Daily on the asktrp sub we see threads where guys lament that they can't get laid because they aren't in the top 20%. This is the magical number it takes to get laid, have a baller lifestyle and be able to have an incredible life. Apparently.
There’s tons of good advice that has is usually given. However, what I decided to do is actually show the real stats for what it takes to get into the top 20% of several items. The point of this isn’t to rehash, it’s to give a bit of a reality check. Likely you're able to achieve these things somewhat easily or they don't matter as much as you think they do.
All these statistics are taken from US sources, so take them for what you will. If you live in Europe or another country things might be slightly different.
Height: If you’re 5’11’’ or above you are in the 80th percentile for height. Most women judge a guy if he is under 6 feet but don’t realize that only 16% of men are that tall. That’s one in six.
By the way, I checked stats as well from other areas. Anyone 6 feet is a giant in South America or any Asian country, averaging about the 95th percentile. Europe skews slightly taller overall but overall anyone 6 feet is still 76th percentile.
ProTip: Lie. If you’re 5’10’’ you can easily say you’re six feet and nobody is going to call you out. If it even matters to the person you’re with.
Dick size: If you’re above 5.7 inches then you’re in the 80th percentile. Meaning if you’re packing 6 inches then you’re well ahead of the game. Girls have no idea about normal dick size so when you whip it out unless you’re severely small then don’t stress about it. Frankly, if she’s seen so many cocks she can actually compare visually them then you’re probably with the wrong girl.
Guys obsess about this which is why I included it but realistically unless you’re exceedingly small it won’t make a difference at all. And no, you’re not eight inches long. If you were even 7 inches, out of 1000 dicks, only 33 would be your size.
N-Count: If you are 30 years old and have banged 21 women you’re in the 80th percentile. If you are 25 and have banged 16 women you’re in the 80th percentile.
The interesting thing about this calculation is that if I put in the same numbers for women who are 25 (16 partners) they are in the 92nd percentile. Meaning either a lot of women lie on these surveys or the ones with a high N count balance out the ones who wait for marriage and only have a couple of partners.
So don’t stress about having sex with a lot of women. If this is an achievement you want to unlock, you can hit that number fairly easily by the age of 30 if you stay single and have decent game.
Debt: I put this is because it’s something we don’t often speak about in TRP, but it’s important especially for younger guys. Here’s a scary statistic:
If you have zero savings and no debt – you’re ahead of 85% of the population in the US. So many people let themselves get into high amount of student debt, credit cards etc that really you should be shooting for debt free EVEN WITHOUT SAVINGS. Hopefully you’re smart enough to not fall into this trap, and if you’re one of those people who spent 100k on a useless liberal arts degree and now work at Starbucks I have nothing for you.
Debt free – make saving automatic from your paycheck – and don’t spend money on useless things (like a useless degree).
Earnings: Another one that might blow your mind or make you feel a lot better. If you make $72,000 a year in the US you’re in the 80th percentile for income. Now, cost of living is a thing. If you live in New York, San Francisco, etc then you likely need to make a higher amount but this is the average. There are cheaper places to live and work across the country.
The 1% statistically makes just under $400k a year – so if you’re even making six figures you’re laughing in comparison in the US. And if you moved somewhere else? That 100k would easily make you a king. Try heading to Thailand with $10,000 and you can live with servants and hookers daily in a suite for three months.
To summarize, the reason for this is to show people that you likely are ahead of the game. The other important rule to follow is not to compare yourself to others, especially the fake lifestyles you see all over social media. To get into the top 20% there are some simple adjustments you can make. Instead of complaining about how you’ll never get there this is an example of what it actually takes and it’s likely not as hard as you think it is.
I've posted this a few times but I'll keep posting this when this stuff comes up.
At age 31 I was dating a cute and smart 21 year old. I was making $200k+ a year, working out 5 days a week (I'm 6'4"), and doing great at work. I was doing so well, that apparently there was nothing left for her to do but fuck a local NFL player.
There's always someone better and different. If you become top #% of men, you'll date approximately the equivalent status woman. That woman will think she can do a few (or more) % better, and she will go try.
That's actually awesome dude. It says more about you that she had to tingle for NFL Chad to branch swing. Some guys get cheated on with the damn waiter or college flunk out...
I think sometimes that happens anyway. That other guy will be interesting to her, merely because he's different and new.
My other favorite is when she tries to replace you with a less attractive version of yourself - ie. a guy who looks just like you, same style, same interests - but is like the C grade version LOLOLOLOL
Or because he is just a toy that is supplying something emotionally that you are not able to do.
Yea... he doesn’t put the woman on a pedestal, and will treat her like the cheating whore that she is. Fulfilling her emotional need to not be bored, and physically with his cock.
hypergamy doesn't care about your stats... only the next guy's stats.
...and how they compare to yours.
This is totally wrong. They are her checkboxes, not yours. Don't have this mentality or else good luck being OK when she chooses some dirtball over you.
You ARE NOT being compared objectively, you are being replaced emotionally.
Not even in absolute terms. She can fuck a bodybuilder one day and a Rockstar the next
genetic diversity is the goal
“hypergamy doesn't care about your stats... only the next guy's stats.”
This guy gets it. Ask me how I know.
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cool. just remember, while it's your turn to have her, she's already looking at the next, next guy.
i'll be the next next guy too
of course.
as men, it's not our pussy to own... we just take turns enjoying it.
And this statement right here gentlemen is exactly how those pro athletes and entertainers pass around or get cheated on by the same FEW women.
So even though these guys can have any woman they want, they all still go after women that are just as high in status as they are. And of course those same women can cheat on those high profile celebrities with others just like them.
That's because those high profile celebriteis are retards.
If they picked one of their millions of groupies to be in a sexual relationship with, over some bitch in the top 1% of people, then they would never get cheated on.
But they're stupid and wanna bang the real Rhianna, instead of a hood bitch who looks like her - without worrying about if she gonna cheat, cus the hood look alike doesnt have the same opportunity or same SMV.
If the random fan cheats on the rockstar - then she will be alpha widowed.
Celebrities are bluepill. They often don't know how to leverage instinct for advantage. And they lose out in the divorce court.
Two factors make them chase equal status chicks:
1) The tragedy of relationships; we want those we can't have. Groupies are too available.
2) The woman on your arm raises your status. If you're giving your commitment to a low-status girl, then it reflects badly on you.
Rock stars have sex with groupies. Hell, their stage crews have sex with groupies. They just don't commit to them.
Also, obviously, I'm not a rock star... but I do think that if a girl managed to snag a celebrity, she won't stay grateful for long. Within a very short while, she will hamster that SHE is too good for him. Hypergamy doesn't care.
About point 2, men shouldn't be commuting/ marrying women at all. Especially with a celebrities amount of wealth.
Also, a king can turn any woman into a queen. The inverse is not true .
And if a rockstar is plating or FWBing like he should be, and not ltring, if she grows too bold and thinks she can do better, she will be in for a ride awakening when she is tossed to the side by a true pimp
You're right. Even famous rappers get cheated on. I might be wrong, but Ciara cheated on Future with an NFL player. He said this in one of his songs "you fell in love with a nigga drinking codeine, how you gonna fall for a nigga drinking creatine?"
Russel Wilson - QB for the Seattle Seahawks. She didn’t cheat, she just broke up with Future. In fact, Wilson is a devout Christian who claimed to be celibate - saving himself for marriage.
Ah. My mistake. However, according to Genius, she left Future for him. Not sure how credible that is
Yep. 32, 6’2”, earn just south of $100k, dated a soft 7 (Norwegian and was a freak in the bed). Ended up being a skank. You let them think they’re your speed, they’ll try to race up to anything and see what they’re made of; without you. AWALT
The thing is, a woman shouldn't even know what you're making because that's a BB trait. Earning a lot is just awesome for yourself, but it's better to keep it from the women you're fucking.
