The first thing you need to know about having conversations with women is that you don’t need to have a conversation with a woman to have sex with her.
The purpose of a conversation is to demonstrate to her that you are confidently, joyfully, and resiliently pursuing your life’s mission, your life is fun and interesting, and that you will let her join your fun and interesting life if she emotionally invests in you and behaves properly. But you don’t need to talk much if she already knows these things. When Leonardo DiCaprio fucks supermodels he doesn’t spend hours “gaming” them – they already know what the deal is. But for the rest of us, especially when we first meet a girl, we may need to do some talking.
All of these concepts are connected. If you are not joyful, she will assume your life is not fun and interesting. If you can be distracted from your mission or be perturbed, she will either think your life isn’t that fun and interesting, or that she shouldn’t join because it can be interrupted at any time. If you let her join without her emotionally investing, she will assume that there is nothing special about your life. Etc...
You “win” the conversation by getting her emotionally invested in you (following you around, showing interest, doing things for you, letting you escalate sexually, etc…). Think about the conversation as you reaching down and lifting her up into your fun and interesting life. You don’t need to tear her down or fuck with her self-esteem. Treat with her respect and like she’s awesome, but keep in mind that you are equally awesome, and maybe even maybe more awesome. She should see the conversation as an audition to enter your fun and interesting life, and she should associate you with feelings of positivity and fun. You are a drug she gets high on and addicted to.
To prevent this article from not being too long, I won’t discuss sexual escalation – that will be the subject of a different article.
This article is divided into two sections: theory and practice.
As part of your fun and interesting life, the conversation should be fun and interesting for both you and her. Your “frame” for the conversation should be “I’m a fun and happy guy, and I’m talking to you because it’s fun.” It’s fun to laugh, learn things, and connect and share your awesome life with somebody who invests in you. Unfortunately, most guys’ idea of “fun” is to follow around a woman, buy her stuff, and beg her to hang out. These guys are too emotionally invested in women.
To have a fun conversation but not act too emotionally invested, talk about things that you passionately enjoy THAT ARE NOT HER. You can only emotionally invest in her and after she emotionally invests in you. Of course, you can compliment her clothes, talk about her hobbies, talk about her life, etc…, as long as you show that you are actually interested in those things for their own sake, and aren’t faking it just to get to her. It usually won’t take long for her to emotionally invest in a conversation enough to start talking about her.
Many guys are afraid to approach or talk to women who look “bitchy” and “cold.” That fear occurs when they are thinking too much about the woman and not enough about their own fun (in other words, they are too emotionally invested). Imagine you are a crackhead high on crack and you see a woman that you know has crack. A crackhead wouldn’t think “I’m scared to approach, what if she rejects me, she looks mean.” A crackhead would think “oh shit!! That lady has CRACK!! And I want some!!” Similarly, every girl is the source of a possible fun conversation. When you become confident and more invested in your own fun than her, words will just spill out of your mouth when you see a pretty girl or there is something interesting to talk about.
Don’t go into the conversation only hoping for sex. Focus on having fun and forming a connection. My good friend says “you should be more focused on laughing than getting laid.” Realistically, most women you talk to will not have sex with you, and if you go into the conversation thinking “I need to fuck!” you are already too emotionally invested. You must show sexual interest from the beginning of the conversation, but live in the moment and enjoy the conversation as fun for its own sake. After she invests and shows interest, however, you must escalate. A lot of guys “play it cool” and get the girl interested but continue to play it cool when they should be escalating. That’s also a mistake.
Not being emotionally invested is difficult because beautiful women create a reality distortion field that causes men to become stupid, needy, desperate, validating, etc... I wrote a whole other article on emotional investment but briefly, you should do the following things to not look or be emotionally invested:
• Don’t do anything for her she wouldn’t do for you (examples: buying her a drink, following her around, holding something for her, etc...)
• Keep other things in your thoughts and feelings while you are talking to her.
