravo, best post in a long time. This is sidebar worthy.
Too bad it is followed by so many idiotic comments.
So, according to you, being a woman gives you value immediately. OK. This retarded mindset is what causes women to believe they are entitled to any man they want.
"You have to prove yourself"- wtf classic beta mindset
I think this is where monk mode and, atleast in the beginning, MGTOW comes in. I would be careful though, you seem to speak from experience and the kind of man you speak of requires a careful balance. Without that mindset it’s easy for~~ anyone to~~ simps/soyboys/cucks/feminists/hamsters to misinterpret what you wrote and just shift women’s problems as inherent defects in men, while at the same time doing nothing to help men.
So in short their whole psychology is built for manipulation. They only go after men who have power, money, etc. to give them and begin tests to see when those benefits are gone. Once you've been sucked dry it's time to move on to the next guy. And hypergamy allows them to do this multiple-fold? Did I get that right?
Its my first year teaching high school. Thinking of forming a young men's club and incorporating many of Red Pill theories in a PC manner. This is good stuff. Young men need to know this stuff.
I don't really like this talk. The thought that I'm part of some hierarchy is an insult to me. Miss me with that cavemen shit.
You're in the wrong sub then. Social hierarchies always exist, whether you like it or not. You can play the Sigma game and refuse to take a place in the hierarchy, but the hierarchy still exists.
Plenty of high-powered, good looking men with strong careers and social lives still sexually assault women, and women still don’t like it. It’s not about who the man is: it’s about the fact that it is unwanted and violating in and of itself.
Is the argument here intended to be that no man who is actually a “high-value man” would ever sexually assault or rape a woman? Or is the argument that the woman would like it coming from a “high-value man”? Because the latter is just not correct, by any stretch of the imagination.
EDIT:
Additionally, since time immemorial, women have been told who to marry. They have not chosen. It’s only in very, very recent years that women have had the right to make their own decisions, particularly in regard to who they date/marry/mate with. In some cultures, women still don’t get to choose. On what are you basing your claim that women have been the ones who select mates? This wasn’t true in most hunter-gathered societies and it certainly hasn’t been true throughout most of history.
I think OP is referring to western society and not some local pakistani province
Try all of European society, or basically all society outside of the west. Western society — the United States — has existed for relatively little time.
Again, I think OP is referring to western society. And european society is very diverse
Additionally, “western culture” is defined as “western lifestyle or European civilization” and is used very broadly to refer to “heritage of social norms, ethical values, traditional customs, beliefs, political systems, special artifacts, and technologies that have some origin or association with Europe.”
We are a western society, yes, but because we COME FROM EUROPE and that’s where we get all of the things on which we base society. Including social norms. Which includes things like marrying your daughters off to the people you see fit.
He uses hunter-gatherer society as a basis. In those societies, women were told who to married or were conquered or given away.
What the fuck I'm reading?
Outside royalty, (that weren't true marriages but alliances) It's true that in the past, and in some remote rural asian/russian towns, Marriages were arranged, but:
1) The man also don't get to choose 2) Arranged marriages have a lower rate of divorce than regular marriages.
Lots of Jordan Peterson here. Great post!
"Teh feminists will chill if we just keep the pimp hand strong"
No, no they won't.
Loyalty and respect are masculine concepts. A woman is only capable of love towards herself and her own children. AWALT.
A lot of JPB here... otherwise good read
Took me 40 minutes to read it but it was worth every second.
I would point out that I've found a way to be me in the metoo world. It's totally possible to check in with a woman, even verbally, and still be confident and alpha as fuck. I'll hold eye contact for a minute, bring her hand to my face, feel if there's any tension in her body, and if it feels right, I'll bite one of her fingers. If she smiles, I'll put a hand on her knee and ask "You like this?" and I'll just hold frame and stare at her until I get a "yes." Then it's off to the races.
Great post but I think this is overdoing it and missing one important aspect.
Feminism isnt entirely bad, in fact points about men not being able to express their emotions in this culture is important for men who could eventually become more alpha like.
