[Discussion] The reason this sub constantly repeats the same talking point is because of an aversion to studying systemic problems

cheezypussy · 2020-10-30T20:10:00+00:00

That's why you can't take this community too seriously. What I've noticed being here for a while is that a lot of the people here are very emotionally attached to this conversation. Which makes it hard to have a productive conversation, they just want an easy answer as go why they were screwed over by the opposite gender. Its a lot easier to point your finger when you see the rise of loneliness then the think of the socioeconomic factors, ESPECIALLY when you're the victim to said loneliness epidemic.

Yeah debating here can be fun but thats it, nothing productive will ever come from a sub like this. If I want to have a real conversation about gender relations I'm not going to talk to a 40yo redpiller about it.

DownVotesWrongsOnly · 2020-10-30T18:38:18+00:00

I think the users just cycle through

reluctantly_red · 2020-10-30T18:50:50+00:00

People like believing that they are in control. The external factors doesn't influence them or others.

Dating works in differently in different classes, races, cultures, etc.

But for some reason many people want to only divide people up by sexes and only focus on that.

passepar2t · 2020-10-30T18:41:07+00:00

That's because everyone here cosplays as a carefree UMC winner-winner-caviar-dinner. Acknowledging the bleak economic realities of late stage capitalism clashes with their costumes.

NotGoingoutofMW · 2020-10-30T21:45:27+00:00

This economic state right now is obviously the best regarding getting food on the table. That's just it. Other than that while technically a 40h/Week job leaves enough time any employer is doing about 7-10 times more work per hour than 40 years ago easily. That kind compressed mass of work has in fact mental tiredness as symptom. Furthermore the requirements from the companies are also skyrocking. A car? mandatory. Being flexible? ofc. Sorry we can't pay more than 40k/year (while the friend of the friend of someone gets the good job underhand). You don't have a network? Sorry we need this too (without paying it cause you need to have it beforehand building and maintain it in the leisure time).

Back then you could maintain a hell of a good lifestyle with simple manual labor due reduced living costs. You just applied or asked and proved potential within one week and done. Nowadays even applying is a shit show with huge "taken for granted requirements applicants have to meet" if someone don't meet enough another will. Scary how it can explain woman dating standars lol.

Christian_Kong · 2020-10-30T21:12:13+00:00

People don't bring up higher costs of living, decaying small towns, overwork, the gig economy, the abuse of religion, untreatable mental illness, etc.

People bring up mental illness. People sometimes bring up the financial situation of individuals. People constantly bring up modern technology. I think you are taking in way too many factors for what is otherwise simple.

Up until the age of the popular dating app(late 00's-early 10's) the choice for dating for women and men was based on where you lived, who you knew, where you hung out. Things often came down to plain old luck. The advent of OLD and the normalization of chat based communication(think, write, edit, send) along with "hook up culture"(summarizes a few things) I think make up most of why things are the way they are.

Men have to compete with other men to attract women. Women, while there is competition, simply have to wait for men to come to them. Instead of a mix of people in a social scene bouncing off eachother and working things out and in a way staking their claim/taking their shots; men and women can essentially simultaneously chat with every interested person in a multi-hundred mile radius.

So men aren't competing with Chad for the one hottest woman in the room, leaving other women free for approach/seduction/etc. It's essentially a bar where multiple Chads are chatting up every woman in the room, and every other guy in the bar is trying to chat up those women too. It's a disaster because average guys don't have a chance against the Chads, who have access to every woman in the room and even if a woman isn't into them they have access to 1000 other average guys.

Simply put one gender has too many seemingly high quality choices as to where to focus their attention while the other gender can't compete against those high quality choices since the high quality choices can talk to everyone at once. All the other shit you listed isn't really where it's at. If anything a distant, distant second place.

The dating game has had the odds adjusted, in the favor of those who were already the big winners.

seehrovoloccip · 2020-10-31T06:50:34+00:00

Thank fucking Christ there actually ARE non-morons on this subreddit! No shit that dating has gotten harder because the economy has been decaying for decades, all other attempts to dance around this actual reality are worthless; dating is shit because men are fucking poor and can't move out of the house.

iAmKilSmil · 2020-10-31T12:02:23+00:00

I agree that loneliness, capitalism and mental health do have a big impact, but I think there is a way bigger elephant in the room.

