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How to distinguish soft and hard no? What is caveman sex? (self.askMRP)

submitted by IASGame

It seems to be standard advice to initiate frequently and relent only with a hard no. I'm getting a lot of nos, but I don't know very well when it is ASD / LMR and I'm supposed to keep going (and probably get starfish) or if it is a hard no and I should just go sleep.

I also don't really know explicitly what is meant by caveman sex (BPP uses the expression a lot as something to do when getting starfish etc.).


[–]SepeanRed Beret 2 points3 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

ASD is mostly irrelevant with your wife. Just don't high five your mates and tell them you got pussy and you should be in the clear.

Soft nos are stuff like "not right now", "I'm not in the mood", "we're not having sex". A hard no is something like "stop!" or "no!".

Caveman sex is you just want pussy and you're getting it and you like it. You don't pay attention to what she wants or if she likes it, you just manhandle her around, and pound her pussy hard. Google Foxy Di First Anal Quest, that guy has the caveman attitude down to a t (just pound harder since you're doing it in her pussy).

[–]IASGame[S] 0 points1 point  (10 children) | Copy Link

What if I get many "soft" nos in a row (my wife is not very assertive)? Even though they may be "soft", it is hard for me to keep going through a barrage of those. Particularly with this concept from Archwinger: https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/3fpefe/every_unhappy_wife_is_a_rape_victim/

BPP suggests trying to make starfish into quality sex in a few posts, but there are also quality posts that make me wonder if I should myself stop if I'm just getting starfish sex. If I'm only getting that through a barrage of soft nos it is even worse.

Speaking of which, regarding caveman, recently when getting starfish I tried to "pound her" she complains I'm hurting her (which could be a shit test, but I think is actually true).

Sometimes I wish I had a notch count higher than 1, I feel the lack of past experience is limiting my improvement.

[–]livelikealesbianWoman/lesbian 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I would recommend trying the hard pounding intially during ovulation. Are you tracking her period? I am a woman and different kinds of sex feel better or worse depending on hormones, cycle, and level of arousal. If you aren't wet enough the friction creates micro tears that feel like tiny internal pinches or paper cuts. The vagina also expands with arousal as well as the cervix moving up and down depending on where you are in your cycle. When the cervix is low it's easier to hit or bruise and it produces instant nausea and cramps-not sexy. During ovulation however, the vagina is much more pounding friendly. I don't really enjoy most forms of penetration but during ovulation even I wanna get fucked hard. Do not push through legitimate cries of pain unless you want your tender bits to also get a swift kick. If however, she's just being shit testing and nagging about everything you are doing then that's different.

[–]SepeanRed Beret -3 points-2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

What if I get many "soft" nos in a row (my wife is not very assertive)? Even though they may be "soft", it is hard for me to keep going through a barrage of those.

I had huge rejection issues and I can totally relate to how there's a limit to how much you can take. I'll definitely suggest to quit while you're head; you have to remain able to either a) fuck her properly or b) disengange and go do something worthwhile with an IDGAF attitude (for me, watching comedies and laughing really set her off). Do not initiate so long that you break your frame.

BPP suggests trying to make starfish into quality sex in a few posts, but there are also quality posts that make me wonder if I should myself stop if I'm just getting starfish sex. If I'm only getting that through a barrage of soft nos it is even worse.

There are phases to this. First you have to get the sex rolling and the attraction back and that means pushing through the LMR and accepting with the starfish. Later on, you need to work on improving the quality, but you need better SMV for that.

Speaking of which, regarding caveman, recently when getting starfish I tried to "pound her" she complains I'm hurting her (which could be a shit test, but I think is actually true).

So what if it is? You never hurt? How does it feel dead lifting? Heck, licking pussy until your muscles burn, doesn't that hurt?

And remember, alphas are dominant. They don't care. They're ok that they step on some toes. They do it in social gatherings, they do it in the sack; they get their way and don't give a fuck about anything else.

She's attracted to alphas. Fucking her like you're afraid of hurting is a turn off; fucking her with abandon is sexy.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I don't think it's good advice to just not care if she's in pain...

Try and figure that out.

[–]SepeanRed Beret -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

There's degrees to it of course, but anything bad she'll put a stop to it and not just offer token resistance.

But stuff like pounding her, smacking her butt, anal, it's ok that it hurts a bit.