Truth is alpha men will never have anything to fear. The alpha male like female stems at its original core from a kind of primal zen. This is acceptance of death, this is abundance mentality. Of all my red pill efforts I never had more success than with open acceptance and truth is often feminist make great points. Its just like in all camps there will be the ones who dont get it.
Beta isnt less, alpha isnt more, they are just different types of perspectives both subject to men with ego related issues. At a certain point an alpha male wouldnt care if the whole world was run by women, he'd still be in frame. It is intuitive.
Its backwards to find a solution to "what if chad does this? How do I alpha act?" Youll know if youre operating frame because youll be living unattached in the moment. You dont work on not giving a fuck you just find eventually that most of lifes crap is petty and beyond freaking out over.
The same mindset that allowed you to hunt wild animals and not fear death makes what chad does at that party pretty easy to handle. Just find that, the rest of this is just thinking for the fun of it.
Ug.. It think I need a tampon.
Here's the ultimate twist here, governor. The main reason we need to keep out emotions under control is because emotions inhibit action. If you want to go cry to a woman, go for it--we are warning you of consequence, but perhaps that's all part of your calculations, so ok. That is completely separate from the fundamental need to keep our shit together to perform in the world.
Dr. Jordan Peterson is that you?
I noticed this as well. Op has definitely been reading 12 rules for life.
Instead of analyzing “what feminism is”, why not just cut to chase? OP’s last few paragraphs are the real takeaway.
Feminism has a toxic effect on our society and culture. We should just disregard it and let it wither away into nothing.
I doubt it will just wither away. Too many males out there willing to cuck themselves and give women attention and get nothing in return.
The real issue that they're so blind to power dynamics.
You can't just think that circunstancial evidence towards your tesis is enough to validate it, there are far too many counter-examples to everything you said.
Provide them or your post is useless
OP assumes a dominance hierarchy in hunter gatherer societies to feed his alpha male narrative, when these societies are believed to have been more egalitarian and monogamous. He then used anecdotal cherry-picked examples to make it sound more authentic and believable
This is a pattern throughout the whole post. OP finds a nice sounding explanation for feminism/#metoo/friendzoning/rites of passage/etc and proceeds to use anecdotal examples to make it sound true. If you want examples, how about the fact that rites of passage don’t turn a boy into a man, they kill the ones who don’t fit in that society’s definition of a “good” male. How about the fact that it’s mainly teenage girls that scream and throw their panties to justin bieber and the like: it’s not a trait women all share, it’s just a side effect of puberty hormones in girls. How about the fact that men friendzone women just like women do. It’s about keeping a person around as an ego boost without being attracted to them.
OP’s post is riddled with terrible logic. That doesn’t mean some of what he says isn’t valid, btw. It’s just unsubstantiated, like most things in TRP. And in feminist/blue pill/metoo circles, for that matter
So what you're telling me is:
Early
and often
I'm starting to think most supremacy on earth has it's origins in female biology.
This should be a book or something. I was working out for a little bit but got sick and now I'm back to being a little underweight and insecure. I'm on vacation with my family rn but I might go hit the gym at our hotel later. I've got a girlfriend and I know I provide comfort but I know that I'm not alpha. She honestly acts as if she sees me as an alpha and I know she pedestalizes me but I want to be able to cement that. She's a beautiful woman and I want to be a more desirable man to her. I know that I have the ability to be alpha
Tbh bro... bitches don’t give a fuck about what men go through to transition into a man. All people care about now is vanity, that’s it. Sure, there might be some pretty boys that have lived and experienced some shit but most of them don’t have any cred under their belt besides being a pretty boy and starting a lifting program. I like the message you’re trying to spread but at the end of the day, we just gotta find ways to get better as men and reap the rewards when they come
Somewhat indirectly this happened to me at the store yesterday. So concerned about the possibility my cards would get declined(irrational thought they aren't maxed out/have money in bank) or the fact that this lady would have to scan 10 individual yogurts and 8 cans of tuna. I was using a card that I don't usually use and forgot about the chip thing, and kept swiping over and over(2-3 times) and someone's like "you have to put it in the bottom" like oh yeah...
