TheRedArchive

~ archived since 2018 ~

6

Anger broke my frame. (self.askMRP)

submitted by The_Big_Mic

So, longish story short, I was angry with the wife and walked away without saying anything. Instead of ignoring her phone calls afterwards, I answered and once she started with her shitty attitude, I told her she could either talk to me with the respect that I have earned or we wouldn't talk at all and began to yell at her for her fuck up. The anger for her fuck up was justified, but the yelling caused me to lose my frame to strong emotion. Can someone help me to the best way back to where I need to be? Frame wise and whatever else you can think of I might need to hear.

I'm still working through the sidebar reading. I've finished NMMNG, but that was long before I joined MRP. Thanks in advance.

Edit: I think I should clarify, I wasn't shouting during the beginning of the phone call. She started her shitty attitude and I calmly told her that she would either talk to me with the respect I have earned or I wouldn't talk to her at all. She said "OK, I will talk to you right, I do respect you. I'm sorry. But I didn't do anything wrong." It was when she said that she didn't do anything wrong, I began speaking louder and louder until it was more or less yelling. I became more angry the more she defended her actions until she finally admitted she had screwed up and apologised. At that point, I realized that I had lost my frame by letting my anger control me and yelling at my wife. I felt bad afterwards, and told her I would speak to her later. As the night progressed she, began texting me and I texted back, all pleasant. As if nothing had happened. In the morning, (we both work nights) she offered sex. Things were back to normal. But I know I can do better.

Thank you all for your help and words of advice.


[–]Aaren_Augustine14 points15 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Are you lifting? What happens when you fuck up a rep? Wobble on your squat or fuck up your over head press?

You rack the weight, take a step back, consider why YOU failed so that you can iron out your deficiencies.

I don't yell at my weights for the same reason I don't yell at my wife. They are both equally rediculous.

Past that you failed to properly lift your wife.

[–]The_Big_Mic1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Perfect analogy. Thank you!

[–]man_in_the_worldRed Beret4 points5 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

I've finished NMMNG, but that was long before I joined MRP.

Read it again.

talk to me with the respect that I have earned

How did you earn it? Does she agree that you earned it?

Sounds like a covert contract to me. NMMNG.

[–]DonaldBaelish3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

It's like those guys who start using all of the terms discussed around here when they fight with their wives. Like a post the other day where some OP received a hard No and stormed out. The when his wife called him, he answered and told her "Desire can't be negotiated, so instead of being butthurt about it, I decided to go out. I'm just not alpha enough." He should have started reciting the titles of the top posts too.

Some guys just don't get the whole Fight Club analogy. Communication is not the key, so ungraspable.

[–]The_Big_Mic0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I get your meaning. I've only been reading MRP for a few weeks or so. I haven't spoken to her about Fight Club, nor do I intend to. I'm still learning the philosophy of MRP, and had an issue that I figured I could bring to those more knowledgeable than myself for insight. Cheers, brother.

[–]DonaldBaelish1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You have just began your journey. At least you are walking your own path. So many people come here clueless and not knowing how to do basic things , just because they are afraid to fail. Afraid to lose frame. Afraid to decide whether to agree and amplify or STFU. Afraid to initiate. Afraid of their wives.

You fell. You will rise.

[–]gettingmymojobackRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I started making progress once I realized that my own ego was the reason for holding onto all those fears. Once you can kill the ego, the fears go away.

Once you're no longer afraid, all the anger goes away as well. Why get angry if your no longer afraid to fail, afraid of losing frame, afraid of initiating, afraid of angering your wife?

I've realized that almost all of my past emotional outbursts, angry rages, jealousies, and insecurities were all ultimately cause by the same thing....fear.

Kill the ego, kill the fear and you'll have far less reasons to anger.

[–]The_Big_Mic0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

She agrees that I earned it, at least by her own admission for whatever that's worth. It achieved the desired effect, by stopping the bitching and disrespectful attitude. However, raising my voice is what I feel like broke my frame. I said exactly what I meant, but loudly. I think I would've been better off had I not been loud. If for nothing else than to help to show OI. I'm new to MRP and still working through the reading and working on learning the philosophy. I thought this would be a good learning opportunity to bring to those wiser than me.

