Red pill bitterness – A guest post from Tom Torero

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August 13, 2013

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Title Red pill bitterness – A guest post from Tom Torero
Author redpillschool
Upvotes 7
Comments 17
Date 13 August 2013 09:44 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
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[–]TRP VanguardWhisper16 points17 points  (2 children) | Copy

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.

It looks like some manosphere writers are disappearing up their own asses. They became addicted to the rush, not just of getting laid, but of everyone thinking they were awesome because they got laid so much.

But when more people entered the manosphere, some broader issues entered the discussion... how divorce screws the average man, how our culture has lost respect for men, how taking at face value what women say about their desires is a terrible idea, etc.

They don't like this. They don't want to become part of a movement for social change, because in that movement, they would no longer be superstars.

And they don't want to make western society healthy, because they thrive, professionally and sexually, in a sick society. Their worst nightmare isn't a feminist society. It's a non-feminist society where the average man grows up with self-worth, confidence, and some game.

The reason that he is resorting to argumentum ad AMOG and the whole list of feminist shaming tactics is that he doesn't want the manosphere to expand beyond being anything but a "hot chick banging contest", so that he can win, because that's what he's presumably good at.

But "I want to bang hot chicks" is only one of many problems that men have. Will game help me if I am falsely accused of rape? Will game prevent the white knights in government from taxing away my money and giving it to single mothers? Will game give me reproductive rights like legal paternal surrender? Will game abolish selective service? Will game restore society's respect for men?

No, no, no, no, and no.


All Roosh has to offer me is game. He wants the manosphere to stay a small pond, so he can continue to be a big fish in it. He isn't playing for Team Men. He's playing for Team Roosh. So should you trust him? Only if you are a member of Team Roosh, because otherwise, he hasn't got your back.

He is a vulture raising his voice in favor of more desert, and teaching people to eat carrion. (An apt description of the level of selfish narcissism that our culture inspires in 8s, 9s, and 10s. Nevermind that anti-male societies like ours reduce the overall number of 8s, 9s, and 10s.)

Such men would burn the world if doing so meant they could be king of the ashes that remained.

Yeah, sure, MRAs sound whiny. But they're trying to fix the problem, instead of just having a big "end of civilization" party. If I had to pick who to keep between Roosh and GirlWritesWhat, it would be a no-brainer. Because I know who's got my back, and who wants to sell me a book.

[–]Deansdale3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Amen, brother.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

On the other hand, Roosh has been instrumental to the original growth of /r/theredpill. He's been actually very helpful with ideas, links, shoutouts, and tweets. He does a lot to engender a good community.

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[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Accumulating knowledge is a fancy way of procrastinating.

I can put my hand up to this. I've held myself back. Lots of guys I know have done it, truly brilliant, witty, intelligent young men whom on the surface superficially may not seem like much, but spend time with them and you find there's all this untapped potential, too many doubts, laziness and sometimes depression, not enough optimism. They're being wasted. I've wasted myself and my time too, direction is important, marry that with discipline.

The amazing thing about having a drink is you really don't care most of time, you get a bit tipsy and then do w/e the fuck you want without a thought. Sober, a lot of people think the fuck out of things and then end up confused. "overthinking it" I don't think you can think too deeply per say, the deeper you think the wiser you'll become, however its like using a defibrillator on a guy who's sleeping, not dying, it's ruthlessly miscalculated and can even end up doing harm rather than good, a nudge/shout would have brought our proverbial man back to consciousness, the defibs on an already beating heart could have seriously hurt him.

If you're a natural overthinker like I am, do what the italians do, have some cheeky wine/beer or meditate/go zen and clear your mind - declutter and get shit done or be forever a prisoner of inaction. Go forth fellow procrastinators!

[–]Deansdale3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

What I don't understand is why so many guys believe that the Red Pill = getting laid. The actual RP is so much more than that, 'game' stuff is maybe 20% of it. And call me a loser, a fag, or whatever you might want to but this "pussy above everything else" mentality is so childish it hurts. I believed that, too, when I was 18, but I opened my eyes a bit later and realised there's more to life than running after new holes 24/7. I read the guest post and all I could see there was if you don't fuck at least 3 new girls each week then you're a worthless piece of shit. Pardon me but I have other interests too besides fresh pussy.

I simply can't understand why so many guys can't find their places in the ever-widenening manosphere. Some want to chase tail, others want a quality LTR, others want to fight feminism. Why the fuck do these groups have to fight each other proclaiming that what they are doing is what should be done and all the others are idiots? Am I a miracle, or a reincarnation of Jesus or something just because I can reconcile being an MRA, an MGTOW and using game (I'm not a PUA because I focus on my LTR) in one person??? I thought it's easy to see the truth in all these "movements" and combine them to a healthy lifestyle but it seems I was mistaken. Most men like attacking others only to project how superior they are to them. Fuckin' ridiculous.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

Here's a flow chart:

Is your intention to get laid?

  • Yes? Take this article's advice.

  • No? Don't take the article's advice.

It really is that simple. None of this "oh man but but but I thought everybody was made of peaches and dreams, but now I think the manosphere killed my dog!"

Stop complaining that an advice blogger is giving advice. Ignore it if you have different goals. I feel like this is elementary stuff.

[–]Deansdale2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I don't have any problems with giving out advice. I did my share of that too. What I have a problem with is trying to shame other men for not acting like you think they should. But Whisper said it better than I did, so, basically: what he said.

