Wife wants to do couples counseling.

SorcererKing · 2018-09-07T16:32:08+00:00

It was uncalled for and you were a catalyst to help me see the many faults in my life.

We could do with more of this and less ego. Everyone take note.

Edit: It wasn't me, btw. Odds are better than even it was WNS.

justpickanyusername · 2018-09-07T16:46:31+00:00

The issue I am having now is that when I ~~express myself~~ whine, particularly a complaint, my wife gets upset and then I feel guilty for ~~expressing myself~~ whining. Last week I went hiking and due to a bridge having collapsed I had to take my shoes off and walk in a river. I accidentally smashed my foot on a rock and ~~with a good attitude~~ like a little girl ~~expressed~~ whined how it hurt. My wife told me that it wouldn’t have happened if I watched where I was going.

I'm not sure you realize how far you need to come to turn yourself around here. Part of what opened my eyes when swallowing the pill was that I was in command of more than I thought I was. I picked out one paragraph, but your whole post is one big whining puke without the stubbing your toe story. If you stub your toe, take it like a man and not a little bitch. She tested your masculinity and you failed miserably. Pussy confirmed.

I don't think there is any harm in evaluating the road that brought you to where you are. The behavioral psychologist did this with you. My biggest issue is that you can easily use it as a crutch and take on a victim mentality (which I can see you already do a lot).

You are in control of your life. Nobody else is in control but you. Address your issues, but realize that nothing is holding you back but yourself.

2ndal · 2018-09-07T16:30:54+00:00

I don’t like who I am.

See anything interesting about this phrase? You don't like who you are. There are two different instances of You. There is the you who recognizes there is some other you that is not the real you.

This is good news - you are self aware. You are aware that you are not your actions, that inside there is a person and that person does things, positive and negative. The real you cannot be changed, but the actions you take (that you and others mistakenly think is the real you) can.

You're already on that path to changing your actions. See, you came here, recognized your faults, accepted them, and moved on. Great job. Keep doing that.

SorcererKing · 2018-09-07T16:37:33+00:00

I don’t know if any of you are like me but when you accidentally get hurt and then get told you should have been more careful, it’s a bit upsetting.

Would it be upsetting if your 3-year old said the same thing?

“Look I’m tired of expressing myself to you because whenever I do we fight so we’re just not going to talk.” I didn’t talk to her for three hours while we hiked and had lunch.

Better than getting mad, but still bitchy.

Perhaps that was autistic of me

Yep.

I don’t think it’s fair

No goddamn frame.

I feel guilty when I say no or for how I think.

If only there were a resource for that sort of thing, maybe we could put it on the MRP sidebar.

This came from the same woman who told me a few weeks ago that if she knew I wasn’t a believer that she would have never married me.

Chad isn't a believer. Your wife would fuck Chad. Interesting, isn't it?

I’m digging through some real traumatic shit right now and I’m even on an antidepressanf.

It is for guys like you that we so often say: STFU.

RuleZeroDAD · 2018-09-07T16:59:45+00:00

Now by "Couple's Counselling" you mean with a Church authority? Or do you mean with an actual therapist? If the latter, have your current therapist be in charge of the treatment, or use it as an excuse to avoid group treatment while you are dealing directly with your own issues.

Establish your frame here. She is trying to sabotage your own treatment by shaming and inserting "Jesus Saves" into something personal and hurtful to you.

It's time to put the oxygen mask on yourself first while the cabin depressurizes in the plane, because you, Napoleon, can't let this inferiority complex ruin your life, regardless of what the Church elders and Mrs. High-and-mighty think.

So what if you got married in the Church to fuck your wife. You won't be the last either.

But dude, you are tiny, with a fragile ego to match. Get the INDIVIDUAL therapy to get over your impotent rage, lift to get attractive, and STFU until the effects of those actions brings a smirk to your face.

helaughsinhidden · 2018-09-07T17:52:03+00:00

I’m that guy you cut in front of who gets blood red, flashes his lights at you and gives you the finger. Hello.

I used to lose my shit all the time and almost never. Realize a couple things about anger.

#1. No one cares if you are angry. The person who cut you off doesn't know you. People aren't conspiring to harm you. The world is just a broken place where messed up things happen all the time. Reacting with humility, forgiveness, and grace is what Jesus did and teaches, so when your wife says she wishes you were a believer, that's probably a huge part of what she means but isn't sure how to express it without you getting butt hurt.

