The manosphere totally misinterprets female attraction.

OutOfOranges · 2021-01-09T17:02:44+00:00

OP your post is directed at blackpill ideas not red pill ones. Please edit the misleading "trp"

wtknight · 2021-01-08T20:19:34+00:00

First, 80/20 is really only about casual sex, which is the purest measure of “sexual attraction.” When discussing other things that women might be attracted to, like social standing and ability to provide, these only come up in terms of relationships and they are not what the manosphere is looking at when it comes to 80/20.

Second, many women have said many times here that they don’t find most men to be attractive. I’ve seen very few women here say that they find more than 20% of the men they come across on a day to day basis to be attractive.

Now, maybe the men that women do find attractive are not the same men. This could mean that a higher percentage of men might be attractive to women. Of course, this discounts that many women might be attracted to less than 20% of men, meaning that there is still a very small percentage of men that are actually considered attractive to the majority of women, which is basically the argument that the manosphere is trying to make.

Of course, the way around this for most average men is to try to appeal to a niche of women rather than the majority of them, or to just make friends with women and go for FWB situations once that guys female friends get to know him better. Still, this doesn’t change the argument that a small minority of men are universally found to be initially sexually attractive by the large minority of women, which is basically what 80/20 is trying to say and which is backed up but things such as the OKCupid study, although, yes, it’s based upon pictures and profiles rather than real life interaction, which might help those few men who look bad in pictures and who can’t write good profiles but who have good social skills.

Fadi110 · 2021-01-08T19:03:47+00:00

Attractive people are treated better than unattractive people, it's looks-based but charisma boosts their SMV

themostgianthorse · 2021-01-08T19:04:48+00:00

I think we all know that looks aren’t everything however, Social standing, charisma, humor, confidence, ability to provide (?), etc. may be challenging to convey on an app in which the majority are just scrolling through pictures.

Marketing_Baboon · 2021-01-08T19:24:19+00:00

The 80/20 rule has always been explicitly about physical sexual attraction. I don’t think we typically imply otherwise. We know quite well women will select for other more longterm traits depending on the context, that’s where the AF/BB dichotomy comes from. It just happens that the men of highest values are both, the Alpha Bucks.

Barely-moral · 2021-01-08T18:59:03+00:00

By assuming women’s attraction works the same as men’s you end up coming to conclusions like the 20/80 rule. Because men are primarily attracted to looks they assume women are aswell.

No need to assume that.

*”When men say that women are only attracted to the top 20%, they mean “attracted” in the way men are attracted to women - physical attraction.

The only kind of attraction that matters and the only kind of attraction that has any value.

But they don’t factor into the equation the fact that women’s attraction takes more into account. Or, if they do, they consider it an insult, the way a man dating an ugly woman for other reasons would be an insult and settling

No need to take it as an insult. I just treat that kind of attraction as an unwanted byproduct of female psychology. Sure it exists and I have no problem with it. Its just not valuable.

Men literally cannot fathom that our attraction isn’t primarily looks-based*”

I can imagine it. I can understand it. I can't empathize with it and I cannot care about it. Attraction that it is not looks based is not valuable.

Men from trp just don’t seem to understand female attraction at all, we care far more about charisma, social standing & ability to provide than we do looks.

I understand it and I use it to my advantage. Specially the "social standing and ability to provide" part. But even then. That kind of attraction has no value to me. If a woman is attracted to me because of those it is the same as she not being attracted to me at all.

When we say looks aren’t everything we mean it, what we don’t mean is looks are totally irrelevant. Just that they are not the driving factor like they are for men.

Good. I don't think it matters. A woman being attracted to me because of social standing and ability to provide is something that does not give me any significant benefit. When I say I want my partner to be attracted to me I am speaking about looks and maybe charisma (short term interactions) anything else does not count, it is not valued by me and for that reason is irrelevant.

keeperoflosttime · 2021-01-08T20:14:00+00:00

That's because those other factors are insulting. It gives the impression that you want us around for the utility we can offer you, rather than for mutual sexual pleasure. The fact that this relationship might be bereft of physical attraction makes it so sex is sort of a duty or favor the woman is performing, an utterly belittling notion.

