Understanding the 80/20 rule. Don't confuse top .2% for top 20%

Pewdielockz · 2016-10-21T21:48:53+00:00

Yep. People here often only see the perfect redpill man, who lifts and looks like thor, eats healthy, got godlike social skills and earns five figures a month.

Come on, some people can't even manage their living room, the expectationshere are just too high. Fully agree with your post.

untitled1 · 2016-10-21T23:23:10+00:00

One thing I'm constantly surprised by is the abysmal state of men these days. Sometimes it seems like if you can walk up to a woman and string together two coherent sentences you're already in the top 20%.

I was at a bar with some friends and a guy approached one of the girls and said, "My friend thinks your friend is attractive." She shut him down. Really? Doesn't even have the balls to approach on his own?

Ask to look at a girl's Tinder or OKCupid. It's hundreds of messages of "hi :)" and "u r hott". All you have to do is use full sentences and you'll be a shining beacon in a sea of shit.

I got messaged by a cute lesbian looking to experiment. I asked why she picked me of all people. She said, "You didn't look needy." That's how low the bar is - not being overtly needy.

Work on getting your shit together and it's not that hard.

redartist · 2016-10-22T02:18:58+00:00

Your larger point still stands, but this can be deceptive as it ignores income and gender distribution by location.

If you make $130K in Silicon Valley you're not top 20%.

If you're 6'2 in San Jose, while it's very likely that you're still top 20%, because men outnumber women in San Jose (better known as Man Jose) it might not be enough by itself for you to pull quality ass consistently.

Again, OP's point is correct - just remember that your local SMP maybe very different from what is average.

Adjust accordingly.

MyTrapsCauterize · 2016-10-21T21:52:09+00:00

If you're young and white the numbers aren't as bad, and if you're in the bar crowd it's obviously going to trend a lot leaner. Overall though, yeah everyone around you is fat unless I'm at the gym.

offthebeatmeoff · 2016-10-22T03:35:17+00:00

I like the sentiment, and I'll come back to why you're mostly right here, but I'm going to bring up a few key flaws with your argument. The biggest, by far, is that the top 20% means the top 20% of your dating pool, or rather the perceived dating pool of whichever girl you happen to be going after, and dating pools are more restrictive than you're accounting for. Let's consider some of your examples.

If you make a HOUSEHOLD income of $130,000 you're in the top 10% financially in the USA according to the census bureau

If you're at a major college in the US, you're dealing with women who have already selected out ~40% of the population entirely. These women have very little equal-standing social interaction with non-college educated men. So you have to be in the top 20% of the top 60% to really make an impression with your money.

About 74% of men in the USA are obese or overweight

Remember we're talking about the average red pill man's dating pool here. That probably means college or working young professionals in a metropolitan area. You're going to see far lower incidence of obesity in young people in those crowds. Common sense tells me that being in the top 20% for fitness means you lift weights and don't eat like shit. Bar's still pretty low, but requires some effort.

Most average guys dress like shit. If you match your clothes well and make sure they fit well then chances are you're in the top 20% of men with respect to style.

This depends on the area as well as your age. In college this was incredibly true. After college I moved to a lower class city and found it to be slightly less true (because men got older and dressed for work), but still fairly true. However, I moved to a wealthier, major metropolitan area recently and have found that dressing well is the norm, and when I visit friends in Boston, New York, DC, or San Francisco, guys are dressed very well.

Now that I'm done bashing on your post, I'm going to point out that you're completely right, but for a different reason. Mostly, you don't have to be the top 20% for everything. In fact, if you're in the top 20% for everything, you're probably in the top 5% overall. You simply don't need to be that impressive to get laid on a regular basis.

Kryptic_Knight · 2016-10-21T21:35:21+00:00

About 74% of men in the USA are obese or overweight

WTF. Is it really that bad there?

14thBaseline · 2016-10-22T01:09:55+00:00

I have a latent belief that a secondary 80/20 split exists within top 20% demo of all men. The guys in the bottom 80% of the top 20 only compare themselves to the top of the top.

Sort of like what high value women do...

offthebeatmeoff · 2016-10-21T23:31:51+00:00

You need to remember that many people here are here precisely because they are not getting enough pussy, which means they likely werent (at first) in the top 20%. Keep working on yourself and always try to be better in a realistic way

offthebeatmeoff · 2016-10-22T05:28:39+00:00

My boss in the army spat redpill daily and u never knew till recently. He said this little gem. (Paraphrasing)

"It's not hard to be above average. Look around you. Everyone is a fat fuck and soft as shit. Mediocre is the new standard."

I am not anywhere near my best and the few times I go outside women notice me. Most guys are either visibly fat or scrawny. Then you gotta account for beta mindset.

