Rebuilding attraction with wife

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January 6, 2019

I’m 41. 6’1” tall, 225 lbs. Bench 335, squat 385, dead lift 395. Wife is 42, in great shape and attractive.

We're a second marriage. Been married a little over a year. Been together about three years. Found the redpill a short while back.

About a few months ago, I puked and have been exhibiting some needy behavior on an off. I know the extent of it and began to mitigate and have stopped. Reading side bar and applying my new MAP for about 7 or 8 days.

We suddenly went from hot passionate sex three times per week down to twice, then once per week over over the course of that time period. Now, I'm at a point we haven't been intimate in almost 2 weeks. I've read most of the side bar books, RM, NMMNG, WISNIFG, The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck, MMSLP, and recently picked up the Shogun Method for Married Men.

I've been initiating sex almost every day the last week and have been shut down. Didn't act butthurt and held frame. Last night did it again and got shut down. She gave me a speech about how she wasn't feeling it and expressed her feelings to me. She also said she felt bad about not feeling recently attracted to me and didn't want the marriage to fail. I calmly said ok, then I told her sex is very important to me and is an essential component to a healthy marriage. I told her that if our sex life continues to downward spirt, the marriage will fail. Then I STFU and went to sleep. This morning we woke up and she was cold and disengaging, so I brushed it off with an IDGAF attitude, and she went to get breakfast for our blended family children. I'm headed the gym and writing this post.

Looking for advice and comments and thoughts on my situation.

Post Information
Title Rebuilding attraction with wife
Author dll142
Upvotes 17
Comments 66
Date 06 January 2019 02:13 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Original Link
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Red Pill terms found in post:
butthurtMAPWISNIFGframeliftthe red pillNMMNG

[–]justpickanyusernameRed Beret25 points26 points  (1 child) | Copy

I always love the posters that say “I said this. Then, I said that. After which, I explained such and such. Finally, I STFU.”

Ummm... that’s not STFU.

Go do something else for a while. Gaming your wife is important, but too many dudes start circling their wives and it just turns them off. Go off and do your cool hobby. Stay flirty, but have an alternative other than her for a while.

[–]Thisismyusername1100[🍰] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

You also dig yourself into a hole here from her perspective, in that you go halfway to vomitville and then decide to shut the fuck up and she's like "wait what the fuck are you even doing".

I'm guilty of this too.

[–]cholomiteMod / BP Downvote Magnet20 points21 points  (7 children) | Copy

What the fuck did I tell you in the last thread you made? Pretty sure I told you to stop trying to communicate your feelings with your wife, and to just STFU. You fucked up man.

I talked about my wife's feelings and demonstrated some serious low value, and then I STFU.

You're either gonna take the advice we give you or you're going to keep fucking up and we're all gonna get pissed and kick you out.

I told her sex is very important to me


Do you know how dry a vagina gets when a man has to whine and complain about his lack of sex sex? Well, you're finding out now aren't you? Every time you talk about shit like this with her, you're holding up a giant flashing neon sign that says "BETA FAGGOT" in big letters over your head, while telling her you deserve to he treated like a hot sexy alpha.

[–]dll142[S] 2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy

Yes, sir I did fuck up. I will be a man and STFU.

[–]cholomiteMod / BP Downvote Magnet8 points9 points  (5 children) | Copy

Read up on dread game because that is what you're lacking the most, and any dread you may have built up gets washed away the second you start "communicating" about your needs and sex and all that shit.

Women want men who are studs, talking about your lack of sex isn't studly. Fake it until you make it if you have to, but you're stepping on your own feet with all this neediness and discussions.

[–]gettingmymojobackRed Beret6 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy

Exactly this. Women want studs that just “get it” and give them tingles.

Not only is OP missing any dread game, I’ve never seen him mention anything about fun and game.

It’s been repeated endlessly on here that MRP is RP on hard mode. You need to have the total package. One facet is not enough.

OP seems to only have lifting down.