#2. It doesn't really get you what you want. Think about how many times people have lost their shit on you. How many times did you literally or figuratively tell that person to fuck off or decide to cut them out of your life at least for a little while. Even if you gave them the desired "thing" that they were demanding, it came at a great cost. This is how the world sees your anger too. Each time you yell at your wife, give sarcastic comments, glare at her, or talk to her as if you think she is a bitch, it absolutely has a quantifiable cost. Don't believe me? Hang out in r/DeadBedrooms for a while. I used to lose a ton of money getting mad while playing poker in casinos too, but I digress.

#3. Anger isn't a real feeling or emotion. Don't get me wrong, you can feel pain, disappointment, fear, anxiety, rejection, embarrassment, or a wide range or feelings, but anger is not one of those pure emotions. Anger is a defensive mechanism that people use to mask what they are feeling, punish people we think are attacking us, and to harness our fight or flight response. It is the result a decision you made in the moment instead of using a different coping mechanism. To be honest, the comments people make that anger you like your wife telling you to be careful, isn't meant to harm you. See how you assumed she meant to call you stupid, which you decided was an insult, then decided she should be punished with attitude that included mean words, unloving tone, and an increased volume meant to intimidate and punish her for her disrespect. Something I had to learn is even if they are trying to piss you off, they can't do it without my permission. Also, it is a display of weakness.

#4. Gaming your wife and passing shit tests requires you to lose your anger. Every woman is going to shit test. Mostly for me, she says little disrespectful comments that take small, but noticeable jabs at me. Could be intelligence, dutifulness, intentions, comparison, bringing up old beta behavior, etc. It is all MEANT to hurt you in a small way that is hard to call them out on, but could incite you to anger. If you give into the anger, you lose the test, plain and simple. It shows you aren't a fit mate in a small measurable way, hence her desire for counseling.

In your story of hurting your foot, you ALMOST passed it. If you would have simply STFU, you would have got a "C", passing but only by a little. Instead you verbally complained saying “Look I’m tired of expressing myself to you because whenever I do we fight so we’re just not going to talk.”. You pouted like a weak victim and then didn't STFU, but "stonewalled" as a form of punishment. STFU means you don't say anything at all to punish or react. Even better would have been something like "My bad, I was picturing you giving me head on the other side behind those trees and I just didn't see it. Let's talk about it over there".

See how you can CHOOSE to let shit slide and go directly into gaming her instead?

Persaeus · 2018-09-07T16:35:43+00:00

“Look I’m tired of expressing myself to you because whenever I do we fight so we’re just not going to talk.”

the key to successful STFU is not talking; including about how you're not going to talk. in this way, her hamster is able to spin freely.

This came from the same woman who told me a few weeks ago that if she knew I wasn’t a believer that she would have never married me.

do you believe in jesus or not? see you're so naturally passive agressive; i can't tell.

if you don't want to; you're answer to her request for couples counseling is "no". if she ask why; the answer is "i don't want to" or if you have to DEER a little "i'm working on my own problems". if she persist, just broken record (repeat yourself).

read WISNIFG, again if you already did

LIFT; you're weak as fuck

lololasaurus · 2018-09-07T17:05:37+00:00

Fair? The fair is a place you go to eat cotton candy.

Life isn't fair. Nothing is fair.

Good job taking responsibility for your attitude though.

As for the believer thing, that's hard. For us I'm the believer who thought I married a believer and she abandoned the faith. I empathize with your wife if it's something she's serious about. But at the same time if you don't believe, you don't believe, that's just what it is.

That's hard. Anyway, life's not fair there either.

Rian_Stone · 2018-09-07T17:21:20+00:00

Didn't read your puke, but realize, thisis probably for 2 reason:

build a consensus that you're a bag of shit, a second person to pile on
so she can say 'I tried eeverything' before she leaves you.

Neither one is for your benefit

weakandsensitive · 2018-09-07T18:33:52+00:00

My wife told me that it wouldn’t have happened if I watched where I was going.

She stated the obvious.

I don’t know if any of you are like me but when you accidentally get hurt and then get told you should have been more careful, it’s a bit upsetting.

You chose to get butthurt.

Weak men and the shit they do. Nothing surprising.

