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Red Pill Theory

"The Talk" is Socially Retarded, Do Not Tolerate It.


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So how many of you would drop this on a woman halfway through a date:

"We need to talk. You're a nice girl, and I like you, but my goal for tonight is to have sex. So we need to talk about whether you're ready for sex, and about what kind of sexual acts you're ready for. Because I deserve sex, and if you're not a sex-minded kind of girl, then I need to not be wasting my time here."


If any one of you raised your hands, then go to the back of the fucking class, and the some gentlemen from the Federal Witless Protection Program will stop by a little later with your helmet and a juicebox.

One of the first principles of TRP is that desire is not voluntary, and cannot be negotiated. And if you've been here more than a few minutes, you know better than to try.

So why would you let a girl get away with doing the same thing? The "Commitment Talk" is nothing but the female version of this clueless screed, an attempt to negotiate or just simply demand her way up the Bitch Management Hierarchy. Tolerate that, and you're the one who's the bitch. Hope you like strap-ons.

If a girl ever hits you with "the talk", her permanent maximum rank is "plate", because your desire isn't voluntary either, and it cannot be negotiated, either. You do not ever want to be in a relationship with a girl who doesn't get that.

When your game is tight, girls will have sex with you and never be conscious of having made a decision to do so... "it just kind of happened". In promoting a girl to LTR, you must not settle for anything less... you hang out with more and more because you want to spend time with her, you visit her when she's sick because you want her to feel better, you take her along on that road trip because you want her there.

A girl who can't make that happen without stopping the flow to make sperglike demands of you isn't worthy. If she cannot infuse you with the positive desire to promote her, she isn't worthy. She has to earn her way up just like anyone else, no matter what she says about herself.

And remember that there is no level 4.

Full fucking stop..

No fucking exceptions..

Do NOT go there.

No matter how much you want to see her smile.

That institution is DEAD.

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist 497 points498 points  (37 children)

"Assume she's showed up because she's looking to get laid. Proceed on this assumption and you'll often make the right moves."


[–]ioncehadsexinapool 174 points175 points  (26 children)

Yeah. I keep telling my friends that. She has FRIENDS for anything she wants. If she’s with you she wants the dick. She doesn’t want to be your “friend” she already HAS friends. Women are for fucking (to men) and before any newbies get their panties in a bunch. women also view men as sex objects the whole reason why there are women and there are men, is that they fuck eachother. Men do social shit with men. Women do social shit with women. Men and women fuck.

Boy do I wish I had a sex drive. I finally understand how all of this shit works and little desire to capitalize on it. I feel like I won the lottery for a currency that doesn’t exist.

[–]Landpomeranze 29 points30 points  (1 child)

Do you know how boring women can be? Many women prefer male friends. Obviously still solid advice to treat every encounter like a potential fuck.

[–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen 21 points22 points  (0 children)

Many women prefer male friends.

I also prefer a bank account with 1mm$...

[–]thebigkick 1 points1 points [recovered]

Glad your satisfied. However, don’t put this in a box and label it. Nothing is so absolute. It’s good to feel enlightened but take it all with a grain of salt and continue.

[–]RasputinGame 2 points3 points  (0 children)

When you think all your bases are covered and there's no room for improvement is when you get fucked hard.

It's worth saying again that there are no absolutes.

[–]tinkerzpy 1 points1 points [recovered]

I do social shit with my wife and I have a high sex drive. Perhaps there's a reverse link somewhere between cynical relations with women and libido. Could be I'm just lucky, though...

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I do social shit

I do social shit with Legal Cohabiting Female, because we are a social pair as seen by others (and being mostly the parents my kids). It is completely disconnected with whatever sex we have.

[–]EdAnt 10 points11 points  (6 children)

Are you lifting weights? Cuz my sex drive was virtually non-existent until I started doing that. Deadlifting works way better than Viagra...

[–]lacaguana 4 points5 points  (4 children)

I started lifting not long ago, had zero sex drive and everything has changed since then, i wouldnt have thought lifting would change this for me so much man

[–]EdAnt 4 points5 points  (3 children)

Same here. Total game changer. This sub has improved my life mentally and physically so fucking much.

[–]ioncehadsexinapool 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Yeah I started lifting 3x a week a little over a month ago. I understand it may take longer to see results. Maybe instead of leg press I should start doing squats?

[–]jupc 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Squats are better for training CNS, balance and coordination, muscular growth, and skeletal loading and bone density improvement.

[–]FeelTheBernieSanderz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Strangely since I started going gym my sex drive has plummeted, like I couldn't give a damn about women and more attracted to self improvement

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 6 points7 points  (3 children)

women also view men as sex objects

How dare you objectify me, shitlord!

Women do social shit with women.

Women want to optimize what they extract from men. Resource collection is near the top of the list of female imperatives. That's the key here. So if they aren't fucking you, they are looking to get something else. Don't play this game, unless you very clearly understand what you get out the deal.

The problem here is most the time unless you are fucking her, you are not getting as much out of the deal are you are putting into it.

[–]Self-honest 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Men are so much more shamelessly competitive than women. Yet, as a whole, we shy away from competing with them directly.

