Here is the thing. Everyone in society nowadays is giving you shit no matter what you do or who you are. Your boss at work might ask you to cover someone else's position while he and the absentee be chilling at home. Your roommate might ask you to close the lights or clean the floor while s/he is talking on their phone. Even the bureaucrat might ask you to wait for another hour or come the next week whereas s/he could clearly finish the task in a few seconds.
It doesn't matter what the situation is: everyone is giving you shit. And not because they dislike you or are planning your demise, but because it's a game of power and some are addicted to it. It's like chess but the difference is that it's cloaked in social interaction, embellished with immaculate courtesy and dressed in soothing tones and beautiful smiles.
It is so subtle and invisible, that everyone falls for it. It is deeply rooted in our behaviour, as in ancient times it distinguished the leader from the follower and the strong from the weak. It is us and there is no running away from it. That is our nature and that is how we do things. When you give someone shit and that person complies, it gives us a sense of security and balance. That's why it's necessary.
Let's clear up some fog before we delve deeper in the topic. What do I exactly mean by “people giving you shit?” I mean bothering you by requests they could do themselves or giving you a hard time for no particular reason. The latter can come in many different forms and shapes.
There is a difference between someone who's in dire need for help and is genuinely asking for it, and someone who just relishes seeing you doing the stuff for them. There is a difference between someone with whom you had history and they’re dissing you, and someone you’ve just met and is trying to make you feel uncomfortable.
You didn’t do/say anything wrong, but they still give you shit, nonetheless.
You may wonder what’s the reason behind doing this? Or how “ in ancient times it distinguished the leader from the follower ”? Here is my answer.
Giving shit to someone is an attempt to build authority over that someone. It is one pitiful attempt to put your psychological composure to the test and see if you’re confident enough or solid to take it in and not let it break you. Or better yet, see if you can flip it on their faces and come out triumphed.
There are always two opponents in this game: you and the individual who's giving you shit. What's at stake? The overall dominance of the interaction.
Shit is irrational. If you think about it, especially on the spot, you'll end up with a "Wait, what?" face because it comes so sudden.
When s/he is clearly able to do the request YET you complied, that shows that you have no confidence to stop him/her later on, that s/he can walk all over you and you'll just sit there looking at them while they're cleaning their shoes on you. Some people are so smart with this that they would start small and then gradually but steadily increase the intensity of their stinking shit until you can't handle it anymore. If you've played the game right up until that point, i.e holding your frame and staying calm, you'd finally break down and transgress the boundaries of respect, i.e fight with them. If you've been a f***-up from the beginning then congratulations. You've officially promoted yourself to his/her "Bitch". Now s/he can do/say whatever s/he wants and you can't do anything about it because s/he is already all over you.
In other words, s/he has established power over you little by little which eventually overwhelmed your whole existence altogether. So if you're in this situation, here is my first tip and advice:
LEAVE.
Vanish. Don't say a word, don't fight with them or do anything stupid. Appreciate the game, appreciate the winners, learn from your mistakes and bid them farewell.
That’s it. There is nothing worse than being stuck with someone who can play with you the way they like. You’re the only one who decides what happens with your life and most importantly YOU’RE IN CONTROL.
So the question that raises itself is, how do you handle someone’s shit?
Here is the short answer: reject it.
Here’s the long answer:
When someone is giving you shit, always remember that they’re giving you a CHOICE. A choice to either COMPLY or REJECT it.
In the case of random requests that people give they can as well do themselves, simply smile and refuse. Give them a straight blatant, “No? I can’t do that, I’m afraid?”
Don’t tell them to get the job done themselves or whatever because if you do that, they already know that they got you. Now they know how to make you angry and they can use that against you in the future. Remember, it’s all about appearances.
Humans are driven by the visual more than the abstract. One picture contains thousands of words. If you look at a picture of a cup of tea, for example, you could instantly tell the place it was shot in, the type of coffee, whether it’s hot or cold depending on the steam coming from it….etc.
They will keep that in mind for future requests and situations. So second tip is: always APPEAR chill. Never get worked up over it. It was just some desperate shitty move from their part to put your frame to the test and you dodged it brilliantly. Smile it away and continue doing whatever you were doing like it never happened.
If someone is attacking you personally for no particular reason, then also ignore it. Don’t let it get through to you and take it personally. They don’t hate you. It’s just a game. They’re doing that because on a deep psychobiological level, they just want to have fun. When someone gives this type of shit, just look at them like “Wtf?” and move on. Let the shit fly for hours until it hits your radar.
They are looking for your attention, and your attention is way too precisious to be locked on their worthless asses. By doing this, they have already lost the battle before it even begins.
If they keep giving you shit constantly all the time, just always remember to not let breakdown under their pressure and give up what they want: you frekaing out.
I mean, of course, you can always accept their invitation to join the game lobby and start playing back and forth, You can always make them feel like shit by flipping the pressure on them at any moment and attack with your shit. But when you do that, you committed yourself to their pathetic game and they won’t stop until they finally get you or you get them. If you’re willing to play then have fun in there.
But I wouldn't really recommend that. Tried it once and some of them just don't get tired. Some of them been doing this for years and are really good at it so don't try to match them up. Just act like they don't exist and move on.
So what have you learnt so far from this post?
- Playing the game is a always a CHOICE
- REJECT joining their game and keep doing what you're doing
- Hold your frame and never lose composure to whatever shit they're throwing at you
And voila. I hope that will help you in future situations to not be walked all over.
Good luck out there and peace!
People give shit. But it's your choice whether to accept it or not. Put yourself in a position to say fuck it, fuck off and fuck you.
This actually could make a TL;DR. Thanks for the comment mate.
The Position of Fuck You (John Goodman in The Gambler)
You're the best marcopoloman!
What I don't understand is why there are a few people who don't give shit to me or anyone else. I watch them and they seem to operate outside of the eternal social fray. Neither leaders nor followers. Never dominant, never challenged and so never seen submitting. I love those people and get along so well with them. And I wonder why more people aren't like them
I understand what you're talking about. I've met this kind of people before.
