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Men's Rights

My Uncle just got hammered.


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A story for you, which now I understand things better, makes a lot of sense. Seemed insane at the time.

My Dads' brother is a couple of years younger than him, and was always a bit more laddish and a live wire when they were young, according to reports.

He lived at home until his early 30s, until he hit upon a business idea, to become a metal dealer in the local area. He built this up himself over 2 decades, eventually getting contracts with auto trade, movie studios, etc., and making some serious money. He was worth over 4 million GBP at his peak.

During his rise, he met an attractive woman who he married. My Mum always said she didn't like her, that she was 'snooty'. The womans' family didn't like our family, either, considering us to be 'common'.

I was very young when all this was going on so didn't really have an opinion.

Anyway, he married her and they had 3 kids. He built a huge house for him and the family, in the beautiful UK countryside just north of London. His 3 kids were privately educated, and all attended prestige UK universities.

Just as the youngest was finishing university, in 2008, the shit hit the fan and he lost his business. Everything, gone. China also were making it impossible to make money selling metal in the UK.

So what did his wife do?

That's right. Divorced him and took everything. The house, his belonging, the cars, his tools, everything. Took the kids with her too.

My uncle was (is) a very strong and straight guy who never had a bad word for anyone. He is a great Dad to his kids and worked himself to the bone building a life for his family.

All that is gone though, as his wife caught the first whiff of ill-tides, 2 decades into the marriage, and bailed on him.

Anyway, after 8 years of fighting her in court, he lost, and is now left with 3000 GBP, and nowhere to live, and no job, with his kids gone and everything he built, destroyed.

She offered no help at all and just bolted.


Be careful out there boys. Be very fucking careful.

EDIT. To clarify, when I said she took the kids, I didn't mean in a custodial sense. She sold and moved out of the home he built, bought a large house with the money that became her and her childrens' 'home' should they ever wish to return home, have a holiday, etc. Also, moved her social circle away from my uncle, and did things like moving her adult childrens hobbies such as horse riding / stables, etc., to where she is now living. This means they rarely see their father, and certainly can't go and stay with him for the weekend or whatever. Sorry for the confusion. Should have worded that better!

[–][deleted] 187 points188 points  (54 children) | Copy

If you want a divorce rape nightmare just listen to what happened to Dave Foley.


If this doesn't convince you to never marry I don't know what will.

[–]ChairBorneMGTOW46 points47 points  (4 children) | Copy

It makes me sick that Tabatha Southey, the hag that did this to Dave is still a celebrated columnist at the Globe and Mail, arguably the biggest newspaper in Canada.

[–]TattedGuyser18 points19 points  (1 child) | Copy

Can't really say anything about her or you'll be hit with a slander/libel charge.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

Yea well... Globe and Mail.... left-wing rag.

[–]TheSelfGoverned3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Even with the full story, they would call her a hero and/or victim.

[–][deleted] 72 points73 points  (11 children) | Copy

his story is sad, but it's one among millions.

[–][deleted] 51 points52 points  (10 children) | Copy

Yes, unfortunately so. I'm glad men are finally waking up to this reality and opting out of the unfair Marriage 2.0 contract.

I always did like Dave from when I discovered him on The Kids in the Hall. That goes way back. I had no idea about his divorce rape and now I cheer him on. I really hope he gets out of this situation. I'd like to see him getting more work but I know the c*nt ex-wife will get the money.

[–][deleted] 41 points42 points  (9 children) | Copy

Some men are waking up. Most aren't. You might think they are in this little bubble of the Internet, but there is still a long way to go for the enlightenment of men.

[–]eaton8028 points29 points  (1 child) | Copy

What's truly scary to me is the number of MRA's and even a few TRP'ers saying "alimony isn't all that bad, just needs some tweaking". As the recent toothless "reform" in Massachusetts showed us that as long as it exists in the books, no matter how gender-neutral it is worded, alimony will be used by the guy in black robes (or in powdered wigs if you live in CA/UK) to stick it to the husband in the divorce.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

no matter how gender-neutral it is worded,

It doesn't matter how gender neutral it is worded. Women are hypergamous and 99% of the time marry wealthier than they are before stopping work of their own. The man is almost always the breadwinner, and in divorce is expected to compensate the mother with half his present and future worth for babysitting

[–]UGoBoom19 points20 points  (5 children) | Copy

This. All of my bluepill friends still dream to get married one day. All of them.

[–][deleted] 11 points11 points | Copy

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[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

What amazes me... is the even though 30% of marriages survive, many are surviving under threat of divorce. I know several guys stuck in shitty marriages because they will do anything to not lose their kids.

Forget how many marriages end in divorce (about 2/3 and the divorce is at least 2/3 initiated by the femaile). How many are HAPPY? I'd guess at most 1/3 of the remaining 1/3 that survive. That's about 1 in 10 odds.

So.... 9/10 times it ends in misery and/or poverty for me... 1/10 it works out great. Those are some sucky odds gentlemen.

[–]Morpheus-Man-3 points-2 points  (2 children) | Copy

If he wants marriage he's not a redpill. It's that simple.

[–][deleted] 5 points5 points | Copy

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[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

It isn't black and white, I would love to get married and watch my little fuckers grow up, but that doesn't mean I'm going to get married and take this shitty fucking deal until a woman gets on her knees and shows me the $8000 dollar lunchbox she bought me

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

I tried breaking the bubble on my brother this weekend. Just prodded him in various ways during an hour or more long talk as we typically have after not seeing eachother for a month or so.

I kept trying to get him to admit the equality shtick is just all talk but never works in application. He just kept reverting back to "we just treat eachother like equals and its great". I've seen them, their "equality". He treats her like a goddess, and when she doesn't she gets pissy. She treats him with demands, and when he doesn't she gets pissy.

Sadly, I guess I'll have to wait for him to get burned by her before he'll be willing to listen. Its only even more infuriating since shes way obese and ever since they started dating shes been sucking him into her fat lifestyle. He went from 170 to 280 with a smile on his face because of her. Makes me sick that shes literally killing him and hes okay with it because vagina.

[–]RojoEscarlata19 points20 points  (9 children) | Copy

Or Brendan "all-my-mony" Fraser

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (8 children) | Copy

Damn. Just looked up his situation. Bitch of an ex-wife. Money-hungry cunt.

Any celebrity even contemplating marriage should have some money stashed. Give some to a family member you can trust. Have them open an account and let it draw interest. Rock solid prenup.

Screw that. Just don't even get married. Don't have kids. Gold-diggin' bitches.

[–]TwentyYearsAgo 9 points9 points [recovered] | Copy

That was my reply recently to the "don't get married" argument, get a prenup. Apparently you can't protect yourself from future gains, the example I was told if you have a small business, get married, and the business makes millions, that's what you will be judged from.

But this has got to vary place to place. I know you can designate stuff here as "special", such as inheritance. So if you divorce, the inheritance can't be touched.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (5 children) | Copy

So maybe the best scenario if you were a celebrity and chose the get married/have kids path would be to buy some land for privacy, then build a modest house and live at a middle class level to safeguard what your future alimony and child support payments would be.

"Well your honor, we chose to live as though I only earned $48k a year, so base my payments on that."

[–]ioncloud96 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah but payments are made not on what you make, but what they think you owe.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

That certainly sounds like the case being used in the Joe Rogan video, that the child support had to be 17 700/month because the children should be able to maintain their level of living even after the divorce.

[–]1neveragoodtime3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

You mean even after his career went south and he couldn't have given his children that lifestyle even if he were still married.

