Wife Going Out To Socialize With Men

InChargeMan · 2018-12-13T07:42:25+00:00

Don't worry, Daddy's here to sort this all out.

I appreciate that you are spending good time thinking about things more than rote parroting of battle cries. Part of why you see "divisions" is that everyone is at a different stage in their journey and additionally each man's journey has a destination that is unique to him. I will say though, when you are learning to crawl the movements that make sense at that point are drastically different from what makes sense when you walk, and different from running. As you develop higher levels of understanding and meet your goals you will see that your "right answer" from the past was right for you at that time, but with a deeper understanding you can see the bigger picture.

On to your post:

It isn't a black and white issue.

I was staunchly in the draw a hard line and don't back down camp. I see it as a sign of disrespect

The most important word in that sentence is "I". The rest literally doesn't matter. Once you are fully woke you will see that a man is his only critic. The things that you find disrespectful are different from any other person, and what they think has no bearing on you. You control only one person on this planet, which includes what rules those around you must follow to be allowed in your presence. As such, in this example, if you feel that a married woman should not be seen out drinking with other men, and this is a boundary (not a preference, an important distinction), then you make that boundary known.

The biggest issue isn't deciding what behaviors you desire for the people around you, that is the easy part. The hard part is differentiating between boundaries and preferences, or said another way, needs and wants. You inadvertently stumbled across the difficulty that men have with boundaries. Don't state a preference as a boundary, it is as simple as that.

Either she calls my bluff and we now have a semi-open relationship, she stops seeing the dudes, feels guilty and has loyalty to her husband, or she still sees them but behind my back.

You said it right there, "my bluff". This is how men fail in a hurry, and why the "No mateguarding" battle-cry is a decent quick catchall answer. Why? Here is what goes down when Beta Bob "mateguards": He tells her he doesn't want her going out to the bar with men (because he is afraid she will leave him). She tells him all the reasons its fine and proceeds to argue with him, call him controlling and needy, etc. He gets mad, throws a hissy fit, calls her a cunt, ends up on the couch stewing. She goes out as planned, now with a fire under her butt to find a man who isn't such a pussy. Effectively Beta Bob has used his fears and insecurity to bring his fears to life.

The issue at hand is that a boundary is only real if it is held firm by a man with conviction. A leader always makes his intentions clear and NEVER bluffs. Period. When you are doing this right you will never have arguments with your wife. You might have a discussion about a topic you disagree, but not an argument. Arguments are two people working to determine who is the alpha in that dynamic.

If I tell my wife that something is a boundary she now has the choice to observe or disregard that boundary. If the latter my reaction is already set in stone. This is the crux of Outcome Independence and Overt vs Covert contracts. If I decide that a woman who has the privilege of being called my wife has certain requirements for her behavior, then that is that. Any woman who hopes to hold that position knows what is required. She can get off the bus at any time.

I play aloof and crack a few jokes but make an effort to add some feelz back in the relationship

Here we are again, you're accidentally solving the puzzle for us. "Play" is a perfect choice of words here. Your option 2 describes most men, especially those starting off. Guys are still in her frame, thinking about what she is thinking about, trying to win at this epic chess match they see as a relationship. The only way to win is not play the game in the first place. Most of the "no mateguarding" responses continue on to define the way her feelz are going to be as a response to "acting aloof" etc. The fear and insecurity is still there, but now they are using MRP tools to "fake it till you make it." Nothing wrong with that, we all start somewhere, but realize that when I say "MY wife doesn't go out drinking with other men" it has zero to do with mate guarding, and everything to do with the fact that I get to define the behaviors of others that reflect on me or affect me.

Neo: What are you trying to tell me? That I can dodge bullets?

Morpheus: No, Neo. I’m trying to tell you that when you’re ready, you won’t have to.

Dodge bullets: Modify your behavior to give your wife the impression that you are not worried about her leaving you, which makes her feel that you must have value and options.

When you are ready: Don't modify your behavior one bit, you ARE high value and you DO have options. ALL of your needs are met, period.

sometimes it's just two different but equally effective strategies

"Dodge bullets" is a strategy with some non certain level of "effectiveness". "You won't have to" is not a strategy, it is a way of life. It is 100% effective, period. My marriage is awesome, and what is probably most surprising to many is that once you are there the stress, conflict and maneuvering just melts away.

The first step is differentiating between your wants and needs. Then it is ensuring that your needs are met. Improving yourself is where the hard work comes in, which gets you more of your wants. For a guy starting out, his needs list might be incredibly small, that is fine. With time he will likely start to move more things into that column.

I know this was long, feel free to ask questions for clarification. Also, I suggest you look at my post Mirror Image of Alpha/Beta Behavior to get more understanding of how the end game of MRP isn't where you have to mastermind every interaction, it is quite the opposite.

threekindsoflucky · 2018-12-13T03:37:26+00:00

You're right in that it's not a black and white scenario, however, it may be so for some men.

