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I still get so confused in frame

Reddit View
October 2, 2018

I literally have read everything known to man on it. And I still have trouble grasping it in certain scenarios.

I read on here all the time “if your frame is strong enough” and I understand what frame is. But I get lost when it comes to how to apply and have a strong frame in certain situations.

Is it like being delusionally confident?

Ex “believing every woman wants you” even if it’s not true. You believe it

Someone said on here you can have a 3 some with your wife and plate if your frame is strong enough. I don’t get what that means. If I act like it’s completely normal or supposed to happen? Just not caring?

“Cheating requires a strong frame you probably don’t have” what does that mean?

can someone help my retarded ass. Not sure why I am having such a hard time grasping this

Post Information
Title I still get so confused in frame
Author DoubleDisatitagain
Upvotes 8
Comments 36
Date 02 October 2018 02:09 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Original Link
Similar Posts

Red Pill terms found in post:

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (0 children) | Copy

First of all, don't take everything that you read here as gospel. Many comments you see will be from fake alphas trying to be Mr. Billy Badass behind a keyboard.

Frame is really just your world view. And having a strong frame means nothing will alter or manipulate your world view.

Ex 1- I know I am an attractive man. It would be foolish to think that every woman wants me. But rejection is funny to me because of the knowledge I have about my own value. In my world view, I am awesome and rejection or insults or disrespect or anything else will not change this belief that I have.

Ex 2- This is retarded. Ignore.

Ex 3- In my world view, I take what I want unapologetically. If I want to cheat, I don't get ridden with guilt or regret. I own my weaknesses and accept that I am flawed. This is what a strong frame looks like to me in this example.

Ex 4- see Ex 1 explanation

[–]TaipanshimshonRed Beret5 points6 points  (10 children) | Copy

The tank has armor. And the tank IS armor.

Armor is what defines the tank.

Your frame is your vision of the world and your place in it.

A weak frame is when people easily impose their will on you.

A strong frame is the opposite

[–]DoubleDisatitagain1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy

a weak frame is when people easily impose their will on you.

So what does it mean when people have good ideas or perspectives you may not have seen before which causes you to change your view. Is this still considered having a weak frame

[–]becoming_alpha9 points10 points  (6 children) | Copy

To continue u/taipanshimshon's tank analogy further, a tank doesn't care if someone says it's weak or made of cardboard. That's a laughable notion because the tank knows it's made of steel plates. A tank doesn't care if someone has a problem with the tracks it left behind, that's what tanks do. Frame is about how you see yourself in the world and interacting with the world.

If a tank is headed up a mountain and someone suggests a better path than the tank was planning on, it's not a break in frame to take the better path.

However, if someone says you're a stupid tank and you're going up the wrong mountain, they are trying to get you out of your frame, and it's amusing to you because you know the mountain you need to climb.

[–]DoubleDisatitagain3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy

Makes a whole a lot of sense. Now what if people are saying you said something offensive but you can’t tell what is or isn’t offensive. Happens all the time. I’m made a joke and ppl will say I don’t know when to stop or I went overboard but I can’t tell what that is bc nothing offends me

[–]becoming_alpha2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

Being offended is the most subjective thing in the world and the easiest way for someone to try and assert their frame on you.

Just be genuinely you. If you think something is funny, make the joke. Someone could be offended by anything you say, but that doesn't matter to you because you don't give a fuck what they think. If someone thinks you're an asshole, or even calls you an asshole, so what? Lots of guys on here think being called an asshole is a good sign that you're asserting your frame and not caring what people think.

If you need some introspection when someone says you offended them, or that you did something wrong, think about your mission (also, read WISNIFG). Is what you said or did consistent with your mission and who you are and are becoming? If so, who gives a shit what they think? If not, act in line with your mission.

[–]DoubleDisatitagain0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

My friend I was his best man. made a joke about me taking a bath (I just moved into a 900k house with a hot tub jacuzzi.) and I used that bitch.

So I made fun of him for being poor and having a “normal person tub”. He said I was gay. I told him to bring his daughter to take a real bath [in a real mans tub]

His daughter is 2. And they always give her baths. His wife sends me videos of her playing in it. Idk why. But I said it in context that his bathtub is small and mine is huge. And he told me that wasn’t funny that it was fucked up.

I honestly didn’t mean anything rude toward his daughter who I adore and again I was his best man. I was just saying it as a “I have a real tub and you dont” manner.