It's stupid easy to be a top 20%. If you are capable of passing a highschool gym exam, your only issue is the gaming of chicks to show you aren't beta.

offthebeatmeoff · 2016-10-21T22:53:21+00:00

For those unfamiliar, the 80/20 Rule states that 80% of women are having sex or dating only 20% of men. This is based on the Pareto Prinicple, which states that often times 80% of effects are from 20% of causes. Named after an Italian (Pareto) in the early 20th century who noted that 80% of the land was owned by 20% of the poplulation, and 80% of the peas in his garden where from 20% of the pods.

I don't think it's quite accurate with regards to men/women relations. It might be more like 60/30. To be in the top 30 you have to have a SMV of 8/10 or higher.

offthebeatmeoff · 2016-10-21T22:40:48+00:00

This is so important.

There's too much "why do I even bother, I'll never get there anyway" going on.

offthebeatmeoff · 2016-10-21T21:59:56+00:00

It's probably a little frivolous to go into more detail about this but I was wondering about it still. For example I was reading a study of attention paid to men on online dating based on how much they reported their income. Men who were shorter had to make like 10000 dollars more annually per inch each inch below 6'0 to get the same amount amount of attention as 6'0+ men. I was wondering if other traits could be similarly quantifiable.

Stythe · 2016-10-21T23:44:48+00:00

This is a good reminder for me. I tend to expect to much of myself and whike it helps me strive farther, it can be exhausting. It's something I constantly remind myself of and try to relax a bit. I actually enjoyed your info, it was not only relieving but also interesting, I've never thought about what early the top 20% is in terms of statistics.

That's totally achievable to me and more importantly, when I achieving it, I will work past it. I've already hit a number of those things anyway.

vaalkaar · 2016-10-22T03:10:10+00:00

TIL that I'm in the bottom 20% for height and that I'm a whore 😂

furiKuriTRP · 2016-10-22T03:46:43+00:00

a survey showed that millennials on average had a total of 8 sexual partners (both genders). We know that number is probably lower for guys and higher for girls (on average)

I see this misunderstanding a lot. On average, men have the same number of sexual partners as women, as long as we're staying strictly heterosexual.

All sexual partners together then result in a bipartite graph, btw.

sonder_one · 2016-10-22T03:48:21+00:00

And if you're 5'11, 185 after years of lifting, with an income over $130k, and still getting nowhere with women, then you know that apparently top 20% isn't good enough.

reddestlurker · 2016-10-22T10:05:50+00:00

"If you make a HOUSEHOLD income of $130,000 you're in the top 10% financially in the USA according to the census bureau"

If you made this in Kenya, you would be in the top 1%. To redpillers in the USA who still strongly feel they want children but know the dire consequences of marriage under your insane family laws, move to Africa, Philipines or Thailand. Even if it means just coming over here, getting a girl knocked up and then vanishing. Spread your genes by all means. Move, or plan to do it. Every man in your lineage from Adam(if you believe creation) to you has passed on his genes to the next generation, don't be the guy who voluntarily let down all those gallant men before you.

2016-10-22T02:16:01+00:00

I would like to point out that 130k is top 10% for HOUSEHOLD income.. Not individual..

There is another website for individual.. 80k will put you in the top 10%

feminists_are_dumb · 2016-10-22T12:50:51+00:00

I get what you are trying to say, but some of your numbers are wrong, and you haven't taken into account the bell-shaped curve of natural distributions.

The average height for adult males in the US is only 5'9" and because of clustering around that number, being 6'2" or taller actually puts you in the top 5% not top 20%.

Also, the average woman is only 5'4". Being 6'2" and dating someone 5'4" actually sucks pretty bad. Despite what some cunty bitches will say, being ~4 inches taller (i.e. the average height differential between men and women at pretty much any sigma) than whomever you are dating is enough to get that hamster in her head to shut the fuck up.

offthebeatmeoff · 2016-10-22T04:39:17+00:00

Thanks bruh. When you break it down like that I am a fuck of a catch and it shows at times, I do know a woman's passion for the first time in the last couple years... a life of serial LTRs and I've seldom tasted passion but I get it on every lay now (tho lays are still rare).

Many other times though, I live in NYC / SF / LA / Boston and am totally overshadowed in some ways. I don't even get to hello for example, if I'm at certain clubs where everyone is over 6" (bouncers always let me in, generally 2 drink max sober and well dressed when I am out... but obviously sometimes I get sausage line, but if it's going to be hot I know ahead of time and go at door open and hang all night (I mostly go to clubs where I've vetted the DJ when I fly solo).