I mean realistically it's going to come up eventually.
Statistically in five years he will be broke and most likely have issue because of CTE. Being in the NFL is great ... but it is only for a short time. And the downfall is significant.
and you think that made one lick of a difference for anyone?
Yea, I do. Don't let an NFL player or any football player intimidate you. They will go from Hero to Zero in a few years.
Unless it is Brett Favre. If it is Brett Favre you are screwed.
You're missing that guy's point. Simply that you can be so high SMV, that you literally max out almost every box, and she will still find someone else to pick over you. Think of it like food. You could have tasted the most amazing steak ever at some high class restaurant, and choose to go there to enjoy it when you get the chance as it is now your most favorite food. If you were to eat that steak every day for every meal, you would eventually get tired of it. You would then eventually eat something else at least delicious, even if it is not as good as that steak, just to have something different.
Except Brett Farve tried to fuck that ESPN on field reporter, and she leaked his extremely pathetic dick pics to the world and embarrassed him.
Even Brett Fucking Farve got way overly invested in some strange and made an ass outta himself atleast once that we know of. If Brett Farve can get punked by a bitch because he was careless, so can allllll of us.
It's a movie reference that went over your head.
Watch There's Something about Mary.
The NFL dude was present tense.
Obviously, his gf didnt care about the future tense.
The lesson here is AWALT, assume they'll branch swing
They all say that they would do it again in a heart beat. Except when they file the papers for the lawsuit. There they say that if they knew about the concussions they wouldn't have played. But spoiler alert... they still would have.
This is some hamster bullshit. None of your logical "future potential" issues are going to stop a chick from fucking Mr. Genetic Awesomeness. Most of those guys are top 20% dudes. Does this mean you can't fuck girls? Of course not.
This whole post is about a 21-Year-Old GIRL. It is kind of pointless.
You have to look at the reason behind that statistic though and not take it at face value. Most NFL athletes are fucking idiots and will blow more money than they make on average.
As long as this guy isn't a total moron (and that's asking a lot), he will probably not be broke.
"By the time they have been retired for two years, 78% of former NFL players have gone bankrupt or are under financial stress. "
http://www.espn.com/30for30/film?page=broke
Your article confirms what I said. With the exception of medical expenses, these are easily preventable problems. Same reason rappers go broke.
Whores will be whores, don't be purple about a whore behaving like a whore. If she is with you because of money and status, then she will absolutely continue to climb up, why would a whore do anything else???
Yes, make sure you understand that there will always be someone better than you. However, hypergamy doesn't always swing up. "Better" is subjective, this is where men mentally fuck themselves by "comparing".
My buddy in college was an absolute bag of shit on paper. He was doing some of the most despicable things to the girlfriend of one of U of A's lineman.
Set the bar, period. Be her best emotional experience. Be her best sexual experience. Be intelligent. Be more than a fake, shallow social number. Material doesn't mean a thing in LTR if you are a meathead.
Does this mean equivalent status women should not be LTR'd (risk of branch swinging is higher)?
shes not yours, it's just your turn
She better be willing to switch to at least part time work/part time kids, else I'd say yes. Also, you'd better be ready for a lifetime in-frame. I'm not sure I could do it, so I wouldn't.
Edit: her accepting a role involving dedication to child rearing indicates a quality woman with her priorities straight, not just a subservient one.
what tf is your job where youre making that much?
I was in sales and was better than top 1% in the country (#5 out of 2200). I did it in a terrible industry (car sales), but it can be done in software, real estate sales, or anything really. If you are top 1% in sales in most industries, you'll probably make even more than you would in car sales. Top real estate agents, and top software/tech salespeople make substantially more.
Hey, I'm also in car sales.
Which industry did you transfer to? Or are you still in Car sales?
I left to build a software product of my own (I had some knowledge of programming from college, but eventually learned the actual technology 'stack' I chose on my own once I started). The product I built got 18 companies using it, but in the process I met a lot of people and ended up doing sales for an 8 person software development firm. So now I do sales for them. I make less but the lifestyle is pretty much like being on constant vacation with buddies. If I took it a bit more seriously I could probably make $300k+ from it. Currently I make about $100k just hanging out and going to some events where I usually meet a future customer.
Careers in IT can make over $100k by age 30. Finance, Stock Market Trading, etc can also make bigger bucks by age 30.
Almost any successful entrepreneur (working for your self) will make over $100k by age 30.
Those 3 are from my personal (and family) experience.
Here is a more detailed list:
https://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/29/25-jobs-where-you-can-earn-more-than-100000-a-year.html
Physician. Median base salary: $180,000. ...
Lawyer. Median base salary: $144,500. ...
R&D manager. Median base salary: $142,120. ...
Software development manager. Median base salary: $132,000. ...
Pharmacy manager. $130k ...
Strategy manager. 130k ...
Software architect. 128k ...
Integrated circuit designer engineer. $127k...
IT Manager $120k...
Here is a list of 25 jobs that pay over $100k:
https://money.usnews.com/money/careers/slideshows/25-best-jobs-that-pay-more-than-100k
If it makes you feel better, imagine the competitive arena that she's now found herself in. She's now having to measure up against of B-list starlets and bikini models.
How tall was the NFL player
Was he a star, or just some practice squad guy?
Notice how OP said "local"
That guy was actually an AFL player
Never ever invest emotionally into a woman. The outcome will NEVER be in your favor.
Jesus Christ, that's a bit shit, but pretty hilarious.
Why become high SMV and high status just to date the eqvuivilent in women?
Women date up - men date down.
All a high SMV guy has to do, is reach down and grab a 6/7 girl and he wins - if the girl cheats she will be alpha widowed.
Never date girls at your level unless it's casual
what was your frame with her?
What player? How did you find out? Can you make a post about it?
This is the most logical post answer I’ve read since being here , so true.
It's important to realize you dont need to be top 20% in all aspects to be top 20% overall
Also important to realize that you don't need to be top 20% across all men, just of the available options.
which is exactly why you should delete your OLD and go day game
I don't get all the hate with online dating. Please tell me, what could I do whilst taking a shit that would be more productive
They're just bitter because they are breaking the two rules of online dating, be attractive and don't be unattractive.
Please elaborate on this.
Height is all how you handle it. I'm 5'7", married a girl who is 5'6". There were plenty of taller men within the social circle. I was in really good shape, so that helped a lot. Most importantly, I didn't compete for her attention when other guys would talk to her. The night I won, was a night I just went elsewhere at the party to flirt & talk with other women.
That night, she told one guy she wasn't interested, he got pissed, she cried. Another guy ran up to comfort her, and once she was done crying and felt better, she came up to me and we left.
This was all before I started reading the pill, or even knew what I was doing, at least consciously. Post marriage story is a bit different, just because I subconsciously became a passive little b*itch. But that's a story for a different day, basically my mom wore the pants in our household growing up, and I bought societies garbage.
Yea I'm 5'7". My wife is 5'9". I think it is great. All of my boys are taller than me. Keep on marrying someone shorter you end up with leprechaun size boys.
Height was never an issue. Most of the girls I dated were exactly my size or taller. I'll compete against anyone. Now this was before Internet dating where height will exclude someone immediately. I would probably lie a bit about my height and let them reject me face-to-face.
The Leprechaun issue was my thought exactly. I didn't want to continue the short line, so I married someone tall to give it a fighting chance. She's shorter than me, but her parents are both tall, Dad 6'4, mom 5'11. My wife actually had an injury that caused her growth plate in her hip to shatter when she was 16 or so. So they cracked the other one to even things out.
Works great for me! I get a girl I can physically handle with ease, and get some tall genes into my line. Luckily I was accidentally doing a lot of tpr stuff when we met, so now that I'm studying it again things are falling right back into place.
Height is only one factor. So you have a negative in that box, it just means you need more positives in other boxes, money, social skills, etc.