But when he said that I thought oh shit. I hope he didn’t take this wrong? At first I got mad that he would even suggest I was making fun of her. or meaning it in some weird way. Then I wasn’t sure if I had actually went too far. All I could think of is him showing his wife and shit and them taking it wrong and thinking I meant it in some weird way. So I ended up explaining myself and apologizing.

He then said. “I read it wrong. You’re good”

Stupid fucking example I know but that’s kind of what I mean by being offensive and not knowing

[–]becoming_alpha1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Your friend ribbing you about taking a bath is normal, your response making fun of his normal person tub is making fun of him being poorer than you. You could make that more about you "yeah, a real man bathes like a king" instead of making fun of his lack of wealth. But you do you.

I think where you went off the rails a bit is telling him to bring his daughter to take a real bath in your tub. That's kind of creepy. You're telling him he should bring his 2 year old to your tub? Why? To bathe with you? You're also again telling him he's poor and insulting his ability to get his daughter clean in his poor man's tub.

Ultimately, it's about what's consistent with who you are? Maybe making poorer people feel bad is your thing, or bathing with 2 year olds aligns with your mission. If it's me, this exchange ends after his response "you are gay" with me saying "gay enough to fuck my wife in my giant tub."

[–]screechhaterRed Beret-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is exactly why you double check what you write before you hit send and you actually think about what you are going to say before you say it.

Much easier to edit for content and impact or think it through then say it wrong.

Are you lifting weights ? This is serious

[–]becoming_alpha3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Here's an example from last night. I go to bed and slide over to hold my wife. She's comfy and doesn't want to roll over and spoon. She says something like "you're still good and I still love you."

This is her trying to cushion her rejection of me holding her so I wouldn't feel bad about myself. Probably something that she needed to do for my 14 years of being a beta.

I respond with "I know I'm awesome" which asserts that I don't need her pity or for her to prop me up with her validation.

She says something like "ewww, now that you said that, I don't want to cuddle with you at all." She's asserting her frame here that getting to cuddle with her is the prize. This prompts a laugh from me and I tell her good night.

I'm sure guys with more experience here would have a snappy retort, but not getting butthurt about what she said is huge. In my beta days, I would have taken her comment as a rebuke and I'd better not stand up for myself in the future or I'd get more of the same. Instead, I thought it was genuinely amusing. That's frame.

[–]TaipanshimshonRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

A strong frame can include being open to other people. The only question is whether you change your views Willy nilly and whether changing your view benefits you.

I also said impose “will” - not “ tell you something that makes sense “

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Become the tank.

[–]helaughsinhidden4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Is it like being delusionally confident?

In short though, yes! Or kind of anyway.

Kind of, some books describe it that way, as in MMSLP I think it was. Might edit the actual quote if I am not too lazy. The reason you think it's delusional is that you don't think you can be "that guy" or that version of yourself. You are still probably thinking she's got the power because she has a vagina. As long as you feel like that, it's true and your frame is fake. It's a lie though. You are the prize and she's along for the ride on your adventure. Think of yourself more like Indiana Jones and she's the pretty woman he's dragging along. When she is asserting her whims, desires, needs, and changing plans over you, she's getting out of pocket. Once you realize you are the one who has experience in the jungle, the training, the whip, the gun, and it's your adventure you will more easily grin her down and make her submit to you.

Pretty much any mission requires a strong frame.

You used stuff I am not into like cheating and threesome. However consider things all over the place like running for office, quitting your existing career to start a business, moving to a different country, openly being a part of a criminal enterprise, sailing a pirate ship across the sea, or simply deciding you want to eat steak tonight instead of chicken again necessitates that you frame. You have to be SURE about what you want, who you are, and that you will get what you want "AS IF" you are entitled to it by some hidden privilege that you are sworn to keep secret.

Frame comes from a lot of areas.

Faking it.....When I started a career in sales, I had zero experience and zero confidence that I could pull it off, but a book I read told me to "fake it till I made it". I was pretty cringy at first, but eventually I got sales and settled into my new identity as a successful sales person. I READ, and then BELIEVED what I read, and APPLIED it to my life. You have to put into practice what you learn here to see results. Then, when you see results, you will believe it. When you believe it, it becomes part of your updated system of thinking and forms new behaviors. At first, some people saw through it, but it worked some of the time which was better than none of the time.


I recently watched Everest. Those guides, even when making mistakes were cock-sure they were right and told everyone what to do. The had done it many times and lived. No one was gonna usurp their authority. They had lived through it and proved to THEMSELVES that they were the boss, then everyone else respected it.