• Don’t change your behavior or curtail your fun to make her like you. Don’t supplicate to her or validate yourself to her.
• Stay relaxed and calm no matter what she says or does.
I use the “cheese pizza” method, where I direct my thoughts and feelings to something that I love (like cheese pizza, my painting hobby, or listening to Guns n’ Roses in my bedroom at 4 AM by myself), and treat the conversation with her as a side dish or dessert to my main thoughts.
Emotional investment is subconsciously communicated, and a woman can tell if you are too invested. Women don’t auto-reject guys because they are antisocial or because they are not “attracted” but because the guy shows too much emotional investment right from the beginning and feels creepy or like he will bring pressure and annoyingness.
Talking to women is like surfing. If you ride too forward on the wave, you fall off. If you are too behind on the wave, you never catch it at all. Similarly, when talking to a girl, if you are too emotionally invested, she will lose attraction because you are putting pressure on her. If you are not emotionally invested enough, you will look uninterested and she will emotionally invest elsewhere. Use your emotional intelligence to gauge emotionally invested she is, and then be slightly less invested. You reward her emotional investment by showing more and more interest. Compliments are fine, but your compliments can get “deeper” as her investment goes deeper. My compliment at the beginning may be “nice backpack” and later it may be “nice ass.” “Nice ass,” however, before she’s shown interest will come off as creepy and overly aggressive.
The “push-pull” technique helps you remain one step behind her in emotional investment. Occasionally “joke” about leaving (“oh you don’t like Oreo cheesecake? Sorry, I have to go.”), occasionally get distracted (“sorry, I’m listening, but look at the way that guy over there is dancing”), make her qualify herself (“you say you are the best employees at Arby’s, what’s so great about you?”), and generally make her feel like you might just leave at any time. You have to be very smart using this technique, because if you act too seriously, she might think you really lost interest or rejected her. Women take rejection very badly, so you need to make sure she feels “accepted’ the whole time.
My policy on teasing is that if a reasonable person will agree that she did something stupid or silly, I make fun of her for it. Example: “I can’t believe you pushed the door where it said ‘pull.’ You’re like the retarded kid in the Far Side cartoon.” Of course, you must use your emotional intelligence to make sure she’s not offended. If she feels like you are actually putting her down she will feel rejected and go look elsewhere. For example, if a girl says a word wrong I will make fun of her for it but I quickly pull back if I can tell she is insecure about people thinking she is stupid. I never, ever tease a girl about her weight and I also stay away from her appearance and other shit she can’t control. I also stay away from obvious shit she’s heard before or anything politically incorrect if I don’t know her. If she’s offended, give a brief apology (“You know I was joking, but I apologize anyway”), move on, and don’t let her dwell on it.
It’s good to disagree with her and challenge her, especially if you have a strong opinion on something. That said, don’t argue with her and don’t try to change her mind if it’s something she has her mind set on.
Although you should be genuinely interested in what she’s saying, you should subconsciously communicate that you are slightly less “into” the conversation than her. If she ignores something you say, ignore her for a while. If her body language “deflates,” you deflate more. If she starts looking around and breaking eye contact, you do the same, but worse – you may even want to leave and try to reconnect later. Look at her actions, not her words. What has she done for you? Is she following you around? Is she buying you things? Is she touching you? Again, you have to be smart about this so she doesn’t think you are playing games or that you are cutting her off.
A “mysterious” man is one who looks like he has a secret fun and interesting life that requires “work” by a woman to access. Mystery is related to transcendence. Humans naturally want something beyond our reach, that challenges us and expands our mind. Even if you have the most awesome life in the world, if a woman “figures you out” she loses the excitement and awe that comes with transcendence, and you become just another guy with pluses and minuses. Don’t spill the beans about all the interesting things you do right away. And never fully present your life to her – the moment she sees behind the curtain, you are no longer the Wizard of Oz.