Honestly this is how I keep sane about being short, especially how looked down it is on social sites. Always say win some/lose some in the genetic lotto. I know I have other qualities about myself that our great, great enough to medigate being short.
Times were different back then. I’m 5’9 and I’m considered short as fuck. Most girls want a dude who is 6+. Smh
You are using your height as an excuse. There is something else you need to fix. You don't want to come to terms with that, so you blame it on something that can't be fixed, your height. That way, it is not your fault. The idea girls only will go out with 6+ guys is laughable. Look around.
Not using my height as an excuse, I actually get a ton of IOIs. Just saying how it’s almost become an epidemic. Online dating could be rough for short guys but IRL we don’t have a problem at all. Just saying it is a growing problem.
How do you doggy style? Legit question. I am just shy of 6'2 and tall girls are always a problem. Girls who are around 5'5 have the perfect leg length to place that pussy right where I want it.
Spent the winter with a play date who was 5'10. I'm 6'2. I doggy styled her standing whilst she was on the bed. We had amazing chemistry in and out of bed. Then the winter ended and she went back to her boyfriend who bought her a car, a puppy and she doesn't have to work and goes to parties every weekend. Meh...next.
I hate doggy while standing. It feels like I'm holding myself back; I have much more thrusting power if I'm on my knees.
They can't simply keep her legs further apart? I suspect it's an issue of most girls not being willing to put in the effort; nothing worse than that "dead fish" experience...
5-9 means 6’ on tinder They never know
I wouldn't use being married to a chick as a measure of you being better than the otger men in your social circle.
It wasn't the being married part, she just happens to be my wife now.
Edit: For example, I've never dated a girl who was under 5'5". Many have been taller than me. That was just the most recent example I had.
Some of the biggest players and ladies men ive ever met in my life were almost all shorter than me (6'0)
Guys below 5'11 in height can still become top 20% males even though they are not top 20% in height
It's a concept called talent stacking. The likelihood that a single person is in the 80th percentile in a handful on unrelated traits is low.
It all boils down to this: you are more special than you think. Act like it.
I wish all the Indian guys, and short guys understood this. There are so many tall bluepill men that repulse women.
Iol, not all Indians are short.
I still maintain that top 20% is a low goal. Look around you: how hot truly is a top 20% female? Even in my college years rn when girls are supposedly peaking and have the most value relative to their same age male counterparts, I would not want my match to be one in five chicks. If a class of mine has 15 chicks, only one is going to actually be hot--if I'm only better than 80% of the males in that class, I have no shot to get the hot chick.
Be better than top 20%.
Probably a type but if you were in the top 20 percent you would be better than 80 percent of the dudes in your class.
Yeah, that was a typo. Lol
Hot = tall. If all you are counting is hotness, you are shortchanging yourself. Plenty of really cute, sweet, intelligent, funny... In short "attractive" women around.
Look for the package, not just one characteristic.
I agree that only counting appearance is flawed, but for me it has to be the #1 consideration. If I'm just fucking this chick, I want a chick who has me rock hard and full of lust--that's a hot bitch, not a "good" one.
And if I'm dating a chick, I want a chick who's going to give my kids the best chance to succeed, a.k.a. superior DNA. That is also a hot bitch.
You see, either way looks are the most important thing for a chick. That said, I wouldn't date a cunt just because she's hot--that's not a model for success. But I would never date a chick I didn't find hot, and I wouldn't put in much effort to fuck one that isn't hot either.
And my measurement of "hot" is, again, MUCH less than the top 20%.
Superior DNA is not a question of looks.
I was in an LTR with an actual lingerie and bathing suit model. Astounding does not even do justice to her looks.
The woman was rotten inside, but youth and the validation I got from such arm candy kept me with her.
Nowadays I look for much more.
If a woman is within looks parameters, but nice, sweet, intelligent, funny, I'm all in.
I guess experience does that.
I'm early 50's, occasionally banging a couple of 20 somethings, but give me a well rounded woman, 25 to 55 any day. I need more than looks.
20% of 15 chicks = 3 hot chicks...?
I know. What I'm saying is that there are not 3 hot chicks; therefore, being top 20% is not enough because two dudes are still better than you, and they're the ones getting the actual hot chick.
Where the fuck do you live dude... sounds like you're just at the wrong spot for hot girls.
I go to a Big Ten University, and I come from a wealthy East Coast area. Most chicks are just not hot if you look at the total population.
Girls in good schools are typically not as attractive as the general population.
This trope is very widely-believed, but I don't think it plays out in real life. Maybe Harvard deters good-looking girls, but the school I go to attracts wealthy students (because they're well-educated as were their parents) and also students looking to party (Big 10) which is a lot of hot girls. Compare this to the girls you will find in, say, Tennessee and I'd bet that my school is better.
That said, I think somewhere like Arizona State is much better looks-wise than my school... but Arizona State isn't the "general population."
Maybe ivy league... but Big 10 girls are waaaay hotter than average population women. It's not even close dude.
Especially considering these stats are of the general population... Considering the vantage point of an attractive woman, average is short. To be "Top 20%" in terms of the pareto distribution is more like Top 10%-5%
Interesting idea... Dont shoot for top 20% Go for top 5%
What then would stats be for top 5%?
Im top 20% already, interested in next levels....
Per request, gave it a google.
Height: 6'2"
Good facial aesthetics (difficult to upload a picture and say "this is it"--but I doubt you're hitting top 5% without genetics
N count: 13 @ 20 years old, can't find good data for any older than that
Income: $79,000/year at 25 years old
Good social skills should also be required. Again, difficult to quantify.
Things like max bench I think should also be relevant. There's obviously no data on that. Just by looking around, though, most people don't lift--so if I had to guess, maybe benching 200 and deadlifting 400 (incredibly guesstimating) would be about 5%
Do these #s seem a little low to anyone else? I'm turning 21 soon, and while I'm much shorter than the height data point, the N count point I'm ahead of by a few and the income data point I will probably outdo directly out of college. I think these 5% stats should be achievable for most hardworking RedPillers.
Also something that might want to be touched on is overweight stats in the usa according to the CDC-
If you at least around 14% body fat your more than likely around the 20% range. Now i Do not know if there is a national average of body fat percentage study (i did not look to hard) but if you at least eating right and working out there is no reason why your body should not be in the 25% range.
its disgusting, I read somewhere that US avg bodyfat is close to 27%
thats INSANE! 27%!!!!! that means next to NO arm definition and visible fold of fat
is that average for us males, or overall population?
LOL yeah crucial distinction
not sure if you're sarcastic, so i'll explain i guess. it is important since healthy body fat % for women is higher than for men. 27% average for men would be horrible really. that's almost obese.
Yeah I know I wasn’t being sarcastic. I was laughing cuz the other guy apparently didn’t realize this obviously important factor. I was agreeing w you.
ye i figured, but this is reddit, had to check sorry :)
I start feeling like a fat fuck at 14%-16% bf and start cutting... this is pathetic lol
Holy shit, that is....not good.
I was 235 at 6'4. Decided to get my diet together and started climbing 3 times a week. Got down to 210 in a few months and had more then a few women make comments like "oh you're so skinny now" or "i like my men to have a little cushion". I was still fiveish lbs overweight by bmi and to a lot of these girls that was abnormal. The GF did the same and got similar results but i mostly chalk that up to female jealousy. Just (anecdotally) goes to show how normalized obesity is in America.
They probably just want to bring you down a notch. Jealousy leads to manipulation so they can make themselves feel better for not taking care of themselves.
Women do this shit all the time. They want their guys to be attractive but they also want to be able to control them. Don't let it happen.
I'm 6'4" too. This morning I weighed 202 lbs (down from over 330). Still need to lose about 25 pounds. Lean athletic guys weigh less than a lot of people seem to think.
You want to weigh 180 at 6‘4‘‘?
Go lift. Like seriously, you tryna disappear or some shit?
