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Wife wants to do couples counseling.

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September 7, 2018
9 upvotes

Backstory

25, 152lb, married 3 years this October and together 5.

Lifts

Squat - 180 Bench - 90 Row - 110 OP - 60 DL - 90

All pounds and yes I realize I am very disproportionate. Just came off a 5 week break from the gym and I’m working my way back up.

I am about to come off from a ban on MRP. I’m not popular here but you may have seen that I got into a pissing match with a mod, hence the ban haha. The mod told me to rethink what happened and I took it to heart. I realized I am actually a bit of an asshole and that I went off on him and his view for no reason. I think we were actually in agreement and I just made a douche out of myself. I don’t remember the name of the mod but I am sorry for being a douche. It was uncalled for and you were a catalyst to help me see the many faults in my life.

Okay, well I’d love to say things got better but they actually got worse. I started acting out more than usual. I’m that guy you cut in front of who gets blood red, flashes his lights at you and gives you the finger. Hello. I’m that guy who thinks everybody is trying to pick a fight with him. Hello again. And I’m that guy who gets defensive for absolutely no reason and thinks the world is out to get him. Hey.

After screaming, crying and screaming again all in the span of half an our on the way to work I decided to say enough is enough. I reached my tipping point. I don’t like who I am. I don’t like the way I see the world and I don’t want to live like this for the rest of my life. This led me to get into contact with a cognitive behavioral psychologist and I have had two really productive sessions so far.

I learned that the reason why I am so defensive and twisted is due to the years of physical and verbal abuse by my mother and brother. The abandonment I had from my father. And the relentless physical and verbal bullying that I was unfortunately given up until my senior level of high school. I’ve accepted that nobody meant to treat me the way they did. I’ve accepted that this is my past and that I no longer want to be a victim.

Now into the marriage, well my wife and I get along for the most part. We have our ups and downs. Sex is frequent and enthusiastic, dinner is always great and she is very submissive for the most part. Lately, due to my readings and therapy I have come to realize that I am very negative. It’s not hard to believe that. I just am.

The issue I am having now is that when I express myself, particularly a complaint, my wife gets upset and then I feel guilty for expressing myself. Last week I went hiking and due to a bridge having collapsed I had to take my shoes off and walk in a river. I accidentally smashed my foot on a rock and with a good attitude expressed how it hurt. My wife told me that it wouldn’t have happened if I watched where I was going.

I don’t know if any of you are like me but when you accidentally get hurt and then get told you should have been more careful, it’s a bit upsetting. To further connect with what I’m saying, I am thinking that this type of behavior happens a lot with her. I get mad because she says these things and it sets me off. This time I just decided not to talk to her. I said, “Look I’m tired of expressing myself to you because whenever I do we fight so we’re just not going to talk.” I didn’t talk to her for three hours while we hiked and had lunch. Perhaps that was autistic of me but I was fired up.

To wrap this long wall of text up. She wants couples therapy and I don’t. I don’t think it’s fair that I am doing therapy on my own and am expected to do couples counseling. There’s obvious double standards in our marriage and I think that I have overlooked them for quite some time. I feel guilty when I say no or for how I think. I was also criticized for going to therapy and told that if I just opened up my heart to Jesus that everything would be okay. This came from the same woman who told me a few weeks ago that if she knew I wasn’t a believer that she would have never married me. Ouch.

I realize that this is a wall of text and I hope that I made it somewhat less painful to read so basically I’m asking, do you think it’s reasonable for me to do both of these? I’m digging through some real traumatic shit right now and I’m even on an antidepressant.

Edit:

Follow Up: 9/8

I took some time to think about what you all said to me while I was on my commute. Even in this long wall of text I was unable to see that I still have underlying issues. I took my wife out for dinner last night and apologized for last week. I don't know if it was right of me to do that but I needed to set the record straight. It's very clear to me now when she said what she said it wasn't an attack like I took it. I realize that the world talks to me and I choose to put a spin on it. Right now I am my own biggest problem, as someone stated in another post of mine. I explained to her that right now I need to do therapy by myself before I can do couples therapy. I don't know if we need couples therapy. All I know is that I need it and it's a good enough start for me.


Post Information
Title Wife wants to do couples counseling.
Author yesbuthereswhy
Upvotes 9
Comments 109
Date 07 September 2018 04:22 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/204047
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/9dvx5a/wife_wants_to_do_couples_counseling/
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Comments

[–]SorcererKingMod / Red Beret16 points17 points  (12 children) | Copy

It was uncalled for and you were a catalyst to help me see the many faults in my life.

We could do with more of this and less ego. Everyone take note.

Edit: It wasn't me, btw. Odds are better than even it was WNS.

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

That's progress right there. Contrast that to IAmSteveMcQueen, who just couldn't give up his ego and validation whoring.

[–]weakandsensitive5 points6 points  (7 children) | Copy

It was because of pasta and being unoriginal. Easy to detect weak, fragile men. At least he's back for round two though.

[–]johneyapocalypseThe one that says "Bad Motherfucker"6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy

It's spaghetti versus steak guy.

(I prefer spaghetti.)

OP...

I think you should go to counseling with your wife. There are smarter dudes than me who can help you navigate the mine field that is counseling, but consider the following:

  • You raged on w&s - an otherwise kind soul - over steak and spaghetti.
  • You're a self-described angry bastard.
  • You're now understanding that you suffered some indignities as a kid, including some big-time bullying.

My guess is that you can be a bit of a cock-sucker to your wife.

You don't always have to be such a tough guy.

Just get the counseling bro.

p.s. I walk in the water barefoot, smash my foot, wife gives me grief... I don't have fits. I think your go-to behavior is fits. And I bet she's suffered through quite a few of 'em.

p.p.s. Cognitive behavioral therapy is good stuff. Think Tony Robbins but on a more practical, daily level.