[–]RojoEscarlata2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

should be able to maintain their level of living

They expect that after a huge change in the families like a divorce that things (the monetary this case)will remain unchanged just like it was before said divorce. This by itself is a logical fallacy. And more so letting this kind of arbitrary judgement is just to say to people( women 99%) that their actions don't have consequences.

[–]Dark_Shroud2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Trusts, when you build something up you put it in a trust from the start.

You start putting profits in trusts for your kids. So she can't touch the money if she decides to divorce you.

Retirement accounts should not have her name as anything more than a recipient in the case of your death.

When you buy a house/property you put it in a trust.

Also, precious metals hidden in a literal safe outside the home. When I move my mother into her retirement property I'm installing a floor safe for my personal use.

[–]doublereignbeau11 points12 points  (1 child) | Copy

OMG. If he pushed her off a bridge, he would not be in jail as long as he would be for failed alimony payments.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

I know. If only she had followed through on one of her suicide "threats" he'd be so much better off right now.

[–]Vigilo_Infinite26 points27 points  (19 children) | Copy

Whilst this is a good study, it's good to keep in mind that this chick had borderline personality disorder (batshit fucking 110% crazy) and so was basically psychotic.

Furthers my theory that we need to teach men to recognise and avoid bad personality traits in women/people rather than avoiding marriage altogether.

You don't need to be interested in psychology to be able to get the basics, knowing what you want and applying a standard to the people in your life - i.e if she cheats with you, she'll cheat on you. If she has "phases" of disrespect, you need to recognize it etc.

[–][deleted] 32 points33 points  (5 children) | Copy

i.e if she cheats with you, she'll cheat on you

My rule of thumb for that has long been 'the relationship ends how it began', meaning if she started hanging out with you while still living with her boyfriend/husband and then leaves him high and dry to move in with you...

[–]GuidoBandito8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

Been there, done that. This is a big truth.

[–]Vigilo_Infinite2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Pretty insightful, I like that.

[–]foldpak1112 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I used to think omg she chose me over him then does the same shit to me a month later lol

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yep. A friend of mine shacked up with a girl he knew from his past. She left her hubby for him - not sure if they were screwing at the time though. I don't think so - and things were good. They got married. And things were good...for a while. They had two girls. And things were good...for a while. I talked to him about a year ago. Things are not good. In his own words, "Daughters are good, wives are not."

If I had to guess I'd say the wife is out having semi-regular visits with Chad T. while the hubby slaves away knowing how screwed his life is.

[–]mrgregorio1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I consider this to be common sense.

A few years back, I was talking to a girl at a party who was into me, but ended up getting with a buddy of mine instead. After a few days she found me on Facebook. Her page told me she was in a LTR with somebody the night of the party(not my buddy), though very recently broke things off. I was still interested in fucking around. I told her exactly what it was from the beginning though; strictly fucking around. I kept her as a plate for awhile, though she always pushed the idea of a LTR.

Now why in my right mind would I possibly consider a LTR with a girl like this?

[–]AcrossHallowedGround7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

I'm going to preface this by saying your post is generally correct and is solid advice.

That said, don't be mistaken in assuming everyone with BPD is completely insane or unworthy of a relationship. I, myself, have it (I'm a guy) and it saddens me to see such things said (I'm only 98% crazy ;) ). Those that have BPD and have not been diagnosed and/or don't know they have it are likely to be insufferable and unable to change, but there are those like myself and a few others I know that are putting our whole heart into getting/being better. At least in my case, it does appear to be something you can grow out of (given plenty of effort and deliberation).

But like he said, look for bad personality traits, not just diagnoses.

[–]Vigilo_Infinite1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'd have trouble justifying dating a girl who was borderline, but I think it's unfair to paint anyone 100% by saying they would be unworthy of a relationship. I mean, if we were dating for a month and then she told me, I wouldn't just drop her then and there although that does raise other questions.

I'm mildly dyslexic but have overcome it and so it doesn't effect me as much as it could. It'd be unfair to paint others with a similar brush.

I know there are varying degrees of BPD and if someone has decent self respect and boundaries they will learn what they can and can't deal with. I think having standards is important.

[–]alpha_buffalo14 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy

Furthers my theory that we need to teach men to recognise and avoid bad personality traits in women/people rather than avoiding marriage altogether.

And its so hard for the untrained male (worse for the Beta) to spot the Bat-Shit 110% type. The Bat-shit 110% type come on the strongest, have their sights firmly set so much that males misconstrue it as the strongest of love.

[–]SocialJusticeWhiner2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

What do the "phases of disrespect" indicate, in terms of mental illness?

[–]Vigilo_Infinite8 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy

People who have mental illnesses' have symptoms that manifest themselves in unhealthy ways. After all, if they could function normally they wouldn't be described as ill.

Looking for things that someone does that isn't normal is a good way to isolate those things so they can be mentally taken notice of.

If someone is mentally ill, they will have a laundry list of things that are "not normal" that range in how they interact with people to little habits they have.

To answer your question, in terms of mental illness, "phases of disrespect" mean nothing at all. Even a sociopath can be very charming if they want something so may not be disrespectful at all.

A "phase of disrespect" is just a symptom that something is wrong with them.

What someone going through a "phase of disrespect" says to me is that someone doesn't like or care enough about your well being or opinion to give it the time it deserves. Manners cost them nothing yet they are still needlessly destructive in their behaviour. They are not willing to, or, do not understand the upkeep relationships require.

This is to be looked at in context of course. If someone is stressed and snaps at you, it can be an understandable symptom of the stress they are going through.

If their illness is causing stress that means they treat you badly, it's a tale tale sign that perhaps you should put up some boundaries in how you expose your heart to them.

Someone who is a narcissist, bi-polar or anything else will have warning signs long before they stick a (metaphorical) knife in your back. Just don't overlook those signs. Have standards for people you meet.

[–]SocialJusticeWhiner2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Great answer! Thank you very much!

[–]Vigilo_Infinite6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Keep an eye out for truly selfish behaviour.

i.e -

  • "I feel shitty therefore you should feel shitty".

  • They take their bad mood out on you.

  • They cannot control their feelings.

  • They never apologise for upsetting you.

  • They brush off issues that you consider serious.

  • They constantly raise their voice or consider screaming matches "normal". That's how they were raised apparently.

  • They frequently sulk.

  • They use tears to get their own way.

  • They have double standards. ("No you can't talk to other girls. My ex? We're just friends!")

  • They are overly theatrical or histrionic.

  • They flippantly enjoy telling you about "bad" stuff they've done. (Had a friend gleefully tell me she ran away from a cab because she didn't want to pay the £7 fair.)

  • The upset people for shock value.

Truly selfish traits tend to be rooted in immaturity. When I use truly in this context I mean unjustifiably bad behaviour that they would become defensive about if pressed.

We've all done things we regret. A well-adjusted person when confronted will probably say "Yeah, that did sound really shitty. I'm sorry, I won't say that again" as opposed to these damaged individuals who will swear to the grave that it's your fault for being offended and that your feelings ran into their sense of humour.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I wonder if those traits surfaced when he was just dating her or he saw them and chose to ignore them? I don't think he mentioned in the interview. If he noticed them and proceeded on to marriage then it's on him.

I know when we're first with someone new we tend to overlook little things, but major batshit crazy stuff? Hell no. Nip it in the bud or move on. Knowing your worth goes a long way toward what behavior you will tolerate.

The older I've become the less I tolerate any disrespectful and shitty/childish behavior from anyone.

