Bending the Rules of Fight Club: Trolling MGTOW/PUA/MRA and Deadbedrooms for Married Red Pill

jacktenofhearts · 2016-02-13T23:14:09+00:00

So, just my $0.02 on this.

The reason why I invest so much time in my comments to guys here is because it's one of the few places that essentially demands you strip all pretenses at the door, and come in with your unvarnished and exposed ego.

If you ever tried giving anyone in real life advice, on anything? It's fucking annoying as shit. Someone saying, "can I ask you for advice?" is usually them just asking, can you validate how I already feel about something?

Or worse, they take your advice and blame you. Remember that alpha-as-wolf fucker? That's exactly what he did! Outside of MRP though, he is not the exception, he is the norm.

I think MRP is great because I don't need to do any of this Socratic Method bullshit. I'm happy to advise my friends because they're my friends and add value to my life in other ways. But fuck, it's really goddamn annoying to have to constantly advise someone by tricking them into pretending your ideas are actually theirs, which is sort of what the entire fucking Cognitive Behavioral Therapy discipline is about. MRP is one of the few places where we're all able to say, here's where you're fucking up, and here's some tools on how to solve it, and any outcomes are your responsibility and have someone actually fucking listen to you, and not cry if it doesn't work because, for example, they took everything you said hyperliterally.

The reason for this, I would theorize, is that the organic way men stumble into MRP usually starts with a lonely and depressed guy typing "why is my wife so hateful" into Google, and after various clicks across the web, he ends up as TRP and then MRP. And so I'm more than happy to drop 4000 words of advice on some shmuck whose wife isn't fucking him, because he's going to be a hell of a lot receptive to most people

Any outcome of a recruiting drive is going to change that. Our current and former military service members can correct me if this is a bad analogy, but I see it as the difference between an enlisted volunteer versus a conscript. One way or another, those volunteers came here on their own agency, so they're a lot more likely to be open to the ideas discussed. Red Knighting all over the place may bring us a bunch of conscripts who may be fucking annoying, and should we call them out, they do have a somewhat valid excuse to reply, What the fuck is your problem? What's all this shit that I have to do all this reading and I'm a loser for not doing so? YOU told ME to come post here!

If you want to grow the subreddit here, I would encourage more published non-Reddit content like /u/TrainingTheBrain's Family Alpha. If you came to me as one of my marketing clients, this is what I would advise. I would say you have a strong community here, and aggressively growing that community is an option, but not without significant risk to diluting that community.

The best way to increase growth is to develop more "external channels" outside Reddit, under the control of existing community members, with a consistent theme and message. If you have a political message, like, say, Fox News, then this is analogous to launching the Fox Business Network, which is basically "CNBC But We Like Republicans Even More," and then it's easy enough to engage that audience with the canonical Fox News fare like O'Reilly, Hannity, etc. That's way more effective than trying to air Fox News commercials on other TV networks, right?

I'm not saying we shouldn't ever participate on other subreddits. I know /u/FearDearg2015, for one, hangs around /r/DeadBedrooms and throws down some good "Red Bedrooms" wisdom bombs there every so often. But there's sort of an art to doing that. You need to kind of stick your toe in the water, then gradually introduce your ideas but coded in their language, and then other Redditors go, "hmm, I like what that guy has to say, I wonder if he has any other posts or comments," and then they see your posts on TRP and MRP and follow the ~~Yellow~~ Red Brick Road. Socratic method, right? If you want to do this, go do this. But it takes time and work and so you probably have to legitimately want to participate in that community anyway for fun, and not just for the sole sake of Red Knighting.

This isn't true to every community -- I doubt Coca-Cola gives a shit about the quality of the community on their Facebook Page, for example, and would just urge me to figure out how to fucking spam "Like" buttons for that Facebook page all over the fucking web -- but I think it's true here. I absolutely do understand the desire for the moderators to grow the community, but I think Red Knighting in the aforementioned places is going to give you a much different psychological "makeup" than the guys who currently find this place organically, and that may not be a good thing.

EDIT: Just realized I left out a good point for why "organic, homogeneous" growth is so important for MRP. MRP is what would be canonically defined as a "counterculture" community. I mean, if you want to talk about stoicism, I hope everyone here realizes this subreddit is literally destined to be ripped apart at some point in the future. Hopefully not for a long time, on the order of years, but eventually we will fragment between "counterculture members who want to be more countercultural out of principle" and "counterculture members who want to be less countercultural to be more palatable."