Here I am at 5'8"/ 190/14% wishing I had more muscle.
you're underestimating invisibility!!
A buddy of mine is 150-160 at 6'4. I've been trying to encourage this skinnyfuck to head to the gym with me, but he legitimately has obligations that make it difficult to go.
180 to 185 pounds or so is not insignificant. In football lots of wide receivers and safeties are that size. Lots of basketball players too. Back in 1980 I went to the Alberta High School Provincial Wrestling Championships at 186 pounds (yeah I'm that old).
I do lift BTW.
Interesting. I am 6 5 at 250. But I am German, hence basically invisible as well (barely above average)
Lol why do people write things that are demonstrably false? 6'4" 180 is way too skinny for high school football, much less college or NFL. Here is a list from two years ago of the smallest player at every NFL position. The smallest receiver is 5'8" 168, and the smallest safety is 5'9" 186.
lol I'm 180 at 5'10. I can't imagine what 180 at 6'4 would be. 202 is good for 6'4 he's just skinny fat. Ideally at 6'4 I'd like to be 215 or something.
Very very few people can be both lean and over 200 lbs without steroids. In his prime Arnold was only 235 lbs (and he took lots of steroids).
I look pretty good in street clothes. Today I was wearing a size 46 tall sport coat and size 34x34 khakis. I don't expect to look that much different at about 185 lbs -- hoping I'll finally have visible abs.
You’re right. I’m 180 at 6’3 and I look unhealthily skinny. My arms are so long I look really stretched out. My girls biggest complaint about me is being “underweight” even tho I’m not. When I met her, I was 220 and still looked too skinny. I am rapidly gaining weight again and would have to be around 240~ to look “healthy”, for lack of a better word.
Its not your weight, its the muscle. What size are your arms?
Haha, yeah i absolutely gave 0 fucks about them saying it. It was a personal choice to be healthier, live longer, and look better naked. It's just kinda crazy that so many people find being overweight "normal". Grats on the weight loss bro! Keep it up! I stalled out and kinda floated around 210-215 for a while. Recently got some concerning news from the doctor though which has me cutting waaaaay back on the drinking. Without those extra calories i should be reaching my goal weight (195) in a month or so. Looking forward to seeing my abs again heh.
I'm looking forward to that too. I've never been able to see my abs -- hoping I can soon.
I'm 6'5", and the lightest I've been in ten years is 230. I have no idea how you guys are sub 200 at relatively the same height.
I have a fairly average bone structure -- at 202 pounds I am not skinny. To be lean (i.e. about 12% BF) I need to weigh about 180 pounds. No amount of lifting is going to change that (absent steroids of course).
Watching UFC has really reinforced this for me. When Chris Weidman can be 6'2" and weigh in at 185 lbs. you realize how fat most guys are. Granted, that's cut weight so he's obviously heavier but you get my point.
Yeah -- lots of guys who lift are deluding themselves -- very very few guys can be both lean and over 200 pounds -- even when they're over six feet tall.
BMI is a joke. I'm 6'6 250, am I fat?
Calling BS, those women were selling you a shaming tactic and you bought it. If your frame is right, 5lbs is not an issue anywhere in the world.
Maybe your fat maybe your not? You should go get your body fat checked if you have questions about it. It's better for your heart then randomly lashing out at people online.
Who said I bought anything? It was an observation about what people I interacted with thought was normal weight actually being overweight. As I stated in another reply I was losing the weight for personal health and aesthetic reasons. I wasn't deterred from living longer and looking better naked by hearing what other people think. At least I'm guessing that's what you took from my post?
Yes, you give the impression that you care what those people think. Grow some thicker skin if you think you are being lashed at.
BMI is not an effective way to describe your health or your looks. I said "BMI is a joke", you weren't able to extrapolate that I was being a smartass about the whole thing. I am sitting here at 117/77, those numbers say more for your heart than BMI.
Sounds like a lot of projection on your part. Your problem not mine bud.
Also I'll go ahead and go with the CDC over some internet bro when it comes to the science of being healthy. Btw there are quite a few other reasons to not want to be fat even with a good heart rate. Go take a look.
https://www.cdc.gov/healthyweight/effects/index.html
It is Body Mass Index, not Body Fat Index. Not all mass is Fat. I don't condone obesity as much as I don't condone being a skinny weakling.
People who work out and are very healthy can score poorly on the BMI scale.
Blood pressure, with heart rate. There are plenty of "skinny" dudes with shit blood pressure.
I just want to add to this, it's not just USA that has this perception of what is normal weight.
I'm 5'7" and cut down from 162 to 147 (Roughly, about 74kg to 67kg). about 13/14% body fat.
From UK and talking with my family, my brother who is the same height asked "isn't 67kg at 5'7" is unhealthy?" he is 184lbs (84kg)
I said according to BMI its about 23.something. 25 is overweight territory so no, it's not unhealthy.
Good post, but I hope that readers keep these things in mind in a healthy way. You can be a top 20% man without really realizing it, and many men fall under this category and still fail in dating. I work in tech, and know plenty of guys who earn well over $100k, are above average height, decent shape, have some cool hobbies, and still do not date the women they want to, or any women at all, because they do not know how to talk to women.
On the other side of this, there are men who don't reach the top in any of these categories and still pull women "out of their league" because they either have strong game, or use PUA bullshit. The point is, you can reach most of these goals fairly easily - although not necessarily quickly - and still be a social outcast.
If you want to be a top 20% man, and also be perceived that way, then it requires more than just these numbers that you can write out on a spreadsheet. For example, a guy earning $150k may not look like he does if he dresses like shit, doesn't have a presentable apartment, and gets overly drunk and awkward when he's out. It is important that people who digest this sort of information understand that even if you reach these goals there isn't going to be some giant halo around you that lets everyone know your worth. You have to show that through things like your actions, your clothes, you charisma, etc.
Men seem to obsess over things like numbers and statistics. "If only I was 2 inches taller then I could fuck more women". They think that reaching the numbers you listed will magically give them this all access pass to sex, and it doesn't if you don't know how to capitalize on it and demonstrate it in healthy ways. I hope your message isn't lost on them in this regard.
Men get so stuck on height and dick size. The two things that you have zero way of changing with out some very expensive and risky surgery for both of them. If you dress well, lift, and starting doing fun exciting things you'll easily go into the top 20.
Height yes. But, in the real world, I've NEVER heard any guys worrying about their dick size. Maybe it's the anonymity of the internet (i.e. people don't want to tell their real world friends they have a small dick) or the average age of TRP, but Jesus Christ. Unless you have a one inch or a ten inch dick, it doesn't matter.
As far as the girls go - if they are into you, you have a big dick. When they hate your guts, you have a small one. It has nothing to do with reality.
The author of the Sex God Method admitted to having a 5" dick, yet his book teaches you how to give women mind blowing sex regardless of the size of your dick. I think the major issue is that men focus on the physical, a lot of which comes from growing up and "learning" sex from watching porn, while sex is overwhelmingly more about the emotional/mental side for women.
This. Stop obsessing about cock size. Get better at fucking. Being bigger helps, but if you focus on that you'll end up hyper focusing and forget about the more important parts of 'the game.'
100%. I remember asking a friend about this, and she said: "Do you remember exactly what each vagina looked like? We don't really care as long as he's good in bed and not abnormally small". If you are much over 7" you are going to bottom out on most girls anyways.
This is by far the most important comment here.
If you have discipline, your intelligence is above average, and your looks (face, height) are about average, then it is fairly easy to build a body and a career that puts you in the top 20% of men.
The hard bit is to achieve social dominance, that is, to have a group of "cool" friends among whom you are the quasi-leader. Or similarly, to develop a personality that lets you make friends easily and kind of "dominate" in a group of strangers that you just met.
These social skills of interacting with fellow men are of course in addition to the social skills required to talk to women and sexualise the conversation / escalate. You can be a great conversationalist as well, but it's worth jack shit if you can only talk about intellectual topics and small talk without having any sexual charge to the interaction.
