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Duty Sex Sucks, How to Proceed? (self.askRPC)

submitted by cdnrpc

Edit for stats: 21%BF, 1rm bench 200, squat 270, DL 335, ohp 130.

Mission: Tell us what it is and why you need a woman's help accomplishing it (I'm being serious). -- I haven't fleshed out my mission, but includes raising awesome, lord willing God fearing family, and utilizing my giftings to share Christ's love and gospel message with those around me

Reading: Which sidebar content you've read (RPC and/or MRP) -Bpp series, nmmng, all the rpc 100, 200, 300

Finances: Current job and income quality, future prospects, debt issues -no debt issues -just left stable full time with around 100K a yr to launch a biz. So far it's successful and on track in growth. Should be matching my income in about 4 months if trends continue.

Spirtual: How mature you are, how often you pray, have quiet times, share your faith, memorize Scripture, etc. --evetyday I become more aware of my own inadequacy, pray at least twice daily with family plus spontaneously alone. Read bible 4-5 days a week as of last 4 wks. Evangelism is zip, working on improving my frame here to improve it

I'm initiating, and my wife is full of dread (not the "good" kind though) -- her dread is primarily rooted in the knowledge that I'm willing to leave the marriage over having literally zero sex for months on end.

Didn't intend to have that conversation with her, but she discovered it through my search history so I chose to own it. I'm not going to walk back my stance on that, and she desperately wants more kids.

So, for one reason or another, she's trying to have a better sex life and not reject me or play dumb with me anymore (I can't believe how she literally pretended not to notice my initiations and I accepted that BS for years).

I still account for 100% of initiations.

Around 80% of the time, it's still very clearly duty sex. There are occasions where she gets into it (ovulation time I suppose) and that's actually enjoyable for her and she cums from clitoral stimulation.

The other 80% of the times feel like borderline rape (I've read that post about unhappy wives) -- eyes closed, cringy facial expression, reluctant kiss, angry snaps if I try to touch her breasts.

Yesterday, I initiated. She suggested we watch a bit of tv then shower together, then she'd be down. Obviously this signaled duty sex, not desire. Decided to roll with it, and tried to have some fun undressing her before shower to see if I could move her from duty to enjoyment. As I got more sexual, she snapped at me--not in a "fun" LMR kind of way.

I tried to disguise my butthurt, told her that was a turn-off and I wasn't feeling it anymore.

She apologized and says she doesn't know why she acts like that--asked me to join her in the shower. We proceed to have a very non-sexual shower, followed by some very poor duty sex.

Obviously her actions scream her lack of desire/attraction to me (physically?), her resentment for my willingness to leave, and who knows what else. It's difficult to even stay erect during these crappy lays.

What's the right course of action (right now)--keep initiating? Keep accepting duty sex? Obviously the long term plan is to become more physically attractive, socially attractive.


[–]Red-Curious4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

As you've already figured out, this is a raw attraction issue. But your question isn't "why is this happening" - it's "what do I do until I get attractive?" So, most of the other answers are somewhat off-topic.

BPP's advice is that a married man should never stop initiating. Athol Kay says in MMSLP that a guy should never turn down a wife's sexual initiation. But everyone agrees it's perfectly appropriate to walk away from bad sex.

Personally, I fully agree with the last bit - walking away from bad sex, but only if you can do it in a non-butthurt way. That requires an immaculate frame and actual OI, rather than the "fake it til you make it" OI that most guys live in perpetually.

As far as the rest, I'm on the other end from BPP and AK. I think it's perfectly appropriate for a married man to go through monk mode for a time. Biblically, this is supposed to happen by mutual consent and only for a short time for prayer (1 Cor. 7). However, "mutual consent" doesn't mean "verbalized consent." If she's not initiating, that's her consent not to have sex; if you're not initiating also, then it's mutual.

I'd suggest a "short time" as a month or two, but it could be shorter or longer. I say that mostly because that's how long it takes to make serious progress with lifting/dieting. A couple weeks alone won't get you very far.