I think it mostly comes down to sexuality of men and women and what society expects from these binary gender roles. Which is usually that men get subjectivied and women objectivied. My opinion is, that if these gender roles finally change or get abolished so that every human can see eye to eye, dating will be so much easier for everyone involved, also for unattractive people since they wouldn't be forced to become something they're not to even stand a chance

reluctantly_red · 2020-10-30T19:07:53+00:00

Why talk about economics so much if the people that cant put two nickles together are having all the sex and babies. The true issue is social accountability. Women couldnt handle that. So nothing will ever progress. You could make everyone a millionaire and it wont change the realities discussed here.

AnalGodZepp · 2020-10-30T18:31:52+00:00

they should teach economy in hentai

alrightpal · 2020-10-30T18:56:00+00:00

If you can’t get laid you only have yourself to blame, sorry boyz and girls.

The3liGator · 2020-10-30T19:15:31+00:00

People don't bring up higher costs of living, decaying small towns, overwork, the gig economy,

The poor have the most children

John_Oakman · 2020-10-30T20:40:00+00:00

A lot of the systematic issues are considered off topic though, which's why I only posted those during purge week.

Turning_blades · 2020-10-30T21:04:00+00:00

Well unlike blue pill and FDS, TRP does address this. Red pillers point to women entering the workforce, birth control pill, legal abortions, family legal system that is stacked against men, the education system catering to girls at the expense of boys, over diagnosis of boys with ADHD, etc. Etc.

John_Magnus · 2020-10-31T02:57:40+00:00

Finally, this sub is evolving. While I find it interesting, I find the constant battle of the sexes boring and repetitive. It is more interesting to discuss systemic issues in relation to economics, morality, political structures, etc. and how that relates to relations between the sexes.

moresleepy1 · 2020-10-31T04:01:37+00:00

Yeah a large part of the problem is financial. the former model we were running under was financial and cultural dominance over women. technology and the economy has liberated women from that condition. are you suggesting that we artificially go back to those conditions. I don't think we should for the record.

joesmithasdf · 2020-10-31T12:12:47+00:00

Keep the audience on mind. Did you think about the bubble we live in on Reddit? The pills and related subs (fds etc) lean very American, conservative, older, introvert... so debating collective understanding and solutions won’t get anywhere. You’d probably get different answers on European subs.

cuckspace · 2020-10-30T19:01:28+00:00

The gig economy of dating and sex is largely to blame for the problems often discussed here. The main problem is of course rooted in nature, but the unlimited liberty of the current culture, aided by technology, has eroded the sexual morals that are foundational for the survival of civilization.

Tinder and other similar dating apps have ruined dating. Seeking Arrangement and OnlyFans have made prostitution and pornography go mainstream and middle class. After covid everybody and their grandma is selling sex-starved men access to their pornographic photos and videos.

What is the solution? I don’t know. Millenials and anyone older who is not paired up already is pretty much fucked. Someone said the younger generations are more traditional and waking up to the pitfalls of smart phones and social media. I hope they’re right.

The3liGator · 2020-10-30T19:26:58+00:00

In this case I do agree with some points but I do wonder how much of what we are seeing is being amplified because we have a wider platform that connects us with loads of people round the world.

I have the feeling that advancements in technology may also be fuelling some of these issues regarding body image issues. Way too many people photoshop thier pictures on Instagram and even use filters in videos.

That and the algorithms on other social media sites, you may search up something once and then get bombarded with things similar to that search which makes it seem like whatever topic you were interested is everywhere. Say you google something about someone cheating, then stories of cheaters popping up in all of my god damn shit and it looks like everyone is cheating all the time. It can be difficult af to get around that stuff and truly see unbiased results on the internet without having to disable certain settings, use incognito or a VPN.

I'm not actually sure if the whole mental health thing is being inflated by the fact that we are now actually acknowledging mental health issues properly and providing better support and resources for sufferers to reach out. Mental health awareness still needs to be better than what it is mind you but I have the feeling this may make the numbers seem wildly higher than what was actually documented in the past.

I also wonder if some of these issues such as dead bedrooms are becoming popular because there are now worldwide platforms such as Reddit to talk about these issues anonymously and a change in the culture where people can speak more openly about sex related issues.

There is no doubt in my head that materialistic goals have become more difficult to attain which sucks ass. Living in poverty and then coming out of it really showed me personally that money certainly helps a shit done if you want to succeed even in basic things such as school education.

I have spoken with quite a few people form this from across the world and seen that individual's cultures also impacts each other views on these things. I found this to be a main contributor to an inability to relate to others who aren't from backgrounds that are far from similar. I know this isn't at all surprising, but seeing exactly how certain circumstances can completely change how one lives life is interesting even if you are from the same area.