So if they aren't If SHE isn't fucking YOU, they are SHE is looking to get something else.

Even if SHE is fucking you, you are probably giving up more than you are getting.

Don't play this game, unless YOU very clearly understand what YOU get out of the deal.

SHE wants to win.

SHE almost always wins.

SHE absolutely knows what SHE is getting out of the deal.

The problem here is that most of the time, unless YOU are fucking HER, YOU are not getting as much out of the deal as YOU are putting into it.

That's part of the reason why SHE is fucking you so hard.

If SHE is getting more out of the deal than you, SHE will act like someone who knows they can beat the game.

I'm fucking around with formatting. Thanks for indulging me.

Edit: .....formatting

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Men are so much more shamelessly competitive than women.

We are more obvious. Women are absolutely ruthless. I can't count the number of times I've had to intervene on a women under my tree because she was about to poison the well with a group of her associates over the smallest thing. We have big horns to lock and it makes a big show. They bang their heads against each other more often.

[–]Self-honest 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Agreed. I'm just saying, men don't always see the deal for the competition that it is.

So many men I know want things to be "even." They try to make things 50-50.

When women are competing for a man or his resources, they are truly inspired.

Winning that competition (getting more than her out of the deal) is an important focus to maintain.

It keeps her playing. It shows her you're better than her.

If you can't beat your girl, how can you beat anyone else? If she can beat you this easily, she will find a better challenge.

[–]s0undwave 1 points1 points [recovered]

Why don't you have a sex drive?

[–]ioncehadsexinapool 22 points23 points  (6 children)

High stress and shitty life situation years ago zapped my emotions and drive. Been struggling ever since.

[–]follow_that_rabbit 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Lift man, get a hormone check and most importantly set your diet.

Understanding game is worth nothing if you don't strive to become the best version of yourself.

[–]justgotalpha 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I also dont have a sex drive and to be honest it has its advantages i dont think of sex much and i have rejected women and not give a fuck..but its coming back to hunt me as i dont have much drive for other things ,im focusing on building a business now ..will get my T levels and try to get it back to normal

[–]Smigg_e 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That or she at least wants to want to fuck you.

[–][deleted] 21 points22 points  (0 children)

One of the better quotes I’ve heard

[–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I thought that quote sounded familiar. Thanks for the attribution.

[–]deville05 3 points4 points  (5 children)

Well aziz ansari did that and that backfired. I think "you will make the right moves" is going to mislead a lot of people. The moves have to be learnt and figured so that you don't get regret the sex rape accusations

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 10 points11 points  (2 children)

Well aziz ansari did that and that backfired

He got his dick sucked. She became the feminist pariah. Everyone already knew he was sniveling derp. The only real state change here for him is he got his dick sucked, so I'm putting that in the win column.

[–]deville05 -1 points0 points  (1 child)

yeah but she didnt leave there wanting more or happy and he suffered in the social spectrum. thats the opposite of win

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 2 points3 points  (0 children)

he suffered in the social spectrum

Sort of where he started.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Aziz knew she wasn’t interested. We all know when a woman isn’t interested, unless your ego is super fragile. At that point he should’ve kicked her out or been ok with it and truly netflix and chilled.

But instead he added like a soft little puppy and was embarrassed in front of the whole world by some snowflake who wasn’t even brave enough to be non anon.

[–]deville05 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

blame is on her.. but my point is that he made the "wrong moves". all im trying to say is that "you will make the right moves" isnt true. the right moves need to be learnt and caliberated.

[–]VeganMcVeganface 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Basically the same quote as the one from Hitch.

[–]Ketogainsmongoose 4 points4 points [recovered]

A man's fundamental strength is derived from his ability to walk away.

From anyone.

From anything.

At any time.

For any reason.

Or for no reason at all.

If you tie a ball and chain around your leg, don't be surprised if you can't fly.

[–]JagsDontCare 46 points47 points  (7 children)

This reminds me of the “30 seconds” scene between Dinero and Al Pacino in the movie HEAT.

[–]jamesdeandomino 33 points34 points  (2 children)

"Don't get attached to anything you can't walk away from in 3 seconds"

[–]JagsDontCare 17 points18 points  (1 child)

[–]jamesdeandomino 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Woops. Dropped the zero



[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (3 children)

Just looked up the scene, will give it a watch. Powerful stuff.

[–]JagsDontCare 5 points6 points  (0 children)

The movies good. But that scene always resonates with me especially in situations where quick, deliberate decisions need to be made. Enjoy.

[–]PS2Errol 3 points4 points  (1 child)

One of the best films ever.

[–]In33dmon3yz -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Good movie wouldnt go that far tho

[–]ioncehadsexinapool 11 points12 points  (1 child)

This is why I’ll soon be self employed.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

We're on the same page. Bought a travel trailer to live in and will be buying 40 acres up north in the next 5 years.

[–]modLegendOfTheFrontier[M] 10 points11 points  (1 child)

This point cannot be emphasised enough. It is the most powerful card in your hand, your attention.

I've flicked through your other posts and you clearly have something to contribute. Time to start working on some posts.

I'm awarding you a point for this. Simple, clear, yet vital.

