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francie-brady
[–][deleted] 281 points282 points283 points 6 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link
She's rght. Mandatory child support in this situation is anti male sexual discrimination.
[–]asillynert95 points96 points97 points 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
Problem is they deflect this discussion if you can get anyone to admit the fact that men have zero say but can be held liable. They will try to deflect to the well he should have used condoms or not had sex. Which you counter with couldn't she have done the same? If you can get them to acknowledge that hypocrisy.
They will then revert back to the "child support" is not about the parents. But the well being of the child. Best example of this is cases where male rape victims are forced to pay child support. As obviously rape removes liability of choice as you had no choice. Thus those men are forced to pay for the well being of the child.
[–]Regulusx133720 points21 points22 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Well being of the child. Well, being that it's not mine..
[–]fredanderssen18 points19 points20 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
And because pregnancy is something that only happens to the female, it behooves her to make sure she's protected. In no way is it the man's responsibility.
[–]Hirudin11 points12 points13 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
They will then revert back to the "child support" is not about the parents. But the well being of the child.
If this were the case, it would be illegal for women to use sperm donors. It's not the case, therefore the child is simply the excuse used to transfer money from the man to the woman.
[–]seeriktus9 points10 points11 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Reminds me of a quote from 'As good as it gets'
[–]asillynert3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That man does some of the best crazy I have ever seen.
[–]AllahHatesFags3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I'm so sick of this "best interests of the child" bullshit. Why are a child's interests more important than my own?
[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
They're not. Fuck the system and those serving it - cops,judges, country clerks, and so on.
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Of course. No shock there. Women are the victims and if men hace to fnancially support a bastard kid or kids that aren't his to help a poor female victim out then so be it.
[–][deleted] 23 points24 points25 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
My wallet, my choice.
[–]dilatory_tactics12 points13 points14 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
The man's choice comes in before he fucks the woman without a condom and other birth control.
If he doesn't pay for the kid, then the burden falls on the rest of society to pick up the slack.
Even worse than the man having to pay for his own shitty kid is the rest of society having to pay for the man's irresponsibility in having unprotected sex.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
not only should mandatory child support be abolished but society's burden to pay for the child once it's born. the problem lies in that society will pay to house the kid once it grows up and is in and out of the prison system. well ..... this is why i can't agree with everything the conservative-libertarian types subscribe to. this is why i support mandatory sterilization and abortion for women pregnant out of wedlock (if they're poor and unable to support it themselves) and funded by the tax payers - it's to prevent us spending more money in the years to come.
[–]Ymoh-1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Same scenario occurs when a woman gives the baby up for adoption and that is acceptable somehow.
Same argument.
[–]8017353 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Well, it could be, but Kevin Species said he is gay, though.
[–][deleted] 113 points114 points115 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
no laws have changed; who cares what all the opinions are, or their source THIS IS WHY WE ARE MGTOW consider all the virgin men out there, having their taxes support single moms. yeh, exactly.
[+][deleted] 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
[deleted]
[–]8017356 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
But something has definitely to change.
Stop that! They'll shut down the sub! (also MRA)
[–]Varrick20161 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Huh? Wait what? In America?
[–]Zombocom191182 points83 points84 points 6 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link
exactly right. If a man files official paperwork (if such existed) saying he does not want the baby, perhaps as late as up to 5 months into term, he should be free of all liability for life. its HER choice to take the baby to full term then, and therefore 100% her liability.
[+][deleted] 6 years ago* (16 children) | Copy Link
[–]WikiTextBot63 points64 points65 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Paper abortion
Paper abortion, also known as a financial abortion or a statutory abort, is the proposed ability of the biological father, before the birth of the child, to opt out of any rights, privileges, and responsibilities toward the child, including financial support. By this means, before a child is born, a man would be able to absolve himself of both the privileges and demands of fatherhood.
[ PM | Exclude me | Exclude from subreddit | FAQ / Information | Source | Donate ] Downvote to remove | v0.28
[–]Zombocom191124 points25 points26 points 6 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
good to know, thanks! this is something all MRA should demand be made law.
[–]asillynert18 points19 points20 points 6 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
Problem is there is caveats that make it not strong. Such as most current proposals make it so man has to sign it within first 3 months of pregnancy. Aka wait till month 4 and your still on hook.
[–]fredanderssen34 points35 points36 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Which gives the female reason to hide the pregnancy.
[–]Zombocom19117 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
true.
[–]Ymoh-5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It would be as simple as enforcing the paperwork where the mother needs to prove she notified the father within first 6-8 weeks of pregnancy.
The bullshit where women are exempt from having to protect themselves and their interests because daddy government does it at the expense of men needs to stop.
Women are the ones getting pregnant. Women should be the ones making sure that if they don’t want to end up in risk of raising a child on their own they need to get their asses off the chair and take the necessary steps.
Isn’t that exactly what they are demanding of men nowadays?? Take the necessary steps to avoid unwanted fatherhood??
[–]NewLife_20172 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Weight gain vs pregnancy is tough to tell during the first 3 months.
[–]801735-1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Naaaaaaaaaaaah. Nothing like that.
[–]Zombocom19115 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
yeah, that is not as strong as the full 9 months but it's still something.
[–]asillynert6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
yeah but thats why you dont tell them you are pregnant hell I knew a chick in highschool that made it a ways before anyone noticed. Seen some able to get to week 15 without even using techniques to hide it. But right colors patterns in clothes combined with layers you could probably get another 2 months.