There is no doubt in my mind that there are things that will limit ones capacity to succeed outside of that as well, however there are a lot of people refusing to take accountability for thier own actions which may impact how they are perceived by others outside of thier close bubble.

Also another issue I see us that too many people hide in certain groups that act as an echo chamber for reinforcing thier own personal biases; I too am guilty for that to a short extent.

I think the main reason we don't talk about these things is because those issues are generally shared by the majority; everyone is in this shit economy together. Even the rich will take a hit on some level albeit nowhere near as badly as those on the bottom will.

This sub allows for people of different backgrounds to come together and while one's specific experience in the world may not be a main subject, it certainly influences the answers and responses given.

Grave_Heresy · 2020-10-30T22:37:18+00:00

Lookism has nothing to do with systemic issues and everything to do with human biology.

I suppose you could argue that the hyper-individualism in the West contributes to people low-balling others in sexual negotiations. But that's about it.

BROWN-TOILET-PAPER · 2020-10-30T20:08:39+00:00

The sub is trying to fix systemic issues with individualistic solution

Because 'we' can't fix systemic issues at large. Only work with them. You have a narrow window in your life to make choices for life. You ain't gonna change the system in that time.

Also, the word you should have used, is technology. That's what it all comes down to. We point fingers while the machine laughs.

bonobo-no · 2020-10-30T20:11:21+00:00

Also technology. It's bad, when it gets to the level we're at now, unironically.

2020-10-30T21:07:51+00:00

I agree with you. But these complex web of systemic issues stacked upon one another that produce the various aspects of our current conflicts are themselves in flux.

PPD has its uses as a way for me to understand these problems in their semantics– and no, not as pedantic rhetorics, I mean it per their actual meaning.

Myagooshki4004 · 2020-10-30T23:25:09+00:00

I think you're talking well when you bring up mental illness but... That psychological industrial complex system is an oversimplification of consciousness. Both the individual and the system need to be taken into account. Through many individuals working together we will solve the systemic issues, but it does start with the individual.

Sepean · 2020-10-31T06:39:38+00:00

People don't bring up higher costs of living, decaying small towns, overwork, the gig economy, the abuse of religion, untreatable mental illness, etc.

The problem is men who lack of alpha, period. Some of that is how they’re raised, some of that is cultural influence, some of that is that they think women want beta and not alpha.

Ultimately it is on the weak men to alpha up, but the path to that is that the understanding of dual sexual strategy becomes mainstream.

rft24 · 2020-10-31T15:04:21+00:00

i agree that people in this sub tend to ignore the underlying issues as to why these things are on the rise, but i wouldn’t say it’s because of an aversion to studying systemic problems. i would say it’s mainly because of denial.

women in this sub are constantly telling men the cause of these issues from their pov, and men are constantly telling women the cause of these issues from their pov. many times, neither sex is willing to understand the perspective of the other. instead, they choose to make assumptions about why the opposite sex engages in certain behaviors and they proceed as if their assumption is more correct than the people of the opposite sex who are actually giving them true pov’s as to why they engage in those behaviors.

for example: the deadbedroom conversation. i tend to tell men in this sub that in situations where the woman is withholding sex, the deadbedroom was most likely caused by the man not meeting the woman’s relationship needs or mistreating her in some way. men either respond in denial (saying it’s because of something they assume to be true about women (awalt!)), or they respond with contempt and insults, or they don’t respond at all. i’ve also seen the opposite of this, where men will tell a woman why they engage in a certain behavior, and the woman is refusing to accept the male pov and is continuing to push her assumption as correct (i have also been guilty of this before).

neither party is willing to accept a pov that challenges their belief. that’s why terms like confirmation bias exist, because people hate being wrong. humans actually feel genuine pain when they’re wrong. our brains respond to humiliation (being wrong) the same way they do to physical pain, which explains why people have such a difficult time admitting they’re wrong about something or being open-minded towards pov’s that challenge their own.

to many people, admitting that a challenging pov is true must mean you’re admitting your pov is wrong; it is difficult for people to accept that two opposing ideas can be simultaneously true (because humans struggle with cognitive dissonance, which is mental stress or discomfort experienced by an individual who holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values at the same time). many people feel that to admit you’re wrong is to admit defeat, which (if we’re looking at it from that standpoint) is too humiliating and hurts the ego. it’s easier on our brains and our egos to be strong and wrong than to see validity in an opposing pov or to admit to our own ignorance and proceed with curiosity. the latter half requires a decently high degree of emotional intelligence and an ego that’s not so fragile it prevents you from accepting that you can’t always be right (especially considering that “right” and “wrong” are subjective).

a lot of this sorta stuff is based more on a social or individual level than it is systemic, but i’m sure systemic issues do play a part in some of them (for example: the rise of mental illnesses, or at least people being more open about them).

