On locality of sexual marketplaces and the implications on game - The Double Down

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February 13, 2014

I've been having a conversation with a few of my red friends for the past few months, trying to wrap my mind around this issue, and I thought I'd open it up for discussion here. I think that it's pretty well known that the sexual market can be affected by such things as actual male-to-female ratios in certain geographic regions, education rates, job availability, and other things..

But something we don't really talk about much is to what extent it affects us, our game, and women's attitudes. For example, we speak of women as a group and their general tendencies, but we haven't discussed variations in these tendencies based on local markets. We discuss differences in behavior based on relative

We have users discussing strategies with each other, and I feel as though there's a communication gap. For instance, we see a field report in which one of our all-star endorsed contributors posts how he plays it fast and loose and wins. Experiences that might seem incredible if I hadn't experienced similar things myself- but it occurs to me that the "no-bro, you gotta do it xyz way" is a relatively poor form of reasoning if we don't consider local market variations.

I consider this because I personally cut my teeth in a region where women are constantly on hard mode. Regular game that would work anywhere else causes women here to double down on their behavior. They bet big and apparently feel their risks at shit testing and beta-tization are worth it. I'm assuming it's because men here are desperate. There are probably about 15:1 guys to women at bars near me, and even fat chicks get approached by guys I think are fitter and better looking than myself. Surely this is a skewed market. And it intrigues me.

The Double Down

I casually saw a bartender last summer who knew I was spinning plates but obviously secretly planned to take ownership of me- she started clasping down after a few months, in an attempt to modify my behavior to her liking. She gave herself plausible deniability that allowed for her attempts to look innocent enough. We went a week without talking, mostly because I had been under the weather, when I saw her again afterwards, she was upset that I hadn't contacted her sooner. She used phrases like "I just would like to hear from you a little more often, you know?" and "it's no big deal you could've called me." Of course, she had equal opportunity to contact me, but this detail would never enter into conversation, as this wouldn't be a rational conversation. Her desire was to curb my behavior and turn me into the beta she wanted, the one that reaffirmed her, and the one that would eventually be on a short enough leash that it was harder for me to see other girls.

I told her that I don't like making too many phone calls, especially when I'm sick. She tried to tighten her grip and decided to put up a fit- giving me the cold shoulder because I couldn't be fussed to show her a little that I care. I knew the slippery slope I was on, and the inch I'd give would become a mile. So I soft-nexted her. A few days later, no contact, she decided that I was being a real asshole for ignoring her for a few days, and demanded an apology for treating her this way.

My experience with soft-nexting or freezeouts, especially on a shit test like this, is that they will relent if you call their bluff. If you don't have proper sexual market value, they won't relent and just walk away. But instead, we experience option 3: the double down. It was clear that my relative sexual market value was diminished by our locality- but it wasn't a clear-cut low value guy getting next'd by a woman- it was a high value guy getting double-down'd by a woman in an environment she was convinced she could call the shots on. Of course, I didn't allow it, but, what advantage is it to me to walk away if this is the environment I'm in?

Ice fishing seems cold, so maybe I'll stay inside. But if you want to fish, eventually you put on some boots and a coat and deal with it?

The Girl With the Ex-Boyfriend

Another plate I was spinning around the same time was a single mother who, after a few months of dating, eventually let on that her ex-boyfriend (baby daddy) was abusive. Of course, I take such stories with a grain of salt because honestly I don't know one woman without some sob story like that (it cheapens it when every woman has the same complaint). But, whatever. So one evening we're out for a stroll after having dinner at a rather nice place (I like to indulge) when she gets a call. Her kid was with dad for the weekend (giving us the evening to do as we pleased). Her phone starts ringing and she got visibly tense. She tells me that she hates it when he calls because he just calls to bitch about her parenting skills. She ignores it, but doesn't stop the ringer. He calls back multiple times, each time she refuses to answer. I suggest she mute her phone or turn it off if she's not going to answer it. She asks me to take her back, (we were in one car, her car was at my house). So we get in the car where she eventually mutes her phone after my third request, and sits quietly on her side of the car, all tensed up.

I mean, obviously this chick has some baggage. I suppose I'd be less tolerant of the baggage if I had ever met a girl without some crippling psychological issue, but this seems to be par for the course, ages 18 - 40.

So we get to my place, and I invite her upstairs. She tersely says no, that she has to go home. I ask her what's up, she won't answer. So I just say, "alright whatever, bye" and go inside- no kiss or anything.

A day passes, and no contact. I'm curious when she's going to apologize for this behavior.

The next day I hear from her- I say "I was wondering when I'd hear from you.." she goes "what did you want me to say?" I go "well an apology seems like a good start..."

What happens? She doubles down.

She can't be fussed to consider that her behavior was absolutely unacceptable. I briefly mention that I don't like the idea of an ex boyfriend interrupting and abruptly ending our dates if there isn't an emergency. She demands that I tolerate her behavior, in so many words. That she can't help it and that I should've been more understanding.

She wanted the beta. And she was willing to bet it all for it. And it actively got rid of me, that was the very minute I next'd her.

Doubling down is counter-intuitive... maybe?

Is doubling down a good strategy? For women looking for beta- perhaps it's effective at weeding out men who won't go all the way. Perhaps it's short sighted, and these women don't yet realize the alpha they crave and the beta they're pushing for won't exist in the same person. Perhaps they're betting it all because they feel the market best favors them?

