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[FR] Dread and low self esteem. (and damn.. women are good with words)

by MRPN00b | December 14, 2018 | askMRP

17 upvotes

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You can search my limited post history, but the basics are.. married over 20 years, 6'5 215 abs, clothes and hair on point, finances good. BP 255, Squat 330, OHP 165 (shoulder injury years ago, so I take it a little carefully with that)

Been on the RP bandwagon since July '16. Just about at the "one month per year of marriage" point.

Overall, things have improved. I could talk about how my relationship and sex life have improved, but I'm more focused on me. Confidence is up, killing it at work, dressing better (have to stay on top of this, style and season changes) being a much better dad. OYS. Planning, cleaning, fixing.. I drop the ball from time to time, 9/10 on this.

On with the field report. I want to create my slut as part of this process. Gone through all of the sidebar reading twice, working my way through again. Amazing how much you pick up/internalize each time. At any rate, I've been slowly ramping up the sexual menu. You can ready my post history on BJ's, still stuck on that. Not sure it will ever change.

One of the concerns I've had about dread, is that my wife (although very attractive) has low self esteem. It seems that dread needs to be applied a bit more carefully in these instances. I'm on DL 5. She has NOT acted predictably. Sex has improved a little, but mainly just due to me taking what I want and not asking. I can't say that the dread has anything to do with it or not. But, I've been wanting to try new things, one of my goals this year was to use a vibrator with her. I know this may not seem like a bid deal to any one of you, but we've NEVER done that. She would never bring it up. But all women like vibrators right? If used correctly, I thought it would be a lot of fun for her, and a turn on for me to see her get all worked up. I told her I had a surprise for her last night. A lot of kino during the day. She was primed, and right in Ovulation week (thanks Clue) so I thought it was teed up.

One other factor that lead me to try this, is that she has been really feeling the dread hard this week. We were out together last week and an early 30's hottie left a note on our car at the store. We drove separately, and as we walked back out to the car, we both saw a woman place something under the wiper of my car. My wife runs over and grabs it, it was a handwritten note, basically saying "Tall jacked guy in the blue shirt, call me.. " more or less. Wife was pissed. Texted the number and told her that I was married etc, etc. I laughed it off and said "welcome to my life when I go to the store" smacked her on the ass and forgot about it.

All week it's been constant comfort tests, this one dread instance seems to have tipped the power dynamic. She saw for the first time that I have options, and is scared. So, in my brain I thought "ok, strike while the iron is hot" Sex every day since then, very active participation. In the back of my mind I kept thinking "ok, if she's ever going to start BJ's again, this is when it will happen" Of course.. that didn't happen (rolls eyes) but nonetheless is was great.

So back to last night, she wears some lingerie (one of my favorites) we just start getting warmed up and I grab the vibe out of the drawer and say "remember your surprise?" it's dark so she can't see it "what are you doing? What is that?" me: "buzzzzz" her, backing away "no, no..I don't want that, that's gross. You are enough" I just said "Ok, your loss I guess" and tossed it aside.

Totally killed the mood, we had sex but she wasn't into it. This morning the hamster had been running all night.

She wanted to talk, big speech about how sex is a beautiful thing between two people that love each other, and that vibrators are for lonely desperate women and that her and her friends all make fun of women that have to use them, and she wants no part of them.

I just let her finish and said "Just trying to spice things up babe, but no problem, I'll toss it"

We kind of go back and forth for a minute, I'm trying find a way to disengage. Then she hits me with " I can't believe you would use my low self esteem to your advantage"

Damn. She's good. (that's exactly what I was doing)

This went on for a few minutes (and I know I shouldn't have engaged, but damn I love to argue sometimes, working on killing this) the basic jist of it is, she knows I'm bored with our sex life, I've told her as much in the past, and while it's improving, I have tried to show her that I'm not happy with the same 2-3 things for the rest of our life and lead her in this regard, with some successes, and of course like this one.. failures. Obviously the dread isn't enough, so I'm trying to reconcile this with the "levels of dread".

