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Found messages between wife and ex (self.askMRP)

submitted by Raptor_Pilkington

Tonight, I found some messages between my wife and an ex-boyfriend of hers. The messages were from a few months ago. He was hitting on her. She was kind of turning him down, KIND OF, but not telling him to fuck off. It was a flirty conversation that crossed the line. There were clear indications that there had been other conversations possibly using other apps. I think she had deleted this particular thread on this one app, but it came back, since it wasn't there the last time I was snooping around her phone. She is pretty open with her phone, probably because she thinks she is doing enough to hide shit like this.

Old me would have confronted her tonight. Old me would not have been able to keep his shit together. Old me would have felt shocked and betrayed. New me kept his mouth shut. New me went to the gym to do some cardio to blow off some steam. New me wasn't shocked. New me said, fuck do I need to get over my oneitis so if shit hits the fan I wouldn't have that holding me back and I'll be ready. New me said, work harder on you so she fears you cheating and not vice versa. New me knows talking to her about it is useless. Maybe I tell her I know; maybe I don't. New me knows that showing this kind of insecurity is unattractive and I can't add to the unattractive pile right now. On the other hand... maybe I should tell her that I know, that it's completely unacceptable.

Do I think she has cheated on me? Probably not. It's not because she is religious and conservative and is very strong on family, or because her family would crucify her if she did something like that. It's because she really hasn't had any opportunity. She doesn't go anywhere ever, and when I'm at work, she is home with the kids. Is it possible she could have dropped the kids off at her mom's one day, or snuck out in the middle of the night? Yes. AWALT. Is there any way I would know if she did? Almost certainly not. So what matters is what I know.

What I know is that she can't be trusted. What I know is AWALT. What I know is that her loyalty is in question. What I know is that cheating is a deal breaker and if it happens I need to know about it so I can take the measures I've already planned for. What I know is that having a flirty conversation with an ex-boyfriend in which he asks you out for drinks and you say tell me next time you're in town, oh but hey what we had was meaningless and I'm married, so thanks for letting it go, but let's keep this flirty conversation going, is crossing a line. It's playing with fire, it's completely and totally disrespectful, it may just be the tip of the iceberg.

I need to put monitoring software on her phone. I'm going to read up on it and do that soon. I don't know whether I'm going to confront her about it or not. I'm on the fence about it. If she was doing stupid shit like this because it gave her feelz that she wasn't getting from me, that's on me. She is doing exactly what she is programmed to do. I need to respond appropriately and in a calculated manner that achieves my objectives. And right now those objectives are maintaining and improving the relationship, as long as she stays faithful.


[–]Alphaphux28 points29 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

You fucked up massively when you went to do cardio... unless you were benching the treadmill

[–]gettingmymojobackRed Beret4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for making me snort my coffee.

Normally I'd tend to agree with you, but if you're following a lifting program, hitting the gym for more lifting might not be in your own best interest if you've already nailed your workout that day. I hate doing anything that will screw up my routine for the rest of the week.

Going to bench when you already benched heavy that day, or have bench tomorrow as your main lift MIGHT be a bad idea.

For those reasons alone, IF I end up leaving to hit the gym I usually end up doing some sort of HIIT complex. They can still be just as punishing and more conditioning never hurt anybody.

There's a big difference between 30min of light jogging on the treadmill and HIIT intervals until you want to puke.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I do HIIT intervals. Last night was pretty much one 30-minute HIIT interval.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Point taken. I had done my upper body workout a couple hours earlier. But when has more lifting hurt anyone.

[–]rocknrollchuck16 points17 points  (38 children) | Copy Link

Don't confront her - she'll just get better at hiding it. Start checking up on her and saving evidence / proof for later. Keep improving. In time you will know whether this is worth saving or not.

DON'T SAY ANYTHING! STFU!!!

[–]jagged_edge_pill-1 points0 points  (36 children) | Copy Link

I understand your POV. However, in OP's mind his SO's behaviour is unacceptable. He even calls it disrespectful. I would consider it a boundary violation. Boundaries are meaningless unless enforced and defended. Wouldn't this be a good time to defend those boundaries e.g "my wife wouldn't flirt with her ex." Also, how do you continue to be a fun guy (with her) when you know she is flirting with her ex in the open (poor opsec on her part is asking to be caught).