2020-10-31T20:43:46+00:00

I wouldn’t say this sub is trying to fix anything at all — it’s defective RP brokenness and those who aren’t.

If anyone here actually gave a shit about these things, they’d be sociologists or in politics or policy.

The3liGator · 2020-10-30T18:30:58+00:00

[deleted]

YouSaidChicken · 2020-10-30T19:00:34+00:00

Unlike retards, communism isn’t a solution to anything, and the whole “high cost” Reddit mantra is generally supported by severe losers who can barely succeed at anything.

Things change. People don’t like change, and it’s not just old people.

There’s no “systemic” ideological college navel gazing going on.

Women wanted all the benefits of privileges with zero responsibilities. They want all the money but still want men to adhere to traditional values and roles, while women do nothing.

Men want to do little to attract women then complain women aren’t interested in them.

Men thought paying for a date got you laid, and women didn’t want to do that, yet still want the money and prizes without giving anything in return.

So every one sucks, but this isn’t like racism. There is systemic racism you could point to in history, but the sexless thing is just social media. It always existed, ugly nerds not getting laid is nothing new, no matter how much incels glorify the past.

But a communist agenda isn’t why people who have always had dating problems continue to have them.

Communism won’t make women love men more than money. Communism isn’t going to make men #RespectWahmyn more than wanting to fuck them.

There are no systemic issues. I know 101 class assume everything is a Marxist oppression system, but it isn’t in reality.

801735 · 2020-10-30T18:32:10+00:00

People don't bring up higher costs of living, decaying small towns, overwork, the gig economy, the abuse of religion, untreatable mental illness, etc.

It gets mentioned and I think often implied.

The sub is trying to fix systemic issues with individualistic solution

Locus of control, huh?

Sultmaker_9000 · 2020-10-30T19:00:23+00:00

'Mental illness' should also be included in the first part, its also part of the symptoms. The same trends in the west are the same trends that happened since the 80's in Japan which was the blueprint. High government debt sucking the productive life out of the economy, men lose their vigor. Its actually going to be worse in the west because at least Japan didn't have the added cancer of feminism, identity politics and woke culture on top.

SaBahRub · 2020-10-30T21:28:03+00:00

The only significant, novel, recent development is the internet. Before that, it was the emancipation of women

Economic cycles have always existed. So has religion. Cities and other population centers have always waxed and waned. People have always been mentally ill, and were often shunned and killed for it. Poverty is always with us, as is civil unrest

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The3liGator · 2020-10-30T19:57:35+00:00

[deleted]

goatismycopilot · 2020-10-30T21:28:28+00:00

There are two groups of rich people who are super untrustworthy..... the asshole types who seriously do not give a fuck and lie and cheat and kind of enjoy hurting others and the savior types who want to rescue you.

TheBookOfSeil · 2020-10-31T00:46:20+00:00

I think most of what you brought up isn’t relevant to the sub and a fair degree of reaching might have to be done to claim otherwise.

hypothememe · 2020-10-31T01:00:10+00:00

Good point

But individuals make up a society so in a roundabout way it does come down to and back to the individual again. Tho that doesn’t negate your point.. it just goes full circle back to the fact that ‘yes its systematic, but we have to change the system by being better ourself’

Grand_Duty · 2020-10-31T03:36:22+00:00

If we're not talking about the destruction of the family unit, then we are as the RedPill says, (I hate that those guys are right) going to "enjoy the decline."

DLifts777 · 2020-10-31T13:02:19+00:00

Yeah most people agree that those things that you listed are on the rise and are indeed a problem. But too many people feel they have to defend their team. 'Team Women', 'Team Men'. Some men even joining 'Team Women' to appeal. Some going Team MGTOW/Incel and blaming women for everything that's wrong with the world.

That's why TRP is such a breathe of fresh air, as it stops blaming women for being how they are naturally designed to be, and gives men rational steps to take to enjoy better more fulfilling relationships, which are better for both the man and the woman. A good relationship, be it casual or serious, is good for both willing participants.

analt223 · 2020-10-31T19:53:37+00:00

All those problems would go away if we acknowledged that nobody is for ending gender roles, and blank slate feminism is fucking retarded

milquetoastmf · 2020-11-02T09:57:02+00:00

[removed]

Sir_manalot · 2020-11-02T13:43:14+00:00

People don't bring up higher costs of living, decaying small towns, overwork, the gig economy, the abuse of religion, untreatable mental illness, etc.