Wow. Not arguing here to some extent. I can tell when I would play movies/shows almost on loop, though it was background noise it did "fill a void" in a way. Still the podcasts for me is a way to learn especially my 12-15hr bike rides every week to work. But the youtube I could agree on. Online forum is me asking questions(making an ass of myself) and sometimes returning value by helping others, mostly it is a time sink, but can't be productive all the time I've found out so far.
Damn I don't know if it's possible, I'd volunteer to write it, a hover-show definition on the freaking acronyms... if not through reddit a chrome extension. Could be possible without JS, using CSS hover and after selector... hmm
Don't think this is a rite of passage but I was working data entry(kind of job you want to empty a slug into your head) and my life sucked/stalemate. I felt this desire to escape/run. My life imploded after failing out of school(primarily stemming from not being successful with women/trying to be a cool guy)... didn't focus on school/partied all the time instead to try and get laid(almost never happened). Not a bad looking guy either in terms of shape/height/age... but I do fall under that insecure/self doubt/looks at the ground. Anyway I moved to another state and lived with a friend(safety net) stationed at a base. Worked some shit jobs for a while, same feeling of "I need to escape". My life is still a clusterfuck but I'm a developer now and make much better pay. I'm still recovering financially after I let all my shit default/got sued a couple of times. Now I rent my own 2br apartment by myself, increasing my skills... at the moment getting out of shape slowly though fucking sucks... but I bike up to 150miles a week... doesn't mean shit apparently compared to lifting. Still a failure with women/freeze around super attractive chicks, but when I read this it makes sense. At the moment I'm primarily focused on being financially free/independent but I'm in a hole... that's deep. I still fear getting fired, but I am competent. I look forward to the future as I improve. My rite of passage would have been, homeless if I didn't make it. No family to turn to(burned bridges/death).
Come from the JBP reddit. This is way long. Too much to read just now. I'll look at it this evening. Of the bit I read, it seemed reasonable, maybe a bit simplified (for clarity?) and from an American perspective.
This is totally Jordan Peterson.
Lol that last paragraph was funny. Women will never love men, they will only love what men can do for them.
I see the words impose your will which means leadership. Good post. Remember guys your "being" is assumed, willed and recognised.
One of the best articles I’ve ever read... all men need to see this!
To be honest I'm surprised a fellow o&a sub degenerate can post something this insightful.
Well god damn.
I’ll probably read this again tomorrow morning.
Any modern day rite of passage suggestions lads?
Yep. The issue is when you use "anything that you can derive a feeling of satisfaction" as your sole source. Same thing about video games can be said about basketball and football, some people even go workaholics instead of facing their issues.
Sports, however, aren't strictly only mentally draining but also naturally physical so your limits of exertion are the stopping power that keeps people from "overplaying them". The same can't be said for video games that require almost no attention span especially if you play them casually.
thanks you for this masterpiece
Someone has read some Jordan Peterson. I approve.
One of the most helpful threads I read so far in the red pil. Thanks man
Too long of a post.
The reality is much simpler: women were jealous of men and their power. They've found a way "fight back" by co-opting beta males and promising them gold stars and a pat on the head if they fall in line. So many people pay lip service to feminism because they fear the public shaming.
Thanks dor writing such a long Post. I love this subreddit.
Well written man, this makes so much sense.
Because that would increase the maximum amount of investment said men would have in their tribe? You're greatly underestimating the fact that the men who reproduced overtime were simply the men who survived the longest to do so, while several other men died in war or hunting/gathering resources.
Pleasure is the killer of masculinity and if it could be represented in calories, we're like on a 50,000 calorie diet of mental junk.
What are some good books on Rites of Passage, when a Man becomes a Boy?
Mostly correct. Except please everyone in this Sub:
Substitute
DOMINANCE HIERARCHYto COMPETENCE HIERARCHY.Dominance is primitive, pre-democracy, pre-soft power. COMPETENCE HIERARCHY is more accurate in how the world works today with Soft Power and Social values driving much of behaviour.