During this discussion she brought up some points which on the face of it sounds like a failed comfort test. After pouring out her heart to me after this note, she told me she loves me, wants to be with me forever, and is afraid I'm going to leave. I just kissed her on the head and said "I'm here because I want to be" She brought that up this morning. You didn't tell me you loved me! You didn't say you are never going to leave, etc etc. You just said "I'm here because I want to be, that's not the same thing"

So on one hand I'm trying to provide comfort when needed, but on the other hand, I'm trying not to undo the hard earned dread.

So, partial field report on dread and low self esteem, and also would like a critique of where I went wrong here and how to handle dread etc, moving forward.

Thanks gents.


Post Information
Title [FR] Dread and low self esteem. (and damn.. women are good with words)
Author MRPN00b
Upvotes 17
Comments 31
Date 14 December 2018 06:38 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/203740
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/a67j85/fr_dread_and_low_self_esteem_and_damn_women_are/
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Comments

[–]InChargeManRed Beret19 points20 points  (1 child) | Copy

One thing is I think you worry a bit too much about what she "says". Remember, she doesn't want change, change is scary, that is going against the status quo. One way you are sabotaging yourself is by MAKING things a big deal and acting as if her opinion about any subject is the only opinion that matters. For various reasons sex has been put onto this pedestal like it is some magical spiritual experience, and if the woman isn't 1000% into every thing you do then you need to lower the bar to the lowest common denominator.

Men don't love taking out the trash, but you do it, right? If you didn't "enjoy" licking her, but she did, you would still do it, right? Unless she is a closet lesbian or has a TMJ disorder, it shouldn't be a big deal to let your cock slosh around in her mouth for a while then you pull out to finish. Really shouldn't be a big deal. BUT, when YOU start acting like something important is about to happen, dimming the lights, turning on Barry Manilow, tell her all week that something "special" is about to happen, then what have you done? You have conditioned her to believe that whatever it is you have planned is a big deal and she needs to be afraid of it lest there is a scary change.

I used to make this mistake, I know what I'm talking about. Next time you are having energetic sex simply tell her how turned on she has you, that you are "done with holding back", fuck her hard and fast, then order her to her knees and tell her what to do. If she says "I don't want to", say "I'm not asking". Of course, I'm in no way suggesting that you force yourself on her, but make it clear that you aren't asking for her opinion on the matter, you are telling her one of your needs, period. If she won't, then stop right there and walk away. Mind you, there will be a conversation later, she will try to guilt you, beat you into submission. Do not engage. State it simply, "I have gone too long not fully enjoying my sexuality, it ends now." Broken record. She will try to push you into a corner where you are giving an ultimatum to her, so she can later talk about how shallow you are, etc. Fog and don't engage. She might say: "Oh, so you would give up our marriage for a BJ?" "I like being married to you. I also need frequent quality sex." "So, you want a divorce?" "I like being married to you. I also need frequent quality sex." etc.

The key is not to talk too much, keep frame. She already knows you are a man of options, show her that you are also a man who isn't afraid to take what he wants.

These days my wife actively tells me how much she likes being my slut. I do anything and everything I want with her, and she is way more open with her desires as well, and I'm all to happy to oblige, even if it isn't "my thing". It is how a relationship should be.

[–]jerrymcguiver0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

My wife openly admitted tonight that i can take what i want with her. Last night i showed her the fb profile of this chick i work with who has been eye fucking and complimenting me all the time.(wife sahm). The wife swears it's due to talking with guys she knows on the ps4(drunk betas) and they told her what they wished their wives would let them do. I just started calling the wife my slut last week. She also mentioned that i work a lot(ie taking out trash) and should get what I want. Seems like im on the right track. Wife told me no sex last week on shark week and i got a towel out and broke that barrier down after 8 years since first kid. She was saying oh it's gross and i cavemaned it and she ended up cumming anyway. Funny how she said eww no gross but loved it. Just like op wife will be with the vibe.

[–]ozfish8310 points11 points  (2 children) | Copy

Time to text the note girl

[–]WesternhagenWinner7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

Bet she loves to give BJs...

[–]ozfish838 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

Haha a girl that leaves notes that like you know is down to fuck and suck like an animal

[–]BostonBrakeJob8 points9 points  (7 children) | Copy

Too much talking. Way too much.

edit: I have a little more time to expand.

Slut training is like anything else really, the slower the changes, the more organic it feelz to her. The more organic it feelz, the more likely she is to relax, enjoy, and want more. Which leads to...

