If men want more opportunities for sex, why don’t they put the same amount of effort into grooming, self care and “glowing up” as most women do?

MisterShogunate · 2021-02-19T11:01:16+00:00

Men used to.

There is a phenomena of learned helplessness that is propagated by social media. The whole “I’m lonely and depressed” joke has made it acceptable and in-fashion to be pathetic.

Additionally cringe culture has made it so that the least amount of social discomfort is “CRINGE.” Well okay just home and feel bad for yourself, that’s your only option.

Colin_Copernick · 2021-02-19T02:43:53+00:00

while growing up we are literally taught by society how to be attractive to men, how to look sexy

And men were taught that personality attracts women, not looks. Even told by women who improve their own looks that it’s not about looks

CaptainFunkyMan · 2021-02-19T02:19:07+00:00

Most of the attributes women look for in men can’t be changed.

For example, I take a lot of pride in my appearance: - get expensive haircuts every couple of weeks - search far and wide for flattering cuts of clothes in modern styles that I then have tailored to fit me perfectly - eat calorie controlled meals with the ideal macros for my body type - workout a minimum of five days a week — weights and cardio - maintain a solid skincare regime and perfect personal hygiene

I do all of that, but because I’m 5’5” and relatively average looking facially, I’m invisible to the women I’m attracted to.

I probably started my routine initially to attract women, but now it’s just who I am.

I actually have the same problem as you now, where the women who are attracted to me don’t put in a fraction of the effort I do yet still feel entitled to my company.

I know I didn’t draw the golden ticket in the great DNA lottery of life, but that doesn’t mean I want to spend my days with some lazy chubby chick with stringy un-brushed hair.

Daffan · 2021-02-19T11:47:25+00:00

Because immutable traits are what is holding them back.

Imagine telling a guy to style his hair when it is naturally thin or receding. Nice.

PickleLine · 2021-02-19T02:05:53+00:00

It doesn't help them as much. Men are limited by genetics (height, race, face, hair) much more than women.

Attractiveness for men is exponential. There's a plateau. Until men reach the "attractive" threshold, most effort is wasted and don't give many benefits. You see this in tall men and obesity. Read threads on "did you get more women once you lost weight" and almost always it's only tall men who claimed large benefits.

For most men, it's close to impossible to even reach the "attractive" threshold, so they're better off spending efforts elsewhere.

Illustrious_Wish_383 · 2021-02-19T02:19:19+00:00

For some of us it's basically polishing a turd, or getting advice that just ends up looking like generic Basic Suburban White Bro #520831

ThrowawayCOVID999 · 2021-02-19T01:38:12+00:00

I’m trying but it’s not working and I started at least 10 years later than most women do.

iamthemovie1992 · 2021-02-19T03:07:51+00:00

I mean, I already do that and have been doing for like over a decade. This didn’t get me the hookups I wanted, I will say it most likely went into my RMV. Still, there’s no style, haircuts, or grooming habits that will fix being 5’6 with average facial features.

xFallacyx69 · 2021-02-19T01:15:34+00:00

Women who do none of the above still have dudes tryna fuck them... that’s the difference

ApprehensiveWheel32 · 2021-02-19T01:15:56+00:00

They put in more effort, at the gym.

Bandit174 · 2021-02-19T00:57:55+00:00

If it was that easy most men would already have done so and become successful for it. Usually the differences between the guy who can easily sleep with women and the one who can't are written in bone i.e jawline, cheekbone, browbone, collarbone width, height, hand/wrist size, and while not technically bone, penis size.

Those are the traits that separate a high value man from the rest.

Robotemist · 2021-02-19T02:03:32+00:00

This is probably true to an extent. Some men could help themselves with some styling and exercise. But the things that women covet in men can't be enhanced. Nothing will make a 5'7 man 6'2. Nothing will give a man with a thin jaw a square one. Men can't cover pointy ears with hair. And contouring with makeup isn't acceptable in society yet.

Muscletov · 2021-02-19T04:47:59+00:00

This take is posted on at least a weekly basis here, seriously. Doesn't make it less stupid.

Men do not have access to remotely as many effective self-improvement measures as women do. The prime example being make up, of course. Women can literally paint on a vastly more attractive face every day while men have to deal with what nature gave them, which is considered subpar, more often than not. And before you say it: make up for men is not socially acceptable, except for the most subtle (read: useless) kind.