[–]fuckmrpRed Beret7 points8 points  (35 children) | Copy Link

While I agree about boundaries, telling women not to do shit just doesn't work. This does not sound like a hard boundary for him. If he's going to blow this up it needs to end with GTFO.

Otherwise all he's doing is telling her to hide her shit better.

[–]AustralianArm2 points3 points  (34 children) | Copy Link

Nothing like a minor intelligence leak to improve OpSec procedures.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (33 children) | Copy Link

This is 90% of the reason I posted. I've seen so many posts like this one and I've always been fuzzy on whether to confront or not. There doesn't seem to ever be a consensus one way or another.

I wouldn't confront her like "Look what you did! How could you!" That's fucking stupid. I would wait a month and simply ask if she has been in touch with any ex-boyfriends. If she says no, I will know she is a liar, and that she really can't be trusted. I will tell her that I've seen conversations with ex-boyfriends. I wouldn't be specific. This way, I would plant a seed of doubt in her mind that no matter how hard she tries, she will slip up and I'll find out so better not risk it. I would establish a boundary that shouldn't have to be set: that having flirty conversations with ex-boyfriends and hiding it and lying about it will not be tolerated. Establishing this boundary and monitoring her phone with software afterwards gives me the opportunity to test whether she will respect this boundary. Also, what a great opportunity to tell her what the apocalyptic consequences of infidelity will be. Women are weak and need to be protected. Women do stupid things that are not in their best interest. Women need to be protected from themselves.

On the other hand, her offense wasn't that bad. Giving a fuck about it makes me look weak and insecure. And anyone who has seen my posts knows how I am struggling with oneitis to a ridiculous extent. This is a great opportunity to be reminded that she is not a unicorn. This is a great opportunity to internalize IDGAF. I obviously give a fuck about this. I shouldn't. I should just double down on my efforts to improve myself and get to the point where she is terrified of losing me.

[–]Nec_sorte_Nec_fato0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

If she says no, I will know she is a liar, and that she really can't be trusted.

There's zero chance she's going to cop to it until you force her hand with the proof (you did capture the evidence, didn't you?). What the fuck do you expect? If you force it (prove with evidence) your whole situation becomes a distracting shit show.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I didn't capture evidence. I didn't want to risk her knowing that I know by taking screen shots or something like that and slipping up. If it was something really bad, I would have documented it. What I found wasn't bad in and of itself. It only is an indicator that there might be more that I don't know about.

[–]WesternhagenWinner0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

"I can't take advantage of her poor OPSEC because my OPSEC also sucks."

(facepalm)

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I deserved that

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (12 children) | Copy Link

What exactly are you looking for her to do here? throw herself on the spire for forgiveness? How far into the sidebar are you, do you need more examples of how trickle truth work?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy Link

What exactly are you looking for her to do here?

I'm looking for her to respect me and respect our family enough to resist the urge to twirl her hair and have flirty conversations with ex-boyfriends because gosh it feelz so good. That is disrespectful to me, to our family, and it is dangerous behavior that leads to cheating. Cheating is an absolute deal breaker. If she is flirting with ex-boyfriends or doing other things that lead to cheating, I want to know about it so I can act accordingly. And if she cheats, I want to know about it. I know what comes next and I'm not afraid of it. What comes next is nowhere near as bad as being a fucking cuck.

How far into the sidebar are you

Far enough to know what a fucking idiot I was in thinking I was or ever will be safe, and how I need to stop kicking the can down the road and figure out how to deal with the ego and the oneitis.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

I'm looking for her to respect me and respect our family enough to resist the urge to twirl her hair and have flirty conversations with ex-boyfriends because gosh it feelz so good.

So you want to put the happiness and success of your family onto her to fix? Even if you could articulate this goal to her, that pressure will throw her directly on Chads dick.

You want control, over her, and life. Both aren't gonna happen.

And the proplem with these mental models, is that they trickle down into all your other behaviours, and cause many fucked up things to happen.

She's Machiavellian, and you're still pretending good faith. I'd suggest reworking your goals into something you actually have control over. you got a family, you have you, she is outside this, and clearly has no fear about losing either.