[–]Vigilo_Infinite2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

He does mention in the interview her crazy behaviour was happening before they got married. I think it's impossible to hide borderline crazy traits either way.

Perhaps he was just a little naive that people could fuck your life up. I mean, I doubt he would've gone into marriage if he knew what this woman was willing to do to him - in this case maliciously punish him to the full extent of the law.

[–]chimpchimperson1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I would argue that the majority of women are borderlines, narcissists or have some other mood/mental/personality disorder, not to mention completely delusional and can hamster/rationalize any of their shitty behaviors.

[–]1oldredder0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Ya. My naive self thought not going for girls who are ugly was easy, and not going for girls who are crazy can't be that bad, how many could there be?

Turns out by insisting on hot and not-crazy I've eliminated 90% of women from all worthwhile chances. I don't regret it. I'm not wasting my dick on a boner-killer and I'm not handing my balls to an actual killer posing as a sweet girl who happens to have these innocent twitches and sudden desires to cut balls off - it's not her fawwwlt, that's victim-blaming the stigma of mental illness!

[–]1oldredder0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Ya. Common and frequently updated red-flag indicators would be great. Like a 2nd side-bar for the subreddit, but updated frequently like it's anti-virus signatures. Some women will change some things they say/do to avoid detection because we figured them out, other patterns are deeper and can't change so they can stay the same over time.

[–]Quansau184 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Holy fucking shit. Poor bastard, and what a cunt of a wife she was.

[–]rmlaway2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Holy mother of... this is worse than slavery.

[–]HumbleEngineer3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is the stuff nightmares are made of.

[–]TaylorWolf1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Wow… could not have happened to a nicer guy.

Seriously dude is like the quintessential "good guy"… works hard, caring and loving, nice and respectful etc etc.

[–]JovianTrainWreck1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Well I didn't really need any more convincing on the matter, but what the hey. I've got a few minutes. Click.

Edit: Yup. Still not getting married.

[–]1 Endorsed Contributormordanus44 points45 points  (1 child) | Copy

A story for you, which now I understand things better, makes a lot of sense. Seemed insane at the time.

This is most of the red pill for me. We as men spent our whole lives misunderstanding women and what they were really after. I think of it as kind of a math problem. We are trying to figure out 4+x=12 and everyone keeps telling us that x must equal 20 or something. We keep scratching our heads and trying to make this problem make sense.

We go our whole lives thinking that we are the ones that are crazy for not having this make sense then we come here and see that x=8 and no amount of crying will change it. For the first time all of our crazy women stories make sense because we were able to make the equation make sense.

[–]SSolus5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

this is a great way to explain it

[–][deleted] 64 points65 points  (5 children) | Copy

This isn't a fucked up story. It's actually quite common.

What IS fucked up is that if you sat down with your uncle and told him about TRP, MRM, or even Game, he would get very angry with you and tell you it's a bunch of misogynist bullshit. He would totally reject it and chances are it would damage your relationship with him.

These guys just won't learn. Hell I was one of them. I wish we had this kind of stuff 27 years ago when I was 18. I am at least lucky enough to have never gotten married or knocked anyone up (that I know of).

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (3 children) | Copy

My dad got taken to the fucking cleaners and still gets mad when I tell him I don't ever want to get married.

[–]CoriolanusRevisited2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is pure ego protection on his part. It is very unsettling that someone can see the writing on the wall at your age, when he clearly couldn't at that age. Some people feel very vindicated when they see the younger generations making the same mistakes they did.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

My dad got taken to the fucking cleaners and still gets mad when I tell him I don't ever want to get married.

[–]wanderer77930 points31 points  (8 children) | Copy

My take is to just not get married. You can still have a family and while you can still be victimized in family court, it offers some protection.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (7 children) | Copy

they treated the same situation as if it was a marriage. Even referring to us as married, wife, husband - it really doesn't matter. At least alimony wasn't on the table.

[–]Shiningknight126 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

they treated the same situation as if it was a marriage.

This comes down to location. I am happy to live in a state without mandatory common law marriage. I recommend every man move to such a state if he doesn't want to marry but wants to have kids.

[–]wanderer7792 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy


I have a child. Not married. I have set it up where it will be harder to screw me though. I spend a lot of time with the kid and make less money than the woman. She might even have to pay me! I realize that's a long shot but I'm doing what I can to protect myself.

[–]yummyluckycharms10 points11 points  (2 children) | Copy

Common law countries generally have it set up that regardless if a couple actually got married, they become defacto married if they live together and have a kid. At which point, the court treats the relationship as though they are married.

The only way to prevent this is to not live together, and that way you just pay child support. Also, if you think that a guy will get any support money from the wife, you've got another thing coming. In hollywood, many high powered women get married to losers, only a fraction of those guys ever get anything equivalent to what it would be if the roles were reversed

[–]wanderer7791 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

yeah, it is a long shot. there will not be enough money for it anyway. There is barely enough for one household, which is by design. I do not live in a common law marriage state so that is one advantage.

As a man there is not a lot you can do short of just saying fuck the whole thing which a lot of guys are doing. I figured I'd give it one shot and if she tries to pull something I'll just let them throw me in jail.

[–]Subtletorious8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

Australia. Because so many people cohabit, even raising children, the law treats such relationships as equal to marriage in the event of separation.

[–]Borodaman15 points16 points  (4 children) | Copy

How did his wife take the kids if "the youngest was finishing university" and had to be at least 21 years old?

[–]Daily_Dosage_34 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

That's exactly what I was thinking. WTF?

[–]alpha_buffalo1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I've seen it happen in the UK, basically because the kids are in University and may still be living at home, those are the grounds that the woman gets awarded the home which ofcourse comes with restrictions for the man to visit. Plainly ridiculous.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy


I added an edit to the original post. Sorry for the confusion. My original wording did look odd, I admit.

[–]abdada95 points96 points  (89 children) | Copy

While AWALT, he took a risk and he failed. That's part of taking risks.

I know many men of means who lost everything during the last business cycle crash and their wives stuck to them throughout the rebuilding process. I even know a guy who went from $20MM to $0MM in net worth (edit, fixed word) over 3 years married to a trophy wife and when they lost their house, she went and got her first job since high school at the very same high end women's clothing store she shopped at. To help them make ends meet.

Now he's rebuilt somewhat over the past 3 years and she doesn't need to work there but she still does because she actually loves her job and the kids are grown.

AWALT, yes, but I also know a lot of alphas who are well rewarded in marriage. The risk is high, very high, but it doesn't always end in divorce rape.

And I say this as a guy who lost $1MM myself in divorce rape myself.

[–]Senior Contributorcocaine_face17 points18 points  (7 children) | Copy

My guess would be that strong headship and her knowing you have a plan with a reasonable probability of success would make her more likely to stay. That being said, it seems like a poor idea to sign a contract, still.

[–]InferiousX11 points12 points  (4 children) | Copy

her knowing you have a plan with a reasonable probability of success

Bingo. Even if you aren't there yet, as long as the woman also believes in your vision and capability for seeing it through she'll ride along.

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours17 points18 points  (3 children) | Copy

Sometimes. My first ex is kicking herself for jumping ship 13 years ago. The second is probably doing the same after going stupid 2 years ago. I have to interact with the first because we have two kids. I haven't seen the second since Sept 2013 which was our hearing for divorce. They can't see beyond today, and despite the setbacks of those two, my life is still going up and getting better. They miss out due to shortsightedness. It's how most females are. Those who stay likely don't have better options, or options that only appear to be better.