[–]hematite4galena 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sounds like this was gold but the account and the comment have vanished. Are there any leads on recovering what this was?

[–]LightBasileus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You are the one who just opened my eyes to realize I have been chaining myself. I have been chained to my best friend for years because I didn't want to lose him even though he and I do not share values and beliefs. I have been giving him all the power in the relationship. Hes a natural Alpha and I have been his bitch for too long. Now I know what I need to do. Thank you.

[–]CaptainBW 1 points1 points [recovered]

Damn. Been thinking about changing up living situations recently..moving out and on with my life. This comment hit me. Thank you.

[–]dzkkne 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Completely agree with you man.

Just for reference: I am 26 and over the last year I have learned the most how to walk away from tings: from gf, friends, some family and other stuff. Saying no to things is how you gain traction with reality and actually realise your worth by only doing and engaging with things that matter to you.

Now, understand me correctly - walking away or saying no doesn’t mean permanently (like in family situations for example) but at that moment when you say no - you add more value to you actions. You should especially practice saying no and walking away to yourself - i.e I want something - but I not gonna let myself do it or get it - because I have control over what I want and do.

Say no and keep walking and then see how you feel about it.

[–]midgetpooooo 38 points39 points  (0 children)

I've had this "talk" brought up a bunch of times with different girls. It was always the same:

  • go out several times, have a great time, have sex etc
  • at the end of another date or after sex she says variations of these: "What are we...? Do you even like me? I want to be exclusive with you."

Everytime I go: "Hey, I like you/I'm having a lot of fun spending time with you, let's just see where this goes and we'll see what happens."

Then back to normal for a long time until it may happen again lol.

One girl said this to me and she was well worth it to engage in a LTR in exchange for her constant submissiveness so that was the only time I said what I said, but actually remained loyal to her.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 64 points65 points  (10 children)

This is a sexual strategy sub, so the point is not to label the talk as a dumb thing (which it is), the point is to handle that talk to get what you want out of it.

A girl who can't make that happen without stopping the flow to make sperglike demands of you isn't worthy

Absolutely. If she has to verbalise it, she's either demanding too much or not good enough or both... and it should be answered in her own language, ie: "I don't like to discuss these things verbally, I find it's best to let things take their natural course according to how we both feel".

(You can think, but do not say ".... because I keep my word and you likely won't")

[–]CommanderCumlord 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Wow this thread is eye opening for me in a way. My practice to this point has been to never vocalize commitment. Just keep letting her come to me and then I fuck her. So technically if she is doing things for me and I am acknowledging her, then I figured eventually a woman would be at an emotional threshold where she spilled she needed commitment.

So what we’re actually saying is some girls are doing things to show they are worthy of commitment/investment, but others will show it through their actions? (watch what they do not say...I know I’m stupid)

For example I’ve been seeing a girl for 3-4 months. On v-day she asked me to come over, bought me a gift, and cooked me dinner with no complaint. When she came the over day, she made up my bed for me when I was in the other room before she left. She invited me to an event with all of her friends next weekend and bought my ticket. Just a couple of things as of recent, but are these actions just examples of her steadily increasing commitment in her own way? I have actually pulled back on taking her out as of recent and stuff while she is doing more.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Just a couple of things as of recent, but are these actions just examples of her steadily increasing commitment in her own way?


[–]The_Vaguest_Pond 1 points1 points [recovered]

Slightly off topic but thought I’d chime in; while I agree with your points, be weary of labelling this sub as a “sexual strategy sub”.

Yes, most posts on here ease towards that direction, but the Red Pill at its core is about achieving maximum potential and living life on easy mode as a man - ranging in topics from lifting, to meditation, to how to present yourself in social situations, and everything in between. Most posts do indeed tie back in to sexual strategy, but don’t forget the underlying message is to improve ourselves as men in all aspects of life.

[–]1handfulofnuts 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Sidebar, motherfucker. This is a sexual strategy sub. It doesn’t change just because you think it is or should be something else.

[–]Do not send modmail to my personal inboxCrazyHorseInvincible[M] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Not your call.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

(You can think, but do not say ".... because I keep my word and you likely won't")

Well, that's the main point...

(You think you pine for what you are asking — but you only pine for a demonstration that you have the power to have me consent to your request. Soon as I consent, your lack of real interest on the request's object will show.)

[–]0attr -3 points-2 points  (2 children)

haha "I don't like to discuss these things verbally." HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

What kind of dumbass chicks are you working with where that bullshit will fly.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

What kind of dumbass chicks are you working with where that bullshit will fly

The ones with vaginas

[–]2Dmva100 70 points71 points  (6 children)

Whenever you have a girl that you are plating  (this is booty call only, none of the other shit) for 1-2 months or more, and she 'all of a sudden' 'wants something more' you best believe there is a new guy in the picture.  If a plate genuinely wanted something more with you, she would gradually make it happen over time via investment.  If a plate voices this out of nowhere, 1 of 2 scenarios is in play and it is up to YOU to not be the sucker.  Once again, all responsibility on us  (in her eyes)

1.  She found a new guy that is more AF than you (she is just a booty call to you at this point), and she is trying to get 'something more' with you, which really means be my BB.