Because most of those are the results of things, not the causes.

Why is the economy going to shit? Because we value and empower dark triads over good people. Which results in selfish manipulators having the power. And a large part of this is who is rewarded in the smv.

And untreatable mental illness is the result of relationships being a mess. Why? Because children are growing up in unstable situations resulting in mental health issues in the first place.

diraclikesmath · 2020-10-30T19:08:39+00:00

Abuse of religion? Religion is the answer imo

Atlas__B__Shruggin · 2020-10-30T19:22:41+00:00

there is no system

statsfodder · 2020-10-30T22:43:34+00:00

Is this post a dog whistle for an anti capitalism discussion ?? Cause the dogs be barking.

Anyone claiming communism/socialism is awesome needs history and economy lessons.

LeJacquelope · 2020-10-31T06:59:27+00:00

We talk about economics all the time. Economic changes and the harm it has done to men have revealed the true nature of women and the soul-less, transactional nature of relationships with them.

Grand_Duty · 2020-10-31T20:46:43+00:00

Most women do come in three types

Younger

The liberal from divorced parents, or single moms who smokes (weed, cigarettes', etc), parties, drinks, anime, nom nom birth-control, cosplay, (piercings everywhere from eyes to ears, to mouth and nose, head shoulders knees and toes ) dyed hair, arts shows, muh singing in bands, theater drama kids, Aposematism, lots of cats, tattoos hates drumpfh, acab, muh abortion rights, feminisms, and blm. muh twitter obsession 45% of women (lower class to middle class)

The country girls muh Morgan Wallen, Dierks Bentley, Riley Green, Jake Owens, muh late night drives, jesus tattoos, muh bible quotes even though I'm not married to my high-school sweetheart, muh drinking and beer, muh horse riding, fishin, muddin, hutin, muh larping in camo, muh trucker hats and muh gaiters, snowboarding, motocross, muh baseball boy butts, horse-riding bull riding, skydiving, kayaking, camping with the boys, muh tee hee i still saved my v for my husband, even though my anus is fissured. 30% (middle class)

The sorority girls since daddy and mommy never payed enough attention to me that loves her martinis, muh nursing, business management, lawyer, accounting, and civ engineering, birth control, white claw, margarita, Jules, brunch tee hee, muh Netflxi, the Office, shopping, beach, muh tailgaiting even though I don't understand sports, Muh game of the thrones, omg my private Insta, Twitter, and vsco , Ugg's, oversized shirts with short shorts. Patagonia, vineyard, Gucci and gabona, sorority lean in poses, hold my hand meme, I deserve Hemsworth meme. muh I love rap and mumble rap, but only have two black friends (funniest thing ever) Dior, travel, concerts, tinder swipe fest and festival 25% (middle upper class to upper class)

Older

muh kids come first, little Aiden is my world, cat laides, and swinger/open/poly/ cucking/hot wife, anxiety and depression meds, a lot of netflix, muh child-support, even more cats, muh past doesn't matter (tell that to the bank, ya'll ain't got good credit) (lower to middle class)

muh where are all the good conservative god fearin men at, where are the gentlemen, take me on a date and pay for everything, muh Georgie is my world, buy me a new car, and a house, muh George Strait, Blake Shelton muh gameshows (Rip Regis)

Muh Friends, Muh Sex and the City, muh Hanson brothers, muh NYSNC/Backstreet Boys Justin Timberlake, muh Robe Lowe muh George Clooney, muh Brad Pitt and Leo D, if you're under six foot swipe left, I got a bachelors or a masters be on my level, muh R.E.S.P.E.C.T. and muh independent women, where are all the good men, muh PTA meetings, muh Karen, muh where are your parents, I'm tired of traveling and festivals, I want to settle down and divorce you, trophy wife life, muh romance novels with Fabio,

tosit2019 · 2020-10-30T21:51:59+00:00

Because actually none of that shit matters to the reality. You can choose to adapt or spend your life blaming someone else for your problems.

Title	[Discussion] The reason this sub constantly repeats the same talking point is because of an aversion to studying systemic problems
Author	The3liGator
Upvotes	209
Comments	343
Date	October 30, 2020 6:28 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/jl2all/discussion_the_reason_this_sub_constantly_repeats/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/discussion-the-reason-this-sub-constantly-repeats.734121 https://theredarchive.com/post/734121