Also I dispute that female attraction is fundamentally different from male attraction. Men care about personality and status too, we just don't pretend it can substitute for actual physical sexual desire.

OXOzymandias · 2021-01-08T19:39:57+00:00

The story women tell themselves about men they're attracted to is always more interesting than reality. Most of the time guys talk themself out of pussy....why?

Because chicks have an idea of who you are, an idea who fit with her fantasy of you based on stuff she likes in my in general. So in my opinion it is way more cut and dry than what women think in general...he was hot, and you thought he was also brave and bal bla bla

cliniconthemic · 2021-01-08T23:45:27+00:00

What i understand from this post is: “Ultimately, women will give “unattractive” bottom 80% of males a chance because at one point they will “need” a simpler, cozy life with minimal effort, thanks to their partner’s “social status” and of course, “money”. Thats basically what “betabuxxing” is.

So why should an unattractive man be a “provider” after a woman’s “party years”? Deep down he already knows he is not “truly” loved. I do understand the aim of women but, what’s mens part of the deal? What’s the point for them to give this type of relationship a go?

PickleLine · 2021-01-08T19:26:33+00:00

"Just personality and status bro"

It's very hard to make up for being in average or below average in looks. Changing personality and gaining confidence and status are very difficult. Everyone is trying to do it but only a small amount of the population do.

Most average looking women don't have confidence/personality/status and would be incels if they were men. But they aren't because they have female privilege.

rivetcitymayor · 2021-01-09T00:17:45+00:00

So if I don’t have the looks, I must be used for status and money ?! Well that’s good news

throwaway93286946 · 2021-01-08T18:55:13+00:00

Just say that if you aren't top 20% you're getting settled for already.

QuenchlessGato · 2021-01-08T20:43:24+00:00

Attraction is primarily looks-based.

It's just that after meeting a certain threshold of physical attractiveness other aspects like charisma, status, etc. start to matter and when you are at this level then these personality traits may have larger impact than extra physical attractiveness points beyond this threshold (e.g. guy with 8/10 looks and 10/10 personality will be better than a guy with 9/10 looks but with 2/10 personality.

I would say that men and women aren't different at this mechanism, it's just the details differ - men impose much lower physical attractiveness threshold on women than vice versa. And obviously women and men value different non-looks traits in the other sex.

throwaway07266370 · 2021-01-09T01:16:56+00:00

That's not female attraction, that's female opportunism. Totally different things. Any woman can claim to be "attracted" by charisma, personality, status, money but the moment she would see a machoer man (taller, more in shape, better genetics) she would think of him as more of a man compared to her partner. It has always been the case, the only difference is that in the past women were socially shamed if they indulged practically into these thoughts (cheating) while now they wouldn't hesitate a moment. Listen to their actions, not their words. This post isn't an attempt to aid men understanding women, it's an attempt of women aiding women since there is less simping around these days and increasingly fewer men sharing their wealth thus left alone. The so called misunderstood female attraction has a habit of magically disappearing if you keep your wallet to yourself.

GullibleAirport732 · 2021-01-09T03:57:00+00:00

Lol, the entitlement of Western women. You want to be strong and independent, yet you need a man to provide for you? How on Earth does that even work. What's the guarantee you won't run off when you find a more attractive guy? The manosphere is on spot about nature of Western women. At least here in Pakistan and other Muslim countries, women are virgins at marriage and committed to motherhood. So they men also commit to the relation. Western women just don't seem to be relationship material.

passepar2t · 2021-01-09T06:24:57+00:00

You're the same person who posted that looks are paramount and ugly people should stay in their lane.

ZodiacBrave98 · 2021-01-08T20:38:05+00:00

This conversation is 15 years late. Your talking points are straight out of 2000's PUA seminars. Go watch Magnolia for the nostalgia factor.

