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Welcome to AltTRP

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[deleted]
April 23, 2014
24 upvotes

Hello and welcome to the Alternative Red Pill subreddit - Just like TRP only gay. In short this is a sub dedicated to the discussion of Red Pill ideas with a focus on homosexual relationships. How is that possible? you might ask. It should be understood that while TRP proper has always been and will remain on the topic of hetrosexual relations, the theories developed therein have a much broader audience.

For anyone who finds themselves looking around the internet for discussion or advice pertaining to the realities of a homosexual lifestyle, one problem quickly becomes apparent. Practically all spaces for gay men are hopelessly feminized. Discussion over at /r/gay takes on the tone of “do what feels right for you, hon, and don’t worry what others think. be yourself and everything will work out”. It doesn’t take more than one application of advice like that to realize their naivete. One finds himself pinning for the rationality of TRP but with advice applicable to men seeking men.

Certainly some brave and foolhardy souls have attempted to seek that advice from TRP with predictably ill results. The Red Pill is simply not a place equipped nor interested in dealing with your gay shit. This is not due to any latent or institutional homophobia, rather because of the focused nature of the discussion taking place. Asking for TRP cooking advice would illicit a similar response from anyone who cared to reply. Its simply not germain to conversation. That does not mean the conversation is not germain to gay men. Reading the Red Pill has been the most informative process of my existence and practically all of the content there can be applied to my own life. Being a passive reader can only take one so far however, and this is why we’ve begun AltTRP.

My Hope for this sub is to build a more robust standard for masculinity. Being gay would at first seem to shake the foundation of one’s manhood. Images of flamboyant floofs prancing about or barely covered men in leather parading through the streets of San Francisco have done nothing to lend the gay man a casual place in society much less a chance at masculinity. Without a doubt the most prominent homosexuals will always be the most flamboyant, but that does not mean they are representative of most gay men. Straight-acting gay men make up a major portion of homosexual demographic, only you wouldn’t know it by the simple virtue that they are able to appear straight. I pass no judgment on my more flamboyant compatriots, far from it. That being said I suspect that most of the men who find themselves drawn to this community will identify as straight-acting.

The Rep Pill Proper was developed for men seeking women and there is good reason for that. The dynamic between men and women is the most stark example of the power differential that takes place within all interpersonal relations. Whenever two people interact there will be a difference in power between them and this will influence the behaviors they display. Men and women show this difference in power because of the cards their gender has handed them. Women are the gatekeepers of sex and men are the holders of resource and commitment.

Men seeking men are not immune to this dance of interpersonal power, in fact they serve to reinforce the reality that such a dynamic does exist . The sexual market deals in a currency of commitment and sex. Gay men still trade the same cards that men and women do even if the market they find themselves in is different. because of this Red Pill theory is highly applicable and sorely needed.

Begin your reading with The Masculine Gay Male and Submission | The Watson Role

Be sure to read Jack Donovan's Andropilia which lays out the full argument for the masculinity of homosexual men. It also details many of the issues with modern gay culture. You may also find Way of Men a worth while read as Jack goes into greater depth about the essence of masculinity.


Post Information
Title Welcome to AltTRP
Author
Upvotes 24
Comments 16
Date 23 April 2014 01:55 AM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit altTRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/163330
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/altTRP/comments/23qemf/welcome_to_alttrp/
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[–]mikelovesvegas3 points4 points  (6 children) | Copy

I suggest that you invite your subscribers to read some of the more masculine homosexual writers. Jack Donovan comes to mind.

"Straight-acting" seems like a cop-out of a description. Its like suggesting that flamboyance is an inherently homosexual trait. I don't think it necessarily is inherent, but more of a learned behavior for signalling purposes. "Straight-acting" is actually just keeping frame.

Thanks to /u/Brown_Piper for making a space where homosexuals can explore how unplugging can benefit them, without having to clutter up /r/TheRedPill with the closeted, concern-trolling guys giving each other high fives.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

Indeed Donovan is a hugely informative writer. Way of Men should be required reading.

A lot of people take issue with the term straight-acting for a number of different reasons. Some people perceive it to mean closeted or attempting to cover over natural flamboyant tendencies, which we know is not the case. I use it because it plainly describes what is going on - a gay man who is outwardly indistinguishable from a straight man. There will have to be a discussion later on about the topic of signaling and flamboyance and how the two go together. For now I find it sufficient to say that being unable to act straight is a negative reflection on one's masculinity.

[–]Crusene2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

This looks like an interesting and much needed sub-reddit. I've always found that while I'm personally very straight and unable to think of guys as attractive, on the other hand I've always found the mixing of sexuality and "queer issues" to be rather odd, and I'm curious enough to have a frank exchange of ideas.