These are red pill principles, in a completely different market, having very different outcomes. I'm very interested in this, so much so, that I tried beta game with my most recent experiment.

She wanted beta, and I gave it to her. I even bought her flowers one day after we got in a small argument (that she caused, but I resolved with beta-tude). She regularly commented about how she's looking for a long-term commitment, and how she was nervous that she wouldn't find one. This, I think, caused her to turn the beta-ray to 11.

Even with my concessions, I figured I'd have to keep my normal game around at least 3 or 4 instead of the normal 8 to 10. But here, we saw her butting heads with it in her ever increasing attempts to make me into her little beta. She wanted me to do as she requested, throwing mini fits if she didn't get her way. I attempted to appease somewhat, holding my ground on only the manner she attempted to communicate her requests, but not on the requests themselves. Eventually we got to an impasse, she was upset that I had been out of communication during the day when she was going through some trouble. I had contacted her after I was done at work, but it was a long day for me, so it wasn't until after 8pm. She threw her passive aggressive remarks suggesting that I was purposefully ignoring her, whereas I wasn't. I stood my ground, "no, I was working, and simply did not have time to call you, and I do not appreciate the implication you just made."

She doubled down. She demanded I should have made time and that I was unreasonable.

After two such arguments over the course of a few weeks, I walked.

She failed at her goal.

What is doubling down doing for these women? How does local geography affect this? How does it affect approaches? Women here have worse bitch shields than most I've read about.

I'm curious to see people's thoughts on this. Also, I will not be providing my actual location for anonymity's sake.

Post Information
Title On locality of sexual marketplaces and the implications on game - The Double Down
Author redpillschool
Upvotes 145
Comments 105
Date 13 February 2014 07:26 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/11293
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/1xtsc8/on_locality_of_sexual_marketplaces_and_the/
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[–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet84 points85 points  (30 children) | Copy

In my experience, "doubling down" is a strategy common to women who have abundant access to validation. And like all female strategies which are undisciplined by proper upbringing, it is short-sighted and entirely in service to her need to feel instant emotional gratification.

It's a very poor sexual strategy for women's long term goals of happiness, though they don't know it.

Remember, the taxes of common men are tithed to western women via the cuckold state. Everything in our media and collective consciousness screams that women deserve to be entitled. As a result of all this, women are unaccustomed to having things expected of them. Life is just a big game of Where's My Free Shit Coming From Next?

So a double down is just a re-assertion of her hamster's need to feel that she is important, that she is special, that she is valued and protected. If you don't give in to her demands, she's only a text message or Facebook post away from her personal army of validation-dispensing orbiters and yes-girls.

I live in Los Angeles, and the at rate with which women bitch-eject from uncomfortable situations here you'd think men with five-figure salaries had communicable leprosy.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 22 points23 points  (21 children) | Copy

Very apt analysis. Thanks for this.

So the question is, is this all western women due to technology or are we seeing local pockets of overly validated women?

[–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet64 points65 points  (14 children) | Copy

It changes depending on the individual woman's access to validation.

Let me give you two examples:

Example 1: I went on a date with Los Angeles girl. She was the very definition of the reckless gambler.

I met her for lunch at a gastropub near downtown. She was waiting out front by the door when I saw her. We greeted one another from afar, and to get some early kino in I opened the door and touched her shoulder, urging her gently as we walked inside.

From that moment, she immediately went on the defensive. For the remainder of our "date", she kept finding excuses to mention all of the things she wouldn't do. She mentioned her limited time, her stressful job, and (almost unbelievably) her schedule of dates for the rest of the week.

I ate my food in silence and threw her significant glances each time she said something I disapproved of. Her response to my silences was to double down, re-asserting her firm stance on what she'd said. But I held my ground. As you said yourself RPS, a inch becomes a mile on that slippery slope.

At one point, she pulled out her phone, her thumbs hammering away on it.

At the end of the lunch hour, I unceremoniously got up, wished her the "best of luck out there", and left.

Example 2: I went on a date with a Yosemite girl. I met her while I was on a week-long hiking retreat. I had just come back from a long day on the John Muir trail, and I wanted a big meal, so I stopped at a steak restaurant in a sleepy little mountain town that services tourists. She was my hostess.

We hit it off right away. She was wonderfully feminine, and seemed overwhelmed and amazed when I told her I came from LA. She couldn't imagine how life was like there, all fast-paced and crazy. I asked for her cell number but she became distraught and said she didn't have one. Instead, she asked if I wouldn't mind meeting up with her the following night, since she'd be off of work. We agreed on another local restaurant where she was sure that no one knew her.

When I showed up, she was dressed like a proper lady. She had a simple skirt and blouse, and her hair was gloriously down. My fucking heart was doing back-flips.

We had a good talk during our date, she said she spent most of her time on her family's 10 acres of land, going on adventures along the stream that ran through it. But although she admitted to having some boyish interests like hiking and fishing, she swore that she wasn't "one of those tomboys".

Yosemite girl was completely insulated from all the hamster bombardment that typically occurs in modernized societies. Her feminine upbringing was untainted by access to social networking and feminist media. And she was concerned enough about her reputation in the small town to find a restaurant where no one knew her, and to insist to me that her "unfeminine interests" were not an impediment to her femininity. She valued both her own femininity and my masculinity, and the polarity of our sexual behaviours made the evening absolutely electrifying.