Read Rational Males Schedules of Mating posts. Append PPD's Female Social Matrix for insight on the 'status' part of the looks/money/status triforce.

TRP fixes the problems with PUA.

Edit:

Women’s desire is very negotiable, we can be swayed with other factors.

It's important to be clear : negotiable means charm. The simp thinks he can trade favors. When TRP says attraction is not negotiable the intended reading is deal making. For your meaning I could say 'women's attraction can be manipulated but not negotiated'.

801735 · 2021-01-08T18:54:31+00:00

U-huuuuuuuh.

Also "High Value Man" is what every one seems to be either in urgent need of or with. How come chicks aren't all with "Low Value Men"?

When we say looks aren’t everything we mean it

Oh, we know you do. Looks not only aren't everything, (good, of course) looks aren't ENOUGH.

Here, have a cup of reality. Drink it before it gets cold. Or bitter.

pre-DrChad · 2021-01-08T20:56:07+00:00

While attraction is not solely based on looks, can we agree that it is primarily based on looks, and often looks can create a halo effect which makes the other parts of you seem better?

I've noticed that when a girl is attracted to me all of a sudden I'm funnier than Bill Burr, the chick can't stop giggling.

So really telling a guy to personalitymaxx or social standingmaxx is useless.

The best bang for your buck is to looksmaxx (and careermaxx) and let the effects of that ooze into other parts in your life.

Aware_Natural · 2021-01-08T23:15:49+00:00

The Manosphere makes no such assumptions. From the information I’ve gathered the manosphere says that women are attracted to behavior whereas men are attracted to looks.

Pontifex_Lucious-II · 2021-01-09T01:00:29+00:00

This is exactly the opposite of what TRP says

LeJacquelope · 2021-01-09T04:11:27+00:00

If looks aren't everything why is there a solid and reliable list of known super good looking men that get women's panties wet on sight with no knowledge of their personality?

screamingIn2_theVoid · 2021-01-08T19:06:23+00:00

By assuming women’s attraction works the same as men’s

This isn't even slightly true. At all. Nada. Zilch. Zip.

Men from trp just don’t seem to understand female attraction at all

Yeah, it's so easy to spin plates by not understanding female attraction LOL

Your entire premise is wrong, but you know....there are so many tradcons and incels in TRP, you might be *currently* right but again, the idea that a dude could spin plates without understanding female attraction is laughable.

You're just trying to put us in the "beta" box.

dashbravo · 2021-01-08T19:54:12+00:00

Lol so in other words, "women are quadruple the amount of shallow that men are".

Idk who this was news to or who was misinterpreting any of this. I thought we all knew that when women date all they look for is: How are you better; How can you elevate me; What can you do for me; What do you look like.

They put that emotional intelligence that they love to complain about the lack thereof on the back burner every time in order to be hypergamous

spacechicken1990 · 2021-01-08T20:29:43+00:00

[deleted]

Urbantexasguy · 2021-01-08T22:03:18+00:00

As a man, I'd feel better if by "other factors", you meant physical factors that can't be detected or evaluated via a photo in OLD, such as scent, posture, movement, voice, etc.

Charisma and social standing, I can maybe see. However, with the "provider" thing, you've probably triggered the "Golddigger Alarm System" of a lot of men here. That probably accounts for a lot of the downvotes and triggered responses you're getting.

Davidfosford · 2021-01-08T22:57:35+00:00

so what youre actually saying is,

if youre ugly make sure you have the personality of an idealized perfect male celebrity with perfect charm and charisma like captain america"

Counter_Proposition · 2021-01-08T23:45:40+00:00

Men from trp just don’t seem to understand female attraction at all, we care far more about charisma, social standing & ability to provide more than we do looks. Women’s desire is very negotiable, we can be swayed with other factors.