This is good, cant believe is in this sub
interesting perspective.i like it.
interesting perspective.i like it.
As the chinese saying goes:
There is gold under a man's knees.
We must choose wisely when to bend the knee.
This was a great post but I have one question for you gentlemen.
I know how to pass a shit test. Just agree and amplify... But how do I pass this “compliance test”?
Enlighten me if you would be so kind.
While I agree with everything this post says, and it is very well written, it completely misses the fact that feminism is a political movement.
Feminism in 2018 wants to do away with competence hierarchies altogether, which is basically doing away with western civilisation.
As much as video games, porn and podcasts are delusions of success in manly pursuits, this article is a delusion that a political battle can be fought on an individual level. The article asserts that if men embrace masculinity and work on improving themselves then the problem of feminism and its political power will go away.
This is dangerously close to the main tenet of communism: if people would just realise that they don’t need all the stuff they want, then finally “from each according to his ability, to each according to his need” will suddenly become workable.
In other words, any movement that expects human nature to change is doomed to fail. You cannot get rid of beta behaviour, it was there since the dawn of time and it will always be there. As long as it’s there and there’s democracy, the will of the majority will sooner or later become law / company policy, and feminism will try to gain more ground.
Feminism is a political movement, and it can only be fought on a political level.
And nature is responding by pushing such women out of gene pool. More than 50% of women of breeding age in the West are childless. And that is OK - each successive generation of women will have a bit stronger maternal instincts, and a bit stronger dependence on men.
It's retarded to invoke evolution/nature as explanation - we conquered that shit long time ago. We create the rules now. "Weakness", "responsibility" and all your bullishit phrases - that can all be culturally regulated via laws and norms. For the most part of the existence of our species bitches were impregnated for 10-15 times a lifetime, starting at the age of 14, by more than one man. They are biologically hardwired to behave like that, and once men created civilization they created breeding rules to direct such behavior so that it can maximize the civilizational output. Pairing one woman with one man for wife is exactly the optimal function for that.
Women's sole biological purpose is to produce and raise children. They lizard brains are incapable of making an educated choice of a quality reproductive male in the modern civilization. That's why their fathers and brothers made that choice for ten thousand years, until some idiots gave them voting rights. And those some voting rights are the reason why you can never be of "value" - they steal most of of the economic value produced by men through taxes. The only winning move is either not to play (which reduces the economic space of the socialist slavery machine) or go full Amish/Islam.
If you give women economic security and freedom of choice to pick mates like they have today in the West, they default to whoring from the age of 14, never taking responsibility for their degenerate behavior and wondering why no one wants them after two decades of switching cocks. That is the observable behavior across all cultures, races, and continents. The fix will come by reestablishing patriarchy, by changing the structure of the genetic stock with less whores and more tradwives.
slow clap
I don’t read a good post like this since a while! Thank you very much OP. You somewhat summarized the core values and principles of TRP and added on top a few insights of yours (without sounding like an anti-social jerk, quite the opposite). Very well written brother. Saved and upvoted.
Cheers
I've always protested that what we face now is an economic problem. It's a bigger issue than just lumping this on men to stop playing video games and jacking off to porn, If women aren't going to fall into line then it's all for nothing.
For the first time in history women on mass have money and resources to fend for themselves. Except it doesn't really feel like equality to anyone does it? The middle class is vanishing and it's leaving a slump of 'millenials' in a wake of dead end employment living pay check to pay check. It's an everyman for themselves scramble and just like the sinking of a ship, it's the women and children who will be the only ones to be bailed out by others. Some of them are carted off on lifeboats of sugar daddies or big biz HR. While for the men, only the elite thinkers are taken aboard - and even they will get exploited and under paid.
As a man do whatever it takes to be on your own boat and forge your own way with whatever sacrifices needed. But fundamentally if you want to save yourself and be in a position to get your share of women then you'd do well to earn a fuck load of money.
This post belongs in the sidebar, fantastic write up
I agree about men prolonging their boyhood lucid lifestyle but, WHY?