That said, I've noticed that if I just remain confident that I am the shit, despite all these other people who are probably also the shit around me, I can still do okay. It's so much about your demeanor when you open them up. "Hey!" wait for eye contact and hi followed by some random chat like "what are you up to tonight?" or even better a comment if I can infer why she's out. Just like talking to people or something. But if you're a solid dude even if you're short, door open and she now doesn't really care how tall you are and will get in the car with you or whatever. Kinda rambling now, personally I am finding shorter / petite is easier to have my way with, probably a bio/physiological block when I'm with a girl who could maybe fight me... but I'm not stranger to taller girlfriends who like heels, for sure.

VoiceApprentice10 · 2016-10-23T13:39:36+00:00

I have been slowly realizing the same thing over time: every time I see a guy with a decent-looking gal (which even for them, the bar for being boner-inducing isn't even that high either - just don't be a fat fuck), is the guy some 6'4" male model with piercing blue eyes, a body like a Greek god, a chin that could split atoms, a voice like James Earl Jones, has visited outer space and every single country, speaks five languages, just finished a PhD from Harvard and is the lead singer in a band? Nope. Rather he is just another person who decided to take care of himself, inside and out, put his life purpose before everything else, is overall confident in himself (which includes being able to hold frame, not take criticism/rejection like a bitch, stands up for himself when boundaries are crossed, and able to accept his flaws and dark side) and has the balls to approach the chick.

Hell, I'm just a skinny, young, nerdy guy that plays golf in his spare time and is earning his math degree and I just got my first plate by simply taking the lead in the interaction and holding frame.

rot_barth · 2016-10-21T23:00:31+00:00

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diablo_fuentes · 2016-10-22T00:04:57+00:00

I remember using online dating as a 5'11" averagesized athletic 23 year old still in school and had no problem getting dates.

On the other hand some groups of guys will have a steep curve to overcome: -asians -Indians -Latinos (small extent) -guys under 5'9" -guys with aspergers or other disabilities on the autism spectrum -guys with a propensity to store a lot of fat -guys with extremely small frames (tiny wrists) -extreme social anxiety

In fact I will go as far as to say that most guys who seek girl advice fall into one of the above categories.

Edit: some guys are worried so I'll set some things straight. Some of those problems such as aspergers, or fat can be solved with hard work and patience. Others such as height, race, and bone structure are permanent but you can either mitigate them through hard work or you can over compensate by really excelling in another area.

offthebeatmeoff · 2016-10-22T00:58:50+00:00

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KV-n · 2016-10-22T02:49:48+00:00

Idgaf about a general population, i must compare myself to my peers and if ido so the result is really bad. Im very probably in the bottom 20%.

offthebeatmeoff · 2016-10-22T06:03:34+00:00

This is a feel good post. Your percentile in aggregation does not matter at all. What matters is where you stand in your surrounding.

For example, if you draw the boundary beyond USA you're probably top 0.01%, but what if you're surrounded by people more successful and good looking than you? Will the women around you bow down because of you're still top 0.01% of the world?

Nope.

AceBenedict23 · 2016-10-22T06:11:21+00:00

I don't think this is necessarily true. I might be living proof.

I'm 6'5 200lb and lean. In college but have relatively good amount of money because I have a part time gig and very little expenses. I play a sport here as well.

Have a newer than 2010 car that's well maintained. I think (key word think) that I dress decently. Get haircuts and beard lineups weekly.

I've tried to internalized the sidebar. Read 48 laws of power, read how to win friends and influence people etc. In general I'm a good conversationalist.

But based on just looks or SMV there's no way I'm top 20%. I always hear guys talk about "I got IOI's because I saw her looking at me while I was doing blah blah, she said I was cute" etc.

Maybe I'm just completely oblivious but apart from here and there a girl sliding in my IG DM's or a fatty trying to talk to me in person, I don't get all the obvious looks and smiles that I keep hearing RP guys talk about. I don't think its as easy as you make it sound.

I would consider myself to be in "monk mode" but at the same time I still see girls everywhere.

I'm not sure how much more I can tweak to get clearly into the top 20%. Would love to hear your thoughts.

HuddsMagruder · 2016-10-22T06:51:42+00:00

For a different perspective, 20% is just 1 out of 5. That means if you head out in the evening with four other guys all you have to do is present yourself as number one in that group.

Putting forth a little bit of effort in fashion, getting a proper haircut, eating right, and exercising, just that little bit of effort in each of those areas will put you ahead of the game.