Follow up reading which you might find interesting. It's on you to figure out how the follow up link relates to your situation though.

red-sfpplus · 2018-09-07T18:57:02+00:00

Deadlifts start at 135 pounds, which is roughly equivalent to 0 pounds.

Father Dom Mazetti

rocknrollchuck · 2018-09-07T17:47:10+00:00

This led me to get into contact with a cognitive behavioral psychologist and I have had two really productive sessions so far.

This is good, I would continue this.

The issue I am having now is that when I express myself, particularly a complaint, my wife gets upset and then I feel guilty for expressing myself. Last week I went hiking and due to a bridge having collapsed I had to take my shoes off and walk in a river. I accidentally smashed my foot on a rock and with a good attitude expressed how it hurt. My wife told me that it wouldn’t have happened if I watched where I was going.

That's typical for a woman who doesn't respect you.

I don’t know if any of you are like me but when you accidentally get hurt and then get told you should have been more careful, it’s a bit upsetting. To further connect with what I’m saying, I am thinking that this type of behavior happens a lot with her. I get mad because she says these things and it sets me off.

This is a victim statement. Be honest: she says these things and you choose to get angry. Anger is ALWAYS a choice. Part of establishing frame is controlling your own emotions. Have you read Walking On Eggshells?

“Look I’m tired of expressing myself to you because whenever I do we fight so we’re just not going to talk.” I didn’t talk to her for three hours while we hiked and had lunch. Perhaps that was autistic of me but I was fired up.

Yes this was autistic. It shows that you have no idea how to handle responding to her, which is a huge DLV.

I was also criticized for going to therapy and told that if I just opened up my heart to Jesus that everything would be okay. This came from the same woman who told me a few weeks ago that if she knew I wasn’t a believer that she would have never married me. Ouch.

Okay, I'm a Christian so let me share a perspective you may not have considered about all this: she may be upset with herself because she did not vet you properly before marriage. Christians are supposed to marry Christians, it's called being equally yoked. But what is done is done, and she's handling it improperly. So here's what you do: use what the Bible says to convict HER of her need to change. 1 Peter 3:1-2 has this to say:

Wives, in the same way submit yourselves to your own husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, 2 when they see the purity and reverence of your lives.

THIS is what she is supposed to be doing, submitting to you without a word. Not criticizing. Not dragging you to couples counseling. Not nagging. So remind her of this. Quote those two verses to her word-for-word. Call her on it. She's a Christian? Then she should act like it, and obey what the Bible says. She can't have it both ways. The caveat here is that if she actually starts doing what the Bible says, you just might feel differently about the whole thing...

hystericalbonding · 2018-09-07T18:14:03+00:00

It's obvious that you haven't read WISNIFG. Read the sidebar prerequisites.

My wife told me that it wouldn’t have happened if I watched where I was going.

Shit test. Cocky, funny, AA, AM, etc.

Squat - 180 Bench - 90 Row - 110 OP - 60 DL - 90

After 5 months of Stronglifts. No, not Stronglifts, but your own modification of it based on your obvious expertise in the weight room.

How do you even set up for a 90lbs deadlift? Just pulling your back flat and lats tight would lift the weight off the floor.

How can your deadlift be less than your row? You're either horribly cheating rows, or you're a chicken shit on deadlift. At 90lbs, you're better off doing slow RDL's until you can figure out how to move.

Take video, submit form check to a lifting sub, and then decide if you're going to fire your trainer.

do you think it’s reasonable for me to do both of these?

Couples therapy for a guy with no frame is a big gamble.

Two_kids_in_a_coat · 2018-09-07T20:31:13+00:00

How can your row be higher then your deadlift?

[deleted] · 2018-09-07T17:35:06+00:00

I can identify with this a little since I went through some similar stuff a decade ago. The reason you keep hearing STFU in the responses is that it's an excellent strategy. You know that quote "Better to keep you mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it an remove all doubt."? Yeah, that's STFU.

Also, in therapy the basic idea is to communicate lots so your therapist can see what your thought patterns are and help challenge the ones that are off. That belongs in counseling sessions behind closed doors, not in front of your wife. And as another guy asked, I hope this is a real certified counselor not some bullshit church dude who's just interested in pushing some other agenda and dysfunctional strategies on you.

> I don’t know if any of you are like me but when you accidentally get hurt and then get told you should have been more careful, it’s a bit upsetting.