Not to mention the other genetic markers of attractiveness we can do nothing about sans expensive and extensive surgery, maybe: height, lack of balding, strong jawline, deep voice, big dick etc.

Also, women who put in zero effort into their looks exist as well, e.g. trashy, overweight women covered in ugly tattos and sporting sweat pants every day. Those still have more "sex oppurtunities" than most men.

reluctantly_red · 2021-02-19T00:21:11+00:00

Your social circle may be an anomaly. Most women put minimal effort into looking good most of the week and then layer on way to much makeup when they go out on the weekend.

Workaholiconew · 2021-02-19T00:17:39+00:00

For the same reason an ugly guy can get women with money, status, power and masculinity.

Men's value is spread out around multiple areas, while women's is restricted into looks. If a man is let behind in one of these multiple areas. He is toast. And chances are, he never gonna recover.

Also, responsibility, hopes and dreams, and things like that. Life is not all about acquiring sex. Sex is nor happiness. It is just a requirement to happiness to occur.

MasterTeacher123 · 2021-02-19T00:13:37+00:00

When I go outside I see a comparable number of fat obese women compared to fat obese men. I don’t care how much eye shadow or lipstick you put on, it your 5”2 and 200 pounds, you don’t give a shit about your “appearance” lol.

So no, I completely reject this theory that all or even a majority of women put a lot of effort in their “appearance”.

For the record, I do believe men can improve their status by doing things like going to the gym for a fit body, dressing better etc but I’m not gonna act like women are great in this regard on average.

XGHOW · 2021-02-19T00:17:59+00:00

Because the keys to true sexual attraction are different for men and women.

Jaw surgery is a pretty intense form of ‘glowing up’

matomasa · 2021-02-19T03:06:09+00:00

An argument could be made that taking more drastic measures such as cosmetic surgery or even working very hard at the gym means actively coming to terms with the fact that your current level of attractiveness is insufficient for your sexual goals and that you need to work on it. As society often validates men on the basis of how sexually successful they are, this realization could be a difficult step for many men.

For the same reasons, visibly working very hard on self-improvement (looks in particular) can project insecurity and even desperation in some cases. Hence if men do it, they sometimes tend to be relatively discreet about it.

S0mnariumx · 2021-02-19T03:42:06+00:00

This sort of thing confuses me. Like I shave, wash my face, shower regularly and take good care of my teeth. I haven't gotten a real haircut in awhile mostly due to covid so I wear hats pretty often. My clothing is less than perfect but it does fit with the types of women I like (stoners, hippies, goths etc.)

Things like make-up and a lot of hairstyles are off the table. So like I wouldn't say I'm putting in low effort. I just don't get what constitutes good grooming. Are there dudes running around with greasy hair, neckbeards and bad skin everywhere now? That's what comes to mind anyway

_Neon_Shadow_ · 2021-02-19T12:18:55+00:00

I think most guys don't know where to start to improve their looks. Excessive grooming has always been women's thing. But now that the internet has revealed how shallow women are, men realize they need to put more effort into their looks if they want to get laid.

But on another level, it has to do with how much men value women. Some men don't think vagina justifies jumping through so many hoops. So they couldn't care less.

decoy88 · 2021-02-19T12:48:20+00:00

It wasn’t encouraged from a young age like it was for women.

TheShitEater420 · 2021-02-19T13:03:12+00:00

A lot of dudes don't really appreciate how much just working out can do for your self-confidence and body image. I only really started last year and it has helped me loads.

Then again the reasons women reject men vary massivley and being too 'put together' for a guy can sometimes be a bad thing. At least from what ive heard.

DKtopia · 2021-02-20T06:35:20+00:00

Funny that women think they put a lot of effort by grooming, watch some makeup tutorials and do some shopping. Men have to suffer at the gym everyday, be tall, handsome, be rich, have super cool hobbies and 15 years of experience to attract girls! All this just to get 1/20th of the options an average woman has

Pipocore · 2021-02-20T09:44:02+00:00

Things that make a man physically attractive are like 70-80% genetic (height, hair, facial bone structure, frame, ability to grow a beard). You can't change that.

Psylillith · 2021-02-20T10:56:04+00:00

I feel like the same guys in this thread saying they can’t get laid because of their height or genetics are the same average looking dudes calling average women gross. Yeah okay guys you can’t have sex with Megan Foxx or Mia Khalifa or any women who looks anything close to that level of attractiveness, but you do realize that goes both ways right? Average looking women don’t have sex with really hot dudes either. That’s just life, lower your standards, get a better attitude and go get laid.

revente · 2021-02-19T11:24:22+00:00

I fully agree! As a dude I've followed the same exact advice!