The is patently false. Read the book "The Rational Male" by Rollo Tomassi, which is a staple of Red Pill literature. It frequently goes into how women are seen as sex objects, and men are seen as success objects (aka "status objects"). Note that this is a general observation of society as a whole, not a philosophy of TRP community.

trail22 · 2021-01-09T20:24:22+00:00

Meanwhile my 5’3 Asian ass with a bunch of friends keeps getting ignored despite having had a good job and a large social circle.

Hey I’m literally good friends with your friends, would it kill you to make small talk with me. Oh you want to try to fix me up with a girl , oh but she ends up ignoring me and you email me an apology for her rude ass.

But yeah , I’m sure a lot comes into play which the girl can tell without even talking to me. What do the BLM people say. You are arguing with my lived in experience as a short Asian male.

mgtowalternate · 2021-01-08T20:27:57+00:00

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no_value_male · 2021-01-08T19:07:19+00:00

Since women can make their own money (and nowadays even earn more than their male peers), female attraction changed to being looks-based and status-based.

ImbeddedElite · 2021-01-08T20:52:56+00:00

I think someone in the comments said it best. In short, when you get to the very heart of the matter, men don’t want women to be attracted to us for things other than physicality. We want to be physically attractive and we want women to be attracted to us, maybe not solely, but mostly for that.

Since being attractive enough for that to be the case only applies to maybe 20% of men, some of the rest of us get upset. And since a lot of people in general, not just men, don’t like to feel negative consequences for things they have no control over (as in genetics, because working out and dressing nice can only take you so far) a lot of them end up lashing out at women for having these feelings in the same way a lot of women who don’t have big boobs or asses resent men who value them.

Imo it’s all about insecurity and the genetic lottery.

hypothememe · 2021-01-08T21:24:08+00:00

I think theres a study showing how the more successful women are, and more equal to men in society, the more they prioritize looks.. Hence the western countries going crazy as they are now in many ways when it comes to sex.

2021-01-08T22:17:58+00:00

an average attractiveness level healthy weighted man with great personality/charisma/status will slay.

The concept that fat and/or ugly men can make up for lacking baseline attractiveness with any of that to obtain a physically attractive woman is just false.

Hot people congregate. Average people congregate but there is more wiggle room, they can land a hottie if they're awesome in other ways. Ugly people congregate.

ChrysippusOfSoli · 2021-01-08T22:33:03+00:00

Wanting a man for his social standing and ability to provide is wanting to use him as a tool to give yourself a leg up in the world.

catfishmasc · 2021-01-08T22:43:48+00:00

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NinjaOfTheSouth · 2021-01-08T19:08:56+00:00

Well female “physical “ attraction , is more shallow, they desire and feel attracted to men who are taller, have attracted faces and not fat. There’s no misinterpreting about that. Unless your talking about status and money?

2021-01-08T23:04:01+00:00

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stats135 · 2021-01-08T19:15:09+00:00

physical attraction

The most important word of the two is physical, not attraction. I want women to PHYSICALLY have sex with me, not be attracted to the idea of having sex with me. Attraction without the physical aspect is completely and utterly worthless.

I feel like that is a "if a tree falls in the forest" type question here. It doesn't matter if there is some unperceived reality of a woman being attracted to me if she doesn't express it in a way that I stimulates physical sensations. There is no "misinterpretation" of attraction within the manosphere so much as they care only about the interpretation that matters.

R3s0und3r · 2021-01-08T21:08:51+00:00

I actually agree, but he'll even I'll say this both sexes will never truly understand what attracts the other. This is going to be a difficult debate here today.

Jakes1967 · 2021-01-08T22:13:05+00:00

*”When men say that women are only attracted to the top 20%, they mean “attracted” in the way men are attracted to women - physical attraction.

Nope, ALL men understand female attraction. Looks, money, power, fame and then the rest...

