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Theory on Frame vs. Ego (self.askMRP)

submitted by LeonidasMRP

I am 2.5 months into my MRP journey and I am working on defining frame. When I was first studying this concept I was having trouble distinguishing frame from ego. I knew that ego is your sense of self worth. After studying frame I would say that frame is how we interface our ego with reality. A lot of people say we need to kill our ego but I don't think it can be killed. Ego will always be with us, I think it just needs to be reprogrammed. STFU is a way of reprogramming the ego and for us to stop sabotaging our lives while we learn RP.

The problem with the ego is that the default setting for the ego is to be stimulated when our bodies receive pleasure. Unless you are careful your ego will allow you to be under the impression that you are succeeding in life everytime you:

  • eat a cookie

  • look at porn

  • receive praise

  • avoid discomfort

Allowing the ego to operate like this is self destructive. As MRP men we need to reprogram our egos to be stimulated by ourselves because we truly like the person we are or are becoming. We start investing time and energy into ourselves because we believe in ourselves and we want to make ourselves happy. Pretty soon our ego tells us we have value because:

  • you are intelligent

  • you are funny

  • you like how you look in the mirror

  • you proved to yourself you can achieve goals

Being your own source of ego stimulation creates positive feedback loop that results in a strong ego that will not be shaken when someone insults or disagrees with you. Once the ego has been reprogrammed, you can build your frame around that. Your frame is the interface between your ego and reality. If your frame is fun, energetic, positive and strong, like your ego is, then most people will be happy to enter your frame. If they choose not to enter your frame its because they are bitter, boring people and their rejection of your frame will have no impact on you. Don't try and build your frame until you have fixed your ego.

Thoughts?


[–]ReddJiveRed Beret5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Don't confuse ego.

There are two aspects.

One is a person's own sense of self-importance.

Another is the actual psychological construct . The part of the mind that is responsible for reality testing and a sense of personal identity.

The first is can be inflated. The second is essential. Both can be removed but I don't recommend removing the second one.

The first is an obstacle that must be overcome if you have any desire to grow and move on. It's a wall that prevents learning, and an excuse to ignore thoughts worth hearing.

[–]UEMcGillI am become McGill, Destroyer of Blue Pill12 points13 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Frame is pretty simple. It's simply the operational parameter. Is she reacting to you or are you reacting to her.

Ego is your internal self, the reality you present to yourself.

You can have iron frame and still be overly invested in your ego. We've seen those guys who would just burn their life down instead of stepping back and looking at their reality. Rambo is often what happens when guys push frame without reflecting ego.

Or conversely guys who are fully in their wife's frame and fully aware of their ego.

They're different variables in the data set.

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Look. I have had way too much sangria.

Kill your ego means you don't allow your ego to control you, that's all.

It's ok to have a ego. But you can't let it control you.

[–]Vegasman200021 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

"It's simply the operational parameter. Is she reacting to you or are you reacting to her."

I have been trying to understand frame in a simple manner and now I do. Thanks for this.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

burn their life down

Fuck yeah motherfucker.

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

A lot of people say we need to kill our ego but I don't think it can be killed.

You’re being autistic, taking this literally

I get what you’re saying, but I think you’re stretching the term ego a bit much to fit your thesis.

Don’t make it so complex

Frame is simply who you are living and doing things for, and how you view things (from your frame or another person’s frame). Love and do things for yourself and provide leadership. That way you won’t give so many fucks about what your wife and others think because you have your own strong frame. When you give too many fucks what others think, you are operating out of their frame.

Suggested reading: - The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck

[–]Rifleshoot5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Frame is just the projection of your internal perception of the world into external reality. If you truly believe yourself to be a badass alpha dog, then you impose that perception of yourself onto the world. You actually BEHAVE like you believe it. The problem that most men face is that the world pushes back, trying to break your frame and most men’s frame is too weak for that sort of onslaught. In a marriage, it’s your wife that is pushing back against your frame. Her shit tests are her way of doing that. If your frame, being how YOU perceive your marriage to exist, is weak, then she will shatter it. STFU is just useful advice for men who are currently building their frame, which simply isn’t strong enough to resist their wife’s prodding. Once that frame is strong enough, impose it on her and maintain it. She’ll fight at first, but eventually, she will find comfort in the rigid boundaries you have set within it.

[–]Frosteecat4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Frame to me is a reflection of internal strength, resolve and confidence/independence—built stone by stone through goal setting and passing progressively harder self-defined challenges. Then projecting that outwards calmly and consistently.

[–]LeonidasMRP[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think we are saying the same thing, I just had to break it down into smaller bites to digest.

[–]tap09885341 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This stone by stone element cannot be overstated. It is an iterative cycle in which the mind follows the body and the body follows the mind. Every challenge alters you, changes your biochemistry and blood, changes the way you carry yourself and think, and this changes the way others see you, which propagates the feedback loop and iterates another cycle. Tiny micro improvements begetting more micro improvements, until one day you're THAT guy.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The part of the ego needing to be killed is the one that always has to get the last word in.

Stoicism is an excellent conditioner and adlib facilitator to build frame and place the ego that the does the most damage in check.

STFU and don’t go full autist. But do actually dissect each and every interaction of the day while lifting and during down time to decide on whether and how stoicism, stfu, ego and frame extract the results to further your mission in life

[–]Reasonably_Honest2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Do you hang your hat on stupid shit? You know guys that brag? It's really noticable when they brag about dumb shit... that's ego. They find out you know about some subject or another and they've been there, done it better, etc. Ego. Don't be that guy. You don't need people to reassure you of your decisions, these people do. They're weak.

"Back in '82, I could throw a pig skin over them mountains."

[–]IRunYourRiver1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I've heard the ego described as a sort of filter that shunts inputs into conscious vs subconscious bins. It is needed because you can't simultaneously be aware of all input and so you need a way to prioritize the inputs. If you use this definition it sounds a lot like frame. The application of this in a relationship would be if you receive a challenge to your identity and your filter goes "not important, subconscious". I guess what we're trying to do here is willfully alter that filter. My personal belief is that this is possible.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Your frame is dominated by primitive ego instincts? I would read the Stoics, immediately.

[–]amalgamator0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Do you think frame is basically just another word for differentiation as explained by Dr. David Schnarch? Did you ever read Intimacy and Desire?

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think frame is orthogonal to differentiation. You need strong differentiation to have a good frame that is conducive to lots of sexy times. Of course you can choose an undifferentiated frame but that is the source of deadbedrooms.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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