Concept of law is to give without giving anything aka if they are keeping it wait three months then tell will be new standard.
[–]originalSpacePirate16 points17 points18 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The responsibility should be on the mother to prove she told the guy she was pregnant. It should be 4 weeks from finding out, not 4 weeks since she became pregnant
[–]DonaldTrumpsWaifu11 points12 points13 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Most of them have been. The problem is, both tradcons and feminists are (again) in agreement on this. And both essentially have sway over governments around the world.
In the US, Democrats giving men rights is as suicidal for a political career as a Republican voting in favour of demolishing the "nuclear family".
[–]Tyler7892283 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Thanks
[–]yourusernameishowoth7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It'd be better to instead have to sign a paper that you'll support the baby. If you don't sign it then the woman should know not to rely on you and will have to support the baby herself.
Basically instead of opt out, opt in. No more trapping guys with babies, if they don't want to, they can walk away.
But yeah this would reduce the birthrates a ton so no wonder they don't want to.
[–]Slaide6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Holding women accountable? That's just crazy!
[–][deleted] 79 points80 points81 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Doesnt matter what she says, the Beta's are enabler's of this BS.
[–]brainhack3r7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
My mom indoctrinated me into this shit. She was a single mother raising me as my dad basically walked away from his responsibilities.
I don't think she actually thought it through from a male perspective though. She agrees with me now though.
[–]seabassseabreeze74 points75 points76 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
So your dad wanted you aborted, but instead your mom raised you by herself. When she was done, you convinced her she was a free-loader for taking your dad's money. Okay.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Same here, but spirituality saved my ass. Thank God.
[–]NexusInd63 points64 points65 points 6 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
All I see is male shaming. Men should have the right to opt out and if men can't opt out then neither can women. You want women to be able to have abortions then give men the power to opt out. Plus as usual, nothing but holding the man accountable while treating the woman like an innocent doll. What happens far more is the man wants the kid but the woman aborts it anyways. Where is the fairness and responsibility in that?
[–]7mil22 points23 points24 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
Opt out by not fucking females
[–]betternotsettle12 points13 points14 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Downvoted, but true. Some cannot understand how to do this...the thirst is REAL.
[–]JoelDubs3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
The logic here is that it's okay for women to opt out after the fact; being able to abort babies. Why can't men opt out of their sperm donation also?
[–]LambeauLeapt9 points10 points11 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
You can - by not fucking a woman. Or using a goddamn condom.
[–]allowsnackbar5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Don't worry cupcake, no one wants to fuck you.
[–]LambeauLeapt12 points13 points14 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
My husband happily does, so I have zero worries in that department. Thanks for your concern, though! 😘
[–]JoelDubs0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
If I could take back all the bs relationships and effort I put in with your kind and be in the mindset I am today, I could have saved myself a lot of heart ache.
Edit: Ok I got you; misunderstanding.
[–]allowsnackbar0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I think you missed, I agree with everything you've been saying here.
I'm saying the lost, wandering roastie up there is has too many miles for anyone to want to fuck her.
[–]80173511 points12 points13 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Where is the fairness and responsibility in that?
In Disney cartoons.
[–][deleted] 42 points43 points44 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Fuck you! You cis gender mal..... Oh wait.....
[–]razingcane24 points25 points26 points 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
Wo......is this woman Karen DeCrow in hiding? Still Alive? That statement should be tattooed onto the face of every single mother in the country and on the welfare lines.
[+][deleted] 6 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]razingcane0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
She should not be buried by obscurity.
[+][deleted] 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
[removed]
[–]ShrunkenHed23 points24 points25 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
It doesn't matter if you can find outliers or even cite one, or a hundred. What they would do is hardly a factor in MGTOW (although there is a lot of that to be found and rightly concerned about) but what they CAN do in this lopsided, gynocentric society.
What your argument is saying is that "Guys, please, there's a small minority of women out there who wouldn't do this (NAWALT legend), so grab a six shooter, load 5 chambers, give it a spin, point it at your face and see what happens when you pull the trigger."
Why would would you implore a guy to play against such odds? If you have any sense of fairness, you have to recognize the absurdity of your expectation and argument.
Honestly, I'd rather just play the roulette game than risk being an indentured servant to a lunatic banshee, sucking the very essence of life from me for 18-life.
[–]Tallsmarthandsome0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Your mom made the choice to fuck a drug addict cheater, and raise a beta pussy, AWALT
[–]allowsnackbar21 points22 points23 points 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
Her body, her choice, her problem, her financial obligation.
[–]Tommie0151 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
If others problems are never your problems, no one will help you with anything.
[–]allowsnackbar3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Congrats, you just realized why men don't want to help women with anything nowadays.
[–]LambeauLeapt5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
You are highlighting the very reason women aren’t putting up w your stupid, fucking, asinine bullshit anymore. Let’s be honest here - that’s what you’re REALLY pissed about. Your unchecked misogyny and sexism is being called out & you have no defense bc you’re all complete fucking idiots.
And here we see the roastie in her naturally triggered state when she realizes her free ride at the expense of men is coming to an end.
[–]LambeauLeapt4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
The irony of that is that I’m a happily married woman who has chosen not to have children. I pay my own way, bitch. Try again.
[–]allowsnackbar4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
A happily married woman who pays her own way decided to come chat with us MGTOW dudes because.... why exactly?
