~ archived since 2018 ~

Of Reason and Red Pill Women

Black Label Logic
July 6, 2018

An interesting digression on Red Man Group in the past few weeks was the discussion the role of women in the red pill sphere. I’ve somewhat taken a “I don’t care that much” position on the topic, however we do have some data-points on what happens when women enter male spaces. At first their desire is just to be included in the dialogue and to contribute, then they start slowly changing the space to become more “female friendly“, which generally means less directness, more speech and behavior policing. The next step is to slowly convert the space from being goal-directed and focused on the task, into a niche sexual market place where they can take a leading position and make it about what women need. We saw a very clear example of this in gaming, where it went from “We just want to play too“, that became “Stop being mean to people who aren’t good at the game“, to “Be less competitive” to “Stop designing all games for men“.

The trouble with women entering male spaces is that it’s impossible for women to not make the space about their perceptions, needs and desires. Any man who has ever had a woman move into his place is aware of this process. It starts with a toothbrush, then a drawer in the dresser, then suddenly there are pillows everywhere, the color scheme is filled with soft pastels, the beer signs are in the garage along with your favorite chair, and you’re not sure where 50 – 80% of your stuff went, and where the stuff that is in your house now came from. What used to be your castle, a place built around your needs, wants and desires, a place to retire when you just wanted to be you for a while, is now…. something else, it has become a feminine space.

The Red Pill is about helping men be better men so that they can be empowered to live the life they desire for themselves. not for other people. This is where the red pill is distinct from other groups that operate in adjacent spaces, to The Red Pill making better men and men who are able to live fulfilling lives on their own terms and according to their own aspirations is an end in itself. The “Trad-con“-sphere utilize many red pill methods to build better men, but their primary goal isn’t to enable men to live the lives they desire, it is to build a tribe for themselves of like-minded men to maintain western civilization and the sanctity of monogamous marriage. Jordan B. Peterson for all his great ideas, isn’t about the men he tells to clean up their rooms and stand up straight, he is about ensuring that they become good husbands and fathers that will maintain order by raising the next generation and thus serve as barriers to chaos.

A Voice For Men and The Good Man project are not about creating better men, in the case of the latter they are about creating better plow-horses, in the case of the former, they are about ensuring that the plow horses are fed, get to see a vet once in a while and can stay in the stable when it rains. The Red Pill doesn’t care if you just want to give your dead bedroom marriage CPR or whether you want to lay more pipe across pristine Eastern European territories than Gazprom, that part is up to you.

Now, I think women can serve a purpose in the red pill, some are great case studies for the concepts of hypergamy, solipsism, the timeline of female sexual market value and many other things. Women who are able to maintain long-term relationships with high value males can serve as examples to other women of what is required to do so. Some women make great cautionary tales for younger women, about what happens when you fall victim to the grass-is-greener fallacy. However, we must always be mindful of the simple fact that for women a man will always be a means to her end, not an end in himself.

Of Female Contributors

I find it interesting that some men staunchly support the inclusion of women as contributors to the red pill, and the red pill knowledge base, because to me this is a clear sign that such men have neglected one core maxim and one core concept on which the theory rests. Game was founded on the simple observation that men have been sold a map to happiness and self-actualization filled with errors, furthermore that the only way that they could change their lot in life was to burn the map and continue on without it. To explore the world through their own eyes, without the rose-colored glasses they had been fitted with as children and by burning the scripts they have been given. This is known in the short version as “Don’t listen to what she says, watch what she does“.

This is why many of our fundamental maxims and principles are about such things as putting yourself first, having solid boundaries, frame control, and rejecting the comfortable lies for the uncomfortable truths.

Don’t listen to what she says, watch what she does.

This was a discovery made by early pick-up artists. The male deductive problem-solving firmware made an observation that when they listened to what women said, and did what women told them to do, they weren’t very successful with women. However, when they observed in the wild what men who were successful with women did, it was often very different from what the women said to do. Most men are raised to utilize classic “Beta game”, which consists of being polite, agreeable, attentive, complimentary, stable, dependable, generous, listening, humble and to focus on her needs.