And OP, seriously STFU and stop vomiting your feels to your wife. Before you open your mouth run it through the filter of “is this making her pussy wetter”?

[–]dll142[S] 3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy

Ok, thanks. I'll frame it that way. Rereading NMMNG and it says that I should have her read it with me.... I take it from the advice I'm getting here that is a BAD idea. So I'll just STFU

[–]MrChad_ThundercockBig Red Machine9 points10 points  (2 children) | Copy

Very bad idea. Don’t talk about fight club. Great book other than that advice .. as well as the sex moratorium advice which is also gay.

[–]drty_prRed Beret5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

That should be bracketed beside the book in the side bar.

(Don't fuckin actually talk about this shit with your wife!)

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

I tried to make that as bold as possible in my guide. If folks still do that, it's on them.

[–]ChokingDownRPRed Beret15 points16 points  (7 children) | Copy

This morning we woke up and she was cold and disengaging, so I brushed it off with an IDGAF attitude, and she went to get breakfast for our blended family children.

Reset every day. Even if she's stonewalling you, have fun, offer to include her - either she comes along or she doesn't, but enjoy your life. Don't let her pull you into a multi day standoff, you'll be butthurt about no sex and that's really unattractive. Just because you're changing doesn't mean her perception of you has changed - she still sees you as butthurt about being rejected for sex.

Also, nice lifts, keep it up.

[–]dll142[S] 3 points4 points  (6 children) | Copy

Thanks on the lifting compliment. I starting running as well to help shed more body fat.

Thanks for the advice. I'll push forward on a new day.

[–]shneakypete11 points12 points  (5 children) | Copy

That's the answer.

I've been where you've been. You're seeking validation from your wife. You're basically putting a gun to her head and telling her she needs to fuck you or else. That's not gonna make her want to fuck you.

You're in a death spiral and you need to pull out.

Here's what I learned when I fucked up my relationship the way you fucked up yours: 1. I broke up with an LTR and the last thing I missed about her was the sex. Enjoy all the other things you have. It sounds corny as fuck but seriously, enjoy having a home with a family, enjoy meals, enjoy activities. 2. Seek validation only from within. Go lift. Go run. Go bike. Go buy a motorcycle and race it. Go learn mma. Do something for yourself that gets you excited. 3. Let her seduces you. You probably look pretty good. Put yourself in a position where her friends check you out. Take her to a restaurant where you know the owner. Make her think "god damn this man is legit."

Seriously man. You're in a death spiral. Get your shit together. When the marriage ends you're not going to be happy about it, you're going to hate yourself because you could have fixed it and when you go back out into the dating world you're gonna be the dude with two marriages under his belt.

[–]dll142[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

You're right. I want to fix me. I think she will come around ONLY if I stop and get my shit together, otherwise, she will most likely eventually leave. There are two take aways I can see.

  1. I am aware of the problem and am working to correct.

  2. I am not super far gone and have not been in this mode more than a couple months.

You are correct. She wants nothing to do with me today. I had been holding frame a short period of time (all last week), and she starred to warm back up to me slowly... but I slipped last night as indicated in the original post by opening my mouth.

I was tempted to go and try to talk with her today, but I actually held frame and STFU. I didn't bother or chase her today. Framing it as weathering the storm. I will not break.

[–]friendandadvisor5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

I was tempted to go and try to talk with her today, but I actually held frame and STFU

Not to jump on you too severely for not STFU, as others have done that, but, I can give you an insight which may be helpful.

When you say "This, this, that, that" she is hearing "I'm a fucking pussy beta, and if you fuck me, the laugh is on you, because you could do much, much better. Oh, please divorce rape me!" You think that this is a joke. It is not. You need to understand, that she doesn't give a mother fucking fuck about your feelings. One central tenet of RP is that "She cannot love you in the way you want to be loved." CANNOT. Burn this word into your brain, for it is the operative word in MF relationships. CANNOT.