[–]LambeauLeapt6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Honestly? Was in another sub and someone linked this one as a slam & I had no idea what it was, so I checked it out. Once here, I couldn’t stop reading the train wreck of faulty bro logic. lol
[–]Tommie0152 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You wanna live in a world where everyone refuse to help another?
[–]Helikzhan20 points21 points22 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That rare woman without the 1,000 cock stare.
[–]Davidec7718 points19 points20 points 6 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
If you are the biological father of a child, you are responsible for the care of that child even if it’s not convenient for you. It’s called being a responsible adult,
[–]that_nast4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
By that logic then, a women should be responsible as well, which would exclude abortion or adoption. If a woman has a child it's her responsibility to care for it even if it isn't convienent. See how silly that sounds?
[+][deleted] 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]Tommie0151 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
If you're a father, be a father. If you're a mother, be a mother. The problem here is women are unable to bail before childbirth.
[–]that_nast3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Overly simplistic. That's not whats being discussed here. And of course women are allowed to bail - abortion allows it. They're also allowed to bail afterwards - adoption is legally available. Men have no such luxuries.
[–]Tommie0150 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Hey that's actually pretty fair. Ofcourse this is harder in some community's where abortion is considered murder and adoration must be even harder than abortion mentally. The father can in this case just leave before childbirth while the mother can't.
[–]that_nast4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Sure, in some communities. But if we're looking at this issue through the lens of Western culture, then none of those outcomes you listed apply. Legally, a mother can abort or choose adoption on her own volition (ignoring social stigmas since that doesn't actually bar someone from aborting or putting up for adoption). Legally the father is forced to pay child support by the state regardless of whether or not he wanted to become one in the first place, and has no say in the matter.
[–]Ymoh-2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
The father can in this case just leave before childbirth while the mother can't.
That is the downside of female reproductive reality.
The upside being that they can choose to have a kid “on their own” while men can’t.
Advocating for a reality where you get to enjoy your upsides and have your downsides corrected at the expense of another human while refusing to reciprocate is hypocritical at best, tyrannical at worst.
[–]Tommie0150 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Why would you want to be a single parent? Its hard enough with the two of you!
[–]Ymoh-2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I genuinely don’t understand your question. The motives for one person to desire parenthood even if it is in single state probably outweigh the cons it has to deal with the baby alone.
Parenthood is usually a rather strong desire.
[–]Captain_Pwnage16 points17 points18 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
The solution is obvious: if you are not willing to pay child support, don't put yourself into a position where you might have to. Wear a condom, have a vasectomy or refrain from fucking around. The children are the least responsible for their own birth and are rightly protected from poverty by law.
[–]Ymoh-3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
if you are not willing to pay child support, don't put yourself into a position where you might have to
Great argument against abortion. if you are not willing to raise a child, don't put yourself into a position where you might have to
[–]Captain_Pwnage5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
It's not an argument against abortion at all, though. Abortion plays no role in anyone's decision to risk having children for a few minutes of fun.
If you truly want to go your own way, don't make it dependent on anyone else.
[–]Ymoh-2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Abortion plays no role in anyone's decision to risk having children for a few minutes of fun.
This still does not prevent what you said earlier from being a valid argument against the legality of abortion and evidence of the hypocrisy of today’s society’s view of men.
I understand you come from the perspective of “fuck this world and its stupid gynocentric rules”, but those of us who chose to go our own way without becoming nihilistic are still able to point out what needs to be fixed.
If you have given up, good stuff. For you. I still want a better world for my nephews than the one my dad and uncles allowed this one to become.
[+][deleted] 6 years ago* (130 children) | Copy Link
[+][deleted] 6 years ago (98 children) | Copy Link
[+][deleted] 6 years ago* (97 children) | Copy Link
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[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points-2 points 6 years ago (68 children) | Copy Link
It's not hypocritical at all. A man and woman are both financially responsible for that child, but a man does not have to carry that child to term.
You're being pretty dishonest trying to present the experience of pregnancy as the same for a man and a woman. It isn't. That's why women are allowed more rights in regards to pregnancy. It's very simple.
[–]AReditAccount16 points17 points18 points 6 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link
a man does not have to carry that child to term
neither does the woman.
[+][deleted] -9 points-8 points-7 points 6 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link
no shit lol
[–]AReditAccount12 points13 points14 points 6 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link
"no shit lol" yet you implied otherwise
[+][deleted] 6 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 6 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link
Imagine being too stupid to even respond.
[+][deleted] 6 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link
[–]IAmTheDos9 points10 points11 points 6 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link
... neither does a woman. Even if she does carry the child to term, she does not need to be financially responsible for it. She can legally abandon it or give it up for adoption.
No one is suggesting that a man should be able to barge into the doctor's office and demand that she abort/not abort the pregnancy. It is her reproductive right, the choice is always hers.
But all of society says and even enforces a woman's right to barge into the bank and demand that he be financially responsible for a choice he did not and could not make. He doesn't even need to be the actual father of the child, the state will still make her decision someone else's responsibility under penalty of incarceration.
For men, their reproductive rights can be summed up thusly: "Abstinence only, most of the time".
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago* (16 children) | Copy Link
You wrote a whole lot of words that blatantly ignore the fact that a man chooses to have sex fully aware of the possible outcomes.
It's like you think you have a right to have sex without being responsible for a potential pregnancy. Sorry, that isn't how the world works.