And WOW!

Getting dick has never been easier!

Lateralanouncer · 2021-02-19T01:53:08+00:00

Your wrong. Men already spend more money and time on being attractive to woman. You are looking at it from the perspective that the sexes are the same. Woman want ken while men want Barbie. So when you add the money spent on protein and time in gym, men spend more. This was studied and on the news in my country.

daproest1 · 2021-02-19T01:15:56+00:00

It’s funny because I keep seeing all this sex stuff. The main issue isn’t sex. It’s about relationships working out long term. Ideally for life. Sex ain’t shit.

SeemedGood · 2021-02-19T04:14:10+00:00

...because the things which make men sexually attractive to women are not the same as the things which make women sexually attractive to men.

GridReXX · 2021-02-19T01:07:14+00:00

These are terrible examples I’m about to use because these men are genetically good looking.

However they’re viral tweets I saw recently that highlight how much “posture, grooming, styling, and sexy energy” can make someone go from eliciting “hm I guess” to “damn daddy” in others.

Example 1

Example 2

Okay this guy sort of looks like a dweeb, but his after is giving Chad-Bowie, maybe gay, but hot

This guy chose a Chad-Bowie maybe gay look too, but hot.

My point is styling and comportment matters!!

But having a naturally well-defined jaw line goes a long way too. If you’re an “incel” with a square jaw, you’re probably just a dweeb who doesn’t know how to maximize his God-given good ratios.

Nuke42 · 2021-02-19T00:11:54+00:00

Because a lot of men aren't taught that or simply aren't interested in it. There is nothing more boring to me than going to get my hair cut or buying new clothes because I don't get anything from it. I don't see the value in those things.

TheBookOfSeil · 2021-02-19T00:12:58+00:00

Because men can't really change the things that might be holding them back. We don't have the option to grow half a foot taller instantly. We don't have the option to change our faces. A lot of the guys having problems can't simply "groom" their way into being attractive. If it was that easy, they'd probably do it.

Better just to say that women are picky to the point that some guys are just left without many choices other than to accept that or to keep trying and hope that something happens.

womanrespecter99 · 2021-02-19T01:03:40+00:00

Because if a woman wants to have sex with you, she’s going to have sex with you. Also, a good number of these “glow up” women you refer to have nothing to offer other than their looks. If they don’t glow up, then they have literally nothing to offer. It’s a sad reality, but it’s reality.

PronKing10 · 2021-02-19T02:29:54+00:00

I once suggested spending at least $25 for a haircut (it should be even more) on here and it wasn’t well received lol. Your post is right. Invest in yourself. Put some effort into yourself and you’ll have so many more options in dating/sex and life in general

TheRealLucifer_15 · 2021-02-19T03:52:15+00:00

We do actually put a lot of effort into ourselves, but we don’t make a big deal out of it like women do.

ijustwannabeagoat · 2021-02-19T10:55:23+00:00

Other people have already pointed out that men can’t control their height, frame, jawline, and dick size. Not all male body types are found equally attractive.

I would also add the following:

I’ve seen many men get called insecure or overcompensating for putting in too much effort into their appearance. If all women had high standards for hygiene and appearance, then men would put in the effort. But it’s not a priority for most women. You either have the physical qualities listed above or you don’t. And if you don’t a nice shirt won’t help you.
I’ve also experienced men being considered gay or not masculine enough for being well dressed and groomed all the time. I’ve seen it be a turn off for so many women. As mentioned above if women actually judged based on this stuff, men would be dressing up.
There’s an entire industry dedicated to women’s beauty. Women’s fashion is all designed to push or pull or tighten or accentuate your body in some way. Not to mention all kinds of creative ways to be revealing and not too revealing. Men’s fashion is shite. And experimenting with fashion, or taking fashion risks outside the norm isn’t attractive to women. Almost all women still prefer a traditional lumberjack masculine dude.

Source: I’ve always been really into fashion. (Used to spend a lot of time on tumblr) And I’m usually groomed and well dressed. Clothes is always clean and ironed of course. I’m also single.