[–]lazysnakes 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

So what if it is? You never hurt? How does it feel dead lifting? Heck, licking pussy until your muscles burn, doesn't that hurt?

And remember, alphas are dominant. They don't care. They're ok that they step on some toes. They do it in social gatherings, they do it in the sack; they get their way and don't give a fuck about anything else.

She's attracted to alphas.

I think this is misleading and very counterproductive advice. If it is the pain I think she means, it is nothing to do with muscular pain, it is internal physical pain and associated emotional distress. Like a skewer to your most vulnerable private parts and yes, as another poster noted, leaves you feeling uncomfortably and forcibly exposed somewhat like you may have been raped. Ploughing through that without improving other aspects of their dynamic is not going to improve their sex life. Most likely she will become more tense due to having previous experience of it hurting.

As you well know, the reason why it doesn't hurt with an alpha is not because he doesn't give a fuck it's because he is an alpha, it is the whole deal, the energy of that man will have your knickers soaked from across the room and you just melt into bed with him, everything is relaxed because you feel completely enclosed in the space that he controls (free to get out of your mind and into your body) and it does not hurt.

You can't fake being an alpha by being a dickhead, especially not with your wife. There are two solutions to the problem in this thread - either the OP becomes more alpha or his wife submits to him voluntarily.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

A little KY solves the "pain." The wife's loss of attraction is the problem.

[–]lazysnakes 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

KY definitely helps with the initial pain if you haven't warmed up much. I'm not sure this is a KY issue though:

when ... I tried to "pound her" she complains I'm hurting her

I think this is a different discomfort. Sounds to me like he is banging into her cervix or something - probably should try changing position so it is not so deep. Maybe when he has increased his SMV relative to her it will no longer be a problem?

This used to happen with my husband before I found the redpill and understood the psychology of it all and took conscious steps to submit to him. It doesn't hurt anymore.

The mental and the physical are interlinked.

Assuming she's not going to submit voluntarily, he has to take charge and encourage her to relax. Verbally, and by touching her all over, soft and hard touching. When you're not relaxed it feels mighty weird. Just slowing down for a bit so she can engage with the feeling then working back up to it should help.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Pain like this is also indicative of cervical dysplasia or endometriosis and if that is the case she needs to be checked ASAP.

Also, if that is the problem OP should read up on Kino, escalation, and sensual massage.

This used to happen with my husband before I found the redpill and understood the psychology of it all and took conscious steps to submit to him. It doesn't hurt anymore.

Sure is neat how the genders work when they are operating according to their true nature- or as "designed" if you prefer.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

All women say "no" often. They are the guardians of reproduction and our species is stronger for womens general resistance to any and all male advances. What if she gets pregnant with some betas sperm? Disaster!

Knowing that women have a built-in defense mechanism should take the sting out of rejection. Its not personal, its her throwing up an obstacle that a weak man cant climb for the good of humanity.

If you read Chad Thunndercocks texts you will see the same dynamic at play:

Chad: ok see u @ 9

Her: ok, but we totally arent having sex!

The difference is that Chad knows women say all kinds of bullshit. He pays it no mind and then has a threesome with her and her sister.

[–]MRPguy 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Her: ok, but we totally arent having sex!

Ha! That means she is 100% having sex, but we all knew that. They have to verbalize that statement so their hamster will have evidence to tell them they aren't sluts. After sex she can think "I told him I wouldn't," and that means she isn't a slut.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

It means all that and also

"It wasn't my fault"

[–]MRPguy 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes!

[–]Quarter_Century_Club 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The difference is that Chad knows women say all kinds of bullshit. He pays it no mind and then has a threesome with her and her sister.

...and before that they shared a $2 box of hot pockets. (can't find the reference post)

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

There's more than one way to skin a cat. You can go full caveman as described by /u/Sepean, which has worked very well for him and fits with his likes/dislikes in the bedroom, but in your specific case you should read through the Sex God Method and think about what you like and need in bed.
 
SGM talks about Dominance, Emotion, Variety, Immersion. It talks about focusing on your own enjoyment, and giving your partner pleasure and orgasm on your own terms. Don't neglect her, just fuck her right.
 
Emotion
If it's all about the physical sensations, then she's better off with a vibrator. Emotions are what make sex so satisfying. Emotions are why masturbation, oral and manual sex don't give either of you that deep sense of satisfaction.
 