Set yourself up to replace her the weekend after she fucks up. It's not a goal in and of itself, but it does cover your bases, while you figure out something within your control.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

My family IS happy and successful, and it's because of me, and my family will continue to be happy and successful, and achieve even greater happiness and success, because of me. I don't need her to fix anything. One thing I have never had a problem with is taking responsibility for things. The only thing that's broken in our lives is her attraction to me which is 100% on me, and what I've been working on for the past 3 months. That's why I'm here. I don't need her to do anything but not fuck things up. Her having flirty conversations with ex-boyfriends leads to cheating. That is extremely irresponsible, reckless behavior. If she cheats, we go our separate ways and our kids grow up in a broken home. That is what's at stake. Sure, I'll continue working toward being the type of man who she wouldn't think of cheating on. But that's going to take more time and it's not insurance against cheating. Every woman has the capacity to cheat. All you can do is minimize the risk by being the best man you can possibly be, and setting and enforcing appropriate boundaries. You need to protect them from themselves because they will fuck shit up for themselves, their husbands, and their kids, for a moment of feelz, because that is their nature.

Set yourself up to replace her the weekend after she fucks up.

This. Right here. This is at the heart of what I'm working toward. I need to become a man who can spin plates. Thus will I kill my oneitis and develop true abundance mentality. Her attraction for me will surge, and if it doesn't, wtf do I care, I can tell her to fuck off and go spin plates. And if she fucks up, great, the weekend after, I have a perfect excuse to tell her to fuck off and go spin plates.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

I don't need her to do anything but not fuck things up

out of your control man. The best attitude I had when I started my MAP was that it was already dead and over. She was my sparring partner, to practice fixing any bullshit I had to work on.

She was already gone, she just didn't know it yet. And being the typical romantic, there was always that olive branch, if she shaped up and got her shit together.

In my case, she did. In others, they don't.

But the big takeaway for me, was that what she did had no bearing on it.

[–]rocknrollchuck0 points1 point  (10 children) | Copy Link

I would wait a month and simply ask if she has been in touch with any ex-boyfriends. If she says no, I will know she is a liar, and that she really can't be trusted.

She can't be trusted. Accept it.

This way, I would plant a seed of doubt in her mind that no matter how hard she tries, she will slip up and I'll find out so better not risk it.

No you won't. All you will do is give her assurance that she needs to tighten up her OPSEC. And her hamster will find a way to justify her actions anyway.

Also, what a great opportunity to tell her what the apocalyptic consequences of infidelity will be.

Women talk. Men do. Collect the evidence, and when the time is right then SHOW her what the consequences are.

On the other hand, her offense wasn't that bad.

That you know of. Trickle truth. You probably don't know that half of it, especially considering that

There were clear indications that there had been other conversations possibly using other apps. I think she had deleted this particular thread on this one app

How bad does it have to be to be worse than "not that bad?" What will it take to convince you? Do you have to walk in on them having sex? I'm not saying that's happening, but it's a possibility. Don't bury your head in the sand, stay quiet and gather evidence instead.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

The best way I can gather evidence is to download software on her phone. Half the guys here are saying, don't do it. I'm not a mindless idiot who needs people on Reddit to tell him what to do. But I can see it both ways. I have no idea whether this is a step I should take.

[–]rocknrollchuck1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Which option is going to make YOU the most confident going forward? Do that.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

The only thing that's going to make me confident is continuing in the direction I've been going in - losing fat and building muscle mostly. Getting to the point where I can pull the attraction of women more attractive than my wife. If only to improve our relationship, and to have options if she fucks things up. None of this really impacts that.

I think what this whole thing amounts to is another phase of unplugging. Three months ago, I accepted the realities of male/female sexual dynamics. I accepted that my wife didn't want to fuck me because she wasn't attracted to me. What I don't think I accepted was my wife's capacity to cheat. This whole time, time and time again, people wrote, "Now I know what you're thinking. Not MY wife..." and I would think, yeah, that applies to everyone's wife but mine, for about 1 million reasons. Beyond the shadow of a doubt I knew this was something I didn't have to worry about. She's so religious! She's so family-oriented! She has no opportunity! Her only social circle is her family! She would be ostracized if she did anything like that! In a million years, I wouldn't have expected her to be flirting with an ex-boyfriend. Because I was fucking stupid and can't read. Each time someone ripped on me for thinking she is a unicorn, I thought, I don't think she's a unicorn. She just wouldn't cheat. Well she absolutely would. She might have. She might still. Maybe I'll find out about it. Maybe she'll take it to her grave. I didn't get this until now.

[–]rocknrollchuck1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

"Why do my eyes hurt?"

"You've never used them before."