AutoModerator · 2021-02-19T00:07:44+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

flapperfemmefatale · 2021-02-19T02:46:47+00:00

At the very least, men should be taught basic skincare. I've met so many who have an aversion to putting things on their faces.

infinitofluxo · 2021-02-19T04:55:18+00:00

Men have to be good at a lot of technical stuff to be attractive too, while most men would settle for an attractive woman that has no other use for him besides companionship and sex.

If men turned into shallow perfect skinned and fit beings to attract more women, they wouldn't be manly in other aspects which would then be a turn off, that is why gay men are usually the ones that opt for that path.

Basically you are saying that men should have great jobs, be supportive, smart, protective, cultured, strong and also have perfect skin and hair, clothes that fit well and a body shaped by exercise and surgery. That is a lot more than stunning women could ever offer.

el-zacharoo · 2021-02-19T10:27:30+00:00

Go watch Alpha M

cloudydays84 · 2021-02-19T15:21:50+00:00

I'm a pragmatist, which is just a fun way of saying I'm selectively lazy, that's the honest answer (for me atleast). The amount of effort I put into my appearance is the amount I feel most comfortable putting in, any less and I'd probably wouldn't like how I look and any more would just be extra unappealing work to me.

It's dumb for men to complain about and deflect without putting any effort at all. But I've seen the flip side where women put in a bunch of effort and still complain about having to put as much into it (social expectations and whatnot).

So I go full middle ground where I only put in what I feel is comfortable and I get to keep to keep my complaints minimal to non-existent.

eht_amgine_enihcam · 2021-02-19T16:06:08+00:00

I have a decently extensive skincare routine, a flattering haircut, and I dress decently well. In these areas I'm pretty sure I've put in a similar amount of effort to most women.

Women then put a lot of time into makeup. I can't do this. I'd say the closest would be a beard to hide a weak jawline (if you can grow one) or sunnies to hide a weak eye area.

Women can "enhance" attributes like breast size, ass shape (heels) and height using a variety of things. The closest thing men have to this are platform shoes which will get you laughed out of the room if someone spots them. Women have many more opportunities, which they take, to improve their looks, which takes additional time.

Men put a similar amount of effort into the areas which work more for MEN. Many of these areas are those that give you status and money. You don't think people buy sportscars and stuff because they love the car do you? They also hit the gym. Do you really think men work out 5-6 times a week and often resort to roids just for the love of the sport?

These generally take more time to see results but also have a higher ceiling than the methods employed by women to become more attractive. Men KNOW that if they're a millionaire DJ with a six pack they're going to get laid all day, but they're not gonna hit that point until their thirties. That is what society tells us.

Also, I feel the standard for looks in men is higher than for women. Men have hugely varying tastes. There's one for any ethnicity, any height, any weight. Unchangeable things like a hugely weak jaw or short height will rule out a large % of men right out of the gate even if they improve all their shit.

JohnDoe721 · 2021-02-19T17:39:09+00:00

Yes , I cant wait until men start wearing lipstick and telling their dates they need 2 hours to get ready.

oulipost · 2021-02-19T19:54:56+00:00

Women don’t value physical appearance as much as men do. Men feel they must impress women in other ways such as making money, gaining status in some field, etc.

timetovisitgandy · 2021-02-19T20:35:57+00:00

Women don't care about grooming outside of the very basics. They care about immutable characteristics. There's no grooming for your height.

SnowHatesWome · 2021-02-19T20:42:41+00:00

Women could roll out of bed wearing an oversized t-shirt and sweats and men will want to have sex with her. No make up done morning breath and all. This is 🧢

infps · 2021-02-19T21:02:37+00:00

The logical followup question would be, "If the time they would spend on this per week, paid at their normal hourly rate, would easily pay for a prostitute's time and a 'sure thing,' then why would a man bother?"

My wife easily spends an hour on this a day, and 7 x hourly would have bought me at least one nice prostitute a week over my entire working life. Even when I was quite young, a decent one every two or three weeks.