I met some gays in the service (I got in the army after DaDT was repealed) and some of them struck me as "I'm just a soldier who happens to like guys instead of girls". Very professional and cool dudes too.

Then there was That Guy in my training platoon who was so flaming, and so annoying, that the rest of us just gave him extra shit. (of course he whined to everyone who would listen that we "hated him for being gay")

So where the heck does the flamboyance come from? I hope you don't mind me as a straight guy "invading" this space?

[–]redgreenyellowblu2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Some guys are just born girly. One day science is going to figure this out. You see it even in little four year olds sometimes. They have a dad, there's no girly-girl around them to manner themselves after but they just have these exaggerated girly way about them, from the moment the starting gun fires. You can look at any culture and spot the young gays with these mannerisms. I'm convinced there were flamboyant Neanderthals.

Why are some so loud about being flamboyant? That, I think, comes almost as a survival strategy. If someone's obviously gay and don't want to be crushed in school, he just has to say a big fuck you to everyone and be so unapologetically flamboyant that at least no one will think they'll hurt him by calling him gay. It's like armor. Then, like fat people, sometimes gays work hard to be funny in order to be liked. That's another source of the showiness. And the flamboyant ones often just love acting and mimicing women in an over-the-top way.

Super flamboyant gays tend to make straight guys in our culture uncomfortable in public because they don't have an approved way to relate to them. In Latin America and many parts of Asia they have an official--but second-tier--status so long as they appear as women and do womanly things. Then, it's fair for straight men to admire them and even have sex with them so long as they never take the female role themselves. They're still straight. Once, I went to Baja with a couple friends. We were walking through a weekend outdoor market and all of a sudden were getting cat-called by a big group of Mexican guys. One of our group was pretty flamboyant and I think that's what started it. I was freaked out because I thought it was some anti-gay hostility, but, no, they were really into it and not at all ashamed to flirt with us and grab their balls and shit.

Not all flamers are annoying in a drama-prone, whiny way, like your platoon mate. I'm not sure if it was the whininess or just the flamingness in a military setting that was annoying the rest of you guys. A lot of flamers are pretty strong and have a kick-ass attitude because they had to to make it through school.

[–]RustyGuns0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

This sub reddit looks interesting. As a 22 year old gay man I have never been able to really relate and immerse myself in their culture. The culture on its own to me feels very intense. You are constantly being checked out, ass grabbed, and looked at like a piece of meat. I also don't get why guys change themselves into effeminate males after coming out. I understand if you were born girly, but I do see many guys conform to this cookie cutter gay image. I personally was not out of the closet till recently and no one even suspected it, even now if I go to a party or circuit event people will comment saying "who's this straight boy." I have kept everything the same with who I am since I have come out.

Another thing that I don't get is gay men seem to be more attracted to guys who are straight acting yet all try to fit into this campy gay culture.

These are just some random thoughts I was hoping others could respond or relate to.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Look for my upcoming post today or tomorrow which will cover a lot of the stuff you just said. Until then...

You're in a good spot. Don't worry about gay culture. Gay culture will do you no favors, and fitting into it will likely make you less attractive. The "straight" guy at a gay club is a hot ticket item. They were testing you because they were into you.

[–]RustyGuns0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks! I thought this sub would almost be a troll due to the red but it seems pretty cool and interesting. And to reply to your post I moved to a big city for my partner (2.5 years and loving it) and he kept saying he was worried that I would change after I was exposed to the club/circuit life. But honestly it makes me happy for who I am and my values that I carry. I was bullied so badly throughout school and it really has humbled me and helped me keep true to myself. It sounds cheesy but yea..

And your right about the ticket thing, I was so shocked and confused at first when I went from being destroyed in school to being appreciated as a person and physically as well. Not going to lie though it does help with self esteem issues :)

[–]redgreenyellowblu2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

This is a great idea. I like hanging out at TRP but often wonder if I'm viewed suspiciously, like the straight guy that shows up to the yoga class with hot chicks. What interests me most about red pill thinking is the willingness to look at biological differences, especially since I've always known I'm different and never "chose" to be gay. That gays get to say this, but RPers are attacked for pointing out male/female differences, is really kind of fucked up.

I'll be interested to see where this goes and how people articulate red pill theory in a gay context. From my experiences with being friends with older gays, I think it used to be that gays once had more acceptance for sub/dom roles that weren't presented as fetish or play. In these relationships, it seemed like one was kind of the boss and the other gladly played his role as supporter. I was always a little put off when my boyfriend and I were around them because the bossy one would always do things like ask my boyfriend, "You let him sit on the couch without a shirt?"