I think it all depends on how people perceive you. At some post in the sidebar, I read that the more "alpha" you look ad behave, the harder it becomes for you to interact with other people. But it makes sense that if you appear hostile, of course people won't be kind to you and would give you shit at every turn.
But the kind of people you talk about are those that are not perceived as enemies nor friends. When I was beta to the brim, I used to smile at everyone and never get mad at anyone if they gave me a kind of body language cue that they don't like me and shit. I was kinda passive and people perceived as the nice guy who must not be given shit cuz why? What's the fun in it?
And then there is a friend of mine who lifts and looks hostile enough. I mean he's kind, but still looking more dangerous than me, like large jaw lines and straight posture. This guy is given shit in whatever the fuck he's doing. Even at the grocery store, he told me that people are looking at him in a very bad way just for being himself. Like he didn't really talk or did anything to them, they just gave him shit for who he is.
So those that you're talking about are a healthy dose of the two. But I believe that if people give you shit means that they notice you and want to disover you.
I'm interested in your point about you vs. your intimidating friend both being targeted differently. I think that, to an extent, if people see someone who appears too alpha, they want to try to bring that person down to their level and 'reduce' him. They see a strong person as a threat to their own status, so they try to undermine his ego.
Yeah its the hierarchy. People are always testing their place in it and trying to move up. Jordan Peterson baby.
Interesting, I either get a lot of shit or bad looks from people or a lot of respect, there’s no in between. I’m 6 ft, 190, muscular I walk with my head held high and a sense of pride I guess I’m comfortable in myself. People always tell me I look like I’m going to kick somebody’s ass, or I walk too fast, take too big strides etc. I smile at people sometimes it just don’t acknowledge them. Some people I hit it off great with and others it’s just a shit war or they act almost scared of me and I don’t try to intimidate people I’m just being me and confident in me or so I think. Does any of this sound like I’m doing something wrong? Is it just I’m around a bunch of shit talking betas that aren’t comfortable in their skin that want to try to bully me for being comfortable?
Frame hack this.
Use Dale Carnegie. Talk to everyone. Approach everyone.
People will tend to bond with those they can relate with and find some commonality. If someone is the same gender, race, age, from the same social status, the same college, the same kind of career path, etc, odds are those two people will feel comfortable with each other.
The reality is most people aren't thinking about you. Most of the time it's a cursory judgement for how useful you can be to them.
Sometimes being ignorant is oddly the best defense. I know a guy who probably had slight Aspergers. Real struggle to understand social nuance. So sometimes people would jab at him, or roll their eyes and he'd stand there and ignore it and keep talking. He didn't understand they were fucking with him, so he just came off as IDGAF. What they felt was irrelevant to him.
Talking to everyone establishes social proof.
Guy at my gym is in the yoga class. Only guy. I lift with him sometimes. Ex Con. They don't know that. But he's got a hard jaw, ripped and tatted up. Before class he takes that spray bottle with the cleanser and the provided towel and cleans off the mats for everyone before class starts. Just walks right up, sprays it, wipes it and moves on. To some it would look supplicating or subservient, but interesting enough he's really not giving anyone a choice. I've seen him do it, sometimes there's underlying tension there. The old ladies love him.
As stated before, no single act is Alpha or Beta, it's the context in how it's done and the situation.
Sometimes perception is harder than reality. Most people don't care. But they are by default shitty entitled narcissistic assholes, esp if they are Americans. If you approach them and talk to them, you will find out.
I should say that I found your comment to be very very interesting, man. And I agree with you 100% that context has a lot to do with the perception of act as alpha or beta or whatever category out there.
But besides that there's something that matters probably as much as the context and that is... Your look. I mean, if you were, for example, fat or chubby or wearing old rags that look like shit on you, never really expect people to respect you or even pay fucking attention to you.
I've experimented with this. Here are a few examples.
1 year ago I was chubby af and my face was round and ugly. I had a shitty haircut and everything about me was screaming beta. Not only girls, but everyone I meet was either nice to me or if they are out my reach, they'd straight look down on me and ignore me entirely until I prove myself.
A few months ago, I was coming back from the gym wearing my old shorts and t-shirt, and was waiting for the bus at the station. A jacked guy wearing a buttoned shirt with some hangers attached to his pants and an expensive watch was there. I approached him and asked him about time. The motherfucker ignored me 3 times until he literally just extended his arm and showed me the watch without saying a word.
When it comes to girls... Maaaàaaaaan. The difference is so blatant. Since I lost weight, my face has become much slimmer and better. My jaw lines are visible and everything is OK. I don't look great, I'm probably a 6-7, but holly fuck do I get many many more IOIs from girls than before. Sometimes, I don't even have to do shit. I say hi and she's already blushing and laughing to herself.
So looks have something to do with the perception of who you are I would say. Like if you look decent, you can basically have a positive experience with this. If you look like you don't care about your own wellbeing, people will just ignore you.
Also the point about people having commonalities to be getting along with each other; I don't think that that's completely true and it really depends on the individual's personality. I'm positive that those for example with liberal political inclinations tend to like different... Fuck man it's a long topic xD Maybe I'll write a blog about it. Send a message if interested!
That's pretty weird because lifting, looking strong and being friendly at the same time and also being humble, make people love the shit out of you and wants to hang out with you in every turn, listen to your opinions and make it easy for you really as long as you smile and be humble. Its absolutely strange to me that people would give you shit for being yourself, unless of course you act like a self entitled teenager whose just beeeing himself then in that case, take shit.
Not sure if you've come across the term "hyoergamy" before or not, but what it says basically, according to the menstrual cycle, women behave differently in terms of mate selection. They switch between two strategies.
Now that's a metaphor that extends to the sexual market place and its different interactions, but my goal is, when it comes to girls, it seriously depends on her mood which is in turn affected by so many factors. Some biological as stated above, and some are totally different have to do with her wellbeing and shit. Maybe she's depressed or angry at something? She's a fucking human being after all.
So if she's during her ovulation, she'd be so fucking hostile to you and she'd try to manipulate you psychologically by releasing doublethinks all the time. Is she into you? Is she not? What's with the shittests? That's putting your frame to the test.