However, I also just like feeling and looking good, so skincare routines are important.

colgateexpert · 2021-02-19T21:05:57+00:00

If you think that women put more effort into dating than men, then I suggest you move out of whatever rock you're living under

NeedingAdvice86 · 2021-02-19T21:27:02+00:00

My GF and I have come to the realization that women simply see REALITY much differently than men....we don't know if it is the different number of cones in their eyes, some brain difference or that women apparently see in many more shades of color than men but there is a massive difference, including a huge tendency toward herding (where if a guy is "considered" hot by another group of girls, then they see said dude as "hot")

My GF and I were at a SuperBowl watching event recently, sitting a the bar and we kept hearing the girls beside us raving about some dude in the back at a table who was "hot" and "oohhhh"....well, we had to get a gander at this Adonis that was getting these girl atwitter....my GF came back rolling her eyes and saying "WTF, that guy is trollish"...I looked at him on a restroom run and good, lord he was scuzzy as hell, moonface\chubb, scraggy splotchy beard and wearing frumpy clothing in mismatched colors which may or may not have been washed this week?

We talked about it for a while....but were NEVER able to 'see' what this group of girls was moaning over? They had to be seeing in a different reality is the only explanation and most certainly NOT something that 90% of the guys would ever emulate to "attract" girls...in fact, if 90% of guys went out looking like this, they wouldn't be allowed in most cafes and restaurants in this town but he could have taken home a 6some that evening with this group of girls.....

Upmybuttpleasesir · 2021-02-19T23:15:50+00:00

unless he's a pansy why should he worry about his clothes and hair?

these things dont make him a man, and dont pay the rent so I dont care.

what next...men with painted toe nails

Brilliant-Hornet1916 · 2021-02-20T00:15:29+00:00

Well the large majority of women's glow up is caking their face with make up. Some of the before and afters make up tutorials you see are striking, from 4/10 zombie to an 8/10.

That is not an option for men to attract women. Men who cover their face with transformation levels of make up will look like they should be in a drag show. Most women are not attracted to the drag queen look. Believe me, if men could apply make up and go from a 4/10 to an 8/10 in the eyes of women, they'd be doing it.

As for other stuff, it's just delusion to believe unattractive men are unattractive because they've not had the right haircut. If you walk into a nightclub, you'll see 100 young guys basically dressed the exact same in their skinny jeans with their fade fuckboy haircuts - are all 100 of them attractive? No, because only a small percentage of them are tall with good looking facial features. The idea that the guy getting laid in the club over all the others is doing so because of his grooming is just laughable.

90% of a man's attrativeness is completely out of his control - that is height, frame, facial features and hairline/hair density. If a man is short, narrow shoulders, ugly face and a norwood 3 then he's not going to style and groom his way to getting laid. Just stop it.

The only thing a man can do to (naturally) maximise his potential is lifting weights and don't get fat. Basic grooming like getting a haircut and not dressing like a slob is stuff almost everyone does, the idea you'll walk into your workplace after a haircut and you'll stand out above the rest of the guys because they've never had a haircut is bordering on parody.

Anything else that would make a true difference would fall in the realm of cosmetic treatments/surgey.

Sid_Insidious · 2021-02-20T02:47:34+00:00

Because grooming doesn't give the average male the same SMV boost make-up and clothes give the average woman.

It's a cost-benefit thing. A guy who's a five will not become an 8 with some grooming and new shoes. And a disheveled 8 will still do better, even if he looks unkempt.

AidsVictim · 2021-02-21T06:59:27+00:00

Most women are attractive to most men without a huge amount of grooming. A lot female effort is spent towards attracting the most desirable men or competing with other women. Their level of grooming isn't strictly necessary to attract the average man.

For men this relationship is inverted - average men are not actively sexually attractive to women. This baseline level of "unbalanced" attractiveness has little to do with grooming or socializing, it's rooted in biology.

Extra grooming will not help average men much (exceptions for fat-to-fit men or guys who have truly dreadful shower once a week habits). Face, height, frame can't be improved. Personality can help but it's quite difficult for most people to really change that (and most womens advice about personality is borderline worthless anyway).

just_a_place · 2021-02-23T05:26:26+00:00

I don't put too much effort in "glowing up" simply out of the fact that it won't fool anyone. As a guy there is only so much I can do, beyond that we start entering drag queen territory.

For example: What else do you propose a man should do as far as grooming besides: Shower, shampoo, shave, lotion, deodorant? What else can we possibly do?

Also you're not talking clothing style which is a whole other beast besides grooming. I have no idea how style or fashion or how any of that stuff works. It all looks the same to me and in fact a lot of these supposed "styles" look dorky and awkward as hell to be honest. This "style" thing just doesn't make any sense at all to me, I don't get it.

