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Verbal Intercourse is Optional

Reddit View
October 28, 2015
60 upvotes

The matters we discuss here are all about creating sexual options by becoming a better Man. It is about developing the mindset of abundance and embracing the fact that YOU have control of your life. If you put in the work…

It's also about realizing your wife has similar control. To rehash everyone's favorite example, your wife has control over whether or not she is receptive to your want for sexual intercourse (aka fucking). You may be married and shared in some vows, but you simply do not own her body. If you initiate sex and she gives a ‘hard no’, you back off and play it cool. That's just how it works. This journey is not about forcing anyone to do anything they don’t want to do. Quite the contrary. You only control yourself and your job is to work on yourself and make it where she simply cannot fathom saying ‘no' to such a high value Man. The sidebar (look to your right--> ) is The Instruction Manual for the assembly of such a Man. Read the instructions before attempting to completely re-assemble yourself.

But there is some good news for you. These rules of control cut both ways.

To beginners, we give the advice that you should simply shut up as you work to internalize all these concepts. You must stop engaging the emotional chaos around you until you can learn how to manage yourself first. But when you begin to establish this stoic frame, your wife feels it and is jarred by it. She will attempt to engage further to test your resolve.

You need not engage.

However, what do you do when your wife persists and chases you around the house with her raging emotions trying to initiate verbal intercourse (aka talking)? It’s simple…give the ‘hard no’ to her initiations. If you don't want to have a conversation, say 'I'm not having this conversation.' And leave the room. If she persists and continues to follow you around the house demanding you speak while ignoring your ‘hard no', remove yourself from her presence physically by leaving the house. Go for a walk, go to the store, or better yet go to the gym. When your wife gives her 'no' to sex and leaves the bedroom, do you follow her around the house with your raging erection trying to jam it whatever orifice she's left uncovered? I'm betting she wouldn't be fond of that, and if she is then you should have just tried that years ago...

Until you're worth fucking, she has every right to say no to sharing in sex. And until you think she's worth conversing with, you have every right to say no to sharing in conversation. But now you're at a stalemate right? Wrong. Your self improvement will break the stalemate. As you build the body of a worthy man who possess strong frame, she will want to engage you sexually. In return and with time, you will want to converse with your now sexual wife who gives off a wonderfully feminine air even during simple talks. Well, that is until the next fitness test...

For the benefit of both you and your wife, break the stalemate and get to work. Read, lift…and repeat.

TLDR: Don’t chase your wife around the house with your raging erection. Don’t let your wife chase you around the house with her raging emotions. Sexual and verbal intercourse is optional.


Post Information
Title Verbal Intercourse is Optional
Author sexyshoulderdevil
Upvotes 60
Comments 28
Date 28 October 2015 09:37 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit MarriedRedPill
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/200784
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/3qm961/verbal_intercourse_is_optional/
Similar Posts

Red Pill terms found in post:
hard noabundanceframelift
Comments

[–]jacktenofheartsMarried MRP APPROVED79 points80 points  (17 children) | Copy

Something of a counterargument: the men who need to actively remember this, almost definitely don't have a strong enough frame to consistently manage the inevitable result -- which as you described, is typically:

However, what do you do when your wife persists and chases you around the house with her raging emotions trying to initiate verbal intercourse (aka talking)?

The analog to a woman's sexuality is a man's attention. The basic transaction in male/female courtship is men trading attention and women trading sex. Every type of male-female interaction follows this. Little boys tease the girls they actually like the most. High school boys tolerate a shitty rom-com movie to get a hand job in the back seat in the theater. College boys put in the time to throw keggers so the cute sorority girls come by. And so and so forth.

So women typically react to undesirable behavior -- undesirable attention -- by shutting down sex. When your wife would observe the Blue Pill you, and took stock of the lumpy, slothful, passive person she called her husband, is she going to feel particularly attracted to that? If she going to respond to watching you waste so much attention on videogames or junk food, with sex? Of course not. It would be nice if women could communicate this, if they could plainly state, look, you're acting like a loser, and I'm not attracted to losers. But they can't, that kind of overt communication is not what they're used to. All they can really do is nag that you play videogames while they do chores, and then you do some chores, and wonder why she still doesn't want to have sex.