That's what this place does - it opens your eyes, and shows you the path forward. It gives you some tools to get there. Which tools you use, and how you use them, are up to you.

That's why many times the answers here seem to contradict each other: the tools are the same, but how they are used in each situation is different based on the particulars of that situation and the people involved. There is no One-Size-Fits-All answer that will work in all situations.

[–]weakandsensitive0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

all this post shows is massive ego.

[–]weakandsensitive0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

suppose you confront her - then fucking what? what actually are you going to do about it? do you have an end game? doesn't sound like you do.

if you confronted her it'd be like every fucking faggot that does it. there's no end game - it's just a fucking pity party for the guy so the wife "feels" bad (you think she gives a fuck about a whiny cunt throwing himself a pity party?).

don't have an end game? don't waste time with bullshit.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Decided I'm definitely not going to confront her. Confronting her is stupid for the reasons you listed. This is why people like me have to STFU and wait a day. If I didn't keep this shit to myself and STFU, I would have confronted, and taken 10 giant steps bad.

Edit: 3 deleted comments were duplicates of this one

[–]cholomiteMod / BP Downvote Magnet10 points11 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

Good job figuring this shit out and finally understanding the true nature of women. However, don't get too caught up in tracking software and surveillance and all that shit. You're better off giving less fucks going forward than more. By all means, trust but verify, but don't get sucked in at the expense of your sanity. Focus on yourself first and foremost always.

[–]BobbyPeru9 points10 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

don't get sucked in at the expense of your sanity.

This. Trust me, OP that's where it leads. I've been to hell with surveillance in my BP days, and I don't want to go back.

[–]fuckmrpRed Beret12 points13 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Third. I wasted so much fucking time playing inspector gadget. If she acts suspicious hire a PI, it's not worth your time.

[–]BobbyPeru8 points9 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

Yep, and the time and energy it takes eats away your frame.

[–]gettingmymojobackRed Beret4 points5 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

I'll fourth this one. Been there done that.

If it progresses to more OP will eventually find out, regardless of surveillance or not. Eventually it always surfaces. No use in driving yourself crazy with paranoia.

Wether she crosses the line is irrelevant. The important part is that OP continues to work on himself and if she wants to blow it all up over drinks with an ex....let her. In that case OP gets to trade up to a younger model(s) without the disadvantage of all the old BP baggage he was carrying. It's all win-win for him.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

I appreciate the advice. This is a struggle. I agree on the importance of working on myself. This is first and foremost. On the other hand, I want to know what I am dealing with. She is always on her phone, up late after I'm in bed. She clears her internet history, clears her inboxes, uses apps like Snapchat. Maybe she clears her internet history because, well, fuck, I clear my internet history. Million reasons why someone would do that. Lots of her close family friends use Snapchat. Maybe she clears her inboxes because she has harmless conversations that she thinks I would flip out about. On the other hand, all of that seems suspicious. I asked her a year ago in my BP days if she chatted with exboyfriends and she said no. Maybe she was lying then, maybe not. But all of this seems to send up some red flags.

On the other hand, this is giving a fuck. This is time, money, and if she finds out about it, I look weak and insecure. And going in this direction may just end up making me crazy.

[–]mabden0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

end up making me crazy.

What would make you more crazy, not knowing or knowing?

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

Caring.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not knowing is worse. But I shouldn't give a fuck. The fact that I give a fuck is the problem here.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Do not say a single fucking word to her about this. If you do, then you are absolutely, 100 percent fucked.

Instead, gather evidence and prepare an exceptionally strong case in case you do have to head down the divorce route.

[–]Luckylancer960 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Even if he wants to reveal this, he should hide some of proofs to bait out lie story. It gives a huge advantage.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I'm keeping my mouth shut about this for the time being. That is the smartest thing someone can do.

[–]Luckylancer960 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

If you change your mind, dont forget baiting for made up story

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

What does baiting consist of?

[–]Luckylancer96-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You cheated! I didnt. I explain this why your ex came to our home without me. He forgot his tent when we broke up. Hmm ok i believe you.

Wait a little then: explain this messages in your phone, you was fucking for weeks! Shocked, cryies, drama, got fucked up

Edit: If you do this in court, showing missing evidence later, you will crush her defence.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

This just in: women seek validation from all sources and sometimes keep old flames on standby for validation.

Also this just in: old ex's sometimes have a bit of oneitis pangs for your wife.