Leave her wanting more. If your end goal is to use a vibe on her, knowing she has a thing about it, then start with something similar. Hum on her clit while you're down on her. Buy one of those cock rings with the vibe built in. Finger vibes. There's an endless list of vibrating shit you can buy. Start small and work your way up. And shut the fuck up about the vibrator along the way.

Don't talk about it, ask her what she thinks, send a pic of the order confirmation...do not consult her in any way about the damn thing, is what I'm sayin. Get what looks fun to you. Figure out how you wanna work it in. Order it. Use it. Simple as that.

[–]MRPN00b[S] 4 points5 points  (6 children) | Copy

Right. Except, I've never been down on her. Tried on multiple occasions. It's on the "do not enter" list (so far) Cock ring would be looked at as a "vibe".

I get what you are saying, it's been a process. I feel successful just getting a BJ twice a year and working in a couple of new positions.

Also, to your point, I didn't make a big announcement about it. But kino'ing her through out the day, and getting her ready. But, nope.. shot down.

Her radar was on ultra high frequency alert this morning for any sign of butthurt. I was extra happy and cheerful, so at least I passed that test.

But I will agree, to much talking on this one. It was conversation in a place that I couldn't leave or walk away. So my engagement was minimal, but still too much.

Fuck.

[–]DJiamuzak5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Our wives sound very similar. My wife will not talk about sex, at all. BJs, anal, and vibes were no fly zones too. In addition to what others are saying, here’s some things that worked for me. BJs: playfully flop dick on her face when she’s lying down...”oops” or “I got you a meat popsicle for you”, or “suck it”. Anal and vibes: I just grab lube or vibe. No talking. She may say, “You’re not going in my ass are you?” or “You’re not using THAT (meaning vibe) are you?” Radio silence. This is a work in progress mainly from my own awkwardness / nervous excitement. The most success I’ve had is when I’m confidently driven and take what I want. I get out of my thoughts and let passion take over...if that makes sense?

[–]BostonBrakeJob5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's not all bad, man. At least you did something, that's more than most who come in with questions can muster.

Take an honest look in the mirror. Desensitize, then escalate. IME (I tried. Failed. Tried & failed 2 more times. Then finally started making some progess), the juice was worth the squeeze. YMMV.

[–]creating_my_life0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

So go get another girl. Maybe this one isn't the right match for you.

[–]MRPN00b[S] 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

Easy to say brother. And yes, you have to be ready to burn down the house. And someday it may come to that. But everything else is 100%. A lot of other factors at play. All things considered, I'd rather try to improve this one. But, it may come to that.

[–]creating_my_life5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

You wife doesn't need to do anything different because there's no risk to her stability and life. She knows this.

sometimes you just need to walk away. why are you wasting your time with a woman who isn't fulfilling your needs? You seem to have hotties who want to ride you. Life is short.

But everything else is 100%.

Other than that, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?

[–]MRPN00b[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Touche'

However, sex isn't everything. Is the improvement in this area important to me? Yes. Does it cause deep seated anger and resentment when I don't get what I want? It did for years. I've buried that part of it.

But I agree with your statement. It may come to that..

[–]simbarlionRed Beret8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

Its a misconception that dread = more sex / variety.

Dread is really felt as fear. Fight or flight.

Theoretically, Fight (for you) =~ more sex.

Not 100% sure what is going on in flight mode. Maybe withhold sex and see if he still loves me. Maybe up the comfort tests.

[–]RedPillCoach0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

If you are inducing active 'fear' then the Dread is to high. Rollo calls it "The Gift of Anxiety." She should be on her toes and alert, not rocking back and forth, or crying.

Anxiety //=// Fear

[–]screechhaterRed Beret7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

Sex is a beautiful thing ........ you listened and fell right into her frame.

Apparently you missed a book in the sidebar.

In the sexy lingerie, I would have pulled the bottom off with my teeth and had her coming in my mouth, while my feet were firmly planted by her head..... giving her opportunity to place her mouth where her fantasies desired as she was in a euphoric state, all the while giving her compliments on her skills

This is all about frame, leadership and you masculine attractiveness... hence the lingerie. Yes, I’m definitely sure dread is working, but you must take cues from her as to what she really wants.