As you said, the spreadsheet numbers are easy, the "soft skills" are hard
Give me an example of this. Do you know anyone like this in person (no RSD bs)? How much effort do they put into getting laid? What’s the quality of their lays?
I actually do know a guy like this. Acts cocky and confident, when he’s masking insecurity. He sleeps with a lot of women. He also has a reputation for being horrible in bed. I’ve heard at least three women talk about how he was one of the worst lays they’ve ever had, with one girl saying “all I wanted to do afterwards was leave”. Most of these girls were attractive. He’s sort of established himself as the leader of his group, has a lot of social connections. Very personable and funny guy. But something is off because women almost always regret sleeping with him, even after initially being very receptive to doing it in the first place.
How does this bloke look like
You missed the part that was important. Cocky & funny
A good body of research begs to differ
He's an attractive guy, which I think has actually worked against him in this case. Sex was much easier for him than for other guys, so he was never really forced to put any effort into it. I would guess that he never had that need to actually be good at it because he knew he could sleep with someone else the next time he went out. The downside is that women almost never sleep with him more than once, and he now has a reputation for being horrible in the sack.
That’s dope. Could u give me an example of him being cocky?
I think you're missing the point here. This guy gets laid easily, yes. But he has a terrible sex life in terms of quality. Women want to leave his place as soon as the sex is over because of how awful it is. Is that really the kind of sex and reputation you want? Anyone can memorize lines and routines and get laid. Anyone can act cocky. The issue is that it is not actually congruent with who he is. He likes the fact that he is having sex more than the actual sex. He literally sleeps with women just so he can talk about the fact that he has slept with a lot of women. It ruins his relationships, friendships, and social circles because the women feel disgusted afterward. This is exactly the type of guy you should not want to be like.
Great write up and post.
You showed this truth:
Each consecutive percentile is 1 million times harder than the last.
It's easier for a mediocre man to become top 20% than it is for a 5% man to become 1%
Natural logarithmic scale. I concur with that statement.
N count doesn't matter if she thinks your N count is high.
Next thing you know your N count IS HIGH
Go monk mode. Tell em your abstinent(don't explain monk mode). They'll try to take your new virginity.
I don't know a single hoe who wants to bang a virgin for the sake of banging a virgin
Think you missed my context. Not an actual virgin. The 1st to pop the monk mode cherry.
Do you think a girl wants a guy who is in monk mode despite the reasoning? I don't know if a girl can discern the reason a male is in monk mode, whether it's because he's taking time to focus on more important shit than simply pussy, or can't get pussy and is just using "monk mode" as an excuse. I'm not saying you're either, but I am saying I don't believe females can spot the difference. Haven't tested it though.
Nah, I'm just talking about being honest about not worrying about getting pussy for a minute or two. We call it monk mode. I've implemented some changes recently. That's my focus for now.
I've had a few show interest/chase a lil bit after "who I am seeing" gets brought up. Honesty is attractive. Who knows why, specifically, a breezy wants to be the one pop a dudes new found cherry. Validation, most likely. Opportunity, if they've been attracted/have thought about it previously.
I've spun it with humor a few times with a few different women. "You're not seeing anyone?" "Nope." "At all." "Not even a nipple tickle." "Why?" "Why worry about it?" Etc. I've had some get turned off. Had some bites. It's not a big deal to me, so it's not to some women. It is what it is.My only rule is never bring it up first.
That's true. NONE of the chicks who I lost my virginity to knew about it. Not one even suspected.
How many women have you lost your virginity to?
I think it was like six. Something like that.
Thanks bro, I didn't realise I am actually already in the top 20%.
I think the problem with a lot of these though is that women don't see the reality.
The height thing? They see tall guys they want all the time through media.
Dick size? They see big dicks in porn or hear about them constantly through music and other media.
It goes on through the other areas too.
My point being that they all want the top 5% or even 1% because that's what is shown to them on a daily basis. It doesn't matter that they don't see it in reality and only through a screen, that's still what they come to expect. They don't care that the guy hitting on them is technically in the top 20%, they have their sights aimed on the 5/1% guys.
But thanks for the lift up, bro.
In fairness, most of us would be the exact same with women.
I've already seen a comment saying "even if you're top 20% you're still not going to get the hottest girl in the room." because a top 1% guy will get her. But why should we want the hottest girl in the room? Why would we not be satisfied with a top 20% female?
What guys want: Sex with a harem of perfect 10s (think Leonardo DiCaprio and his entourage of Victoria's Secret models).
If we could live this lifesystyle, most of us would.
Guys want both quality and quantity but almost everyone settles on one or both of these dimensions.
Eventually all guys settle realizing the time and effort isn't worth the reward or simply isn't achievable.
I thought about this and I disagree. I think the vast vast majority of men are far less selective than women.
For men it's about fitting into a top bracket. For women it's more of a pass or fail test. If shes pretty and kinda cute, she passes. If she's fat and/or and ugly, she fails.
No we don't - men are much less selective than women. Not mention that beauty standard for women is easier to achieve than for men.
I completely agree with you on this. To add, the media can portray these aspects of a guy much easier than they can, say, his personality or lifestyle. Online judgements are mostly aesthetic but I think a lot of girls have trouble seeing the difference between their real life and how they expect their real life to play out.
Don't worry about that shit.. Actors are actually much shorter than they appear usually. You can't even tell how tall someone is unless they are standing next to another person. If you're a couple inches within her height range, that's fine. Tall might not even be selected for soon..
Tom Cruise is like 5' 2 and can get any woman he wants, even without money, because he has charisma. I knew plenty of tall guys who were getting zero action, and tons of shorter guys who always had girls.
Tom Cruise gets any woman he wants because of status and pretty face.
A random guy with his height will absolutely not get any woman he wants.
It's a huge difference.
Its the top 1-3% not 20%. I was easily in the top 20% in my late 30's and it meant nothing. I was Filet Mignon to single mothers and 40+ wall hitters but to the prime 27-30, never married types I was invisible. They wanted Chad or better yet trust fund Chad and that was it.
I am 31 and I am in top 20% except n-count (which should mean shit as I can always lie about it) according to OP criteria. On dating apps I'm mostly invisible. I guess OP forget to mention facial features as VERY important indicator of being in top 20%.
Or OP was talking about people who go out and approach, not people who expect to be able to order it online.
Top 20% means when you approach and aren't retarded, you don't get rejected outright for looks. It does not mean sheila's line up to throw their underwear at you.
If dating apps don't work, don't use them.
Train your neck to improve your face.
Should add Net worth, I try to "earn" as little as i can due to uncle Sam.
I've been seeing guys do this more often, care to elaborate?
Your cash stays in the business not your bank account, less gets eaten by tax.
Fuck being top 20%. I'm gonna be 100% of what I am...a nigga that don't need validation from no THOT.
Remarkably well said D'Quavis
Had a girl over a few weeks ago, she kept saying "be gentle, it's been a while since I've had sex". I pressed her for how long. Two days.
Lol heard that one a few times
According to this, I'm in the top 20% but In my opinion, alpha-ness is genetic and transcends all of these things. I know average looking guys who are short, poor, and apparently have a small dick from what I hear. Yet they are inherently attractive to girls. Some guys are just really low inhibition, high testosterone, and girls can tell instantly. If you're a tall, debt free, 72000 dollar making, long penis having beta you're still fucked when it comes to dating.
This.
I’ve noticed the change over the past year and a half on TRP. As I’ve become more assertive, dominant, and masculine, that’s all that has mattered. I looksmaxed everything but my body immediately (body in progress - 287lbs at 6’4”, 24% BF from 340 1.5 years ago) but it wasn’t until my testosterone got right (from TRT) and i started not giving a fuck what people thought of me and being unafraid to stand up for myself that women began to take notice. I’m sure as I lean out it’ll make an even bigger difference, but I can tell that even then woman wouldn’t have responded to me like they do now if I wasn’t sporting the cocky, confident personality that I wear now.
