Tips to Dating Out of Your League

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December 12, 2014

There's a lot of threads with great discussions currently happening, but I wanted to give the community some tips and tricks that have worked very well for me.

This guide is not about sleeping with hot gay men. In a sense, that is relatively easy. Keeping their attention, on the other hand, is where game theory comes in.

I'll try and write a topic about getting their attention at a later date. For the purposes of this guide, however, I'm going to assume you already have your "in". I am assuming you are messaging each other back and forth on a website, have met each other at the club, or have a first date scheduled. That will be our starting point.

Background: In straight relationships, men put much more importance on a girl's appearance than they do her career or success level. As of recently, women have been entering the work force, and thus, I believe men who are aware of the rising divorce rates (etc.) are beginning to "unplug" and make decisions that involve more than their dick.

Despite this, a woman's appearance still plays the biggest role in determining her value. An extremely hot woman with no job will still be in the top league. Women of ALL "leagues", however, can increase/decrease their perceived value depending on their behavior, responses, attitude, etc.

For gay men, navigating this sexual market is not as easy. We are obviously very visual and still prefer attractive partners, but at the same time, we are not given a "free pass" from being successful. A hot gay guy who is also wealthy/ambitious/etc. is not likely to enter into a relationship with you simply because you're hot. He might fuck you, he might entertain the thought of you, but there's a good chance he won't be jumping through hoops of fire to be with you unless you are comparatively successful.

After & successful gay men have MANY options. Unless you're out of this world attractive, you can't just slide by on your looks alone. For most gay people, sex comes relatively easy. We consider our partners, however, as direct reflection of ourselves.

So how can a gay man date someone out of his league?

By mind fucking them.

Tip 1: Never feed their ego.

If you're getting picked up in his car, or about to get in it, etc. do not comment on his vehicle. I don't give a flying [email protected]!k if you're about to sit passenger in a lime green 2014 Bentley. Just get in and do NOT comment on it.

There are many cars that are highly rated but do not spark conversation. If he has one of those, keeping quiet will not have as big of an effect. If the car model is "average but brand new" not comment on how new it is. Just don't comment on it at all.

If he has the type of car that he KNOWS will turn heads, like a Audi, Lexus, blah blah is all the more important you don't feed his ego. There are plenty of people commenting on his car. If you want to present yourself as "high value", then don't join the fan club.

There are a few situations in my past where it felt awkward NOT to comment on the vehicle because that's how loud the sky blue Audi A8 was screaming for my approval. I could legitimately sense the confusion when I said nothing about it.

By acting NOT impressed with his luxury car, you're giving off the vibe that you're used to this stuff (even if you aren't). He might drive a Mercedes, but for all he knows, your ex drove a Rolls Royce. Keep him guessing.

Bonus Tip: Insult his choice of car. The straight manosphere calls this a "neg", which is essentially knocking a high value women off her totem pole. If you're confident in your red pill abilities, don't be afraid to use this trick. About to sit in a luxury car? Casually tell him this money could have been better spent on investments or put into a savings account.

Stepping away from the topic of cars, let's assume you and him are discussing schools.

I don't care if you went to a two year community college...just make sure that you say whatever it is CONFIDENTLY. Don't say: "Just Bunker Hill Community College..." or "Just so and so...". If you didn't go to college, say whatever your reasons for not doing so confidently. It won't be a good look to a guy who went to an elite college, but saying it confidently will help soften the blow.

If he went to a well known school, such as Harvard, Stanford, MIT, yadda yadda yadda....act unphased. Don't sit there and be like "omg wow...."...You look pathetic. I live in Boston, and as such...I am SURROUNDED by these type of guys. They literally get off on telling people about where they go to school. Don't give them the satisfaction of acting impressed.

By not commenting on the usual things that makes this gay man very confident, like his car, school, fashion sense, etc... you're much more likely to convince him you're high value. He's more likely to be self conscious. He might think he's not cute. etc.

For the first weeks of dating a high value is VERY important to not get sucked up in his "high status" life. Be very careful with giving out compliments.

Tip 2: Demonstrate confident / alpha behavior...even if you're a bottom.

Any time I go on a first date with a guy, I always throw them a shit test very early on. If he made a reservation to a restaurant, doesn't matter if its fancy, I tell him I'm "cold" and would prefer to go to another restaurant. Or...upon walking in and seeing that it is crowded, confidently express that I don't feel like waiting and redirect him outside. It doesn't really matter the reason I give him, all that matters is that I confidently express an opinion and then seek to fix the problem without concern for his own feelings.