This is the opposite of what what tends to work, which is being a bit rude, disagreeable, aloof, stingy with compliments, unpredictable, under-investing, distant, narcissistic and egotistical. This is supported by the correlation between levels of narcissism in men and notch count. Of course, there are those who would argue that using notch count as a metric for success in the sexual market place is an error, and that one should use another metric such as successful long-term relationships. However, this is a bit like saying one should judge financial success not on accumulated wealth over time, but on the stability of one’s paycheck.

We jokingly refer to what women say they require of a man in order for him to gain access to intimacy as the 487 bullet-point list, that includes things like humor, good income, listens to her, wants a family, is ready to settle down, wants an equal partner, is sensitive, and emotionally available and so on. These are the descriptors of a classical beta men, and the lists exist as a shit-test. Women want men who “just get it“, offering men a playbook for how to be a guy “who just gets it” would make female mate-classification, and thus hypergamous filtering much more difficult. This is why most women hate game, because it’s a method to by-pass their built-in hypergamous filtering. If we’re fair, many of the early PUA Gurus who helped devise the system through practical field experimentation never stopped being Beta men, but they adopted a behavioral schema that allowed them to slip a lot of shots past the goalie.

This is often why when women admit that game works it comes with the caveat of “Ok, this is correct, the jig is up, now you have to apply game to benefit us and give us the beta with a side of alpha“. The Beta with a side of alpha, is the themepark version of being with an alpha male, a man who allows her a life as an alpha male’s mate, but without the performance requirements, submission, deference, demands and risk. Women will always put their needs first, and their mental firmware is one that acts on the instinctual and emotional then post-hoc rationalizes the action. This is how the same woman who proclaims traditional family values, a dedication to God and Country and states that she would love nothing more than to be a wife and stay at home mother caring for her family can sneak cads into her house 10 minutes after attending a church service without being aware of her own contradictory nature.


Perhaps the most important factor that affects female contributions solipsism. I think this is perhaps one of the least understood concepts in red pill theory. The definition of philosophical solipsism that only one’s own mind can be sure to exist. As an epistemological position, it posits that knowledge of anything outside your own mind is unsure. You cannot know that other minds and in fact the external world exists. However, when we refer to female solipsism, it is often in reference to the female inherent proclivity to being highly self-referential. I tweeted something akin to “A man judges and learns about himself by seeing and experiencing the impact he has on the world, a woman judges and learns about herself by seeing and experiencing the impact the world has on her

This is not to say that women in their entirety lack the ability to interact with the world as independent of their own mind, if that was the case we would have no female programmers, engineers or physicists, as the goal of sciences is to establish reality as independent of the observer. The scientific method exists for this specific purpose, to reduce and ideally negate the influence that the person conducting the observation could have on that which is being observed. It is more to state that in certain contexts, mainly those that involves sexual strategy and intersexual dynamics, women are incapable of knowing fact from fiction from behavior.

Hence how the same women can lavish praise at a cad or playboy one minute, and then tell men that they shouldn’t be cads or playboys, but dependable, loyal, masculine (as she defines it) family men the next. Women follow the script of hypergamy, bang Chad now, prepare Billy for later. There is a reason why 30 days of dread is more effective at fixing a dead bedroom situation than 2 years of marriage counseling.

“Women’s mental point of origin (solipsism) presumes the entire world outside of her agrees with her imperative and mutually shares the importance and priorities of it.” Rational Male – Solipsism II [1]

A woman presumes that a man must better himself for her, in the manner she views as most beneficial in order to best fulfill her needs based on how she has classified him. However this is not a constant state, it’s a dual state, a woman wants both Chad and Billy, the former for breeding stock, the latter for a plow horse. Ideally, she would want them to be the same man, but they cannot be because for him to be both would require him to be a man with multiple personality disorder. Female solipsism is on the most extreme display in women with borderline personality disorder for whom their internal reality is viewed as an accurate representation of reality and all external input is parsed to reflect her internal view of the world.

