And by the way, to OP or anyone else reading this, you don't have to do any of this shit. This is a lot of work. This is inverting someone's request to share your emotional burden, and instead expressing that you're willing to take on more of theirs. And yet you give them some conscious deniability that their being the magnanimous one, since this is all framed as their willingness to listen to your vulnerabilities. If you have a loved one who is depressed about some loss and ask them how they're doing, they'll probably respond with, "I mean, it sucks. But whatever. Thanks for asking, but you don't need to deal with the shit in my head." You can just say, "OK buddy, hang in there." Or you can do this exact technique. Yeah, I mean, I can't imagine how you feel. I know you were really close to your uncle, and his passing... jesus. It's like you have family, and you have friends, and there's the rare people in our lives that are BOTH, and sometimes you don't realize it until it's gone. It's almost like you're suffering two losses. Fuck.
And your friend may say: "I know, right? I mean, I still remember learning how to make a fire with him when I was 8. And then going on camping trips with him almost every summer after I graduated high school. Look, my dad is a great guy, but everything I knew about the outdoors was my uncle. He was a parent figure, but then he was a friend, in a way your parents will never be, I guess."
And, oh look, he's letting you deal with the shit in his head, and maybe he feels 1% better about everything after this conversation, now that he has a little more of a grasp about why he's feeling this deep melancholy that's unique, because his uncle was a unique individual, who was uniquely close to him in ways than his parents and friends will never be. And yet he doesn't feel the embarrassment he would if he asked you, "can I just ramble about why I'm depressed so you can help me figure it out?"
Look, let me very clear here. What I'm describing here is a very powerful tool, that you pretty much want to break out only for the people in your life that truly, actually, deserve it. If done right, it can be one of the most powerful things anyone can do as a "good friend" or a "good husband." If your wife is shitty, you don't have to do this. You don't have to do anything. But while we love to say "IDGAF" and "STFU," consider the range of human emotions and interactions is broad enough that you can express empathy without being a crying little bitch. Conversely, if you find yourself constantly thinking -- I don't even know what she's hysterical about, I don't know if this is a Shit or a Comfort Test, but whatever, IDGAF so I'm gonna STFU -- well, personally, I think it's suboptimal to do this. In the past I've described why you should give One Single Fuck. If you think your wife is being a "Comfort Whore," and she's a hysterical mess when it's your family member that died, then it's perfectly valid to 'fail' a Comfort Test. Your family member died, your emotional needs come first. But give One Single Fuck to conclude that. Don't just aimlessly go through your life and marriage with zero mindfulness about what the people around you are actually thinking, and defaulting to "STFU" because it's "safe." Your hysterical wife is probably not hysterical about whatever nonsense is coming out of her mouth, but she is hysterical about something, so you may want to figure that out and respond accordingly, even if that response is to just "STFU." But I see this advice used too often as an easy out to not fuck things up, but I honestly see it like training wheels.
So we say STFU in this context: "Look, you're clearly taking the shit your wife says way too much at face value. Her yelling about the dishes isn't about the dishes. Stop trying to compare chores with her, and STFU."
But I'd prefer to see it in this context: "Look, you're clearly taking the shit your wife says way too much at face value. Her yelling about the dishes isn't about the dishes.
Responding to her and arguing about dishes is entering her frame, which isn't doing either of you any good. But if you want to pull her into YOUR frame, you'll probably need to figure out whatever the fuck it's actually about. Have you been a Drunk Captain? Are your lives objectively overwhelmed with kids and careers and she's dealing with that poorly? Does she have stupidly unrealistic expectations about household chores, and do you need to set a hard boundary about this? Think about this, and until you have some developed and thoughtful ideas
stop trying to compare chores with her, and STFU."
Yeah, it is safe. You won't actively fuck anything up. But may passively fuck things up, probably when the people close to you start to resent you for your apparent zero empathy for anything. A woman with a hamster running wild isn't going to be particularly affectionate, appreciative, or respectful. You don't need to fall all over yourself placating that hamster, especially when it's running over something that has little or nothing to do with you. But being oblivious to that hamster running wild and thinking, whatevs, if she's upset about some shit, she should just tell me, and I'll blandly listen to her and hug her maybe isn't always the best move.
Some guys here do have wives who are so fucking anxious and neurotic and have such a low self-esteem (and have developed narcissistic personalities as a defense mechanism to avoid spending their days in a depressed fugue state of melancholy), that any emotional outburst likely has zero relation to any sort of reality. Do you know who else has poor executive function leading to impulsive emotional outbursts, all driven by a low self-esteem that is masked with narcissism? Teenagers. What do you do when a teenager loses his or her shit? You tell them to calm down, and if they're still insistent on raising a shitstorm, then you tell them to take their shitstorm somewhere else. Or, if they're throwing that shitstorm in their bedroom, you just leave the room.
Is your wife the Oldest Teenager in the House? Some fit that archetype pretty well, but others don't. I know this contradicts canonical Red Pill wisdom, but recognize the demographic they're discussing are mainly 18-25 year old women, who literally are teenagers or only a few years older. Some women never quite mature from this stage, especially if they're exceptionally neurotic. Your wife will Comfort Test you when she wants comfort. She will Shit Test you when she wants to give you shit.
The way she will do this, and the most effective response to pull her into your frame, may actually vary from marriage to marriage.