But if she's receptive and compliant and you can feel she's being quite emotional with whatever the fuck you're saying, then she's probably in her last last days of menstrual cycle.
But when it comes to guys, guys just envy you and feel jealous because you're doing much better than them. Some of them score high on being agreeable, so they wouldn't really be that hostile towards you, but those who score low will fuck you up in whatever you're doing.
This sounds like my few close friends. They’re MGTOW in a way but not as a result of lack of success with women and dating. They just never had interest in the popularity/social ladder games. They have no desire to marry or have a stellar career or provide for a family even, but just to enjoy life and sort of drift along while maintaining a composure of social competency in the world.
I kind of fit into this category. I’ve always been far more interested in understanding/building things and observing the world from the outside than actually engaging in the social games everyone likes to play. It’s inefficient bullshit. People should decide what they want, tell that to everyone, and everyone should rationally negotiate how best to achieve that outcome.
The world doesn’t work like that. People want to box you in as a character in their own little egotistical narratives. I know how to negotiate a good character for myself and weave my own little story into whatever story they’ve built up, I just don’t like doing it.
Didn't MGTOW originally start with successful redpillers being fed up with playing the game? If you can't get laid and then proclaim "you never wanted to in the first place", that makes you an incel playing sour grapes. If you can easily get laid and come to the conclusion that chasing pussy isn't worth it, that makes you MGTOW.
IMO you can't just "join" MGTOW unless you've experienced the redpill lifestyle.
thats a very good point that really should be made into some kind of canon. MGTOW is not the same as being an incel, the same as you cant be in rehab if you were never an addict, or can't be a veteran if you were never in the military.. its a stage of an evolution and just because at the end of the day you might not be getting laid, theres a biiiig difference between the two situations of not being able to get laid, or choosing not to spend effort on it.
I think this may be me. A lot of this info here is awesome and worth a lot, but I feel that I don’t fall into the general categories that most people here talk about.
I look for shit and shit tests, but I don’t get them that frequently. People generally like me and I usually never have to deal with shit or altercations.
I appreciate this as I don’t often have to deal out shit (like you said) and can just enjoy a relatively shit-free life.
Interesting outlook
You'd think I was in the minority, given the post, but I rarely give anyone shit and only do it either unintentionally or out of reciprocity. Could be because no one gives it to me or because I've almost always found it strategically advantageous to cooperate over compete. I probably qualify as one of these types.
Very interesting point you make!! I can bet that you have more of the body language, looks and attitude of a cooperator than that of a competitor or other lone wolf. This is seemingly an evolutionary sign for people under a leader to detect an intruder. You can only get their full approval and backing in social network by overturning a majority vote in popularity or likeability. And we all know the more handsome, the more likeable and agreeable and less of damages you would get over anybody else.
Studies have proven cooperation to be a more successful game theoretical behavior than competing. Also proven is that being beautiful reduces juristical sentences and even increases the loan compared to the lower quantiles.
This means: People have a natural instinct to make beautiful people popular and individuals have the urge to "own" beautiful people, no matter the cost. This results in people giving all other people they see a chance to be over socially "a negative touch", so that they are tainted for other individuals to notice and repeat and enforce this "social memory".
Good looking Alpha is attractive, ugly Alpha is intimidating.
i think i understand what you mean.
i shall go in-depth bc i think i qualify as this person.
i RARELY tell me what to do if i can do it myself. i’ll just do it. i hate telling people what to do if i can easily do it myself.
this stems from my dad. my dad always tells me what to do. every single time. even if i know, he will still tell me. bugs the fucking shit out of me. i hate it. so, i never do it to anyone else. i don’t want to be annoying like my dad, in that respect.
Would these be the "Omegas"?
Though I put it to you; If you're not dealing with shit from other people, are you really striving to be the best version of you?
This is definitely true across the board if you’re in an idealized state where you don’t need anything from anyone. If you’re independently wealthy from birth with built in bitches sucking at the teat, or if you’ve created it by becoming self made, then you can do all of this.
Sad truth is that most of us need something from someone (money, good job, social position) and have to get it by working and negotiating with others and yes taking some degree of shit. The main thing is to make sure you’re getting the better part of the negotiation or at least a fair break.
When it comes to women, there are so many of them that you should truly take this approach period. Take no shit from a woman. If she gives you shit, then do what Jimi Hendrix says to do in the song Red House and just fuck her sister.
Really good post. I needed to read some of this. Thanks.
Do you know of any books on this subject? Or thought leaders?
I found out a previously best friend of mine is a sadist and has been destroying my relationships for years. Made secret facebook groups and fake profiles, photoshopped me in images. Persuaded a girl to accuse me of attempted rape for a while - until she stopped then denied ever having done it. Destroyed my relationship with an LTR when he found out her name.
It took me a long time to piece it together. I felt crazy at first. WHY would someone do this? I only even cut all contact with him 6 months ago.
I've never done anything to this guy, he just enjoys this and finds it fun. More than a few people have told me they believe he is "evil". They laugh saying it - it sounds ridiculous - but they say they mean it. Cutting contact has made it easier as he has less angles of attack now. He escalated a little for a few months but now has moved onto fucking with other people's lives and careers.
I fully agree that you never go into battle with these people. Its what they DREAM about. They get dopamine and rewards from hurting people and inflicting emotional pain or humiliation. If you play their game they will beat you every time. A 25 year old has been playing it since they were 5 - that makes them an expert. If you DO beat them at your own game: congrats they will tell everyone about the "sadistic" stuff you have been doing and destroy your reputation.
They will happily destroy both your life and their own as they feel more positives/dopamine from hurting you than they do from their own success.
I'm speaking from a ton of previous experience with shitty friends. It's highly likely that you probably became friends with that person because they're super fun to hang out with and not because you had deep conversations to truly know the guy on a ground level. So as a result, he starts doing this shit and you get blindsided because you didn't really know the guy to begin with.
Thats half true. I have known psychopaths/sociopaths where that is fully true. This guy is not really a psychopath or sociopath or narcissist though. He is a machiavellian sadist. He would share some of his past.