Read your post, the answer is in there .

Quit telling us about her low self esteem and start gaming her. God dam it. Make her feel special, make her laugh. But above all else be a masculine man she wants to take care of.

[–]creating_my_life5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

too much dread. not enough comfort. there's a balance.

[–]weakandsensitive12 points13 points  (1 child) | Copy

Dance monkey dance.

You can tell by the number of "She" statements.

Lead, follow, or get out of the way. And you can't be leading if you're constantly looking backwards.

[–]Frosteecat2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

I think she is definitely the Oldest Teenager in the House, vs the FO.

I'm in the same boat, albeit with more sexual variety--although she may as well be my sex robot--I can plug in most of the programs and get what I want off the menu, but I've accepted she will never be aggressive, verbal, inventive, etc.

AWALT...except for the ones that weren't, before her, so that was a major fuck up of mine. But I'm a damn loyalist...for now.

The inkling of an idea about the classic French mistress situation is starting to tickle MY hindbrain. Fortunately I'm too fat, old and bald right now to pull it. But the goal, of course, is to be able to with ease after my month per marriage formula hits optimums.

Self esteem is one of the few things in life that only we can fix ourselves, with no help or comfort being able to do the job for us.

If you want a better, more enthusiastic and active partner, you're going to have to steer her to the activities, therapies,...."whatevers"....that will "fix" that for her. But she has to do all the WORK and believe it is done herself.

Then, of course, the irony is you'll have a real partner/FO with the ladyballs to pull her own tail as well.

Either that or just keep giving comfort tests and getting an incomplete package in return. Or French mistress.

It boils down to what you're willing to live with. I don't see you being very articulate about what you want in the bedroom. That's a hurdle I overcame--I don't STFU about what I REALLY want in any arena in life since RP.

I say it straight up, no matter the audience, without malice or judgement. "I want X and here is why if you need to know."

Simple as that. Don't go STFU. Articulate and then STFU to get a REAL answer. Maybe somebody forced her to give a BJ. Who knows? There has to be a valid reason....and it sounds like you haven't gotten it yet.

[–]RedPillCoach1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

she will never be aggressive, verbal, inventive

Let me take a wild guess she is not aggressive, verbal or inventive in any aspect of her life.

[–]Frosteecat1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Bingo. Poor vetting on my part. She is a Vulcan and I had a taste of the green chick before her. But fortunately I entertain the shit out of myself most of the time and feast on IOI's due to extreme verbal game skills. I just look at this as my long term project now. We'll see what I can turn this in to. I married late and had a lot of fun before (and really, during).

Those of us who let their shit slip but once had it good at least have a clear path to something real. I feel really sorry for these poor fuckers who are still trying to crack the code...at all.

[–]hack3geRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

You can ready my post history on BJ's, still stuck on that. Not sure it will ever change.

It doesn't change because you let it stay the same. My wife gave me the same shit you did and you just push through that shit like some little fucking boy on the playground determined to get what you want. I started by having her just lick it and use her lips and then I wanted to feel her lips going up and down my cock. If you have her turned on you can also tease her and tell her you will stop doing whatever she was enjoying if she doesn't put it in her mouth (obviously be playful with this and not a complete asshole). Last night we got home from a party and I escalated and she queued the I'm tired, sad, girly voice not tonight so I was like okay kissed her on the forehead and went to bed. I'm in the shower this morning and look down and she just hopped in the shower and next thing I know she finishes me off - first time since unplugging that it wasn't just foreplay - this from the woman who said oral was disgusting and something she would never do again 2 months ago. YMMV but based on what I'm reading I think you could make it happen and its your own mental block that's doing it and she can sense it - maybe madonna/whore complex but you have to own that you want it and lead her to being your slut without judgement.