If you aren't lifting, you probably think this is bullshit, I did. My numbers suck and I have only been lifting for about two months, but my attitude is different now. It's like after a workout, for the next couple days I have a DNGAF attitude. As long as I am sore from pushing myself, I have a boost of confidence that was not there before. My walk is different, my posture is different, my gaze is different. Like clockwork too, after 2 days not being in the gym, I can FEEL the confidence slipping back down to my normal level. I will add that I have a pretty high level of confidence too, but when I am lifting, it's another level that is impossible to reach without it.


I mentioned above, I don't participate in cheating and I don't advocate it, but spinning plates isn't limited to a physical or emotional relationship. I do smile at women, I flirt, I converse, I flatter, and run a limited amount of game on them. It's good practice for gaming the wife AND it boosts my sense of abundance to know attractive women aren't shit for me to talk to and I could pull one if I wanted to. It has a huge impact on my tollerance for the wife's bullshit and the overall effectiveness of her shit tests.

Other things

If you look good, you feel good. This is why sales people wear suits. Grooming, style, hygiene, priorities, owning your shit, acing projects, mastering skills, income, career, education, etc. All those build you INTO a person that is not a delusionally confident person, but they make you modestly confident.

I recently watched a western show. The antogonist is a ruthless man who had a dream that he died in. When he woke, he was convinced that he had seen the future and witnessed his own death. Throughout the episodes, he never ran from danger because in his mind, it was impossible for him to die at that moment and in that way. He confidently defeated opponents BECAUSE of that bravery. He was nearly invincible DUE to his frame.

Was his frame delusional?

How about you OP? How are you doing on those things and other things that could cause you to have a poor frame? What is your weakest spot that makes you feel like you aren't the best version of yourself or that you aren't the kind of man people will respond to?

[–]man_in_the_worldRed Beret3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

deleted What is this?

[–]DoubleDisatitagain1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

So how do you get to a point where you scale yourself and not the programming and morals the world has placed on you thus far

[–]robertwservice19741 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

For me it happened slowly over time (it’s an ongoing process) and started with getting out of my wife’s frame.

I stopped caring whether I measured up to her standards by substituting my own. Now I’m applying the same approach to other aspects of my life.

Internalizing the Bill of Assertive Rights in WISNIFG has been a big part of that process.

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy

First of all you have to remember that most men in here that talk of frame don't know what they are talking about. When it comes to frame, unless you have been here a while and can know who's half in the bag, listen only to flared men.

What's frame? I assume you read the Rational Male blog because that is really all there is. There are others out there, but I think RM is pretty solid. Sooo frame....

I'll tell ya it's tough to figure out.

You go into work. Shit is just piled up and you are stuck in that shitty little cube. Should a human really work in this? Paperwork, email, bosses, phone calls and more emails. All you want to do it get home and you think about those guys that seem to work 4 hours a week. Then there are those fucks on MRP that seem to do nothing.

Fuck it all. You put your head down and power through the day. Just doing enough to get it done. Just hoping it all goes away and things will get better.

After you get home, grab your bag because you know. Lift. This is what you are supposed to do right? Slap her ass and run out the door before she gets pissed again. Sorry the kids might catch some collateral damage on that one.

This goes on and on. Work, sleep, shit test, lift. On repeat. Then one day after all this it's no longer about phases it's no longer about work, home, her, them, red pill, it's about the only thing you know how to do. To get strong. To be you.

You have to be you. Somehow strong. On no sleep, in disarray. Day in and day out. Doesn't matter. Why should it? Shit gets done. You get stronger. They get weaker because they can't see it.

Rebirth, overcome, lift angry, lift sad, lift happy. Train violently.

Why does where you are change anything?

You are you. everything else is just window dressing. It's still you and you are here. Existing.

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

You were the one who taught me it's hero to zero every day.

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

In .3 seconds every damn day

[–]hack3geRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Figure out what you want in life and what you expect from those in your life and you will get there. There's a good quote somewhere that anything not in your frame is either amusing, interesting or irrelevant - try to think about that.

Frame was probably the hardest part of MRP for me - when you think you have it, you don't and when you have it, you don't even think about it.

[–]mrpthrowa1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Your frame is how you see the world.

[–]SepeanRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

To me, frame is being indifferent to how my intentions and actions inconvenience or annoy other people.

[–]abudun791 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I think you're taking a wrong turn here, that will not lead you to good places. Ex. 2 and Ex. 3 read as if you got that from askTRP.

Ex. 1: Not to be taken literally as "Every woman wants you". You never know if a woman goes all the way with you, until you have sex with her. So play with her as if it would be certain, don't hold back but also don't assume it doesn't matter if you game her or not. It's about ruining it because you doubt she will have sex with you.