[–]1beerthroway9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

I think biologists universally consider the ability to plan ahead a significant marker of intelligence. However, these are expressed differently in men than in women, in my observation.

Men plan ahead by manipulating their environment. As it is said, we evolved to manipulate the environment. A smarter man can more easily manipulate his environment or understand it better and plan many steps ahead to benefit his life.

In the same way, I observe that a woman's intelligence may make her better at memorizing facts and regurgitating them for higher test scores, but it is innately expressed through her ability to plan ahead, specifically in regards to securing a man. Men evolved to manipulate the environment, women evolved to manipulate men. The further ahead that she can predict and aid "her man" to succeed, the smarter she is. A smart woman isn't the CEO. A smart woman is the woman that can marry a CEO-to-be. The long haul type of view.

Or rather more realistically in our culture, a smart woman knows how to manipulate those around her many steps ahead. She can carry on a relationship for years and years without ever burning the bridge if it benefits her. A dumb woman will only be able to see the immediate scenario and any benefits that might come immediately. If they don't come immediately, it's obviously not beneficial to wait.

There are intelligent women, but they are not unicorns. They merely have a better ability to plan ahead, and I think their ability to plan ahead can be used to measure intelligence.

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

So, in essence, most US women are simply stupid, because they can't see ten minutes into the possibilities. Rose colored glasses and all that.

[–]alpha_buffalo1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

her knowing you have a plan with a reasonable probability of success

Spot on. I might add that it takes some form of rational intelligence on the woman's part mixed with few viable and better options to the point that her leaving may also be risky.

We can never precisely know what the woman was thinking too, who knows if she kicks herself for not leaving whilst there was something to salvage, maybe the guy may have hidden the extent of his downfall to the extent she never knew till he was on $0.

Whilst he was on zero, she then could have realized that jumping ship with nothing, hoping to get something elsewhere, where possibly she had already reached the wall or had low SMV was highly unlikely. Given the talents of the man,she may have then decided it be best to stay with him till he figures things out...not out of love but out of circumstance.

So many variables are in play and for this reason as many have said, its a huge risk that may just not be worth it. Just the way I've described the possible scenarios is really hard to rationalize in the moment even as a RP. That's why the RP is so important because it gives you the guiding framework in order to understand how to limit bad decisions or at least not be surprised by the outcomes.

[–]frequentlywrong-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Everything depends on how a man behaves. If he picks himself up after stumbling and still has confidence, most women will gladly stay. But if he is crushed by failure, then women have no choice but to face up to the fact that her man is a failure and attraction is gone.

[–]grewapair9 points10 points  (5 children) | Copy

That's not an exception to the rule. His net worth dropped to zero, so had she walked out, there was nothing for her to take and given the job she took, she was obviously unskilled to do much of anything, so she probably would not have been able to live on her own.

So she stayed because, and probably only because, that was still the best lifestyle she could get.

[–]abdada13 points14 points  (4 children) | Copy

I'm a business consultant by trade and the vast majority of my customers for 2 decades are businesses in the 10MM to 100MM annual gross sales, always family owned corporations. I have seen at least 15% of my clients in 2 decades go under, and divorce rape has always been the exception.

I have seem many many many more divorces happen with Plebeian Cubicle Joes than with business owners who failed. Plebeian Cubicle Joe will always get a job and the courts will always find a way to extract tithes to exes.

Business owners (C-corp) have options for disavowing future wealth from their personal SS#.

[–]elevul1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

You talk big, but do you have any proof of your statements?

[–]abdada5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

You, an anonymous user, are asking me to qualify myself?

I post under my real name here on reddit. And I've posted under my real name in the TRP communities for 15+ years. Roissy, Rollo, Roosh and Heartiste's blogs? I post under my real name. When I've been interviewed in newspapers and magazines, I used my real name.

No need to qualify myself to you -- my reputation speaks for itself.

[–]OneTrueChaika4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

I hate to burst your vanity bubble sir, but if you could put forth the name to look for I think it would assuage his doubts.

He doesn't exactly have the time to both be making mad gains trying to lift, and look for some guy with the only knowledge being.

Posts in TRP communities for awhile, uses real name, gets interviewed by newspapers/magazines... if you don't give him the name he quite likely won't just find it like that.

[–]abdada-3 points-2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I have no vanity bubble here. I freely offer advice to the average joe that marriage hating is a position held by anonymous cowards.

I post using my real name not in defense of marriage but to shine a light that the guys on reddit are the least likely to take direct advice from if they aren't coming from a positive of experience.

I've met redditors. In general they shouldn't marry. Not because marriage is bad, but because the guy is unlikely to be capable of leading well.

[–]flexiblehold3 points4 points  (15 children) | Copy

Sometimes people jump off buildings and don't die, too.

[–]abdada-1 points0 points  (14 children) | Copy

As I said, I lost a ton in a divorce. Took me a few years to pull my bank balances up again and return to normal. But it wasn't the end of the world -- it was proof that I lost frame in a relationship that actually did help me get wealthier until I gave up the leadership role.

That being said, I guarantee the wealthiest men I know have some of their wealth due to marital connections as well as doors that refuse to open if you're a bachelor. It's like hot guys who can't get corporate jobs because ugly fat bald managers don't want office competition -- wealthy married dudes often times won't invite a guy to their shindigs and BBQs if he's single. Mate guarding.

[–]flexiblehold4 points5 points  (13 children) | Copy

I detect a lot of psychological bargaining and rationalization in your posts itt, I got divorce-raped, but it's all good because I'm better for it. NAWALT. Even if AWALT, it's ok because this is how we learn.

To me, you're ironically revealing how brutal and traumatic divorce-rape is by defending it the way you are.

[–]abdada1 point2 points  (12 children) | Copy

I'm defending nothing.

I've left a bet with a lot of alpha wannabes on TRP communities for a long time: I bet you will be married in 20 years.

Since I post under my real name, and people commonly say "hey, I remember you from (old alpha blog)", if you're still part of TRP in 20 years, I'll bet you'll be married, too.

Now, if you've been divorced, I won't bet on it, but I'd weigh strong odds of 3:2 that even a divorce raped guy will remarry again.

The reddit TRP is composed of a lot of incel fat IT neckbeards. Of course they're going to marry when they fail at reaching peak alphadom. One-itis is stronger than anyone admits.

My failed marriage still lead to me networking with some winners that I otherwise could not have met. Two of those winners are part of my life today, and part of my business success.

Since becoming a bachelor, it is much much harder to connect with married-but-powerful types because they don't trust single guys. That's a truth.

If you want to be an alpha loser, go ahead. If you want to rule the world, doing it by yourself in a sure-fire bet on failing because you won't network with the people that count.

Most of the top alphas in the world are married.

Many of the top alpha bloggers are married.

Guess why that is.

[–]OneTrueChaika6 points7 points  (6 children) | Copy

maybe its just me, but i'm really starting to doubt that your real name is abdada... could just be me doubting people at face value.

[–]abdada0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

I am not qualifying myself to you, either.

Reddit doesn't allow space or periods in usernames, does it?

[–]OneTrueChaika0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

But replies allow both spaces and periods in usernames therefore you're dodging the question with both an attack, and a question.

That's definitely a mature way to handle a question.

I hope you don't handle shit tests the same way because you would fail like a brick...

[–]abdada1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Actually, key elements to handling shit tests are:

  1. Holding frame
  2. Not qualifying yourself to anyone
  3. Leading the shit tester into your frame

Which is basically how I handle stupid questions. I have used this username, which is my name without periods or spaces, for almost 20 years (other than slashdot, I think).