My wife also has low self-esteem so I know some of the struggles as she struggles with any type of active dread and even passive dread gets to be too much and she shuts down so then I provide a little encouragement but not comfort. Also it took forever for me to get her to fuck with the lights on, outside the bedroom, etc. basically anything where she felt vulnerable but over time I pushed and pushed and she came around. It also seems like maybe some of what you hit was shit tests not comfort tests and she was checking to see if you were the man who deserved to fuck her with a vibrator. The line of taking advantage of her is a shit test and was ripe for twisting about taking advantage of her sexy ass. I also get a fuck ton of shit tests during and after I push my wife's boundaries so once you start be prepared as they get pretty nasty and she will shame you and swear you are disgusting but its all just mouth noise really. The only other piece of advice I'd have is to try something and let it simmer if it doesn't go as planned. I wanted to fuck my wife outside the bedroom (according to her the horror and shame) and I pushed it a bunch but she wasn't giving in so I put it back into the toolbox and moved on but low and behold like a month later while she was ovulating shes taking her pants off on the couch. Who knows you keep the vibrator around and maybe some night she will ask for it or pull it out herself.

[–]RedPill-BlackLotusRed Beret3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

God damit man, I was rooting for that vibrator. I love your FR.

6'5 wholey shit you would be the lebron james of bumble. Do you have the sausage to match that? Maby that shit just hurts her jaw for real.

[–]wkndatbernardus4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

LeBron James as in a whiney bitch?

[–]SrsWHATISWRONGWITHU4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Gayest comment I've read all week

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Been on the RP bandwagon since July '16. Just about at the "one month per year of marriage" point.

I find no reason to read past this line. It tells me everything I need to know

[–]MRPN00b[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Oh yeah? What's that?

[–]Kpwn880 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Dude, this is tradcon 101 shit. A very basic frame grab using male sexuality as a shaming tactic to keep you under her thumb. Was she a virgin when you met her? If not, I guarantee she gave blowjobs to Chad. Deep down you are afraid of divorce and she knows it.

[–]jerrymcguiver0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Don't just toss it. You spent money on it i assume and therefore your time to earn it. Tossing it is tossing your time which should be valuable. Maybe it shows abundance in money but i see it ass a butthurt act. Keep it and next time you're eating that puss just pop out the vibrator and put it on the fucking clit as she cums. Then as you start her back up after the big o shove that bad boy inside and do your thing. Be dominate and take what you want. You've read sgm twice but the description of warmed up you mention sounds like she wasn't very warm. Almost as if you were still talking to her logically and not "daddy is going to fuck you with this vibe now you bad slut you" mindset.

[–]Redpillbrigade170 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You’re facing uphill battle with her friends who have very high ASD (anti slut defense) and have a high degree of influence on her. Typical women clubby peer pressure and group dynamic. Any chances you have to widen her social circle or hang out with more sex positive type people - you may have a shot.

Also see if you can take her out of this crappy dry environment either through travel (take her on a trip to some sexy place like Brazil or Colombia) or through seeing a cool sexy movie like Vicky Cristina Barcelona, where women decide to say fuck it and live a little.

Does she drink? A little alcohol always helps with lowering inhibitions.

Do all this, and add to that the fact that you’re an alpha male looking ripped etc. and pretty soon she’ll fuck you with abandon.

Does she have orgasms every time you have sex? I assume you go down on her and make her cum. Preferably before you go at it and have your own orgasm. Ideally again at same time as you.

Is she into sexting? I’d text her after a long session the next day: “Babe you were incredible last night. I can’t stop thinking how you x y z”

Basically build up her confidence that she’s a sex diva. Your sex diva .

Etc. Good luck

[–]RedPillCoach0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Tall jacked guy in the blue shirt, call me

This is all the Dread Game you need brah. Stop pushing it because your Dread Game is already at level 10. She knows it. You know it. The strategy is to back off and provide comfort and amusement. Don't forget to dance monkey dance.

I can't believe you would use my low self esteem to your advantage

I keep forgetting. How can somebody as high quality as myself have chosen to be with a person with low self esteem for the rest of my life. Your self esteem should be through the roof sweetheart. How can we raise it?

Obviously the dread isn't enough, so I'm trying to reconcile this with the "levels of dread".

Dread game is a continuum and you are naturally at the far right of the curve. If you go to far it destroys their self-esteem and their proper functioning, including sexual function. Don't go to far. These are comfort tests, not shit tests!

failed comfort test

And...I called it again.

You didn't say you are never going to leave, etc etc. You just said "I'm here because I want to be, that's not the same thing"

[With hot eye contact and a warm hug]: "I am not going anywhere darling." Then STFU and watch the hamster explode. Try not to laugh in her face when she starts but...but...but..



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