Certainly will read NMMNG again. There could be covert contracts still going on, good point and thank you for bringing that to my attention. Still working on it this all, but can confidently say that everything clicks after reading MRP. It's nice to have structure and reference for all the things I've known, but didn't know how to emote. I'm happy to be on this journey. Thanks again for your words of wisdom.

[–]InvincibleKraken1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

She may have been surprised, or even startled, by your outburst. Make sure, if you believe she agrees you earned it, that her agreement is derived from your leadership (in spite of this instance) and not derived from fear.

[–]The_Big_Mic1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Good point, thank you. I believe it is derived from leadership, but I will make sure that it isn't from fear. I typically don't yell, even before MRP. In this instance, I want to know what the MRP response to my behavior is. I'm getting great feedback, like this. Thanks again!

[–]mtdog1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Learning not to shout was tough for me as well.

The other guys are right -- shouting is usually from a place of fear, not anger.

The last time my wife pissed me off, I STFU for about 20 seconds. Then I calmly explained the way things were and then shut up again. About 5 minutes later, she apologized, agreed and we went on and had a great day.

I would own it, apologize for shouting if you think it is warranted and start fresh tomorrow.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (20 children) | Copy Link

A. Why are you so angry?

B. Why do you think you deserve respect?

[–]The_Big_Mic0 points1 point  (19 children) | Copy Link

Answer A. She did something we both agreed she wouldn't do and failed to tell me about it. I found out after the fact.

Answer B. I have been, IMHO, a good leader for her and my family. I have been a good father, and a good husband for the most part. While I don't consider myself a "Natural Red Pill" I have always had more RP tendencies than BP. I have done my best to earn respect and I feel that I have. Sorry, I'm not sure how to better describe it than that.

I am at MRP because I know I can improve in all aspects. I have thought long and hard about it and done my best to remove ego from my answer. I believe my statement, but am willing to look at things from a different perspective. Hence posting my issue here amongst other and better versed males in the MRP. I appreciate all the feedback I'm getting. Very insightful and thought provoking stuff.

[–]weakandsensitive1 point2 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

I have been, IMHO, a good leader for her and my family. I have been a good father, and a good husband for the most part

I challenge you to find me anyone person who looks at themselves in a negative light. Literally nobody thinks they're worse than average and by definition 50% of people are. Your own judgment of yourself don't lend you any reason to think you deserve respect. It's a joke that you think by meeting the bare requirement of being a husband and father, you somehow deserve anything.

told her she could either talk to me with the respect that I have earned or we wouldn't talk at all and began to yell at her for her fuck up

  1. Demanding unearned respect.
  2. Lack of self control.

Oh, look, you've just demonstrated that you're a shitty leader. I'd imagine you're a shitty father too.

[–]The_Big_Mic-1 points0 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

I'm not sure how to respond to your comment. I was asked a question about what I feel I did to earn respect. Without going into a diatribe about all of the aspects that I have done that I believe qualifies a person to be respected, I simply did my best to answer the question with as little ego involved as possible from the position I am currently in. Again, to reiterate, I'm just beginning to learn the concepts of MRP. Judge me as harshly as is necessary for my actions, I hold myself and nobody else responsible for them. However, when the answer that you have provided seems to be driven by hostility and ego, I have a difficult time finding much worth in it. I lost frame, something that all of us have done. Otherwise I doubt we would be here. Also, with the lack of respect you show, I'd doubt that any advice you have about respect would be worth the keystrokes you made typing it. Lastly, I see little in the way of self-control from you, in as much as you've resulted to insults as opposed to any real or meaningful comment. In any regard, I appreciate the fact that you spent any amount of time in a response and I will take it as a misguided attempt at constructive criticism. Cheers to you, chap.

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

What he is saying is that by you having to state you were naturally RP you aren't.

A lot of new guys come here claiming they were once ALpha supreme. Yeah...no. Sorry. It's rare and even if you were once it means you fell a lot further then you think.

IN short. Drop the ego. Get to work.