How fscking hard is it for you lazy fscks to go to Google? Very lazy. Which is why you think you're in control of this subthread.

Hint: you're not. I will assume you're a videogame addict of some kind, because the way you're carrying yourself here is very similar to how most videogame addicts carry themselves in any conversation, online or in real life.

[–]OneTrueChaika0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Sir, you should really calm down getting this riled up over a guy questioning validity via the internet has gotta be bad for your health.

I mean I kinda assume you're not bullshitting considering your TrpEndorsed tag, but it never hurts to provide a single link as a rule of thumb....

Yes, I am a videogame addict... I play videogames about 2 hours a week, and couldn't possibly live my life without them. They also cut into everything I do inhibiting my ability to function as a member of society, and work.

Maybe you can't tell, but i'm trying to maintain a level of civility here, there is no need to get so pissed. On your name does that mean its Abd ada or something because the way i've read this an comprehended was you stating your reddit name is your real name without spaces, but I could be pulling a blank in my severely sleep deprived state.

[–]bebestman2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

Powerful people in the past always were married though at the same time it was ackknowledged that at least the male can get some on the side. Why should that change now?

It is amazing how the users here can question the dynamics of the sexual market place but fall short on understanding power on a larger and historical time scale.

Personally, I want to have some fun for a couple of years, the typical spinning plates stuff. But after that, I fantasize about building a legacy such that my descendants will proudly hang my picture in their homes and wonder if I'd approve of their choices. And of course getting some on the side.

[–]abdada0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Alpha was defined for thousands of years as ... having sons.

[–]abdada0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I know for a fact that every powerful married dude I know gets some on the side.

But he's AB to his wife so she doesn't consciously realize.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'm divorcing a looser. I got no gains from being married to her

[–]WAFC56 points57 points  (55 children) | Copy

And I say this as a guy who lost $1MM myself in divorce rape myself.

And yet you babble about unicorns and thinly veiled NAWALT. Yikes.

[–]abdada38 points39 points  (52 children) | Copy

I'm not babbling about unicorns, I'm talking about the benefits that most guys don't see when it comes to marriage.

Wealthy guys, to a fault, do not worry as much about losing past money like broke guys.

Older guys with extensive networking options DO see benefits in having a wife. More doors opened for me (network-wise) when I was married than as a single bachelor, even in my 40s. Doors have CLOSED socially-financially because I'm a bachelor, even though I LTR versus ONS.

One of my strongest networking groups is 100% married, and probably 80% alpha.

Just because reddit TRP is 80% young and 90% broke doesn't reflect well on realities. I'm a sigma and always surprised that everyone here wants to be alpha, and only for one reason: because the majority here are incel.

Still, I find sigmas here, and I find a few diamonds who are assured financial and social success outside of the sexual marketplace itself.

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours30 points31 points  (8 children) | Copy

I've rebuilt twice because of divorce. Still doing it the second time, and like you I'm mid 40s. I will not do it again just because some near unicorn decides to be awalt. I don't exist to make another bitche's life easy after busting my ass. Fuck that, I live and work for me now, and I am sticking to a simple, low stress life rather than the complicated dangerous hell I've already survived.

Marriage is ok for some, but how often would you cross the street or get in a car if 40% of the time you'd get hit? I've seen it countless times now, a successful man beat down by divorce. Why build up again just to give it all to some disloyal ungrateful entitled harpy? Fuck that, fuck them.

[–]abdada0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Since my first divorce, I only LTR women who do better than me on paper, and many of my assets are in blind trusts.

On paper, I would "win" in a second divorce.

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy

I won't LTR anyone, pure and simple. Have had enough of that.

[–]elevul1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Hmm, I guess at that point of net worth you can avoid most of the issues with marriage by abusing the legal loopholes.

[–]abdada6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

If you own your own businesses (plural) you should talk to a divorce lawyer BEFORE even letting a woman live with you -- some jurisdictions create commonlaw situations quickly.

[–]donit0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

"I've rebuilt twice because of divorce". That also means you built twice because of marriage. You're assuming you'll be able to do it again without the marriage, but is that actually happening?

This question is for everyone- does anyone know some actual cases where the guy builds up again, or do they just flounder along teetering as if they're missing a support beam? I've been curious as to how much marriage plays a role in success. It's easy to assume you could do the same without a partner, but the question is, does that actually happen?, and to the same extent?

Of course, even if marriage doubles your income, there isn't much point if it's all going to be ripped out from under you anyway. Is it better to have it temporarily and then lose it, or to have never have had it at all? Still, I've seen guys who's income rose 5-10 fold during their marriage, and then collapse afterward, never rising to those levels again. There's something about having a partner, coach, cheerleader and audience showing up to every game and cheering you on -vs- trying to stay as motivated and trying to perform just as well on your own, and going through the same motions on the same ball field- by yourself. As humans, we react to our environment.

Marriage is still probably a bad deal overall, but it's not that cut and dried. Perhaps tweaking it by marrying a higher-income wife would help take care of both issues at the same time. There are a lot of high-performance career women in their late 30's who have painted themselves into Darwinian corner with the illusion of having a financially-successful life, and now they are just waiting to be rescued from the jaws of extinction.

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Fuck yeah I am rebuilding without marriage. How the hell do you think I built anything? First marriage was at 25. By then I was a combat veteran, going to school full time, working full time, and building my life. She came in and was not only a huge expense, but a hindrance to everything I did. Due to her i had to close my business and go back to the military. Fucking bitch spent more than I could make and prevented me from growing it. Kicked her out when I was 31. I was $50k in debt thanks to her.

Next marriage was when I was 42 , it lasted all of 16 month. She drained me for five years prior to that, and both left me homeless.

Now I'm building my home, a shop, and my life over again. There will be no bitch crawling in my wallet and taking another home from me.

A cheerleader for me? A coach for me? Seriously? There is no female on the planet who could be either of those for me. Shit, every fucking girl I've been involved with has needed me for something, and all I need them for is a sex partner. I sure as fuck don't need to be married to have sex. The girl I'm seeing right now needs a father figure for her sons, and a man who is strong enough to be her source of strength. She has her own money, but she needs me far more than I need her.

I do not rescue people who have made shit life choices. They can go extinct, I don't give a fuck. I have no idea where you get that rose colored view of marriage, but I suspect it's from never having been married, or haven't been long enough to be divorced. I'm smart enough to read them and I know when they start cheating. You might not be.

[–]ZeusAlansDog 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

That depends on what's on the other side of the street.

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

From what I've seen, not very much I can't get on this side.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy

Is that the best reason you can come up with to get married? So you can become involved in some high end investment deals with other wealthy married men?

[–]abdada-4 points-3 points  (1 child) | Copy

No. My doctor (strong alpha) has had 5 wives. Zero divorce rape history. Zero. He's in his early 80s, his 5th wife is in her late 50s. She takes exceptional care of him and is well bonded to him.

Want to raise a strong and powerful son? Try getting him into a private grade school if you're not married. Not all guys want to have kids, but those that do have to consider the social structure for their offspring.

Etc, etc.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

5 wives? Well, that's rather embarrassing if you ask me. Even if he did get away with zero divorce rape, so what? He can hire a nurse if he needs someone to take care of him.

I also find your second point hard to believe. Your saying that a single parent isn't going to get their kid into a private school if they're not married, even if they have the money? Doubtful.

I'm not trying to be disrespectful, I just really don't think there is any merit to what you're saying.

[–]TRP VanguardtrpSenator2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I agree. I think most guys that get fucked over are chumps to begin with. Not saying It's their fault, but the signs should have been obvious.

