We already know that different, sometimes even opposing dating strategies can all be effective, if done well.
And the same is true for the type of men, or types of seducers.
There are many different types of seducers, some seemingly opposite of each other, who can all be successful occupying different niches.
When it comes to success, the key is not so much in the specific niche one inhabits, but in being high value -and high SMV– within that niche.
So here are the types of seducers, with the pros and cons for each one of them:
1. The Sensitive Artist
The sensitive artist doesn’t even seem to be interested in women.
And that’s exactly what makes him even more attractive.
The sensitive artist is lost in his world. So lost, that it’s women who need to pursue him for some real-world action.
- Slightly depressed
- Women chase him: not necessarily because he is so attractive, but because he rarely takes an active role in seduction. So the women who really like him are often forced to take a more active role
- Attracts resources: if he is the poor type of artist some women will take a provider role in the house and support him
- Highest quality women prefer different types: it’s rarely a combination of emotionally healthy and high-quality women who go for the sensitive artist. Plus, many sensitive types are drawn to dysfunctional women. Even a top sensitive artist like Kurt Cobain ended up with basket case like Courtney Love
- Potential for losing women’s (respect): the struggling and sensitive artists are abdicating typical male responsibilities that some women expect, including protecting, providing and, to a lesser extent, fixing things. If he brings home no bacon, and does nothing all day, some women -albeit not all- can eventually start to turn on him
- Potential for toxic relationships: if he attracts the crazy type of artist… It’s gonna be fireworks
Her: (shoots gun)
Him: You’re going to kill yourself
Her: I don’t wanna live
Welcome to the life of the crazy “artist” -where “artist” is often just a convenient cover for “crazy”-.
Women He Attracts:
- Struggling artists: they both can make feel each other like they are actually artists, instead of just being unemployed
- Groupies: only if he is a successful sensitive artist, of course
The more depressed and less effective at life tend to attract the “women who love too much” type (Norwood, 1985).
- The Dandy: the narcissist type of artist
- The Hipster: the non-artist, but likes to dress like one
- Drug-addict: less of an artist and more of a consumer of drugs. But he can put up enough of a front to seem “artistic”
- The Rebel: they both seek to live on the society’s fringes
2. The Rocker
Professionally, you might consider “the rocker” an artist.
But when it comes to seduction, he is very different.
The rocker is not brooding, depressed, or lost in his world. The rocker enjoys life and lives life to the fullest. And that makes him attractive -together with the fact that he is on stage, that he is popular, and that he likely is pre-selected-.
- Owns the performance night: the nights when he is performing, he is almost automatically at the top of the social pile. And that holds true even for less famous rockers
- Assumed preselection: women assume that because he’s in a band, he must be very successful with women
- Less appealing to women looking for stability: women who are looking for a boyfriend and a man with whom to start a family might disqualify the rocker as a long-term partner (but some of them might still want him for a night)
Women He Attracts:
The rocker has a large seductive appeal.
And he has the largest pull on:
- Groupies: the “limelight effect” is always stronger on a subset of women who are sometimes referred to as “groupies”
- Promiscuous & highly sexual women: they feel free to embrace their full sexual self with a rocker type. Especially if that rocker is not a next-door garage boy but an actual touring rocker
- Romantic women: especially if he sings ballads or love stories
3. The “Me-First” Alpha Male
A new trend in the male dating advice, but an old seducer type.
The alpha male:
- Prioritizes his purpose over women
- Prioritizes self-development over women
- Never chases
- Refuses to entertain games women play
- Get women as a consequence of his personal value / personality
The alpha male strategy intersects with the previous “lifestyle game” strategy, which sought to get women through an attractive and rich lifestyle.
The “alpha male game” does the same, plus it seeks to get women as a consequence of who is and who he becomes.
That’s why the alpha male chases little: he does not get women first. He gets his life in order first, and then the women will come.
- Gets high-quality women: high-quality women prefer all-around successful men (duh!). So when men become successful in life, they naturally tend to attract higher quality women
- Dates with power: by refusing to chase women and focusing on himself first, the alpha male enters his relationships with lots of power
- Reaches higher stations in life: by putting his purpose and his self-development first, the alpha male tends to rise higher in society than many other styles
- Potentially limiting style: if he is overly concerned with “being alpha” and never giving an inch, he precludes himself from strategies that might be lower-power or high-vulnerability, but still effective (think of conspicuous consumption, displays of affection, “love bombing” technique, opening up emotionally, etc.)