A man living a fun and interesting life will necessarily be mysterious because he will more interested in pursuing his fun and interesting life than telling people about it. Furthermore, because a confident man cannot be constrained or controlled by anybody, he will necessarily be mysterious because he will do and say things that are out of the norm. I bring up crazy topics like the Syrian civil war, my plan for world peace, my plot to overthrow the government of Venezuela. If she’s not into it, I change the topic, but I want to let her know I live in a different reality.
Resilience is the ability to confidently pursue your goals and not let anything or anybody perturb you. Women are attracted to resilience because they naturally want a protector, and a protector’s commitment is only credible if he cannot be distracted from his mission, whatever the mission is is. If a protector becomes emotional, distracted, or submissive, he can no longer be trusted to protect. If you shoot a bullet at Superman and he flinches for even a moment you will think “oh shit, maybe he isn’t bulletproof.”
Resilience is joyful. A truly confident man that cannot be controlled by others and is destroying all obstacles in his way is necessarily joyful, because why wouldn’t he be? The “alpha” emotion is not stoicism, anger, or a “tough guy” attitude, but pure, unmitigated joy.
The opposite of resilience in anxiety. Anxiety exists for different reasons, but evolution created social anxiety to paralyze members of the tribe whenever they think they may do something that will upset or offend the alpha male. Although equality is great, evolution determined that a tribe is stronger if everybody follows a single mission (determined by the alpha male), rather than each person’s individual mission. If a man shows anxiety, he is subconsciously communicating that he is not the alpha male, he does not determine the mission, and worst of all, he can’t be trusted to lead the mission because he can perturbed and controlled by the real alpha male. This is why the classical image of the “lady’s man” is a smooth, calm, comfortable, relaxed, soft-spoken guy that doesn’t freak out no matter what happens.
If you are too emotionally invested and a woman feels like she can control you, that means that the alpha male can definitely control you. Therefore, do not supplicate to a woman, act anxious, validate yourself, or follow her around until she is emotionally invested in you.
Women subconsciously “shit test” men by raising doubts about the man to see if he reacts with anxiety. If he acts weird, angry, desperate, needy, creepy, stupid or generally “out of the ordinary,” or explains himself submissively, he fails because she knows he can be perturbed. Women subconsciously know that women are man’s strongest distraction.
You must dismiss a negative shit test as if you didn’t hear it or as if it was a joke. You can “agree and amplify,” so if she says “you are cheap” you can respond “that’s because I only make 36 cents a year” or if she says “are you a player” you say “yes, you’re the 26th girl I’ve had sex with today.” Many men fail shit tests because they take her statement as one of genuine concern. Whether or not she is actually concerned is not important, it’s how you react to the anxiety she emits. If she has a real concern (“did you lock your doors?”) answer confidently and don’t dwell on it or explain yourself (“yes, I did.”)
But beware- if the negative shit tests never stop, or become very disrespectful, leave – some women are just assholes and don’t want to fuck you. Even if she will fuck you, as a man you need to have some dignity and not tolerate disrespect from anybody.
Women also shit test men by saying things like “I get really horny when I’m drunk” to see if she can faze and control him with her sexuality. Men fail this test if they get overly excited and act stupid or submissive. The right answer is to laugh and not be perturbed. I might say something like “Good for you, sweetie. I hope for your sake you don’t fuck this up” or “good news! Me too” and change the subject.
The emotional connection
Women are attracted to resilient men because they need an physical and emotional “rock.” You become an emotional rock by listening to her anxiety-laden thoughts (shit tests, problems, etc…), filtering them through your confidence, and returning them back to her purified and without anxiety. A conversation with a woman is often an interview where she asks “how would you deal with this problem if?” and your answer is “I would do nothing because it’s not a problem to me.” You must acknowledge her feelings so you don’t look like a cold asshole, but make sure to not also have those feelings. Even if you can think of a rational solution to a problem she has, a solution is an acknowledgement that you see the problem as a problem and therefore you may ALSO feel some anxiety about it. If you feel anxiety, you cannot be an emotional rock. Sound incredibly irrational and stupid? It is, but that’s how human emotions work.