CANNOT. You think that if you open your heart, she will see the purity of your love, and be moved. That is where you are fooled. If she could see into the very bottom of your soul, and your love for her, even if she were the best woman on the planet, she CANNOT love you the way that you want. With this in mind, it should be helpful in your keeping your lip zipped about your feelings and what you want. You may as well read "The 1927 Illinois Crime Survey" to her; it will get you further.

[–]CaliEd2561 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Rollo doesn’t lie. Upvote.

[–]kiraatbashiIntegrated Redpill5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

You're seeking validation from your wife. You're basically putting a gun to her head and telling her she needs to fuck you or else. That's not gonna make her want to fuck you.

You're in a death spiral and you need to pull out.

This. You're treating your wife as if she's a puzzle to solve in order to get your sexual reward. Your problem is your need for sex is out of proportion to what you actually need. If you're trying to use your wife (or any woman) to get sex so you can feel satisfied and good about yourself, you're destroying your relationships through manipulation. She's a woman, not a puzzle. Stop being so narcissistic and try to see the world from her point of view for a change. Then maybe she'll like you more and open up. You actually have to care about her experience too. If you don't care about understanding her experience and working to improve it along with your own, then the relationship truly is in a death spiral.

[–]friendandadvisor0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

when you go back out into the dating world you're gonna be the dude with two marriages under his belt.

From what I've seen, two 'failed marriages' is just about the same as ONE failed marriage. Could be wrong, tho, but, it's the way I interpret interactions. I'm not married, so, that may influence my judgment on the matter.

[–]hack3geRed Beret20 points21 points  (4 children) | Copy

Can you please provide me a link to where in the sidebar it said you should talk about sex with your wife? Definitely want to try that to get my wife more dripping wet - pulling her hair and talking dirty to her only made her mildly wet the sheets last night. Was it in SGM?

Your wife married you as beta bux to raise her children after she went on her cock riding spree after her divorce. Luckily for you your lifts and stats seem solid so you have a little head start - gonna be all about frame and mission. Also realize her moods are like the weather - they change on a moments notice and are unpredictable so just grab a jacket and pay it no mind.

You aren’t special so get to fucking work.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy

Its been a While since I read it but in MAP in one of the VERY END stages it says to make a blunt statement about what you want. I believe he just hit it to early. It's meant as the beginning of the end ultimatum.

But yeah rarely does a heart to heart lead to smashing parts.

[–]RedPill-BlackLotusRed Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Its been a While since I read it but in MAP in one of the VERY END stages it says to make a blunt statement about what you want.

I told my wife what I want just like that. I am batting 1000 on initiations though. I cant remember the last time she shot me down.

"I'm sick of having to tell you what to do, it's like fuckig a robot. Pay attention" . It turned her on a bit.

Say whatever you want if you have the frame. This guy doesn't.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

You told her what you wanted, from a position of strength. You weren't venting your feelings HUGE difference.

[–]dll142[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks man! Can't say what you just wrote doesn't have truth to it. I'm working on expanding my life outside of my wife and reconnecting with my male friends.

I'll get tighter on STFU and carry on. If she comes, great, if not, I'll move forward.

Beta poison takes time, strong will, amd practice to shake. I'll continue making my blood more red.

[–]MrChad_ThundercockBig Red Machine7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

“we woke up and she was cold and disengaging”

Because she doesn’t understand why she isn’t attracted to you. She might want it to work but she’s confused because she doesn’t get tingles tm from you.

The more you talk like a little bitch about how sex is important to you, the farther away it will get. Way too early to make blunt statements.

[–]dll142[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Ok thanks for the advice. Making the course correction.

[–]tspitsatgp7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thank you for fucking up so I didn’t have to make the same stupid mistake today. New day brother.

[–]MrChad_ThundercockBig Red Machine5 points6 points  (12 children) | Copy

“Last night did it again and got shut down. She gave me a speech about how ...”

Betas get speeches, chores, and endless hoops to jump through and then get shamed for wanting sex.