I'd put money down that rp guys are going to do some heavy vetting before marriage and would likely find a good woman who isn't going to fuck them.

Too many people forget that there are happy marriages all the time. It's just the chodes getting fucked over.

[–]abdada2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Exactly so.

Just keep in mind what the medium here is. It is not the average Joe by any means.

[–]Shiningknight121 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You could get most of those benefits by living with a woman and having kids with her without getting marriage. This gets most of the benefits without any risks.

This may cause issues for the older generations, but millennials are putting a much lower value on the marriage certificate.

[–]through_a_ways1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

One of my strongest networking groups is 100% married, and probably 80% alpha.

Just because reddit TRP is 80% young and 90% broke doesn't reflect well on realities.

You defeated your own point.

How old are you? 30s? 40s?

Either way, your generation did not live through the same things that the currently late teens/20s generation lived through.

The women of your generation were less spoiled, catty, and had far fewer opportunities to meet men while growing up.

The men of your generation were conditioned less by hypersexual images of women, feminism inherent in the education system, and have more testosterone on average.

TRP reflects very well on the realities of its main demographics.

[–]abdada2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Women haven't changed at all. I've dated plenty of women significantly younger than me as I own a business in Chicago's university village area and coeds walk in every day.

TRP hasn't changed.

It is all the same as my dad had it abd his dad before him.

Laws change. Entitlements change. TRP is the same as always and will always be the same.

If you fear divorce it is because you know you don't have control of your life and assets and future income potential.

Which is fine, but dudes need to fess up that they are afraid of their own shortcoming versus blaming structures they know nothing of and only have the choir to preach to.

[–]hebola4lyfe1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I am not even sure if you are a troll or just plain idiotic. None of the things you said is even true .

[–]Jewfro209 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

What's the meaning of sigma in the terminology here? I thought that we only used alpha, beta, and omega.?

[–]abdada3 points4 points  (31 children) | Copy

  • Alpha: Captain/player on a football team / Leader
  • Beta: Fan of football games / Follower
  • Sigma: Owner of the football team / Lone Wolf
  • Omega: Plays football videogames / Loser

[–]elevul16 points17 points  (19 children) | Copy

Isn't this starting to get too complicated?

[–]skolrageous2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

That's the problem; the human scale is a really blurry gradient and the reality is trying to categorize everyone is impossible.

[–]through_a_ways0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'm of the opinion that there are far fewer true alphas on manosphere sites than for the general population.

The reason for this is that true alphas have absolutely no trouble attracting women, and very little trouble keeping them (keeping them sexually attracted, I'm not talking about relationships).

True alphas are socially dominant and extroverted. Extroverted people spend less time on the internet, analyzing patterns, and doing intellectual things in general. This doesn't mean they're not intelligent, but rather that they only do intellectually demanding things if they offer a real life benefit (getting good grades, etc.).

True alphas are also very tall (at least 6'3"), and built (not lanky).

Tends to have wider facial features (mainly jaw and nose to an extent) than average.

They also tend to be proactively kind and inclusive of the people immediately around them (at least after high school or so).

People like this have the least reason to find and post on sites like Roissy's, Rollo's, etc.

[–]aakksshhaayy0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Depends how you use the term alpha, in a broad sense an alpha has several different types (cowboy (loner) = sigma, jock (top social person) = alpha). They are both "alpha" in their own way. It makes sense just to use alpha and beta. You can split beta in a similar way into beta and omega and others.

[–]RPthrowaway1230 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

Yeah, the only terms that really matter are alpha and beta. The rest is just splitting hairs.

[–]abdada4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy

No, it isn't splitting hairs at all. Alphas and Sigmas are very different mindsets with extremely different goals.

Sigmas detest seeing beta'd sigmas trying to be alphas because it doesn't work. It's wasted effort.

[–]RPthrowaway1239 points10 points  (2 children) | Copy

I think that it's over-analyzing. Very rarely does anything besides the alpha-beta relationship seem to matter especially when it comes to the theories and stuff we talk about here. It's unnecessary muddying of the waters.

[–]abdada0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Except you have no idea how many guys come to TRP communities and give up because they can't attain an alpha status. I do know because I am part of TRP communities to reach out to the failed alphas that are actually sigmas. And I've met hundreds over the years. I've actually met a lot of them in person, too.

And dollars-to-donuts, there are a lot of sigmas in the failed alpha group. Not a majority by any means, but a healthy minority.

[–]abdada-2 points-1 points  (10 children) | Copy

Do you know how many betas and omegas I have seen over 15+ years in TRP communities who wanted to become alphas even though they were natural sigmas? Many.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

And what's the difference between a beta who would naturally do better as an alpha and a beta who would naturally do better as a sigma?

[–]abdada1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Logistically the lost alpha tends to be the top of the shit pile (reaching to become the bottom of the gold pile). A leader of betas. Tends to at least not be incel but readily BBs in each LTR. ONS options are incredibly rare.

The lost sigma tends to be a lone wolf most of the time -- not frequently being a leader of betas ("top of the shit pile") but also not being a follower of betas or alphas ("bottom of the shit pile"). Sigmas do tend to be incel with periods of ONS and very rare LTRs because the sigmas get bored easily.

In my opinion, the vast majority of betas will stay betas because they aren't really alpha-worthy nor sigma-worthy. There's nothing wrong with being beta -- one can happily be BF and avoid BB traps. BF's actually get a lot more attention than one would think, and they're pretty common. Because BFs get laid regularly, they don't come to TRP sites.

Most people coming to TRP communities are incel omegas or hurt BBs.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy

How would you identify a sigma vs an alpha as far as traits/ personality ect?

[–]abdada6 points7 points  (6 children) | Copy

Alphas tend to attract beta females.

Sigmas tend to attract alpha females.

Alphas developmentally end up way more in corporate/salaried positions with leadership roles. Sigmas tend to end up self employed. Of all the angel investors I've met in many years, I have met almost zero alphas. All of them are sigmas. I know very few alpha business owners -- most are sigmas. The alphas tend to be BB/AF when they marry, the sigmas tend to be AB when they marry ("male unicorns").

[–]MyRedAccount1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Why do you even want an alpha female? I've been A, B, and S, and am probably going to end up a bull. I don't see any allure to the alpha female. None. Zip. Why Bother? Boring and dull. SO SO boring. If you're DT at least say something believable.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Interesting thoughts. How would you say they differ in a more detailed sense? I see what you mean as far as results but how would one go about deciphering which of the two categories they might fall into

[–]RiseAboveRuin0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

[–]abdada2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

The socio-sexual heirarchies have been debated for years. Even alpha blogs talk about sigmas and how alpha males tend to hate them. Hell, even Krauser has some jelly-ness over the sigma.

[–]cariboo_j1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

How valid do you think these hierarchies are?

Seems like they are just categories invented by laymen PUA writers, to be honest.

Sure alpha/beta/whatever can be a useful tool, but these are not scientifically tested categories.

Smells like bro science, bro.

[–]abdada1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Alpha and Beta behavioral traits are well documented in psychological research.

Loner variants are as well but are generally not defined by a Greek letter.

Most loner variants in behavior trait models are attributed to extreme cases (mass murderers, deviants, etc).

Human behavioral modeling in science leaves much to be desired. More students are being done on liberal sex theories than on perfecting the descriptions of hormonally normal heterosexual folk.

[–]RiseAboveRuin0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I was just ribbing you brother

[–]mEatBucket0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I didn't know this thanks for sharing, bit rusty on the sidebar material.