Her: This girl at my work is going around telling people I’m a slut, and I’m getting really upset.
The wrong way to respond: That’s totally inappropriate for a workplace and you need to go complain to HR. They will probably reprimand her and maybe even fire her.
The right way to respond: That’s awesome! I understand you’re upset, but she’s only saying that because she is jealous of you. I love haters! My philosophy is that if you’re talking about my dick, I’m the winner. (Laugh and then change the subject.)
This poor girl feels upset because her coworker is calling her a slut and she probably feels too much anxiety to confront anyone to fix it. The first response is rationally correct and marginally better than what she actually does. But going to HR and complaining about the gossiper is still a stressful and anxiety-laden process. A woman responding like the guy making the second response, however, would have been laughing and having fun the whole time. Her “problem” wouldn’t have even been a problem.
If she actually has a difficult problem you can’t just laugh off or dismiss, you should still dismiss it if she has not yet emotionally invested in you or done anything to deserve your concern. Sometimes a girl will drop a bomb like “I was raped when I was little” or “my grandfather just died.” The proper reaction is “I’m very sorry to hear that” and change the subject. If you are in a real relationship with her where she is emotionally invested, you should help, but until then, you have the right to dismiss her problems because you are not her therapist.
A conversation is a service
Most people are terrible at conversations because they are selfish. They use the conversation to brag, rant, put others down, talk about themselves, talk about things nobody else cares about, etc... Most people don’t listen in conversations; they just wait until it is their turn to talk.
You can make anybody in a conversation feel good by being the #2 in the conversation. Let her talk about herself and what interests her.
There isn’t much reason for a man to talk in a conversation. Talking a lot is usually an expression of anxiety. What do you need to tell her so badly? She doesn’t give a fuck about you or your life, she only cares about her own emotions. When people talk, it’s usually for supplication, validation, begging, asking, complaining, ranting, venting, bragging, pushing their beliefs on other people, talking just to hear themselves talk, or thinking out loud, and those are things a man should not be doing. Men do, they don’t talk. Your only talking should be to guide the conversation, tell her the plan (e.g., “we are going to the other bar next”), give her opportunities to spray her anxiety at you so you can dissipate it, and to express the fun you’re having. You can express joy, excitement, laughter, and other positive emotions if she does something (or something happens) that generally causes you to have fun. But if she’s not giving positivity, then you will have nothing to say because you are less emotionally invested than her.
In every conversation, there is a “giver” and a “taker.” If a nobody rapper strikes up a conversation with Jay-Z at a club, Jay-Z is the “giver” because it the nobody rapper has nothing to offer Jay-Z, whereas Jay-Z has everything to offer the nobody rapper. The giver/taker dichotomy exists in the parties’ emotions, regardless of whether anybody actually gives or takes anything. Even if Jay-Z does not actually give the guy what he wants (a record deal, a shout out in his songs, etc…) Jay-Z “feels” like he is “giving” the guy something simply by being there.
In the ape world, the alpha male controls all the resources, and the other apes obey him so they can get some of his scraps. The alpha male, therefore, is always the giver and never the taker because the alpha male needs nothing from anybody. Those ape emotions carry into the human world, so we still “feel” like there is a giver and taker no matter what the actual material circumstances are. A rich investment banker slobbering over a stripper at a strip club is a “giver” because of the money he spends, but he “feels” like a taker when he talks to the stripper because he needs her more than she needs him. Sound contradictory? It really isn’t – you just have to realize that the frame created by reality and the one created by our emotions are different.