As for hairstyles we can only do so much based on the shape of our head. Also, we have to get haircuts about every 2 weeks so there is no reason to be experimenting with looks. And how would a haircut look flattering? That's another thing I don't get. Hair is hair, it's all the same. Just cut it and be done with it.

Nothing is stopping us, it's just that I think you are making a case here where none exists. Male grooming is not an art. We do it to get clean, that's it.

Also you don't seem to know this but we have no clue what women find sexy, not one clue! 50% of women I meet say I am sexy while the other 50% say I am "ugh." So which ones are right? It also doesn't help at all that when women give advice on how men can be sexy and we then try it we find out very quickly that this advice sucks. At least in my case I honestly admit I haven't got a damned clue what women are attracted to, all I know is how to spot when a woman is actually attracted and that is the woman I will pay attention to and I won't bother with the rest. I think most men go about life this way. There is nothing we can do to improve our chances with women physically only materially like flashing wealth and status. But as far as the looks department we will just stick to the women who seem attracted.

Whisper · 2021-02-23T09:10:45+00:00

Wrong question.

The correct question is "if men want to be more attractive to women, on what aspects of themselves should they focus their efforts?".

old_wise_man_ · 2021-02-19T00:57:17+00:00

Because doing these kind of things are guaranteed to have sex? i can do all these things you mention. It’s not guaranteed that I will get laid so what the point? Calculate cost/benefit to see if it’s worth . If it’s not why try? Ex. I dont pick fights that I know I can’t win. When I pick a fight I need to be 99.9/100% sure I will win. Same principle applie.

2021-02-19T03:43:20+00:00

Sheesh if a woman wants to date another woman she should just say so instead of demanding that a man should act like one.

Gilmoregirlin · 2021-02-19T02:42:57+00:00

I agree and we are talking about really simple things like ironing your shirt or not showing up dressed like a slob. These don’t cost much money to do. I had a good friend that was really good looking but his wardrobe left much to be desired. I grew up pretty poor but my Mom used to take us shopping at Sears. This was a few years ago before they were in bad financial shape. I told him give me $100 and come to Sears with me and I would hook him up, and literally it changed his entire look, and the amount of second, third and fourth dates he got, and he had a serious girlfriend within a few months. I also took him to my hair dresser to get a good haircut. He did not need designer clothes, just clothes that fit him well and looked good on him. I think a lot of times though guys just don’t know or maybe don’t think it matters? It’s about putting your best foot forward.

simeneta · 2021-02-19T00:37:53+00:00

The majority of men I went on dates with did put effort into their appearance. They had nice haircuts, dressed well, hit the gym, had clear skin and showered regularly.

If you're saying men would have an easier time dating if they started doing Patrick Batemen level skincare routines that's completely B.S. The above list is all men need in terms of physical investment to get women. Beyond that it's more about their personality/game/ability to close.

If you're saying you don't see many men doing the above list, then that says more about where you live and/or your social circle.

Cybercunt2069 · 2021-02-19T06:48:33+00:00

When will you morons understand the fact that women drool over IMMUTABLE features. No amount of grooming will fix height for example.

LeatherDifference583 · 2021-02-19T01:15:02+00:00

Fuck knows.

My two best lockdown friends are men of 43 and 51. They have not had much luck with the ladies at all. The 43yo told me he hadn't been laid in 'years' (which I'm assuming is three years).

One is 43 who looks about mid thirties (thanks to oily skin and good genetics). He has nice facial features and is 6'2" tall. He also dresses really dorky, has huge glasses and a big belly (legs, face and arms don't look fat though).

The 52yo eats really healthy and has ok facial features. His has longish scruffy hair but a bald patch, and he also has quite a bit of a belly on him (which is the only 'fat' feature he has.

I have told them TIME and TIME AGAIN that during lockdown when they are BOTH UNEMPLOYED that they should get really fit and develop gorgeous bodies. They never take me seriously. I have also told them to have a skincare regime to mitigate aging and told them how a a good haircut and style will improve their looks.

None of this information has an impact. It really is like talking to a brick wall. My gay male friends diet, exercise, moisturise and have nice haircuts - why aren't my straight friends ?!