Big-ass edit:

To wrap this long wall of text up. She wants couples therapy and I don’t. I don’t think it’s fair that I am doing therapy on my own and am expected to do couples counseling. There’s obvious double standards in our marriage and I think that I have overlooked them for quite some time. I feel guilty when I say no or for how I think. I was also criticized for going to therapy and told that if I just opened up my heart to Jesus that everything would be okay. This came from the same woman who told me a few weeks ago that if she knew I wasn’t a believer that she would have never married me. Ouch.

I don’t think it’s fair that I am doing therapy on my own and am expected to do couples counseling.

She doesn't expect it, she's asking for it. By phrasing it the way you are you sound like a god-damn martyr. Don't be a martyr. That's the only thing worse than a steak-versus-spaghetti-expert-futures-trader.

There’s obvious double standards in our marriage and I think that I have overlooked them for quite some time.

Obvious to whom? You? The angry guy? This double standard doesn't seem so obvious to your wife, martyr.

feel guilty when I say no or for how I think.

And yet you seem to be implying that this is the fault of your wife.

You wouldn't be the first, martyr.

I was also criticized for going to therapy and told that if I just opened up my heart to Jesus that everything would be okay.

Huh? Where the fuck did that come from? (BTW, you should open your heart to Jesus.)

This came from the same woman who told me a few weeks ago that if she knew I wasn’t a believer that she would have never married me.

Hmmm, I guess you're referring to your wife. Okay. Well. That's a bit different.

People say things in the heat of the moment to hurt each other. That's normal. After all, we're all just humans... a few steps above apes.

Dig into whether your wife just meant to hurt you - like you've done to her scores of times before - or whether that reflects a bigger, deeper problem in your relationship. Frankly, as a nonplussed agnostic, if my wife told me that, I'd either (1) hit the road or (2) agree to that marriage counseling.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I didn’t catch this comment until today.

I actually apologized to my wife over dinner yesterday about the foot thing. I am starting to realize that what people say to me and what I hear are two different things. The victim in me hears a mean vicious attack every time. I can’t imagine how many people I’ve ran off or opportunities I’ve let slip through the cracks due to my own issues.

I spoke with my wife about the therapy and told her that right now I do believe a lot of our problems are the result of me and my temper. I told her that I need to sort myself out and how I see the world because I can’t save our marriage if I haven’t even saved myself.

[–]helaughsinhidden2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I remember that now. It was actually a great OP. The comments went sideways though. Something about the cost of spaghetti on the open market was inversely proportionate to the cost of steak when visiting a sex starved Italy, right?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

When I die that’s going to be in my top ten autistic moments.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

That was awful to read over again.

[–]justpickanyusernameRed Beret13 points14 points  (8 children) | Copy

The issue I am having now is that when I express myself whine, particularly a complaint, my wife gets upset and then I feel guilty for expressing myself whining. Last week I went hiking and due to a bridge having collapsed I had to take my shoes off and walk in a river. I accidentally smashed my foot on a rock and with a good attitude like a little girl expressed whined how it hurt. My wife told me that it wouldn’t have happened if I watched where I was going.

I'm not sure you realize how far you need to come to turn yourself around here. Part of what opened my eyes when swallowing the pill was that I was in command of more than I thought I was. I picked out one paragraph, but your whole post is one big whining puke without the stubbing your toe story. If you stub your toe, take it like a man and not a little bitch. She tested your masculinity and you failed miserably. Pussy confirmed.

I don't think there is any harm in evaluating the road that brought you to where you are. The behavioral psychologist did this with you. My biggest issue is that you can easily use it as a crutch and take on a victim mentality (which I can see you already do a lot).

You are in control of your life. Nobody else is in control but you. Address your issues, but realize that nothing is holding you back but yourself.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy

I don't think there is any harm in evaluating the road that brought you to where you are. The behavioral psychologist did this with you. My biggest issue is that you can easily use it as a crutch and take on a victim mentality (which I can see you already do a lot).

I’m not so sure I agree on that but in regards to the last paragraph yes I do realize that.

[–]SorcererKingMod / Red Beret3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy

I’m not so sure I agree

Hedging language. Come on you bitch, agree or disagree.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

Okay, I disagree.

I’ve been the victim and now I want out. My language might have said otherwise but that is the direction I want.

[–]creating_my_life1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

much of what you're saying in the comments of this thread still drips of victim language. We can all see it, you can't. That's why we're calling you out on it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Maybe you’re right. For the longest time I didn’t even know I was mad. I’ll reflect in a couple weeks.

[–]creating_my_life2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

a good read for you might be "extreme ownership". it's the complete opposite of victim mentality.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Is it the military book?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

One of children (girl 12y.o.) the other day was on the way to a soccer game, and instead of preparing for it she spent the greater portion of the morning derping out to cat videos on youtube. I told her several times that she needed to get ready for the game, but apparently Pusheen videos were more important.

Needless to say, when it came time to get in the car and drive over to the game she wasnt ready. She then proceeded to throw a temper tantrum because she was struggling to get her soccer shoes on. After 45 seconds of "stupid shoes!" And thrashing about in the backseat complaining about the window i told her "its not the fucking shoes, theyre an inanimate object, the only person involved in this situation is you. Youre either gonna pull your head out of your ass and accept that you fucked off the entire morning watching stupid shit and accept that this means the rest of your preparation is going to be under stress or ill turn the fucking car around and you can disappoint your entire team for not showing up to the game. Your choice, i dont fucking care which way you choose to go here, but we're not going to have a fucking pity party over your own poor decisions". She pulled her head out of her ass about 20 seconds later and went on to have a fairly solid game.

[–]2ndalRed Beret8 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy

I don’t like who I am.