Alphas don’t.

Kill that beta faggot.

[–]dll142[S] 5 points6 points  (11 children) | Copy

That is my main goal. Kill the beta faggot. I got poisoned by being in therapy for the last few years. That stuff is blue pill shit. I was told to "express" my feelings. My girl doesn't want to hear that. She is disgusted with me at the moment and rightfully so. This is my bed and it's my job to fix me.

[–]MrChad_ThundercockBig Red Machine9 points10 points  (2 children) | Copy

I hear ya. I was there too. Women do not want to hear that shit. They can’t carry that burden, they need a strong alpha leader.

For better or worse, sick or poor - it’s all bullshit. My red pill awakening was realizing/observing that they don’t love us the way we love them or the way momma loves us.

Suffer in solitude or with your bros. Strong, decisive, cocky, and the Prize.. Always.

[–]dll142[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Yes, very correct. My girl has told me recently that she has felt disgusted with me as of late, and that she "doesn't know what she feels now..." From what Inhave learned from the red pill is that women have the feelz in the moment and every moment. She can feel this way today, tomorrow, or the next day, then something makes her flip the other way. I'm just starting to accept that as the truth and not take it personally or seriously.

STFU is my new motto and work on alpha. Let shit fall into place (she comes around and stays or she takes off). I'll be good either way.

[–]luckie_duckie0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Where is she in her cycle? That plays a big part for me in how I respond. If she is PMS right now, there is no way any sort of response is going to be beneficial to you. All you can do is latch onto one of the feels that work to your benefit and amplify it to distract from the noise.

[–]friendandadvisor1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy

I hope you got the fuck out of therapy. Did you?

[–]dll142[S] 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy

Not completely out, but dialed back on the frequency. I hired a reputable coach from the redpill community and am working through that transition.

[–]friendandadvisor3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy

And he didn't warn you to STFU?

ETA: Let me revise my post. If you are in marriage/relationship therapy, I'd say GTFO of it. BUT, if you are in any other kind of therapy, and/or it is court ordered, allow me to say 'don't listen to me'.

[–]Frosteecat0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

Any advice on this? I agreed to MC pre RP and it is a joke, mainly because my spouse cannot or will not share any serious emotion yet is happy to sit and expect me to.

Even the counselor seems exasperated with her. I have begun to STFU more and more in these sessions and it isn’t being held against me apparently, as the counselor has seen evidence of me being extremely honest and articulate and the wife totally clenched.

Of course rational thought has nothing to do with this at all—merely looking for advice to pull the Irish Goodby somehow on this fiasco.

[–]friendandadvisor4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy

You may want to advise your wife that if she isn't going to participate and you aren't getting any benefit from it, you are going to stop going. Then, stop. Actually, stop anyway. All it is is a meeting to get you to let down your guard and get you to spilling your guts again.

Your wife is shitting on you, and I'm suspecting that you are having to pay cash money for this counseling stuff. There's no reason to continue going, and you can spend the money on yourself in working on the sidebar stuff. Plus, you may need it for an exit plan, or, if nothing else, some goodies to tighten up your fashion/appearance!

Best wishes.

[–]Frosteecat0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Not sure which one of us you’re talking to there @karma etc but I agree completely that if mine isn’t going to offer the same level of exposure there’s no fucking way I will.

I honestly think it was the classic “I’ll feel better when I leave him” move r.e. counseling, but the tables have turned a bit since then. Due to some health issues on her part and my own regained Captaincy, lifting, NGAF etc I don’t want to give her any self advocacy or bullshit rationalizations to swing her negative focus back on to me if I say “fuck this shit”. I also don’t want to get into ANY “emotional talk” with her as I’ve effectively STFU on that front in a major way.

I think I’m better off convincing her of “all the progress we’ve made” which has nothing to do with MC and everything to do with me pulling my head out of my ass. I need to be tactical and spin this shit as “our win” or else I’ll look like an early Rambo quitter.