I never felt like I'm a beta nor an alpha so makes sense for me.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I thought the captains would be alphas, betas would be other players, deltas would be in the fans.

[–]abdada-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

Betas aren't part of the team. Alphas would get on stage in a band, betas pay to see them. The lead singer isn't the only alpha on stage.

Alphas will act, betas wait in line in a theater.

Leaders versus followers.

Sigmas own the movie company, the sports team and the concert hall.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

that kind of assumes everyone in the band (on the team) is alpha. I think that's a gross overestimate. Top 20? maybe. But in my mind the alphas are 1-5%

[–]donit0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

How about alpha provider, the successful man who places his women on a subservient level, and generously cares for and provides for them like a daughter? That would seem to defy all the rp categories.

[–]abdada0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

That's still alpha -- it's the "Alpha Bucks" unicorn that all women covet but only (generally) the best women can access.

[–]hebola4lyfe0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

More doors opened for me (network-wise) when I was married than as a single bachelor, even in my 40s. Doors have CLOSED socially-financially because I'm a bachelor, even though I LTR versus ONS.One of my strongest networking groups is 100% married, and probably 80% alpha.

Its so weird. Its as if you are trying to encourage us to get married for business purposes .

[–]Shiningknight122 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

The risk is high, very high, but it doesn't always end in divorce rap

Why marry instead of just live together though? I will take risks for a reward, but there is little reward for marrying.

[–]A_Roasted_Peanut13 points14 points  (2 children) | Copy

This story sounds like bullshit:

The kids are old enough to attend university. No child support payments. The kids can't be "taken" as they're adults.

There is no alimony in the UK. Partner maintenance is extremely limited in scope in comparison, and not mandatory with every case. If he has no income because his business failed, he wouldn't be paying anything anyway.

Under marital property laws in the UK, it's a 50-50 split by default. Courts have discretion to alter this but there must be a fair justification. Something approaching 99-1 would never happen.

Divorces in the UK must go through a court where a justification is given. It's not like the US where there's no fault divorce and it can be done in a day in some places.

Also a PSA: In the UK, pre-nups are legally worthless.

[–]MrRexels-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Man, if UKIP won, that country might actually be worth checking out. Didn't they ban kinky porn a while back ago though?

[–]caesarfecit-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah even with bullshit divorce laws he shouldn't get totally hosed like that.

Not to mention, even if you accept AWALT, her behavior seems off. She may have been a closet bitch but you don't leave the guy you had kids and built a life with just because the economy tanks and takes his business with it. The only plausible explanations is she wanted to cash out while there was still assets worth jacking and/or there's some infidelity going on, maybe by both of them, which is why the court case got dragged out.

Also, how could she take the kids if they're all well over 18?

[–]drqxx12 points13 points  (6 children) | Copy

I have two kids; a beautiful woman; and I'm never going to get married. We also share a girl from time to time.

[–]Shiningknight122 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy

I am aiming for the same. Fortunately we live in rational areas that don't force marriage on you.

[–]drqxx2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy

Make sure there is no common law marriage in your area.

[–]Shiningknight123 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy

Texas here. Common law marriage requires the couple agree to it. So long as you don't claim to be husband and wife, you aren't.

[–]drqxx2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Sounds awesome. Hope you're near or in Austin.

[–]CoriolanusRevisited0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Thank you for this. People around here blow up common law marriage to huge proportions, when the reality is that nobody in the USA ever ends up common law married without that being their explicit intent, hence why nobody ever provides facts or studies about guys paying alimony for a common law wife they never intended to marry.

[–]Shiningknight121 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

It happens in other countries. Australia, for instance, does not require the consent of the couple for them to be labeled as married. If you live together for a certain length of time, you are automatically considered married.

I just hope that other countries don't institute similar laws to deal with couples living together but not marrying.

[–]nuesuh4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

to have and to hold from this day forward, for better or for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish; from this day forward until death divorce do us part.

[–]TheAntiPedantic5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

She took kids that had already graduated from college?

[–]Bakkie2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

What she did was shitty, but...

If he established a relationship with the kids growing up, she would not have been able to "take" them when they finished Uni at, age what 22 or so?

Knowing something about so called rich people, it is entirely possible that the big house was highly mortgaged, the cars leased and that there wasn't as much as it looked like fo her to get.

I am very surprised about his belongings and his tools. That wouldn't happen in the US.

You didn't mention it, but if he avoided spousal maintenance aka alimony, something good came out of it. The longer you are married, the higher you live, the less the wife worked, the more likely the man gets stuck with alimony.

Small consolation though. Sorry for your family.

Did your cousins keep in touch with their Dad?

[–]aazav2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yep. From what I've learned and seen, I'm never fucking getting married in the US.

[–]Daily_Dosage_32 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

She offered no help at all and just bolted.

A lot of men out there cannot fathom that all the intensely emotional pillow talk, the shared memories, having kids together, sharing decades of life experience together means nothing to women once they see a better deal. Either Chad or divorce rape will eventually happen to most marriages in the West because no laws exist to protect us men, rather the laws exist to exploit us.

[–]wasthereadogwithyou0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

What do you mean by "Chad?" Some random dude catches her fancy?

[–]Daily_Dosage_31 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Do a quick online search for "Chad Thundercock"

[–]wasthereadogwithyou0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Gah ha ha ha! Oh man, that's hilarious, especially the fake tinder profiles.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

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[–]M17CH2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Worth 4 million good boy points? That is pretty beta to earn that many.

[–]Killeurkilleur8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

If the youngest is done with university how can she take the kids ??? They,re all adults now....cool story bro...

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Edited the post to clarify. This is honestly a true story. Apologies for the poor wording.

[–]wasthereadogwithyou2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Typical UK cunt from the sounds of it.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Never getting married, never having kids.

[–]Hennez1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

That's just heart-breaking man. He was everything a succesful man could hope to be but the reality of women sexual agenda and hard-coded imperatives hit him full-force without any mercy.

It just goes to show how warped some values are in this society we live in and how we are sold a different idea as to what things really are.

Sorry for him but he will find the strength and courage to remake himself. Lend him a hand if necessary, you're redpill aware. You could learn a lot from him and he could benefit from someone like-minded that manages to remind him that all is not lost.

[–]2Sepean1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's like if the wife gets fat. Neeext.

[–]1favours_of_the_moon1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

There's more to this lesson than just, "don't trust a bitch even after 3 kids and 20 years of marriage."

KNOW what is going on. KNOW your industry. If his business just suddenly took a shit, a find it very difficult to believe this would have been impossible to see coming. Look to the future. Follow the markets. Be aware of that shit.

Here's another lesson. It's called ASSET PROTECTION. Have a little stash on the side. Doesn't even have to be in your name. Have it in a corporate name. Maybe someone you CAN trust. Bury some gold and silver coins someplace where 1: it won't be found and 2: is accessible in case tshtf. But have a backup plan. And remember the first rule of the backup plan.

Third lesson is, this is the worst case scenario, what happened to your uncle. The wife (and the market) can take all that he "has," that is visible to them. What the wife CANNOT see, is what he REALLY has. Which is, experience, knowledge, productive capacity. That's something they cannot take away and in fact, wouldn't know if it bit them in the ass.

[–]1oldredder-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy

There is NO WAY ON EARTH To know what you just wrote.