See anything interesting about this phrase? You don't like who you are. There are two different instances of You. There is the you who recognizes there is some other you that is not the real you.

This is good news - you are self aware. You are aware that you are not your actions, that inside there is a person and that person does things, positive and negative. The real you cannot be changed, but the actions you take (that you and others mistakenly think is the real you) can.

You're already on that path to changing your actions. See, you came here, recognized your faults, accepted them, and moved on. Great job. Keep doing that.

[–]simbarlionRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

YOU count = 17. That has to be a record.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You sound a lot like my therapist but still good to hear.

[–]SorcererKingMod / Red Beret7 points8 points  (4 children) | Copy

I don’t know if any of you are like me but when you accidentally get hurt and then get told you should have been more careful, it’s a bit upsetting.

Would it be upsetting if your 3-year old said the same thing?

“Look I’m tired of expressing myself to you because whenever I do we fight so we’re just not going to talk.” I didn’t talk to her for three hours while we hiked and had lunch.

Better than getting mad, but still bitchy.

Perhaps that was autistic of me

Yep.

I don’t think it’s fair

No goddamn frame.

I feel guilty when I say no or for how I think.

If only there were a resource for that sort of thing, maybe we could put it on the MRP sidebar.

This came from the same woman who told me a few weeks ago that if she knew I wasn’t a believer that she would have never married me.

Chad isn't a believer. Your wife would fuck Chad. Interesting, isn't it?

I’m digging through some real traumatic shit right now and I’m even on an antidepressanf.

It is for guys like you that we so often say: STFU.

[–]IRunYourRiver0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, I wondered about that too. When I get little hurts like this, I expect and even like it when someone gives me shit. It's fun. Having someone rush to my side to comfort me makes me want to puke.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Okay, fair points.

[–]DanceMonkeeDanceRed Beret4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Here's an observation. You complained about fairness in your OP. In your response to SK, you use the throwaway phrase, "fair points."

Is it fair to say that your worldview is one in which your entire being is wrapped up in how you are being treated? Just kidding. That's not a real question. It is.

It's why you lose your mind when you get cut off in traffic. Your wife chides you and you get angry, when instead you should be asking yourself why she thinks she needs to parent you.

You need to stoic the fuck up.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Just to emphasize his point about STFU.

I'm in the beginning of swallowing the pill too and STFU is so SO important. Probably the most important thing. Also you gotta keep your ego in check. I'm the kind of guy who used to get on the defensive really quick when I recieved criticism (valid or not) and I always got irritated and started explaining (or DEERing: see the sidebar). Now I just either STFU or plainly admit my wrongdoing if it's warranted.

It's so much better this way.

[–]RuleZeroDADRed Beret5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy

Now by "Couple's Counselling" you mean with a Church authority? Or do you mean with an actual therapist? If the latter, have your current therapist be in charge of the treatment, or use it as an excuse to avoid group treatment while you are dealing directly with your own issues.

Establish your frame here. She is trying to sabotage your own treatment by shaming and inserting "Jesus Saves" into something personal and hurtful to you.

It's time to put the oxygen mask on yourself first while the cabin depressurizes in the plane, because you, Napoleon, can't let this inferiority complex ruin your life, regardless of what the Church elders and Mrs. High-and-mighty think.

So what if you got married in the Church to fuck your wife. You won't be the last either.

But dude, you are tiny, with a fragile ego to match. Get the INDIVIDUAL therapy to get over your impotent rage, lift to get attractive, and STFU until the effects of those actions brings a smirk to your face.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

My guess is that it has to do with church. I haven’t asked because quite frankly I don’t want to go. Like you said I’m on a mission to save myself. I can’t hold together a marriage if I can’t even hold myself together.

[–]markpf737 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy

Fix yourself first the way you want to be fixed.

Couples therapy is just a way for your wife to mold you with a co-conspirator into the person she wants/thinks/feelz you to be for her own self serving purpose.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Jeez.

Even on the happy pills that does not sound good. Thanks for the heads up. I’ll say, look I need to handle myself and then afterwards we’ll see. I’d like to think that after it’s all settled and done I can fix any problems in my marriage by fixing myself first.

[–]Chump_No_More0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You will find no one here that thinks couples therapy is worth a damn but there is value to your wife joining you occasionally in your sessions. It will help your therapist understand the dynamic in your marriage and gauge your coping mechanisms when stressed.

[–]helaughsinhidden5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy

I’m that guy you cut in front of who gets blood red, flashes his lights at you and gives you the finger. Hello.

I used to lose my shit all the time and almost never. Realize a couple things about anger.

#1. No one cares if you are angry. The person who cut you off doesn't know you. People aren't conspiring to harm you. The world is just a broken place where messed up things happen all the time. Reacting with humility, forgiveness, and grace is what Jesus did and teaches, so when your wife says she wishes you were a believer, that's probably a huge part of what she means but isn't sure how to express it without you getting butt hurt.

#2. It doesn't really get you what you want. Think about how many times people have lost their shit on you. How many times did you literally or figuratively tell that person to fuck off or decide to cut them out of your life at least for a little while. Even if you gave them the desired "thing" that they were demanding, it came at a great cost. This is how the world sees your anger too. Each time you yell at your wife, give sarcastic comments, glare at her, or talk to her as if you think she is a bitch, it absolutely has a quantifiable cost. Don't believe me? Hang out in r/DeadBedrooms for a while. I used to lose a ton of money getting mad while playing poker in casinos too, but I digress.