If we're serious about Red Pill being a toolbox, then I'm suggesting "STFU" is sometimes an overused hammer that makes it seem like any action/reaction from our wives is a Shit Test Nail. Which is bad when she's actually asking for help with her Comfort Test screw, which you just bang into the wall and crack her drywall of emotions that she felt was already on the verge of collapsing. Oops.
So she expressed envy for her divorced sister, and you responded with a compliment that was infantilizing at best, and condescending at worst. Since she "snapped" but you didn't elaborate on what she said (possibly because you're left-brained, half-austic mind that we see so often on MRP, and thus were so overwhelmed by actually having to process someone's intense emotions that it shut down) -- I can't tell you whether I think this was a Shit or a Comfort Test. But, it's very possible your response was smashing her Comfort Test screw with your "STFU hammer." You got any other tools in your toolbox, dude? Or are you just going to refuse to ever pull out a screwdriver because of that one time you dropped it on your foot?
This is a common problem in individual therapy. The therapist thinks they're fucking playing Clue, and consider it a winning condition when they announce your fucked mental state is Colonel Anxious, who clearly had a motive because of Bad Formative Experiences. Way to go, Sherlock, really nailed that stone cold whodunit. But, how do you arrest Colonel Anxious and put him in jail so he's not terrorizing other people? Good therapists should help you figure out Colonel Anxious was last seen In All Your Interpersonal Relationships, committing his heinous acts with his weapon of choice, All-Encompassing Fears and Debilitating Self-Doubt. Also found on the scene was his accomplice, Really Stressful External Events, and there's eye-witness testimony that the getaway driver was Useless and Unrealistic Escape Fantasies. That's the kind of information that your wife needs to arrest Colonel Anxious, or at least force him to flee to another country where he's mostly harmless.
Dude. Duuuuude. Your wife is responsible for her own emotions, and the fucked mental models that drive that emotions. But if her fucked mental models mean she irrationally rejects sex she wants because of some misguided need for control, well, she is overtly announcing, "I won't want to enter your frame because I've decided it's better to lash out with self-destructive reactions instead. I know it makes no sense, but it's what I'm going to do." A lot of women think this way, but it's impossible to really do much about it because they don't even realize they think this way. You just act happier and happier, she just gets pissier and pissier mostly because she wishes she could just operate with a healthy and constructive mind like you do, but she's jealous and resentful she can't, and it's easier to try and bring you down instead of figuring out her mental shit to stop thinking this way. And this will happen until get an Epic Shit Test known as "The Main Event," where she realizes how stupidly self-destructive her thinking is to herself, to you, and basically everyone else. Banging on your frame is just hurting her, so she should come to terms with that eventually.
Here is the thing. Your wife is being very overt with this thinking. Which means, at least in my opinion, you don't need a "Main Event." Which is good, because this whole sequence of events leading to catharsis, doesn't always happen. I'd ask one of our 65 year old guys here if his first wife would have smoothly escalated to a Main Event and then calmed the fuck down. Because not every person does this. Some people are so fucked in the head that they're willing to indulge their self-destructive habits so badly that they'll get divorced, or fucking slit their wrists in the bathtub, because, you know, it's "control," or some shit. Your wife is going to go down this path, and maybe she'll figure out it's a bad path and join your frame, or maybe she's too fucked in the head to do that. You can control that? No. Can you influence that? Of course. Are you saying you've never influenced anyone in your fucking life before?
If someone's wife isn't even conscious of this, there's not much you can do with any influence. But your wife is. Your wife is literally admitting, in very plain and overt language, that she acts like a bitch because she's anxious because she can't control shit. She's acknowledging that it could very well BE about the nail, and this is why I've written such a long wall of text you. You actually have a rare opportunity a lot of people on MRP don't. You can help your wife to get over her shit and enter your frame without a Main Event! But you're just sitting there, twirling your Red Pill hammer in your hand with a perfectly good clawhammer on the other end of it, and sort of just whistling happily and shrugging in response.
But you could say:
"I know sometimes looks like I never get nails in my forehead, but they do all the time. But I just take this, and yank it out. We can't do much when we get nails drilled into her head, but nothing's stopping us from just <yank> prying it out like this. I know it's easy to roll your eyes and think I have it easy, but everyone feels this way. It only looks easy because I spend a lot of time ripping those nails out, plus I got a good clawhammer. I think your last therapist focused too much on whatever happened in your past that you don't have a clawhammer, but it's not like they don't exist. Some people find them on their own, some people need some help. Some people have small claw hammers but at least they pull out small nails, until they can find a bigger hammer later on. I actually have a huge nail in the back of my head right here -- see? A lot of people don't see it, including you, and that's why you think I don't know what it's like to have nails, but I do. But until I get a big enough clawhammer, I at least make sure to pull out the smaller nails. It sort of seems like you're in so much pain from the big nails, you shove the smaller nails FURTHER into your head, because at least the pain from those nails is something you're 'controlling.' But, you know, seems pretty harmful to me. Probably just makes sense to get a claw hammer instead.
Or, you know, just do that. Buckle up, cowboy, because that's a much more bumpier ride. Guess we'll see you with a Main Event post in 3-6 months. Hope you don't end up divorced like this idiot.
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|Title||Wife Uses Sex To gain Control: Part II|
|Date||May 18, 2020 8:00 PM UTC (1 year ago)|
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