I'll admit something almost unbelievable to you here and now: to this very day (almost a year later) I still think about Yosemite girl. I still remember her name, and her smile, and the way she stood with her wrists together while we waited to be seated, and the little scar on her lower lip from her nervous biting habit.

I fell for that girl hard.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 25 points26 points  (3 children) | Copy

So, just gotta find myself a small town girl with no cell phone..

[–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet18 points19 points  (1 child) | Copy

That's why expatriation is all the rage.

Alternatively...ever been hiking in Yosemite?

[–]football10102 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

bush women are all the rage !

[–]peopleofthepine2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I don't know. I came from a very small town where hunting, fishing & driving in the mud were the top 3 forms of entertainment. The cowboy or country boy was the most common stereotype. I however was more like a hippy computer nerd that had been bitten by a vampire. The shit tests were very uncommon from the country girls I went after. Most would just say ”you're weird ” to which I would say "thanks". It was very easy to progress to sex without resistance.

Years later when I wanted to meet my equal of a "college educated hippy chick”, I was shit tested more than I ever had been in my life. Maybe I was more invested in the outcome or I could have been seen as more of an equal.

I'm curious. How much do you stand out from your environment?

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

That's interesting as fuck, and makes absolute sense.

[–]phoneprofile9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

What happened with Yosemite girl? Sounded like potential for primary plate or even ltr?

[–]Senior Contributordeepthrill3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy

I fell for that girl hard.

Is there a follow-up to this story? Why did the contact stop? Did you want to spin plates and she didn't either? Or was the distance just too far and it was a weekend fling?

[–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet20 points21 points  (3 children) | Copy

The distance is too far. It's an eight-hour drive from Los Angeles to the greater Yosemite area, and since she didn't have either a phone or a computer that she didn't have to share with the rest of her family, it made a continued relationship with her all but impossible.

But make no mistake, I would have girl-friended the hell out of her.

I'm actually going back to Yosemite this year. I'll be staying at the same lodge I stayed last time. It odds are very fucking slim, but I'm hoping I'll see her again.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Wish you had her cell number or something.... wait....

[–]football1010-3 points-2 points  (0 children) | Copy

How much does a phone and plan cost in the US ? It's a bit of a hassle but it couldn't be that expensive. Get her hooked up.

[–]ryeprotagonist2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

"best of luck out there" - LOVE that

[–]dr_bloodmoney0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This reminds me of a story. I went hiking in the Gila Wilderness for a week. When we got out, we drove to Silver City to eat a steak. Mind you, I'm dirty as fuck. I have a lot of tattoos (which many of you don't approve of that's fine). The waitress, in her 60's, comes up to me and gives me some coconut cream pie and big hug and says "You remind me of my son and know you need a big ol' hug!!!" Gives me a big hug and some pie. Small towns. People are decent. This was the highlight of my whole trip.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Women like Yosemite girl are rare even in small towns. I live in the ass end of Nowhere, Missouri and I count myself lucky to even bump into a girl who isn't obese, never mind fuckable. Their self-perceived SMVs are through the roof regardless because local men really don't get any better women...

...and as a result I see plenty of fat, balding local men walking around with their 6/7 Filipino wives. When local supply is lacking, men will import.

[–]Endorsed Contributorpontifx16 points17 points  (2 children) | Copy

Daddy state, best friend facebook, cool friend instagram, fashion friend pinterest funny friend imgur, weird friend 4chan. It's validation overload. In norcal its better to be the dude the girl is texting instead of the dude right in front of her most of the time because all of their "friends" have made them more receptive to that kind of interaction.

As for bitch shields I don't really see them getting weaker any time soon. How could they?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

The times I've bumped to girls on 4chan, validation was not one thing that they seemed to get. Attention, yes, but validation, no. Unless the girl is a complete masochist.

[–]elevul0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

/r/gonewild on the other side...

[–]RedSunBlue4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

Here's something interesting.


According to that survey, Americans don't share as much about themselves online compared to the world average. Of course, that survey seems obviously limited in several ways (what does sharing "everything" or "most things" mean), but it could indicate that rampant validation seeking on social media is only a symptom of some deeper issue.

[–]Knight_of_autumn3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

I have found that many people have absolutely no idea just how much they are sharing online. Going through anyone's facebook that is a friend of a friend, it is quite easy to build their full profile and know what they like, where they go and what they do there.

In fact, it is always hilarious to see girls put up tumblr blogs that they devote many hours to complaining about their day and then say "omg, how do you know that about me! Are you stalking me?! Creep!" Always gives me a good case of the giggles!

[–]ryeprotagonist3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Locality must be a strong factor in the frequency of the Double-Down.

I live in a city that has become notorious as a desert for men who seek high-value women and can verify that the Double-Down has become a regular feature in the playbook of even middling value women here.

As the entitlement rises, so does the predisposition for a girl to Double-Down on you in an attempt to put you in your place.

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

It strikes me that the reason for this is not so much media influence (though that plays a part), but the market dynamics of women having front-ended value before men do. A typical woman goes through her teenage years with constant validation and attention, whereas a typical man does not, simply due to age-based SMV differences between genders.

Combine that with easy access to social networking tools, and a girl is never starved for that attention she craves. Which leads to expectations and entitlement.

[–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet21 points22 points  (0 children) | Copy

Indeed. I've spoken on this subject before.