#3. Anger isn't a real feeling or emotion. Don't get me wrong, you can feel pain, disappointment, fear, anxiety, rejection, embarrassment, or a wide range or feelings, but anger is not one of those pure emotions. Anger is a defensive mechanism that people use to mask what they are feeling, punish people we think are attacking us, and to harness our fight or flight response. It is the result a decision you made in the moment instead of using a different coping mechanism. To be honest, the comments people make that anger you like your wife telling you to be careful, isn't meant to harm you. See how you assumed she meant to call you stupid, which you decided was an insult, then decided she should be punished with attitude that included mean words, unloving tone, and an increased volume meant to intimidate and punish her for her disrespect. Something I had to learn is even if they are trying to piss you off, they can't do it without my permission. Also, it is a display of weakness.

#4. Gaming your wife and passing shit tests requires you to lose your anger. Every woman is going to shit test. Mostly for me, she says little disrespectful comments that take small, but noticeable jabs at me. Could be intelligence, dutifulness, intentions, comparison, bringing up old beta behavior, etc. It is all MEANT to hurt you in a small way that is hard to call them out on, but could incite you to anger. If you give into the anger, you lose the test, plain and simple. It shows you aren't a fit mate in a small measurable way, hence her desire for counseling.

In your story of hurting your foot, you ALMOST passed it. If you would have simply STFU, you would have got a "C", passing but only by a little. Instead you verbally complained saying “Look I’m tired of expressing myself to you because whenever I do we fight so we’re just not going to talk.”. You pouted like a weak victim and then didn't STFU, but "stonewalled" as a form of punishment. STFU means you don't say anything at all to punish or react. Even better would have been something like "My bad, I was picturing you giving me head on the other side behind those trees and I just didn't see it. Let's talk about it over there".

See how you can CHOOSE to let shit slide and go directly into gaming her instead?

[–]lololasaurus1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

So very well said.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I am seeing a reoccurring theme here in the posts which is a good thing. I realize that I do choose to be upset and angry. Yesterday I had a car cut me off for the first time and it was very calm and relaxing. I have only begun but I am starting to realize that I have programmed myself to be negative. My wife could have been genuinely looking out for me when I complained but I am just so used to being verbally assaulted that it just came off like an attack.

Thanks for the insight.

[–]helaughsinhidden5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Guys in "our" boat either improve or get divorced, become bitter, then go MGTOW and die young of heart disease. Good news is that IF you seek advice and are able to receive it, you have nearly a 100% chance of improvement. Read the sidebar books and lift.

By the way, being a "born again Christian" is a huge shortcut to having that new heart that is eternally optimistic, but you can't fake it. Just something you have to pray to receive and believe it will be answered.

[–]PersaeusRed Beret5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

“Look I’m tired of expressing myself to you because whenever I do we fight so we’re just not going to talk.”

the key to successful STFU is not talking; including about how you're not going to talk. in this way, her hamster is able to spin freely.

This came from the same woman who told me a few weeks ago that if she knew I wasn’t a believer that she would have never married me.

do you believe in jesus or not? see you're so naturally passive agressive; i can't tell.

if you don't want to; you're answer to her request for couples counseling is "no". if she ask why; the answer is "i don't want to" or if you have to DEER a little "i'm working on my own problems". if she persist, just broken record (repeat yourself).

read WISNIFG, again if you already did

LIFT; you're weak as fuck

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Noted and yeah the lifts are shit. No excuses for that.

[–]suprathepeg1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Work on high weight and low volume. If you’re hiking I’m gonna assume your somewhat fit already. The strength will boost your confidence. Once you feel a plateau then you switch to higher reps.

[–]lololasaurus4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

Fair? The fair is a place you go to eat cotton candy.

Life isn't fair. Nothing is fair.

Good job taking responsibility for your attitude though.

As for the believer thing, that's hard. For us I'm the believer who thought I married a believer and she abandoned the faith. I empathize with your wife if it's something she's serious about. But at the same time if you don't believe, you don't believe, that's just what it is.

That's hard. Anyway, life's not fair there either.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Hey that’s real. Well, I never misled or told my wife that I was of her faith. I never misrepresented myself and for the longest time have even come to accept her beliefs. It makes her happy and I’m glad that she has something good in her life. I’ve tried many religions out and realized it’s not my thing. I accept the idea of a God and I moved on.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret4 points5 points  (8 children) | Copy

Didn't read your puke, but realize, thisis probably for 2 reason:

  1. build a consensus that you're a bag of shit, a second person to pile on

  2. so she can say 'I tried eeverything' before she leaves you.

Neither one is for your benefit

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (7 children) | Copy

Okay, well I respect your opinion but I don’t give a fuck if she leaves. I know I may not act like it but I’m not here because I’m afraid she’ll leave. I’m more afraid that one day I’m going to pick a fight with the wrong dude or pull out my gun and hurt someone because I’m not okay with who I am. I am all about saving myself but I’d be more than happy for her to stay on the boat. I’m sailing either way.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Okay, well I respect your opinion but

but means disregard everything I just said. It's OK, I don't need your acceptance. I'm speaking from the experience of every guy who came before us. I already said I didn't read the rest of it. I generally hate askMRP for it's garbage fire status.

I’m going to pick a fight with the wrong dude or pull out my gun and hurt someone because I’m not okay with who I am.

We ain't shit, and thats OK. ex_addict_bro had a post about someone yelling at him on vacation. may be a good resource for you

[–]helaughsinhidden0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I generally hate askMRP for it's garbage fire status.

It's so hard to resist watching tho..

[–]RedPillCoach1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I’m more afraid that one day I’m going to pick a fight with the wrong dude or pull out my gun and hurt someone because I’m not okay with who I am.

You took that line almost word for word out of the coaching textbook section on: "When you should refer clients for therapy."

May I suggest taking up a martial art? Besides the mental discipline which you badly need, I think when you walk into a room and know that you could destroy just about anybody in that room without breaking a sweat it wierdly let's you redirect your anger. With great power comes great responsibility. Right now you have no power and are only just beginning to take responsibility. You could turn this around quickly from a coaching perspective but therapy is going to require some regression and long visits to the past.