[–]IAmTheDos10 points11 points12 points 6 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link
a man chooses to have sex fully aware of the possible outcomes It's like you think you have a right to have sex without being responsible for a potential pregnancy
a man chooses to have sex fully aware of the possible outcomes
It's like you think you have a right to have sex without being responsible for a potential pregnancy
This is literally the same thing as Abstinence Only Education.
Abstinence-only sex education is a form of sex education that teaches not having sex outside of marriage. It often excludes other types of sexual and reproductive health education, such as birth control and safe sex. Comprehensive sex education, by contrast, covers the use of birth control and sexual abstinence. Evidence does not support the effectiveness of abstinence-only sex education.[1][2] It has been found to be ineffective in decreasing HIV risk in the developed world.[3] It does not decrease rates of sexual activity or unplanned pregnancy when compared to comprehensive sex education.[1]
Abstinence-only sex education is a form of sex education that teaches not having sex outside of marriage. It often excludes other types of sexual and reproductive health education, such as birth control and safe sex. Comprehensive sex education, by contrast, covers the use of birth control and sexual abstinence.
Evidence does not support the effectiveness of abstinence-only sex education.[1][2] It has been found to be ineffective in decreasing HIV risk in the developed world.[3] It does not decrease rates of sexual activity or unplanned pregnancy when compared to comprehensive sex education.[1]
Your argument is if a man has sex, even if he takes every other step and option available to avoid pregnancy, then he must be forever responsible for the pregnancy. If you said this to a woman she would correctly summarize your argument as "well then learn to keep your legs shut you slut. You took the dick, now take the responsibility!"
But as the excerpt above shows, it literally doesn't even work, even if it weren't horribly discriminatory and sexist.
[–]Demopathos0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
Your argument is very logical. I’m not sure what stance I feel is stronger now.
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago* (7 children) | Copy Link
It's a very nuanced topic. There is a lot at play, but when you boil it down to the grit, you have two facts; a woman's right to choose what she does with her body is inalienable, and if a child is born, the people who are responsible for creating it are now obligated to provide for it in every way.
Anything that isn't in line with that has no place in modern society, and that includes any right for a man to walk away when a woman decides to have the child.
Far as I can tell, the people who disagree with me want a world where they can have sex indiscriminately with virtually no repercussions, leaving the entirety of the burden with the sex that happens to have the baby-making parts. It's masked under the pretense of equal rights, but really it's just people being greedy, irresponsible, and childish.
[–]dracoadera0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Check yourself, fathers rights are less than a mother's, in law and in practice. I would agree with you if parental rights were equal. But that isn't the case. I'll use my own experience in this. I have 2 children, a 5 yo daughter and a 3 yo son. My daughter will most likely never look for me, my rights were terminated without hearing, and I am barred from appeal. Why you may ask. Well I'm not violent, never been arrested. Have never done anything unlawful tbh. The answer, she made friends with s family judge in her church ward who handled it. Have to pay child support and anything she claims to have paid for childcare, I get have written receipts that are notarized for 3000 a month. My son is with his mom's grandparents, they had rights before I did and now I am fighting for custody since his mom just left him there, one problem, one state uses federal custody laws (the one I'm in) the other uses state and federal and state, depending on the needs of the state to make money..... so I may lose my son over a states income. Best interest of the child my ass. I'll believe all of the crap they try to shove down my throat when I get to see my children. If a mother wants to keep the child away from their father they should be on their own, not on my dime....
9 months of pregnancy is the equivalent of 18 years of payments? Are you insane?
[–]PolishHammerMK17 points18 points19 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Too bad society blames the guy solely if both of them were drunk.
[–]motdidr6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
what about the scenario where the man wants to have the child, but the woman doesn't? should she be forced to carry it to term, since they both "decided" to get pregnant?
[–]FritzLn2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
agreed. keep your legs closed.
[–][deleted] 16 points17 points18 points 6 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link
You realize that sperm doesn't wait for men to consent to stage 1 to do their thing right?
If you want specific answers to your question go to twoX and ask them "why do women need the option to have abortions when they can just choose not have sex if they don't wanna get pregnant. "
They will have lots of answers for you.
[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 6 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link
if you want (don't?) want to pay for a kid don't attempt have kids.
Well it sounds like the premise of this argument warrants a sarcastic bullshit response.
Back to basics: Having sex without a condom =\= wanting to having a child.
You can have sex without a condom and not consent to having a child. It's simple. I've done it hundreds of times.
Therefore stating that 'failing to make use of condoms or other preventative measures constitutes consent' is wrong. It's not the case for women (due to the option of abortion), and it shouldn't be the case for men either (via refusal to support).
For fairness, the man needs to make his choice up before women loses the chance to make their choice (so before 21 weeks in many states I believe). But as long as she still has the option to decide if she still wants to raise a baby without the support of a father should he choose to opt out, then she isn't being denied anything excepted for government mandated slave labor from the father (which has supposedly been illegal for quite some time).
[+][deleted] 6 years ago* (14 children) | Copy Link
[–]mediumwaffle15 points16 points17 points 6 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link
The moment you cum inside of a female you've forfeited your responsibility to opt-out.
The moment the woman allows the man to fuck her without protection she forfeits any rights to an abortion.
See how retarded that sounds? Why the fuck do you put all the responsibility on the man and none on the woman?