/u/cholomite 's got it

Make a place where she doesn't want to piss away her time elsewhere or is more concerned with keeping up with you.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

This conversation happened several months ago. I wasn't lifting, I wasn't really losing weight, I was an emotional basket case, I was unpleasant and not fun. I think I've moved in a good direction these past 3 months in creating that place. Guys here told me don't expect any returns until 6 months minimum, and last of all from your wife. Things have improved and I'm sure they'll improve more. But based on everything I've read and learned, I'm skeptical that any amount of improvement is necessarily enough to overcome LTR fatigue/boredom in every woman. She has it really, really good right now. And with the trajectory I'm on, she has the potential to have it even better. But that doesn't mean she will necessarily respond. And it doesn't mean she won't get carried away and in a moment do something really fucking stupid.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

A woman who is going to cheat is going to cheat. Yeah, maybe if you can stealth steer her away from a rainy drive home and "chance" encounter it's a good maneuver. But not overtly, as that is weak mate guarding.

This interaction is mild. If it ever looked bad enough your gut would tell you it's P.I. time to CYA on alimony.

Still, can be a massive distraction from your own goals. Sounds like you need to go up a rung on the old dread ladder.

Women don't branch swing that see the branch is a lower rung. Especially an old branch. Also if the branch they are staying on looks like it's going to leave her behind she'll cling her ass to it or fall off.

And hey, what a better way to shake her out of her reverie than to Ugga Ugga Chad shank your Cave bone in her?

She's living in the past, make her concentrate on the now.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

This interaction is mild. If it ever looked bad enough your gut would tell you it's P.I. time to CYA on alimony.

My gut has always had a problem with her and her phone. I get that she might be doing things that are harmless but would embarrass her or else she thinks they will piss me off and so she hides it all. When I saw the interaction, mild as it was, my gut went into overdrive.

Still, can be a massive distraction from your own goals.

Potentially, but I could also see it as a huge motivator that will get me further up the dread ladder. I've been getting increasingly jaded since unplugging and more and more focused on ultimately being able to pull the attraction of other women.

Women don't branch swing that see the branch is a lower rung. Especially an old branch.

I would have been in dangerous territory at the time. I wouldn't say he is a lower rung. In terms of body, I'd be the lower rung by far. And I have the LTR boredom/fatigue disadvantage. That's what sucks about unplugging. You have to become aware of these realities. And they didn't date for long, and it was a long, long time ago, so he has the new(ish)/exciting advantage. Now granted, this conversation happened 2-3 months before I unplugged and really started improving myself, and I knocked her up since then, so circumstances have changed. I'm not currently in as dangerous territory as I was.

[–]rocknrollchuck1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This conversation happened several months ago. I wasn't lifting, I wasn't really losing weight, I was an emotional basket case, I was unpleasant and not fun.

Have you seen ANY other suspicious things since this incident 2-3 months ago?

If you have, I would be suspicious.

If not, then I would say that your efforts are starting to pay off a little, and MAYBE that's why there's been nothing else since then.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Have you seen ANY other suspicious things since this incident 2-3 months ago?

It was about 6 months ago. It was 2-3 months pre-unplugging when I realized how massively unattractive I was being all the time, and that was 3 months ago. Since then, I've been a lot more pleasant and fun to be around. They've been in touch since then, as recently as within the past month, though there was barely anything to the conversation (that I know of).

[–]simbarlionRed Beret4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I understand what you are feeling but you are so far away from needing to worry at this point, especially if this is her only 'offence'. Your current position is that you know you have a good looking desirable wife, who aside from allowing a line to be towed has been respectful to you in a conversation that she did not expect you to find.

kind of turning him down, KIND OF, but not telling him to fuck off

They all do this because they love the attention. Girls love having drinks bought for them, its not a sign they are into the guy. She is probably telling her girlfriends how her ex is still in love with her and possibly even laughing (and feeling special about it).

it may just be the tip of the iceberg.

As u/cholomite said you will never know anyway, don't waste your energy on this.

She is pretty open with her phone, probably because she thinks she is doing enough to hide shit like this.

This is a low confidence mans paranoia

Sure keep tabs on the conversations but be pleased with yourself she is desirable, and leave this guy in orbiter category until you have more evidence.

her family would crucify her if she did something like that

Seriously, re-read your post as if it is from someone else and you will see how low concern it really is. As long as she is not initiating contact, she is just being polite by all chances.