Edit: Just realized the post title. THIS IS NOT AN ENDORSEMENT OF COUPLE'S COUNSELING IN ANY WAY. I AM TALKING ABOUT INDIVIDUAL COUNSELING. This has been a public service announcement.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for the PSA.

I’d love to do martial arts but I honest to heck don’t know where to fit into my schedule. I work 40 hours a week, study and class 20 and then hit the gym 3 times a week.

[–]weakandsensitive4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy

My wife told me that it wouldn’t have happened if I watched where I was going.

She stated the obvious.

I don’t know if any of you are like me but when you accidentally get hurt and then get told you should have been more careful, it’s a bit upsetting.

You chose to get butthurt.

Weak men and the shit they do. Nothing surprising.

Follow up reading which you might find interesting. It's on you to figure out how the follow up link relates to your situation though.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I appreciate the follow up and again, I was a douche earlier so my bad. You didn’t deserve it.

[–]weakandsensitive0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

You didn’t deserve it.

I guarantee you it didn't bother me at all.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

That’s good. I’m just extending thanks.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

Deadlifts start at 135 pounds, which is roughly equivalent to 0 pounds.

  • Father Dom Mazetti

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Dom speaks the gospel.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I started at 45lb and got to 155lb. A trainer told me my form sucked ass and I did a reset. He said it’s okay to go with low weight as long as your form doesn’t suck.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

A 45# deadlift?

I just cant even.

Surely the purse you carry for your wife weights more than that. Fag.

[–]rocknrollchuck2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

This led me to get into contact with a cognitive behavioral psychologist and I have had two really productive sessions so far.

This is good, I would continue this.

The issue I am having now is that when I express myself, particularly a complaint, my wife gets upset and then I feel guilty for expressing myself. Last week I went hiking and due to a bridge having collapsed I had to take my shoes off and walk in a river. I accidentally smashed my foot on a rock and with a good attitude expressed how it hurt. My wife told me that it wouldn’t have happened if I watched where I was going.

That's typical for a woman who doesn't respect you.

I don’t know if any of you are like me but when you accidentally get hurt and then get told you should have been more careful, it’s a bit upsetting. To further connect with what I’m saying, I am thinking that this type of behavior happens a lot with her. I get mad because she says these things and it sets me off.

This is a victim statement. Be honest: she says these things and you choose to get angry. Anger is ALWAYS a choice. Part of establishing frame is controlling your own emotions. Have you read Walking On Eggshells?

“Look I’m tired of expressing myself to you because whenever I do we fight so we’re just not going to talk.” I didn’t talk to her for three hours while we hiked and had lunch. Perhaps that was autistic of me but I was fired up.

Yes this was autistic. It shows that you have no idea how to handle responding to her, which is a huge DLV.

I was also criticized for going to therapy and told that if I just opened up my heart to Jesus that everything would be okay. This came from the same woman who told me a few weeks ago that if she knew I wasn’t a believer that she would have never married me. Ouch.

Okay, I'm a Christian so let me share a perspective you may not have considered about all this: she may be upset with herself because she did not vet you properly before marriage. Christians are supposed to marry Christians, it's called being equally yoked. But what is done is done, and she's handling it improperly. So here's what you do: use what the Bible says to convict HER of her need to change. 1 Peter 3:1-2 has this to say:

Wives, in the same way submit yourselves to your own husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, 2 when they see the purity and reverence of your lives.

THIS is what she is supposed to be doing, submitting to you without a word. Not criticizing. Not dragging you to couples counseling. Not nagging. So remind her of this. Quote those two verses to her word-for-word. Call her on it. She's a Christian? Then she should act like it, and obey what the Bible says. She can't have it both ways. The caveat here is that if she actually starts doing what the Bible says, you just might feel differently about the whole thing...

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

This is a victim statement. Be honest: she says these things and you choose to get angry. Anger is ALWAYS a choice.

This is one of the reasons I reached out to a therapist. I was bullied relentlessly and every day, even on my medication I imagine getting into verbal confrontations every day. It’s terrible and I don’t want a pity party but I just wanted to say that you’re absolutely right. It’s taking a lot of work to realize I am my own biggest problem.

In regards to the Christian aspect, she is one of those “I’m not religious or Christian” but I read the Christian Bible, worship Jesus, go to Christian Churches and associate with Christians. It’s a mindfuck because she accepts what she wants and always gets on to me if pull shit like you’re suggesting. I’m not saying you’re wrong because you are but I’ve learned long ago that it’s like pissing in the wind.

[–]rocknrollchuck2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Well, then you don't have the frame to pull it off, it's really that simple. I would state the verse, and when she pushes back, Broken Record that nonsense:

Her: "Nag, nag, criticize..."

You: "Wives, in the same way submit yourselves to your own husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, 2 when they see the purity and reverence of your lives."

Her: "I know what it says, I'm the Christian here, remember?"

You: "Christians do what the Bible says. You're obviously not doing that."

Her: "What would you know about the Bible? We need to go to counseling together."

YOU: "I understand you think that, but if you're not doing what the Bible says, why do you think I would I waste my time talking with a Christian counselor who probably isn't doing what the Bible says either?"

Be creative, and use Broken Record, Fogging and Negative Inquiry. You actually have the upper hand here, because she's calling you out from a position of weakness if she's not living what she says she believes. I mean, aren't Christians supposed to obey the Bible? I would use it - she may not change, but she may just back down after a while.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Okay, those are fair points. I am going to have to deal with it this weekend since she dropped this on me this morning.

[–]hystericalbonding2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

It's obvious that you haven't read WISNIFG. Read the sidebar prerequisites.