2.  She found a BB or a boyfriend, but wishes you could do those things that he does so she doesn't have to be sexually pluralistic.

In either scenario, if you lose frame and show a shred of committment YOU become the BB.  If you show commitment, she will:

Scenario 1:  Keep fucking the new Alpha guy and be his booty call, while you become BB boyfriend.

Scenario 2:  She will get your committment, NEXT the BB guy she just met, so you are now her committed lesser Alpha, and she goes on to swipe tinder for the next unattainble AF.

You lose either way.  Unless you hold frame, which will almost certainly result in her leaving anyway (So you still lose her), but if you go NC, she will reinitiate at a later date and try again after her strategy fails on other men.

[–][deleted] 44 points45 points  (1 child)

1-2 months or more, and she 'all of a sudden' 'wants something more' you best believe there is a new guy in the picture.  If a plate genuinely wanted something more with you, she would gradually make it happen over time via investment.

It bums me out that a lot of blue pill dudes probably jump for joy at the moment she brings up the talk thinking that he found "the one" (face palm). Oh well, we've all been there haven't we lol...

[–]Merwebb 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's a long road

[–]Bear-With-Bit 13 points14 points  (1 child)

Or perhaps Scenario 3: She's hitting the wall, needs a Beta to show off to her gfs, coworkers, family, etc, to validate she is worth the investment from a BB. A necessary lifestyle accessory at this point.

[–]OneCovah 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"needs a Beta to show off to her gfs, coworkers, family, etc, to validate she is worth the investment from a BB" precisely, and I wish more were made of this on Red Pill. Women come on to guys to show them off for the reasons you list. No man would do so, it a natural behavior for women and something a young man needs to learn. Let's say at a party a lady asks your name then introduces you to her friends then tells you to get lost, and you stand there thinking, what was that about? Or a girl comes on to you, real friendly, then tells her boyfriend you are bothering her and he come over and tries to pick a fight and you are standing there wondering who ARE these people?

[–]BurnoutRS 47 points48 points  (4 children)

Man nothing dries up panties more than turning foreplay into a legal procedure. When was the last time you saw a chick at the bank doing some paperwork and she just go so turned on she jumped on the dude helping her open her account?

Alright and so I will initiate kissing beginning with closed mouth for approximately 45 seconds at which point I may attempt to slip in my tongue. During the tongue phase I request that my hands be allowed to linger near your breasts for no longer than 3 seconds at a time. Should your vagina acchieve a moisture level of 50% relative humidity within 2 minutes of tongue kissing then I request that you rub my dick through my pants a minimum of 3 times...

[–]Secretalias666 5 points6 points  (1 child)

45 seconds of closed mouth kissing? I didn't know closed mouth kissing was even a thing that was done as part of a seduction ritual. I thought they were for your aunties and shit?

45 seconds is an eternity.

[–]BurnoutRS 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yeah I got a tad hyperbolic with that one. I think I meant kissing with no tongue

[–]MyDickFellOff 94 points95 points  (6 children)

A girl dropped this talk on me. 'Blabla, I like how our date is going, I'd like yo see you agian, but I am not ready to have sex yet, let's keep it easygoing. '.

I completely went cold with my attention and told her I would be leaving. When she asked why, I told her that she lost my atttaction for her by 'not making it exciting and fun' anymore.

Less than an hour later I fucked her ass, like I paid for it.

Never saw her agian.

[–]Galaldriel 26 points27 points  (1 child)

If they talk about sex (even if in the negative), they're thinking about sex. Well played

[–]Steve_O-- 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Every single time I have hear the words from a woman "we're not having sex tonight" I end up having sex with her that night. Like clockwork!

[–]Bear-With-Bit 20 points21 points  (0 children)

Head nod of approval, golf clap.

[–]Steve_O-- -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Slow clap........ well played, sir! well played.

[–]Endorsed ContributorThotwrecker 24 points25 points  (30 children)

This is all absolutely true, but the best way to deal with any attempts at wrangling out commitment and defining the transactional nature of the relationship is to not take it seriously.

It's just a stupid shit test, just like any others, and the goal is to suss out how beta you really are. Because deep down she knows if you are willing to commit to her, you aren't really all that cool, are you?

That's it, it's just an opportunity to have fun. I don't view it as a black mark against her, because she is SUPPOSED to push for commitment, just like I am supposed to push for sex. Being mad at women for wanting your lifestyle and the perks of being your boyfriend is silly; she is not conscious of what's really going on, she's just doing what she believes she's supposed to do.

It's absolutely true that if she fucks before she gets commitment, she loses and she's probably going to be a slampiece.

It IS absolutely a battle of value; the higher value individual will cave. But that battle doesn't have to be all logical and sperglike and serious - it's a fun vibe, it's fucking hilarious to watch girls try to mentally deal with falling into the slutzone.

We have to have the self-awareness to understand that the slutzone is not a good place for the girl to be, she should want to jump out of there. We, subscribing to masculine values believe that she should earn her way out and climb out through her merits, but the world isn't an RPG or a career or any of these masculine ecosystems. She can insist she deserves to be X, and if enough people buy into it, she is X. That is how her mind works, that's how the feminine value system works. If enough people buy into it...