[+][deleted] 6 years ago* (11 children) | Copy Link
[+][deleted] 6 years ago* (10 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
Except a guy can get sperm jacked like the case with a forged signature to get his frozen sperm and he's still responsible. Or raped at 14 and forced to pay child support to his rapist.
[–]thewatisit17 points18 points19 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
You made the decision to get a girl pregnant, the options were there for you to prevent it (condoms, abstinence, etc.). Those are your responsibilities and subsequent consequences.
Ever heard of sperm-jacking? Or the girl lying about being on birth control or her danger days?
[+][deleted] 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]neautika4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Oh yes it fucking does. When women go ape shit over a man. Happened to me three times. I had the pregnancy card pulled 3 times. I was sceptical and to this day think they were lying about BC. So I neem oiled my dick and said it was just a natural lube that didnt smell good.
The yoga studio/instructor pulled the prego card to get me back. It was bs. A stripper I dated that hid a.drug problem. And this one super hot nag of crazy that changed her pregnancy story back and forth so many times I just laughed.
Neem oil... It saved my ass when I should have wrapped it 100% of the time. But those chicks were super hot... And they wanted me to cum in them. The power of the vagina is strong. Lol
[–]geeses18 points19 points20 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
By that logic, abortion should be illegal the same way that not paying child support is illegal.
A normal argument is that abortion is legal because denying it, denies a woman bodily autonomy. Her right to autonomy supersedes the child's right to life.
If the issue is bodily autonomy then I'd say forcing a man to work to pay for a child he doesn't want under threat of imprisonment is effectively slavery, which is also a violation of bodily autonomy.
[–]JoelDubs2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This.
[–]ManIsWalking15 points16 points17 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
My argument falls to cases of sperm jacking. By those rules, the man made a clear decision to prevent the pregnancy, but that was circumvented without his consent by the woman.
In a right world, if you were sperm jacked, that should nullify all responsibility to maintenance payments... but in reality, it doesn't matter.
Ya im with you. I thought thats kinda where this article was cumming(giggle) from.
There are plenty of ways a woman can manipulate this and try to get pregnant to lock him in while the man just wants to have sex.
[–]Itisforsexy15 points16 points17 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
If a woman was not allowed to put up the baby for adoption, or give it away, then at least it would be consistent. But she can. A woman has no financial risk at all, a man has 21 years of serfdom. That's imbalanced beyond words.
The simplest and most reasonable system is if a man states he does not want a kid, if the girl gets pregnant and chooses to keep the baby instead of aborting or putting it up for adoption, then she is choosing by her own volition to bear all the responsibility.
[–]AReditAccount11 points12 points13 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
all boils down to one thing: do you think consent to sex means you consent raising a kid? then apply this standard consistently and you will realise why youre wrong.
[+][deleted] 6 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]AReditAccount6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
so do you believe that, or do you not? You say you dont believe that, then in the very same sentence you contradict yourself. You seem very hypocritical over a simple question.
[–]AReditAccount5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You could could not even give a consistent opinion. dont kid yourself.
[–]blackhole8853 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I do not believe that. Willingly cumming inside of a girl is consent to raising a kid.
I do not believe that.
Willingly cumming inside of a girl is consent to raising a kid.
you HAVE to be a troll, i refuse to believe any one person could be this stupiud
[–]Temperfuelmma10 points11 points12 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The first stage is the male's and female's decision to want to get pregnant.
No. The first stage is the male and female decision to have sex. Consent to sex doesn't mean consent to fatherhood.
[–]abend27 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Click the link below for a speech given by Karen Straughan. The link starts where she addresses this topic but you might want to watch the whole thing. It's really quite excellent.
https://youtu.be/O0zQf5NMG8E?t=1975
[–]curiouslyengaged3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Wow - her logic is impeccable.
[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
What about equal rights? These guys are fighting for equal rights but it comes to a grinding halt when pregnancy is involved.
Sure, you and the woman are both as foolish as each other avoiding contraception but equal rights dictate both parties get to make a decision with the pregnancy. Your body? Well it's containing part of the males body now too.
[+][deleted] 6 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
How is it more foolish for the man?
[–]wellimout4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I'd like to hear arguments against this.
Would you really? Honestly I doubt that. Let's see.
The argument is that women have additional options at stage 2 because of technology. We developed technology and built machines with the capability to give women choices. And then we had a protracted debate about whether or not to use that technology. In that debate, we decided to use the technology. Great!
Now try to imagine an alternate scenario. Imagine I had invented a machine that lets men abscond from some responsibility, whatever it is- maybe it's taxes. There's a machine that lets men choose not to pay taxes. You say that's not right, and I respond that it's my body working to pay the taxes so it should be my choice. But keep in mind, it's a choice I have only because we developed technology that facilitates it.
I bet you can't muster an arguments for why women shouldn't be afforded the same privilege
[–]thehighground0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
What about stupid men who believe it when a woman says she's on the pill?
[–]Sol_Install13 points14 points15 points 6 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
That being said, when a woman starts shaming you about kids and money, say to her:
My wallet, MY CHOICE.
My balls, MY CHOICE.
Shit pisses them off.
[–]LambeauLeapt5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
My vagina, MY CHOICE. Keep your unprotected micro penis away from vaginas if you can’t handle responsibility.
[–]Ymoh-5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
The fact that you need to shame men for supposed small dicks on every comment you make just makes it obvious that your arguments do not hold enough substance on their own.
