~ archived since 2018 ~

Biggest mistakes men make on dates

Woujo
June 14, 2021

Here are the biggest mistakes men make on dates. I base this on what men and women have told me, what I have seen myself, and what I have done.

Not taking the lead. The biggest mistake men make on dates and in relationships in general is not taking the lead. You need to pick a place, a time, and a plan, and then verbalize the plan at appropriate times. When you ask her out, you should have a time and a place in her place: “Hey are you free to grab a drink at Jimmy’s at 9 PM on Tuesday?” Once you are on the date, you then lay out the plan step by step, by saying stuff like “I know a really cool bar right around the corner of here, let’s go there after this drink. If it sucks, we’ll go to a different bar. How does that sound?” If she thinks your plan sucks, she will tell you. You also need to lead the conversation. Plans dissolve her anxiety and let her rational mind go to sleep and allow her emotions to run wild.

You also need to set the frame. Frame is complicated, but it basically means you must bring her into your reality, where your morality, truth, and emotional tone reign. No matter how strongly a woman appears to want to assert her frame, she really wants to leave her own reality and enter a superior one, preferably one that is fun, anxiety free, and more exciting than her currently reality. A superior frame is appealing because it represents a superior emotional experience, one where she can defeat any challenge vicariously through you if you are confident.

It is very easy to get sucked into a woman’s frame, especially if she is hot, upper class, or otherwise intimidating somehow. For example, if you are on a date with a woman who looks very professional and modest, you may assume she is a prude and then be afraid to sexualize the conversation or talk about certain subjects. But accepting the woman’s frame will cause you to censor yourself around her, which will make the date boring. You cannot read a woman’s mind so you have no idea what will actually offend her, so by accepting whatever frame she is projecting you will end up applying a blanket censorship on yourself and not approaching any interesting or edgy subject. Remember, she has gone out on a huge number of dates with guys whose frame buckled and melted in her presence. She will only be attracted to you if you are different and basically, unafraid to challenge her but not in an adversarial way. Obviously, there are some subjects that you should avoid on dates, but you need to bring as much of your unique personality and interests to the date as possible without fear that she might disapprove of some aspects of you.

Being boring. From the first second of the date, it is your responsibility to make the date as interesting, fun, and emotionally salient for the both of you as fast as possible. The deeper and stronger the emotions, the better. Your goal is to find deep, emotionally powerful subjects that you are both interested in to discuss. Doing this will feel uncomfortable because it will require you to push the envelope and gamble on taking the conversation in directions you may not be sure she will like. You will need to make the conversation weird, sexual, crazy, or deep even when it feels like it does not fit the vibe. Don’t worry - if she is not interested in going there you can pull back. Women are not going to want to take the lead and they definitely do not want to take chances, so it is your responsibility to push the envelope.

Contrary to popular opinion, your job, hometown, favorite movies, books, and musical artists are not interesting or emotionally rich topics to explore. You can spend a few minutes on that practical stuff, but you need to switch the subject to fun stuff as soon as possible: Ask her what conspiracy theories she believes in, what the craziest thing she believes in, what her perfect day is, what she would do with a billion dollars, who she would murder if she wouldn’t get caught, what her life goals are, etc… If your date starts with more than 20 minutes of boring talk, you have failed.

At the same time, make sure you do not let the conversation devolve into an interview. The ideal conversation is an adventure where you both confront some challenge and bring back some prize, so if you just ask her questions you are getting nowhere. You may need to ask some questions to find out what she is interested in, but once you find an emotionally salient subject make sure you explore it by bringing your own perspective to it.

Acting platonic. You must somehow make clear to her that you are on a “date” and your ultimate goal is to fuck her. You don’t need to say those words explicitly, but you must do something to show you are not there to be her friend. If you act completely asexual from beginning to end she will think you are either a pussy or not interested in her. A woman wants to know that you are not afraid of being a man. You do not need to be crass or aggressive or pushy. You just need to make one or two statements making clear you are sexually attracted to her. You can say things like “you look really hot” or “I am really attracted to you” or something. After sexualizing the encounter, I recommend immediately switching subjects so she does not feel like you are a creep or are pressuring her. If one sexual comment during the course of the date grosses her out, she is not into you.

Getting too sexually aggressive. You should absolutely try to have sex with every woman you go on a date with, but the moment she says “no” or pulls back you should pull back as well. You can have an incredible date and ruin it by being too handsy or pushy at the end. Remember, women decides when sex happens, not you. It is your job to take the lead and fly the plane, but you need to make sure she wants to be a passenger first.

Getting too emotionally invested. Men emotionally invest quicker than women, so they are likely to show way too much interest, especially early in the date, which kills womens’ attraction. Most guys think that just getting a date with a girl means they have “made it” but the reality is that women go into dates “on the fence.” If you immediately act emotionally overinvested, she will assume that you are needy, don’t have a lot of options, and that you are beneath her. In other words, you cannot show that you have emotionally invested in her apart from her actual contributions to her emotional experience.