One tell that might be useful: He was extremely closed about his relationships. When planning events where 5 people were attending he would always list everyone except his girlfriend. I found it so bizarre. It was like that for years.
It was only much later I realised why he did it - he was projecting himself onto others so therefore presumed people would use details from his relationships to destroy them.
What the hell? My TRP journey so far has been seeing every single one of my past experiences through the lenses of a mature individual, which is great. This post really struck me, especially at the really fun to hang out part. I've always had this gut feeling this friend of mine was no good deep down, but always ignored 'cause fun and new girls. How can someone like that not be a sociopath?
Trust your gut. Millions of years of evolution and pattern-matching is hardwired into you. Your gut will warn you of something very complex that you do not even understand. It might take you years to even figure out what your gut was warning you about.
The number of people who say "I wish I trusted my gut" is 100x the number of people who say "My gut gave me a red flag and I trusted it but regretted it".
I could ask you for "tells" that reveal his hidden motivations. However I know that when I was asked this question (about a psychopath, not BPD/NPD/HPD which are very obvious) it was extremely difficult to answer. In fact the answer you give makes you sound crazy. They are very good and motivated at covering it up.
Here's a great person to emulate
"You say rude things about me into gulag you go"
Ouch. Sorry to hear about all this. Sadists are the worst. I've had to deal with a few myself. I've learned to be careful - many of the people who try to build friendships most enthusiastically are really just looking for someone to torture.
Agree that the only way to deal with it is to cut off all contact.
Dude. Life. Don't be a victim. Stand up for yourself, but don't be an asshole yourself.
This whole screed comes off as thinking others are persecuting you. That is in your own head. They actually don't give a fuck about you in particular, but just want to get through their day in as pleasant a way as possible which likely includes doing their job moderately ok.
Quote that fits the " Dont play into their game"
A Lion does not concern himself with the opinions of sheep
I was reading this before I got to uni today for class. Then I experienced this people giving me shit situation straightaway. I was ordering coffee and I purposely asked whether they can do cold coffee without ice. The girl taking the order started to write stuff on the cup and knocked her head so I assumed she was saying yes to my question.
Then when the coffee came out, it’s with ice. Normally I’d think fuck it never mind people never listen because even if I flipped nothing can be changed. They obviously wouldn’t make me a new coffee.
But today intuitively I said something. I said why is my coffee with ice. She then said you didn’t say no ice and normally cold means we add ice. Then I said I asked at the first place to make it no ice, I meant not steaming the milk to make it cold. Then she said you didn’t say no ice.
I don’t wanna waste time arguing this yes or no question. Instead of some of my inner voice suggesting me to record the shit and embarrass her, the “hold my frame” approach is really the key because the truth is people giving people shit all the time. And they don’t feel ashamed of doing it. So no point shaming them as they are incapable of feeling ashamed.
My view is, those behave deserve respect. Those don’t, shamelessness is invincible. So yeah. Don’t bother with shitty people.
Well, good call buddy. If they were a well-known franchise like Starbucks or whatever, I'm pretty sure they would have changed it right away and corrected their mistake. But with those broke ass companies you should hold your frame as much as possible and always know that you're in control of the situation.
If they fucked up your drink, it's ON THEM. You're not paying for something you didn't order.
I think you did right in the beginning by raising the question of where the fuck is my ice and should have persisted just a little bit more by insisting that they fucking change it. Mentioning the money argument is always powerful in these situations. Tell them that I paid for this, and I'm not drinking this until it's remade. So please remake the drink with ice or give me back my money. That's standing your ground and fighting for what's yours buddy.
You’re right. After some thought I should stand a bit more on the remaking rather than arguing whether I said something. Because ultimately it’s not whether she paid attention. I didn’t pay for her paying attention. I paid for the correctness in the order of my drink. Instead of arguing I should say remake it please.
Another point to remember is that people giving you shit usually has more to do about them than it does about you (shit tests are an example of an exception--in that case she IS most definitely testing YOU... just handle your shit and either escalate, use humor, dodge or reverse it, and ALWAYS maintain the frame that you are a badass Mo Fo).
For example, my female cousin has had pretty shitty luck dating and she loves to flip shit at me when I try to give her honest advice (I know, I know--big mistake). But the point is that she's not flipping shit at me because of anything that has to do with me--she's doing it because she's unhappy and wants a scapegoat so she can feel better.
Bingo, build a case, judge and jury it so they can have an excuse for their behavior/feelings.
I have a real problem with this, I'm terrified of saying no. My boss is a woman (parallels to my mother) and she pisses me off to no degree. 'can you go and get this for me pleased, can you sort this box out for me please'. Shitty things she can do herself, if I had a box of cables I wanted sorted I'd fucking sort them. But the thought of saying no just fills me with anxiety, that pause between no and whatever she might say or do is too much and it makes me furious
Let me tell you something that I have noticed amongst those who are good with women and those who are not, those who are neurotic/introvert and those who are less neurotic/extrovert (always thrive to be the latter).
I'm a street illusionist and every once in a while, I go in the streets and do magic tricks to random sample of people. I usually do the same tricks but the people are different. What I noticed is that how the people react to my tricks differ widely.
Both of the examples stated below are TRULY astonished. You can see it on their face and their short 5-seconds buffer, but some show it and others repress it.
The guys with hot girlfriends usually fall in the first type. The losers who don't lift and look beta af fall in the second one.
Be in harmony with your emotions my friend. I learnt on the course of the last few short years of my life that showing that you're angry or anxious (as a beginning) is not necessarily a bad thing. If you feel that you should say no to your boss or whoever the fuck it is giving you shit, then gently say it, "No". The thing about anxiety is that the more you fucking thing about it, the worse it becomes. So always cut the shitstorm before it even begins.
We were raised to comply with everyone's request and be gentle to everyone because that's politness and that's how we should do it. With this way of thinking, we repress our emotions, and repressing our emotions is a very very bad things.
When you flirt with a girl and you vizualize seeing her in bed, show it in your looks and body language. Touch her, gaze down her mouth and imagine u kissing her, let chemistry do its thang.