YveisGrey · 2021-01-08T23:10:06+00:00

While I agree physical attraction isn’t the end all be all I still think the 80/20 rule could apply I mean most women are probably attracted to the top 20% of earners and while the average height of men is 5’9 most women want a man who is 6ft tall, no matter what the factor is women want the best

BadWrath · 2021-01-09T00:27:04+00:00

Not at all. Maybe some men think that way, but most men know women want money. I’m very attractive, 25, tall too, but only make $80k and dating is virtually impossible for me so I can only imagine how a lot of other guys are feeling.

Men want sex, women want money. Men care about money insofar as it gets them sex, women care about sex insofar as it gets them money. The relationship between men and women revolves around prostitution. I’d say this is the case for most people with an IQ below 100. The man pays to get screwed and the woman screws to get paid. Therefore, the 20/80 rule is still consistent because most women want the too 20% of earnersAND ACCEPT NOTHING LEAS. Most men want the top 20% of women, but moat accept less and are perfectly happy with that. For me, I wouldn’t want a supermodel.

2021-01-09T01:03:49+00:00

What area of the manosphere are you talking about. The biggest revelation I got from the manospehre was exactly what you are saying the manosphere does not understand.

I do not in anyway claim to fully understand it. But I can accept it at an abstract level.

When I apply this abstract theory it provides results that back it up. As in, out in the field in Real Life.

But yeah, the one thing the manosphere taught me was that women are attracted to not just looks and I shouldn't project my own attraction on to them.

jdobrila · 2021-01-09T05:40:31+00:00

Men from trp just don’t seem to understand female attraction at all, we care far more about charisma, social standing & ability to provide more than we do looks.

Are you confusing TRP with incels? "Fake it till you make it" is 90% of TRP. What do you think "faking it" means, faking your muscles? Even when TRP tells men to lift, half of the reason to lift is to make you feel(and therefore act) more masculine.

jdobrila · 2021-01-09T05:59:06+00:00

What the hell are you talking about? 90% of TRP teachings are about you how to change your "charisma and social standing". Even when TRP tells men to lift, half the reason to lift is to boost your self-discipline and confidence, which are not physical traits.

Edit: the amount of downvotes, triggered comments & nasty pms makes me think I’ve hit a nerve. Why can’t we ever just have a civil discussion without it turning into a shit show?

Try making a post that is not shit, and maybe it will not turn into a shit show.

Sekina7 · 2021-01-10T10:24:06+00:00

Most men on here will moan all day about wanting to be “desired” just for looks but will then use the women who do want them just for looks for sex but refuse do date those SAME WOMEN because they are not the best looking women they can get and/or they deem them promiscuous whores for doing the VERY THING THEY CLAIM THEY WANTED.

AND they will rag on women that do go solely for looks if their unions with those men they solely desired physically go wrong and tell them “they should have chosen better”. THEN they also readily admit that they think so called “chads” do not owe the average women they sleep with commitment because they have choice . They admit they would behave just the same if they were attractive enough. But no one EVER speaks on the fact that men who are good looking , charming know how to romance and court women , make them feel desired . And men with money who pursue top tier women (who are capable of looking after themselves financially ) ALWAYS lead with their money (speaking from experience) !!! They are FULL OF IT.

ApprehensiveWheel32 · 2021-01-11T20:15:41+00:00

manosphere

You cringe, because the idea of a sphere of influence not subject to women’s gaslighting is intolerable to you and must be shunned. Western society is women’s sphere, within that is a small kernel where they have no power known as the ‘manosphere’.

Men literally cannot fathom that our attraction isn’t primarily looks-based*”

Oh we can fathom it. We just know it is primarily looks based.

Mate selection is negotiable, attraction isn’t.

We understand women’s attraction just fine, it’s you that doesn’t. Or at least the terminology.

Edit: the amount of downvotes, triggered comments & nasty pms makes me think I’ve hit a nerve. Why can’t we ever just have a civil discussion without it turning into a shit show?

Or maybe you’re just wrong.