So she will at some point try to get you to buy into the notion that she's wife material. This means she knows youre better than her and she's trying to lock you down.

Fine. Accept it and don't take it seriously. Whatever you do, when the talk comes, do not treat it as "real", just fuck around and be self-amused. Don't judge her or hate her for wanting better than she deserves - just acknowledge it as a dynamic and enjoy her giving away even more of her negotiating power by proclaiming her neediness. Then decide coldly and cleanly - is she behaving in a way that you like and can you have fun with her? (IE "cool girl" plate who obviously wants to get upgraded but will play her role for a few weeks at least)? Or is she behaving like an obnoxious entitled cunt who's edging into your personal time and space? Based on her behavior, decide quickly if she's past her expiration date and don't look back.

Nothing women do is really worth being taken seriously, and the talk is one of them.

[–]Retstortion 2 points3 points  (28 children)

My ex cheated on me when I refused “the talk”

How do we win in this situation?

She said she cheated because I did not claim her as my girlfriend when she asked what we are. I explained I wanted to take my time and commitment was implied through our time spent and the intimacy..

[–]2Dmva100 11 points12 points  (2 children)

She was already fucking the said guy. He probably said he would commit, so she checked first to see if you would, and when you didnt, she fucked him again and branch swing, or is looking to branch swing for the relationship part of the deal.

Odds are he won't commit to her now and she'll end up with nothing and that's when she'll beg for you to take her back.

Don't. You'll be become a cuck and in even worse standing than if you had committed in the first place.

[–]Retstortion 7 points8 points  (1 child)

I got her pregnant before I found out. Will dna test at birth.

[–]hammerhearth 1 point2 points  (0 children)

whys trp so against using condoms?

[–]Endorsed ContributorThotwrecker 4 points5 points  (9 children)

"I explained I wanted to take my time and commitment was implied through (past commitment behaviors)"

This is terrible masculine logic. Women don't keep a spreadsheet of past times where you proved commitment. She cheated on you because IN THAT MOMENT, the other guy offered something she wanted, and in that moment she could have her cake and eat it too. What you did for her in the past? Irrelevant and actually, it's non-existent too.

Women don't have memory in the spreadsheet sense - there's no "balance" being maintained.

You wanted to give her your commitment and have her commit to you, but you read on TRP that this was a bad idea. So you held off and plated her.

Well, you play cuck games, you win cuck prizes. Now you got cucked - you know logically she didn't owe you fidelity since you weren't in a relationship with her, but you still FEEL cucked because you FEEL like you two had this understanding of commitment and fidelity.

I know this sounds like I'm just being a dick for no reason, but think about it - you wanted to play the game like an alpha, but you ALSO wanted your beta comforts.

If you want to play the game like an alpha, you have to actually deep down not give a shit about what she does. If you want to be in a conventional BP LTR relationship, then have the talk, be GF/BF, and just accept the consequences of a modern LTR. Me, I think that shit is pathetic, but if you're the type of guy to get all butthurt when a plate "cheats" on you, then you're not cut out for plating.

You're trying to plate girls with a dating mentality - this is why I say play cuck games, get cuck prizes. You want to LTR the hoes, LTR them. It's your own headache. If you want to fuck them and have them as your FWB, then you can't claim exclusive rights to their pussy. Now don't get me wrong, you should absolutely cut the bitch out if she disrespects, and if you think this is disrespect, then 100% you need to hard next. But don't be butthurt about it, you played yourself.

[–]Retstortion 0 points1 point  (8 children)

I’m going to disagree with you. Whether I’m plating her or not, if she is dating me not officially as a gf or whatever, and she sleeps with someone else, she cheated.

I don’t see any reasonable circumstance where a man should accept sharing a woman unless he’s a faggot or fuckingg someone’s wife.

[–]PreOrgasmGroanLness 5 points6 points  (7 children)

She did not cheat because she did not promise you anything.

Monogamy isn't some implied default state of the world, dude.

[–]Retstortion 0 points1 point  (6 children)

Again, she proved she’s a whore. I have been with plenty of women who would never see more than one man at a time.

If your standards are so low that you feel it’s okay to potentially LTR a woman who would fuck you then another man simply because of an “unofficial” LTR status, you’re a cuck

[–]PreOrgasmGroanLness 0 points1 point  (5 children)

It's a covert contract, that doesn't fare well

As for LTRs, I'm non-monogamous, so I dislike covert contracts more than anything else. I don't want women to assume I'm mono with them just because they're mono. I don't want them to be surprised either. I think those covert contracts are bad coz they hurt people who have a different worldview than yours since you're projecting your own upon them. It's akin to your gay male friend who hangs out with you for whatever reasons, meanwhile expecting you to hit on him (he's gay therefore everyone's gay, right?), then feels disrespected when you don't. It's solipsism and you're the gay male friend in that scenario. Covert contracts.

[–]Retstortion 0 points1 point  (4 children)

It was not a contract. If a woman I spend time with, go to dinner with, meets my friends and I meet hers; monogamy is implied. If she felt none of those actions justified some sort of commitment, she is not LTR material.