You need to hold the threat of further shaming in order to try and put an end to your faulty logic being dismantled by the most simplistic measures of equal consideration to both sexes.
Your game is up.
[–]SidewalkPainter6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
But calling women dumb, cruel and inferior on a daily basis is cool cause it's true, riiiiiiiiiighhhttt?
Nobody defended that to be cool, but the your comment speaks volumes about the anger you share with the shamer above, and about how you think it is ok to shit on men whenever they step out of your approved femi-narrative.
Please take your man-hating ways and your victim complex somewhere else.
[–]Sol_Install6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
You're a fool. That's a charade that humanity presents. But is nothing but a charade. There are men who pay child support. And guess what? There are mothers who spend the money on themselves. Everything from getting their nails done, hair done, new shoes, cell phones and so on. Wealthy men? Pay more than enough to support a child. What happens to the rest of the money? She does what she wishes with it. I had a coworker who did pay CS payments. The mother? Squandered it. He was upset and asked why is he paying if his daughter is not benefiting from it?
You really believe the nonsense you spout here? If what you see is true, why does reality contradict you and everyone else who believes the lie? Does a single child NEED thousands per month in child support? Or what measures are taken to MAKE SURE that the payments for the child are being spent on the child? Why can't the father demand proof or the courts make it mandatory for the mother to present evidence that the payments benefit the child?
I see "Mistress" in your title. Tell me "Mistress" where are these "good women" who care about children disgusted by these women who spent the CS payments on themselves? Why aren't all these"pro family" men and women fighting to make it mandatory for the mother to prove the she is spending the money on the child?
Also, if it is indeed "support for the child", explain these cases of women getting pissed that once the child reaches a certain age and CS payments cease.
You want the answer? The answer is that people are lying. Not only that but the truth is that people don't care about the children at all. If it was really about the child, the issues I brought up would have been addressed long ago. The fact is humanity cares more about LOOKING good than actually doing good.
[–]AllahHatesFags1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Better that the child starves than me.
[–]MCDownlow10 points11 points12 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
All births, outside of marriage, should be presumed the sole responsibility of women. Men should have to opt-in, not opt-out by some arbitrary deadline, because women will just keep it a secret until after the deadline has expired.
[–]Tommie0152 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
You cannot know she is pregnant when you fucked her, but you know damn well she can get pregnant. Men can bail then, women can't. Hence we share the responsibility.
If you don't want to take that, wear a condom.
[–]MCDownlow2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
So, by that same logic, you can argue that abortions should be illegal. It's called consistency. Every argument for men's responsibility is an argument for women's responsibility. Try again.
[–]Tommie0153 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Why should abortion be illegal? Because there are condoms? Thats just one step away from abstinence only...
[–]MCDownlow5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
You're really equating abortion with condoms? Women know damn well they can get pregnant without a condom or another prophylactic. They can bail then, the unborn can't. Your logic. Try again.
[–]Tommie0151 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Well, there are a few unborn baby's in a used condom as well
[–]MCDownlow2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
OK, I'm done. You're either a troll or too blinded by your ideology to see it's logical inconsistencies.
[–]Ymoh-0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Why should abortion be illegal?
Because every argument in favor of men’s responsibility by virtue of “you could have taken measures to prevent pregnancy” is equally valid in arguing against abortion... by virtue of “you could have taken measures to prevent pregnancy”
[–]curiouslyengaged6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Women always play both sides - even feminists embrace patriarchy when convenient as the patriarchy(tradcon laws) is the one who is making men pay child support and alimony.
[–]blackpillmgtow8 points9 points10 points 6 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link
These philosophical arguments don't matter. At the end of the day, it comes down to the tax payer not wanting to pay the tab. If the "father" has the ability to pay, they will force him to pay. If Chad/Tyrone is a deadbeat and can't pay, then the government has no choice but to tax all the wage cucks to pay for it.
This is the dilemma with the typical libertarian MGTOW mentality. You can't be all like "not my taxes, not my taxes" and at the same time say "oh but don't make the man pay if he doesn't want to." The only way you can have your cake and eat it too is if you force women to have abortions and sterilize them (eugenics). WHICH IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
[–]LambeauLeapt3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The subscribers to this sub are the ones who need to receive forced sterilization. I hope to fucking Christ almighty that none of you ever find a woman stupid enough to let you put your teeny tiny pencil dick in unprotected. This world is already going towards idiocracy; we do not need to add to it, ffs.
[–]JoelDubs1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Women can have jobs right? And pay for their own shit?
[–]blackpillmgtow-1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Of course they can. But do we live in libertarian fantasy land or do we live in reality? Just give them the subsidized abortions and birth control. Because you damn well know that the government isn't going to end welfare for single moms. That is a false choice and you know it. I would rather have subsidized abortion than subsidizing a single mom's child care. This is an issue of pragmatism. The more single moms have abortions. The more women use birth control. The less single moms we have.
The Republican Party needs to abandon the religious right once and for all. Because those nutjobs are responsible for the single mom epidemic. Let the Democrats kill those fucking babies.
[–]omega_dawg935 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
anybody want to go to a comedy show? if so, just visit ANY child support court and pay attention to what is said by the ladies and the judges.
you'll hear stuff like, "i don't care who the father is... the child's needs are the issue. you WILL pay!!"
and my favorite: "it's too late now... the child is here. and for the best interest of the child, i am making YOU responsible."
in both cases, the judges don't have a single fuck to give about DNA, making the biological father responsible, etc.
as long as a man pays... ANY man, it's all good.