I have, not kidding, had two guys comment on how much they loved the fact that I spoke my mind.

One guy told me: "I thought it was kind of cool how you changed our plans last second. I mean, really, you don't know me so that was kind of bold."

I respond: "What do you mean?"

He goes: "I don't know...I just think that because you aren't comfortable with me yet that you would have put up with it for the sake of a first date. I like your honesty, that's all."

I ended up friendzoning this particular guy...and even though we went on just one date, he's been texting me every few weeks for about a year now. This alpha behavior is a serious aphrodisiac for gay men. Don't be afraid to take charge.

Tip 3: Give them commands/orders.

"Hand me the bread." "Turn off the light please." "Pick that up." "Change the song, I hate it."

I have no idea why gay guys love being told what to do...but trust me, they do. Toss them a few commands just for the sake of establishing dominance and they will secretly love it.

There was one guy I was dating for a few months who thought he was "all that and a bag of chips". I use to wake him up in the middle of the night for absolutely NO reason just to tell him: "Can you get me a glass of water?".

One time he commented that he felt like he was a slave. The kicker? I ended up breaking it off with him and yet he still tries to maintain contact with me.

Lol...I know this tactic sounds very rude but it works. Throw in a "please" every once in a while for good measure, but don't be afraid to just boldly give an order.

Tip 4: Don't fuck them too early.

If a guy is a total catch and you REALLY want it to be long term with him, it is imperative that you do not sleep or hook up with him for AT LEAST 4 months.

Gay guys get sex really easy...and once they get it, they have no reason to continue getting to know you. It's like buying a new book, reading the last 100 pages, and then start backing from the beginning and expecting yourself to remain interested.

By not sleeping with them, you are giving yourself more time to raise your perceived social value. He might be "hotter" or "more successful" than you...but you're treating yourself with respect and simultaneously bashing his self confidence. It works.

Bonus Tip: Don't be afraid to have sleep overs and cuddle the hell out of him. Just don't get sexual. By sleeping next to him, you're performing an extremely intimate act without compromising your social value. If he is persistent with trying to hook up with you, don't say: "it's too soon". That tells him you're playing by a set of rules and will completely ruin the "vibe" you're going for. If you don't bang him and then tell him WHY...he won't take it personal. He won't think you're any cooler than you really are because of that. Be bold and reject him.

Bonus Tip 2: If you experience a conversation similar to the one below...and chances are you will....I have a very good response that works wonders.

You: "Stop touching me, I don't want to hook up with you." Him: "Um...okay. Why?" You: "Don't take this the wrong way, but if I hook up with you tonight there's a good chance I'll get bored with you."

Some sort of variation of that is an AMAZING line. Why? Because you just told this "high value" guy that YOU will get bored of HIM if you hook up! That is a tremendous blow to his self confidence...and, if he's truly a high value guy, he is not use to hearing such things.

The trick to keeping the attention of a high value gay male is to ALWAYS present yourself as the one of higher value. YOU are the prize, not him.

Tip 5: Stay on top of your texting game.

I could write a book on this section, but honestly, I'm feeling lazy. I'll keep it short and simple.

Make sure he is texting you first much more often than you're texting him.

If you can feel a texting conversation "fizzling" out, be sure to let it die first. Make sure a convo dies with HIM saying something last, not you. Even if the conversation isn't quite "ready to die" or could perhaps deserve an "okay" or "hahaha" from you...don't give it to him.

Don't overuse "lols" and "hahas" and things like that. People overuse these in an effort to take away any awkwardness or seriousness from a conversation. They act as social lubricants. Stop using them and you take on a much more "alpha" and confident persona.

Use their first name in texts every so often. I have no idea why this is effective, perhaps because when parents are exerting dominance over their children they tend to use first names...but it's effective. It's bold. WARNING: Don't overdo this. There's a fine line between confident and creepy.

Don't text him all day with nonsense. Keep it short and simple. Text him to confirm or make plans. It's okay to engage in small amounts of "chatter", but you want to give him the idea that you're a busy guy. Don't overdo it. If you spend all day on the phone talking to him, you're giving him the impression that you have no life and that he is already the center of it.

Tip 6: Don't give him reactions if he is trying to get reactions.

If he does something that annoys you...or is an obvious attempt to get your attention, don't give it to him. Your silence is much more effective than ANYTHING you could ever say back.