The basic problem is this: the time in a woman's life when her SMV is highest is also the time when she has almost no experience in using it, and no discipline in administering it.

With that kind of power and seeming impunity, anyone would get a great big ego. And that's precisely what happens.

And then, she hits 30.

That's why early female education in feminine etiquette is so crucial.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is really interesting. You have a talent for putting into words things that I've noticed and felt, but couldn't really put my finger on.

[–]suscitare0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Sounds like Melbourne, Australia.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

This is a pretty common phenomenon in Melbourne as well, especially amongst the large segments of socialist left uni students that populate areas like Fitzroy and Brunswick.

[–]suscitare2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Good to see an fellow Australian here. I'm thinking of organizing a meet-up for fellow ozzie red-pillers. Nothing too formal just a meet up in a pub somewhere. Let me know.

[–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Remember, the taxes of common men are tithed to western women via the cuckold state.


[–]MartialWay-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

I live in Los Angeles, and the at rate with which women bitch-eject from uncomfortable situations here you'd think men with five-figure salaries had communicable leprosy.

Humansockpuppet wins the Internet today!

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (0 children) | Copy

The double down is just a hug box dynamic.

When you see it work every fucking time in your books, movies, whatever, you assume it works.

You know, that big dramatic scene where she lays it all on the line and he crumbles and gives in and they live happily ever after? It is so over used that it's a cliche.

Doubling down is something women- men do this too, but typically relationship and social dynamics mean that they won't do it with someone they're dating unless there's some weird ass circumstances- do as an irrational response to something they don't understand.

Being blunt, they haven't realized you're your own person, and they can't direct your actions and behaviors at will.

[–]1mrust13 points14 points  (1 child) | Copy

I think part of it is just too much validation. I know women like this.

They are surrounded by so much reinforcement to their poor behavior that it just doesn't enter their head that she could be in the wrong.

I think that dealing with this you have to be a bit tricky. You cannot confront them head-on because they will never change their minds. You write that you were standing your ground but what I think will work better is if you reframe.

In your examples I see you giving logical reasons for why you didn't call the two girls (sick/busy). This may work when you have the clear advantage but her perception of your relative SMV in these distorted markets means you have to up your game and be a ninja instead of a boxer.

Confuse, distort, distract, agree and amplify.

"You're the one ignoring me." <--- reframe that she is the one not listening to your needs

[–]TRP VanguardJP_Whoregan29 points30 points  (17 children) | Copy

How much ass were you able to get out of the single mom? I find it HIGHLY rare that a single mom has the sort of indignant attitude you describe here. Most single moms I run into in my area are VERY open to acquiesce to an early panty drop, regardless of your SMV. Maybe not right after they pop out the fuck trophy, but after 4 or 5 years, they realize their friends have slowly evaporated, they don't get invited to bars by their friends anymore, and henceforth, the alpha dick dries up right, quick, and in a hurry.

So what happens is this: they start to panic that no high SMV man is gonna want them or their baggage, and they find themselves getting very, very lonely. I've had them confess to me that "it's actually just nice to have an adult conversation once in a while." Remember, nobody's calling or texting her anymore, and the daily routine of daycare/work/daycare/watch Sesame Street until baby falls asleep gets very old, very fast.

And the thing is, most of the time, they KNOW that they aren't your only plate, and they don't care. If they can get out on a date when daddy has visitation, get adult conversation that doesn't involve arguments over child support, and get romped in the sack like she hasn't been in years, she's happy as a clam, and she really doesn't quite give a shit that you're fucking other girls.

The key, though is this, and it leads to my next question: how many times per week were you seeing single mommy? I find that any more than twice a week will get their hamster spinning about "maybe he's the one", "oh, maybe he can help raise my fuck trophy", etc, etc...I know that push/pull and making yourself scarce is a basic RP principle, but this is ESPECIALLY true with single mothers. They will develop attachment issues quick. Make it clear you are here to give her some light adult conversation, then get blown, then laid, then you're getting lost.

And never, ever, ever, EVER meet her kid(s). Ever.

[–]SwordfshII11 points12 points  (11 children) | Copy

I had a single mom that turned more entitled than 90% of girls. Constantly seeking validation from all men around, expecting others to be at her beck and call, pushing rudeness to the max. Soon as the baby was at dad's, out at the bars each night.

[–]1PaulRivers1019 points20 points  (10 children) | Copy

In some cases there's a reason why she's a single mom. The man said "I would rather pay child support for the next 18 years than live with that [email protected]#[email protected]".

[–]SwordfshII2 points3 points  (9 children) | Copy

She filed because he was "unhappy constantly." I know why she is a single mom and why he was unhappy.... and it was her doing

[–]TRP VanguardJP_Whoregan11 points12 points  (8 children) | Copy

Women file for divorce in 70% of divorce cases. And it's always "I'm unhaaapy". And it's even worse if their kids are females, because now that mommy despises men, she will invariably raise her daughter to detest and mistrust men. Did you ever hear the phrase, "don't do that! you're just like your faaaather!"

[–]The_Determinator7 points8 points  (6 children) | Copy

you're just like your faaaather!"

Since gradeschool.

[–]TRP VanguardJP_Whoregan4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy

Sorry you had to endure that, friend.

[–]The_Determinator1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

Meh, I don't see it as the attack it's meant to be anymore. Stoic Neo-dodge that shit lol.