Summary and Conclusions

To re-iterate my position on women in the red pill, I think the two major aspects that have to be considered are the effect women have on a male space, and how the entry of women into male spaces always transform these spaces from male-primary focused spaces to female-primary focused spaces. Secondly, what added-value do having women included in the space bring to the space? I believe in the red pill as a space by men, for men where the purpose is to help, support and provide men with the knowledge they need, feedback from other men at different points in their journey, to hold them accountable and to share different perspectives on how to become the man one must be to live the life one desires.

I think that inevitably when women are included in a space, the purpose of that space, regardless of what it is, gets subverted to cater to a female primary perspective, and female needs. One does not have to go far to point this out if one analyzes the women who tend to have ambitions about entering the red pill space. One of the things I’ve noticed about these women is that they all tend to follow a certain predictable demographic, age 20 – 45, generally to the right on the political spectrum, churchgoers, proclaim an appreciation for traditional gender roles and have stay-at-home mom aspirations. Men should be masculine, strong, gentlemanly and appreciative of her femininity, the women should be feminine, nurturing, courteous, and appreciative of masculinity (as they define it at that moment). This fits very well with the “tradcon” demographic that is growing within the red pill, for good reason, on the surface if you do not probe in depth they have a lot of things in common, mainly family, God, country and tradition as their cornerstone values.

This group of men  as described in an earlier essay is willing to accept the red pill only insofar that serves as a means to an end to support their utopian vision of traditional monogamous marriage. The women on the other hand are merely fulfilling the hypergamic ideal of building better beta men for when they are ready to step out of the carnival and into comfort. Play with these women at your own risk, but don’t be surprised when the nice, submissive, traditional girl you thought you landed, isn’t really submissive but a person who constantly bottom-tops.

Now, guys, if you need female input on how to be masculine, or female approval of your masculinity, you haven’t killed the Beta. Secondly, how can you reconcile the maxim “Don’t listen to what she says, watch what she does” and the concept of female solipsism, yet still value the female perspective on intersexual dynamics? I don’t make it a habit to curse in my essays (I reserve it for my twitter feed) but gentlemen, you found the red pill because you are fucking addicted to approval and validation in general and female approval and validation in particular. This is the root cause of your problems with women, people do not respect or admire those they can push around, easily manipulate and have wrapped around their little finger, as long as you remain addicted to their approval and validation you are their slave. You can dress to the nines, be 240 at 10% body fat, 6^4 (six-pack, six-feet+, six-figure income and six-inches+) and it still won’t make your life much better if all you did was to change from wanting the approval and validation of all girls in general, to women who proclaim to share your values in particular.

A note:

I recently launched a Patreon page where I will be posting additional content every month for those who support me and I will do a Google Hangout for the highest tier Patrons (limited to 10 people).

I’ve also had some requests for consults, which I’ve declined up until now, but due to demand I’ve chosen to open up for doing some consults on request. For details please check out my Consulting and Patreon Page

As always you can buy my book Gendernomics at Amazon.com as both paperback and Kindle

I will be on with the Red Man Group discussing dangerous personalities in women on Saturday 11 AM Est on Youtube (https://t.co/lATglcm36Y)

Anthony Johnson of the 21 Convention will be our host (@Beachmuscles)

Guest include:

Rollo Tomassi of The Rational Male (@Rationalmale)

Donovan Sharpe of The Sharpe Reality (@Donovansden)

Dr Shawn T. Smith of docsmith.co (@Ironshrink)

and possibly Rich Cooper of Entrepreneurs in Cars (@Rich_cooper)


[1] https://therationalmale.com/2015/09/09/solipsism-ii/

TheRedArchive is an archive of Red Pill content, including various subreddits and blogs. This post has been archived from the blog Black Label Logic.

Black Label Logic archive

Download the post

Want to save the post for offline use on your device? Choose one of the download options below:

Post Information
Title Of Reason and Red Pill Women
Author Black Label Logic
Date July 6, 2018 12:10 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Blog Black Label Logic
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/blog/Black-Label-Logic/of-reason-and-red-pillwomen.24164
Original Link https://blacklabellogic.com/2018/07/06/of-reason-and-red-pill-women/
You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

© TheRedArchive 2022. All rights reserved.
created by /u/dream-hunter