[–]The_Big_Mic0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I understand. I was saying that I don't consider myself natural RP. I just had more RP tendencies, at least in my mind. I'm trying to evaluate this all with as little ego as I can, but understand that I may not be seeing it and still require work. Thank you.

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

in my mind.

.

little ego

Think about it.

[–]weakandsensitive1 point2 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

when the answer that you have provided seems to be driven by hostility and ego

it's a good thing you don't know jack shit then isn't it. too bad you can't take a step back to separate message from delivery. i could fluff the entire delivery and the message wouldn't change at all.

most men who post here have weak fragile egos that can't filter negative words from negative criticism so they conflate the two. it's the failure of these men who'd rather feel than see.

the really sad thing is that anyone who's been around and actually working on stuff will hear the message loud and clear, as /u/reddjive points out below as well as /u/UEMcGill points out further below. no one is going to hand hold you as you try to wade through your own bullshit either.

that's okay though. my response wasn't for you, it was for everyone else reading.

all i figured you'd get out of it was getting defensive and butthurt for being told that you don't deserve any respect and that you're a shitty leader. and look at where we are.

i'll help you out though, we'll see how it goes. note how the first part of my response to you flows directly into the second and then evaluate your response to me thinking specifically about the first part of my response.

you're ego invested in not seeing yourself as a failure while every single other poster here can see your failings clearly and visibly. and you've done a great job demonstrating it in your response - wherein your DEER, get defensive, and start trying to deride the source of the criticism. it's a weak, but incredibly common, mentality.

p.s. i'd say you're lucky i've been feeling charitable this week on MRP. usually, i'd just ignore it, let you flounder, give no more insight, and let everyone else except you see what's going on while your rationalization hamster is running around in circles.

i doubt you'll get any solid answers from people who have them (flaired users for the most part) because it's pretty obvious you haven't put in the work. that work is getting through chunks of the sidebar and implementing things in life.

we're here to laugh at you while you try to persevere. you're here to take ownership for making yourself better. it makes no difference to our lives whether you float or flounder. hedging your successes on the charity and help of others is a bad idea. you'll get it sometimes for sure - but there's no reason to do depend on it.

so the two things you need to take away are 1) get rid of this notion you deserve anything and 2) you are and you have been a shitty leader. and if you can't do that, well you're just gonna be in the same position you are in now, so no great loss.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

OP, based on what you wrote, I really would not be so charitable. Pay attention, you are getting the best advice I've seen in a while for a noob, and from multiple sources.

I'm betting you will delete your account.

[–]The_Big_Mic0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Agreed, noob for sure. I'm appreciative of all the advice offered here.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

As they say in reform school, the beatings will continue until you improve. Embrace it.

[–]The_Big_Mic0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Right on, lol

[–]The_Big_Mic0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

I can certainly see you point here. For me, this comment better illustrates your view. I did take your comment as a hostile remark, this being the internet and all. Take that as you will. I'll admit that my ego must've take a shot, especially at the comment of being a shitty father. I see how you could come to that conclusion, but if there is one thing that I'm proud of, it's the effort that I put into being a father. The rest of my shit might be so far beyond fucked up that I can't see past my own mistakes. A case of "not knowing what I don't know." And I can acknowledge that those mistakes may bleed over into other aspects of my life, such as fatherhood. But, and since there's nobody here that can speak on my behalf, I have to speak for myself. Which undeniably is tainted with ego. I try to remove that as best as I can, but as you've said, and correctly so, I flounder. Which is why I came seeking advice at the best place that I could figure. I came here to seek advice for someone that has not been long into MRP, and knew that I've read some great advice for others on AskMRP. DEERing and defensive and all that are the things that I am attempting to overcome. Once again, I do appreciate you comment and your advice, just as with the other comment. I just didn't "get it", and it's likely due to ego as you pointed out. Thank you and cheers.

[–]weakandsensitive1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Step 1. Assume you suck at everything. You suck at being a father. You suck at being attractive. You suck at being a husband. Because we all know from the actions you're describing that no one views you as positively as you deserve. Let's assume they are correct. Now, given that assumption, figure out how you fix your own failures. If you can't own up all of your flaws and all of your failures, you're never ever going to fix yourself. The reason to fix yourself is to know that you are proud of the work you've put in so that YOU are a better person irrespective of anyone else.