A woman who lays with a man among other things freely without a sense of belonging or purpose is a whore. Her excuse for cheating does not hold up.

Your standards are your own. I judge a woman based on her actions unrestricted. If she behaves without my requests to behave, acts a certain way while seeing me I may upgrade to LTR.

It’s not a wild concept. We have our own desires and motivation for things. If she felt she was comfortable being with me “uncommitted” and sleeping with another man at the same time she is not what I’m looking for.

I stated above, plenty of women who can be loyal without asking her to. Covert contracts may lead to disappointment yes but I will never force a woman to fight her hyperamy for me. If her natural inclinations are to be loyal to me without me asking, she will eventually get LTR status.

I will never ask a woman to commit to me. She will do so on her own because she wants to. If she doesn’t want to;sleeps with someone else while with me in any condition, she’s gone. Have some self respect

[–]Mr-Ed209 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Couldn't agree more with your stance. I'm all for understanding women and embracing their nature to a degree (wait for them to commit) etc. It seems some people just go to far with trying to justify the complexities of 'plating' etc. Just look at the (normally pretty well argued) people tying themselves in loops with their arguments here.

I hate the phrase 'covert contract' - as OP says the reason you don't do 'the talk' is because it's weak and slightly spergic. If you want to be with somebody you imply it through your actions - as a man do it from a masculine place and lead. As a woman be feminine and don't fuck other people. Both people give it a reasonable length of time before accepting some form of commitment from one another.

This whole 'I did it because we hadn't talked about what we were' is bullshit. Any person who buys that as a legitimate argument is missing the point and any women who makes that statement either never had enough interest in you, or has frankly bigger issues than are worth dealing with.

[–]Retstortion 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Exactly. If anyone needs to explicitly state “HEY WE ARE A COUPLE” in order to prevent the person from fucking someone, guess what, they weren’t that into you. Fuck that other noise.

[–]PreOrgasmGroanLness 0 points1 point  (1 child)


My problem is with definition of the word commitment. I don't consider monogamy commitment. Commitment is commitment. Are swinger couples non-commited to each other? Are people in OLTRs not commited to each other?

These questions are irrelevant, though. You've got your own standards. Although, I wouldn't go as far to say she "cheated" on you. She didn't, because she didn't promise you anything. Your standards being monogamy implied in "commitment" say she's not worthy of a LTR, I find this perfectly fine. But to call it "cheating" is just dumb. I've never cheated on a woman and never will, simply because I don't promise things I will not hold up to. But if I were to be called a "cheater", I beg to differ, I didn't promise you anything, honey. Now that's disrespectful.

[–]Retstortion 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’m listening and agree with you partly, with your definition of commitment.

Can you say you are a loyal committed employee if you have 2 jobs? If you are working 40 hours with one and 25 with another, can you say you are committing to both? If one of those employers find out you’re sharing your efforts and time with another employer, you are a risk to him. A employer needs to know his investment is long term.

The same applies to dating. If a woman I do not establish “commitment” with shares her time with another man while also sharing time with me, she is a high risk prospect. She does not value me or my time enough and the excuse “we weren’t official” is just justification for flakiness and overt hypergamy.

[–]i_forget_my_userids 6 points7 points  (8 children)

Can't consider it cheating if she's not your girlfriend. She's right.

She isn't your ex because she was never your girlfriend. She was just some chick you dated.

[–]Retstortion -3 points-2 points  (7 children)

We were a couple for a year.

[–]i_forget_my_userids 1 point2 points  (6 children)

And yet you just said she wasn't your girlfriend at that time. It's not cheating if she's not your girlfriend.

[–]adirp 1 points1 points [recovered]

How do we win in this situation?

You already won.

You managed to avoid a relationship with someone who has no sense of loyalty, and uses technicalities to sleep with others. If you were in a LTR with her, she is the type of person who, during a fight or a break, will sleep with another man. She will then tell you that's "technically" not cheating since she was single for that period of time.

If she truly valued you and wanted to be your girlfriend, to earn your commitment, she wouldn't have slept with anyone else.

That's a win in my book, mate. Good riddance.

[–]Retstortion -3 points-2 points  (2 children)

She’s pregnant. With my kid. We’re no contact right now.

I don’t think I won.

[–]FinancialMagus 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I wouldn't bet that its your kid at this point bro

[–]bidextralhammer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Give it two years so you know the person if you want to commit. Marriage is supposed to be for a long time. There's only so long someone can pretend who they are. If she can't wait two years, dump her ass fast. Her cheating excuse was total bs. If a woman wants you and sees a future, she won't cheat.

[–]Cheeseking11 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

You win because she ruled herself out

[–]Self-honest -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Or is she behaving like an obnoxious entitled cunt who's edging into your personal time and space?

People need to hammer this into their heads.

Based on her behavior

Actions alone, words mean nothing.

decide quickly if she's past her expiration date and don't look back.

Value your time. Make your decision. Don't talk about it. Don't listen to what she has to say. It's all made up bullshit to elicit an emotional reaction.