The giver/taker distinction is subtle and subconsciously communicated. From a giver, “what book are you reading” sounds like an invitation for the person to talk about a book they are enjoying. From a taker, “what are you reading” sounds like an annoying question prodding into their business.
You don’t need to obsess over whether you are giver or a taker – just don’t be too emotionally invested. If you are not emotionally invested in her, she will not be in your thoughts and emotions, therefore you will not “want” anything from her, and therefore you will not be a taker. There’s nothing wrong with “some” taking in a conversation – after all, you should be enjoying the conversation too – but she should feel like she is taking more. You don’t want to feel like an annoying drain.
What can you give her? First your mere presence, time and attention is a huge gift. A man with a valuable mission only gives his time and attention to deserving people. Your other gift is your confidence and your open mind and heart, which lets her talk and dissipate her anxiety through you. All most people want is somebody to listen to our worries, anxieties, pain, frustrations, joy, hopes, and dreams. Therapy is mostly just a person listening. You can provide a woman value by finding out what is weighing on her mind (relationships, family, career, spirituality, her health, her future, etc…), and letting her talk. The deeper and more important, the better.
Another gift is joy - being around a happy, joyful person makes us happy too (this is related to dissipating her anxiety). Not being emotionally invested is also a gift – it is rare for a beautiful woman to find a man who is not immediately seeking to “take” from them. Smaller gifts are providing an interesting conversation, being funny, telling her your interesting opinions, being a good role model to her, leading her around and showing her your interesting life, teaching her things, etc…
Leading from behind
You must control and lead the conversation while letting her talk about herself. You must subconsciously and consciously choose the topics, assert your boundaries, challenge her and disagree with her at certain points, add value when appropriate, and dissipate her anxiety. Women need to be accepted so you must not let her feel weird, awkward, or abandoned. You must have a plan which you verbalize as it unfolds so she can follow. If you are going to go to the bathroom, clearly and confidently say “I’m going to the bathroom right now, I’ll see you soon.” Going to get a drink? Say “hey let’s get a drink right now.”
You should not let her talk about stuff that does not interest you. Listening to boring bullshit is the opposite of what a guy with a fun, interesting life would do. She will be able to tell you are not having fun. Women sometimes talk about stupid and boring things to subtly shit test you. If you fail, you look like 1) you are trying to manipulate her by pretending to care, or 2) you are her “conversation servant” with no backbone of your own, making you look weak and perturbed. Women don’t need sex bad enough to listen to boring guys and neither should you. If a woman tries to talk about some other guy she’s interested in, I will say “I don’t give a fuck about the guys in your life.” It may sound rude, but she knows she was being rude. If she complains about something insignificant I say “who cares?” If she’s talking about something girly like make-up, I will just say “Sorry, I don’t know anything about that.” If she says something stupid or useless, I just won’t respond. Remember the way the cool kids in high school would roll their eyes when a nerd would ruin a conversation by saying something nerdy? She should feel like you might do that.
A conversation is a Venn diagram – there is a circle of stuff that is interesting to you and a circle of stuff that is interesting to her. Your conversation should be where those circles intersect. Guys who say “nothing about girls is interesting” are wrong. Everybody has something interesting about them – most likely, you are too wrapped up in your own egos and desires to see that. How can you not enjoy talking to somebody that WANTS you to be dominant?
Scanning is when you try to figure out the deepest, most important thing she wants to talk about. Starting a conversation requires emotional intelligence, creativity, the ability to “read” her, empathy, and most importantly, practice, so I can’t give you a perfect “line” that works every time. Most guys are awful at scanning because they are wrapped up in their own egos, desires and anxieties.
Analyze all the data. How is she dressed? Where are we? Who is she with? Women at EDM festivals are probably thinking about drugs, DJs and partying. Women at upscale bars and lounges are probably into their career or success. Older women want more intelligent conversations. Younger women are worried about their future. Etc…
Obviously, most women are not ready to pour out their heart to a stranger they just met, so you usually start with something superficial, and then dig deeper as the conversation goes on.