OK, this is actually really key. Your statement of "it's a bit upsetting" presupposes that it HAS to be that way. But what's actually happening is that her remark is being filtered in your mind against all of your pre-existing beliefs, your ego, your wants and desires, bounces up on your emotional reactivity, and then "you" create the statement "it's upsetting". What the guys are saying is that as you work through the layers of conditioning through CBT, practice, and experience, that conclusion will eventually not arise in the same way, won't feel inevitable. You may not see it or feel the possibility yet because it sounds like you're right in the thick of things with therapy, but that's OK.

Good news is that you're able to reflect and look back and honestly evaluate your mistakes and hopefully learn from them to slowly improve your outlook and responses. Some guys are all ego or have areas they're just not willing to look at.

creating_my_life · 2018-09-07T17:37:28+00:00

Nobody has mentioned the 1000' rope here. You have a LONG history of a being an angry, whiney little bitch that people hate.

Great, you've seen the light and decided to change. Those around you, those know you best, and MOST OF ALL your wife, will be the SLOWEST to accept that your changes are real and permanent.

Of course she's going to get VERY defensive against your old self. And, truthfully, MOST people who say they're going to change never do and continue to be their whiney bitchey old selves.

You will need MANY MONTHS AND YEARS of consistently non-negative you in order for your wife to stop being so damn defensive.

This is why we say STFU.

Also, perhaps your wife was co-dependent on the negative you in some way. Maybe the positive you won't be a good match for you. Tip: don't have kids any time soon.

Normally I disagree with ANY counseling, but you seem pretty fucked up in the head in the way that counseling seems to help. IF YOU DO go down that path, avoid the church shit at all costs.

RedPillCoach · 2018-09-07T19:11:35+00:00

I like this post. It is a decent example of owning your shit, or at least a very Blue Pill guy moving in the right direction.

I’m that guy who gets defensive for absolutely no reason and thinks the world is out to get him. Hey.

You missed the boat there brah. There is absolutely a reason for you getting defensive and I would try to find it. Also...pro tip: The fucking world IS out to get you! Own it.

After screaming, crying and screaming again all in the span of half an our on the way to work I decided to say enough is enough. I reached my tipping point.

Well that didn't take much. Not even a gun in your mouth. This is patty cake.

the reason why I am so defensive and twisted is due...….

How did I know there was a reason? Therapy does this to people and let's you spin all kinds of excuses for past behavior. The nice thing about coaching is we focus on the future. Yah, you were bullied in the past. Maybe you need to work it out in therapy first and spew it all over the place- but when you are ready to move forward give me a jingle:

coaching4men.com

when I express myself, particularly a complaint, my wife gets upset and then I feel guilty for expressing myself.

I can see we have a lot of work to do but we also have a lot to work with.

First, what is a "complaint?" Bitching and whining like a woman is not good leadership. Leadership is taking care of the problem without complaining. That may include instructing the wife or others to take action to resolve the problem. Where does a "complaint" enter this picture?

Second, wife gets upset. So what?

Third, I feel guilty. Why? What would it look like to let go of the guilt and not care if your wife is upset. Sure you are aware and perhaps you are even concerned (or amused) about your wife's emotions...but how would it be if you didn't think it was a big deal? What if you let her negative emotions roll off you like water off a duck's back?

RedPillCoach · 2018-09-07T19:34:41+00:00

Individual counseling for you (who needs it) and for her if she needs it, but what good can possibly come of couple's counseling?

if she knew I wasn't a believer she would never have married me

Your marriage is far more fragile than you realize. Rian Stone is right (usually). Christians are specically authorized to divorce non-believers.

Also, your lifting numbers are incrediblely pathetic. Get your T checked ASAP and get to work. I don't care if you are depressed. Lift the damn iron.

Code-Master13 · 2018-09-07T19:37:50+00:00

I'm not a master myself, but I've been where you are (in regards to your wife's response to your toe.). My wife used to say things like that to me all the time. I would respond in one of two ways, I'd crack a joking/sarcastic response about how helpful that information would be, and if only I'd had it before it happened. Sometimes she'd get mad, other times she'd laugh and continue with the joke. Probably depended on my delivery and genuine attitude at the time.

The other way I responded was not to complain. When I did something dumb, and hurt myself, I kept it to myself. If she happened to notice I was hurt and asked, I'd reply with a way of taking responsibility "I wasn't paying close enough attention, and kicked my finger", "I pushed to hard on my run and pulled my hamstring", "I wasn't paying close enough attention and stubbed my toe", etc...