[–]redpilledjoe 11 points12 points  (7 children)

How do you properly enter an LTR

[–]midgetpooooo 18 points19 points  (1 child)

Be sure all your priorities and commitments allow for it, first, then when you go out with a girl like normal and let her fall for you (she asks for LTR, you say let's not put labels on anything just yet and just see where this goes, I'm having a lot of fun spending time with you) and start the LTR naturally you do so because of what the post said already:

In promoting a girl to LTR, you must not settle for anything less... you hang out with more and more because you want to spend time with her, you visit her when she's sick because you want her to feel better, you take her along on that road trip because you want her there.

If you feel you don't see yourself giving a shit about this girl then keep her as a plate. Simple as that. Very few girls are LTR worthy imo. Too much undiscovered drama and damage among many of them.

[–]Viking_RnP 19 points20 points  (0 children)

You don't until you can answer that question for yourself through experience. Remember LTR often means multiple years and isn't just some contract agreement that is suddenly made one random day amongst a period of time while dating.

[–]ECoast_Man 14 points15 points  (1 child)

The biggest point is that "the talk" should never really happen with any degree of confusion. Not one bit.

When it occurs, it should be obvious that "the talk" is merely an afterthought because you've been spending enough time together (and you've done your due diligence on your end), that it's almost a laughable conversation.

The point here is, we don't negotiate with pussy terrorists. We don't give in to commitment under shady or false pretenses.

[–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Jesus Christ, rookie. Read the post. Bitch Management Guide.

We're not sending anyone to come click the link for you.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 3 points4 points  (0 children)

"How do you properly fire the gun into your head"

Because if you are asking that question, you are really asking this question.

[–]Throwawayzzz753 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Anyone who says that first quote irl is a sociopathic neet

[–]Bear-With-Bit 11 points12 points  (0 children)

The only kind of overt communication with women should be for 1) texting logistics for sex, 2) ordering her what to do during sex and 3) departure.

"Come over if you want, I'm just chilling at home. Bring some food if you can."

"Get on your knees. Open your mouth."

"You gonna get an Uber?"

The better you are at this, the less you have to communicate overtly.

[–]Kinbaku_enthusiast 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It worked fine for feynmann, but you don't have to be long winded about it.

[–]Michael_Negron 1 point2 points  (0 children)




[–]RedPill_Swinger 1 point2 points  (0 children)

TRP is getting too poloticised. The risk is to shift from a sheer sexual strategy sub to a trad con sub. There are alternatives to resurrecting the institution of marriage.

Someone in the linked threads said that marriage is a mutually beneficial strategy since we both voluntarily renounce our imperatives in exchange for a safe haven where we are able to rise our children and basically give a fair alternative both to women and men.

Well, that's a lose-lose strategy. We can do like the Etruscan did, everybody was allowed to fuck anybody and children were raised by the mothers and the entire village contributed the resources to raise them properly according to their standards. Or, we can do like the Romans who were all swingers in their own fashion. Obviously that required slaves, but we have the machines now and errrr cheap labour :D

[–]OneCovah 1 point2 points  (1 child)

You talk like that with internet dating. "SWM 35 seeks SWF 25 for LTR" or some such formula, nothing to figure out. Then the details are negotiated- Do you read books? What is your job? Do you like camping? So if one turns out to be a 300 lb diabetic on welfare, then hit delete and that's that.

Nice girls do not go to bars to get laid. Nice girls are going to use the internet as an intermediary to screen for chumps. Nice guys do not go to bars to find girls. They too will use the internet to screen. Craigslist has personals you can screen for free, for raw data, and there are many other internet dating sites. Nothing new here- 100, 200 years ago personals in newspaper "Gentleman seeking lady" then correspond via postal service.

Bar, who said bar? Okay, take a painting class at your local community college to meet girls, then chat them up. Really? How awkward. Better to post your resume on Match.com and eHarmony or any number of sites listed on wikipedia then correspond safely and conveniently.

"The talk" and "frame" and "shit tests" etc. are all important but why waste them on a bar floozy. Use those concepts to maintain a relationship.

[–]Rhynocobear 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I want to agree, but im not really experienced enough to draw any conclusions. However ive assumed something similar, so I'll keep my eyes open for clarity

[–]Red_Faust 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Good post. Agreed with everything.

When I start receiving "the talk" I start investing less in that specificic MTRL since I know she's going to get pushier down the road.

Once, to a very specific and tech-minded MTLR I had to verbalize something similar to the content of your post. So she was kinda blue-pilly herself. But she got it fast and upped up her feminine game and lasted a long time (> 2 years on my rotation, with special privileges).

Beware also of the boling frog. I'm referring to the "you find yourself wanting to spend more time with her".

Some (not all, but definitely some) girls are very good at this game. They show the facade of a perfect LTR, in my case with FFM threesomes and all.

I could ever ask was there in the shape of a woman, with no apparent demands other than spending time with her and nailing her good.

Then, when they "feel" they are the only ones, they step up their betaization game. AWALT of course.

That was my last mono LTR and decided they are really not for me. But I digress.

Beware of the boiling frog situation and be aware of girl game. If you find yourself wanting her to be around all the time, ask yourself why, and think if you really want to handle to only one provider all your supply of pussy.