Kaisha001 · 2021-01-08T19:36:17+00:00

The data we have does not support you assertion.

djmedicalman · 2021-01-08T21:22:25+00:00

How do you downvote a post in this sub?

Mimoxs · 2021-01-08T19:12:37+00:00

yes I cringed while typing that, hope you do too while reading it

Mission accomplished don't worry

But no, I think guys take into account attraction in things like actions, status, etc. They realize it's more than looks.

I think the bigger problem is men thinking that a woman wanting to fuck a guy must mean she's attracted to him. That seems to be a much bigger misconception. Men don't understand that women can desire sex with someone without being attracted to them at all, whereas that's not really true for men.

spacechicken1990 · 2021-01-08T21:06:12+00:00

[deleted]

sleepyspacefox · 2021-01-08T23:38:54+00:00

Same reason men started sending photos of their genitals to women. They assumed that since they’re aroused by pictures of body parts, we would be too. Couldn’t have been further off.

You do seem to have touched a nerve. I’ve tried starting similar, open discussions and they’re almost always met with aggressive indignation and defensiveness.

It’s unfortunate most of the guys in this sub and other dating subs can’t be more open-minded and level-headed.

Do they actually want to understand women or just preach to each other about how they’re convinced women are (rhetorical)?

TwoFirmFeet · 2021-01-08T19:17:53+00:00

Women cant help themselves against chad. They will enter abusive relationships or fight over chad that are already in relationships because they want a taste of him.

Sure, there are other attributes that men can have to influence a women to allow him in, but nothing trumps beautiful innate looks. Women will either not bother (because why should she/hypergamy) or will cheat.

TRP recognizes this and focus on the superficial features that women look in men IE looks "the way men are attracted to women." The difference is men admit this and also they date across and below in terms of hierarchy whereas women date across and above.

But you are ultimately right - women do value other features besides looks in men... just not as much as they value "chad characteristics."

daproest1 · 2021-01-08T21:34:52+00:00

I try to tell the black pill guys this all the time. Looks don’t matter as much to women. It only gets your foot in the door. Women have a whole laundry list of things they look for. A lot of which, they don’t even know they’re looking for. But they all tie in to one thing. The way you make them feel.

Dominemm · 2021-01-08T22:55:01+00:00

OP explains how female attraction works. As usual men on this sub continue ignore what they don’t understand .

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battirider · 2021-01-08T22:40:29+00:00

Bollocks

BatemaninAccounting · 2021-01-08T22:53:18+00:00

The biggest thing about all redpill statistics is the fact that 80-90% of people that want to be in a relationship, are currently in or just out of a long relationships. Most of us have long relationships with multiple people in our lifetimes. Very few people are perpetually losers of love.

What they're really complaining about is the fact that they can't get a perfect mate, which shows how shallow they really are.

WilliamWyattD · 2021-01-08T23:35:18+00:00

You have it a bit wrong. The 80/20 theory is based on raw sexual desire. And TRP acknowledges that female desire is less based on pure physical appearance than male attraction is. That is the whole point of game, which TRP gets from its PUA origins.

It's Incels and Blackpill that have warped TRP theory with their belief that 'looks are everything'. Given female emancipation, it was natural that the portion of female desire that was looks based would rise somewhat, as cultural conditions had suppressed it below its natural level. Then current cultural conditions have amplified that portion of female desire that is based purely on male appearance, taking it above its normal level. But even at its artificially inflated level, the portion of female desire that is based entirely on male appearance is far from 100%. In many ways, it still makes up a smaller part of the female attraction equation than the importance of female appearance to the male attraction equation. The two equations are, of course, hard to compare as women are pickier overall and have more deal breaker cutoff than men. Apples to oranges.

So TRP theory is far more accurate than this insane Blackpill theory. That said, I've always felt this dogmatic adherence to the 80/20 Pareto Principle was overdone by TRP. It is true that women are desirous of the best, factoring in physical and non-physical attraction triggers properly, but I don't think hypergamy goes so far as 80/20 in most cultures.