Nice job on the progress. I'm happy to hear TRT is working for you. I would love to get on roids myself but I can't justify it as my T levels are already high. It's pretty funny how we are the exact opposite. I've been reading this sub almost for the entire time it has existed. So being unplugged is old news for me, I've been a jaded motherfucker since high school.
Despite being in insane physical condition from quitting drugs, doing physical labor, and cycling all summer, I still can't get laid. It's not that I'm beta per se, but something built deep into my personality is not attractive to girls. It's like they can tell that I'm a science loving, video game playing weirdo even if I never talk about it. Sucks to have niche interests.
Shooting from the hip here, but maybe there's something deep in your personality that you think is unattractive to girls, but in reality, they wouldn't care or even notice.
Or maybe it's buried trauma?
Idk, guess I can relate.
I really don’t like to have relationships with girls to happen when I’m basically acting a part the whole time. Occasionally I meet a girl who likes me genuinely and I don’t have to force the shit out of it. But it hasn’t happened in a while.
How high are your t levels
It's all about the sample. You are talking about 80th percentile overall. But if you say all college students, or all expats, the percentile changes a lot.
So for n-count, same. If you look at girls who go to club, 25 is probably not the 92 percentile but more like the 40th lol
About Height: it would be better to check stats regarding young adults.
99% of TRP are 30- y.o., and Height changed A LOT between generations. Our grandparents were smaller and shorter than us due lots of reasons, including lack of a balanced diet and lack of medical knowledge and health services.
Yea almost all the younger 15-20 yo guys are tall then me. And some of them still have room to grow.
So to sum it up if your all this you are in the Top 20% of men correct?
If you’re 5’11’’ or above you are in the 80th percentile for height.
If you’re above 5.7 inches then you’re in the 80th percentile.
If you are 30 years old and have banged 21 women you’re in the 80th percentile
If you are 25 and have banged 16 women you’re in the 80th percentile.
If you have zero savings and no debt – you’re ahead of 85% of the population in the US
If you make $72,000 a year in the US you’re in the 80th percentile for income.
What percentile would a guy be in if he's fucked 120+ women? Or 500?
6ft is the top 20%...find real statistics instead o f nonsense
Women lie about their n count. They only count relationships and somewhat boyfriends. Anyone they one-nighted or used as a booty call / side-dude doesn’t get added into their count.
They know they’re viewed as less attractive after so many dicks have been in them. That’s why most lie about it.
I’ve had female friends (who I’m not attracted to - thus no sex) straight up TRY to lie to me even when I knew better. They can’t help it.
One last thing, when you ask a girl “how long have you been single?”, and they give some asinine response like “2 years,” please don’t think they haven’t had dick in 2 years. They’ve had plenty in that 2 years. But, they’ll gladly accept your assumption of them being untouched though.
Good write up amigo. Appreciate the research.
She got drunk one night and had 3 minutes of awkward penetration with a stranger who had no knowledge of her body, what she likes and dislikes, made zero effort to get her wet, there was a condom involved, and zero chance of orgasm for her..
Somehow I think the majority of one night stands are usually remembered much differently by women. Like a combination of Russian Roulette and a gynecologyst exam.
My point being, don't think about it too much. 10 dudes were inside her for less than an hour over the span of 2 years? You fuck her really good the third time and she won't even remember how tall they were, their names, net income, etc.. if she ever did in the first place
Didn't san francisco recently start offering $100,000 or so a year for poop-shovelers or something because they were short on them? You could be in top 20% earning doing an easy (if nasty) job.
These are some interesting benchmarks. Great post, assuming the claims are true.
However, the claim that "you're likely are ahead of the game" is false by definition if the goal is to be top 20%.
Not if 51% of the subs followers are in the top 20% already. I'd argue that a good number of people in this sub are of a competitive personality type and strive to become the best they can be. You don't hang around here unless you are constantly looking for ways to improve, and that attitude in itself puts you far ahead of most of the pack. That being said, if you're here then you probably are competing enough that these life metrics are far more easily attainable than you thought. For instance, my n-count is 22 and I figured it should be around 50 for me to be in the top 20% at my age.
LOL. Are you forgetting this is a forum created by sexually frustrated men, who couldn't get laid?
People come here cus they have problems with women, THEN stay for the self improvement and memes.
its maslows hierarchy.
I think it's a mix of men frustrated by Western women for various reasons, not all of which involve not being able to get laid.
High SMV men who spin plates are not worried about women what so ever
Until they lose custody of their kids to a homeless alcoholic bipolar c*nt who didn't start out that way.
No, I'm not forgetting. I considered that to be an attempt at self improvement. Granted, the ones that stick around for other reasons are the ones that are likely close to or already hitting the OPs benchmarks. At least, that's what I would guess.
Where do you get to live on such a salary in San Francisco?
In a mobile home
The problem is that if you're not in the top 20% with the qualities you can show her, it doesn't really matter if you're in the top 1% beneath the surface.
I think it's more a weighted than a standard average.
I am 5'5'' and my penis is 5.4 inches. N-count at 23 is 6. I'm the top 20% of debt and earnings.
I have no control over my height and penis length, which means I'll forever be handicapped against other men in those aspects. How am I supposed to accept this and prevent it from bringing down my self-esteem?
Not focusing on them? By going the natural path of self-improvement(meditation, lifting, reading etc.) you will realise that you don't need to worry about that shit.
I lift and read, and will likely start meditation soon. I agree that I should not focus on them, but it's really really hard when I'm surrounded by people taller than me.
E.g. I approached a few girls in a club last week, got immediately rejected by all of them. Then some very tall and muscular guy walked in, and I could see one of the girls that rejected me literally not being able to take her eyes off him. She approached him and they left together.
That kind of shit fucks me up, as no matter how much I lift I'll never be able to match those body types.
Even if I have incel-like thoughts at times, I don't want to be an incel. I'll keep trying and self-improving until I can, giving up is not an option.
Stop going to clubs and go to the grocery store instead.. Everyone's gotta eat. Not everyone goes to the clubs. I bet that 7 foot guy is not approaching at the grocery store, but you are. She'll think you must have a giant dick to pull that off.. And once it's in, you won.
Clubs are designed for to give 98% of the population anxiety so they'll buy overpriced drinks.
The hot girls get to strut, Chad's get laid, and the owners get paid.
Keep grinding, and find an environment where height doesn't matter.
How'd you manage to get 6 girls by 23?
I'm 36, 5'5 and my n-count is 2 :(
My penis is bigger than yours but I make far less money. Want to trade?
The only thing this guys post did was make me feel more depressed.
Met one at uni, one while traveling, the rest from Tinder.
I know it sucks but crying over it doesn't change anything. We both are greatly disadvantaged because of our height, but we have no control over it. Better suck it up and keep grinding
Bruh mine is 46 at 21. You can't get depressed about it, that doesn't help. Be confident, even if it's just pretend. Fake it till you make it applies here too.
Congrats?
How confident do you think you'd be if you didn't even lose your virginity till you were 22 like what happened with me?
You know who else lost their virginity at 22? Hugh Hefner. I shit you not. Did he let it stop him? fuck no..
You gotta give yourself perspective every once in a while.. You could be in a wheelchair, but you can walk. You could be deaf, but you have the blessing of hearing music. You could be blind, but you can see beauty.
You could have banged ten girls in your teens and got one pregnant and two std's... Do you feel lucky now?