[–]Nutz763 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

It's good advice that experience is the best teacher and a lot of guys use keyboard jockeying as a crutch not to approach, which like he said boils down to approach anxiety. That said, there's a lot of value to be found online for the times when guys hit that really tough sticking point, not to mention for the men's rights issues and shaking guys free from the Feminine Imperative way of thinking so many are beholden to.

[–]Ronfar0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy


Krauser and Roosh are pretty much pointing out that there's too many guys spending all their time reading and commenting on Manosphere blogs without getting out their into the real world and testing those theories. I know they sound like arseholes, but in a sense it's tough love.

Reading through all the popular Manosphere blogs and even commenting on them regularly must be time consuming. I find it hard to believe that most guys who do that are successful either romantically or financially. I've cut down my Manosphere reading a lot this year because it can be a distraction. Also I've found too much Manosphere or MRA reading can be bad for you. It's not good to constantly dwell on that shit.

However, one point I disagree though with Roosh and Krauser is their view that man is only valued via his notch count. I would only value notch counts in a guy when it comes to seduction advice.

[–]Nutz761 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I would only value notch counts in a guy when it comes to seduction advice.

I wouldn't. The best players and naturals I've seen who've had the highest notch counts didn't have what most would consider good game. They were just good at screening for women who were into them, and often times they're not pulling the hottest women. Don't get me wrong, that's a great skill to have and will knock down your flake rates and wasted time, but that doesn't make them experts irt seduction. It's just being good at not putting your foot in your mouth.

Instead I'd value the guys who can go out and run solid game start to finish turning disinterested women into hookups or girlfriends. That demonstrates cradle to grave proficiency.

Krauser and Roosh are pretty much pointing out that there's too many guys spending all their time reading and commenting on Manosphere blogs without getting out their into the real world and testing those theories.

That's been my #1 advice for a few years now. Guys shouldn't read or watch videos, but instead go out and see what their real-world problems are first. Then and only then go online and troubleshoot their problems. Almost nobody does this though because they're scared and are afraid of rejection, women, and so on.

[–]pro_skub0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

What does understanding the nature of woman, modern feminism, etc have to do with the particular aspect of the interaction where you have sex with them?

I agree its kind of important to have some sexual, romantic experience. I agree that part of the manosphere may be whiny men who simply can´t get laid. But is he actually saying that in order to talk about men rights, feminism etc, you have to get laid with lots of women.

Am I thick and missing the point? Is he missing the point?

By the way, this kind of talk looks interestingly similar to the veiled shaming language that women so flippantly use towards undesirable men.

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[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

/r/mensrights is like that. I absolutely hate political correctness, and they often advocate their own version of PC rather than the abolishment of it. TRP is all about harsh truths, which is why this is easily my favorite subreddit. Even more than /r/atheism circa 2006-2007 (when it was still pretty good)

[–]Endorsed ContributorRedBigMan0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

What does understanding the nature of woman, modern feminism, etc have to do with the particular aspect of the interaction where you have sex with them?

I can tell you it means I don't want to pick up no crazy feminist bitches (most feminists are post-wall man-hating dykes anyway)

[–]RedSunBlue0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

What does understanding the nature of woman, modern feminism, etc have to do with the particular aspect of the interaction where you have sex with them?

Sex is a very, very big part of all inter-gender interaction. Saying you understand it while at the same time being unable to get it is akin to being a martial arts "master" who has never tested his art against a fully resisting opponent.

Here's a comment I made elsewhere in a post about Roosh's original post:

Men come to the manosphere in large part to learn how to deal with the opposite sex because, like it or not, interacting with women is integral the happiness of the majority of men out there. Thus, if a certain manosphere personality has no game, to me, he has no utility because he will not understand the intricacies of modern sexual dynamics.

Don’t read the writings of men who don’t get laid. If a man can’t solve the challenge of getting his dick wet, he’s a poseur and internet warrior. He’s a bloviator, a troll. Don’t read the writings of men who don’t know how to walk up to a woman and start a conversation. Don’t read the writings of men who lavish attention on female commenters, because if he was getting laid in real life, he wouldn’t even notice them. Game is an obligatory pursuit for the Western man in 2013, and if he is not pursuing it, he’s not someone worth listening to. He’s weak and scared. He needs to talk to women instead of spending hours a day nurturing his beloved manosphere personality. His world view, contaminated by a lack of female intimacy, will lead you down the wrong path. These fools have tainted a community of men that exclusively stood for getting laid and spreading truth, but now rushes to pardon obvious fakes like Minter.

I agree with that statement, although I would've phrased it a little more diplomatically. If the manosphere (on a personal note, I don't like the ring of that word) is flooded with the writings of beta male geeks with no game, who talk a tough game about no-marriage but buckle when a groupie shows them some love, what hope of legitimacy can it hope to have? Anyone associated with the manosphere/red pill will just be seen as "bitter men who just needed the love of a good woman" or some silly shit like that.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Game is pretty important to me, and I spend a fair amount of time trying to improve it and TRP helps with that. I find it helpful with improving motivation.

However, I am also very troubled about the lack of biological understanding our society has. I think this lack of understanding, or rejection, causes a lot of problems. For example, affirmative action simply wont work because biology plays the largest role in group differences. Outside of a few select fields, very few people understand that far from being Tabula Rasa, human nature is extremely deterministic and algorithmic. If it weren't, the techniques advocated by the PUAs wouldn't work so consistently. Swallowing the red pill for me has a lot to do with accepting the deterministic nature of the human condition. Maybe more than game.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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