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If she doesn't fuck on the first date, you give her a second chance, but not third? (self.asktrp)

submitted by smgtn

I was just thinking about my stats on this and I'd say second date is when the score usually happens. My reasoning used to be "well if she's back, it's a confirmation she wants it, so it's fair to crank up the pressure". I had it happen on 3rd date a fair number of times too, but would you say it's worth it because "girls are a bit different and move at different speeds", or is it better to just next?

Bonus question. If she says "we can meet, but there's gonna be no sex" (classic bullshit). Do you say "sure, whatever" or let her know that she's getting fucked and to just deal with it? Anything in between?


[–][deleted]  (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–]mickenrorty7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I cap it at two personally.

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Thing is nobody cares what you do personally

More so it’s fucking retarded to say I give her 2-3 dates or what ever. Sometimes I’d next her after the 1. Date if nothing happened. Another time it’s ok if it doesn’t happen after the 3rd date cause situations vary.

You need to realize why the sex doesn’t happen. Is she on her period? Is she maybe actually sick/hurt but still went out with you or is she just making you wait (and as Rollo said it’s never worth waiting)?

People here need to learn to read a situation cause things aren’t black and white. You can’t make a 3/2 or what ever day rule. now don’t say you make them for the case when you think she’s making you wait or shit like that cause if she is making you wait or tries shacking existing sexual tension off to make you wait you can also just end the date and make it easier for yourself.

[–]Spaghetti177634 points35 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Only wait past 3 for a virgin.

[–]smgtn[S] 3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Funny, the 3 virgins I had all went for it on the first date. They all did vodka shots before though, like it's part of the fucking ritual 😆

[–]ahackercalled4chan4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

niiiiiiice

[–]Jaganshi938 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

how do you know if they were virgin? how to tell if they lie?

[–]Spaghetti17761 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Completely ignore what they say and see if there’s blood that isn’t red wings.

[–]kingofclubsmorde7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Learn anatomy.

[–]ZeppKfw108 points109 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

I think what they mean is that if they don't fuck on the first date = not a slut and if they don't fuck on the second date = she sees you as an orbiter and you should bounce.

Oh btw, just don't listen to what they say. You're a man and you do what you wanna do you're not someone's little bitch.

[–]smgtn[S] 14 points15 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I think what they mean is that if they don't fuck on the first date = not sluts and if they don't fuck on the second date = she sees you as an orbiter and you should bounce.

So what you're saying is what I said - "they all move at different speeds"?

Oh btw, just don't listen to what they say. You're a man and you do what you wanna do not someone's little bitch.

I'm guessing this is in regards to the bonus question, meaning just ignore it?

[–]ZeppKfw10 points11 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yeah essentially. I mean the answer ultimately boils down to you. Is it worth your time? What's the context to the situation? Personally, I just move on if I don't get laid or at least a K close the 2nd date. It's up to you.

Yes ignore it but it depends on the context too.

[–]rnsbrum2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Is it ok to not K close in the first date?

[–]smgtn[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes ignore it but it depends on the context too.

Yeah, I usually shut that shit down with something like "I'll have to decide if I wanna fuck you in the first place and if I do - you'll be glad".

[–]Truedemocracy519 points20 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Lmao anyone that says orbiter after 2 dates and no sex is a dumbass

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[–]Truedemocracy51 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

If I say no does that make you my beta orbiter?

[–]ZeppKfw0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Only if you can spell like a literate person

[–]adriano51521 points22 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

we can meet, but there's gonna be no sex

"We won't do anything you don't want to do" then proceed to escalate each time she reminds you of this, answer the same thing or a variation of it, just reinforce you're not having sex. Unless she absolutely says no, keep escalating.

Remember don't believe what women say watch how she behaves

[–]4TBhdd4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

"We won't do anything you don't want to do" then proceed to escalate each time she reminds you of this

Good line and tactic

[–]bradtwo44 points45 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Super common my man.

Your thought process might be a tad bit toxic in that you're thinking of your encounter with this person as a take-only approach.

IMO: Enjoy the date, look for clues that she is a person of good moral character (whatever that is, is defined by you alone), and go from there. If the NOT having sex on the first date is a deal breaker for you, then there is your answer. However, there is the highly likelihood that she isn't fucking anyone else on the first date as well.