Context, in my mind, has a large role to play in this particular scenario. And by context, I mean relationship background. For instance, in my relationship, I often spend time with ex-coworkers, both male and female (sometimes both together, sometimes separate). It's generally drinks and laughs, and is generally not from a 'keeping in touch for future work' scenario, although it certainly doesn't hurt.

As such, if my wife was invited to work drinks with her ex-colleagues (all men or otherwise), it would be pretty ridiculous of me to say 'no that's not wifely behaviour'. I would generally be comfortable with her doing so. I also know its highly unlikely she's doing it for the feelz that she isn't getting from me. And that's context.

I know other men here have a rule along the lines of 'none of that shit thanks'. And their circumstances, the way they live their lives, how their relationship is structured will make that congruent.

That is why any advice needs to be considered within your own context, whilst still maintaining the bigger picture of 'is this how I would want my relationship to be if I wasn't a giant bitch'. Congruence is everything.

grumpieroldman · 2018-12-13T05:52:35+00:00

You have no leverage in scenario 1. That's why 2 is the TRP position.
But TRP is a bunch of pussy-whipped, feminist, hypergamy-loving gumps.
(e.g. Normalization of casual sex was a goal of feminism.)

IDGAF does not mean you don't give a fuck about "X".
It specifically means you do what is right or necssary regardless of the consequences. What you DNGAF about is the consequences of being "a man".
e.g. You don't say what you really think or feel because you're scared of the consequences.

Now apply that here but do not forget the nature of women.
You cannot go to her and "beg her to stop".
If she's decided to to go out on date then you go out on a date.
Oh no but that might end the marriage?! IDGAF.
If you can't land a date ... I guess we found our problem.

The reason why 1 doesn't work is because she has already unilaterally decided to crack it open.
If you then come in and starting talking about it like it's your idea you will look like a moron in her eyes.

The only thing "being aloof" does is give her tacit approval to cuckold you but that's the standard term of affairs for a TRP gump. Every slut they're fucking is fucking +10 other dudes. What the TRP crowd is really doing here is behaving like they approval of her slut lifestyle which a critically element to pulling sluts. That makes the slut feel comfortable enough with them that they come back for a retap later. Sluts won't hang around you or fuck you if you judge the shit out of them (as you ought to).

innominating · 2018-12-13T12:11:30+00:00

Be the guy that she knows can go out drinking with women with higher SMV than her. Don’t tell her, show her through your behavior and let her see other women react to you, once you are that guy you won’t have these problems.

r2401 · 2018-12-14T06:41:52+00:00

You are all hilariously off the mark. Fuck how your actions will be interpreted, by the woman, by other men or society. Fuck whether you are justified in forbidding your wife to have a drink, what the context of those drinks are etc.

It's like this, some people leave the tv on when they sleep and some don't. Some like to leave some asmr playing, I dunno, whatever. If you want the tv on, great, you are a man, turn it on. If you want it off, also great, you are a man and that is your prerogative.

If you instruct the tv to turn off or on and it does the opposite of what you want, then you have a DEFECTIVE tv, and you simply buy a new one. TV's are replaceable and when you buy a new one there's probably some cool new technology the old one didn't have (I just got a new 4k, hdr, really sweet). There is no discussion of how the tv interprets your "tactics" or which will produce the desired result most efficiently. Holy shit any such discussion is beneath you, as a man.

The desired result is whatever you desire! If the tv doesn't comply it is DEFECTIVE. If you are afraid the tv will take all your assets if you toss it then you have bad lawyers and/or were given bad advice before buying it. Once you view a wife as no different than the tv you want to leave on or turn off, or maybe have on a sleep timer or what have you, then you have truly ascended.

rAFCdadHUSBAND · 2018-12-13T05:23:40+00:00

I didn't see the original post, however let me say this: both sides are not only reasonable, there is a meta level here we should consider.

How far along the AWALT line are you? The bitter, divorce raped and cheated on guy will fall into the "no never" camp more likely than a guy who is 2 years into a happy marriage and hasn't been hurt. Yet.

The 'Recently quit pro football to go into international banking" guy will probably be relaxed about trusting his wife, too.

So it is with considering the logic in each argument, but also consider who is making the argument. There is no objective human.

SuperCrazy07 · 2018-12-13T22:57:32+00:00

From the OP you linked it sounds like the guys wife was meeting ex coworkers for a happy hour (makes me think it was earlier in the evening) and it was an unusual thing for them that happened once over a period of months.

Sheesh, there has been a lot of analysis for a pretty normal thing.

My wife did this last week (well it was 2pm drinks and she had 2 beers and stayed for an hour and a half). She hadn't seen these guys since April. Could she have been sucking dick that whole time? I guess. Was her reason for going that I'm not manly enough or providing tingles? I suppose. But, is that the LIKELY reason? No.