PMmeareasontolive · 2021-01-08T23:50:50+00:00

Looks are the initial filter on OLD, and there's no getting past that. Women don't read profiles either. Or they might, but only after that first threshold is well cleared.

I barely remember what it was like in real life before the plague, but I think it was slightly better.

duffmanhb · 2021-01-09T00:11:35+00:00

Nice take but we have hard data from OLD sites that disagree.

Stevefr0mYellowstone · 2021-01-09T04:09:00+00:00

So I do agree with you to a certain extent, people love to throw out the Dating App stats about how women only consider the top 10% above average looks-wise, or whatever that number is. They neglect to mention the fact that this data is usually coming from hook up apps, where it is almost all about sex, hence physical attraction is going to be the main factor, and the fact that no man is really going to be able to get his personality through in an effective way through just a few pictures and a brief bio (which many skip completing). When you boil things down to such simplicity, yes, women are going to focus almost entirely on looks. A man doing things in person rather than relying on a hookup dating app is going to be more successful than those who get nothing on dating apps while the elite looking men draw in all the women.

But this is a "CMV" so I do have to express some disagreement in my comment. You say that red pilled men don't understand the factors of charisma, social standing and provider ability with attraction. I disagree. I think it would be better to say that the black pillers/incels/doom pillers say those kind of things and don't understand it. The types that say "If you're under 6 feet you're doomed" or "I don't have the right jawline, so I never had a shot in the first place.". A red piller who has not gone down the black piller path certainly understands how those things factor in. After all, that well known SMV chart from Rollo Tomassi and the notion that men's SMV peaks in their mid to late 30s wouldn't exist if it was solely based on looks. It is taking into consideration the fact that women desire high social standing, high providership ability, etc... and that men in their early 20s aren't going to have those things, its going to take time for a man to build himself up there.

The other thing I would say is that yes, those other type of things can make a man attractive to a woman. But will they make them aroused? If anything for most red pillers, that's the big thing. They are looking for casual sex, or a LTR where they are getting a lot of sex. They are not looking for a relationship where they get starfish sex once a month. And relationships where a woman is not physically attracted to the man, but more with him because of his social status and providership ability are more apt to lead to those type of things. So red pillers are directed to seek out a woman who has genuine burning desire for the man and are aroused by him so they can get that.

Alfredaux · 2021-01-09T06:53:11+00:00

Nah. TRP totally factor in aspects than a man’s looks. While important, they also stress resources and personality.

abaxeron · 2021-01-09T14:51:12+00:00

we care far more about charisma, social standing & ability to provide more than we do looks

How do you know?

Seriously, HOW?!

It's been confirmed multiple times that people lie. That people lie to themselves. That people seek excuses for themselves. That people are less likely to admit to truths that make them seem shallow. That people blame others for their mistakes but totally congratulate themselves on their pure luck.

How are women different?!!

"Well, I know myself..." - Have you dated yourself? Maybe people who have dated you have somewhat better understanding of you as a romantic partner? Consider it.

spacechicken1990 · 2021-01-09T17:40:19+00:00

we care far more about charisma, social standing

So I'm basically fucked if I don't have these specific attributes?

Snoo_16536 · 2021-01-09T18:23:46+00:00

Ok u/spacechicken1990, this is all blackpill talk. TRP is all about building yourself up to become your best self

washington_breadstix · 2021-01-11T14:50:46+00:00

But they don’t factor into the equation the fact that women’s attraction takes more into account. Or, if they do, they consider it an insult, the way a man dating an ugly woman for other reasons would be an insult and settling.

Exactly. It is settling. So where's the misunderstanding?

Whether someone's attraction to another is an insult or not is surely in the eye of the recipient, right? So you can't just tell someone "This is how my attraction to you works and by the way it's not an insult". We want women to be physically attracted to us. Thus, when a woman says "I'm not (very) physically attracted to you but I want to be with you for other reasons", it's totally the man's prerogative to take that as an insult or as somehow less than the ideal.