Because what happens if they do communicate it overtly? Our egos could take it if they said, "you're acting like a loser, please engage in some attraction-enhancing activities instead, even if they have nothing to do with me." But instead the women that do try and overtly communicate it say something like this: "we're not having sex until [you fulfill some condition that has nothing to do with sex]," which even some Blue Pill betas would consider that a "weaponizing sex" and a "damaging ultimatum."

Men are bad at covert communication, and women are bad at overt communication. So realize when Red Pill men are instructed to withdraw attention when their wife is acting undesirable, you're advising covert communication that they're very likely bad at. This is why we talk so much about "covert contracts" -- we're trying to speak covertly and then getting upset when our wives don't respond. Of course they don't respond, because we're bad at it.

Which is why so many guys stumble in here, saying their wife shot them down for sex, they fucked off out of bed and tried to do something else, and their wives accused them of being "butthurt." This is why it goes as poorly as a woman saying, "no videogames, no sex." Both situations -- the woman giving her husband an overt sexual ultimatum and the man ignoring his wife after he was turned down for sex -- invites feelings of manipulation, hostility, confrontation.

Should you withdraw your attention if your wife is behaving in a way that doesn't deserve your attention? Of course. What you should not do is clumsily bring your attention level from 100 to 0. Your wife is not entitled to your attention, but she is entitled to feel upset when you suddenly withdraw your attention after a pattern of years of giving her attention unconditionally. And if you just swallowed the Red Pill, as I said, you will not have the frame to deal with an upset wife who is pissed that you're changing the rules.

Because you are, in fact, changing the rules. The reason why "a husband is not entitled to have sex with his wife on demand, unconditionally" is not a controversial statement is because this is accepted conventional wisdom. "A wife is not entitled to get her husband's attention on demand, unconditionally" is not accepted conventional wisdom. Your wife, and likely everyone else in your life, including yourself until you swallowed the Red Pill, really did think those were the rules. And this is what upsets people, just like "no videogames or no sex" also comes across as changing the rules.

But "a sustained pattern of undesirable behavior resulting a loss of attraction and thus a lack of desire for attention and/or sex" -- those are pretty conventional rules too. Which is why a marriage counselor would completely support a wife who painstakingly described her lack of libido as being the result of all her husband's loser actions, but would scold a wife who gave her husband that "no videogames or no sex" ultimatum.

It’s simple…give the ‘hard no’ to her initiations.

And this is why I typically advise against newly unplugged guys doing exactly this. A "hard no" will come across as changing the rules, and this will piss of your wife, because you're basically telling her you were complicit in those rules until you stumbled across a subreddit and decided otherwise. You are absolutely entitled to withdraw your attention, but there are countless ways you can do so, over time, with much less confrontation and damage done to your marriage in the process. The classic method is not explicitly withdrawing your attention in direct response to undesirable behavior, but gradually adding activities to your life, activities that direct your attention elsewhere. Because what are the likely outcomes of these two scenarios?

Wife: "Do you want to get frozen yogurt and then watch some Netflix tonight?" You: "No, because you didn't fuck me last night."

OR

Wife: "Do you want to get frozen yogurt and then watch some Netflix tonight?" You: "Maybe another time, I've got my softball game tonight."

So yes, for you unplugging guys, your wife will turn you down for sex, and you'll be so tempted to leave the room and otherwise withdraw your attention in direct response. Don't do this. Take a deep breath, remain stoic. At that very moment, continue to do whatever activity you were currently doing. If you were watching a shitty TV show with your wife, finish watching that shitty TV show. Use that time to take stock of your life, to ponder how things got here, spending your evenings watching TV shows you don't like, with a woman who doesn't seem to like you very much. Start thinking about a plan to change that situation, and what kind of goals would indicate you're succeeding in that plan. Then, when the TV show is done, excuse yourself to go to the bathroom, then go to another room, and start writing down some notes for that plan.

