~ archived since 2018 ~

The curious, cautionary fates of many of the guys who go deep into game and Internet

The Red Quest
January 3, 2022

Tom Torero has died, and he is said to have died by suicide. RIP. I don’t recall when or how I first started reading him, but it was many years ago, and I bought some of his books. I remember finding both DAYGAME and BELOW THE BELT (neither seem available on Amazon right now, sadly) amusing and at times inspiring: though, like many guys interested in these matters, there seemed to be a thread of darkness running through his soul + writings. He was smart, and I’m saddened by his passing.

There is a line of intellectual descent running through many guys interested in pickup or seduction, and it seems many guys found his work. Right now, the TomTorero.com domain seems dead, and I wonder if anyone has a backup of his material.

A few years back he asked if I’d be on his podcast: for reasons of anonymity and such, I said no, though I listened to some episodes. If he’d been born centuries ago, he might have been a priest, or a heretic, the line between those two positions being thin. Heresy attracts me.

I’m saddened, and have read some of the memorials devoted to Tom, and I’m also thinking about others who have trod, if not his path, then paths adjacent to him: Roosh found god and has become… a curious personage, to be polite, although there are many less-polite descriptions possible. If you wish to have him exhort you to find god yourself and stop sleeping with hot chicks, you can do so, though I don’t personally wish to.

Another guy, Goldmund, tried to monetize game and being a game coach for a number of years, before disappearing for a while and then coming back around, apparently also in some kind of spiritual/religious cast, after family tragedy. I find his recent work and exhortations… not compelling. That he’s done a 180, though, is notable. Why should we believe he won’t randomly change again? He is scientifically and technically illiterate, something he shares with others in this space.

Neil Strauss wrote THE TRUTH, then got divorced after it. It’s not clear what he’s up to these days, though I’ve heard reports he’s lonely and obsessed with cam girls. Could be false. I now read THE GAME as a brilliant book, still, but also a cautionary tale. Mystery has a peculiar WordPress site up now, with some older videos; he seems also to have (mostly) disappeared.

A fellow named Jack Murphy isn’t a game guy, exactly (from what I understand: I’ve not followed him), but he was into adjacent men’s development. He appears also to have written an article about being into being cuckolded… and he made some prostate stimulation videos, which someone or someones dug up. I dunno, if that’s what a guy is into, fine, so be it, but it would also seem to me that if that’s what he’s into, he’s better off owning it than pretending. Many, many people have trouble owning what they really want, sexually. This guy has the problem of selling faux-masculinity to rubes, and his audience won’t accept those parts of him. He also exists in a space where the audience wants a kind of fantasy, and is most interested in guys willing to sell that fantasy. He ceased being an avatar of that fantasy and now seems to be cast from his fold.

Pat Stedman participated in the 6 January 2021 insurrectionist riot in an attempt to overthrow a presidential election, and possibly murder senators along the way. Does that sound like a sound, well-balanced person to you? Or, read this piece on him.

Roy Walker said in February 2022, “Well, I think Putin had full rights to invade [Ukraine], whats the difference between Rus/UK vs The West/Libya?” I guess Walker is an apologist for dictators.

Krauser advocates for genocide, pretends the Holocaust didn’t happen, and openly admires actual fascists. Maybe he is an edgy 4chan troll… but he is pretty old for that.

And then there is this guy.

Judge for yourself. By the company you keep, you shall be known.

I worry that some of the people most attracted to this world are either driven mad by it, or that those with some madness within them already are attracted… one can see a kind of madness and tribalism in response in rampant science denialism. There are many who claim to have found The Secret… only for those same guys to recant and reject the previous “Secret” a few years later. I’m not  denying the power of game, or the power of understanding evolutionary biology, or of attempting to learn about female behavior and psychology. But this post is about the utility of looking deeply at a person’s life and trajectory, before buying into whatever they are pitching. That is one reason I encourage guys to consider status or coolness first, though I could add the words “accomplishment” or “achievement.” It may also be that the guys who get most into this are too outsider for too longer, to the detriment of their own development and growth.

In addition, life has many seasons. For most guys, there is a season in life for game and chasing women and getting laid, but for very few guys should that be life’s only season. Most guys seem to have two to five years of chasing women in them, and then they focus on other things.

If things are going poorly, or if you are experiencing a midnight of the soul, reach out. To someone. Anyone. Life will have helpers in unexpected places (though you too will be expected to help others, in your own time). Life needs a balance of giving and taking, and I fear that some guys attracted to this space are over-fond of taking, and not fond enough of giving or building. It is of course a mistake to give away too much value. But I think we are built for mutual reciprocity and small groups: two things less foregrounded today than they were in the past. I’m not saying the past was great (I wouldn’t have wanted to marry some chick when I was 20 and stayed with her forever), but there are elements of the past we should consider. Life design today is the individual’s responsibility, and with responsibility comes risk.

Balaji likes to say that the internet increases variance. It tends also to shred real-world community bonds. I’m not saying we should go back to a pre-Internet world, but we should contemplate what extreme variance does to the human psyche. What it does is not always good, though it can be. Torero and many other guys writing about game enabled me to achieve incredible heights with chicks, the kinds of heights I’d not have thought possible at say 19 or 23. Pre-Internet, I probably would’ve gotten married in my 20s, and ignored that nagging feeling of underperformance, gotten divorced in my late 30s, never fully realized what could go right. I’ve learned much, and Red Quest is an attempt to pay some of that learning forward.

Many guys neglect building larger communities and families, because they want to pursue the game. Contrast that with someone like Paul Janka, who was a very successful player for years, and then did something else. I’m not saying his way is the only way or the right way, but the difference between him and the guys in it for the very long haul matters.

The best people, the more you know them, the more admirable they become. Many people, as you know them better, reveal aspects of themselves that aren’t so good. You’re the top five people you spend time with and around. Pick with care. Remember the Internet isn’t the real world. Many people who spend too much time online have problems. Those problems tend to leak out over time.

All of us want our lives to be meaningful, though what “meaningful” means may vary at different points in life. To attempt to forever pursue the game, seems to either attract guys who have other challenges, or to present other psychological challenges to guys, or maybe both. At the bottom of game and red pill is a question: “What does it mean to live a good life?” Developing skills with women is one part of that, but pursuing that throughout the lifespan likely leads to diminishing returns. Life, like calculus, is about change. Choose your idols carefully.

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Post Information
Title The curious, cautionary fates of many of the guys who go deep into game and Internet
Author The Red Quest
Date January 3, 2022 4:37 PM UTC (10 months ago)
Blog The Red Quest
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/blog/The-Red-Quest/the-curious-cautionary-fates-of-many-of-the-guys.44700
Original Link https://theredquest.wordpress.com/2022/01/03/the-curious-cautionary-fates-of-many-of-the-guys-who-go-deep-into-game-and-internet/
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