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Oh yeah, thats one of my favorites. You didn't choose to be gay, and feminists will back you up left and right on that, but then when it comes to gender roles everything is cultural brainwashing.

Its by belief from what I've seen that the sub/dom dynamic is alive and well, and likely the mode for a good portion of gay relationships - even if they don't explicitly understand it. In its most defined form each player knows their place and acts to fit into it, in its more nebulous form the difference in power between the two men naturally organizes the roles (albeit subtly).

Thanks for joining and I encourage you to join the conversation here and share your experiences.

[–]celebril 3 points3 points [recovered] | Copy

Isn't this, essentially, a return to the "homophile" period of gay rights movement, before the "LGBT" umbrella, Stonewall, and the advent of "sexual liberation"?

It's a nice sentiment. Unfortunately it's also a vilified one on Reddit, given how the previous attempt at celebrating this view over at /r/gaybros has gradually devolved back into the "feels and identity politics" streak over the years.

It doesn't help that /r/altTRP is associated with /r/TheRedPill either, a sub that is rather notorious on Reddit. If this subreddit would like to be taken seriously, I suggest we focus on the practical instead of being occupied with complaining about the norm. Real life advocacy and reforming current LGBT groups back into the homophile ideal could be a useful starting point.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Similar in form to the Homophile movement, but different in almost every important respect. Most importantly, AltTRP is not a movement. We do not look to change the mind of any one but those who would benefit from such a change. Social movements have a nasty habit of demanding change from everyone except those within their ranks.

The homophile movements was built on the premise that most of the public resistance to homosexuality was a result of flamboyant gays. I can certainly see where their coming from, but admonishments to avoid flamboyancy are not an issue of public relations. I also do not believe that homophobia is entirely a social construct that can be washed away with the right PSA. Instead the discussion here is aimed at allowing people to be better at getting with the men they want. Flamboyancy is detrimental to the individual.

We're not concerned with public opinion, neither from our associations with the Red Pill, nor from condemnation of Reddit at large. The advice given here is for those who seek it and none others.

If this subreddit would like to be taken seriously, I suggest we focus on...

This is the very definition of concern trolling. I'd ask that you refrain from attempting to direct the tone of conversation in this manner again.

[–]redbluepilling1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

After a while, it would be good to see some top posts make their way over to TRP, xposted. There used to be more back in the day, but they've been drowned out. I like my women, but find it's a really interesting perspective that adds to the intellectual conversation. Not to mention there are more racists and homophobes that have subscribed with the increased number mindlessly following TRP instead of taking some time for rational thought. They should be confronted with tolerance and question their jaded biases in the same way they had to with the BP fantasy.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

tolerance

This is specifically the sort of thing we don't need. Feminists preach tolerance and equality because they feel the need for acceptance in a mans world. We're men, we don't want to be tolerated.

I'm sure we'll have our x-posts soon enough, but for the time being we just have to prove this is a viable sub.

[–]redbluepilling1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Except, at a minimum you do want to be tolerated, as opposed to chemically castrated or murdered in a hate crime. The problem with feminism is the extremes that it has since gone to, the 'third wave', after largely achieving what was wanted. When I say tolerance, I mean it as the next stage of understanding for other guys who were raised to hate homosexuals or people of other races. I don't expect a grand paradigm shift, but at the very least abandonment of hate and the treatment of other people with indifference. I'd hope that in the same spirit of questioning what they were taught about the role of men, women, and relationships that they'd also question their other biases. Having people subscribe to TRP, they should be open to new ideas and work to drop bitterness and hate. It's a pretty minimal expectation. Seeing xposts from here could be nicely jarring to a guy otherwise spouting anti-homosexual bullshit. It shows that you guys are guys, and also subscribe to TPR. They're going to have to either hamster that away or confront it. And, it keeps things on point and on topic if they're not going into a diatribe about how niggerfaggots are destroying 'murica.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The problem with feminism is the extremes that it has since gone to, the 'third wave', after largely achieving what was wanted.

Which is exactly what the gay rights movement is doing right now. The big issues have been tackled and now its turned into a forced equality brigade. With that in consideration I can see why so many people over at TRP are about as eager to accept us as they would be feminists. Until we fully excise that perception there will continue to be friction.

[–]narcissus881 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for this subreddit. I tried to post about this on gaybros, and was attacked to hell for it, then tried the same on TRP, with decent responses (they were not unwelcoming). I'm a bi guy...I'm going to post here later.



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