If you want a good example of how this already happened, consider that PUA has, broadly speaking, is a tree that split into two branches, what I'd call the "Mark Manson" branch and the "Roosh" branch. Manson is much more accepted in mainstream society, and can operate freely in that society and push his agenda without problems. Roosh would say that that "agenda" is watered-down, and he's The Real Deal, and fuck compromising on how you message that agenda. Manson would in turn say, yeah, OK, but I'm not the one who is literally getting banned from traveling to countries, so maybe I'm more success at what I'm trying to do than you are.

Fuck, you are already seeing this split again with Roosh and TRP, with Roosh's whole "Neomasculinity" bullshit.

So, I mean, this will happen to MRP. It's up to the moderators, but also really all of us, whether it happens in six months or six years, and whether it happens when we have 10,000 subscribers to this subreddit or 100,000. And I would argue Red Knighting all over the internet probably just ensures the former, in both cases, is more likely to happen.

bogeyd6 · 2016-02-13T23:25:56+00:00

It was a NEGATIVE comment about TRP in deadbedrooms that got me here. I don't think we need to start a missionary program. It could give some unintended results I think.

Nodeal_reddit · 2016-02-14T00:06:24+00:00

My thoughts: I think the reason the success rate is so high, is because (I'd wager) the majority of people find this place by actively searching for answers to their problem. You said it in your book when you typed something to the effect of "why won't my wife fuck me" into google. I did the EXACT same thing. The key here is that when blues find this place that way, it's MUCH easier for them to see the light AND do the work, because they're literally at wits end. They're actively looking for a solution so much so that they're randomly typing it into Google and searching links to see if ANYONE can decode what they're going through. They're ready to try anything.

If you start directing those who are posting to random other comment sections wherever you find them, sure you'll get 10 guys who are at that point anyway, but I'd wager you'll also get 60 guys who are just bitching on the internet, and another 30 trolls.

Bottom line: if the guys really want to solve their problem, if they're really willing to put in the work, they'll find this place just like you and I did.

Squeezymypenisy · 2016-02-14T00:34:08+00:00

I would disagree. The main sub is huge right now, but so many of the posts are filled with anger and rants. I always liked this place because it gave me LTR advice and focused specifically on finding ways to fix issues and keep improving. Sometimes the main sub gets overwhelmed by news articles that guys see on facebook. My question is, what are they doing reading those in the first place?

Nodeal_reddit · 2016-02-14T02:05:06+00:00

Nitpick question: Cite vs Site - are these swapped on purpose?

[deleted] · 2016-02-13T22:13:42+00:00

I let the Bluepill do my recruiting for me.

Trekneck · 2016-02-13T22:07:34+00:00

I occasionally lurk on /relationships as it's what led me here 6 months ago. When and if I come across those who remind me of me, I silently PM them with some information on where they can find the resources they need.

It's water thay has to be tread lightly, especially in certain subs, but ultimately the "you don't talk about fight club" scenario is defeating. Whether you like the pukes or not, at one point we all found our way here and more than likely did the same thing. If MRP has served you in even the slightest way to improve yourself, you should pay it forward, if only once.

That said, if you've not made it through AT LEAST the pre req reading, it does nobody any favors to go spreading the word, talking about dread or shit tests when you don't fully have a grasp on the concepts let alone the execution.

tim_rp · 2016-02-14T12:10:18+00:00

Perhaps not surprisingly, /u/jacktenofhearts comments are bang on the money. Bang on.

I've invested enough of my life - personally and professionally - in internet communities to know MRP is onto a good thing right now. As Jackten said, this is not a fixed state. Internet communities are fickle and - almost universally - today's thriving meeting places are tomorrow's dull wastelands.

There's a fairly uniform culture on MRP as it stands. A bunch of guys comparing notes, seeing results, pondering, reporting back. It's a pretty solid formula. The odd /u/alphaaswolf sticks out like a sore thumb.

Compare to the main TRP sub. Though they've clearly tried to stem the tide of shitty posts with an "intro/main body/conclusion/tl:dr formula" there's still plenty of guys there to have a whinge about the state of the world today. MRP offers solid, practical advice, for the most part.

To preserve the culture here, I wouldn't necessarily advocate a "first rule of fight club"-type lockdown, but I would advocate nuance in speaking about MRP outside of this sub.

MRPCowboy · 2016-02-14T13:00:18+00:00

I am 100% with /u/jacktenofhearts on this one, but for different reasons.

If you want me to ambassador this place, better start giving me some ownership, I ain't your Avon lady.
So my first reddit account is something like 7 years old now. It's been around since before subreddits were a thing, and there's been a big fault in reddits design the entire time, and it's exactly why explosive growth is what you don't want. The logarithmic formula for votes means that faster voted stuff moves faster than well thought out stuff. you'd basically be killing /u/jacktenofhearts posting model.