Meanwhile I work 30hrs and have a child to look after 5 days a week. I do squats every day, run every day and have a skincare regime. I have also ordered invisible aligners for my teeth and learned to cut my own hair.

davidfosford21 · 2021-02-19T00:32:54+00:00

most women don't find overly groomed men attractive

https://imgur.com/a/qrZqdcl

most women find the right version repulsing. rugged unkemptness is sexy with men

wtknight · 2021-02-19T00:52:53+00:00

[removed]

sublimemongrel · 2021-02-19T01:50:16+00:00

It’s not socially endorsed and encouraged the same way. Also some men are just lazy

Prize-Thought-4205 · 2021-02-19T06:06:22+00:00

I understand what the OP is trying to do here but this just doesn't add up. Society has always told men that their looks do not matter, and demonized them if they groom or take care of their appereance. But in reality there's only so much a guy can do and it still might not be enough for a lot of sexy women unless its mixed with a ton of other things. (Whatever society tells her is sexy & to bend over for).

It doesn't matter, if the guy isn't 6ft +, doesn't have status, intelligence, charisma & confidence (which can come from being genetically blessed or be worked for) or if he has none of all these things fame + wealth. The guy can be invisible to 80%+ of women in his environments sexually.

The game really is rigged.

You think a 5'4 dark skinned guy can get as many opportunities for sex, affection, and love as a 5'10 white man? Sure its possible but in general that's ridiculous, the white guy gets x10000 more opportunities by default and better treatment from all women, even if he is unconscious of it without stepping into others shoes, most 6ft+ guys don't even understand the depth of their sexual privilege. They don't think of themselves as sexy or having power over attractive women until they get fit & muscular.

When women worship you without ever knowing your personality, character, and how you treated all the women in your past all of these guys love to think "Oh wow, this sexy chick is treating me this nicely because i'm special & she realizes it ;)"

All the unconventionally attractive women & average or sometimes even below average/chubby women fuck and love being used, dumped by them. The top 20% of men in a sphere. All the attractive women go for them too. They get so upset when these guys 2 leagues above them don't want anything serious or always have them as side pieces or ONS.

I mean, I have an alright looking girlfriend but it took years of hard work and following all the non stop "improve yourself" advice everyone keeps dishing at guys but i'm not gonna pretend all my friends didn't have it a million times easier, sexy girls are just given to them and they don't put nearly as much effort into appereance as me, they just naturally look that good to women.

It's super dangerous for women to say or think things like this, when I first started my journey one chick I was interested in treated me like complete dog **** because she thought I wasn't taking care of myself but I actually was... and that stuck with me for years, the same girl proceeded to have sex with a friend of mine to spite me, and thinking he actually gives a shit about nutrition or skincare or sleeping. None, he had none of that and was just taller, had a natural good looking face. I have no negative feelings about it, its just nature playing out, but it did & still does disturb me just how tone death a lot of women are. They either don't know how non unique & bland their sexual choices are (determined by society & whatever they're conditioned by people to want) or lie about it so they don't think of themselves as superficial.

Men on the other hand, are open to & go for 80%+ of women unless she is fat or obese. I'm not saying anything about dating, sex, love, or anything is fair or anyone deserves anything. But they're the most fair, reasonable, non judgemental sex when it comes to relationships. They never discriminate based on things they can't change at all and are open to having sex with all ethnicities of women.

tritoneharmonies · 2021-02-19T08:33:22+00:00

Men probably think about these things ('what makes me attractive') mostly through concrete results, which means that getting attention and validation from women is the only 'real' metric of attractiveness. So when we tell them that self care makes them attractive, it might be a frustrating experience to get that response as the only guideline, because 'how does this waste of effort give any tangible results', right?
Instead of framing self care as something to help one get laid, it'd probably help to frame it as something that improves one's emanating energy and sense of self worth. Self respect (shown in all the little things you put effort to) and glowing up alone won't make anyone objectively handsome, but it's a crucial gateway to tapping into what attractiveness one has but hasn't been able to fully realize.
What's stopping them is the mentality and how the issue is framed. If the issue was framed differently, and self care was seen as a practice of improvement and respect, it'd be far more effortless to keep up with it. Culture is the base for these types of routines. It's not about the lack or resources, it's the lack of definite place that self care has for post modern men. And the guys that, against expectations, do groom themselves beyond basic self care, often end up picking it up as a lifestyle (which you're pretty much meant to do and that's how it works) BUT still resenting the fact that it hasn't led to 'actual results', such as getting a girlfriend/laid/whatever.

Men will never be truly 'chased back', but women sure as hell are not gonna suddenly flee faster from a guy who has good energy and is pleasant for most of the six senses (not just one). Quite the opposite actually.