How many were the product of a single mom? Grew up without a father because mom cheated or she picked playboy?
There's definitely a culture of Peter Pan Syndrome. A conflict in masculinity. Peterson depicts the Peter Pan story.
Peter Pan sees hook, a adult tyrant. He's got a hook for a hand. Its time. Time got him. He sees Hook and what is to transition from boyhood to manhood and he chooses not to make the sacrifice.
We're a culture of Peter Pan. Men either take the red pill, digest the red pill rage, seeing the destroyed men in society. Hearing how toxic you are as a man. Graded lower by your man hating teachers. Either hit on girl or be a incel. If you man up, risk false accusations. If you don't play, women shame you. Men will mock you.
Men are seeing female nature as it is and are going the Peter Pan route. Its like, I can get married to a woman who spent her youth being a booty call. I can raise some man's baby with a woman who in her best day wouldn't return my call or worse, would public shame via social media.
There's definitely a culture problem. A bigger issue is that, not getting the ring could result in false accusations three decades from now. Its not going to happen to me until it does.
Its not my first rodeo. Time is coming for us all. My aim is self actualization, self knowledge, lift something heavy, explore consciousness. Sure, go get baeee but, the juice isn't worth the squeeze.
She wants me when Chad stops coming isn't a great selling point when the last two decades include her being a booty call. Introduce my wife- her Vid is out on cyberspace along with pics of poor lifestyle choices.
Ummm no. I am not sold.
Not-reproductive sex is compliance test. All this shit is about getting laid and cannot lead to a long lasting relationships where a man is actually equipped to be a father and the head of a household.
Have confidence in yourself by faith in God.
Ist this true? Statements like this need more source or discussion.
"This ensured that only the right men would propagate their genes. Only some men all throughout human history were allowed to pass on their genes, which makes perfect evolutionary sense. If there are 10 men and 10 women in a tribe, why would you have each individual man mate with each individual women? Why not just get the man who has the highest value (ie. can add the most value to the tribe) to mate with all the women? That makes the most sense from a purely evolutionary perspective."
All cultures or civilisations I can think of have rules that deal with mate distribution. How do we know the famed hunter gatherer or even its pre human predecessor did not have them? Statements like yours need some explanations. Why should the men stick around If they have no chance?
Evolutionary biology or psychology is not that easy... google "Just so Storys" But you are not the only one that throws them around in this sub like meth in the trailer park.
men have always been weak, led by animal instincts/desires, etc.. so you can't base your whole premise on men being weak 'today'. your post is good game but not raping women isn't a shit/compliance test that modern men are failing...... there's no rational reason to be afraid legally of things related to #metoo if you're actually alpha. yes, there's crazy women but they are very rare, and 90%+ of women will never falsely yell rape.
tbh, i only say this since you wrote an essay on trp: why do you let politics dictate your frame so much? you worried about being accused of sexual assault/rape? it's gotta be more likely you get genital warts than be falsely accused of rape. if you're alpha and weed out red flags early and without mercy, your woman is never gonna be crazy enough to actually accuse you of rape (ASSUMING YOU NOT ACTUALLY A RAPIST). a lot of posts are too focused on 'fucking as many as possible' instead of fucking only high value decent women.... i understand slumming occasionally but #metoo shouldn't be statistically significant if you're alpha.
Part of the problem is this - if you let someone get into your head and fiddle with your sense of right and wrong, you've entered their frame. This is why bulletproof frame is necessary. The one thing we as men need to realize is that women need to remain dissatisfied and chasing at some level - no matter what you do, they cannot be totally happy or satisfied. Even when they get everything they say they want, they're still not happy.
There has never been and never will be a time when the typical woman explodes in abundance. Women are like the moon. Men don't get this part very well. They think something is wrong and she means what she says. This dissatisfaction is wrongly recognized by men as a problem which they can solved if only they can do what she wants - but in reality dissatisfaction, the mother of hypergamy, is inherent to women's nature. That's why she keeps shit testing. It's not a trick, it's an eternal insecurity and seeking, needing that reassurance before seeking again.