[–]TRP VanguardJP_Whoregan1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

Better yet, take it as a compliment ;)

[–]The_Determinator1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Well... not exactly. I wouldn't want to be like either of them, not too much at least.

[–]ryeprotagonist0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

and of the other 30%, the woman is the one pushing the man to do it...

[–]MartialWay1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

daycare/work/daycare/watch Sesame Street until baby falls asleep gets very old, very fast.

And the thing is, most of the time, they KNOW that they aren't your only plate, and they don't care. If they can get out on a date when daddy has visitation, get adult conversation that doesn't involve arguments over child support, and get romped in the sack like she hasn't been in years, she's happy as a clam, and she really doesn't quite give a shit that you're fucking other girls.

The deathgrip Family Court has on the American father and family is tighter every day. She has every weekend free because that's when she let's him have his visitation. Any other day he's eager to accept like a crumb too, anything to reverse the unstoppable wave of Parental Alienation...

get adult conversation that doesn't involve arguments over child support,...

You must live in a good state, as the nanny state takes over, there are no arguments over Child Support anymore, there are just straight up legal muggings, with automatic jail time if you lose your job and can't keep up.

[–]TRP VanguardJP_Whoregan3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

My ex's ex-husband was apparently making money "under the table" that she found out about. She had 2 kids by him, and even though I was being a beta chump at the time and paying all the bills and we weren't financially strapped, she still wanted to go after him for more money, because, you know, it's the "principle of the matter". Commence hamster spinning.

In retrospect, after seeing her greed on full display, I kinda felt sorry for the guy.

[–]dr_bloodmoney0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

So what happens is this: they start to panic that no high SMV man is gonna want them or their baggage, and they find themselves getting very, very lonely.

My experience is that they rationalize: "I'm just not like that any more. I've changed. I really see things differently now." Source: I still have to talk to my ex-wife - who was basically a high class HB 9 call girl/stripper. I'll tell that story another day.

[–]colovick0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Sounds like my ex... She comes around saying "I've changed" every time she gets tired of a current boyfriend and wants to rekindle things while keeping the boyfriend

[–]16 MGaiusScaevolus15 points16 points  (21 children) | Copy

My part of the US is just as bad, if not worse. I used to go out with a couple buds on the weekends, and regularly see relatively high value men shot down by 5s and 6s. It's gotten to the point that the best looking guy in our group actually finds online dating to be more worth his time than going out at night. Think about that, Girls on POF and OKC have SMALLER bitch shields than the average chick at a bar. On the plus side, my little group has tighter game than 99% of people. So when we have traveled, success seems to come easy.

Anyways, as far as the Double-down, It's a high risk high reward strategy. However, in localities with significantly more men than women, the cost of the strategy is much lower.

As an analogy, imagine you own the only gas station in 300 miles, you can basically name your price. Some driver's won't pay your exorbitantly high prices, maybe because they have fuel efficient vehicles that get 500 miles per tank, or maybe they filed their spare gas cans in the city, where there are 7 stations competing for business, thus keeping there costs reasonable. Either way, you don't care. Because for every 1 that passes you, 4 will stop. So you're still rolling in cash.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (16 children) | Copy

I'm in a very similar situation. I find that whenever I travel (Washington D.C., Philly, Tampa, Austin, Seattle, Denver) I have a much easier time with women. Maybe these northern New England women in my neck of the woods are just bred to be ferocious bitches and everything south of Boston seems easy... I just don't know.

Perhaps it has something to do with the "on vacation" mentality that allows me to see the women differently??

[–]ADPowers0016 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy

I don't mean to offend but what do you think of Boston women? I was there last year and noticed most really do look a lot like the sisters in The Fighter. Attractive women seem few and far between when there's a ton of high value men there. I love that city but I wouldn't want to be single there.

[–]BellatorCordis3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Boston women tend to be more highly educated than other women (Harvard, MIT, Northeastern, BU, Suffolk....), and as a result feel more entitled and valuable. The result is a lot of women who think too highly of themselves, usually to their own detriment.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy

I don't take offense - a man must be in control of his emotions.

The women are TERRIBLE. There are some attractive girls, no doubt, but on average I think they are so used to being put on a pedestal and grow up with the Boston princess mentality.

You could say hello to any of these girls, and no matter who you are unless you play for the Red Sox, Bruins, Celtics, or Patriots - they are going to say "go fuck yourself faggot." If you want to build up your approach anxiety and practice on women that will verbally eviscerate you, Boston is a great place to become a veteran.

Won't buy them a drink? Fuck you.

Interested in buying them a drink? Fuck you, why don't you have bottle service?

Bottle service? Fuck you, pour a drink for all my fat italian girlfriends and then we're leaving!

[–]gstring_jihad0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'm curious where you go out in Boston, as I have not experienced the attitude problems too much, with the exception of some chick from Southie.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

That was my exact experience last time I was there.

[–]16 MGaiusScaevolus4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy

It's funny you mention D.C, Roosh is from there and consistently calls it among the worst place in the U.S for men and game, if not the worst. But I also actually have consistently better luck in D.C than in my area.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (3 children) | Copy

Hmm...most of the guys I see as "competition" are like 5'8" and have no game at all. They are either so focused on getting shit-faced or are too scared to approach.

During my 2nd year of law school I did a summer internship on the hill for one of the Senate Committees. One of my bros from my fraternity flew down at the end of my trip to party for a few nights and then drive up.