It's really tough dealing with something you can't change. You can improve your body, make more money by working hard, but you can't change your height or penis-size. It's always been a huge burden for me too, considering my penis size is even slightly smaller than yours, and i'm 5'9". Used to be extremely shy even being naked in locker-rooms. Thing is, you just have to accept it and try not to think about it. Don't act insecure, that's what girls notice. My N-count is around 13 at 26. I've never had any girls complain about my penis, but then again, i guess it's extremely rare if a girl would actually bring that up, that's just rude. I have no doubt some girls i've been with have thought that though. But some of the girls i've slept with have wanted more, so surely it can't be that bad? I've begun thinking that if a girl doesn't want to be with me because of the size of my dick, then she's a shallow bitch and i dodged a bullet.
Surprise surprise, you can change your penis size and height.
I guess you mean wearing taller shoes? Already do that. I also guess you mean gelching my dick or something? Read there are a lot of possible negative aspects by doing that.
I am not talking about jelqing. There are devices that can be used. No need to jelq.
By not basing your self esteem on comparison with others. Self esteem is an idea in your own head. You make it what you want.
Here is why I think this is a poor post. You’re putting comparison to cohorts that are generally not part of our competition. For example; someone may be in the top 20% of the country in terms of income, but those other people who make way less are not competing for the same resources as the person who is in the top 20%. An obese guy in his mid 50s with diabetes who makes 40k/ year is not your competition for the hot 20-something slut. Just like the Astoria-Waldorf Hotel does not consider Motel 6 it’s cimpetition. They’re not going for the same end-consumer. Astoria-Waldorf wants billionaires to stay in its building. Motel 6 wants the lower-middle class family on their way to Disney World to stay.
I live in NYC and make what you’d consider in the top 10% of the country. But neither my lifestyle nor the type of girls I tend to fuck would make you think that. That’s because my competition are young celebrities, entrepreneurs, trust fund babies. Those are the people who are going for the 9s and 10s that I want.
So while your post does put things into perspective, I think it’s disingenuous to make anyone here think that “they’re not doing that bad”. They have to realize that on the red pill, we’re nkt going for scraps. We’re trying to fuck the hottest girls, not those who just have a vagina. Subsequently our competition is different and we may in fact not be in the 20% of the relavent cohort we’re comleting against. Just my 2 cents.
Do you make 10% in NYC? Can't really compare making something like 6 figures to 6 figures in Kansas or whatever. But you are right on the other stuff, being 20% in something puts you ahead but it depends on competition. It's a little bit harder to be 20% on Tinder than in real life but it's still pretty fuckin easy.
Is the N-count really that important? What if you generally don't give a fuck on how many girls someone has beded? Because I really don't give a fuck
One red pill principle I never agreed with: Go and fuck as many girls as you can before settling down. *after bedding 70 women 10 years later * Huh?? Where are all the good girls at? Where the fuck is my Virgin bride??
I think you mean guys your girl been with? In any case it's only a problem if everyone knows your girl was a whore and if you're girl is holding back sex, making you wait giving you boring sex when she most likely didn't for all the other guys she's banged.
Those are the two main reasons why n count matters. Other reasons are subjective, such as pair bonding and shit like that.
You have somewhat of a point here, but I still feel you're looking at it wrong. No one is saying to fuck as many girls as possible. I mean you can if that's what you want to do.
What is being said is you don't want to be the guy that has only been with two women while getting with a chick who's been around. Because if that's the case, you are basically cucking yourself.
The spinning plates thing comes into play because most people here preach against ltrs. So spinning plates is the alternative.
Is cucking yourself the issue here? I always assumed that the whole point of learning game and fucking lots of chicks was to blow up the illusion that women are special.
With so much effort and time killing the beta, or atleast morphing into something better. I believe that, the lessons we learned but dont fully comprehend would become internalized and more satisfying, then finding the perfect woman. Lessons like you are the prize, and the importance of self love.
Its hard to care about how the woman treats me, when i understand it was me, to have failed to set boundaries, and failed to spot bad behavior due to fantasizing the woman and situation at hand.
And its hard to waste energy caring about if i am good enough for her when, i realize how much time i wasted not taking care of myself and my own family and friends.
Im not pretending to have figured it out. Im actually asking, is it more important to develop game and self actualization in order to have the tools needed to destroy neediness and be able to control ones situation moreso than if one didn't learn game?
Or is that just another western ideal that builds ones ego and distracts us from whats really important, the fact that you can only control how you react to the chaos. The fact that we as humans are 9nly for ourselves and not for all people, and that we're not actually free or trying to obtain freedom.
Sorry if this sounds stupid guys, normally i would write this out, realuze how far gone i sound and delete it. But im leaving this up. Thanks for reading.
I think something that needs to be mentioned is that if you don't fix your internal problems, fucking a thousand different women won't make you "happy" or more accurately, fulfilled. It's just overcompensating for something that's missing. Like trying to fill a bucket of water with a hole in it.. More water won't fix the bucket.
There's also something called narcissistic supply, and I think it's relevent because everyone has some degree of narcissism and these forum probably draw more of that crowd. Narcissistic supply is the good feelings we are able to pull from others' praise and validation.. Once that goes away there's not much left and the person crumbles to where they were before, and even lower. There is no self esteem built on real connection, just ego.
Bride? What bride? Who the fuck is getting married? This isn't a red pill principle, gov.
True fair enough. Replace Virgin bride with Virgin girlfriend
You say you really dont give a fuck about # of partners someone has had but say where the fuck is my virgin bride. I thought you didnt care?
Sometimes it's hard to spot sarcasm. But this one should be obvious.
being in the top 20% of 50% of the worlds population 100% of the time... 40% of the time it works every time
The Debt statistics is misleading. You can be doing well and have debt. A doctor buying a house is going to be in debt.
Of course, it depends on the situation, but still, probably the majority of people are more fucked financially than you think.
I'm not denying that. I'm just saying that the number doesn't take into account responsible debt.
Not all debt is bad which is what statistic seems to claim.
I assume the statistic is personal, consumer debt rather than business debt.
You're right. I think more relevant would be debt:future equity ratio or debt:future earnings for student debt but that is less concrete than total debt.. I am in debt 40k for my house which is worth 65k now and will appreciate over the next ten years as well.. I could have bought a vehicle for the same price and it be worth 8-10k in 10 years. Or racked up 40k in vacations and meals and have nothing to show for it
I'm no stats guy but I imagine if you're in the top 20% for all of these you would be well into the top 20% of males overall.
Not necessarily, in either direction. This also leaves out important things like reputation, social prowess.
Uh, thanks for pointing out how bad off I am.
The only thing that I'm in the 'top 20%' of is dick size, and it's not even 7 inches. Regardless it's the most useless one as it doesn't help me get laid.
This makes me feel a lot better. lol
Easily top 20% in everything but debt. And probably body fat.
This is the reddest pill in this post
None of this helps if you're an ugly fucker though...
I'm in the 95+ percentile is basically every metric except height (5'5"). Everything else I've accomplished barely makes up for that. It's pretty upsetting.
Unless my ruler is not being truthful with me, I beg to differ.
TIL that I’m in the Top 20% for all these metrics except height (5’10”)
I'm 100% sure the earnings will improve over time, but I doubt the N-count will.
Then it won't. Plus, quality > quantity.
Seems like the take away is that I should migrate to the US.
Did you measure my peepee while I slept Atti?
Great post. Really puts things into perspective.
I meet all this criteria, except at the moment, I’m no longer making over 72k......and I never get laid.
Apparently I'm the perfect guy? Damnit man. Now I'm thinking my girlfriend isn't good enough
Those figures are way below than one could imagine. Thanks for this post.
do you have sources you can link to for these analyses? especially the N-Count bit
Pareto’s Principle makes it to the Red Pill! Awesome!
Do you really think that for casual hookup things such as earnings and debt matters?
Blackpill no.1: Most of you who believe you are in the top 20%, are not
Blackpill no.2: Your looks (face + SMV) make up 80% of your SMV
Blackpill no.3: 5'11 is barely above manlet-tier in 2018. The younger generation is getting taller and taller. I'm 27, 6 ft and routinely bump into girls that are 5'10 and above.
