Submission | The Watson Role

Reddit View
May 10, 2014

Primarily the intention behind starting this sub was to develop a place mirroring the Red Pill with an aim at men seeking men. Admittedly the core of the message here is going to be along the lines of stop acting gay and start having sex with men. That is to say, I believe much of what stands in the way of fulfilling homosexual sex and relationships is a complete misunderstanding of what it is to be gay. I believe that gay culture is not conducive to the happiness of gay men. I believe that the same issues plaguing hetrosexual men and women right now have taken their toll on us as well.

As dull as it seems I cannot begin a conversation on what gay men without first discussing what is happening to straight men. Over the past half a century the image of the masculine male has been so derided it is no longer a desirable position to hold. We’ve been told that men are the oppressors of women. Men men are violent feral beasts. Men cause war. Men beat and rape women. To be a man is a terrible thing and the best we can do is to get in touch with our “feminine side” in hopes of curbing our terrible nature. If we do that, if we become feminized, women will like us more. A nice guy is preferable to a bad guy. Flowers are preferable to rough sex.

If you’ve read and thoroughly comprehended the content in the Red Pill (If you have not I suggest you do so before setting foot into this sub) I should not need to explain why that all that is wrong. But because these things have been repeated so often and so loudly, the role of men has become stunted. The traditional road map for life we had been given as boys - career > love > marriage > family - no longer represents the landscape and we’re getting lost along the way. The age of adulthood is sliding back further and further. We’re the generation of lost boys, more content to subsist and enjoy ourselves than to break our backs for the fading dream of a family life. They call it the Peter-Pan complex.

In this world of Peter-Pans or man-children or betas or however you’d like to refer to them, women are finding their attractions drawn to the few Men left. We describe these men as alpha.They’re not always the best people, they’re not defined by their commitment to civic duty or a strict moral code. They are simply whatever works to attract women. They are however men in the truest sense of the word. They embody raw masculinity because women go nuts over it..

Gay men have been stuck in Peter pan’s neverland for much longer. There has never been a road map for the gay boy to follow and so he has invariably always gone his own way. Shunned from the institutions of masculinity he decided that he was not a man but instead something entirely different - a Gay Man. He found sisterhood with Feminism and believed the terrible things he had been told about masculinity. He saw real men as jocks and brutes. There was no reason for him to ever desire to become what he saw.

That did not stop him from desiring to have it. The brutish straight man is secretly the idol of gay men’s affections. Its the untouchable, unachievable, but undeniably sexy visage of what we really want. We want Men. Our attraction to men is not an attraction to women with dicks. Its and attraction to men, and the few straight men left standing in the wake of feminism are the torch holders of that ideal.

In many ways gay men became what they thought the object of their unrequited affection would want them to be. They posed themselves as a sort of woman so that they might be attractive to the sort of man they wanted. They played into the heteronormative Male/Female polarity in hopes to find more masculine partners. Sadly masculine gay men were not interested in women, and passed over the effeminate queens in favor of other masculine gay men.

This is the state of gay men today, hopelessly lost emulating women in a bid to find men. Of course if that were the full story there would be no need to an AltTRP. I could tell you all to go back to the red pill, learn all you needed to about game there and apply it 1 for 1 to men. Obviously there is a bit more to it than that. To begin with, the objects of our desire are psychologically different from women. Shit tests and validation seeking behaviors will be different with men (not gone, just different). More importantly though, straight masculine males are a one act show. The advice at Red Pill Proper is entirely geared towards being a dominant alpha male. Just put two alpha males in a room and watch the sparks fly as they try to AMOG each other and you’ll see the issue.

Whenever two people have an interpersonal exchange there is a power dynamic between them. With men and women that dynamic is dictated by their natural tendencies to fall into a dominance/submission roles. When a man and a woman do not fall into this dynamic, such as when the woman controls the relationship, its a sure sign of trouble. Gay men don’t have the biological need to form that dynamic, but masculine men do have the psychological need to do so. Look at any male institution and you’ll find hierarchy coming out the ears. In the military you have rank and file. In football you have coaching duties subdivided every which-way. Masculine men demand social hierarchy and alpha males demand to be on top. Beta game is a must for anyone seeking an alpha.

Its not a strange state of affairs for one man to be under another man. Every one of us does it at work, in the military, in a club, or in a team. Its the natural state of men to rule and be ruled over. Its only now with our conception of the super-Alpha, this distillation of alpha traits and complete denial of any beta traits, that it becomes an awkward proposition. The straight alpha male refuses to place himself under any other man. In contrast to him its easy to see why we would assume any man willing to place himself under another is less than a man.

Gay men do fall into a dynamic, but it is not the male/female, Mars/Venus dynamic. It is the Mentor/student, the Achilles/Patroclus, the Robin Hood/Little John, the Holmes/Watson dynamic. its only when we narrow the role of the male so strictly to being dominant that we view submission as being feminine. None of these examples are feminine men. Many of them were much more masculine than most of us could ever hope to be. Their only offense was associating themselves with even greater men. They were caught in the shadows of giants. As men who love men, thats a small price to pay for closeness to something truly great.

Knowing of this dynamic allows you to exploit it. Being aware of where you stand with another man gives you the ability to play to your strengths and boost attraction in the right direction. The one trick show of Red Pill Proper will only teach you how to navigate half of that dynamic. Hopefully AltTRP will prove to be more comprehensive.

Post Information
Title Submission | The Watson Role
Upvotes 3
Comments 2
Date 10 May 2014 08:25 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit altTRP
Original Link
Similar Posts

Red Pill terms found in post:
mirroringMAPAMOGalphabetadominancegamethe red pillfeminism

[–]RedPilkington 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I like this for the most part except one small nit pick.

beta game is a must for anyone looking to attract an alpha

I know what your trying to get at but beta refers to make provisional behavior. Yes beta men tend to be more submissive, but that's not what were talking about when we use the term beta. Men supplicate women with resources. Are you suggesting that sub gay men employ this strategy?

[–]OsoFeo 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I like the model proposed here (recognizing that all models are wrong, some are useful).

I'm fine with the role of lieutenant. Better to be second-in-command for a winning team than leader of a terminally losing team.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

© TheRedArchive 2021. All rights reserved.

created by /u/dream-hunter