2021-02-19T14:11:55+00:00

It’s been a struggle to get every man I’ve dated to use moisturizer, or even sunscreenSo they don’t burn and then I have to take care of their whiny baby asses. And these are men that have a proper sense of style and grooming already. Maybe the younger generation will be more attuned to it because men over 35 are just going to age

SaBahRub · 2021-02-19T00:30:39+00:00

Have you read the relationships subs? You don’t have to be a functioning adult or even wipe your ass and a woman will still be willing to fuck, date, and even support you!

Standards are already on the floor. I can’t even blame men for not trying if they can get away with it. Tolerating that shit is on women

idonthavtitsbcimaguy · 2021-02-19T00:57:34+00:00

What the men who have sex know but won't tell you is that they do put the same amount of effort in. Contrary to what the guys in this sub think, being attractive is a choice. They think the men who get sex just happen to have chiseled abs, stylish cut and clothes, and confident personality. "Oh, but I can't change my face. I can't change my height. I can't change my indian skin." Who gives a fuck. Girls don't give a fuck about your height or race when you're pinning them against the wall. They only care about it if you let yourself care about it. Being attractive is a choice. It takes work, but it's a choice. "I'm 5'7", I stand no chance." No. You stand no chance because instead of making something for yourself you spend all day eating cheetos and playing warzone bitch.

ericat713 · 2021-02-19T10:25:50+00:00

Look, at least once a week I read a post by a woman who is asking if she'd be an asshole if she pointed out the shit crumbles that fall out of her boyfriend's ass crack because he doesn't know how to properly wipe his own butt.

Men aren't putting in effort because too many women have been taught to accept low, low standards.

SuspiciousAd5402 · 2021-02-19T01:10:12+00:00

Well.. That's like asking if women don't want more opportunities for sex, why are they putting all these effort into grooming, self care etc?

BlackPorcelainDoll · 2021-02-19T01:54:15+00:00

Style also involves character, personality, body language, speech and etiquette - not just "grooming". No one cares about your "powerful man suit" or Giuseppe heels if you can't walk in them.

Fortunately for women, they tend to have much more style than men, all the way down to the "hip-swish" in your walk and other social hacks my mother kept trying to teach me when I was just a little thing.

It is a lie style is all about "grooming". Style is rare and also everything!

Texan2116 · 2021-02-19T03:14:21+00:00

some time ago, I had made a point to a friend that women, overwhelmingly dressed better, just to go to wal mart for example. And so we literally did a sort of Mini -survey, at walmart and I forget the exact numbers, but without a doubt, women do put more attention , into their daily appearance. Sure you have exceptions, but thats it.

verdeluxcifer · 2021-02-19T03:33:41+00:00

The ones who have figured it out did that long ago... they starve themselves live at the gym spend money on grooming and products and give what women are looking for in a NSA hookups

Yeah there are def some incel neckbeard types that think its their right to have some punchmeat laying around, but those bitter weirdos have always been and always will be.

DanielLaRussoJohny · 2021-02-19T07:03:28+00:00

What makes you think I don’t 🙄

KonigsTiger1 · 2021-02-19T13:26:28+00:00

I think the opposite. You see gyms packed full of men working out, you don;t see too many women. Putting a bit of make up on a woman who is overweight and never worked out wont make a big difference.

ColonelGray · 2021-02-19T13:40:44+00:00

If I tried pulling the filter bullshit every girl does on social media I'd be bullied to death.

We need to admit the immense double standards on both sides before any change can come about.

CapableDeer9 · 2021-02-19T10:38:22+00:00

Men spend more time in the gym than women to make themselves look fit. Women just poor make up on, don't see much effort in that.

Atlas__B__Shruggin · 2021-02-19T00:08:43+00:00

because none of that closes the deal in the way you MUST learn to in order get from looking good to fucking

cunningcaring · 2021-02-19T01:10:14+00:00

This is not what women are looking for. Where do these ridiculous posts come from?

CrabBucketSecurity · 2021-02-19T06:46:22+00:00

Personally, I’m not attracted to women who put in too much effort into their appearance, my gf doesn’t wear make up and doesn’t wear expensive clothes or take ages to get ready.

Omario6 · 2021-02-19T10:30:05+00:00

No ,it is because women only attracted to face. The more handsome you are, the more successful you are with females. It has nothing to do with grooming or fitness or any other shit