- Prisoner of a fragile ego: if the alpha male builds his ego around “being alpha”, that’s an inherently fragile ego. The alpha male type might take rejections too personally, and ultimately reject women out of fear of rejection, more than out of power
- Less effective for lower SMV men: put it simply, lower SMV men who will not become millionaires need to move their asses more and cannot pretend to be alphas and wait
- Unbalanced relationships of master and puppet: if you prefer “relationships of equals”, the alpha style is not for you. This can be a con because teams based on the collaboration between captains (men) and co-captains (their partners) are superior to teams of masters and tag-alongs
- Potential for toxicity: if the alpha male focus is on having as much power as possible, that can lead to manipulation, arguments, rebellious women, and toxic relationships
You can see it in Trump’s relationship:
Trump: Give me your hand
Melania: (swats his hand away)
When you try to “alpha” more independent-minded women and you don’t have their full respect and admiration, you end up with lots of arguments and a catty, rebellious woman (and it’s his fault, not hers).
Women He Attracts:
- Most women: successful alphas have a very large appeal
- Submissive women: submissive women make for better partners to alphas, since they will accept their subordinate role without rebelling
- Traditional women who seek a strong male figure
But also some feminist women who hate him while at the same time being turned on by him.
4. The Outlaw
Is the outlaw appealing?
Let’s hear from an outlaw about his history with women (Norwood, 1985):
When you’ve done time you learn that some women think you’re a creep and have nothing to do with you.
But there are other women who get turned on by the whole idea. It fascinates them. They see you as big and bad and they get real seductive, trying to tame you. Or they think you’ve been hurt and they feel sorry for you and want to help you.
As it turns out, being an outlaw is a polarizer: it repels most women, but it attracts a few of them.
Some researchers speculated that the outlaw appeal is also environment-dependent (Fallon, 2013). Specifically, the outlaw appeals grows in times of violence and upheavals, and it decreases in times of peace and safety.
I believe it’s not a coincidence that in countries such as Japan and Korea you will get far better receptions if you amp up your friendliness on first approach.
- Polarizing effect: being a polarizer can be a good thing, since you get clear-cut attraction or rejection, and don’t waste time on maybes
- Carnal attraction: the outlaw, like the muscular type, is high in masculinity, which can make for raw attraction
Otherwise though, not many advantages.
- Limiting strategy for high-quality women: high-quality women usually go for men at the top of the pile and outlaws are usually not high-up in general society. The higher status outlaws, most often, are on top of male-dominated gangs, which leaves them with a small pond of women to fish from
- Aggressive-looking men scare most women away on first approach: Starting a cold-approach with a smile is often better than going in at “high-intensity” (for example, Adelyn Birch says the psychopath stare is a turn on once the two are intimate, but just scary during dating)
Women He Attracts:
- Repressed women: some of these women feel the quickest way to recover ground on all the life they didn’t live is to swing to the extreme
- Women angry at their parents: getting with an outlaw type is the biggest revenge against their parents
- “Prisoners’ wives”: a subset of “women who love too much”. It’s a group of anxious-attachment women who are too afraid of abandonment, so they pick men who are physically unavailable and who can never leave them
- Fearful women: paradoxically, fearful women might feel safer with commanding and dominant men. And the most extreme ones might feel safer with an actual criminal
- Hybristophiliacs: this is a psychological umbrella-term for all the various subset of women who are attracted to violent criminals
The Serial Killer Myth: Don’t Believe The Hype
It’s a common mistake to overestimate the seductive power of violent criminals.
First, try to Google the prison wives of the famous most serial killers, and you will see.
Second, it’s mostly fame that attracts groupies, and there is only a handful of Ted Bundies who get famous. All the rest, including many serial killers, are nameless, groupie-less criminals.
- The Fighter: overall, being violent and getting into fights is a poor strategy. Winning fights only matters in species where the female has no say in picking a mate, and that’s not the case for humans (Ridley, 1993).