When your mother gives you something to do, say you're busy, you need to go, you can't do that, you don't WANT to do that, no i can't do that.... etc
You need to work on it step by step. You're conscious of the thing, that's good. Now when it occurs again, take action.
In this kind of situation I suggested that you LEAVE but fuck you can't just quit ur job and leave ur mommy now, can ya?
good luck, mate, let me know if u need further help
wow you are so good at this type of shit. i’m a trp noob but holy. bravo
Looks like for your deep brain this female boss is your mother. Could be like a little PTSD trauma flashback.
My very personal assume, I can be wrong of course, is that in your childhood you were severely punished by your mother for saying 'NO' to her.
One way to not "buy" into the frame is to comply consciously and carefully even when the other person is being silly. It gives you more credibility than someone who just says "No" all the time to work that is assigned to them.
Most of the time when we reject someone's stupid request it's because we'd rather be doing something else, usually nothing. The pain of doing something stupid is higher than the pain of doing nothing so we fight people who ask us to do useless or counter-productive work.
Perhaps the issue then is that you're not engaged in meaningful objectives to begin with. Weather or not to fight someone giving you shit isn't really the battleground, it's deeper. So sometimes, doing the useless work instead of fighting the other person could be good for you, as long as it doesn't become a soul-crushing habit of being a gopher to other people's projects.
this post really opened up my eyes A LOT
I had some older douche at a bar come up and tell me, “these are inside chairs, and they do not belong outside....”
I simply replied, “okie.... we’ll handle it buddy... so sorry”
After an hour or so, he made his way over to our group of people outside, and told me that if I didn’t put that chair back in two minutes, I wouldn’t like what was going to happen to me....”
“I replied with, oh man... totally forgot.... “and acted as if I was going to take care of it....
At this point I’m smart enough to align myself with a bouncer and explained how I needed a chair for my girl, and that I would put the chair back....
He explains to me the guys a douchebag... and to ignore him.....
A few minutes later the guy comes rushing my way, gets in my face... and two bouncers come flying towards the area...
I smiled, sat down on my chair, and said in a soft voice, “have a safe drive sir.”
Calm. And collective, always. Always .... always wins.
It all starts with 'do me a favour and get me my bag from the hall' or 'would you get me a drink please?' Gotta shoot that shit down day one.
damn i’m definitely getting introduced to the RP and a few months ago i was a beta blue pill but DAMN people actually comply to that?
thanks for this.
i feel like some people LIVE for this shit.
I work with a female colleague who intensely gives me a hard time, the only person who is openly hostile to me( at least every one else acts nice,you really can't tell what's in people's minds) I often wondered why, this is GOLDEN. Thanks.
Lift enough so you are unperturbed by the weak and fickle. You dont need any of this mental hoop jumping bullshit. A strong person doesn't need to coerce themselves with ideas. It is their nature to be resilient.
I had a dude come up to me recently when I was about to start deadlifting. Tall lanky dude, not very threatening, could fold him in half easily.
Anyway he comes up to me with an angry stare saying “I was using that barbell” and grabs hold of it while I’m halfway through warming up with the empty bar. He says “I was benching with that.” And points to the empty bench I grabbed the bar from where there were no bags/bottles marking it as used. There are at least 5 other barbells available within a 20 feet radius of this bench. Dudes around us are looking, curious as to what I’m going to do. Keep in mind I’m pretty pumped at this point and weigh 185lb at 6 feet.
Instead of falling into this dude’s trap and getting angry, I immediately say “okay, my bad bro,” (not in a bitch way, kinda just a dismissal) go get another barbell, and resume my warmup in all of 10 seconds like nothing happened, because to me, it was like nothing happened at all.
The dude was clearly on a petty ego trip. I held frame and didn’t let that petty shit interrupt me. He wanted to “win” but in reality he made himself look like a petty fool in front of everybody. I didn’t even take him seriously and that’s the only way to handle these things. People like this are not to be taken seriously. I see this dude from time to time in the gym now and he’s still angrily sulking around. What kind of life do you think this guy lives? What do you think others think of him?
If you let yourself get angry about such things it shows you haven’t experienced much and really don’t have priorities. Men who have climbed mountains have no problem climbing hills. Keep your priorities in check and don’t let petty shit distract you. If you do, you’ll be miserable.
Thanks for sharing this story. This is the right outlook to have with this stuff. Life’s too short to waste mental energy on petty bullshit even if it makes you “look beta” to people around you.
It’s good to note too that we all have our flaws and imperfections. No ones perfect and everyone’s going through some shit. Just let these people air out and get it out of them and don’t take it too personally. But at some points where your dignity is on the line, it’s also important to stick up for yourself in a cool collected manner.
Yeah, sure, I feel you. But here is the thing. To be honest, if I were in your place, I wouldn't comply with his bullshit. What I would have done is to either ask him to wait for me to finish and then he can have the bar, or look around and simply point to another unused bar in the gym saying like "There, you can use that one".
Why? Because of the fear that it starts first with a bar borrowing and it escalates to asking you to gtfoff the bench so that he could do his presses. I don't want imagine what happens next but it just could be the beginning of a really bad infinite series of shit.
Of course what you did was alright, not saying it will never work. But always be careful out there and never accept everyone's gift of negativity.
i did not get it (probably due to language difference) did you say to that guy "okay, my bad bro, go get another barbell" and you resume your warm-up or you went to get another barbell?
Agreed.
But starting off as a beta nice guy who let the world walk all over him and still being okay with it, I guess what I mentioned above could give him a good understanding of how this shit really works.
I experienced this after learning about frame and shittests, and expanded the premise to a more general idea.
Shittests and shit is not something that's praticularly female. Everyone is doing it around you, even guys. Sometimes they'd want to challenge you and you should know how to handle and I can mention a couple of instances.
Once, I agreed with my classmates to discuss the group work after class. One of them was Chinese and couldn't speak English fluently, so she brought her Chinese friend to translate.We were planning on sitting in front of the classroom and discuss the whole thing. And this guy is not even a part of the team yet he was like, "We must go downstairs and discuss this in the cafeteria. This is too noisy".