We went to a bar called "The Front Page" or something and shortly after two solid 8's walked in in heels and tight black dresses. Immediately bought them shots from across the bar, they walked to us, did the shots with us (Jaeger or some nasty bullshit). They were supposed to go meet up with their friends but when we indicated we weren't interested in going to that college bar, they blew off their friends and followed us to a ridiculous Brazillian nightclub (no idea what the name is, they play house music, everyone is from a different country and people play fucking congo drums to the beat).

They came back to my place in NW, hammered out, and took the Red line home in the morning. No promises made whatsoever. In fact, my little chica ended up taking the Amtrak to come visit me one weekend a couple months later.

I love DC.

[–]j_arbuckle20123 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

DC girls love guys who aren't from DC. That's been my experience.

[–]smokeybehr2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

DC Local girls love guys who aren't from DC local. That's been my experience.

FTFY. I've gotten more poon while working on the road, and I wasn't even trying.

[–]ryeprotagonist2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

except when he came to Toronto... he couldn't get out of here quick enough and promptly pronounced it as the worst city to game in in existence.

welcome to Hell.

[–]MahlerNinth4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy

No, New England women in general generally are fucking awful. The term Connecticunt exists for a reason. Boston is full of preachy feminists, or spoiled college brats who think that they're well travelled and worldly because they spent four months on study abroad in Barcelona or Tuscany.

Most of the women from the countryside (RI, Vermont, etc) look as if they've been bred on corn since birth. Heifers.

[–]WALLOM4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Mainer here. Outside of the spoiled girls in the southern part of the state (Portland, Saco, OOB, etc.) they tend to get easier the further north you go, the only downside is they become harder to find the 7/8's most nights and the 5/6's can be quite entitled due to the constant validation from guys "fucking down." Bangor is a decent smaller city to spit game though.

[–]1BadgerBurger0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Connecticut was the toughest place I've ever tried to spit game. Such entitlement from the women.

[–]brmpbrmp0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

no man is a prophet in his own land

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

You want this scenario on steroids, come to Toronto. Girls with bitch-shields so strong they'll give you cancer. I've lived here all my life, I thought all chicks were this way. Then I traveled to various places in the U.S., and let me tell you what a massively pleasant surprise that was.

[–]ryeprotagonist1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

that 100%.

everywhere else seems like i'm playing on easymode.

[–]Endorsed Contributormonsieurhire20 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Which part of the US are you in?

[–]16 MGaiusScaevolus1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

For obvious reasons i'm vague about that. Eastern Seaboard, North of NYC.

[–]SgtSplacker7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

I remember a girl was like this with me. TONS of subtle, deniable IOIs. I said to myself "you got this one man" I started chatting her up on a very honest level. No "Race car driver" stuff. She lost interest like an over-inflated balloon without a knot. Never again...

[–]rogueman9994 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

Great insight on locality.

She doubled down. She demanded I should have made time and that I was unreasonable.

After two such arguments over the course of a few weeks, I walked.

Out of curiosity, why don't you just laugh and refuse to acknowledge the argument?

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I wouldn't want to be passive about her plays, that would signal the wrong thing, I think.

[–]blazin_6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

You said that bars in your area have 15:1 Male:Female ratio.

As seen in economics, supply is high therefore price is low and quantity is high.
In SMP terms, supply of male attention is high therefore the effort needed to get male attention is low and there are many men willing to give women the attention they desire.
These women just aren't buying what you're selling.

However when you don't play by the market's rules, women want to force you to conform to the market.
You've established that you're high quality (hopefully), therefore they demand your superior quality at the same low effort as the other dudes freely giving her attention.

Just maintain your frame and they'll either;
1. Find their attention somewhere else. Next her.
2. Increase their effort to meet your value. Spin that plate.

TL;DR Doubling down is a big shit test. Maintain frame and you'll see whether the girl is worth your attention or a next.

[–]TRP VanguardJP_Whoregan9 points10 points  (2 children) | Copy

And here I thought this would be a post about a bun-less chicken sandwich from KFC.

[–]The_Determinator1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

The Double-Bypass.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I laughed out loud.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Some places are horrible. The polarization between alpha and beta is so strong there that the shit tests are never ending and ugly from the start. Before I even heard about shit tests I could always identify them. I never had it in me to comply with them, but I neither had the knowledge about women needed to pass them. So I would become angry and next them, like you are doing. And I tell you, there's nothing wrong with this method. Just don't show any anger and try your best to not feel anger either.

My advice: Move away and don't waste your time with these women unless you want to be sucked dry of all your energy. For not much of a reward.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (8 children) | Copy

Edmontonian here. This is very, very, very true. And unfortunate. Canadian chicks have REALLY thick bitch shields.

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

Come to Toronto. I'm sure Edmonton chicks will seem downright sunny by comparison.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Funny thing, I was going to move to Toronto after I graduate. Might make it a thing now. :P

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

Our weather is comparable, our women colder, and shit costs twice as much. What's not to like here?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Screw it. U.K., here I come!

[–]DayCount0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Word to the wise - don't.

[–]NotAWasteOfMyTime0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I find here in Edm that if you have high enough smv they come running. Seeing it in my friends too. AWALT applies all the time.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Good SMV here, but I just swallowed TRP. I'm working on my game one day at a time. Right now, I'm still trying to break this spell over me called "women are goddesses and princesses" so I can finally view women and ... well ... women.