In the early stages of dating, if you see a lot of gay people liking his pictures, statuses, etc...don't bring it up. You will look insecure.

Bonus tip: Don't like his statuses or pictures, otherwise you're joining his fan club and positioning yourself to join the friendzone.

Tip 7: Be prepared for shit tests of his own.

Let's say he has been texting you first for about 2 weeks now. He is obviously interested & you've been successful in convincing him you're a guy worth being least for two weeks. Let's say, hypothetically speaking, he suddenly has gone cold. He hasn't texted you ALL day and it's now 5PM and you're wondering what is going on. Does he not like you anymore? Should you text him?

I GUARANTEE this moment will happen...and it is ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL that you act appropriately. If you sense a power struggle like this taking place, do NOT crack and give in. The second you crack and text him first, he will realize that "he's got you". He knows that by not texting got you thinking about him. In theory, you might WANT to let him know you're interested....but for high value guys, it is important to let him he know that he has more work to do if he wants to get inside your head.

When I feel a power struggle like this taking place, I literally tell myself: "If he does not text me first, I don't care. We just won't talk again because I will not text him first."

Do you really think you'll never hear from him again? Do you honestly think that after a few weeks of consistent texting he'll simply just remain silent forever and you'll never speak again? NOPE. So do NOT text him, because he will crack. I don't care if it's been 28 hours.

The trick is to look busy, important, etc. You want to seem like you have options.

If this guy gives you a little bit of attention and then throws you a shit test two weeks into it, it is very important you do not feed into it. If you crack, you're essentially telling him that two weeks was all it took to win you over.

Tip 8: People want to get in your head even more than they want to get in your pants.

Be careful with your emotions in the early stages. Don't get upset or angry over simple things. Don't give him the satisfaction of thinking he has any sort of control over you.

High value people treat themselves with respect. High value people are not won over easily. High value people don't put up with bullshit. High value people do not waste time with arguing....they simply next them and "move on to the next one".

You need to convince him you're worth more than you really are. Do NOT let him use you as a confidence booster.


The early stages in a relationship is very important. How you act, respond, and conduct yourself at the start is critical to the relationship in the long term. It is much easier to start a relationship out on the right foot than it is to fuck it up and back peddle. First impressions are everything.

About 6 months into it, the "game playing" should ease up. He'll generally understand how the relationship will function and start playing by your rules. Feel free to be "nicer" to him once you are VERY confident that he is sticking around...but if you ever sense him "pulling" away, don't panic...just start acting appropriately.

Post below with any of your suggestions.

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Title Tips to Dating Out of Your League
Upvotes 10
Comments 5
Date 12 December 2014 11:14 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit altTRP
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Red Pill terms found in post:
alphafriend zoneshit testdominancegamethe red pillmanosphere

[–]9481670532487151 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

this sounds like it's written by an insecure women who wants to get herself a man that stays with her. I donno, being gay for me has always been about not fucking around with eachother. no fucking mind games. if someone plays games with me then im gone. someone who's confident with themselves, their career, their looks doesnt act like that. and you reaaally want to stay away from guys like you and save yourself a whole lot of drama.

[–]raredare3590 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

That's the thing - these "games" are not immediately obvious and help foster true attachment feelings.

If you haven't grasped that concept yet, you won't get much from this subreddit.

[–]omnipedia0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Brilliant! I have nothing useful to add but I loved this post!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Continuing off of tip 1: DO NOT COMPLIMENT HIM ON HIS "MANLINESS". Do not compliment him on his height. It's not an original topic, and if you say that during the get to know you phase, you sound like not only a fan but you sound like you have absolutely no substance whatsoever.

[–]ParkerGrieves0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Tip 3: Give them commands/orders.

Well, theres a lot of good stuff in here, but three caught be attention. This is one of the things I would never have imagined about frame until it happens.

Early on with my current BF I started out with the PC bullshit language of "We should do such and such" any time there was a task to be done. I always fully expected to be the one to have to do it, as was always my experience with girls. But over a short time I noticed that he would take my suggestion and do it. "We should" promptly became "could you" then later "go do".

I keep my orders within reason, and there is a part of me that still feels a little weird about it. But it obviously works. He is happy to help and I consider that a gauge of how the relationship is fairing.

The only downside to doing this regularly is that I've begun to consider the boy as a third appendage. Moderation is the key.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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