I got anxious and didn't know what to respond but RP friend was like, "No, we're doing it here, mate".
He was like, "Oh yeah? And why's that?"
He replied, "Because it feels more like a fucking dungeon than a coffeeplace" while pulling a chair and sitting down.
This over is people giving you shit and this is someone holding his frame and standing their grounds.
LOL. Lifting has zero to do with what OP is talking about.
Assuming you don’t work in the MMA, your boss is not going to give a damn how much you can bench press as he looks around the office for someone to hand off a bullshit assignment to.
It’s a fact that people in better physical condition are simply treated better on a day-to-day basis. But I’d caution you against fooling yourself into thinking that anybody in any normal workplace - or even interpersonal relationship, etc - will be intimidated by the fact that you “lift.”
On a subconscious level lifting helps in social dominance because smaller people or even less muscular less fit people will be influenced by your superior physique. It affects that primordial part of the brain from pre civilization where superior anatomical form was more important than quantified intellectual potential or positions of modern day surrogate dominance like the power of an elite bureaucratic position.
I don’t fully disagree with your premise, but I think it’s overstated.
Yeah, idk why he brought in lifting. A scrawny dude that can walk away has infinitely more power than a muscular man who allows himself to be in the presence of those who disrespect him.
Eh... I think maybe you're missing his point. I agree that 'lift=solution' is a somewhat simplistic attitude, but the psychological benefits of strength training and fitness contribute towards resilience, which I think is more what he was saying. I don't think he was saying that having big muscles will intimidate everyone into treating you with respect.
I totally think it helps self confidence, which in turn helps in numerous other ways. But so long as others are self confident (which they may derive from other activities or other reasons), it isn’t some sort of game-changer.
You seem triggered likely because you don’t lift. He’s merely suggesting one solution to the problem. Don’t be dense, it’s not about intimidating people. It’s about building self-confidence and setting priorities along with putting yourself through adversity which will make petty shit feel like a waste of time.
“Triggered.” 😂 Nice try, guy. I’m just suggesting he overstated his point. Which he did.
This. The best part of lifting weights is that you no longer feel threatened if someone else challenges your boundaries like that
Must have the demeanor and frame to go with the muscles also. Your muscles don't stop other muscles from being douchy.
Calling someone out on their "familiarity" with you works well too, along with solid eye contact.
Is this satire?
Lifting has nothing to do with this.
Lifting creates self discipline and mental fortitude, ive noticed friends become less emotional and reactive and more calm and focused as they progress through lifting. Its as if the little things are a waste of focus. Simply reject and dont bother engaging in debate as to why. Its a waste of focus and emotional energy.
TAKE MY FUCKING UPVOTE THIS SHIT IS LIT/TRAVIS SCOTT AUTOTUNED VOICE/
Don’t be afraid to call the authorities if you can’t deal with them any other way.
Example: I live in a small area and am a part of a local “rants and raves” group on Facebook. Now I have had disagreements with certain people in the Facebook group. Stuff that may in retrospect look like trolling on their part but this is a small town with a fair bit of “redneck” so there’s always a bit of the truth of how these people think when they post.
If one of them try and give me a hard time in real life and if I recognize them and after telling them to fuck off there’s nothing wrong with getting police familiar with the circumstances.
Don’t play their games, walk away when you can, but bite when you have to. That’s my thinking
Shit test, the gift that keeps on giving
Whenever I wanna deflect something, I just say "no can do amigo". Comes of with a little humor and no one takes offence. Everybody can save face.
Good post with simple advice which works.
Even tho you haven't already made yourself someones bitch, I'd still avoid people who keep doing this kind of compliance testing. It becomes really frustrating in the long run and usually this kind of people are toxic in many other ways too.
I would argue that simply saying, "no", whilst laughing is usually acceptable. Depends on the request.
Right on well said. I had a dude like this give me shit for a while and would always try and debate the shit which was the wrong decision.
I learned a lot from that interaction as it was an on and off business relationship for 6 years lol. The dude was way above me and i couldn't figure out how to nab him but always wanted to.
Eventually i destroyed his company and he was not able to point the finger at me.
that's the darkest comment i've read on this post so far
Vanishing is really the answer, I wish I had of done this more in the past, very good write up
Just started a new job where old white guys love to dish out the shit. Blame my company for all their problems. Threaten to move the business. I’ve let it control me some during my first 90 days as I am trying to understand what led to the issues.
What I’ve found is that they always want the price lower and the service level higher. Going forward, when more is asked, I’ll flatly tell them that they wanted to pay less for the service, so less is what they get. When that isn’t satisfactory, silence is what they will receive as my last commentary on the matter.
If they constantly do it, and I'm ignoring it, won't that make me look like I'm weak? I can guarantee you that most of the people witnessing the harassment from the other person will be laughing at you if you ignore it and not let it get to you.
Look, in the world of shittests, girls, and setting boundaries and shit, what you do doesn't matter. but HOOOOOOOOOWWWW you do it matters the MOST.
Sure, someone can keep constantly mocking you or laughing at you while you're doing your thing in whatever you're doing. From here, you can do the "ignore them" part in two different ways:
You notice them, you get anxious, you show it on your face and body language==> they win
You notice them, you give them the "Are you serious?" face, and you resume doing whatever you were doing. You gave them just a fraction of your attention and in that fraction you let them know that they're pieces of shit.
But this is unachievable if your respect in the context is already low. Like if everyone's making fun of you, of course they will overwhelm you no matter how hard you tried to keep your composure. But if you're respected and keeping to yourself and someone does that to you, you should communicate to him and to those watching that something is DEFINTELY WRONG with them. Got it?
A friend of mine knows how to irritate me and does it from time to time. He'd mumble something and then he'd hit me on the back of my head, and I'd hit him back harder. There are times when I rage because of his actions and one time I ended up smashing my fists onto the top of his head in front of most of the classmates and he was the one that was made fun of.
Oh and when I asked the question above, we, the male classmates, make fun of ourselves in a playful way, so I was trying to make sure that they weren't making a fool of me.