But if she initiates during this time, accept the initiation and be prepared to walk away if you're not into it - unless she pulls the husbandly duty card that most women don't even know exists because they hid it in their trash can so long ago they forgot it was there.

[–]cdnrpc[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Thanks for answering my actual question!

Was debating deleting and reposting because apparently it wasn't clear.

Will consider a brief monk-mode if things continue this way. I've done long monk modes before, but since I was even less attractive this was just a nice way to avoid rejection and create a covert contract where I got to be bitter and secretly watch porn.

Although this post paints a grim picture, I actually think I'm making progress and sexual interactions are improving overall as I destroy my previously destructive patterns.

[–]CarelessBowler51 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I just did 21 days.

It was actually really good.

Huge mental reset for me. I learned a lot about myself and how deep porn and culture have twisted my own views on sexuality.

Back to initiating now. Just when it looked like wife was getting on board, she got her period.

She's gotten good at handjobs, though. Like, she knows exactly how to take care of me, and I know exactly how to keep her eyes lit up with some cockiness and AM the whole time.

Being 13% BF also helps. I take off my shirt. She sees the abs. Her eyes say she knows the SMV game is on. She can only keep up via wardrobe and makeup for so long. My job is to keep lifting, keep being a badass dad and strong husband, and trust that God has given me a wife who will get there.

And if she doesn't?

Mission, mission, mission. Gym. Work. Church. Kids. Mission, mission, mission.

[–]OsmiumZulu2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

What’re your stats? BF%? Lifts?

[–]lololasaurus0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This

She likely wouldn't do this if she was attracted to you.

So diagnosis necessarily requires figuring out in what way(s) you're being unattractive.

[–]SkimTheDross1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It’s difficult to even stay erect during these crappy lays

PMO much?

I tried to disguise my butthurt, told her that was a turn-off and wasn’t feeling it anymore

Not only could she tell your butt-hurt, you flat out told her and complained

Obviously her actions scream her lack of desire/attraction to me (physically?)

From your OYS - 21% BF. Fix that.

But how’s your frame? You didn’t address anything mental or regarding frame in your OYS. Doubt your being honest with yourself.

From reading your post, I’m betting your frame is worse than your physical condition. The whole post comes across like it’s her fault.

Read much?

[–]cdnrpc[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Zero PMO (Means watch porn/masturbate right?)

My physical and mental game are both works in progress. I'm happy with the improvements I've made from acting like a passive aggressive woman.

I'm just trying to tease out what to do right now. Once ive got the body of Ryan Reynolds and frame of Winston Churchill maybe shell jump my twice a day.

But currently-- I initiate, wife accepts out of a combination of fear and "wanting to want to", horrible duty sex commences.

With the goal of improving our sex life, when do I accept or reject duty sex?

[–]Deep_Strength1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You need to not just share stats but everything:

ALL posts asking for help with relationship issues must include the following:

  • Mission: Tell us what it is and why you need a woman's help accomplishing it (I'm being serious)

  • Stats: body fat, height, weight, lifts, etc.

  • Reading: Which sidebar content you've read (RPC and/or MRP)

  • Finances: Current job and income quality, future prospects, debt issues

  • Spiritual: How mature you are, how often you pray, have quiet times, share your faith, memorize Scripture, etc.

The reason everyone is asking these types of questions is that ALL women are generally attracted to men who are ambitious, successful, handsome, muscular leaders. There is some variation here and there, but it's pretty consistent. Think of 10 shades of gray which sold > 150 million copies which is basically women's porn. The dude is all of the above.

If we know the above, we can usually tell if your wife is attracted to you or not. If she's not that attracted, she usually won't want to have sex.

[–]OsmiumZulu1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for posting your stats.

I'm initiating... ...she literally pretended not to notice my initiations... I still account for 100% of initiations...

Around 80% of the time, it's still very clearly duty sex... The other 80% of the times feel like borderline rape -- eyes closed, cringy facial expression, reluctant kiss, angry snaps if I try to touch her breasts.

Wonky math aside, do you initiate just to initiate or are you legitimately just trying to get off? From the sounds of it sex with her is a nearly traumatic experience.