If you suck at being a father, if you suck at being a leader, if you suck at being attractive, what to do now?

and since there's nobody here that can speak on my behalf, I have to speak for myself.

What? Why? Why do you give a fuck what some asshole on the internet thinks? Why do you feel so insecure that you have to defend yourself from other people's bullshit? If you do it with me, imagine how much more you're doing this with your wife - people who actually impact your ego.

Own your shit. Get comfortable in your own security and vision (this will be a 6month+ process, probably more like 12+ months starting with lifting heavy), and start unfucking your mindset. Develop your MAP. Actively read the sidebar and put in the work.

I'll give you a hint - I'm caustic because it causes people to get butthurt and defensive. The consequence of this is that frail ego'd individuals launch all sorts of accusations at me. To me, this is the funniest shit - as if some text from some random retard who I don't know, who I don't care about is going to bother me. Like, I imagine them giving themselves a pat on the back for thinking they came up with a poignant insult. El Oh El. The only shit that'll affect you, is the shit that you let affect you.

You need a plan, and with that plan you need to start developing a frame.

[–]The_Big_Mic0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

While not denying what you've seen through my comments, I'm trying to come here and put all my shit out there for those who are willing and helpful enough to "diagnose" me. I imagine few people like the prognosis, but it's probably accurate more often than not. That being said, I fully understand what you're saying. Thanks once again, for taking the time. I know that what I'm about to say is said a lot, but I am taking this and weaving all the knowledge I can into fixing myself. I know my problems are my own. I'm excited to take this on. It's been too long coming. You're "caustic" attitude could very well have been the turning point, so thanks for putting up with my bitchy BP self to educate me. Without sucking your dick too much, I appreciate it.

[–]weakandsensitive1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

if you're really interested in putting in the work, get started with the weekly own your shit as soon as you can - including this week. that's where all the people doing real work and making real progress help/hang out.

you'd be surprised how caustic, mean words help filter fragile guys from people who are capable of succeeding. guys who can put aside the ego to see the message will get it. guys who need gentle words and coddling are bound to fail. if a guy needs gentle words on the internet, imagine how much worse he is at home, and how weak that makes him look to the people in his life.

i think even when you were responding butthurt, you tried hard to be palatable and tried to put aside the ego. i mean, you didn't completely succeed - but I think you tried.

Oh! And stop listening to what she says and pay attention to what she DOES. The root of your problem is listening to what she says instead of listening to her actions. She say she respects and appreciates what you do, her actions don't match up - and she's probably justified in her actions too because of your lack of quality leadership.

[–]The_Big_Mic0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Own Your Shit... See me over there.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Why don't you consider yourself to be a man who has 100% reclaimed his masculinity?

[–]The_Big_Mic0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's a question that I don't believe I've considered before. Again, things like the incident I've posted about show me that I can improve myself, and I've no doubt that many other areas in my life can be improved upon. If not all of them. I do feel as if I have a healthy grasp of my masculinity, but again, I'm only a few weeks in to MRP concepts, so perhaps there's an element to your questions that I'm missing because of my lack of context.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Don't lose your shit again. That really ups the ante in terms of respect

Remain the upbeat dude at all times and do not visit the yelling episode

Read NMMNG, Pook and WISNIFG lift and get off the Shit food of night workers.

Remain in frame by thinking positive in all interactions, especially when her attitude goes south. You will be shocked if where this takes you

[–]The_Big_Mic0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Agreed. Working throughbthe reading and different posts in the side bar. Still have a way to go, but certainly am receiving more than my fair share of advice here. Thanks.

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Reading through the comments I can see your number one problem is you.

Your ego gets in your way. You need to deal with this.

She didn't break your frame you did. And you didn't break it you legitimately dropped it and walked out of it. What makes it even more surprising is that you did it willingly and of your own decision.