Bro that's highschool
When you get to college that kind of bullshit is history
Yes, I'm among the young members of this community. Thanks for your comment above by the way, cleared up some things for me.
Thank you.. I needed this. At my job and at my flat. Ive been trying to change for some time already, However this information was worth reading.
Rejecting shit is dangerous because if done wrongly will result in you losing more frame. If you are unsure, just comply but throw it back at them. If someone gives you shit, you take it but immediately give them shit in return. If your flat mate asks you to turn off the lights, you ask them to turn down the volume of the tv. If for some reason you can’t because the situation doesn’t allow it, for example your flat mate is lying in bed and is about to sleep and you can’t really ask him anything, you give them shit in the nearest possible chance. You even create one.
Assertive versus aggressive versus passive aggressive
I wonder how do u deal with your partner or your wife/husband giving u shit? Not frequently but sometimes let say.
I don’t think I’m really too alpha but I realized about a year ago that handling shit in this manner definitely is the way to go. I used to get so pissed off and irritated at people for giving me shit. This goes for not even trying to do things for people but even that douchebag guy you work with who always is making jokes and making stupid comments about people all the time. He’ll say some stupid shit and I’ll literally give him a quick glance, a little stupid face and just go back to what I was doing because I don’t have time to be his source of amusement.
This post is amazing and i experience this CONSTANTLY at work from 40 and 50+ women who worked there a lot longer than me
If you can't find a way to leave or reject their shit, I find that saying "I'm busy" or at least acting like you're busy works well. It shows you are responsible for something. More importantly, it shows that YOU believe your own task is above theirs.
If you don't have a plan of your own, you're a part of someone else's plan
what if you’re with your friends out for lunch and you get up to get some napkins. as you’re getting up your friend ask if you can get him some ketchup.
what do you do?
Comply, and say "you owe me a favor now"
Good way to reject females requests is to attach a complement to it.
- Can you do it for me please.
- Beautiful, do it yourself! (don't you see I'm busy now!)
Was going to take this advice to heart and use it with my dad but if i did he'd just kick me out. I lost before i played.
Wow, this is actually a topic? If the person has 2 working arms/legs, I remind them of this and the conversation usually ends there.
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hey, honestly, i'd advise to pull away from them, as i mentioned at some point in the post, if they're already walking all over you, there's no need to stick around, fuck them and fuck their stupid joke and if they're causing much psychological perturbation, just let them be and go start friendships with people who respect you
and if with these people same shit happens, and they're not already walking all over you, meaning they respect you to a certain degree, then shrug it off and laugh about it cuz it's no big deal, they're just trying to be playful and acting cocky
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That's totally normal for someone who doesn't have a good frame, work on your psychological balance and always make sure to have that aura of you got your shit pulled together that no matter what other people do you'll always still doing your thang regardless of them
One bro once told me, "You're an oak tree, my friend" don't let anything shakes you. Hoes are stupidly silly. Men are usually a short period in your life. You should always be the oak tree that stands in the face of wind and tornados
Nothing said here that hasn’t been said before and in a more simple and concise way. Save yourself a lot of time and just sort for best posts all time.
Reminds me of Nietzsche. Life itself is a battle of wills. "Will to power".
People don't give me shit. I give shit people.
Easiest strategy for everyone except work and family ( Different situations. Zaitsev wrote a nice series on handling work) specifically for other men.
If someone starts giving you shit, just take away their personal space. Walk up to them as close as possible. If they've said something stupid, tell then you did not hear them and they should repeat themselves. If they say it again ( if they are that dumb) , repeat you did not hear them and they should repeat themselves, continue then to take away even more of their personal space. Locked in eye contact. If they move back, move with them.
If they've said something esp fucked up, start of by saying "I'm going to shake your hand" really loud. Then shake their hand. Then don't let go of their hand. Then say loudly, "I'm going to pat you on the back" Then pat them firmly on the back, like a quick slap. Then say, "I'm glad we have such a good connection that we can shake hands and pat each other on the back" Pat them on the back again. Don't let go of their hand. Stare them in the eye. Ask them to repeat themselves because you didn't hear them the first time.
There is some bizarre notion risking a physical fight is a loss of frame. I don't understand that but to each their own. 99.99999 percent of guys will back down. If they don't, fuck it then.
With women, laugh in their face and walk away.
With men, take their personal space. Violate their personal zone. Get in their face. Zero fucks given.
Men are animals. We were built to fight. We were built for conflict. "But you might go to jail!" or "You might get sued and dragged into court!" OK, in some situations, just ambush them then.
Conflict with men is the same with women. Zero fucks given. Be bold. Take no shit. Escalate as needed.
My take is most modern men don't understand violence. Most American men esp are soft ass bitches. Getting in someone's face works wonders.
This is some major autism. Don’t do this lmao
i would back down exactly because of this lmao
Funny. I had a guy use the strategy you mentioned on me after I insulted him.
I punched him right in the face. He looked so surprised that someone punched him. Didn't even hit back.
I got suspended from school, but it was worth it. No one messed with me after that.
Then they don't. Sometimes you have to fight.
For example, Whisper usually signs out his top level posts saying if he and the endorsed core could "steal the lunches and the women" of guys here, they'd do it. I understand the point of it. It's meant to discuss to evaluate everything you hear with open eyes. That everyone has self interest involved.
Also plenty of guys say go ahead and bang other dudes wives and gfs.
Something to consider is most of these guys are American or in the Western world. In plenty of places in the world, if Whisper was caught stealing another dudes lunch or woman, that guy would kill Whispers family. He would line them up in front of Whisper and cut their throats one by one. Then go mix a drink. He'd see who was the most loved based on who got begged for the most.
This is again, an objective point. I'm not advocating violence against anyone here or wishing it upon them. I am saying the way most guys here see violence is an entirely modern and Western conception. Much of it based on fear of legal liability.
We are hardwired to fuck. The endorsed core say it all the time. It's our "biology" We are also built to fight. It's wired within us.
Am I saying start fights or engage in every fight possible? No. You can still walk up into someone's personal space. Then decide the tactics are not ideal at that point, walk away and ambush him later. It's not the ideal situation, the ideal situation is weighing out getting the guy later where you hold much of the tactical advantage. But nothing is ever ideal.