- The Pusher
- The Drug User
- The Rebel: the tamer side of the outlaw, and the “cool” kid in high-school. The rebel communicates that he is strong enough to buck the non-written “social laws”, while only breaking smaller laws. He attracts rebel women who don’t have the courage to rebel themselves
In my teen and early 20’s I was a rebel type:
That made me kinda “cool”.
But since women prefer the higher-powered man, the success you obtain from within society, both sexual and non-sexual, is superior to whatever you can obtain from outside of society -or bucking society-.
5. The Pick-Up Artist
The pick-up artist is not afraid of chasing women.
Indeed, that’s all he does.
He approaches a lot, talks to a lot of women, and women generally take a very high priority in his life -often, the only priority in their lives-.
Among the traits of the PUA:
- Lots of cold approaches
- Focus on games
- Mostly verbal games (push-pull, yes ladders, routines, sex innuendos, “couple frames”, etc.)
- Lots of smiles and jokes
- Higher energy
- Very social
- Works well for cold approaches: the high energy helps women snap out of autopilot, and his general friendliness and smiles can help ease possible initial fears
- Many approaches equals many opportunities: the pick-up artist, more at ease with rejections, can take lots of shots, and put the law of the large numbers on his side
- Can make lots of approaches seem natural at parties and social circles: since he is high energy and talks to a lot of people, men included, he can also approach lots of women without looking like he’s hitting on every single girl (a generally unattractive and low-power behavior)
- Well-rehearsed: the many approaches make him well-rehearsed in and, for the best ones, smooth
- It’s low on power: by walking to a girl first, the PUA is almost automatically lower in power. This is all the truer if you had to walk faster, or change direction to approach her. Smiling and joking also contribute to make him lower power
- Gets lots of shit-tests: PUAs focus a lot on shit tests because they get lots of shit-tests. They can come across as somewhat fake, unnatural, and big game-players. Women will wonder “is this guy for real?”, and throw plenty of roadblocks his way
- Branded as immature: women and men alike tend to think of players as immature, which partially makes sense, since many men tend to go through a “chasing women” phase and then grow out of it. That makes it harder for the PUA to gain social status
- It’s a poorer style for dates: Once you’re on a date, the lower-energy, high-power style is usually more attractive
- Wastes lots of time on women: sessions of approaching women require lots of time and investment, and pick-up artists don’t always place enough high value on their time. Especially if they focus on trying to turn “maybe women” into “yes women”
- The party animal: high energy, happy, and hyper-social. They never hit the gym and can sport a beer belly while still enjoying plenty of success (I’ve met several of these guys). Some PUAs try to go down this road and be the life of the party
- The wealthy womanizer: wealthy womanizers usually lead a lifestyle that gets women to them, but they might also dabble in cold approaches
- The natural: he never set out to be a PUA, but he sometimes behaves a bit like one
6. The Muscular Type
Yes, muscles and definition are attractive.
Only thin and scrawny jealous guys would deny that.
And yes, be it because muscular men are more confident, or because they are more attractive, they also tend to have more sex partners (Kordsmeier, 2018).
- Carnal attraction: attraction based body type is very sexual and is primal, which can make for hot sex and a woman “always ready to go”
- Fast sex: when women are very into the muscular type, the muscular man can easily date as a pure lover. Sex happens quickly
- Time-intensive: getting big takes time, effort, and dedication. I agree with the guys who say that “you shouldn’t lift if your primary goal is getting women”
- Too much gym-dedication can make him a less rounded individual: there is only so much in the day. If most of your time is spent eating and drinking protein shakes, and your holiday choice revolve around “where you can find the closest gym”, you are bound to lose out on other attractive traits
- Can tun off certain types of girls: it’s a crock that muscles only attract superficial women. But you do attract less of certain types of women, such as hipsters and intellectuals, for example
- Can make some women feel insecure: women are very body-conscious. Some really shredded men can make some women feel insecure in the relationship. And while that can be fixed in dating by upping availability, it can cause issues in long-term relationships
- Too much is… Too much: a study with 141 women in their 20’s found that women preferred “men with moderate muscularity”. This is an example of what I call the “threshold effect”.
Men fail to realize the “threshold effect” because there is no threshold effect on physical and masculinity traits among men. This is probably because, from an evolutionary point of view, male competition has had a stronger effect on stereotypically male traits than female choice had (Puts, 2010).
