An open dialogue on leading vs. directing

bogeyd6 · 2016-02-25T17:30:17+00:00

last night, I was going to be late for soup supper at church. Normally it would've been a "well, I'll try to be there" followed by her being mad that I wasn't early.

Last night, I texted her ahead of time "change of plans, going to be late. Call in a pizza order and I'll pick it up in 40 minutes"

It went GREAT! She was happy to have no burden of decision. I was happy to have a drama-free evening with my family.

I know this is really basic stuff, but I'm just starting out so this felt like a major victory for me

maxofreddit · 2016-02-25T18:53:49+00:00

I'm working daily on simply learning to follow my own lead and stop second guessing myself. The old me considered the input of everyone else involved before deciding. Now when I'm faced with a problem that requires a decision I ask myself what I need / would do first. If it affects others I will then adapt the solution to fit them in after.

This has lead to some unexpected behavior changes that my wife has picked up on. It has cut the use of "ummm" and "uhhs" out of my vocabulary almost completely when something needs an on the spot decision. I'm happier because I am being upfront about what I am going to do instead of asking others what they think about what I might do. If the situation changes or my solution didn't work I am able to adapt quickly by repeating the same method to find a new solution and no longer feel like a failure. It was my solution, it failed, I learn from it and keep going.

Instead of "What could me and the wife do today?" it's "I'm going for a hike and picking up some burritos afterwards. You're welcome to join me". Instead of "We have extra money this month, what should we spend it on?" it's "I'm putting 50% of the extra money into savings, 20% into the vacation fund, 20% towards student loan debt, and the rest is for a date night this Friday."

In the past I wasn't leading myself. So my wife didn't have anyone she could willingly follow. When I'm decisive and clear about what I'm going to do she almost never objects and seems excited she doesn't need to come up with her own solution.

TheCaptainG · 2016-02-25T17:17:16+00:00

As someone who has had lots of leadership training jammed down my throat, two things spring to my mind:

1) inspired/inspiring should be fleshed out to explicitly include the clear articulation of a better future

And

2) the people you lead need to feel certain you care about them and that you understand your job is to get barriers out of their way so they can help you make the vision happen

This made for good reading over lunch. Thanks.

Edit: And oh yeah, irrational self-confidence might be great for interpersonal relationships but it's not a good leadership strategy.

bogeyd6 · 2016-02-25T18:56:52+00:00

I'm going to be off topic on the RP lens here, but I've learned most of what I know from both the Canadian Military, and by watching the mistakes of others (of which my childhood gave me much experience)

Leadership

In the end, all it is, the ability to persuade people to act according to a goal. Now, to expand from that, there's an element of power that's involved. There's a few types of power:

Authoritative power - This is a cop commanding you to get on the ground. He has authority granted by the public to act in their best interests, and it's a recognized power. This is what everyone thinks of when they see the military too. Follow orders or you go to jail. And short of egregious examples, this hasn't been the case, outside of war on the ground.
Coercive power - This is where most actual power lies. When you get what everyone thinks of a leader, they think of this. Follow the man into hell because you want to follow his vision. He convinces you it's in your best interest to align with the missions best interest. This is how the military actually works, and most of life IMO. You like your boss, he's got your back, so you wake up and make it to watch on time. You don't want to fuck over your wingman, so you ensure you replace him on time, and he reciprocates.

Now, it's not always benevolent. The captain wants to make an example out of someone who embarrassed him, and the coxn goes out of his way to trump up charges, and delay the investigation as long as possible. On a ship, your Executive officer sexually harasses a junior member, the coxn 'loses' paperwork, until it ends up on the news. (both real life examples I'm drawing from here)

Lets bring this back around to people... eventually

A wonderful quote on people, which sets the stage

Most people have a real aversion to taking risk, and it's part of the lizard brain. I can't find it at the moment, BigThink has one where it talks about the role of leaders. You get the best part of the kill, the women etc. Because when the bear comes to attack your tribe, you're first one out there with a spear, and so people who aren't in that confident level of 'being the prize' tend to latch onto people with that irrational confidence. This is why some bozo just barking orders doesn't get the same kind of drive, but instead an eyeroll.

the mentee picks the mentor, not the other way around. I find leadership works the same way. We develop authoritative leadership to bypass this, but I find it's the exception, rather than the rule.

In context of a relationship

It's why, the more I read and discuss RP, that I find this to be the single most underrepresented part of it. Vision. It's why vampiresquidinias husband tucked his dick between his legs and went begging back to that former HB9 for forgiveness. It's why alpha as wolf almost nuked his marriage, and that latest guy (don't even remember his name) warned everyone about how he got frustrated, told her to fuck him or GTFO... and she GTFO.

It's the only common thread I can find with anyone here that turned their shit around. Litz was a fat fuck, worked his ass not to be, acted like a man. Bogey06, alphabet49, bluepillprofessor, me, the list goes on and on. Nothing in common. I've had a few cuban missile crisis with my spouse, the professor was at FMOFU. A lot of others didn't even have a main event, things just smoothly transitioned into smooth sailings. But every time I've seen a girl turn around, it's because of his leadership. He had a vision for the future, worked his ass off to get at that 'bear fighter' stage. she willingly submits to it, and now that monkey-level arrangement is working.