It was suggested here that you track signs of loyalty, not infidelity. Otherwise it is Trust but Verify

And use it as motivation to keep progressing.

EDIT: all care no responsibility.

[–]sh0ckley1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

They all do this

Yup.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I agree. A minor offense. But there are things that stick out. She sent him a heart emoji. She told him to let her know when she is in town. She put up a pretty weak token "I'm married" defense. He just didn't push hard after that. There were hints of previous conversations.

I see your point about attention. And I totally get that this could have been what that was all about. But her behavior is suspicious. She clears her internet history, she clears her message inboxes, she was hiding this conversation before it popped back into her inbox, she uses shit like Snapchat, she is up to all hours of the night on her phone. There is no way for me to keep tabs without installing software.

Most important thing is to use this as motivation to keep progressing, and to help kill the oneitis. That goes without saying.

[–]simbarlionRed Beret2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

She sent him a heart emoji.

not great i agree

She told him to let her know when she is in town.

could go either way

She put up a pretty weak token "I'm married" defense. He just didn't push hard after that.

reeks of orbiter

She clears her internet history, she clears her message inboxes, she was hiding this conversation before it popped back into her inbox

This is a red flag

I'll be honest with you a lot of us have been there before and your hamster is going nuts over this. If it has / will happen, there is nothing you can do. This process is smashing up your oneitis, at least be pleased about this.

I dont know anything about your history, but all of what you have said is plausibly deniable, even the heart emoji. She might clear her inbox to get rid of what he sends her. You are going to melt down if you keep playing the what if scenarios.

To me, this reeks of a bored wife enjoying some attention / validation. You said all that shit about her families views and you being a happy family. Calm the fuck down, Trust but verify, keep tabs on what she is up to.

No offense to the others here but a lot of advice can be worst case, we don't know your background. Hows the sex life etc?

Every time you lift or go boxing, picture the worst and fucking hammer the bar / bag. And make yourself desirable.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This process is smashing up your oneitis, at least be pleased about this.

This took her down a few pegs in my eyes and has made me realize how badly I need to start this process, now.

Hows the sex life etc?

Good. I want it to be great but good. Around the time this exchange would have happened, 6 months ago, we were down to twice a week, covert contract sex. Since unplugging, it's 3-4 times a week, usually 4. The equivalent of starfish in different positions, but there have been tiny signs of life as I've progressed over the past 3 months. The relationship is very good. We get along very well together and compliment each other well. And the relationship has been even better since I unplugged.

Every time you lift or go boxing, picture the worst and fucking hammer the bar / bag. And make yourself desirable.

This. I lost 4 pounds in the past 2 days. Half I'm sure is water weight but I ate next to nothing and burned probably 5,000 calories both days I was so pissed off. It's a great motivator.

[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Good job keeping cool. It's not necessarily bad to call her out. Don't be so dogmatic that you stop being human. Just wait a while and keep being the happy go lucky guy you are and don't be butthurt about it. As far as she knows, you've known for months. Hamster will go into overdrive when she learns that you have known for a long time. Why didn't he get mad? Does he not want me anymore? How long has he known? What's he doing? Is he texting other girls? You gotta be attractive to her for this to be effective though.
 
All I'm saying is, I'm not into letting girls off the hook because they are just following their biological imperative or whatever. They have the ability to make choices. Don't underestimate your role; improve yourself, take ownership of your flaws and all. Very important. However, she doesn't get a pass. Only you know where you are on your journey and whether you can confront her, maintain frame, and handle it like an attractive man with options.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Only you know where you are on your journey and whether you can confront her, maintain frame, and handle it like an attractive man with options.

I'm not there yet.

I love the idea of waiting. It gives me the option of letting this go which might be the best option. And if I do reveal that I know she's been having flirty conversations with ex-boyfriends a month from now, or a few months from now, it would leave her in doubt of how long I've known, and what exactly I know, and it would get her hamster going as you point out.

[–]UEMcGillI am become McGill, Destroyer of Blue Pill1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Set all this shit aside. Women be women, AWALT, OpSec, etc.; all of it.

What the fuck do you want? You've been posting for 2 months. It takes awhile to get your shit together. How much would you lose in divorce? How hard would it be to get 50/50? What path would your life take if the marriage collapse suddenly right now.