Put the shoe on the other foot and you'll see what I mean. Imagine a guy telling you "I just want to use you for sex and have no interest in a deeper relationship". That statement alone sounds gross, but then imagine him saying you didn't have the right to be insulted by it. That would just downright piss you off.

Also, I get that female attraction isn't fully looks based, but you can't claim that it isn't primarily looks based when physical attraction wins in the end.

When deciding between two men, their personalities only matter if said men are within a similar range of attractiveness – more broadly speaking, if they're both on the same side of the 80/20 line. But the guy below the line with a "great personality" can't compete with the guy who's above the line. As physical attractiveness increases, personality matters less, and the 80/20 line is a rough approximation of where the main divide is.

It would be one thing if the rules applied to all men equally and women took personality into account when comparing two men in any situation, regardless of their disparity in physical attractiveness. If that were happening, then the guys above the 80/20 line in looks would be struggling just as much to find partners, or maybe they would be on par with guys above the 80/20 "charisma" line. But that's pretty clearly not reality. Not even close. And any attempts to describe reality as such are bound to engage in the Halo Effect fallacy. A woman will say "I dated him because of his personality" when a more accurate description would be that she saw his personality through rose-tinted glasses because of his looks. It's something that virtually all humans do. We automatically attribute more positive personality traits to those we perceive as better looking.

VoiceOfTheMillenium · 2021-02-01T10:31:46+00:00

Or, if they do, they consider it an insult, the way a man dating an ugly woman for other reasons would be an insult and settling

The "but you are a good provider" is considered insult, because it fucking is. I am sure you would get you panties in a twist if your SO said that "Hey, you are ugly as fuck and my dick would literally fall off rather than get up on you, but hey, at least you cook great". Because, once again, it IS insulting. Manosphere or not.

Men from the manosphere just don’t seem to understand female attraction at all, we care far more about charisma, social standing & ability to provide more than we do looks. Women’s desire is very negotiable, we can be swayed with other factors.

All those factors are not interested. I have friends to drool over my charisma and humor. I have community that will give a shit and respond about social standing, I have family that will make use of my ability to provide. The only thing we don't get from those entities is romance and sex. That's it. And that's the reason we put high tolerance on any bullshit you will throw at us, even the one that, if it was literally anyone or anything else, it would warrant the physical response. I know, it's hard to fucking grasp as a concept, but if we don't look for trophy wife, we actually would like to be desired time from time. Desired for who we are. Not for that mask we put on social gatherings. Not for that fake-ass smile we put on because when man feels depressed or anxious, frankly, nobody fucking gives a shit, because you need to "man up". And CERTAINLY not for the bank account that we fucking have, which is one good enough crisis away from crashing and burning.

We get all this hemorrhoids in the outside life and interactions. We don't want to date a woman to have this kind of shit in OUR OWN home as well. Thanks, but we don't take kindly on filling the male suicide statistics because "womyn like us for us being their ATM".

Another fucking irony here: women always complain how men don't give a shit about their career and charisma and humor and everything besides their body, while men are literally sick of being viewed as anything but fucking humans - cheap joke material, ATM, the status symbol, glorified service tool etc and would like to actually be desired as fucking men.

In short, you don't fuck manners or humour or ability to provide.

SaBahRub · 2021-01-08T19:30:25+00:00

Each gender wants the other to be like them, all reality and common sense to the contrary, and settles somewhere in the mushy middle

If you don’t want to compromise, you better put in more effort

marylerw · 2021-01-08T22:41:55+00:00

Thank you for sharing my thoughts perfectly, take my upvote.

Title	The manosphere totally misinterprets female attraction.
Author	spacechicken1990
Upvotes	148
Comments	487
Date	January 8, 2021 6:49 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/kt8vxd/the_manosphere_totally_misinterprets_female/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/the-manosphere-totally-misinterprets-female.735294 https://theredarchive.com/post/735294