Women He Attracts:
If we are talking about well-toned bodies, then the appeal is very large.
A few exceptions apply for women who prefer “cuddle monsters” and “dad bobs”, but those are a minority.
Lifters enjoy an especially large pull with:
- Female fitness models: it would be really hard for a thin guy to date a female fitness nerd and/or a muscular woman
- Female bodybuilders: same as above, times ten
- MILFs: older women in general are more attracted to muscular bodies than younger ones
- The fighter: getting big is a way of communicating “I have physical power”, so there is a limited overlap with gang members and street fighters
- The Jock: the jock invests heavily on his physical conditions, but his seduction power is probably more about social status than pure physique
- The Narcissist: a few heavyweight lifters are body-narcissists
7. The Feminine Type
It can come as a surprise that men with a touch of femininity can be attractive.
But it’s only surprising to those who are unaware of boy bands and movies like Titanic.
Plus, it’s surprising for those who do not want to see.
Indeed many men look down and resent the feminine type.
They don’t consider him a “real man”.
Still, the successful feminine types can take solace with the large subset of women who find them attractive.
- Very polarizing: women who like them will really like him. The attraction can be very sexual, too
- Struggles to climb social hierarchies: people don’t like very masculine women and don’t respect very feminine men. That can be an impediment in being well-liked and well-respected, which in turn can make it difficult to climb power hierarchies and acquire social status
Women He Attracts:
- Younger women: there are a few more mature women who also like more feminine men, but it’s a minority
- Women in more peaceful societies: less of a need for a stronger defender makes the more feminine types comparatively better off
- Fearful women: whereas very manly man can seem scary, the high femininity of the feminine type puts them at ease (Greene, 2001)
- Bi-curious women: the feminine type attracts bi-curious women. And for the record, many women are bi-curious
- The dandy: the dandy has a touch of femininity
- The narcissist: by caring so much about his appearance and about what people think of him, narcissists have a touch of femininity
- The hypersexed bisexual: the hypersexed bisexual oozes sex and “swings both ways”
In spite of his beard and high-intensity, Russel Brand, just like other glam-rock players, has marked elements of femininity.
He said it himself in an interview:
Russel Brand: Women lower their guard and feel at ease around me because they think I’m gay
8. The Intellectual
Is knowledge attractive?
If you think that “knoweldge” is the intellectual’s appeal, you’re wrong.
Or, to be more precise, you’d only be marginally correct.
Being an expert in any field doesn’t hurt, of course, but it doesn’t help that much either.
So, what’s attractive about the intellectual?
The intellectual is attractive because of the intellectual dominance he possesses over the people around which, in turn, is an important subset of general social dominance.
The most Machiavellian intellectuals also take a judge role, which gives them even more social power (see example later).
Women He Attracts:
- Father complex-women:
- Women with an absent father
- Women who never knew their father
- Women who admired their father (and seek someone similar)
- Sapiosexuals: yes, it exists (Gignac et. al., 2018), albeit it’s more about perceived intelligence -and intellectual dominance, of course- than actual IQ points
- Anxious women: the calm serenity of the intellectual type soothes them
On the seductive pull of the intellectual, especially the judge-type of intellectual, I quote a very instructive passage from “Women Who Love Too Much“.
My comments are in grey:
We met at a Christmas party. I was there with his younger brother who really liked me.
He was smoking a pipe and wearing a tweed jacket with patches on the elbows, and he looked so Ivy League. I was terribly impressed.
—> This is the “professor” type of appeal
But there was also an air of melancholy about him and really that was as attractive to me as his looks.
—> This is the “artist” type of appeal
I was sure he’d been deeply hurt at some time and I wanted to get to know him, to know what had happened, and to “understand.”
—> This is her “woman’s who love too much” drive to help kicking in
I was sure he was unattainable.
(…) We did talk a lot that first evening, but he never quite squared off with me, face to face. He was always at an angle, slightly preoccupied with something else
—> This is the “philosopher lost in his own world” appeal, plus nonverbally framing himself as superior. From a judge position, he is communicating “you’re not good enough” for my full attention
and I kept trying to win his complete attention.
—> She accepted his judge frame. Now he has become the dispenser of positive and negative emotional rewards. He’s in power.