Variety
Instead of playing the same song in Pussy Guitar Hero every time. It's time for sex. Okay, ready, 1, 2, 3, kiss, rub back, rub butt, rub front, kiss neck, go down on her until orgasm, win at sex! Two orgasms, high score!
Doing the same things every time is boring. You need some degree of dominance to avoid that.
 
Immersion
Extraneous thoughts like whatever she was doing in the kitchen last night (your other post) will kill the experience. You were immersed in a sexual encounter because you woke up from a sex dream. She was having a dream about whatever was in the kitchen.
 
Dominance
The most important. Why? You can't maintain EVI without the D This is caveman sex - sex on your terms. Take pleasure in it. Give pleasure when it suits you.
Calling the shots also allows you to maintain control over your orgasm, so you can prolong the experience if desired.
 
Daniel Rose says that you need incorporation and balance of all four components. He's right. The specific balance depends on the couple's preferences, the phase in her cycle, and a host of other factors, but if you neglect one then sex will suck.
 
Last night you were missing Dominance because you didn't pass the LMR shit tests. You were missing Emotion the second time, and maybe the first. You were missing Variety because what you describe is a standard, boring, in-bed, after all the chores are done, massage-then-fuck sequence. You were missing Immersion because you didn't pass the LMR shit tests. I don't know if you were using kino and playing with her earlier in the day, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here.
 
Edit:
Distinguishing hard and soft no isn't always straightforward. "No" means no. If she's puking and has a fever, any answer probably means no. Anything vague that seems like a poor reason can be treated as LMR until she gives a more clear "no." Kids might hear, gassy, have to get up early, you didn't start the dishwasher, lights are on/off, whatever.
 
LMR is anti-slut defence as described in TRP, but there are many other reasons for it. She is consciously or unconsciously trying to decide if sex with you is worth it. Are you worthy of her eggs?
 
Shit tests let her decide if you should be allowed to approach. LMR lets her decide if you should be allowed to go all the way. A hard "no" means no. Body language, context, and the words all matter to some extent, but words are the least important of the three. Use your judgment.

[–]SepeanRed Beret 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Just to clarify, I don't encourage full caveman all the time. SGM is the way to go.

Caveman is for when she's reluctant, giving starfish sex, or been misbehaving. If she's into it, it is fun flipping her around and getting lots of V, but if she's starfishing it is awkward. And giving too much E when she's not there can easily come off as needy or creepy. So you work with what you got: lots of D and the caveman persona fits great with getting Immersed in fucking a starfish.

Caveman is a tool for a few specific situations, but full and balanced DEVI is the end goal.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

From your previous descriptions, it sounds like you're a bit heavier on the Dominance than some of the guys here, but it's good to know that you're a beast with a soft side.

[–]SepeanRed Beret 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Maybe a bit, but I think it has more to do with the sort of problems guys come here with. People ask questions where the answer is "caveman".

I've also had to deal with a wife with low self esteem and sexual inhibitions, and a girl like that you can't just motivate her to become a sex kitten. She's the sort of person who is very tempted to sabotage her own happiness when stuff gets too important; "better not even apply for that promotion because what if I'm turned down, yeah they won't like me." So scared of trying and failing. Carrots don't work, she needs the stick to leave her comfort zone sometimes.

[–]IASGame[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

My wife is also low self esteem and with sexual inhibitions. Thanks everyone for the good advice.

[–]suddenlytrp 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Good tip on the low self-esteem angle and how that comes in to play. Thanks man.

[–]lazysnakes 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Do you build her up during the day, touch her, check her out, communicate that you find her sexy? And also tell her she's beautiful etc so it's not just 'sex' stuff. Also do you check out other women? Are you confident that you are a sexual being and holding a frame of sexual attractiveness?

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

First if you are getting Starfish then it is not a hard no. My recommendation is to go all out and fuck her like a cave man in that scenario.

Second, how can you not know the difference between "NO!" and "No." This is your wife, right?

A "barrage" of soft no's equals a hard no as best I can determine.

Read up on ASD and LMR. I don't agree with Sepean that these do not apply to your wife. They sure do!

Hint; The LMR strategy is not to continue engaging and getting the soft no's but to disengage and let her come to you.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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