It doesn't rely on earning more money, being a better dad. I argue those things are tangential to it. Ultimatecad is now her 'top dog' husband, and he treats her like a plate. My first big decision out of the gate was to leave my career, and stop having to medicate my way into a pension, whinemoreplease picked up and moved... Others have tripled their incomes, become a competent dad. all different, but get the same goal.

An example.

Some of you family men spent christmas leading their families, stressful gift time, in laws, the works. You led, she followed, things got better. I led her a different route. No gifts, avoid the chaos, watch die hard and get drunk while I make dinner. There is no 'right' way to lead, but there are 'best practices'. Monkeys are scared, risk averse people. Be the kind of quality person that they know can fight off the bear, have a plan of action, and they'll come around.

[deleted] · 2016-02-25T17:34:50+00:00

Relevant

Redneck001 · 2016-02-25T18:27:38+00:00

I've quoted this before, but I think it bears repeating. I have this on the wall in my office:

Your Leadership is your influence. Your influence is the behaviours you choose to exhibit. Your behaviours determine your relationships with others. Your relationships with those you work and socialize determine your leadership successes and leadership failures. Leadership is all about relationships.

Directing doesn't factor in the "relationship" component.

Sadbeary · 2016-02-25T23:00:39+00:00

A woman in my team sent me this link and said it reminded her of me. I was pretty pleased though I told her I probably wouldn't get into the kissing.

https://www.ted.com/talks/simon_sinek_why_good_leaders_make_you_feel_safe?language=en

As /u/il-est-ressuscite said : the people you lead need to feel certain you care about them and that you understand your job is to get barriers out of their way so they can help you make the vision happen

If VPs get pissed at them I have their back.

I just need to take that shit home. "feel certain you care about them" is perhaps a current failure.

WhiteTrashKiller · 2016-02-25T18:03:20+00:00

Leaders don't just lead only when they need to. In the absence of true leadership, the sheep will listen to anyone.

Natural leaders are tinkerers. They pick apart things in life to determine how they fit together that way they can fix it when it breaks(it always breaks).

Leaders are tactful, get people to do what you want and have them feel good about doing it.

Anyone can direct, a leader is someone that can fix the chaotic mess that has happened after the situation became FUBAR'd.

There are natural born leaders, life experience either accentuates those properties or ruins them. That is why you have the dualistic opposing nature of an Alpha and Sigma personality trait. Both have the same ability to command and control their enviornment, but one feels the need for it and the other feels drained by it.........

cj_aubrey · 2016-02-25T19:48:40+00:00

I am going to tell you a little story: its not done yet.

I am having brain surgery in April. It will be in another state. My support system : I have a wife who will take care of me and drive me back to my state two days post surgery. I made arrangements for this . I booked hotels etc. I decided not to fly for medical reasons. I will have my mom come out with us. Thats two anxious women I will have to handle pre and post surgically. I have arranged for paid time off ( 4 weeks) during and after the surgery. I have arranged for on the job physical therapy afterwards so I can work and get rehab at the same time.

Plan Z - I may or may not have a wife when the surgery happens. I have two people standing by to drive if needed. I have a transport company should I need it. I have made arrangements for in home assistance for 3 weeks if needed. Two of the people who will be providing help if needed have showed interest in being plates.

Edit : I am not looking for potential plates to help when I am down, that's stupid. My point is backup / redundancy.

We will see how I handle it.

maxofreddit · 2016-02-27T14:51:49+00:00

solid stuff here /u/bogeyd6, and those posts by /u/strategos_autokrator have some really really solid stuff as well.

The one about leading a wife that doesn't let you hit home for me. I have this weird pint system in my head, where sometimes, I'll actually postpone a job around the house I want to do, and wait until she's around, just so she'll actually see what the fuck I'm doing. Not for recognition per se, but if she actively sees me doing shit, that hamster wheel sure the fuck slows down.

It's funny, that some projects, I'll initiate and do without her, partly for me to get them done, and partly so I can head off any fit she may throw. But if I acknowledge it's to prevent a fit of hers, she gets pissy. From that lead a wife post, I now see that thinking I'm leading by "staying ahead of her" is a different thing than "leading with my own vision." And the funny thing is that she can't articulate it, but /u/strategos_autokrator did it perfectly in that post. She doesn't want me leading to be motivated by her fits. She wants me to lead regardless of her emotional reaction. Of course, it's team work in the sense that if I missed something, like the dryer's broken and I didn't know, that yeah, she's gonna have suggestions, but once it's on the list, it'll get done.

It's the subtle differences that seem to get me the most. We're never quite done with this shit I guess!

Sepean · 2016-02-25T23:19:25+00:00

There's way too much comparison to actual leadership in this thread.

Your wife is not on your team.

Leading men is very different from leading the girl you're fucking. The relationship is much closer to what you have with your office rival than with your subordinate.

Title	An open dialogue on leading vs. directing
Author	bogeyd6
Upvotes	22
Comments	77
Date	February 25, 2016 5:05 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MarriedRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/47jw3a/an_open_dialogue_on_leading_vs_directing/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MarriedRedPill/an-open-dialogue-on-leading-vs-directing.200299 https://theredarchive.com/post/200299