I may fuck it all up but I’m sure either she’s leaving or staying regardless of MC so I can afford to vet it for a couple more sessions. Feels like I’m playing with a ticking time bomb though I’ll admit.

[–]friendandadvisor1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Yeah, sorry about that karma biz!

One thing I'd like to recommend against is not to put the burden of the relationship upon yourself. Don't worry about 'looking like (or being) a Rambo quitter." Just make sure you do what's the best for you every day, irrespective of her or her health-if you got sick, she'd kick your ass out the door fast enough to give you another malady; if she wants to go along, lucky her. If not, let her go fuck herself and the toothless biker that she's destined for!

Good luck.

[–]Frosteecat1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

LOL. Oh, I get it. I'm just playing this string out to see where it goes. The stay plan is the same as the go plan. We went from End Game to Game On so we shall see. This is a learning experience. I'm old, wise and bitter and still have a couple kids at home for a minute. After they're gone, all bets are truly off. In the meantime, I hone my edge and get this Father Figure in pantie dropping form.

[–]Tiway223 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy

Stop talking, threatening, and complaining. You can’t negotiate desire.

What’s your bodyfat? How many female friends or social circles are you in? If you wanted to, could you get laid the same day if you left her?

[–]dll142[S] 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy

I need to lower my body fat. It's not where it needs to be. I can see bulk in my muscles but I need more definition.

I want to spend more time in my social circles. I own a small business with 40 employees, so I'm pretty busy. Two of my close male friends are also business owners too, so we only get to see each other about once a month.

Yes, I could get laid tomorrow. I can think of at least two womenl I could call but they would just be to fuck but not relationship material. If I executed on that plan, I think it would just bring me more problems. I admit, I'm a "nice guy". I am attacking that problem first.

[–]MrChad_ThundercockBig Red Machine1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

“ I own a small business with 40 employees, so I'm pretty busy”

You should have built-in Dread then... owner of a company, in shape, busy, active, etc. She needs to get a sniff of the women you’re around all day..

Start acting like the Prize.. I’d bet she cum around pretty quickly.

[–]dll142[S] 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

Yes, but I also need to get rid of my self sabotaging "nice guy" bullshit. I'm dragging it out back and shooting it. Lots of hard work but will be worth it

[–]MrChad_ThundercockBig Red Machine3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Yep. Kill that beta faggot. Be your own mental point of origin. Have you even learned how to Game yet?

You ARE the Prize, start acting like it.

[–]SuperCrazy072 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

Serious question...

Why did you choose an older woman with kid(s) for your second wife?

We are the same height, you’re slightly younger, and your lifts are definitely better.

You seem to be above average financially (as I am too).

I don’t get it. I realize that fucking vapid 22 y/o’s might get boring, but marry an older chick with kids? Did you have no better options?

[–]dll142[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

She is a really great lady. I fucked this up with my victim pukes.

I actually did have tons of options when I was dating between my marriages. Met a of fun and great girls, but I really had trouble relating to women that we not close to my age. All the women I dated at the time and had the most fun with were within 2 or 3 years of my age.

[–]CaliEd2562 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Agreed. I’m 38, tried dating mid 20s, they were super fun for about a month. Then it was like talking to one of my kids after that.

[–]suprathepeg2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Lookup dread levels. Start there.

[–]dll142[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Ok, thanks.

[–]0io-Tsundere2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I would recommend you go for a few months without discussing any feelings with her at all. Just be friendly and cheerful and very busy outside the house. Might try to get your body-fat percentage down too. Could you get pretty shredded if you cut to 200 pounds? Initiating a lot is not a bad idea, but don't talk about sex or feelings. If you're already low body-fat maybe just buy new clothes and go out 4 or 5 nights a week doing your own thing with your phone off. You could realistically line up 5 or 10 back up girls for you to date if your wife never comes around in the next 90 days.

[–]DeplorableRay1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

How are you so bad at dread with those lift numbers? You may need to provoke some competition anxiety. What dread level are you on?