The next morning, your wife may want to kiss you goodbye before you go to work, as she often likes to do. You will be upset once again, wondering why she gets the attention and intimacy of a kiss while you get nothing in return. And then she'll text you inane shit during the day, getting pissy if you don't promptly text her back and acknowledge you'll do everything on that "honey-do" list. Once again, ponder how you got here, come up with a concrete solution to get yourself out, and until then proceed normally. Your wife asks you do run errands after work because you're a loser who has no friends to hang out with, or hobbies to pursue, after work. You start improving your life and your marriage by fixing that, not by abruptly not answering texts. Not answering texts is just going to piss her off and have her accusing you of being an asshole.

Are you an asshole simply because you didn't answer your wife's text on demand? Of course not. Do you have the frame to resist her calling you an asshole without losing your cool? Without DEERing? Without blurting out maybe you'd respond to her texts if she put out once in awhile? For a lot of us still struggling to choke down the Red Pill, the answer to those questions is "no." Until your frame is strong enough, then simply continue to comply with most of the old rules your wife perceives (ie. she is entitled to your attention unconditionally), while you act to subvert them over time.

Because your wife will ask you to do some annoying errand, and you'll say you have a softball game, and she'll get pissed off. Pissed off something else has a higher priority for her attention than herself. But those are easy enough Shit Tests to deal with, because you'll be arguing about softball, and you'll never have to say anything that sounds remotely close to, "you're not entitled to my attention." You will simply act, over a sustained and gradual period of time, in a way that changes the rules without even her realizing it.

[–]rurpe14 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy

This should be its own post

[–]Redneck001MRP APPROVED8 points9 points  (3 children) | Copy

I like what you're saying. But at some point, you must break the cycle. And a little pain up front is required for any change.

Not saying "I love you" and breaking a habit or ignoring a bullshit text isn't RP Rambo, IMO.

I unplugged slowly, and as a result, avoided a Main Event. If I had to do it again, I'd ramp the timeline up.

At some point, you have to step into the batter's box and face big league pitching. Because most women are throwing some serious heat.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy

Slowly unplugging allows time for:

SMV to rise

Concepts to become internalized

Anger to fade

Outside interests to develop and replace emotional core that wife may have held

I lurked for a long long time before creating this account. I was in the gym five days a week, looking for new work, snooping on wife's emails and credit card receipts, man did that keep the pill down.

At some point my independence just grew and the world started treating me very differently.

[–]sexyshoulderdevil75% Liquid Sarcasm[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

My post is somewhat similar to the delivery of the AWALT theory. An oversimplification of a complex point to drive the idea home. From there you must determine the spectrum of whatever you're dealing with on your own and implement on a sliding scale.

[–]sexyshoulderdevil75% Liquid Sarcasm[S] 3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy

I disagree with nothing you said. My post is a nod to the men on AskTRP receiving direct questions from their wives (via text or at home) about the changes they're sensing and wondering what to do about her emotions especially if they don't respond directly. I'm attempting to draw the parallel to the fact that a response isn't always owed just like sex isn't guaranteed. They do need to follow your advice though and ramp up their red pill actions with care. But they do need to STFU with regards to the specifics of what they're doing. I am most certainly not a fan of what I call the Red Pill Rambo...he who lays waste to their marriage immediately with the Red Pill Rocket. Care and diligence is required and absorbing the Sidebar is mandatory. If your wife is prodding at you to figure out where some of these changes are coming from, you don't need to engage the conversation to explain. Once he gets some frame under his belt, he can start responding with less STFU and utilize more playful methods like agree & amplify.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

Direct questions from wives should be treated like anything else she says. Not serious.

[–]KyfhoMyobaMRP APPROVED4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

Direct questions from wives should be treated like anything else she says. Not serious.