Push yourself over that initial sticking point most guys have about starting a conversation and you're golden. That, combined with the rest, ups you to one in ten.

anonlymouse · 2016-10-22T07:56:54+00:00

I've tried convincing a lot of friends to go to the gym, giving them every possible tip I could think of, going to the gym right when it opens and is empty so they don't need to be self-conscious, how to approach lifts to minimize injury risk, how to avoid and minimize DOMS, what to do with bodyweight if they don't have money. Every (semi) valid concern I gave an answer to.

They don't do it.

If you consistently go to the gym, you're in the top 20%.

nzgs · 2016-10-22T09:09:33+00:00

People have a tendency to think you have to be a slayer otherwise you're a sexual failure. Most sexually successful guys aren't slayers or even close.

stawek · 2016-10-22T13:55:27+00:00

Therefore, if you are at healthy weight you are pretty much in the top 20%, and if you have a good body you're probably in the top 5%.

This is incorrect. Being short, skinny guy is worse than being reasonably tall, reasonably muscular and slightly overweight. Reason is simple - you are smaller than most woman (because they are overweight themselves) and as such disqualified as a male.

kanyewost · 2016-10-22T13:55:53+00:00

People often forget, fat fucks, male feminists, autists, betas and cuckolds are in the 100% total, you beat them by default feel good for fucks sake people.

offthebeatmeoff · 2016-10-22T15:19:03+00:00

I'm 5'6, I don't wash my hair and it looks like Hank Moody, I wear t shirts and jeans, I live with my parents, play video games instead of get an education, I go swimming instead of lifting.

I have been approached and gotten play from approaching myself, am I top 20%?

PantsonFire1234 · 2016-10-22T15:25:44+00:00

that number is probably lower for guys and higher for girls (on average)

Well isn't that fucking sad? You'd almost think women were men and men were women. We should hand them over our sperm and let them spread it for mankind instead. We'll take care of the womb.

Women are batshit insane if they think that having high N-counts is anything but an indicator of low value. Anyone here that's seen what pregnancy does to the female body and her looks?

That's just after one kid

Birthcontrol and western culture has allowed women to remain somewhat functional after slutting it up. But make no mistake, there is a price. Just like the beta faggot that's always best friends with some money leaching girl. The price is payed, indirectly.

Oh and on topic of your post. You are absolutely right that the top 20% is not that hard to break. It's also relative, take all the top 20% of the country and put them at Coachella and you might be bottom 80%. But after all the druggies have left California you're back to 20% in your neighborhood. It's a good thought to know, though I see no reason why any man with above average genetics shouldn't strive to be top 1%.

offthebeatmeoff · 2016-10-22T15:39:56+00:00

Great post.

Here's an exercise for people to try. The next time you leave your house look at the first nine men in the street and compare them to yourself.

Chances are that you're already in the top two if you're already browsing this sub.

offthebeatmeoff · 2016-10-23T02:21:49+00:00

I'm only 5' 7" in a town of about 100k. I started hitting the gym 4x/week about 7 months ago, and have dropped to about 12%. Have a 225 bench at reps, arms and shoulders that stand out, and visible veins in my arms when I wear a short sleeved shirt.

Once I started getting compliments a few months ago from girls like, "Those pants look great on you" or "you smell so good (when I'm not wearing any cologne)" I knew I had raised my value enough to start succeeding. To me this was a green light to start gaming hard.

It's very, very, very obvious when you've hit the point to be top 20/10/5%, and you can tell. Just keep improving and one day, you realize you're just now climbing through the upper echelons of men.

I should mention I also work at a nightclub part time when I'm not tied up in my web design business, do the lighting system, and am starting to DJ there on weekends also. All of which helps.

2016-10-26T08:21:23+00:00

The problem is it takes a lot of work to get some validation and even if you get to a good level women will just give signals but not jump on you outright.

That's how you can have the good looking beta.

Being a savage who doesn't give a fuck while looking reasonably good is a lot more valuable. If you're super aggressive there'll always be girls down to fuck even if you dress like shit and have no money like lots of roid raging bodybuilders. Quelling the invading tribe by offering sex is kind of a default setting in the female brain.

ArkAngelEV · 2016-10-22T17:16:52+00:00

I want to follow up with this. http://strengthlevel.com/ . If you want a top 20% girl in physical beauty, you better be at least in the top 20% of strength for your age group. Period. It doesn't make sense to cry and bitch about not hooking up with ms. hottie HB9+ if you aren't at their level. Work up to it.

Title	Understanding the 80/20 rule. Don't confuse top .2% for top 20%
Author	offthebeatmeoff
Upvotes	313
Comments	184
Date	October 21, 2016 9:27 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/58pqyu/understanding_the_8020_rule_dont_confuse_top_2/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/understanding-the-8020-rule-dont-confuse-top-2-for.63843 https://theredarchive.com/post/63843