The truth is that most women are built with an inherent compartmental disconnect between their conscious and subconscious, and an inherent disconnect between their psychological and physiological needs, a disconnect between their AF/BB needs. Their minds are always a flux of a conflicting mass of emotions and needs.
Most men do not know how far some shit tests can go. Women may test you to the point where they use shaming, histrionics, or threaten to leave - some tests can last for months. One can only pass these tests with rock solid abundance. If you're that man who's discovered he can thrive no matter what, you're the sun. But here I must add a word of warning - testing is different from real shit like BPD, NPD and HPD - the female dark triad. All women tend to have these characteristics to some degree, it is part of being feminine, and when it is within limits it is no different from dealing with a child at times. In normal women, these characteristics have their limits, they are aware of their boundaries and principles, and they will bend and surrender to a display of masculine power.
In extreme female minds, the sanity limiters are off, and things can quickly escalate beyond all limits into a force of destruction. A man must develop the cunning and tactics to know and deal with this for his own safety, he must get out in time before he's caught in the eye of the storm - these women don't mind destroying everything including themselves if it means they can hurt you. The difference is very obvious to common sense. A man must ruthlessly filter out such destructive women from his life.
Not unlike the male urge, but women get holes in their minds as often as men get eruptions. Orgasms only last for a short time, not so much that it exhausts you, but enough that you want it again and again. Learn from that and practice strategic comfort. Wanting has always been better than having. So long as you are wanting, you have an idealized image in your mind whose idealistic purity attracts you. It is polarity between you and the object you seek that forces you to seek.
You cannot resolve her dissatisfaction - she will always complain that you and her life isn't good enough. Then what? First of all, recognize that this is not actually a problem. Counterintuitvely, dissatisfaction is the only true cause of improvement. The only solution then is to keep her dissatisfied in a way that she needs to keep pursuing you. Keep 'em hungry for more, but do not starve them either. Once you realize this, you'll focus more on what you know is the right thing to do.
Don't trust 'friends', learn to use 'enemies' has many interpretations.
okay well this is a decent write up. i just feel like trp and shit like that is for people who arent so low value they make women viscerally repulsed, or turned off at the cellular level as OP described. how can a man overcome that? its the ultimate snake eyes dice roll. gotta just go for surgery i figure.
RemindMe! 30 hours "Read this."
You lost me here.
Somebody's failing a macro level compliance test too, it seems. Extrapolate on this, why are those things valuable, letalone a rare commodity?
There is no real loyalty - if you shit the bed you'll be punished. Respect is all within an individual relationship but pedestalizing pussy either itself or pedestalizing it through this 'Chad' deity does more harm than good - why do I want women's respect? If said respect is the goal of this forum then who does it serve more - men or women? Love? If it's valuable, it's uncommon, if it's common it isn't valuable.
Sounds like a great message but all it does is encourage investing your own happiness in external validation. You're still a slave building someone else's world, not your own.
Okay, so i'm sitting here in the middle of the night, discovered this sub, sorted from "top this month" and read this entire post. Holy fucking shit, I just felt like i got my mind completely blown. This is just.. wow. I think this might have changed my life.
Welcome to TRP. Read the sidebar.
A shit test IS a compliance test. How are they different for you?
Great advice.
In the past I have written extensively for manosphere sites on a number of topics - but while this was a useful stage in my development and ingesting of theredpill, I eventually concluded that yes, there was not much point in being a beta male in revolt. I agree 100% with the perception of active manosphere contributors are being mere 'unruly slaves'.
I now seek to improve myself and evolve into the high-status male that women actively pursue. So I am saving money, learning a second language, travelling, banging girls and staying fit (China is a good place to do all this).
I do still try and help other men improve themselves on the side, but its not a high priority. Most men are still lazy and unresponsive. I think of Billy Joel's old anthem 'Angry Young Man' where he concludes 'I've found that just surviving was a noble fight...'
This post makes Reddit crash for some reason?