Ex. 2: I say a solid frame is a requirement for that, but there's more to it than just frame.

Ex. 3: Without any context it is rubbish and sounds like the author is a loud-mouth.

Ex. 4: The same frame as it is with everyone. Frame is not something you change depending on the person you're dealing with.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

deleted What is this?

[–]DoubleDisatitagain0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thank you rian I’ll get reading 👍🏻

[–]djxput0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Even thou this seemed like a rudimentary question, I enjoyed everyones responses and thought process on the matter.

Something I myself am working on.

[–]The_LitzRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy


No frame - You react to inputs from the outside world in a way the outside wants you to react. Need for validation.

Frame - You don't react to external inputs as these inputs would want you to react. You decide whether or not to react, and how you will react. You let the outside world react to your needs. No need for validation from others.

Read up on stoicism, it is deals with how you react to the world.

Your examples all revolve around women and cheating. Methinks you have another question in there somewhere.

Concerning women and cheating, many people cheat to get validation from another person. Other people cheat because they want to have sex with other people.

Big difference in motivation as to why you cheat or don't.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It took me a while to grasp it, too. Until I grasped it. The way I view it is I am filming a movie where I am the protagonist and the story bends to me. Before that, other people were able to draw me into THEIR movie. Have me play what role they wanted me to play. It is not not a thing I even think about, but just a feel. I feel other trying to pull me into their frame and I am better at resisting that.

[–]gameoflibidos0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

There are some good answers and info linked here, but I will try a simple analogy. I've found the most difficult times to hold frame are with my Wife when she's in a bad mood. Only she knows where the biggest red buttons are... the way to poke at me to try to get a reaction and drag me down into her bitterness of whatever the fuck she's bitter about.

Think of your frame like a keyboard.. most of the keyboard is black keys.. but it has some small red keys, some bigger red keys and then a giant red space bar. Those red keys are things people can do or say that will get a negative emotional reaction from you. The goal in building frame is to slowly remove all the red keys until your keyboard is just black. There are no red buttons to push. The wife (or whoever) can bang on that keyboard all they want searching for that red key but it won't be there. You shall remain calm and confident in yourself. It is a process and a difficult one to remove all the red keys and it takes practice at times where your first thought isn't ... oh hey this is clearly someone trying to break my frame... practice strong frame. It tends to be thoughts later... oh damn it.. i broke frame there... but recognizing it and learning each time you fail is how the red keys all turn to black.

[–]RedPillCoach0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I get lost when it comes to how to apply and have a strong frame in certain situations. Is it like being delusionally confident?

Interesting word choice. Why do you think you have to be confident to the point of delusion? Couldn't you just be "confident?"

Exh 1: Every woman wants you

Obviously it is not correct. The idea is that you assume they do unless proven otherwise with extreme prejudice (cuz she could just be playin you know). The idea arises from the "assume the close" wing of the PUA's. It is a goal to aspire too, not a golden law.

you can have a 3 some with your wife and plate if your frame is strong enough

Indeed. A client just today told me how a girl he met told him: "I just want a BF and a family. I don't even care if he cheats on me so long as he comes home at night."

That is her frame (at least with respect to this guy). If your frame is strong enough you can impose it on your significant other to the point of Threesomes, Mistresses and more. The trick is that she gets to decide at any time that she doesn't accept your frame and throw you out of your home.

Cheating Frame

Do you get what "frame" is? It is YOU. The indefatigable you at your best. I have seen plenty of cheaters just tell the wife- that is how it is. I love you and you are my wife but that's the best I can do. They basically say accept it and shut the fuck up or get the fuck out. That is their "frame."

Frame with new girl meeting for first time

Roosh just revised a book on that. Frame depends on your goal. If you want a first night lay read Roosh. If you are looking for a LTR then figure out what you want- your "frame"- and be obnoxiously and even aggressively up front about it. The girl will fall into your "frame" or she won't.

If it works to achieve your goal then Rinse Repeat. If not then Assess, and Revise.

[–]InChargeManRed Beret-1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy

In the words of me:

"The world happens to a man without frame. A man with frame happens to the world."

[–]DoubleDisatitagain-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy

I’ve heard this before. You didn’t make this up lmao

[–]InChargeManRed Beret0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

[–]DoubleDisatitagain-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

That’s bc you switched words around. It’s been said before.

[–]InChargeManRed Beret-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yes, lets focus on this instead of the message.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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