Yesterday, I initiated.

What does that look like exactly? "Dearest wife, I would like to commit coitus with you this evening. Is that agreeable to you?"

She suggested we watch a bit of tv then shower together, then she'd be down. Obviously this signaled duty sex, not desire. Decided to roll with it.

You're in her frame here dude. Did you want to watch TV and shower? No. You wanted to get her on your dong like donkey kong but you bent to her. Like you probably always do.

tried to have some fun undressing her before shower to see if I could move her from duty to enjoyment.

There is a way of doing this, but your level of attraction / game is not where it needs to be to pull it off.

As I got more sexual, she snapped at me--not in a "fun" LMR kind of way.

LMR isn't fun.

I tried to disguise my butthurt

Fake it till you make it only goes so far. Why were you actually butthurt? Fix that and you will solve a lot.

told her that was a turn-off and I wasn't feeling it anymore. She apologized and says she doesn't know why she acts like that

On some level she does.

--asked me to join her in the shower. We proceed to have a very non-sexual shower,

Why non-sexual? "I'm sorry I wasn't being more sexually responsive... continues to do the exact thing she apologized for."

followed by some very poor duty sex.

Shocker.

Obviously her actions scream her lack of desire/attraction to me (physically?)

Yes physically.

21%BF, 1rm bench 200, squat 270, DL 335, ohp 130.

21% is a lot. You need to be cutting or recomping like your dick is going to fall off if you don't, because it might. You didn't list your weight or height, but unless you are light, short, or both those status are a great starting point but not panty dropping.

her resentment for my willingness to leave, and who knows what else.

If she is resentful that you might be willing to leave it is because she thinks you are lower SMV than she is and the thought of you leaving her is a punch to the ego. If she thought you were above her in terms of SMV you would probably see some hysterical bonding type behavior out of fear of losing you.

It's difficult to even stay erect during these crappy lays.

So why initiate in the first place?

What's the right course of action (right now)--keep initiating? Keep accepting duty sex? Obviously the long term plan is to become more physically attractive, socially attractive.

This should be a post of it's own, but duty sex is for when one spouse is horny and the other is sick or injured. The often touted advise of "initiate every day" is well intended but doesn't ultimately produce the desired result. As you continue to initiate and get rejected, her pattern of behavior (rejection or duty sex) is being reinforced. Women gatekeep sex, men gatekeep attention / validation. Constant initiation and acceptance of duty sex gives her endless attention / validation. A guy willing to accept duty sex comes off as thirsty and weak which is likely to gross her out.

Withdraw your attention / validation by ceasing to constantly initiate. Improve yourself and your attractiveness. Get busy doing productive things. Pick up some hobbies. If she wants your attention she is going to have to draw it.

[–]cdnrpc[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Around 80% of the time, it's still very clearly duty sex... The other 80% of the times feel like borderline rape -- eyes closed, cringy facial expression, reluctant kiss, angry snaps if I try to touch her breasts.

Wonky math aside, do you initiate just to initiate or are you legitimately just trying to get off? From the sounds of it sex with her is a nearly traumatic experience.

Whoops-- typo there that changes the picture. Around 20% of the time, it's decent--she gets in to it, maybe she cums--becomes an active participant. It's the other 80% is often literally horrifying.

You're definitely right about the validation thing, there are times in the past where she's subtly tried to initiate just to see if I'm interested. Then shut things down/play dumb.

I will try shutting things down if I sense the sex is grudging duty sex and see how it goes. Maybe she'll get more attracted to me, or maybe she'll become a better actress.

[–]Willow-girl0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Most likely she'll just be relieved that you've stopped pestering her.

[–]Willow-girl0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's difficult to even stay erect during these crappy lays.

Do you think your body is trying to tell you something here and what do you think it's trying to say?

Also, I wonder why your wife feels compelled to tolerate these sorts of wretched scenarios. Is she a SAHM or otherwise financially dependent?

[–]Rifleshoot0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Stats, brother. And be honest.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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