[–]Magnum256 0 points1 point  (0 children)

girl who can't make that happen without stopping the flow to make sperglike demands of you

Well said dude, and what's more, why would any rational person want to force demands? It's like saying "well I know you don't love me, but just pretend you do so we can continue this relationship", what the fuck?

[–]vitamann 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The "Commitment Talk" is nothing but the female version of this clueless screed

Sentences like this are gold

[–]ThatKidinAfrica -1 points0 points  (4 children)

Can someone explain this to me? What's the problem if someone wants to take the relationship to the next level?

[–]RedRevolver 1 points1 points [recovered]

He's talking about the "talk" specifically. When a women initiates the "talk" out of the blue, that is the female equivalent of a dude saying the statement at the top on a date.

Kind of a big turn off right?

The talk should never have to happen, he's saying that if your relationship truly is at that level, you'll have slowly progressed to that point without ever having to "clarify things" or make it "official" or anything.

In other words, at that point you both know it's a thing without ever having had to have the "talk".

AWALT. Don't have a talk. Keep your options open and just enjoy whatever you've got at the time.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It isn't a problem but since it's a test, you can fail miserably and drop your plate. She's trying to initiate a relationship

[–]0attr -1 points0 points  (0 children)

These dudes are not coming from a place where they are ready to have relationships yet. Follow their advice as your own risk.

[–]zyqkvx 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Excellent Post. Also, Excellent that a legit redpiller is wise enough to drop a link to one of the many solid posts from years ago. Please drop more. I know there were many old posts I meant to save because they offered actionable development, but I no longer remember what they were and don't know how to dig them up. If some one knows how to systematically do that, please explain to me the process. I'm sure others could appreciate this as well.

[–]FinallyRed 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It’s been a while since we’ve had a good old BP brigade. Probably indicates something about this post.

[–]addwater 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh boy.

I really hope men out there aren't actually using this line or anything similar and this is just all one big joke.

I can't think of a more perfect line that effectively would dry a woman up quicker.

We KNOW women are emotional creatures and act in the now, so why in the fuck would anyone try and logic their way into sex like this.

Closing a fuck is no different to closing a sale.

Just be on top of your game and it will happen ORGANICALLY.

As others have said, assume she's meeting you because she's sexually frustrated.

[–]theDukesofSwagger 1 point2 points  (3 children)

What’s the meaning behind “Plate” and where did it originate from?

Why am I being downvoted? I legit don’t know what it means

[–]CapsaicinKing 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Why am I being downvoted? I legit don’t know what it means

Because you legit didn't read the sidebar.

[–]fishinatot 0 points1 point  (0 children)

read the sidebar

[–]Avskygod0 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

performers juggling plates i guess

[–]Ananonguy88 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I haven't met a single bitch that even deserved to be promoted beyond plate. After honeymoon phase they usually do something that fucks things up, like disrespecting me, checking my boundaries, selling obvious bullshit, and thus they lose any ability to infuse me with good feelz anymore. It just not "does it" anymore, even if they tryhard to fix it, but usually they don't because they think they are special enough to be spoiled and forgiven like they used to be treated by all orbiters and beta needy boyfriends before. I become bored, disappointed, annoyed by her presence and ready to next, even if I had strong oneitis a month ago. Maybe I'm too picky or easily discouraged, but isn't it what's abundance is about? I don't want to waste time on scolding the bitch how she should behave, I think nexting is a better solution still.

[–]OneCovah 0 points1 point  (0 children)

'honeymoon phase", a good term for an relationship that is euphoric at first then deteriorates.

A man is like a crab that scuttles along and a woman is like an angel floating in the clouds of her conceit. A man to catch a woman has to rise up and perform the mating dance and a woman to maintain a relationship has to control her conceit. In your case, the woman has given up controlling her conceit becasue the man has lost his novelty value and become just another guy.

The female equivalent is when her bad boy lover who was so cool gets drunk and beats her up. She wonders why all men are so vulgar after she has turned down in disgust dozens of gentlemen would would treat her with respect.

You "become bored, disappointed, annoyed by her presence and ready to next" and not bother with the mating dance anymore, you do not play her games, you walk away and if you are married, buy yourself a sports car. You never "scold the bitch" because she will not change, it's up to you to remedy by departure.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (2 children)

WTF is The Talk. This is by far the most autistic piece of text I have ever read. Christ...

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

It's basically the point where she asks "what are we"

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Nope. Shes asks that when you've been sleeping together for a while.

[–]Milkandpeppers00 -1 points0 points  (2 children)

Everyone that is subbed here is socially retarded

[–]Tallsmarthandsome 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Especially the black and jewish omes

[–]Milkandpeppers00 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Especially you, you fucking dipshit

[–]Leonidas_79 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Christ I wouldn’t have even dropped that when I barely knew how to talk to women.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

"I feel like we like each other, we'll see where it goes and there's no rush"

Another great one girls say is "our connection based on sex" -- just say "nope". Make it as if she's the one that feels that way

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I'll have to read the links later,

But to the written content, I go, "YUP"

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

furthermore, any type of commitment a man gives can be revoked at will.

Unconditional love is slavery

[–]stylesm11 -4 points-3 points  (1 child)

many training commands pressure us really hard to have talk, it's really sad man