That said, you must show SOME emotional investment, just less than her. If you are completely emotionless, she will think you are not interested and avoid emotionally investing in you. Instead, you should follow the following rule: “show interest in what she says or does, not just in HER.” Women feel appreciated and loved when you emotionally invest when she meaningfully contributes to your emotional experience, not just because she is hot. Because men emotionally invest quicker than women, you should be constantly on guard to pump the brakes when necessary. If you find yourself wanting to discuss the wedding or take her to the Gucci store, you are probably too invested.

Validating yourself to her. Most guys see dates as an audition where they need to “impress” the woman to have sex with her. Don’t do that – if she subconsciously senses you are trying to validate yourself she will lose attraction because you are indicating that you are beneath her. Your mindset should not be “I hope she likes me” but rather “I am trying to get to know this woman to see if she is good enough for me.” Because most guys seek validation on dates, if you do not do so, you raise her intrigue level through the roof. This means no bragging, spending a bunch of money on her, talking about yourself too much, agreeing with everything she says, etc… Instead, you should sit back, get comfortable, and let her audition to impress you. A surefire sign a woman is attracted to you is that she feels self-conscious and a little nervous.

If you need to tell her something about your life, you should make it as part of a larger, more important point rather than a brag. For example, if a woman says she likes exotic cars instead of saying “I have a Lamborghini!! Wanna see a picture?” you should say “I have some exotic cars, but they’re much more fun if someone else owns them and lets you ride along, trust me.” And don’t worry, if she is interested in you at all she will ask you what kind of car you have. You have to make the woman work to find out stuff about your life to maintain an aura of mystery.

Projecting the wrong image. Normally you should not give a fuck and push boundaries, but early in dating you should be very aware of the image you are projecting. When a woman knows almost nothing about you she will make snap judgments about you based on the little sees. I have had many women tell me that they immediately wrote a guy off because one weird, inappropriate thing they saw in the first 20 minutes of the date.

Being negative. I don’t care how much of a gloomy, goth, “realistic” person you are – on dates you need to maintain an unassailable, almost delusional positivity. If you make the date a complain fest about how terrible the world and your life is, she will lose interest. Women are generally more neurotic than men, and they are attracted to confident men because they are positive and can generate positive emotion. You must also avoid unloading your problems, mental illnesses, fears, and insecurities on her, at least in the beginning. It’s ok to talk about challenges in your life, but you should do so in a confident, interesting, positive way and make clear there was a happy ending (or there will be a happy ending). If you are drowning in the pool of life, a woman you just met cannot and does not want to jump in and save you. Please also be careful of making the date too dark: if your dad died but it wasn’t a big deal for you, she will still project her own feelings of negativity on that situation.

“Helping” her. Your goal on a date should be to have fun, not to “help” her. Guys most often “help” women on dates by being emotional tampons and giving free therapy. It is good to get “deep”, but there is a difference between getting deep and just listening to her ramble about her problems for a long ass time. If you provide free therapy for nothing in return, she will not respect you, no matter how good the therapy was. Remember – your goal is to have fun, and if you are not having fun, she will not be attracted. Also, women on dates should be trying to impress you, and if she spends the entire date complaining about her problems she is not trying to impress you. Guys “help” women in other ways as well – I once heard of a guy who spent most of the date giving the woman legal advice because she was setting up a new company. The advice was good and helpful, but she did not give him a second date because he did not build any attraction. If the woman brings up a problem, the best way you can “help” her is by projecting confidence and making her feel like if she was you she could get through any problem with joy and calm.

Getting too comfortable. Often when a date is going well, both men and women become “comfortable” and start oversharing, showing their vulnerabilities, and losing control of their emotions. I once had a woman get drunk on a date and admit to me that her brother robbed a bank and buried the money in her backyard. You need to be very, very careful about this – no matter how much fun you are having, or how much of a “connection” you feel, there are certain things you should just never say on a first date. Do you think Hitler might have been right about some things? Do you think child molestors are treated unfairly in our society? Are your hemorroids flaring up? Keep that shit to yourself until you are deeper into the relationship. One consequence of getting too emotionally invested is oversharing, so be careful about that. Again if you want to talk about something vulnerable you must do so from a position of strength so she can continue to see you as her emotional rock.

Talking about exes. Don’t ever talk about exes on a date. Ever. Ever. I don’t care if you have the best relationship in the world with your ex. Don’t do it. It never produces anything positive. And if she brings up her ex (or any guy she used to fuck), make a passing comment and change the subject as quickly as you can. The more time she spends talking about other guys she fucked, the less likely she is to want to fuck you. And if a woman demands to make the date about other guys she fucked, she is using you as a therapist and not as a potential sexual partner. If you absolutely must say something about your own ex, say something brief and positive and move on.