[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I think if a woman gets pregnant and the dad doesn't want to be around, it's the woman's fault. Shoulda picked em better or kept your legs shut
[–]AllahHatesFags0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Or she can get an abortion.
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yeah why not just murder everyone
[–]Gmiou3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Have a 21yo in Denmark.... Suppose daughter.......... was fucking her mother for a week twice. 21 years now danish gov chasing me to pay all they spent on her with interest. This bitch was fucking other dudes in the same time. Nobody asked me or checked if im the actual father. Me... Don't give a shit cause im in a wonderful country that those things can't touch me. Still.... Had effect in my ex marriages and family. Still i don't give a shit and refused to pay a cent!
[–]rachmaninoffkills5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I think this goes for the other way around as well. A woman can decide to terminate her pregnancy or give her child up for adoption without the consent of the father or even informing him. I get that it's the woman carrying the baby, suffering the physical stress of bearing the child, but still, the father doesn't have a say at all and I think that's wrong. I found out about these issues in a great documentary called The Red Pill, that I think everyone who cares about these issues should watch. Keep in mind that I'm a woman, that documentary was done by a woman, and neither I or it are for the red pill movement.
[–]Drakaris1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It's really awesome, isn't it?
Cunt: "I don't want the baby so I'm getting an abortion." Man: "But I want you to keep it..." Cunt: : "Hah, well, fuck you, no one cares what you want, "my body, my choice". Oh, and btw you're paying for it." Man: "I will not!" Cunt: "Doesn't even matter, ALL men will pay for it with their taxes, you included, ROFLMAO."
Cunt: "I don't want the baby so I'm getting an abortion."
Man: "But I want you to keep it..."
Cunt: : "Hah, well, fuck you, no one cares what you want, "my body, my choice". Oh, and btw you're paying for it."
Man: "I will not!"
Cunt: "Doesn't even matter, ALL men will pay for it with their taxes, you included, ROFLMAO."
Or the other version, my personal favorite:
Cunt: "Yea, I'm keeping the baby." Man: "But... we can't..." Cunt: "LEL, who cares what you can or want? "My body, my choice". Oh, and btw you are paying for it AND ME for the next couple of decades. Oh, and since I'm such stronk independent fish and pooped a human, you'll be paying for me for the rest of your life, LELELEL!" Man: "But... I can't, I don't have that much money..." Cunt: "Hello? 911? The father of my child can't pay for it AND ME. Enjoy jail, asshole. I'll take whatever little you have left anyway AND the rest of it from the government welfare, that is from other men's taxes. Ah, life as a stronk independent fish single mom who destroyed a man's life and is leeching of all other men is so "hard", ROFLMAO!"
Cunt: "Yea, I'm keeping the baby."
Man: "But... we can't..."
Cunt: "LEL, who cares what you can or want? "My body, my choice". Oh, and btw you are paying for it AND ME for the next couple of decades. Oh, and since I'm such stronk independent fish and pooped a human, you'll be paying for me for the rest of your life, LELELEL!"
Man: "But... I can't, I don't have that much money..."
Cunt: "Hello? 911? The father of my child can't pay for it AND ME. Enjoy jail, asshole. I'll take whatever little you have left anyway AND the rest of it from the government welfare, that is from other men's taxes. Ah, life as a stronk independent fish single mom who destroyed a man's life and is leeching of all other men is so "hard", ROFLMAO!"
...don't you think that as a species we are fucked beyond repair when bringing a new life to this world or ending it prematurely has become... just a business for money? And ofc that's not even the biggest issue here. It is the fact that the man is in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't""fucked if you do, super fucked sideways if you don't" situation without any authority, any saying, only paying no matter what the vagina decides?
[–]nunhgrader1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Amen sister
[–]manspray1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
imagine this, girl says she prego... i want to part of his/her life(the guy), no you cant(the girl), but you have to pay for it(the girl). fucked me up real bad, thank goodness she was not prego. just a ploy to get leverage over me to control me,and it takes two to tango so own up or gtfo.
[–]cleats4u1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Oh man, feminists are going to send a goon squad after this woman.
[–]Retromind3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
women reasoning and common sense
women
reasoning and common sense
Does not compute
[–]Retromind2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Wrong sub, cunt. Get out.
[–]morerokk-1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Oh look, more brigaders from IncelTears.
[–]mappledumplings1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It's not about making men pay so they have to "take responsibility for their actions" or to punish them, it's for the wellbeing of the child.
[–]Appleseed123331 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I have a more exact opinion on the matter. I see us reverting back to an older system. One where if an unwed woman had a child, she and she only has claim over the child, but if a wedded woman has a child, her husband has sole claim over the child, except in cases of infidelity. Marriage is designed to create a long term stable environment for raising kids. I concede marriage laws need to be changed if you don't want to force all men to give up having kids.
Child support is a scam. The government doesn't give 2 shits whether or not the child is getting Adequate resources. They clean up on lawyer and court fees. Same with alimony.
[–]AntiAbleism1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
So true, but we all know that women are not responsible for their actions.
[–]lulz3r1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Preach!
[–]khalifs_dinkies1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Some how, some way, young men need to be educated at a pretty early age about just how biased the so-called "family" courts are in the US (it's bad elsewhere too, but my only experience is in the US).