Every man needs to know what would happen. I have a divorce agreement in my electronic desk drawer. I had it drawn up several years ago but I keep it there as a reminder of just what the cost is. I keep myself fit and when the baseball moms ask and flirt with me about how maybe I could find a little extra time to tutor little Johnny-strikeout, I'm reminded of just how easy it is to find another woman. I go on job interviews 2-3 times a year, just so I know what my market value is. Everything I do informs me what my options are, should the shit hit the fan. I do all this so I have a know my options, because when you have options it's easy to the right thing.

All this shit about OpSec and lifting doesn't do you any good until you decide. What options do you have? What the fuck do you want out of life, how does she fit in it, and how are you going to make it happen? Oneitis comes from not knowing you have options.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

What path would your life take if the marriage collapse suddenly right now.

I've thought about this a lot. Fast forward 12 months. That's how long it will take me to be below 15% body fat. Let's operate under the assumption that she either cheated on me or for whatever reason decided she didn't want to be with me anymore. She's a SAHM with no career prospects and we'll have 4 young kids together. I'll get the kids on weekends. Sucks for the kids. I'll have to get a crappy apartment, and she'll have to move out of the house since she won't be able to keep up with the mortgage even with alimony and child support. She needs a man so she'd have a very hard time adjusting. She might move the kids in with her parents. She'll be in her mid- to late-30s saddled with 4 young kids so her dating prospects will be limited. Her family will be furious with her for screwing things up with me but they'll forgive her and start to hate me for not giving her a second chance. I'll be living in my crappy apartment doing what I used to do before we got married - watching movies, playing video games, hiking, backpacking, climbing, enjoying the outdoors. I'll be in great shape and will be working out all the time. I'll spin plates. I'll be broke but happy. But it sucks for the kids. I will struggle with guilt over the kids, and I'll be tempted to give in to her requests to give it a second shot, but there is no going back from the brink, and she would have brought it on herself.

What options do you have?

Right now, none. I'm 30-35% body fat. Making serious progress but still a long way to go. When I'm below 15% body fat, I'll be a funny, smart, social, confident, good-looking guy in his mid-30s in great shape. I'll have options. Right now, I'm a fat, funny, smart, social, kind of confident, not-too-bad-shoulders-up-looking guy in his mid-30s. That doesn't get you a lot of options, or a lot of confidence to get yourself options.

What the fuck do you want out of life, how does she fit in it, and how are you going to make it happen?

I'm getting almost everything that I want out of life right now. I have a great life. I've built a great family. I want my wife to want to fuck the shit out of me. That's why I'm here and that's what I've been working toward. If that doesn't happen, well, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. Our sex life has improved significantly the past 3 months and I can't really say that I couldn't live like this indefinitely, but I know it can be better. If things fell apart, I would be fine. It would be very hard for her, not that I would care because she would have been the cause of it. But it would be the hardest on the kids. I would probably do pretty well on my own but I'd be broke as shit, and I always feel remorse for the life the kids could have had if she hadn't ruined it.

[–]Bedtimeshine1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Don't have a conversation about it. Confront her from a place of strength. "Erase your profiles and delete all those apps and this is the last time i will ever talk with you about another man. Period."

[–]tacko2760 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

I was in your boat not too long ago. Wife has a long history of doing this shit. I have a looooog history of snooping in her phone like a beta bitch. In fact if you are looking for a play book on how to gratuitously miss use red pill knowledge and completely half ass this shit read my posts. But the truth is if you read the side bar and get your shit together, your relationship will improve. Your wife like all women wants to be led. Just not by some drunk useless man child of a captain. in short -She has orbiters, and always will. AWALT she needs validation. Worrying about them is a wast of fucking time. Just worry about being your best self. - side bar lift side bar lift -blue pill professors pod casts are a good place to start

Read the side bar lift like mo fo. and for fuck sake lift

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

The more I think about it, the more I realize this is the only thing that matters - self-improvement.

[–]tacko2760 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

That's all you can control. be your best self, own your shit, lead with competence and confidence and what happens happens That's where I'm at. Just trying to lead and not be a dumb ass. she will always have orbiters. Fuck em just be better then they are

[–]anotherswingingdick1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

That's all you can control

he can certainly control, who is allowed to sleep with him and spend his money.

[–]tacko2760 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Solid point

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

AWALT. Read the Key Logger. Understand that over 50% of married women admit they have a backup husband waiting in the wings.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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