Being scared to enjoy yourself. It may sound weird, but a woman’s attraction to you is based in large amount on how much fun you are having. Women seek to vicariously experience the man’s emotional experience, so if you are angry, anxious, neurotic, negative, boring, listless, timid, jumpy, or rigid, women will sense that and lose attraction. Instead, you should be calm, relaxed, curious, and genuinely enjoying yourself. If she is boring, you need to make her interesting by finding a fun subject to talk about or activity to do.

If you are ever worried or anxious about what to do next on a date, take a deep breath, relax, and just have fun. To have fun, you may need to change the subject, location, or dynamic to keep it fun and exciting, but you should have the confidence to do so, and the trust in yourself that you will make the right choice. Obviously, you should do something that she also enjoys, but you can’t read her mind, so you need to pick something, jump into the unknown, and then course correct if she is not feeling it. You can’t wait for her approval first.

Keeping your distance. Your goal on a date should be to build intimacy, both physical and emotional. You build physical intimacy by sitting close to her, looking into her eyes, and touching her at appropriate times. You build emotional intimacy by exploring deep, emotionally salient subjects that you are both interested in, like relationships, careers, life goals, sex, spirituality, your dreams, etc. I usually start a date with “so how was your day today” and within 2 hours we are talking about what we would do if we had 24 hours to live.

Ideally, you will show up to the date early and find a place at the bar so you can sit next to her. Sitting across a table is bad news because it is less intimate and harder to touch her. If for whatever reason you end up sitting across from her at a table have one drink and then try to go somewhere else where you can sit at a bar.

Touching is a touchy subject. Some guys make women uncomfortable by being too handsy. On the other extreme, some guys come off as cold and uninterested by never touching at all. My take is this: you should not be afraid to touch, but you should read her and touch as you build intimacy. I start the date off with a hug, sit close to her, and only start to touch her when the date hits emotional “high” points, using the push pull method so she does not feel pressured. If the date is going well, she will start touching you as well. Make sure your touching is not too prolonged, at least in the beginning because it may look needy and aggressive. Again, figuring out how and when to do this requires emotional intelligence and practice.

Getting drunk. Don’t ever get more drunk than your date, especially on a first date. I don’t care how much fun you are having, how much she seems to like you, or what the situation is. Women want their men to be emotionally stable and able to lead, and getting drunker than her shows that you are not that.

Letting her get drunk. Obviously, she is an adult and she can do whatever she wants, but it is better for you if she does not get drunk because 1) she can get sick and ruin your night, 2) you won’t be able to have sex with her, 3) she will become embarrassed and maybe not want to see you again out of sheer embarrassment.

Taking her to dinner or spending too much money on her. Don’t take a woman to a fancy restaurant or an expensive concert for a first date. In fact, don’t take her to dinner at all until you are fucking her. Spending much money on a woman who has done nothing for you is weird, shows too much emotional investment and subconsciously communicates that you feel like you need to validate yourself to her. Spending money on a woman also puts pressure on her because it makes her feels like she needs to “put out” to pay you back, and women would rather just escape the feeling that she owes you something.

Generally speaking, the less money you spend on her, the better. If you invited her out, it is appropriate for you to pay for the first round of drinks. But if she doesn’t offer to pay for the second round, that is an indicator she is not interested in you or she will expect to receive more in the relationship than she gives (which will view you as a beta in her eyes and make her not want to fuck you). In any event, you usually shouldn’t be paying for more than 2 drinks for her unless she is clearly emotionally invested in you and in hardcore party mode. Finally, if you are going to a concert or something where the ticket costs more than $20 or $30, she should pay for her own ticket.

Not challenging her. If you laugh at all of your jokes, agree with everything she says, and generally make her feel like you will do anything in your power to make her happy, she will lose attraction to you. Women want to be challenged and raised to a higher level by the man they are with. A woman knows if what she is talking about is boring or not. If you let her continue talking about something she finds boring, she will view you as weak and beta and will begin counting down the seconds until the date is over.

TheRedArchive is an archive of Red Pill content, including various subreddits and blogs. This post has been archived from the blog Woujo.

Woujo archive

Download the post

Want to save the post for offline use on your device? Choose one of the download options below:

Post Information
Title Biggest mistakes men make on dates
Author Woujo
Date June 14, 2021 5:45 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Blog Woujo
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/blog/Woujo/biggest-mistakes-men-make-on-dates.34342
https://theredarchive.com/blog/34342
Original Link https://www.woujo.com/blog/2021/6/14/biggest-mistakes-men-make-on-dates
Red Pill terms in post
You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

© TheRedArchive 2022. All rights reserved.
created by /u/dream-hunter