If I am 5'9 but 5'10 in lifts can I still say 6 foot?
6'2
200lbs around 13% BF ( looking to get to around 10%)
N-Count: You wouldn't believe me if I told you. I don't believe it myself.
Finance is where I fall way way way behind. Goal is to break 70k, then 100k in the next 5 years.
This was a very interesting read.
"When you look at all the people out in front of you, think of all the ones behind you." - Seneca
Key take away point:
-personal finance
-good ROI credential for good price
-solid discipline
-network and experience.
Wrong. 6-3/8" bone-pressed length and 5-1/8" circumference puts you in the top 20%
http://howlongismyschlong.com/
Not quantifiable, but I guarantee it's the same for grooming. I'd bet that well over half the kale population have some combination of patchy facial hair, unflattering clothes, and messy or unstylish hair.
I say strive for the top 5%
humans like round numbers.
so, for europe, "minimum" male height required by women is 180 cm (5′ 10.8661″) (on tinder, irl they can't estimate properly so there's more leeway), although a portion of short women still call 175cm+ "tall" because they are shorter.
185-190 cm is considered "hot" tall (6 Feet 0.83465" - 6 Feet 2.803")
I don’t know what Europe you’re talking about, but 185 is average there. “Hot” starts from 190. 180 is short.
It’s not 1950s anymore, the nutrition has changed drastically.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_average_human_height_worldwide
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/maps-and-graphics/the-tallest-and-shortest-countries-in-the-world/
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/35988-New-map-of-average-male-body-height-in-Europe-the-Middle-East-and-North-Africa
https://www.express.co.uk/travel/articles/974402/tallest-people-in-the-world-average-height-netherlands
You aren't competing with newborns and 90 years old, my Internet statistics genius. It's about the average height of a young adult male, not the national average.
then show better data sources, rather than writing witty lines. I'm not afraid of you, I'm 25 meters tall, because back in my country we don't eat poor people's food, so we evolved a little more than you.
Depends on what country, but no... maybe the Netherlands or the nordic countries. Not even in Germany as a 180, height is absolutely not a problem. If you're 170 just go to Spain, you'll feel right at home.
I haven't been to Spain, but whenever I travel in Europe, virtually every male under 50 is taller than 180.
im not tall but about 7 inches and pretty girthy. alot of girls comment on it but not all of them are size queens. which is why i prefer thicker girls
I'm fucked, beneath the 80th percentile on the 2 factors that are out of my control.
While I think these are great points it's also worth considering that you should compare yourself to the percentile of the environment you are in.
Let's disregard the inherant attribute that are unchangable such as height. Its easy to call yourself the 80th percentile in fitness when most of America are pigs and don't know what a calorie and never visit a gym. Compare yourself to the people sourrounding you.
It's easy to be 80th percentile compares to greater America but I can guarantee you won't be that high up in a club or gym environment.
While this is a great post all I want to convey is don't stagnate and keep comparing yourself to peers and pushing yourself to your greatest potential.
To all the dudes that are discouraged by these stats: Yes some people are dealt genetic pocket aces and some 7-2... But it's way more satisfying to bluff a win with a shit hand than winning the blinds pre-flop. Keep improving what you can and win as much as you can with what you've been dealt.
does it count interest free 1 month lagging credit card balance? because if it does it's a pretty meaningless stat
You can be top 20% in everything, but if your face is the bottom 20%, then you're invisible. Face is the number 1 thing.
In San Francisco if you make 100k a year you qualify for food stamps. I know people who live in NYC who make 6 figures and seem like they're barely scraping by.
7-8 figures a year is ideal.
if you can hold frame and with women your in the top 20%
8 1/2”
31yo 50+ partners.
Interesting thing is girls don’t know anything about your size or performance prior to being in bed with you. But somehow they know.
I'm 6', 8 and 70K I guess I crush that 80 percentile with that second number ;-D
6ft tall
6in+ dick
no debt
n-count 50 at age 24, 20 at age 20
does that mean I can have all the girls now?
it means you should up your standards
My standards are way higher than most people here who to to the club to meet girls
I'm pointing out that having a high n number doesn't mean shit regardless no girl is like oh wow you fucked a lot of girls so hot
Great comparisons & benchmarks regardless of anyones red pill status.
I mean girls brains don't really calculate based on statistics, they calculate based on emotion. This stuff is great for self-improvement and to increase your own QOL, but you can be homeless and get 10x more women than a socially retarded billionaire.
4 out of 5 - and by a nice margin :)
I'm only missing on earnings... but I'm working on it...
ps.
sometimes I forget now lucky I am with my genetics...
Just here to brag.... that notch count will go up exponentially when you get close to 30. Man, I don't know how to explain it - young guys, you can literally feel you SMV start to ramp up. Even if there's nothing objectively different about yourself.
Damn, not gonna lie I like this survey.... 6'2" ,7.9inches, 40-50 girls (lost count, more if you count random HJs and bar make outs) savings to live for 2 years without working, earnings = total shit tho, just good at living below my means and getting tons of free clothes, food, cleaning, movies etc from plates LOL...
Fuck it feels good to be in my 30s and freeloading off 20yr old girls with their parent's money
40-50 girls is not even high. I know plenty with a 200+ count, and I haven't heard them brag yet.
I believe that unbiased N-count is the prime metric for someone to estimate how alpha male he is. By "unbiased" I mean native performance prior TRP/PUA exposure. However YMMV based on place, country, race, society bias, et cetera, so take the results with a grain of salt
Below are statistics https://totalsororitymove.com/is-my-number-of-sex-partners-normal/
and calculator http://www.slate.com/articles/life/moneybox/2015/05/sex_history_calculator_is_your_number_of_sexual_partners_low_average_or.html?via=gdpr-consent
*edited : Do not count any trashy whore below 6/10, that you may have banged on a drunk head
I just ran the #s out of curiosity. Not sure I trust this website. Apparently a chick who's had sex with 3 guys at 21 and a chick who's had sex with 3 guys at 35 are only 10 percentile points apart... a.k.a. this calculator is trying to say that four fifths of the girls who have 3 partners at 21 do not ever have another partner. Yeah, okay.
Or maybe the dark AWALT meaning is that low partner count girls all partner up, and the available sluts are bad options.
But I'm going to go with that the calculator is broken or relies on unreliable data. Maybe all girls just say 3 as their default.
The calculator I posted is just a sampler, but gives some clues, especially for men. Women usually downplay the n-count, and as one guy above said, they often claim "one occasional time doesn't count". Is she see 10 random dicks in one-night stands she still label herself as single and "almost" virgin. And that is almost true from her perspective, since she can get all these dick effortlessly.
Contrary, for man every single occasion matter very much, especially the first dozen.. They are the hardest one and the most blood and sweat is shed for this dozen.
Being in the top 20% doesn’t mean being in the top 20% of the entire male population as that would include ugly ass poor social retard males as well. Being in the top 20% means being near the top of males that women would even acknowledge. Women don’t count any guy under a 7/10 so you have to be at least a 9/10.
Any guy that has improved themself a lot would know this. When you get called a 6/10 you still get literally no attention from women, maybe 1 match a day on tinder if that. Go up to 8/10 now you get some attention and like 5 matches on tinder a day. As soon as you get closer to 9/10, ripped body with at least 4-5 years of lifting the attention you get increases significantly.
For reference I now get called on avarage a 9/10 by women. I’m 6’1, lifting for 4 years, 180 pounds pretty lean with an attractive face. A progress picture of mine got like 7000 upvotes on reddit with hundreds of comments complimenting my attractiveness and I get around 25 matches a day on tinder. I would say I’ve just now got into the top 20% of applicable males because as I’ve said above women don’t regard average guys to even be in the spectrum so it is skewed up
This explains why I never had problems getting laid with some thot on tinder and they always said my cock was huge. LoL.