[–]ryeprotagonist0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

visited some cousins in Edm last year. went out 4 nights and hooked up twice (a 6 and a 7).

you'd have to be very lucky indeed to bat .500 in T.O.

[–]BellatorCordis2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's funny that you mention 'The Double Down'; I have really noticed a trend of this sort of behavior increasing withing the last few years.

It is a very passive-aggressive move that is indicative of someone having an extremely inflated sense of self-worth. I think a lot of the women who engage in this sort of behavior are so used to beta behaviors that they are sure that their demands will be met. Statistically speaking, they are probably correct in their assumptions. In short, I see this as a consequence of the overwhelming majority of men demonstrating an overwhelming majority of beta traits. The beta-trait-demonstrating men actually train these women to behave this way!

Regarding SMV vs location, this is of course true. Certainly in places with more men than women, the women are pickier and put less effort into being valuable themselves. Ironically, in places with more women then men (colleges for example) the trend does not hold as strongly. I attribute this to hypergamy, and women being less willing to lower their standards in general. The whole 'would rather share an alpha than have a beta to themselves' mentality. Still, there is probably some small degree to which men being outnumbered by women will increase the SMV of each man.

[–]telechronn1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Supply and demand pure and simply. We can get away with more and do so when we are in markets with surplus women, it's no surprise that women do the same. You can't go out in winter and then complain that it's cold.

[–]dixiedownunder1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You're right about location. I'm in South East Asia. Game is not required here, but I get used to it, then it really sucks when I'm in Western countries and have to make an effort.

[–]2johnnight1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

For women looking for beta- perhaps it's effective at weeding out men who won't go all the way. Perhaps it's short sighted, and these women don't yet realize the alpha they crave and the beta they're pushing for won't exist in the same person.

I explained this elsewhere. It's the incomplete biological programming at work. The firmware does NOT care if it makes a woman unhappy, as long as it achieves the survival goal. In fact, the whole procedure is designed to make women unhappy, when they succeed.

The instructions for a woman are:

  1. catch a wild attractive alpha beast
  2. tame him into beta
  3. be unhappy with your tamed beast

This is either by design, because it makes her go out and tame another beast or it is by evolutionary "mistake" of incompleteness. Evolution does not care for a woman's happiness in step 3, because success has been already achieved in step 2 and there is nothing else of evolutionary value to evolve past this point. So she does steps 1. and 2. and is puzzled what to do next.

Evolution makes us chase stuff, but it does not make us completely satisfied with it. There is no goal line.

So yes, women do not realize that they are craving the alpha in his wild state, they are pushing him into beta, which will make them unsatisfied with the result.

On a related note, it should be obvious why pre-packaged betas are unattractive. The love procedure operates at step 1, not at step 2. The love procedure can not be initiated, because there is nothing to tame. Some women, in their unconscious wisdom, provoke a greater beta into disobedience and abandonment, so that they as women can fall in love with him at step 1. and can re-tame him at step 2., so that it "feels right".

Stay untamed, gentlemen.

[–]jacobman1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Perhaps they're betting it all because they feel the market best favors them?

Want sex? You better play their game. You simply weren't special enough for them to worry too much about losing you. Maybe the market gave these women more access to attractive males. I don't know, but you definitely weren't attractive enough to them for them to worry too much.

[–]8HourPower0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Doubling-down for these woman is an irrational way of justifying their own imperative and feeling self-righteous about it. It is about local geography to the degree that betas, family, social circle, etc. have been supplicating attention and validation fueling the rationale-complex for the woman over time.

Since you certainly have other plates & the ability to replace plates that have fallen off with new ones - next is the right move

[–]3trplurker0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It's all based on what the women perceives she can get. It's not a rational judgement call but her inner mating animal thinking she can fuck hotter guys by just walking up to them.

The chances of her doing shit like that go down if she knows you have options. When she doubles down you gotta exercise one of those options, or at least have her think your exercising them. In that situation you cut contact and the next night show up to her bar with another hot girl on your arm, just drop in for a quick hello to your friends and a drink then take off. Her brain will do one of two things, decide that she made a mistake and she'll do anything you want, or she'll decide your likely to reject her and she'll go deep cold on you to protect her social value.

Doesn't change approaches really, just go in with confidence and swagger, if bitch shoots you down you continue talking to other girls. The first rejection is rarely the final one.

[–]HeadingRed0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Double down in LTR as well- quite often it's a turn the tables move. Like demanding an apology when you are owed one.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Call them on their shit. Doubling down does nothing but pushes a man away from them, and they'll be left with a boy that is trying to please their very whims. Where's the relationship or individuality I'm that?

[–]tangman0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

[–]phaseonx110 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You know you've swallowed the pill when you read "So I soft-nexted her. A few days later, no contact, she decided that I was being a real asshole for ignoring her for a few days, and demanded an apology for treating her this way." and burst out in laughter.


[–]FuriousMouse0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

So one evening we're out for a stroll after having dinner at a rather nice place (I like to indulge) when she gets a call. Her kid was with dad for the weekend (giving us the evening to do as we pleased). Her phone starts ringing and she got visibly tense.

First of all, with single mothers, you will always be number 2 at most. Her kid is number 1 and you will never be put at a higher priority.