I'm totally pro-abortion, pro-choice, whatever you want to call it. Women should be able to choose if they want to bring a baby into the world or not. I totally get and support that.
But holy shit, so many young men, myself included at that age, have utterly no idea that they will have ZERO rights or say in the matter if their choice doesn't align with her choice.
You want the kid but she doesn't? It's gone. End of story. Okay, maybe you wanted to be a father. So go get some other woman pregnant who actually wants children.
She wants the kid but you don't? Tough shit pal, you're going to pay out the ass for 18 years and may not even be able to see your own child. Or at best you may have very limited contact. Oh, and your kid will likely grow up hating you too.
Anyway, new to MGTOW (heard about this sub from all the drama on reddit about incels getting banned), and just had to vent here after seeing this. Young men, tread carefully. Look out for what's best for yourself because when push comes to shove, nobody else will do it for you. That's all I can say.
[–]SnapshillBot0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–]EconomistMagazine0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I unsubbed from my second favorite sub Reddit for this very reason. /R/Changemyview used to be great but after barking up the same tree one too many times I figured society doesn't give a shit about logic or fairness.
So I walked away and went Monk. Ignoring women has been the best life decision I've ever made.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Karen McCrow was sent to a Re-Education Camp the next day.
[–]Flaye20 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
At the end of the day, if you get tangled in this mess the only option is to run.
[–]Taiken-Saviour0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Men get raped a quite a bit and it’s always ignored,false rape victims don’t get anonymity and get their lives ruined (mostly because they were to busy being manginas to notice that their gf is busy calling police services),Women usually get rigged to win custody cases,there is no program in place to make sure wether they were using the money for them selves,Discrimination for being single.......Might as well cut off my dick and get an Vasectomy!
[–]TealRaven170 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
But, a man can always sign his rights away. No child support, no visitation, no contact, nothing. You don’t HAVE to pay.
[–]KenSimmonds-1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Should've put a nobsock on.
Or not have sex.
So, NAWALT?!
Anyone saying it's OK to murder an innocent child, regardless who's making the "choice" is an extremely dangerous and murderous, evil person.
[+][deleted] 6 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
[–]williamcoolman10 points11 points12 points 6 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
What if it fails?
[+][deleted] 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
[–]williamcoolman5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Whether it's hard to decide upon I think is irrelevant. Would you rather a hard decision or no decision in this instance?
I'm all for females right to abortion, but that does not mean they get to have it state funded. They want state funding for abortions, state funding for the baby when it's born and forced welfare from the father that had no choice. Mother -> has choices -> state funded. Father -> no choices -> pay for a lifetime or go to jail you lowlife.
Saying that there's consequences to defunding abortion is basically absolving the female of any responsibility for the choices that she has the ability to make.
[–]williamcoolman3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
If this happened to me, and it was a money issue, I would gladly pay for the abortion 5 times over. But it isn't the mans choice, that's the whole point. I can't just pay for the abortion if the woman doesn't consent to it. I would only be paying the abortion if she has already made the choice to have one, a thing in which I have no say in. So why should I bear that responsibility alone if the decision is completely out of my hands.
You seem to be creating a situation in which the female has no responsibilty, but putting it all on the man. In no circumstance have I ever said the man has no responsibility.
But I've taken all the precautions I can to avoid pregnancy. There is an accident. The girl gets pregnant. Now we have a situation where 1 of the participants of sex has a choice, the other is now at the whim of the other person and is backed by the state. Saying people should co-opt the responsibility is unfair due to the unfair nature of the decision making.
[+][deleted] 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]williamcoolman2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
Yeah, I get you. What do you think of this situation though.
Women likes to have sex all day every day without protection. She can be as reckless as she likes with no consequences in regards to pregnancy because she knows she has the final say in the matter. Any accidents can quickly be rectified if it is chosen and no one has the burden of childcare or monetary obligations.
Man likes to have sex all day every day without protection. He can be as reckless as he likes, but he risks all the consequences that came with pregnancy because the other person has all the say.
I agree that a man should take all the precautions available to him. But saying something like you shouldn't have sex if you can't handle the consequence or aren't "mature" enough is exactly the same as telling a girl she can't have an abortion because pregnancy is the consequence of sex.
EDIT: As far as I'm concerned the details of a person becoming pregnant are completely irrelevant to this issue. Women and men are equal in deciding to have sex or not. Men and woman are clearly not equal in deciding anything after that.
[–]williamcoolman2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I don't have unprotected sex. I was merely making a situation where there is clearly an inequality in rights after conception.
It's great that you have that position in regards to the father not having to shoulder the burden of your choice if he doesn't want the baby. But not everyone thinks that way.
You can talk like this about the issue because you are a woman and you have the choice and have made that choice before. Imagine that choice being taken from you, or better yet, being given to the father. How do you feel now?
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Oh... two to tango, eh? Good joke. Also this.
[–]Kawaii_Knight9 points10 points11 points 6 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
Damn you got us right where it hurts. I have never felt so ashamed in my life! Except maybe the myriad of other times basic bitches thought we gave a fuck about what they think.
[–]equality2000-4 points-3 points-2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Damn you got us right were it hurts. I have never felt so ashamed in my life!
Edit: Please stop caring so much about what I think.
[–]Kawaii_Knight6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Please stop I can’t take it anymore!
© TheRedArchive 2024. All rights reserved.created by /u/dream-hunter
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