What happened was that every word he spoke to me became vitally important, almost precious, because I was sure he had better things to do.
It had been just like that with my father. (…)
—> And this is the final straw: her father had also been an abset man
Put all of those together, and she was smitten in love within minutes.
- The professor: women like professors because of their power position, but also because they can teach children and help them achieve a good status in society (Miller, 2005)
- The philosopher: he is less about teaching, and more about thinking
- The writer: he is at the intersection between the artist and the intellectual
9. The Charmer
The charmer charms everyone.
And especially so the ladies.
The good social charmers are:
- Socially skilled
- Socially confident
- High status
- Intelligent (or intelligent-sounding)
- Verbally gifted
- Well dressed
- Gets high-quality women: the charmer tends to be well-liked by everyone, to advance well within hierarchies, and to get both social power and resources. That vibes well with high-quality women
- Women want to stay with him: more girls want to stay with a charmer after sex because he does not come across like a player, but like a genuine high-quality guy
- All-terrain, 360° seducer: the beauty of the charmer is that he is not bound to any hierarchy. Because of his skills, he can move into any social group and be successful
- If he has no edge, he might be “too nice”: if he focuses too much on being liked, he can come across as too friendly and not sexual and edgy enough
- Can become too unavailable: if he is equally charming to everyone, women might feel he is not interested in them, which leads to self-rejection
Overall though, high-quality charmers who learned power dynamics have little cons since they know how to avoid those pitfalls.
Women He Attracts:
- Most women: if he’s a high-quality charmer, his appeal is one of the broadest of them all
- Edgy types: their seductive pull is not in their social skills, but in their intensity. See for example the eyes of Nikola Tesla, an example of the edgy charismatic type
- Narcissists: some charmers can have a touch of a narcissism. They became good with people because they like climbing social ladders and being known by everyone
- Refined lovers: refined lovers come across as equally polished and high-value, but are more focused on women. They can be closer to the pick-up artists, and have a touch of narcissism
10. The Narcissist
Narcissism is the most attractive trait of the dark triad.
Narcissists think they’re hot shit.
And because they so well act the part, many women also think they must indeed be hot shit.
As an example for the narcissist, I love the song “You’re So Vain”, in which Carly Simon shares her love story -and heartbreak- with a narcissist:
You walked into the party
Like you were walking on to a yacht
Your hat strategically dipped below one eye
Your scarf, it was apricot
You had one eye in the mirror
As you watched yourself Gavotte
And all the girls dreamed that they’d be your partner
- Maximizes his looks: narcissist tend to take great care of their looks, which helps them maximize a very important trait for seduction
- He shapes reality with his perceptions: by acting like they’re high status, some women will believe they are indeed high status
- Narcissists don’t grow: narcissists, thinking they are hot shit independently of how good they truly are, tend to be poor learners, which keeps them stuck in life (Bernstein, 2000)
- When self-image badly outstrips reality, can come across as pathetic: there are plenty of unsuccessful narcissists. So when a narcissist with too high an opinion of himself is actually a loser, he’s twice more of a loser than a “normal” loser
- Can be poor persuaders: seduction and persuasion skills overlap. And many narcissists can be poor at persuading others because they think that everyone should be able to see their “obvious” genius
Narcissism can be if you’re around a 6 or 7 on a scale from 1 to 10. Above that, it becomes counterproductive.
Women He Attracts:
- Status-conscious women: they like equally status-conscious men, especially if they appear high-status
- Naive women: they confuse narcissism for real value
- Social climbers: they feel they can get a nice a good kick up with the narcissist, and they are good at manipulating the narcissist with the compliments and adulation the narcissist craves
These seducer types are equally effective, but we can analyze them in quicker format:
- The pimp / psychopath (not endorsed by TPM): pimps overlap with abusive men and psychopaths. Their “game” is about total control, operant conditioning through punishments and few rewards, and emotional dependency with judge frames.
Here’s an example of a guy teaching others how he does it on “ask the red pill” (though you never who’s making stuff up there):
Needless to say, I don’t recommend, encourage, or condone this style.