My wife told me that it wouldn’t have happened if I watched where I was going.

Shit test. Cocky, funny, AA, AM, etc.

Squat - 180 Bench - 90 Row - 110 OP - 60 DL - 90

After 5 months of Stronglifts. No, not Stronglifts, but your own modification of it based on your obvious expertise in the weight room.

How do you even set up for a 90lbs deadlift? Just pulling your back flat and lats tight would lift the weight off the floor.

How can your deadlift be less than your row? You're either horribly cheating rows, or you're a chicken shit on deadlift. At 90lbs, you're better off doing slow RDL's until you can figure out how to move.

Take video, submit form check to a lifting sub, and then decide if you're going to fire your trainer.

do you think it’s reasonable for me to do both of these?

Couples therapy for a guy with no frame is a big gamble.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It's obvious that you haven't read WISNIFG. Read the sidebar prerequisites.

You’re right and that’s shame on me.

As far as I know I’m doing SL. My DL is low because I did a reset. A trainer in the gym told me my form sucked and he said to train with the bar. I was at 155lb deadlift before.

Couples therapy for a guy with no frame is a big gamble.

Fair call.

[–]Two_kids_in_a_coat2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

How can your row be higher then your deadlift?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I don’t row from the ground. Also, I barbell row. And I am doing a reset because my DL form sucks.

[–]creating_my_life1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

he might be wiggling his sorry excuse for shoulders on a cable rower, rather than lifting some damn weight off the ground to do bent-over row with a bar.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

I can identify with this a little since I went through some similar stuff a decade ago. The reason you keep hearing STFU in the responses is that it's an excellent strategy. You know that quote "Better to keep you mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it an remove all doubt."? Yeah, that's STFU.

Also, in therapy the basic idea is to communicate lots so your therapist can see what your thought patterns are and help challenge the ones that are off. That belongs in counseling sessions behind closed doors, not in front of your wife. And as another guy asked, I hope this is a real certified counselor not some bullshit church dude who's just interested in pushing some other agenda and dysfunctional strategies on you.

> I don’t know if any of you are like me but when you accidentally get hurt and then get told you should have been more careful, it’s a bit upsetting.

OK, this is actually really key. Your statement of "it's a bit upsetting" presupposes that it HAS to be that way. But what's actually happening is that her remark is being filtered in your mind against all of your pre-existing beliefs, your ego, your wants and desires, bounces up on your emotional reactivity, and then "you" create the statement "it's upsetting". What the guys are saying is that as you work through the layers of conditioning through CBT, practice, and experience, that conclusion will eventually not arise in the same way, won't feel inevitable. You may not see it or feel the possibility yet because it sounds like you're right in the thick of things with therapy, but that's OK.

Good news is that you're able to reflect and look back and honestly evaluate your mistakes and hopefully learn from them to slowly improve your outlook and responses. Some guys are all ego or have areas they're just not willing to look at.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Thanks and wow this was all one big eye opener. I don’t know who the heck she wants to see. I am seeing a real doctor on my own that I personally reached out to. I was in no way guilted or pressured into doing the CBT.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Individual therapy is great; I fully support it. The reason couples counseling gets shit on in MRP/TRP circles is basically what Rian_stone laid out: a way to ease her guilt before she walks, or another stick she can use to try to beat you into submission with the aid of a third party. It appears that a large proportion of couples counselors are very bluepill and new-agey will generally side with the wife. If the therapist doesn't play nice and has the audacity to point out the wife's role in creating this rotting marital swamp, then the husband generally hears "well, this therapy clearly isn't working. Let's go.". LOL.

And as a complete aside, if you haven't discovered Dalrock's blog yet, he has a lot to say about where American Churchianity is going, and the hypocrisy and gynocentrism infecting it. https://dalrock.wordpress.com/

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Okay, I’m going to look into this.

[–]creating_my_life1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Nobody has mentioned the 1000' rope here. You have a LONG history of a being an angry, whiney little bitch that people hate.

Great, you've seen the light and decided to change. Those around you, those know you best, and MOST OF ALL your wife, will be the SLOWEST to accept that your changes are real and permanent.

Of course she's going to get VERY defensive against your old self. And, truthfully, MOST people who say they're going to change never do and continue to be their whiney bitchey old selves.

You will need MANY MONTHS AND YEARS of consistently non-negative you in order for your wife to stop being so damn defensive.

This is why we say STFU.

Also, perhaps your wife was co-dependent on the negative you in some way. Maybe the positive you won't be a good match for you. Tip: don't have kids any time soon.

Normally I disagree with ANY counseling, but you seem pretty fucked up in the head in the way that counseling seems to help. IF YOU DO go down that path, avoid the church shit at all costs.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

that people hate.

That got me right in the feelz.

Yeah the CBT is definitely happening. I am fucked up in a lot of ways I never knew. I’m smart enough to be using a real psychologist who is a doctor with 20 years of experience.

[–]RedPillCoach1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I like this post. It is a decent example of owning your shit, or at least a very Blue Pill guy moving in the right direction.

I’m that guy who gets defensive for absolutely no reason and thinks the world is out to get him. Hey.

You missed the boat there brah. There is absolutely a reason for you getting defensive and I would try to find it. Also...pro tip: The fucking world IS out to get you! Own it.

After screaming, crying and screaming again all in the span of half an our on the way to work I decided to say enough is enough. I reached my tipping point.

Well that didn't take much. Not even a gun in your mouth. This is patty cake.

the reason why I am so defensive and twisted is due...….

How did I know there was a reason? Therapy does this to people and let's you spin all kinds of excuses for past behavior. The nice thing about coaching is we focus on the future. Yah, you were bullied in the past. Maybe you need to work it out in therapy first and spew it all over the place- but when you are ready to move forward give me a jingle:

coaching4men.com

when I express myself, particularly a complaint, my wife gets upset and then I feel guilty for expressing myself.