I often start with “hey, how are you” and then:
• What did you do today?
• What brought you out tonight? Is there a special event?
• Do you come here often? I’ve never seen you here before.
• Do you know X? He’s having a party here tonight.
These seem like trivial, superficial questions but they are designed to get her talking about what she cares about. “What did you do today?” will bring out the thing most on her mind that day. “What brought you out tonight?” gives you a window into her mindset. “Do you come here often?” shows what kind of places she likes to go. Etc...
I like to start as deep as possible, but if those lines feel too invasive for a particular situation, you can start more superficial, like an observation: “hey nice sneakers,” “nice backpack, you look like you’re carrying around contraband.” Follow it up with an assumption: “you look like are kind of a hippie” or “you look like you’re from LA.” Observations and assumptions must be authentic: you must really think her sneakers are cool or that she’s from LA. Women can sense fakeness. You can also comment on something in the environment at the time (“this DJ is great!” or “did you see the fight outside”) and then ask more probing questions as the conversation progresses. Use your emotional intelligence to know when to press the gas and go deeper.
Don’t make the conversation an interview. The goal is to find what’s important to her and then create an interesting conversation from that, not just to ask questions for the sake of asking questions. You can use “deep listening” to find what she really cares about, by trying to sense what she is emotionally tied to.
Her: “I hung out with my parents this weekend.”
Me: “What did you guys do?”
Her: “We went ice skating.”
Boring response by me: “oh, how was that?”
Deep response by me: “Ok, so who’s better at ice skating? You or your parents?”
The deep response seeks her deeper emotions: competitiveness, her relationship with her parents, etc… Of course, she might not be impressed with this question and say “eh we’re both the same” That’s ok. Just try again.
If the girl isn’t giving you anything or is being uninteresting, don’t feel pressure to push the conversation. She needs to impress you, not vice versa. Don’t be afraid of awkward silences and don’t be afraid of losing interest. Remember, you have a fun and interesting life that you can always return to and she should feel that.
Threading is when you use something she says as a springboard to a new topic. Chaining works best with deep listening, because picking out some random word or topic she brings up is less effective than finding out that she deeply cares about. Threading is much better than asking a bunch of random, unconnected questions.
Me: Where are you going on vacation?
Me: Do you have a particular site you want to see?
Her: Well, me and my friends are going to splurge on really fancy restaurants.
Me: Oh, is there a particular restaurant you are excited about?
Her: [Blah blah blah]
Me: So you’re a foodie?
I’m digging to find something she’s passionate about. Although being a foodie is a passion, I want to find something deeper and more fundamental.
I found something she cares about, what now?
When you find something she cares about, make the conversation about positive feelings (hers to a large extent, yours to a smaller extent). You may need to get her started by talking about your feelings. At a music festival I may say “my favorite DJ is X, and the best day of my life is when I did molly and saw him at Y festival.” I don’t tell this story because she cares (even though she might), but because I want to her to tell me about her favorite experience. Girls are shy and sometimes afraid to express themselves, so I open the door to form a connection.
Keep the conversation about positive and deep feelings, not just “I had a delicious sandwich today.” Good topics are karma, relationships, your quest for success, God, spirituality, etc... Stay away from negative feelings, and if you do talk about negative feelings, talk about them in a funny, lighthearted way that takes away the anxiety associated with those feelings.
When a subject runs its natural course, go deep about something else. You may need to step back a few steps in the chain. For example, in the earlier example we went far afield of the original topic (her trip to London) and start talking about food, but now that I have that chain in my mind I can go back and talk about London again (“so what else are you excited about seeing in London”).
TheRedArchive is an archive of Red Pill content, including various subreddits and blogs. This post has been archived from the blog Woujo.
|Title||How to have a conversation with a woman|
|Date||September 19, 2017 6:48 PM UTC (5 years ago)|
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