Secondly, "the kid was with dad for the weekend".
Like it or not, they are still "family" even if they don't live together. They are raising a kid together and have to share the responsibilities of the upbringing.

Any man, that is not completely blue, is going to have a hard time with this woman.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

you are... complex. I am constantly amazed at how much you guys have figured out about women - things that I have personally noticed and tried to get my head around, never mind having a complete hypothesis / definition / theory and explanatory essays to share with your eagerly waiting community of like-minded, 'at-various-stages-of' RP men.

e.g.like this recent post: http://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/1xyhjf/everything_women_do_makes_sense_once_you/

where the concept of 'Quorum Sensing' is discussed:

Quorum sensing: Women are very good at picking up and evaluating the sentiment of a group and society. This is why women follow fads and can be manipulated easily through emotional appeal their behavior is dependent on the boundaries of society, or their perceived highest authority figure (media, parent, boyfriend, religion). This is beneficial to them because it allows them to accurately determine the traits of the best provider (as this changes based on societal circumstances). Shit tests are basically probing to continue to verify this status.

You can see simple, smaller-scale evidence of this just in everyday reddit posts and comments by women - a lot of usage of the trendiest phrases/slang such as: 'douche' (they don't know they are actually insulting themselves at the same time) 'Wow. Just wow.' (annoying as sht) 'This.' (easier than thinking of and typing your own thoughts)

Geezus. How do you guys find time to date? ha

I can't believe that dating has come to this level of strategy by both sexes.

I'm sorry that it has.

[–]okdatapad0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

She's not friendzoned you, OP. You've girlfriendzoned her. Now then, it's a fact universally accepted that most dudes would bone their female friends given the opportunity- however, seeing a female friend only as a girlfriend is girlfriendzoning. She's not rejected you, she's still your friend. She's just turned you down for a date. She's probably sitting at home thinking wtf, have I been girlfriendzoned here? Has this dude only been nice to be for the last 5 months so he could get into my pants? Was our whole friendship a lie? How am I going to get over this? It sucks to be in the girlfriendzone, the more it happens the less you trust men. Seriously, it's s. Secondly, she's turned you down because she doesn't fancy you. She said it was because you didn't smoke because she didn't want to hurt your feelings, it was probably the first thing that popped into he head. So, then, OP- what to do? You need to remove this girl from your girlfriendzone. Let that s go. Stay stoic. You can control how you feel, but you cannot control how she feels. Every time you catch yourself thinking about her, imagine her scratching her arse and sniffing her fingers, or picking her nose and eating the boogers- whatever it takes. For the love of God, do not start smoking to impress her. Romantic rejection sucks, bro, but it's not about you, it's about her- so there's nothing you can do. Now's the time for a little self improvement. Stop using the term 'friendzone', when women hear it we translate as "immature neckbeard with misplaced sense of entitlement" - it's not attractive. Dealing with any kind of rejection is a challenge, and challenges are what make us tough.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Wrong thread?

[–]trpalternate0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The situation you describe is a huge glut of men in the marketplace, which drops your value significantly. In addition, there's a shortage of women, which raises hers. You're basically a cock salesman trying to trade a commodity that is in oversupply (cock) for one that is in short supply and high demand (pussy).

The "double down" makes sense in this context. Those women can demand a huge amount of validation, and if you're not willing to give it, some thirsty guy is more than willing to supplicate to them instead. It doesn't matter if they get tired of him quickly, pussy has a huge amount of buying power and replacement men are cheap.

[–]OKJaded-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

Agree and amplify. Better shit tests make someone with strong frame stand in contrast to those who buckle under her bullshit.

I suggest she mute her phone or turn it off if she's not going to answer it. She asks me to take her back, (we were in one car, her car was at my house). So we get in the car where she eventually mutes her phone after my third request, and sits quietly on her side of the car, all tensed up.

Don't be afraid to take the loss. Call her on her bullshit. Dont ask 3 times. After the second one just drive home. Don't ice her out. Talk, listen to the radio. When you get home get out of the car. Kiss her on the cheek, thank her for the evening, say goodbye, and turn and walk into your house. Dont be a dick about it. Dont do it with a whiny undertone. It can go three ways.

A) She goes WTF!? Throws a tantrum and wants to come inside with you. If you want to hang out with her still calmly state something like 'the phone stays outside'. If you're tired of her for the evening just say something about something you have to do tomorrow.

B)She gets in her car and leaves. And throws a tantrum. I'd give it about an 80% chance the next day you get a text message 'sorry for the understanding last night'.

C)You never hear from her again.

Don't be afraid to take the loss.

"alright whatever, bye" and go inside- no kiss or anything. Slightly whiny and butt hurt.

She wanted beta, and I gave it to her. I even bought her flowers one day after we got in a small argument (that she caused, but I resolved with beta-tude).

You rewarded her shit test with flowers. Maybe my game is fucked but I would never do that shit now. Yes there are going to be fluctuations in the sexual market place. If you have a strong frame and solid game it won't matter. Point being, recognize these differences but never use them as an excuse.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, we're not on the same page here. I'm experimenting with beta game based on localization differences. Do you really think I didn't recognize the shit tests? You gotta read what I'm writing man.

[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points  (2 children) | Copy

Use more dread game on them, tell them about all the other girlfriends you have even if its a lie.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

The first two were open dread, they knew they were plates. The second was a beta-time experiment. I'm not sure if you read through, the problem was that they were doubling down.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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