Got to disagree. When a woman goes explicit and overt (as opposed to her normal implicit and covert) it means that she is desperate and near the end of her rope. For no other reason will she so drastically change her preferred method of communication.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Interesting, I want to think about this a bit

[–]KyfhoMyobaMRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Rollo has a lot to say on the topic.

[–]sexyshoulderdevil75% Liquid Sarcasm[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Agreed. But in the beginning he's likely still a frightened little bunny unsure what to do with his wife's huge, scary-ass emotions. Before he would own them too completely. Once he realizes he has little to fear, he can play with her again like the little boy on the playground.

[–]FearDearg2015Married- MRP MODERATOR2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Awesome reply. This really should be a post on its own. I think it's how the PUA guys lost their way. They got too focused in the techniques rather than the reason behind them. They focused on the means rather than the ends. For better or worse, we got married because we wanted to spend the rest of our lives with our "oneitis". The red pill is hard to swallow because it is like you said: an immediate change in the rules,maybe even an immediate change of game. But just because your life became harder because you have woken up to the truth, that doesn't mean that everyone around you should be drawn into your mental anguish of having the Disney dream shattered. Take it slow, make it last.

Nice post, would read again. 5 stars

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Wife "do you want to get frozen yogurt...."

"Nah"

[–]itsgavinc1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

The next morning, your wife may want to kiss you goodbye before you go to work, as she often likes to do. You will be upset once again, wondering why she gets the attention and intimacy of a kiss while you get nothing in return.

This is only viewed as attention and intimacy from a man's point of view. Very few women view it as such, especially women where they refuse to have sex with their husbands.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yes, agree. Revolution vs evolution.

People responds more nicely, or even accept without much fighting ,slow, even lazy changes.

[–]rurpe0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Because your wife will ask you to do some annoying errand, and you'll say you have a softball game, and she'll get pissed off. Pissed off something else has a higher priority for her attention than herself. But those are easy enough Shit Tests to deal with, because you'll be arguing about softball, and you'll never have to say anything that sounds remotely close to, "you're not entitled to my attention." You will simply act, over a sustained and gradual period of time, in a way that changes the rules without even her realizing it.

This may be the best example of what mrp teaches. It has everything: Shit Tests, OI, AM, Frame, Acta non verba, etc. This really needs to be sticked in the main sub for a long time.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Very well said.

[–]cholomiteCholo Rojo - MRP MODERATOR5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

This post was hella helpful to me. I just wanted to wait until other people commented so it didn't seem like I was dick riding. Thanks for your insight. I learned a lot.

[–]sexyshoulderdevil75% Liquid Sarcasm[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Great. I like that you're working to bring the word 'hella' back...it's not used enough. And it's awesome.

[–]SorcererKingMRP SAGE - MRP MODERATOR2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Nice way to look at it. The idea of the neurotic girlfriend or wife always wanting to "talk about the relationship" is not a cliche' for nothing.

You would be a terror over at TBP.

[–]SorcererKingMRP SAGE - MRP MODERATOR5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy

sexual intercourse (aka fucking)

Glad you clarified that one for us, Ace.

[–]sexyshoulderdevil75% Liquid Sarcasm[S] 4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy

A touch of levity on my part...and meant to tie in with my later reference: "verbal intercourse (aka talking)." I do like the name Ace though.

[–]SorcererKingMRP SAGE - MRP MODERATOR-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy

Feel free to call yourself that.

[–]sexyshoulderdevil75% Liquid Sarcasm[S] 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

[–]innergametrumpsall0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

You should create framework that a hard no is really not entirely tolerated at the house. I mean there are days where its just not happening. But the default should be yes, not maybe. No should be a great exception to the rule.

[–]sexyshoulderdevil75% Liquid Sarcasm[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Well sure but if that was so easy, then all this red pill nonsense wouldn't be necessary...

[–]innergametrumpsall1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Just saying it wasn't mentioned, it's part of mrp.



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