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Stoicism vs. nice guy (self.askMRP)

submitted by 91dudeman

Hey guys,

Long time lurker here. “NMMNG” was a very enlightening read for me. A question I have is regarding confrontation. For a guy early in my journey, STFU has done wonders for my slowly building frame. However, I do recall that “nice guys” often avoid confrontation by shutting down. I am guilty of this, in a previous relationship I set no boundaries, and hamstered it as “being stoic”. How do you determine when a minor boundary should be addressed? It’s clearly blue pill to spill your guts out every time you feel uncomfortable, but the opposite, holding everything in, seems potentially just as blue pill.


[–]The_LitzRed Beret10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Your reaction to external inputs is what deferentiates the two.

Nice guys will react on others' demands, having frame means not reacting to others demands.

It boils down to a little power play, taking someones time from them.

With stoicism the main part is, do not react to things you cannot change. You waste your energy and time worrying, arguing and wringing your hands in agony over something you have no control over.

People want a reaction from you to validate their outrage.

I often practice/play with other people, it is not just reserved for the wife.

Eg. Some time ago a dentist went to Africa and shot a lion. The details are a bit vague now but the lion was known in the area, even had a name. Cecil the lion. People were outraged aboit it, doxxed his practice etc.

Whenever someone wanted to pull me into their Cecil the lion drama, I just asked them whether lions were an endangered speci in Africa. 99% didn't know or care, they were just outraged. They were reacting to external inputs that society/media threw in their direction to see if there is a response.

Choose what you react to, that is at the heart of stoicism. It is your time and energy being used to further other's goals.

[–]91dudeman[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Awesome, thanks!

[–]MrChad_ThundercockChief Autist in Charge3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yes tell her every time you feelz uncomfortable, after all, communication is key. //s

[–]91dudeman[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

That will get me sex, right?

[–]MrChad_ThundercockChief Autist in Charge2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

BJs and anal only

[–]rocknrollchuck2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]91dudeman[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

These are both helpful for me, thank you.

[–]rocknrollchuck1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Here's a link to more posts that you might find helpful

[–]NoCoast820 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thats a gold mine there!

[–]johneyapocalypse1 point2 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Stoicism, confrontation, shutting down, and being a nice guy are all different things.

Your boundaries need not be analyzed and parsed; they represent your core principles. They must exist for all things big and small alike.

Never second-guess standing up for your core principles.

Striking a balance between over-communicating and keeping too much inside really need not be hard.

Just a few simple rules:

  1. Don't bitch.
  2. Don't whine.
  3. Don't complain.
  4. Don't talk endlessly about problems, unless you bring along solutions.

[–]91dudeman[S] 1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for this. Could you give examples of minor boundaries you have set? It’s not difficult for me to grasp the major boundaries, but I have a hard time even conceiving of the smaller ones.

[–]johneyapocalypse9 points10 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

  • She's chronically late. Now she knows if she's late I leave by myself. She manages to be on time. How about that.
  • If she needs something from me and needs it to actually get done I need it in writing. Period. Email, text, etc. I have staff and assistants and a full calendar, and I need her working within my system.
  • Clean home. Need not be perfect but if she's not trying and it's all me then I don't see much need for her and have told her as much.
  • Procrastination. Working on that one now. I've told her to schedule things for our kids in advance because not much else of the world operates on "Spanish time." She also knows that if I have to take on managing our kid's schedules, too, then I draw the line and that is my no mas point... The point where I don't see her providing sufficient value. We had a shit show over that last night and she told me she was moving out. I said good. She said a few more things. I said 'fuck you' - something I rarely say to her. Pretty quickly she started backing down. I told her I wanted her to go. The next morning she had to leave early, tucked me under the covers, whispered 'I love you' and said no one is leaving.
  • Sharing plans (e.g. calendar). If she doesn't let me know then she can expect no help or accommodations from me.

Know that virtually all of these boundaries come from her god-given talent to behave just like an irresponsible teenager, wherever and whenever possible, rebeling against any and all systems or processes that make sense. Enabling those behaviors wreaks havoc when one has lots of responsibilities, including many people to manage. If she wants to fuck off and behave like a child, fine... But she faces the consequences... which I've made clear.

She thinks the world operates in some kind of Disney time and manner where you can do whatever, whenever, wherever, all outside the boundaries of reality, aka the real world.

Fucking woman.

[–]91dudeman[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Very helpful. Thanks!

[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Would make a good post.

[–]pridebrah0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

She thinks the world operates in some kind of Disney time and manner where you can do whatever, whenever, wherever, all outside the boundaries of reality, aka the real world.

That's actually a really good short summary of women. I like.

[–]johneyapocalypse0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Many years ago, long before I found MRP, I told her that she lives in Disney World.

I have told her quite a few times since.

She's grown increasingly irritated with that comment over time, knowing that it's true. She's a disaster. She's a woman.

[–]pridebrah0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I've often thought with my LTR(s), "this chick lives in some kind of fucking fantasy world." Now I know -- it's Disney World.

[–]RuleZeroDADRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

"Spanish Time"

I just see her taking a siesta in the middle of prime civilization time and blaming it on her culture. Hilarious.

[–]RedPillCoach0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Minor boundaries

We will not fight in front of the kids and when one of us says something to the kids the other will support them.

I thought this was simple and obvious enough to state overtly. As it turned out, when I made this "agreement" with my wife the way it played out was that I kept my end and supported her, but she always found a way to argue with me about something I said to the kids.

I learned quickly that you can't make a deal with a woman unless you hold the power to enforce the deal. I could not make her "support me" with the kids so I changed the boundary and only enforce something with the kids that I can completely control. For example, if I tell the kids no X-Box if you do X, Y, or Z then they know I am going to take the X-Box and lock it away. I literally had to purchase a locked trunk with a combination that only I know because she would habitually undermine me when the kids went to her crying and give them back the electronic device. You would be wise to never forget that Women are the ultimate underminers and the ultimate betrayers. Trust, but verify always.

Now the kids know mom is out of the picture and they have to deal with Dad. They know Mom can't listen to their whining and tears and get the X-Box back for them until Dad says so.

This is how I dealt with a minor boundary and a continued breach of that "minor" boundary.

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The nuance with boundaries is taht you don't care about the outcome as much as about what you expect. She can still very well decide to do what she wants. Then you do what you need to.

Her actions will speak volumes. In other words boundaries are more about you than about her.

It should be as simple as saying...My girl/wife doesn't or my girl/wife does....the implication being that any woman can fulfill the role of your girl/wife.

[–]man_in_the_worldRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Learn to express your emotions like a man.

Read also STFU and you and Stop tolerating bullshit. Start showing controlled anger.

[–]RedPillCoach0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

How do you determine when a minor boundary should be addressed

Once you have boundaries you can easily tell when they are crossed.

holding everything in

That is not the purpose of STFU. The purpose is to keep you from popping off and wrecking your early progress by getting into a fight with your woman.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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