I know, I follow on Zerohedge. Banks in China are hoarding iron, copper and other commodities to use as LOAN collateral. It's all secret there: by the time we hear it's stale news. Fraud is RAMPANT In commodities trading globally. Add in Russia with palladium. Add in USA with copper, iron and even JP Morgan with ALUMINUM of all things. That's right: today aluminum is more than 500% the price it should be purely from inventory manipulation and bottle-necks created by ONE bank, JP Morgan.

It took years just to uncover that MAY be the case and even more leg-work to find out HOW and prove it, and along the way a few bankers have had "nail guns accidents" and sudden suicides.

This shit gets people killed and you expect the random business owner just to know it?

The true red pill is ECONOMIC, not sexual strategy and without it you'd never know these things.

Zerohedge & red pill predate the existence of reddit

[–]1favours_of_the_moon0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

[–]1oldredder0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

partially invalid:

this doesn't contain the required time-series functions to predict market-fluctuations with criminal fraud by nation-states and central banks which influence all the prices and shipping times for hard commodities like oil, aluminum, gold and all else that ties into every cost of labour, availability of jobs, etc. These are the key factors controlling investment-value because you can only ever win by

  • starting at an under-valued price

  • ending at an over-valued price and exit immediately

If you get caught on the down-swing you are financially destroyed which is 90% of the people's fate.

In the end one must find a way to work less while putting more into long-term benefit holding anything/everything, starting with securing your home, your land and your goods on that land. Key to this will be storing food which requires no power, no refrigeration, and securing a clean water supply direct from the land & air.

From there on by all means some gold, some silver, some tools, but skills to feed off the land, adequate sources of meat (wild game) and so on will be needed. There's enough for us all... it's far more than financial planning, it's resource-planning

[–]TheSandmanECW1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Step 1: Prenup.

Step -1: Dont get married idiots.

[–]ECoast_Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'm not as against marriage as pro prenup.

In many countries, if you live with someone, obligations similar to marriage will arise. Marriage can actually be your friend because you get certainty, and can devise a contract to that effect. If you just neglect any planning, you may wind up paying out your ass due to equity.

To any man here, choose your lawyers carefully and encourage (and pay the premium for) creativity rather than standard form pre nups.

I heard around the mill that Ronald Perelman's (billionaire corporate raider) prenup with Barkin was structured in the form of options. So, if they stayed married for one year, either party had the option to divorce and she would receive X amount, if it was two years, Y amount and so on.

This is incredibly creative. I have never heard anyone else do it this way, and to a judge it looks fair and is less likely to get thrown out.

Apparently? She got completely fucked and got almost nothing ( a few million as opposed to half a billion) stuff like that.

Don't cheap out!

[–]xthemoonx1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

the more fucked up part is how he managed to ignore all the warning signs. he basically let this happen to himself by getting with her in the first place. his mom even warned him lol

[–]watersign1 point2 points  (14 children) | Copy

gotta love western women. as an american, i quite fancy a proper british woman but i see them for what they are- western cunts

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (13 children) | Copy

American women are better mate. Leave it as a fantasy.

[–]watersign1 point2 points  (12 children) | Copy

what america has going for it is that 'american' can mean any race/ethnicity whereas british pretty much means anglo-saxon.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

In 1977 perhaps.

The #1 most popular name for newborns in the UK is Mohammed, and has been for years.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (10 children) | Copy

LOL, what are you talking about?

[–]watersign1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy

most byrds in the UK are british. i could take you out to any city in the U.S.S.A and find byrds of quite the variety

[–]TheSubOrbiter0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy

what the fuck are you talking about. use plain english im a bit slow.

[–]alclarkey1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Is it really that hard? Byrd=woman. I'm an American and I figured it out the first time I heard it, context ya know?

[–]1oldredder-2 points-1 points  (6 children) | Copy

he's from England - by definition it is English!

[–]TheSubOrbiter0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

i dont think thats how it works, but ok.

[–]1oldredder-1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy

the language is called English because of where it came from - England - that is how it works

[–]TheSubOrbiter0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

yeah but even being english you cant just make up sounds and say "im english, therefore its english!", thats not how it works.

[–]TruBlue1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

When money goes out the door love goes out the window! - If its any consolation my ex did a similar thing. Learn boys!

[–]1oldredder0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yup. Marriage is not red pill on hard mode: marriage is BLUE pill on suicide mode. You have to first live in a nation with no such laws to be a red pill married man. The red pill is total awareness, total rejection of bullshit, not just sexual strategy but legal and financial strategy too.

[–]the99percent11 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Here's what you could spend 4 million instead.

A studio service apartment in central London. A new Mercedes, every 3 years. Whores every other night.

Investment to stock markets.

Profit and live freely men. Fuck marriage. Kids aren't even worth the risk you take.

[–]wasthereadogwithyou0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You could pay a concubine, if you really wanted kids.

[–]2Overkillengine1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Men should refuse to get married until the marriage contract is treated just like any other joint venture.

[–]AlfaWolf1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

Divorced him and took everything. The house, his belonging, the cars, his tools, everything. Took the kids with her too.

She was able to take everything? Doesn't it usually go 50/50? How is this possible?

[–]infoMuse1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

The anti-prenuptial agreement

[–]1oldredder0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I almost never see it 50/50 anywhere. That's the best-case scenario with the best lawyers.

[–]ThePedanticCynic1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Marriage is a war, and the only true way to win a war is not to fight one. Women use the M.A.D. approach: Mutually Assured Destruction. Women behave at the whims of their emotions, and their emotions tell them that if you're not wealthy, you're not a person. For them to nuke you isn't even a conscious choice. It's just who they are.

Men love women, women pretend to love men until they find what they consider a better man. That's it.

[–]MonetaryCock0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Absolutes are absolutely garbage.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

WHAT can I do to prevent such horrible occurring? (other than not getting married)

[–]sweeptheleg550 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

A lot of women are loyal to the qualities you cultivate. The real deal for life u gotta find young. She liked you for you. She probably wasn't hot either. But you got on real well

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I just--where is the logic in here getting everything? When she did nothing to create it? She did nothing to maintain it. She was a hindrance if anything. And yet she gets everything? How is that fair even in a BP world's eyes?

[–]1oldredder0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Law vs frame: law always wins. No man on Earth can use frame to stop a woman from doing this. Never forget this. That's a solid red pill lesson. Only living where there are no laws permitting a woman to do this will you find any security.

[–]BlackHeart890 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Well... I understand a BP guy wanting to get married. But why anyone would marry a snooty bitch, I'll never know. If she demands a several thousand dollar(+) wedding ring (by price), she's full of shit.

Her: I love this ring! Oh.. wait. It only cost $3,000?

[–]Ball_shan_glow0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Just get a freakin prenup, is it that hard?

[–]1oldredder0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It is. Most will fail. Many have already. Judges have the legal power to rip them to shreds.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

Hey fellow Americans, want to see the 'beautiful progressive utopia' in our future? Just look at Britain and Europe, because that's us in a couple years. Terrifying.

[–]Viklove-1 points0 points  (6 children) | Copy

4 million GBP isn't even that much... It's honestly really easy to lose.

[–]TheSubOrbiter2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

yeah thats only enough to do essentially whatever the fuck you want, but its not that much.

[–]VancouverSucks1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

Aren't we talking like 9 million dollars here?

[–]Viklove0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

No, it's only about $6 million.

[–]1oldredder0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

in what year? FX fluctuates a lot. The recent multi-year peak of 1.72 usd=1 gbp: far less than 2.25 needed to be 9 mil USD but on the other hand, if this is a story from many more years ago I can't recall but the quid was worth a fair bit more than the dollar.

[–]VancouverSucks1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Aren't we talking like 9 million dollars here?