"But you'll look like a punk!"
My answer is zero fucks given.
There is PRIDE and there is DIGNITY. Pride is given up when most guys take shit from their boss to keep their kids fed. Men give up PRIDE all the time. But once you assess the person is trying to take your DIGNITY, then fuck that bullshit. That's the hill you die on. Most men, esp American men, do not understand the line between the two because the modern age has beaten down the fighting instinct out of most men.
If you think you are dealing with a crazy then calibrate. Assess him as such. Wait, find him later, ambush him if he's gone after your dignity. I keep hearing violence is a loss of frame. I have no fucking idea where that comes from to be honest. If you get your skull bashed in with a steel pipe, you have no frame. If you are dead, you have no frame. If the other guy has his skull split open, he has no frame.
Don't take any shit from anyone where you have no obligations with them.
Die before anyone takes your dignity from you
Violence is natural and IMHO one of the most misunderstood aspects of a man's internal "toolbox"
If someone was to steal my lunch id make sure i knew who did it get prof , only for my self then the next day my lovely lunch would be back in the same place for you to steal and eat , and you would because youve done it twice now but you see i made this lunch just for you my dear friend and ill watch you eat it with a smile on your face as i wait with out eating for your stomach to come pouring through your mouth , it wont stop just getting started then the explosive bowel cleansing glass in your ass expolsion of anything youve eaten in a week will begin but not end . oh the leagal thing well you see youd have to say it was your lunch right or that your a petty thief and stole mine and saved me from your gut wrenching exsistance that is yours at that moment , now if i was married would you like to try my wife after that just imagine what could be next my friend
No shit. You can't have a functioning civilization if it is common practice to slit a guy's throat (and his family's throats') for stealing your lunch.
That's called chaos.
I live in a society like that. I much prefer the United States and western world.
PS: Violence IS a loss of frame in civilized society. Violence works fine in a chaotic society.
Its basically standing your ground and showing no fear , good advice to the modern generation there may have to be some hurt feeling reports typed up but hey brake a couple of eggs right
This is another reason why I love jiu jitsu none of the fake shxt when that roll starts. If your trying to play these subtle games then you better be a higher belt / more skilled otherwise your in for some hurt during sparring. Had this happen a couple of times already you can feel it and I love putting these types in their place when I can. Play all the power games you want just make sure your the better grappler your bs can't save you in primal combat. A chick at my gym of course a female would be into this was trying me from day one eventually I caught up to her and will most likely eventually pass her in rank and skill and she felt the ass whooping coming and all her shxt was suddenly useless and she tried to turn our roll into a drill session base on the raw power / combined with skill at that point I brung into that roll and I crushed her pretty much communicated cut the bs lol her face and trying to play nice bs was priceless lol
Good for you you show that young lady whos the boss lol
Why do you care? Truly. It makes no sense to me that you should give enough of a shit to feel like the “winner” in any of these situations.
Just do what you can to end the interaction as quickly as possible and as efficient as possible for you. Doesn’t matter who “wins” as long as your time isn’t wasted.
There was this one time I just could take his crap anymore and I beat the living shit out of that asshole and and that put and end to it. But I wouldn't recommend that course of action unless you're willing to pay the price.
If you reached the point where you needed to beat the living shit out of that asshole in order to make him stop then you’d actually better just walk away. Like literally turn your body around and walk. You had already fucked up beyond repair. You had already lost the respect of the group and you can’t regain it. You’re always gonna be that little bitch who can’t control his emotions and loses his shit over little stupid things.
See you're wrong because you're adding elements to my experience that never happened.
I had literally walked away from thus asshole over a year. Literally turned away and walked away day after day.
There was no group to lose respect. I only lost respect for myself for not standing up for myself.
The only time I felt like "a little bitch" was before I confront the guy and literally beat the crap out of him.
I haven't seen hide nor hair of him since.
I've never felt better.
I disagree - giving shit to someone is definitely not about building authority over somebody.
I think it is connected to our in-group cooperative instinct - we see the weak in our in-group and we attempt to make it stronger by testing it - similar to shit-tests from women being in a way, their attempts to make their men stronger.
Because, for example, I bully my little brother a bit but not my other brother. My other brother is stronger and more mature. My little brother is still a bit of a runt, and I find myself bullying him a little - I have absolutely no desire to dominate or gain 'authority' over him. I don't feel that way towards my own brother. I love him, and my bullying is done out of nothing but love. But, I do desire that my brother can become a better person - I think that bullying him is designed by our instinctual pathways to do just that.
The same way the trees in the Bio-Dome fell over because there was no wind to push them to make them strong - we need people to push us, to make us strong.
If people giving you shit, is giving you shit - then you need it. You are weak. When them giving you shit, no longer bothers you, then you are strong, and they will stop.
Dude, I'm not talking about hardening the metal of your siblings or your bros. Read the post again. I explicitly stated that Shit is irrational. Why would someone YOU HAVE JUST MET makes you feel uncomfortable?
Jesus dude no you got this completely wrong
It is on a subconscious level, otherwise why would you be so cut and dry about who you "bully"? You instinctively see your brother as superior so you don't give him shit, and you are not "trying" to build authority over your younger brother because you already see yourself as superior. You are acting in a way that says you are better than him, any outside observer could see that there is a pecking order between you three.
You don't notice this, because that is how your relationship has been for your whole life I imagine. You've been taking the pecking order for granted, so you don't see yourself as "actively trying to build authority". If your younger brother were to actively try and be better than you, and succeed at it, I bet you would push back hard to try and "keep him in his place". I also bet that, at first, you wont even realise that you are doing it.
I realize now, it was a knee-jerk reaction to being told that its all about domination and power over others, that I wanted to provide an alternative way of seeing it that wasn't so cut and dry.
It might be something I need to come to terms with - but I do think it is a beneficial in-group instinct that has the purpose of strengthening individuals.
And no, I have been aware of the dynamics at play since a very young age - I have the benefit of a disability that sets me apart from the general populace - which makes such things easy to see.