"You have to prove yourself"- you mised the whole point of red pill. You dont have to do SHIT. There are plenty of beta men proving themselves to women trying to get approval from the world working their ass off and geting nothing in return. Only thing you have to do is be fucking pleased with yourself and radiate those confident uninhibited cocky alpha bad boy vibes. And follow 16 commandments of poon. :)
The real victors in all this are the fat chicks who are getting chased around by guys who don’t feel like they can approach better mates. But hey the dating market is terrible, but the sex market is booming, if you don’t mind spending a couple.
I don’t agree with it all but good post overall.
As a woman i agree with nearly all of this. Thats a first for an article found on trp.
One of the rules of the sub is not to say you are a woman. Just a heads up for future comments.
as if you being a women makes your opinion more meaningful...ffs read the sidebar at least
Putting in words something that I've noticed and knew for a long time. During high-school I changed quite a few schools (traveling with parents to different countries for work) and I'd always had to prove myself in that new hierarchy, getting tested by the more alpha guys in order to integrate the "new tribe". Getting into fights and having the balls to insult back/throw a few punches/etc. would gain you massive respect, most of the guys that I fought I ended up having them as buddies afterwards, guys who would not dare say anything back or fight back would continue to get bullied and made fun of for years to come. When I see guys acting weak/victim mentality/loser frame, I still get the urge to slap the shit out of them, even when reading some asktrp or some stupid ass comments on this sub I think that those guys need a good dose of getting their manhood reattached to them via some physicality and it makes sense evolutionary speaking.
> When women see MGTOW, they don't see high value men that are refusing to date them,
So, the fuck they care what women think, I'm much lower value today, I live off of women, work 1-2 hours a month, and much happier. I use to work 80 hours week and make 6 figures and got 0 women. Your post is ignoring so much of the picture that is blue pill.
Working hard is not the answer too women, loving yourself is. Women will support you if you love yourself, this high value isn't what men think it is (good job, good body, good social skills), it's just loving your true self.
> The #MeToo campaign is a macro-level compliance test designed to regulate the sexual behaviour of low value men, and to also get low value men to regulate each others sexual behaviour.
Virtue signalling, "Hey women, I'm the high value men", #MeToo has destroyed high value men, Even the Prime Minister of Canada isn't immune, this isn't a compliance test , these are evil people, who don't give a fuck about you.
>You can't just complain about feminism and the current societal standards, you can't demand change, you can only command change.
Changes are happening but there is a stop gap group called men's liberation, let's just say feminism isn't a compliance test
> Recognise that there's a part of you that's resentful and angry and wants to impose your will against others.
This is what feminism is, Imposing your will on others.
> . You're a node that's within a network, and so everything you do ripples out and effects the world in some way.
People want to be at the bottom,the only person you should be concern with is you, not some self righteous savior attitude
Why would anyone have the idea that feminism is a shit test? Its not even worth mentioning that its not a shit test. They're not even in the same universe lol
What makes you think it's not?
Group selection is probably not why high value men are preferred by women.
I just want to live in peace. You guys compete. Best of luck.
Feminism is also for getting rid of being shamed for their body (Islam) and getting beaten up at home constantly (every country until the 50s).
The post was interesting, however, what's the point of women shaming more males into betas, thus having even less alphas? There are only so many alphas and they all want full commitment, which alphas give in after their 30s.
Know your audience. I didn't read your post because it was extremely long and looked boring and I'm an Internet-addled 20yo whos ADHD as fuck, but I'll say this based on the title:
On our first date, my girlfriend asked me if I was a feminist. Now she chuckles along with my right wing politics like "teehee thisthiccbeat you're so edgy". Yesterday she told me that I should be a politician—this was the same day that I told her I think Asians have low empathy and racial autism.
What's racial autism and Why do you think that about Asians
East Asians have poor social skills. You can see this in each Asian culture. The Japanese have this extremely complicated and formal culture to compensate for this so that everyone always knows what to do and say even though they can't gauge situations intuitively, while the Chinese just argue all the time and mistrust and hate eachother.