Dating is all about both of you qualifying yourself to the other person. She may say there isn't going to be sex because she might be on her period (for real) and doesn't want to or simply she is saying it so there isn't any expectation she has to live up to.

What if you have really gnarly breath on the date and now she is expected to fuck you?

​

Just look for the typical signs :

  1. How does the date go?
  2. Are the conversations engaging and deep in thought?
  3. Is she pushy for you to take her some place or expect that you do this?
    1. Dinner
    2. Movies
    3. Some place expensive
  4. Is she the type that expects gifts on the date?
  5. Does she meet all of your physical, emotional and intellectual requirements?

[–]pirategeorge15 points16 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Your head is in the right place. I can tell you are an emotionally healthy person.

[–]cupshadow1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

There's nothing "toxic" about his thinking, its just not realistic. And what is this talk on "moral character"? The guy just wants to get laid.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon8 points9 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

had it happen on 3rd date a fair number of times too, but would you say it's worth it because "girls are a bit different and move at different speeds", or is it better to just next?

Sex by third date is fine, SO LONG AS THE EFFORT IS LOW AND THE ENJOYMENT IS HIGH.

Three boring dates with a rude girl? Hell no, fuck that, next.

Three pleasant dates, easy to set up, fun girl, enjoy her company, pretty easy to escalate things, super enthusiastic BJ on the second date? No problem waiting for a third date for full sex.

If she says "we can meet, but there's gonna be no sex" (classic bullshit). Do you say "sure, whatever" or let her know that she's getting fucked and to just deal with it? Anything in between?

I dunno, I find that attitude pretty annoying. Either she's precluding sex (setting the frame, making me jump through hoops) or she's lying and knows it (also bad, because well.... lying).

[–]acp_rdit1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

If she says "we can meet, but there's gonna be no sex" (classic bullshit). Do you say "sure, whatever" or let her know that she's getting fucked and to just deal with it? Anything in between?

I dunno, I find that attitude pretty annoying. Either she's precluding sex (setting the frame, making me jump through hoops) or she's lying and knows it (also bad, because well.... lying).

Seems like pretty standard ASD. She SAYS no sex to make herself feel better, but will fuck anyway at the slightest escalation and use her hamster's excuse rolodex to come up with a reason why it isn't her fault.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Yeah.

And I find it pretty annoying.

[–]Rkingpin1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

For real. Knowing it's hamster spinning doesnt make it music to a mans ears.

It sounds domineering and not exactly submissive which gets a man going.

[–]catsdontsmile1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yup, I hate this lie. I have to literally remind myself mentally it's a lie. I've never seen it not be a lie but it either makes you feel like shit or pisses you off

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Right.

A certain amount of coyness is cute and fun, but "we're not having sex" is setting things up to be a fight of some sort - and one that she can't lose because she either wins the frame battle or she gets and enjoys the guy's efforts.

It's why I like to counter it with things like "that's ok, the bar is still open" and "not with you if you keep talking like that" and "totally, I don't know where you've been".

[–]five_eight14 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Maybe I need labs drawn but I'm not a date counter and dying to get laid. I'm ok with seeing what the scenario looks like. Lotta dudes out there sorry they stuck their dick in crazy.

[–]Kobinks17 points18 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

The UK philosophy is fuck on the first "date"...

If she's making you wait then she isn't uncontrollably attracted to you and you can't negotiate attraction so why bother wasting your time trying to convince her over multiple days.

[–]smgtn[S] 11 points12 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

The UK philosophy is fuck on the first "date"...

Well that is interesting, I'm in UK and I didn't know that.

[–]ButMessiDeservedIt3 points4 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Where in the UK are you? Hahaha.

[–]smgtn[S] 7 points8 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

London of course. I've seen someone on this sub comment that UK has one of the hardest dating markets in the world. Come to think of it, I did have better success in other (European) countries.

[–]ZeppKfw6 points7 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Really? All the british girls I've seen are some of the sluttiest out there.

[–]smgtn[S] 23 points24 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Also the snobbiest. Most of them were allowed to get fat, so the real problem is that the price of lean meat in this country is almost unaffordable.