I can see we have a lot of work to do but we also have a lot to work with.

First, what is a "complaint?" Bitching and whining like a woman is not good leadership. Leadership is taking care of the problem without complaining. That may include instructing the wife or others to take action to resolve the problem. Where does a "complaint" enter this picture?

Second, wife gets upset. So what?

Third, I feel guilty. Why? What would it look like to let go of the guilt and not care if your wife is upset. Sure you are aware and perhaps you are even concerned (or amused) about your wife's emotions...but how would it be if you didn't think it was a big deal? What if you let her negative emotions roll off you like water off a duck's back?

[–]RedPillCoach1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

Individual counseling for you (who needs it) and for her if she needs it, but what good can possibly come of couple's counseling?

if she knew I wasn't a believer she would never have married me

Your marriage is far more fragile than you realize. Rian Stone is right (usually). Christians are specically authorized to divorce non-believers.

Also, your lifting numbers are incrediblely pathetic. Get your T checked ASAP and get to work. I don't care if you are depressed. Lift the damn iron.

[–]lololasaurus1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

No, we aren't authorized to divorce non believers.

Unless they leave. Then we are free... And the definition of free is debated in serious Christian circles (free to remarry? Freed from the responsibility to pursue, etc, there are different views on this)

But we are specifically forbidden from divorcing only over unbelief.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Your marriage is far more fragile than you realize. Rian Stone is right (usually). Christians are specically authorized to divorce non-believers.

It could be man but I don’t want to go there just yet. I knew what I was getting into when I said yes. I was okay with her belief but I won’t lie and say there hasn’t been kick back on her end. Before then medication, I wondered if I did the right thing getting married so early. On the medication, I don’t even know who the hell I am.

I am not depressed though. The antidepressant helps with my anger. I should have noted that.

[–]johneyapocalypseThe one that says "Bad Motherfucker"0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Christians are specically authorized to divorce non-believers.

Is that really a thing?

[–]RedPillCoach1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Actually, in reading the relevant scripture I am wrong. Below is the King James Version and the American Standard version.

TLDR: If an unbeliever wants to stay married the believing husband or wife CANNOT dump their spouse. However, if they can become intolerable enough to force the partner to "kill the puppy" they are free to remarry.

English Standard

if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he should not divorce her. If any woman has a husband who is an unbeliever, and he consents to live with her, she should not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband is made holy because of his wife, and the unbelieving wife is made holy because of her husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy. But if the unbelieving partner separates, let it be so. In such cases the brother or sister is not enslaved.

King James Version

If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. 13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. 14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. 15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases

[–]lololasaurus0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

... and I should have kept reading before I replied. Thanks for clearing that up.

[–]Code-Master131 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I'm not a master myself, but I've been where you are (in regards to your wife's response to your toe.). My wife used to say things like that to me all the time. I would respond in one of two ways, I'd crack a joking/sarcastic response about how helpful that information would be, and if only I'd had it before it happened. Sometimes she'd get mad, other times she'd laugh and continue with the joke. Probably depended on my delivery and genuine attitude at the time.

The other way I responded was not to complain. When I did something dumb, and hurt myself, I kept it to myself. If she happened to notice I was hurt and asked, I'd reply with a way of taking responsibility "I wasn't paying close enough attention, and kicked my finger", "I pushed to hard on my run and pulled my hamstring", "I wasn't paying close enough attention and stubbed my toe", etc...

Guess which method worked better? The 2nd one. In that response, I didn't complain, I just took responsibility, which takes away that response that urkes us so much. If you don't want your wife giving you the mother treatment, then you need to "Own Your Shit". Don't go running to her and expect sympathy.

When I started doing option 2, she all of a sudden would give me the sympathy I no longer cared about ironically enough.

You've got a lot to work through, as many of us in this sub do. You're aware, which is good, you're being humble, which is also good. Keep working, keep lifting, become internally validated, not externally validated and things will fall into place.

That's really what TPR/MRP breaks down to. When you're ok with yourself, it won't matter what else is going on outside of you.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks this connected a lot.

[–]DeplorableRay1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

I wish I had more to offer than sidebar/lift.

I will add however, that my (not teenage yet) son and my wife have a stronger dead lift than you.

I'd tell you not to take that personally, but after reading your post, I'm sure you will anyways.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I don’t know if you were trying to make me laugh but that was funny.

[–]DeplorableRay1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

My own form of AM.

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Couples counseling is usually heavily weighted towards the woman . Don’t do it.

Suggest you both do individual counseling instead. Find a RP man for yourself.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Right now I have a female psychologist and so far she seems alright. If we end up butting heads too much I will switch.

[–]mindfulbutgutlessRed Beret0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

Where are you on the side bar reading? You sound like you need a double dose of NMMNG and WISNIFG.

My wife told me that it wouldn’t have happened if I watched where I was going.

The truth fucking stings, especially when you already know it.

I was also criticized for going to therapy and told that if I just opened up my heart to Jesus that everything would be okay.

Because of this I really think u/Rian_Stone hit the nail on the head with option 2.

so she can say 'I tried eeverything' before she leaves you.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

Read the reply I gave to him.

I have read NMMNG twice and I haven’t read much of anything else. I need to learn to manage my time better because at the moment I am focused on my work and college. I need to get these other books in.

[–]mindfulbutgutlessRed Beret1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

Have you done the activities in NMMNG? even if you have, I would suggest going over them again with your psychologist. It will give you a chance IMO to more out of the book.

When I Say No I Feel Guilty is a bit dry but full of very useful tactics, and I would say you need to give it a read.