[–]dll142[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

My best answer is I'm a self sabotaging "nice guy." I am at dread level 1 technically. I have strength and mass, but I need to get my body fat content down. I need to lose about 10 lbs of fat so I show more definition. Also working on the "nice guy" thing

[–]DeplorableRay3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

Those ten pounds aren't your problem at those numbers. You must be actively unattractive on purpose. I'm tempted to call bullshit on your numbers, or your weight, but I don't care that much tbh.

[–]dll142[S] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

My recent unattractiveness is ALL behavior based. My lifting numbers are real. I've always been naturally bulky and strong. They are also maximums. I don't work out at those levels on sets of course. I probably am a little heavier right now than 225. That's what I weighed at my last doctor visit a few months back.

[–]DeplorableRay1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I don’t know anyone who has 1RM’s at those levels and doesn’t know exactly how much they weigh all the time. Those are next level fitness numbers that don’t exist without excellent nutrition and weight management. Now, I’m definitely calling bullshit on those numbers. You don’t get there not paying attention to your weight.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You don’t talk about body fat percentage.

“Hot passionate sex multiple times a week.... to you puking our an ultimatum...”

She wakes up cold, distant and now you need to know .... what do now ?.

How about shut the fuck up about feelz, sexual desire and just flat out own your shit as a busy, attractive man that can fuck any winan he chooses to game ?

You second married guys are repeat and rinse. What the fuck up

[–]weakandsensitive3 points4 points  (9 children) | Copy

You're pretty worthless.

Every two days you make a shit post, and then delete it. Why?

[–]dll142[S] 3 points4 points  (8 children) | Copy

I'm working through a personal crisis and major set back. This is my last shit post.

[–]rocknrollchuck8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

Leave it up as a reminder to yourself that you can look back on. A cringey reference point that will remind you to avoid talking about this with her.

[–]weakandsensitive1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

So why delete all the crap you post?

[–]friendandadvisor1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

Hey, man, post all you want. Just because somebody shits on you, doesn't mean you don't still need help/feedback. Sure, you're a fuckup-join the club.

[–]rocknrollchuck3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy

It's not the posting that's the problem. The majority of us have been there, go look at my first post. It's deleting it because you're ashamed.

If you post, leave it up no matter how bad it is and no matter how many guys tear you a new one. It's an important point of reference to look back on.

[–]dll142[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Yeah, I'll admit, I feel shame and embarrassment. Thanks for the support! One thing I value in my core and always have, is personal growth.

[–]rocknrollchuck2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Good. Leave it up then. I promise that you will read this post and the comments in a few years and laugh.

[–]coachdad80 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

So its a lack of confidence that's your problem. Go play some sports, go hunting, go on a hike with some men. Get away from women and get out of your brain. Go fishing or shoot some guns. How much time have you spent with your guy friends doing active stuff not just drinking beer? This isnt the solution to all your problems but its an action you can take immediately that will help.

[–]RedPillCoach0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I told her sex is very important to me and is an essential component to a healthy marriage. I told her that if our sex life continues to downward spirt, the marriage will fail. Then I STFU and went to sleep.

This is not a bad move but almost impossible to pull of without being butthurt unless you are able to leave to spend the night at your GF's house. Generally not ideal to talk about sex or beg for sex but I see this as setting a boundary. Are you going to enforce it?

we woke up and she was cold and disengaging

Awwww! You made the little darling feel bad by pressuring her to bang you. Now she wants to stomp her feet, plug her ears and yell LALALALLALALALALALALALALA!

When you think about it like that it is kind of adorable.

IDGAF attitude

The problem is she sees that you return her morning shit test with a butthurt attitude, not an IDGAF attitude. After all, you really do care, right?

Better to remain upbeat and tease her about her bad attitude.

What would you do if your 10 y/o daughter woke up complaining, bitching and whining? You would IDGAF about the behavior but continue to love the person. Do that.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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