And replacing it with low quality content, by definition. You ideally want either a huge moderator team constantly culling shit from the herd (bot assisted) or slow enough growth that the new users and their pablum doesn't drown out established users before they can be acclimized to how things work here.

having said that, strip the inner-speak in your posts, and you'll be very popular in relationship subs. Hell, I even have highly upvoted comments in TBP, referincing my own post that was being brigaded at the time. People are stupid

triclops41 · 2016-02-14T17:38:49+00:00

Many excellent points that caution against growing too large too quickly. To add on to jacktenofhearts point that MRP isn't immortal; once MRP reaches a certain size, it will become an explicit target for destruction by SJWs. Once that happens, MRP will become worthless in short order. Honestly, the best hope for extending the reach of MRP is to keep it good and small as long as possible, and preserve all the advice and debates somewhere off reddit for other men to find later. The main thing to think about growing MRP is the assimilation rate. If it grows too fast, the original culture will be overwhelmed. Even if it isn't SJWs meaning harm, well intentioned BP, AFC would ruin MRP.

cj_aubrey · 2016-02-14T02:23:03+00:00

These ideas have the ability to help men lead happier lives and the recent post about suicide illustrates why that's important. For that reason I think spreading the word is worth the effort. Based on my experience with another organization I would suggest the following approach for communicating to another man who might benefit from our help

1) Show the new guy you have personal experience with his problems by writing a few sentances about your personal experience of how things were before MRP. My wife used to do X, she said she wanted Y, I did Z and she just got angrier and fucked me less.

2) Explain very briefly that you started following MRP without going into many specifics.

3) Tell him what your life is like now. She fucks me like a porn star maybe 4 times per week.

Focus on your personal experience. This is powerful for new guys and very hard for 3rd parties to argue with. I have seen this formula work well many times.

[deleted] · 2016-02-14T13:28:41+00:00

Finding this place took me 2-3 days of looking around the net. I didn't know what Reddit was.
Just sayin

phoenix_md · 2016-02-14T14:35:11+00:00

Love the idea BPP. I can't seem to stop trying to help people understand RP truth (Maybe it's our Christian upbringing). I direct people to MRP on r/relationships and r/deadbedrooms all the time, though often I'll just directly PM the OP to avoid all the RP haters out there. It only takes 1 viewing of our subreddit to hook people in.

This past week I anonymously sent No More Mr. Nice Guy and MMSLP to a few relatives. Never tried that before but can't stand their beta ways any longer.

ford_contour · 2016-02-13T22:10:12+00:00

I read a few of the mentioned sites. RM occasionally mentions MRP, but I have never seen it anywhere else. RPW doesn't even have a link in their list of RP sites. They show TRP, but not MRP, which always seemed strange to me.

NiftyDolphin · 2016-02-17T23:50:54+00:00

The Red Pill doth not prosper, for if it prospers none dare call it The Red Pill.

Blue-Pillers have worked hard for years to establish the narrative that the Red Pill is a poisonous one, and it's taken root.

Unfortunately for them, if you don't mention RP, the blupes have a much harder time dissuading people from paying attention, because most RP is, at it's heart, plain-old, common-sense good advice.

This has trickled-down into BP strongholds.

In 2012, advising choreplay was all the rage. The AFCs now recognize it as a shit strategy. Even the blupers have to go full-tilt toward hyperbole before they can push that.

I remember seeing posts back in the day, some guy thinks his GF/Wife is cheating on him. Has a string of circumstantial evidence.

Then: "Errrmerrgerrrd, you're controlling and snooping! I'd dump you!"

Now: "Seen it before. She's cheating. Check her phone when she's asleep."

Reality wins. How Things Actually Are prevail over How Things Should Be.

In responding to someone's post, if you consistently predict what is going to happen, vs what the blupers think should happen, then people are going to perk up and pay attention.

If you mention RP, which blupers have spent years of effort constructing a poisonous narrative about, then people aren't going to pay attention. They'll see RP and then turn their brains off.

But if you leave out the mention of RP in hostile areas, people will react to the substance of your posts. If you predict How Things Actually Are often enough, then people are going to click on your user name, follow your posting history back to here, and then learn about the rest of the Red Pill.

Personally, I'm more inclined to just let people trickle in. A large influx of newbies means a large influx of people in the anger stage. I hate dealing with people in the anger stage. Rant Rant Rant. They never just STFU and read the side-bar.

Title	Bending the Rules of Fight Club: Trolling MGTOW/PUA/MRA and Deadbedrooms for Married Red Pill
Author	BluepillProfessor
Upvotes	13
Comments	65
Date	February 13, 2016 9:57 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MarriedRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/45mwy9/bending_the_rules_of_fight_club_trolling/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MarriedRedPill/bending-the-rules-of-fight-club-trolling.200348 https://theredarchive.com/post/200348

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