Read the reply I gave to him.

I did, good on you for wanting this for what I see as the "right" reasons.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I didn’t really do the activities. Guess that means I didn’t complete the book.

[–]mindfulbutgutlessRed Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

The whole point of the book is to Break Free. so yeah time for round 3. And utilize your therapy sessions to do so. You will probably get more out of the book than most if you do.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Okay thanks

[–]simbarlionRed Beret0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Turn the negative attitude positive and you're good.

And turn down the heat don't snuff the fire completely.

If you haven't butted up against wns you're not trying hard enough. He is like the hall monitor haha. Or maybe that cop with the mo and the aviators .

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Turn the negative attitude positive and you're good.

I am doing a much better job of that now with my medication. Before I would just have an endless flow of negative thoughts for one issue.

I am still having these negative thoughts but now other me is able to say STOP and it just happens. Before it could have gone on for hours.

If you haven't butted up against wns you're not trying hard enough. He is like the hall monitor haha. Or maybe that cop with the mo and the aviators .

That was who I butted up against but it was stupid. I'm the steak vs spaghetti guy. lmao

[–]simbarlionRed Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

What do you have to take meds for?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I don’t have to take meds. I’m choosing to.

I’m taking an antidepressant that helps curb anger issues. My therapist requires it for CBT.

[–]2235520 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

My suggestion would be to not go for couples counselling (yet...), right now you are gradually becoming more self-aware of your own weaknesses. You are only now beginning to work on yourself. You need to fix your issues, and work on your frame. Without these things, couple counselling will not go well at all... Tell your wife you need to work on other things first, and revisit the idea in 6/12 months.

Over time you will know if you need couple counselling, however, most people here (including myself) found couple counselling useless.

[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

This post started out amazingly and ended terribly. You were on the right track. What happened?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Could you explain more?

[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Your post started with you being introspective. Enlightened even. I'd keep going with that train of thought and see where it takes you. I don't even see the connection to the second half where your wife wants something from you. Focus on what you need from you right now.

Edit: looks like you came to that conclusion yourself, just read your update.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Well, the second part was the real question. I just needed to give a back story and I'm glad I did. Most people in here saw that I have a victim mentality and this is why I am so angry for no reason. Another poster told me that the world is out to get me and I think for the most part that is true, but I think I might exaggerate it. I think I take that philosophy to the extreme and it causes me a lot of unnecessary pain each and every day. I think there's got to be a healthy balance of knowing the world isn't here to do us any favors but at the same time it isn't conspiring against us.

[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You're missing my point. You have so many questions to answer for yourself that your question about couples counseling is irrelevant.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

well, there's a lot of issues there.

My advice:

1) Do you have kids? If not, don't have any yet. Your W has some anger issues with you - big ones. For a wife to say if she had known you weren't a Christian she would not have married you is a huge red flag. This indicates she has some serious regrets marrying you, and might be considering leaving you.

2) You should do separate therapy, in my opinion. You're doing well in therapy on your own. If she wants therapy, she should go on her own.

When a wife is pushing hard for couples therapy, most of the time what she wants is a therapist to validate her and help her gang up on you. A wife pressing for couples therapy almost never is willing to say "hey, I know I have shit I need to work on too". She's saying "I want to tell the therapist all the things wrong with you so he will help me change you into what I think you should be so I can control you and run the relationship".

Couples therapy is usually her gathering the evidence she wants/needs for the upcoming divorce proceedings.

[–]djxput0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Its weird but you remind me of my wife in some ways ... Her mom was pretty abusive to her also so maybe this is why she acts this way ... but to be honest from her partners perspective - its getting old.

As far as couples counseling; you dont want to do it and why? Is it because you dont feel you need to change or improve or only the way you want too? That may be the case but then again she might get sick of it and leave.

Dont get all bent out of shape about couples counseling ... it might even help.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I apologize for not replying sooner. I usually don't check post replies after a few days since I don't make many posts.

Its weird but you remind me of my wife in some ways ... Her mom was pretty abusive to her also so maybe this is why she acts this way ... but to be honest from her partners perspective - its getting old.

I have heard this from my wife before. Thankfully, I have not heard it since I started my treatment but I have definitely heard it more than once. It's not excusable and I don't know your wife's history but if she's putting in effort to change I'd give her a chance. If I was just some self-loathing victim who never attempted to change anything in his life I'd understand why she'd leave me.

As far as couples counseling; you dont want to do it and why? Is it because you dont feel you need to change or improve or only the way you want too? That may be the case but then again she might get sick of it and leave.

I don't want to do couple counseling because it's clear that the issue is me. I am a victim of my life and I can't lead my wife like this. There's no doubt in my mind that if I go to a counselor again, I've been for marriage enrichment, they will say all the usual BP shit that doesn't work. What works is not being a whiney bitch, not getting butt hurt, and not being a fucking kill joy. I am all of those things and that's why my wife is upset with me.

I told my wife that I would do couples counseling after my personal therapy if I thought there would be a need. I am two weeks in, which isn't long, but I have drastically changed. I have had only two or three acts of outrage, which were really controlled in my opinion. Like I said to others though. I don't know if my wife will leave me but that doesn't matter. The stay plan is the go plan. I've got to fix me before I can fix us.

[–]SBIIIRed Fucking Commando-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy

Who unbanned this fucker?

[–]creating_my_life1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

He's trying. Many of us were there once. I hope he really reads the conversation and internalizes the meaning.

He's still fighting it, though. Maybe he'll get there, maybe he won't.

[–]weakandsensitive0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I don't think anyone gets banned from askMRP - except for Steve. Don't be Steve.

When you go dumpster fire dumping, you should know what to expect.

Also - for the record, since I went to check - I banned and unbanned OP within 24 hours for some reason.



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