I like my wife less the more I eliminate codependency

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October 24, 2018

This is my first FR / question on r/askMRP. I've been reading/lurking for about 15 months. Swallowed RP over Labor Day weekend. I've been submitting OYS reports for a month now.

I have a question based on my changing experience over the past two months of working on my mission, goals, and self.

TL/DR: I am making great progress on eliminating my codependency on my wife's needs, and as that happens, I like her less and less.

My first OYS gives some context of how I arrived here, but I need to add a bit of detail. Some of this I wasn't even aware of when I submitted my first OYS, but I'm learning as I keep working on myself and think about the comments from other MRP users.

I've been with my wife for 20 years, married for 16. Met in law school. She is highly intelligent, professionally motivated, and capable. We had two demanding professional careers before she left hers when we had first child. After second child, she reentered workforce part time. Now SAHM with part-time job.

Marital background: Wife is a child of a dysfunctional home with physical and emotional abuse. When we first dated, she showed signs of abuse. No coping mechanisms for stress, prone to massive bouts of rage, saw and assumed the worst motives in people even when there was no reason to suspect malice (e.g., if I forgot something at the grocery store, she would fly off the handle, accuse me of intentionally not listening, not caring, etc.). Her strategy for accomplishing goals was basically bullying with high intelligence. Effective in short-term outcome but not in relationship building. Any normally functioning man would have run.

But I didn't run. Instead, I built a life where my psychological well being was based on making her happy. I found codependent validation in my ability to care take, fix her problems. As a result, most of my adult life was spent on eggshells, literally feeling a pit in my stomach when my cell phone rang, lying to her about going out for drinks after work, hiding my whereabouts, and generally suffocating my entire self to her whims, needs, and emotional terrorism. We would have blowouts and fights, divorce was threatened by both of us, but we always moved on and kept going.

For context, this behavior was probably about 15 percent of the time. When she wasn't acting out, we shared interests, had fun together. Sex has always been ferociously good and frequent. I knew I didn't like her behavior at her bad moments, but I was convinced I loved her, and that this was just a part of love. Marriage is hard, right? What I didn't realize until I discovered RP was that I had absolutely no independent self or life at all. I was entirely codependent, framing my emotional happiness and sadness through hers. Which is a fucked up way to live.

Fast forward until today. To my wife's credit, she has worked hard on her mental health. She lost about 50 pounds and has a hot little 40+ body now. She is dedicated to exercise, which she credits to her mental health improvement. She adds a lot of value to the household - does lots and lots around the house, manages projects, earns a second income. And sex is great. She has gotten treatment for her emotional issues as well. So we're now at a spot where the behavior I identified earlier has dramatically decreased. We might have one day a month now where she exhibits that kind of behavior, instead of two days per week. And the severity and duration of her episodes is lessened as well.
My codependence, however, did not lessen. I framed my worldview in terms of OUR goals, OUR interests, OUR family. Until recently, though, I couldn't see that OUR life was just HER life with me living in it.

My change: Come 2017, I discover RP and spend a long time reading. I read WISNIFG and NMMNG. I recognize myself inside. I spend months doing some really hard instrospection and questioning and learn that I am a 42 year old man with no sense of purpose or self independent of my wife, and that my entire life has been based on validation-seeking choices and actions. Come 2018, I swallow RP and begin to work on myself. Fitness and business are on the right path, but the hardest work I need to do is figuring out what I want and asserting myself, ending the codependency I have lived with for so long, and living my life for me.

So, after years of struggling with this, I have found a personal mission, written goals to further that mission, and plan to accomplish those goals. I'm following it, making progress, stumbling along the way, and trying to learn from the veterans here.

My question:I haven't been living with this purpose for long, but I am feeling changes in my relationship with my wife already. I don't want to rehash OYS details, but I am now leaving the house to see friends frequently. I am stating my feelings, desires, and preferences routinely and comfortably. I end phone calls with her now easily. I have taken two trips out of town with friends and simply told her I'm going, didn't ask for her thoughts or permission. My leadership skills need a lot of work yet, but I am making big strides in ending codependency. It feels great to allow myself to live for me.

Here's the thing. As I build a life around what I want and my mission, I find that I am liking my wife less and less. This does not feel like anger or resentment. I get along on a day to day basis. I am still sexually attracted to her and sex is frequent, good, and pretty raunchy. I tease her and game her as often as possible. I went through anger phase about a year ago as I was reading. This is different. It's a calm observation that I just do not enjoy her personality as much as I thought I did. I'm able to see much more clearly that I don't like the way she handles a lot of her emotional life, and those parts of her are ugly enough that it influences my entire view of her.

My question is whether this is a common stage on the RP journey? In all of the FR and OYS reports I have read, I haven't come across much discussion of this issue. The conclusion I'm coming to is that the "love" I thought I felt for her was actually just my own codependent emotional investment in her feelings and emotional state. As I'm breaking that unhealthy emotional link, I'm noticing a gap or hole in my relationship with my wife. I'm glad for this, because it means that I'm making progress on ending codependent, validation-seeking behavior. But I'm confused about figuring out what I legitimately want from my marriage now that I'm setting my own goals and mission.

I'm not looking for a quick answer to this personal question, I'm going to work through it as time goes on. I am curious from the community whether anyone else has experienced this shift, and what opportunities and pitfalls I might be overlooking or blind to here?