Turns out she saw some old coworkers and when she told them about the new consulting company she started, they gave her some work this week.

Not everything needs to be seen through a "is she unhappy and going to cheat lens"? You'll drive yourself crazy and push her into cheating.

Note: If she was doing this regularly, was gone late at night, and for long hours that would be different. But, that isn't what the OP was asking about.

whitecapwater · 2018-12-14T04:57:38+00:00

YOU ARE JUST A PUSSY!

MrChad_Thundercock · 2018-12-13T13:41:00+00:00

“we're all on the same team working”

Give less fucks.

The system is designed like that on purpose- to pit each other against one another, to divide and conquer, keeps us from becoming too powerful. Will always have discourse. It feeds off the negative energy. Half of the population are NPCs anyway following a script.

Worrying about yourself.

Synthetic_Citizen · 2018-12-13T23:04:01+00:00

The one requirement for success in this kind of situation is probably the hardest to come to terms with, you absolutely have to be willing to walk from the relationship without looking back. Women have a notorious dogs sense for finding weakness in a mans frame, this includes boundaries set, if you dont truly mean it she wouls only need a quick prodding to expose your bluff and lose even more respect for you.

Romance is reliant on a high level of respect, there can be no romance if there is no respect. There are cases where she has already lost too much respect and will look forward to the day you walk, and even cross your bou daries to further taunt you. Either way, in order to achieve a positive outcome it is required that you accept that the relationship is already over. This gives you the core basis of outcome independance required to achieve the gains you want. Because you cannot negotiate romance where there is lack of respect. Less her respect for you and more your respect for yourself above her. Self respect, assurance.

arkyleslyfox · 2018-12-13T07:00:33+00:00

Scenario 2 means you're rewarding her bad behavior

NoFaithInThisSub · 2018-12-13T03:29:27+00:00

Scenario One: I tell my wife if she continues disrespecting me with these guys then it will jeopardize my monogamy which is already hanging on by a thread. Tell her if she wants to open the pandoras box of drinking with the opposite sex, then let's do it but don't get hurt feelings. Result: Either she calls my bluff and we now have a semi-open relationship, she stops seeing the dudes, feels guilty and has loyalty to her husband, or she still sees them but behind my back.

Ok, so say she buckles, goes back on her choice, but has opened this semi-open relationship, would you then redraw your steps and say "sure lets go back to pre pandoras box" or do you go "too late baby, im hanging out with other broads"?

eddielovett · 2018-12-13T05:49:47+00:00

How can any self respecting man continue a marriage where his wife behaves like this? Going out drinking with other men is so far beyond any reasonable boundary... this is a complete disaster for the husband.

He needs to work on himself until his wife respects him enough to be loyal or until he finds another woman, or several, who are respectful towards him. That kind of behavior is completely unacceptable and.a huge red flag if he expects monogamy.

Taipanshimshon · 2018-12-14T00:06:08+00:00

Strip it down.

What will you tolerate.

What will she know she can get away with?

Further -

What will she want and not want to do of her own accord.

And are you the man who induces this behavior

red-sfpplus · 2018-12-13T14:07:58+00:00

I was at the gym last night when this post was made. After that I went to my GFs house. She had dinner waiting for me. After we ate, we took a shower together. She loves to wash my beard. After that we fucked, then went to bed.

Didn’t see this post. Wasn’t thinking about first OP and his faggotry, and sure as hell was not so deep in that frame that I felt the need to go and make a whole new OP on the same fucking topic.

Yall need to man the fuck up. Get out of research mode and into execution.

EnceladusPrime · 2018-12-13T19:49:39+00:00

Amazed that's the only two scenarios you could come up with

Nabonook · 2018-12-25T19:58:45+00:00

Dude I fucked your wife you should shut the fuck up

Redpillbrigade17 · 2018-12-13T03:49:27+00:00

I think since by its nature MRP is RP on hard mode, some folks here genuinely have a hard time dealing with “what if” scenarios where the wife / LTR gets close to flirting or actually flirts with “infidelity “.

A high value RP man in my book would be totally ok with “his woman” fucking some other dude. Who cares. Shrug it off. Demonstrate your high value and she won’t need to get tingles etc with others. Of course if she does things change.

Think about those scenarios where guys get cheated on and we tell them to move on, improve, she’s hypergamous anyway, focus on themselves, OI etc.

Lifelong monogamy is a weird, modern societal construct. Enforced by the state, church and religious doctrine and of course societal programming. Expecting it from a woman is a man’s problem. Committing exclusivity to one woman - for life: an even bigger one.

Title	Wife Going Out To Socialize With Men
Author	coachdad8
Upvotes	74
Comments	76
Date	December 13, 2018 3:20 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MarriedRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/a5pkh6/wife_going_out_to_socialize_with_men/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MarriedRedPill/wife-going-out-to-socialize-with-men.197533 https://theredarchive.com/post/197533