Guess which method worked better? The 2nd one. In that response, I didn't complain, I just took responsibility, which takes away that response that urkes us so much. If you don't want your wife giving you the mother treatment, then you need to "Own Your Shit". Don't go running to her and expect sympathy.

When I started doing option 2, she all of a sudden would give me the sympathy I no longer cared about ironically enough.

You've got a lot to work through, as many of us in this sub do. You're aware, which is good, you're being humble, which is also good. Keep working, keep lifting, become internally validated, not externally validated and things will fall into place.

That's really what TPR/MRP breaks down to. When you're ok with yourself, it won't matter what else is going on outside of you.

DeplorableRay · 2018-09-07T23:57:28+00:00

I wish I had more to offer than sidebar/lift.

I will add however, that my (not teenage yet) son and my wife have a stronger dead lift than you.

I'd tell you not to take that personally, but after reading your post, I'm sure you will anyways.

BobbyPeru · 2018-09-08T03:20:54+00:00

Couples counseling is usually heavily weighted towards the woman . Don’t do it.

Suggest you both do individual counseling instead. Find a RP man for yourself.

mindfulbutgutless · 2018-09-07T17:30:18+00:00

Where are you on the side bar reading? You sound like you need a double dose of NMMNG and WISNIFG.

My wife told me that it wouldn’t have happened if I watched where I was going.

The truth fucking stings, especially when you already know it.

I was also criticized for going to therapy and told that if I just opened up my heart to Jesus that everything would be okay.

Because of this I really think u/Rian_Stone hit the nail on the head with option 2.

so she can say 'I tried eeverything' before she leaves you.

simbarlion · 2018-09-07T21:56:34+00:00

Turn the negative attitude positive and you're good.

And turn down the heat don't snuff the fire completely.

If you haven't butted up against wns you're not trying hard enough. He is like the hall monitor haha. Or maybe that cop with the mo and the aviators .

223552 · 2018-09-08T02:49:08+00:00

My suggestion would be to not go for couples counselling (yet...), right now you are gradually becoming more self-aware of your own weaknesses. You are only now beginning to work on yourself. You need to fix your issues, and work on your frame. Without these things, couple counselling will not go well at all... Tell your wife you need to work on other things first, and revisit the idea in 6/12 months.

Over time you will know if you need couple counselling, however, most people here (including myself) found couple counselling useless.

donedreadpirate · 2018-09-08T09:13:25+00:00

This post started out amazingly and ended terribly. You were on the right track. What happened?

[deleted] · 2018-09-10T21:44:38+00:00

well, there's a lot of issues there.

My advice:

1) Do you have kids? If not, don't have any yet. Your W has some anger issues with you - big ones. For a wife to say if she had known you weren't a Christian she would not have married you is a huge red flag. This indicates she has some serious regrets marrying you, and might be considering leaving you.

2) You should do separate therapy, in my opinion. You're doing well in therapy on your own. If she wants therapy, she should go on her own.

When a wife is pushing hard for couples therapy, most of the time what she wants is a therapist to validate her and help her gang up on you. A wife pressing for couples therapy almost never is willing to say "hey, I know I have shit I need to work on too". She's saying "I want to tell the therapist all the things wrong with you so he will help me change you into what I think you should be so I can control you and run the relationship".

Couples therapy is usually her gathering the evidence she wants/needs for the upcoming divorce proceedings.

djxput · 2018-09-19T08:35:41+00:00

Its weird but you remind me of my wife in some ways ... Her mom was pretty abusive to her also so maybe this is why she acts this way ... but to be honest from her partners perspective - its getting old.

As far as couples counseling; you dont want to do it and why? Is it because you dont feel you need to change or improve or only the way you want too? That may be the case but then again she might get sick of it and leave.

Dont get all bent out of shape about couples counseling ... it might even help.

SBIII · 2018-09-07T19:11:50+00:00

Who unbanned this fucker?

Title	Wife wants to do couples counseling.
Author	yesbuthereswhy
Upvotes	6
Comments	109
Date	September 7, 2018 4:22 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/askMRP
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/9dvx5a/wife_wants_to_do_couples_counseling/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/askMRP/wife-wants-to-do-couples-counseling.204047 https://theredarchive.com/post/204047