[–]ButMessiDeservedIt7 points8 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I'm in Brum. I agree with you. Hard dating market for sure. European girls are much easier, prettier and friendlier.

English girls aren't exactly known for their beauty lol.

[–]_Last_Man_Standing_10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Q: why did English men go and sailed to conquer the world??

A: have you seen English women???

[–]ButMessiDeservedIt2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Loooool.

[–]badabing6540 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Same lmao uob is my playground. Its fun there

[–]breakdatass-4 points-3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Lean meat is not good for loosing weight because they lack energy.

Eat high fat meats, drop carbs and other sugars.

Lean meat was introduced to combat heat problems, but that is also nonsense.

[–]smgtn[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I was just joking, in this context lean meat = skinny chicks.

[–]Dboy22331 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This I know people who fuck in the first twenty minutes. It’s not rocket science

[–]ChiefBobKelso1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

If she's making you wait then she isn't uncontrollably attracted to you...

But does "not uncontrollably attracted" mean not attracted? Would a 6/10 girl be uncontrollably attracted to a 6/10 guy, or are you basically just saying as a guy, if you don't date down by a lot, you shouldn't date them at all?

[–]Kobinks-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

It's not about dating up or down, the point system is irrelevant.

It's about whether or not she wants to rip your clothes off and fuck you. (If she doesn't then why would you even want to fuck her...)

How attractive she is has absolutely nothing to do with how attracted to you she is...

[–]ChiefBobKelso0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

But there's only ever going to be so many men that women will be that crazy horny over, and a girl can want to fuck you fairly often without being driven to being that crazy horny. Obviously, you turning her on that much is good and what you should aim for, but it's just not realistic for most men.

[–]Kobinks0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

but it's just not realistic for most men.

It all comes down to where you draw the line, advice will never be all inclusive.

Should we cater everything to the 5/10 man?

How about the 2/10 Incel?

If we go down that path we're setting ourselves up for failure before we even begin, we're also excluding the actual high SMV men from the equation.

On the red pill we get a balanced spectrum of reply's, mine always veer towards the high SMV man where as others cater their's to the average or below average man.

I stand by the fact my advice is perfectly realistic for a fair amount of men and it's what all others should aspire to.

It's all just personal preference, i don't settle for sub par sex.

[–]Hungboy69694200 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Pretty much how I view it

[–]_DonDraper_31 points32 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

I think a decent rule of thumb is you should go for the kiss on the 2nd date max and for sex on the 3rd date max. But this can differ depending on the vibe and context. It's important to read every situation differently, not follow rules like a robot.

Either way, if you went for sex twice and got rejected, I'd move on.

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[–]smgtn[S] 20 points21 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, I too think that a kiss after a first date is a strong indicator if there's gonna be a second one.

[–]PM_ME_GOOD_QUOTES7 points8 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

One thing Alpha Male Strategies said that stuck with me was you should never kiss on the first date because it will leave her in your frame and keep her hamster wheel spinning and wondering what you think/feel about her. Personally, what he said helped me in the very early stages when I was BP as fuck. I used to think okay okay step 1 2 3 kino, say this line, do this etc, but with AMS I just stopped giving a fuck and just wanted to have fun.

[–]Onidramon16 points17 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

That's great advice, but take what AMS says with a grain of salt since his admitted niche is large postwall black women

[–]PM_ME_GOOD_QUOTES2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Got it, cheers brother

[–]SalporinRP6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nah girls will just think you're a pussy if you don't kiss on the first date, not alpha.

I just go for the kiss, 15-20 seconds max then either make moves to escalate at my place or end it for the night.

[–]_DonDraper_1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm not talking about getting rejected, I'm talking about not actually going for the kiss on the 1st date. Plenty of reasons for that, although you should rarely do it (I'm mainly thinking coffee dates, dates in the middle of the day etc.).

[–]fuck_everyone__4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lol kisses on the first date. Fuck on the second or third.

[–]XT3M36 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

3 dates max. anything more is a waste if you arent getting what you want.

and if she says " we arebt having sex" its just her trying to convince herself to not fuck altho she wants too. dick is on her mind

[–]1Red_Pill_Brotherhood5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is up to personal preference. I have a 2 date rule and will go a 3rd sometimes, depending on the chick/dynamic/current options.