Actually....most men do. Men have a tremendous capacity to compartmentalize thought and emotion. It allows us to work and get things done. I have mentioned before that men must allow emotion to happen but not happen to them. You felt angry at what she did...ok I guess I can understand that I am not going to judge that, but then what you did is allowed that feeling to overcome you.

You allowed yourself not only to feel angry but to become angry. This is where you allowed your ego to take over. "How dare she?" "She did this" "She did that".

Then you had to go on and demand she respect you. Demand she treat you right.

That right there tells me you're more in the BP depths then you admit AND in her frame. Maybe you're starting to reestablish yours. YOu judge, but what it tells me is that you are seeking validation again.

I am a man. Respect me.

YOu should have shown her. Through that reminded her. You are the one in control and unmoved by whatever happened. You SHOW that you have been here before, seen it before, and well frankly it's all bullshit.

Sure you admit to getting angry but you don't admit to why, and she had nothing to do with it. You allowed because you felt justified in it. Your ego right there pushing you along the way.

In the morning she offered sex. Awwww how sweet.

How about next time she does something that is out of established boundaries you point it out. She flies off the handle.

You smirk, cock an eyebrow, spank her ass. Whisper nicely.

"Let's not do it again."

Then fuck her in half later that night.

[–]The_Big_Mic0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Right, ego. I'm working on it and continuing to do so. I know I need to shrink my ego, because it has definitely been a weak spot for me. I guess it just takes someone pointing it out sometimes so you can see it. Like "can't see the forest for the trees". Appreciated, friend.

[–]The_Big_Mic0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Reading through you comment a few more times, you have e really shed some light on some my biggest issues. I have always been BP in that emotions like fear and anger can get the better of me and that ego is the driving factor. Your comment is spot on. Thank you.

[–]atlhartRed Beret1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Your wife has and always will talk to you and treat you with exactly the respect you have earned. Acta, non verba.

If you have to tell your wife to treat/talk to you with a certain level of respect, it's because you haven't actually earned it.

Lift. Read. STFU.

[–]The_Big_Mic0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I see your point, as well as the points made by others. Thank you for taking a moment.

[–]weakandsensitive4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

So, longish answer short, you're a faggot.

[–]The_Big_Mic1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Cheers

[–]UEMcGillI am become McGill, Destroyer of Blue Pill4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

It's a short answer but he's right. You get mad and scream like Cartman, "respect my authority!" and then she calls you and pulls you out of frame in a moment.

"I'm not going to talk to you unless you're civil"

Harpy, nag, harpy....

Click.

That's how you set boundaries.

Anger is fine. Sometimes it can be used with precision. Don't be afraid of your emotions, anger is part of that.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes

Respect me

[–]midlifedick0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Occasional justified anger is a nice exciting roller coaster and a good way to show you are human. Maybe even a protector. Not bot reading strange internets.

Habitual outbursts, butt hurt, passive aggressive comments, scarcasm is a problem. A sign of weakness, helplessness and fear.

Tl:dr. It's not always bad to lose your temper, unless you're always losing your temper.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I used to lose frame and get angry the whole time and she would get this self-satisfied smirk on her face

Why? She knew I'd have to come crawling back and apologize if I wanted sex

What changed? Now I STFU. (It gets easier.)

I also get a piece of paper out in front of her when we have our "talks" which I label "facts".

I then write down her crazy accusations as she lectures me so I can address them calmly with facts. It helps keep me calm. I tell her I need to write things down to process what she's saying

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

What changed? Now I STFU. (It gets easier.) I also get a piece of paper out in front of her when we have our "talks" which I label "facts". I then write down her crazy accusations as she lectures me so I can address them calmly with facts. It helps keep me calm. I tell her I need to write things down to process what she's saying

Whoa whoa whoa.

No. YOu don't sit and have deliberate conversations.

So do you sit and logically discuss why you want to fuck as well?

Women don't say what they mean. You don't listen to thier words you watch thier actions. Women are covert communicators.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No no I don't have deliberate conversations! I mean when she forces me to have what she calls talks. When there is no way I can avoid it

And no I never ever discuss sex with her. Fuck that

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

© TheRedArchive 2024. All rights reserved.
created by /u/dream-hunter