So back to more value-adding styles:
- The party animal: They talk loud, lots, and to everyone. They laugh and tell stories and are generally cheerful and high-energy. Sometimes drunk, too. They get all the attention on themselves, and women who are out for fun can stick to them and eventually go home with them
- The famous man: The famous man isn’t even a seducer, since women just fall into his lap. Almost any woman is attracted by fame, since fame is an extreme form of social proof and, often, of preselection. Fame might be the single biggest “sexual market value hack” available, and any of the above styles is also turbocharged by fame.
- The Handsome Type: these guys wonder why anyone would even learn how seduction works. Of course, unless they’re total social retards, they don’t have to learn anything: women will like them anyway
- Daredevil: they attract women through their unavailability, atypical lifestyle, and penchant for adventures. Thrill-seeking women are their most loving fans.
James Bond is a mix of refined lover, rebel, and daredevil
- The passionate romancer: loves women above all, always in love, and always lusting for new adventures. Casanova is the prototype of the passionate romancer. Albeit all modern dating coaches (righteously) admonish not to chase, a high-value man pursuing with abandon can lead to some incredible whirlwind romances
- The sexual seducer: he promises great sex and seeks to arouse women with either sexual talk, or sexual body language. You can see an example here:
Sex-based seduction are high-risk and high-reward.
Quick and hot sex is the reward. Driving away women who need a slower build-up -or have hung-ups around sex- is the risk.
Better not trying this via text, the risks far outweigh the rewards. It’s far better to allude to sex, but never go caveman via texts:
Hint at the sexual, but more in a romanticized way. Avoid full-on sex talk via texts
Competition Among Stiles
If so many different styles are effective, why do people argue on what’s “best”?
For a simple reason: people become their style.
And when their style becomes who they are, they are not really promoting or defending a style, but they are promoting and defending themselves (plus, sometimes, their businesses).
As a rule of thumb, the more they have invested, both in time, finances, and self-identity, the less open-minded they will be.
Let’s review the biggest “seduction beef” going on these days:
Alphas VS Pick-Up Artists
The two were bound to distrust each other.
First of all, there are power dynamics.
Whenever someone enters a new circle (alpha male strategies), the old guard will often get defensive (pick-up artists).
Plus, in this case, they also have quite different philosophies.
The alpha male strategist is low in games and high power, and that’s why men more schooled in routines and “verbal game” don’t vibe with it.
Pick-up artist Todd Valentine calls the “alpha male style” a “disturbing trend” that is “really holding guys back”.
I see his point, and I even partially agree (see the “cons” above). But I think Todd is being too harsh and missing on the power dynamics aspect of dating.
In truth, of course, they are both right.
Both strategies are effective, but the yare effective in different ways, in different environments, and with different women.
So you are better off with both.
Which One Should You Go For?
Choose depending on:
- Your nature: what you like best and what you’re best suited at
- The type of women you like: usually, your nature and the women you like go hand in hand. What you like for yourself is also what you like in others
- The environment: different types of seducers net different results depending on the environment they’re in. That’s why being a chameleon pays off. Also see “sexual market value relativity“
- Specialize, but bring up all the fundamentals of attraction above the minimum threshold
For example, if you’re the intellectual type, that’s not an excuse to be overweight and unhealthy.
And if you’re the muscular type, that’s no excuse to act dumb and have no social skills.
The Highest-Power Styles
Power is important for effective seduction, so it’s best to take it into account when choosing a style.
Red are low-power styles, green are high-power styles:
- The pick-up artist tends to be lower power. Especially if he has a reputation for a PUA, or seeks a reputation as a player
- The high-energy party animal tends to be branded as “the crazy guy”, and not to have a very high rank in social hierarchies
- The feminine type is frowned upon by men and alpha females alike, and since those are the ones with power, he struggles to reach the top
- The alpha male type, dating with power dynamics in mind and by putting himself and his personal success first tend to be higher in power
- The refined lover, strong of his knowledge of power dynamics and liked by men as he is attractive to women, he is more likely to climb social hierarchies and date with power
However, as a rule of thumb, keep this in mind: it’s less about style, and more about quality within each style.
Every single style in this list fails if the man who represents the style is a low-quality man with low sexual market value. And every single style cleans it if the man who represents the style is a high-quality man.
- Lovers VS providers (VS friends): an overview of how quality impacts the dating strategy more than the dating strategy itself