Post Information
Title I like my wife less the more I eliminate codependency
Author skidsm
Upvotes 29
Comments 34
Date 24 October 2018 08:08 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/203858
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/9r37lx/i_like_my_wife_less_the_more_i_eliminate/
Similar Posts

Red Pill terms found in post:
leadershipWISNIFGgamefield reportNMMNG

[–]alphasixfour26 points27 points  (10 children) | Copy

Once they are off the pedestal they will never be the same perfect lovable creatures as they were before. The bloom is forever off the rose. That goes for the way you will see all women through a fresh red-pilled lens. Hypergamy and solipsism laid bare. In short. Men are idealists and women are far from ideal.

Once the idealism washes away and the anger phase passes you can accept that and decide whether she is bad enough to do a hard next or if you are a strong enough captain to lead her to improvement.

She has a rough personality shaped by a bad childhood. Luckily women are more malleable and adaptable and flow to fit their container. i.e. your frame. You have allowed her to remain the flawed human being she is and that's on you. Part of your burden as captain. Accept it, and lead or make her walk the plank. Your choice.

[–]markpf739 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

Replace “like my wife less” with “ need my wife less”.

Now for that feeling of a void you have. You have to fill that with becoming the whole person you are supposed to be.

Sounds like the road to recovery.

[–]TaipanshimshonRed Beret8 points9 points  (4 children) | Copy

Why were you codependent in the first place?

Do you think you won’t be codependent with another woman ? Why?

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

This guy is asking the real questions here. Who is to say that things would be the same in any future relationship if you are still the same guy.

[–]redwall920 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Do you think you won’t be codependent with another woman ?

I think this is one of the big reasons I have stayed. To figure out the answer to this question moving forward. If I've truly got the best sparring partner now, then gym is still in session.

If I find myself thinking "but another woman ....", then this evidences that I haven't made the change in my own thinking that needs to happen.

[–]mountainbiker17812 points13 points  (2 children) | Copy

If you really are going through the various stages of swallowing the redpill, then you're going to start developing a greater sense of abundance mentality, and with that is the realization that you can do better.

When you realize you can do better, you start looking around at other options and comparing those options to what you have. So, not only are you seeing that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, but you can actually get those options if you chose to.

[–]positiveredpill13 points14 points  (1 child) | Copy

Male hypergamy

[–]CalvinRichland9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

You have not fixed the deep rotten part of you that is attracted to fucked up women. Push through these false feelings. Things sound decent fucking enjoy it. Oh and she'd divorce rape you anyway.

[–]RedPill-BlackLotusRed Beret5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

Do you even need a relationship? Some relationships run their course.

You can grow Into a man that no longer wants to be married. If thats the case, do it and own it. On second thought own it then do it.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy

deleted What is this?

[–]wkndatbernardus10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy

I don't see the issue if she is providing value and doesn't get in the way of you pursuing your map. Plus she's draining your sack on the regs? Damn, sounds like you are letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.

[–]mattizie5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

You're 42, how old is she? Do you have children?

My opinion is that if you have children, you should stay with her because a stable family is the best environment to raise your kids. Otherwise, why are you even married?

[–]Frosteecat5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

I've only been focused on the principles here for a few months and am probably still deep in an anger phase (though I am usually pretty good at recognizing when I'm being irrationally angry in the moment). I have noticed a similar experience though--once I wrapped my head around oneitis and the "fear" of her cheating/leaving/etc I started to see mine more objectively. Like yours appears to be, my wife is a good person and really not someone I'd complain about being around. But certain traits have gone from annoying and mysterious to being a serious turnoff and are approaching deal breaker status.

Unlike most women, my wife is very reserved, quiet and emotionless. Some days it seems like the ideal mate for a man who can get his shit together and be truly RP. But more often than not I am starting to find her as a somewhat boring and thrilless Vulcan ice queen. I like to laugh, tease, talk, have fun in the moment---she comes off like she has a stick up her ass and has no take or opinion on anything interesting.

I'm waiting to see how I feel once I'm deeper in my progress. I don't want to make rash decisions based on a possibly transitional phase. But taking the blinders off really has helped me get out of her frame. Simply reminding myself I'm 10x the intellectual she is takes the sting out of a lot of the aloofness and detached behavior that used to make me question my own value. Fuck her...I spent years trying to kiss HER ass and conform...her turn!

[–]freshona1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Maybe you're just not that funny. Or intellectual.

[–]Frosteecat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You’re the expert!

[–]RuleZeroDADRed Beret4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

Captain save a smart ho.

Additional modifiers don't change the root issue.

You're balls deep in the anger phase at yourself. You are, but you're denying it. You need to step back and gain some perspective, though. You're looking for a just outcome to your changes, and are starting to get judgmental as you view her through a different lens. It's a covert contract of "why can't she change along with me, I thought she was smarter than this."

The status quo, that you created got her her way for your entire relationship. What incentive does she have to be better? What could you do to make her feel pending loss? Hmmmm....If only someone wrote a book about this and moderated a subreddit.

[–]simbarlionRed Beret1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Aside from perhaps some latent anger towards her, the detachment you describe (or new found independence) is in fact a pre-requisite for maintaining a red pill relationship. You unplug, and see the reality, or you don't. And when you do, you can't unsee the truth. Its just like seeing the hot office chick with no makeup. Damage is done.

If it helps, just remember the new way you see your own wife, would also apply to any other girl. Your wife has not changed, you have.

[–]RedPillCoach1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You like your wife less because part of the attraction was your neediness and longing for a mommy. Now that the dream is gone, what is left?

That is the question you need to answer.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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