When they say that shit test, respond with "I generally like to wait around 30 dates before sex." or "clear where your mind is doll" or "yea ur not getting lucky ;)" or similar.

[–]ChadTheWaiter1003 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Since I’ve been having sex, the only time I’ve experienced resistance, is from LTR’s.

[–]SalporinRP4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

People on here are inexperienced so they want these rigid rules to follow because it makes life easier for them. Life isn't black and white like that.

If a girl who I can tell is an absolute slut doesn't fuck me on the first/second date I will think of it in a different way than a girl who isn't a slut does the same. If I have to wait for the 3rd date to have sex with a cool girl who's fun to be around and fun to talk to I'm not gonna get butthurt about it.

[–]PhaedrusHunt2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It just depends on the situation.

One of my best plates it was date number three before I smashed.

Although we made out pretty seriously on date number one and on date number two she sucked me off so.

Yeah dude don't let a chick waste your time.

possible exceptions are old-fashioned girls with old-fashioned values with a low n count or virgins.

But if you get the feeling that she's the type of woman that's had one night stands and flings and she's still putting you off don't mess around with it.

Next time just text her to come over and hang out and if she says no soft next.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]acp_rdit1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

now pull the other one

[–]legend5032 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

However. I don't feel the need for sex the same way other guys seem to do. Or if they're weak and fall for the hype. If I enjoy the person I won't care if it's the 1st date or 7th. But at some point I want too. But I don't rush it. I don't have that drive. However I do tend to kiss them quickly to make sure she's into me.

[–]victorgrlp994 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

About the bonus question. I have been seeing a girl for a week and we have met three times. The two first dates she said we weren't having sex and we did.

​

Don't pay attention to that, if she likes you and feels attracted to you, there are a lot of ways to make her get in the mood without being too straight forward.

[–]Snowaey2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well thats TRP 101

"Don't judge them by their words, but their actions."

[–]Psychological_Radish3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Is this place going soft? Forget this second or third date bullshit. With almost every girl that I've had sex with, it happened on the first "date" (and I use that term loosely). I truly don't understand why any red-blooded male would wait unless there's reason to believe it's going to happen next time.

[–]Irtotallynotrobot1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Rules are objective and each situation varies. think about the main takeaway: if she's not putting out your interest should be gradually or sharply declining per your judgement. Ask yourself if she's treating you well, if there are extenuating circumstances, who's contacting who, etc. You may or may not have other women, but there are definitely better options for spending time than on a lackluster woman

[–]Truedemocracy51 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Depends on what you’re after. Relationship? No. Plate? Yes

[–]TheStumblingWolf1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Use your own judgment. People aren't robots where you can just set up rules and have success. If you think it takes 4 dates and it's worth it, then go.

[–]MajorMid1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Depends what you are looking for. If she is fucking you BEFORE the 3rd date shes a slut and not relationship material

[–]Yodaddysbelt0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

What a sad, sad little man

[–]Flux_71 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Fucking on the first date? Couldn’t trust a whore like that.

TRP is degenerate and at least partially responsible for the increasing promiscuity in women which is of course linked to declining social capital.

CMV.

[–]TheBunk_TB1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It depends on what you both are looking for.

[–]Friendly-Casper1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Just going for a quick hook up? 2 to 3 dates max. Bail if nothing has happened at that point. If she says no sex but wants to meet again, she's already thinking about it. Say something relatively smooth if you can manage to keep her thinking about it. She'll end up being the one to initiate, if she doesn't, she's likely just looking for free meals or trying to hold out until about 5 or 8 dates to hook you on a relationship.

[–]kclanton800 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women all move at different speeds but you should not have to take her on multiple paid dates. I can see you taking her out on the first date and paying... but after that you should either be splitting the bill or just doing something for free. She can come to your place or you can go to hers.

a woman that makes you pay for multiple days without sleeping with you is not very attracted to you.

I don't mind spending time with a woman several times before sleeping with her, but it won't be during paid dates. Unless she wants to take me out ( which has definitely happened).

[–]DominatePressure0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Dont pay attention of what she says pay attention to what she does. If she said previously to you no sex on the 1st date but she display enough hints that say otherwise just go for it buddy

[–]Cods_gift_to_reddit0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

don't overthink it - it's up to you how much time you're willing to invest and what compromises you are willing to make.

Above all else do what you want to do. What you ACTUALLY want to do

[–]Bing_Bang_Bam0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I usually ball in the first date. Then there's no need for a second.

[–]legend5030 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I never expect the first date. But the 3rd date yes.

[–]hopelesshotel0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

i would ignore the “but no sex” part of that sentence with an undertoned acknowledgment, basically take the convo elsewhere responding to the “we can meet” part only, with something like “does this place work for you?” (talking about a restaurant etc.)

what this does is tell her that YOU have been with enough chicks to know they have to put up this dog & pony show, and that u know ur finna fuck & that part doesnt faze you. also she will look dumb trying to get u to acknowledge the “but no sex” part because u didnt pay it any mind.

[–]jacklychi0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Do you genuinely enjoy spending time with her? is she pretty to look at?

If you answered "no" to any of those questions, then 2 dates max.

However, if she is a nice and pretty and you enjoy her company, keep seeing her until it happens, why not?

[–]Zombiespire0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I find there is a serious philosophical contradiction on trp where we criticize women and society for being sluts and whores and losing their conservative modesty, but we treat women that attempt to preserve some semblance of their modesty and/or chastity as worthless wastes of our time to be nexted.

Maybe it's called unicorn hunting because a lot of you dumbasses next them the moment you talk to them.

[–]IXseed0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I see a lot of guys like AMS say 3 dates but for guys like that it's because they don't really have time to raise a girls attraction past that since they're dealing with so many other women.

The key is not to cap it by a # of dates but jump ship when it's clear that they're making you wait for sex. Hey, it could happen after the 4th, 5th, if she interested at all. Also cut a girl if it's clear it isn't progressing to sex. Say if you keep trying to escalate over a few dates and keep being met with resistance, I'd bail.

BQ: Classic shit test. BS with her "You think I'm that easy?" Also, if she's bringing up sex UNPROVOKED like that, it means she's thinking about fucking you, which is a good thing.

[–]___Lana___0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I used to have the same rule as most of my girl-friends : « Don’t let him fuck you before the 3rd date », if you want to become his girlfriend one day.

If it’s just for a good fuck, there is no rule.

Before the 3rd date it looks slutty, or at least this is was I’ve always been told.

But keep in my that we create rules for the betas, and break them for the alphas ;)

[–]ppanthero0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Relax on those exact numbers. No sex can be based on so many factors of a date (period, logistics, ...). But of course - if you are paying for her dinner for the fifth time without actually having sex with her, than for sure this is going nowhere.

Ah, and for the bonus question: very obvious shit test. She needs some plausible deniability. So essentially say something like “yeah, sure“ or “do you think i am really that easy“ and fuck her anyway later.

[–]MOSFETBJT0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Four dates is the correct amount.

[–]whammyfeet0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I would never take a girl a girl on dates unless we were already sleeping together.

[–]RealEarthAngel0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

There is no “just letting her know she’s getting fucked“. It’s up to her. You have to get her consent. Otherwise it’s rape. Remember that..

[–]Kabuki431-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No women will ever fuck on first date. Its your job as a man to bring that guard down and make em wet and spread their legs.

There was just 1 instance last year where a chick didn't put out on first date and essentially told me she waits till a month. I just told her to not waste my time anymore.

[–]PiperBigBell-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Me personally, I use the first date to make sure that she has sexual interest. We don't need to have sex, but if we aren't making out, feeling each other up, I'm gonna bounce. Unless I can properly vet to see if she's super inexperienced, genuinely scared, etc. Things I might make exceptions for.

On date two I like it straight to my house, b/c I'm trying to establish us having a sexual dynamic first, not a platonic, I support you dynamic. If she still hasn't fucked me, by this point I've usually vetted enough to see whether she has any intention of ever fucking me or not. And I cut my losses at that point.

Unless there was no house available, I don't recall ever sleeping with a girl I had to see more than twice.

Yet again. I only take out on official dates girls I sleep with.

The purpose of dates of to establish sexual interest. Things like chemistry, connections are assumed and would be the natural cutting point if it was that bad. This sexuality is at the forefront.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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