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Balancing initiating vs bad sex vs withdraw time/presence

by MRPn00bee | August 01, 2018 | askMRP

17 upvotes

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Quick stats: DL5, 205lbs, 16% bf, 290 squat, 275 BP, 345DL. Working on MAP and finished sidebar required reading, currently doing round 2.

For the last 2 months I’ve been initiating whenever I wanted usually during the day. I’m getting a good success rate about 80%. When I’m turned down I go about my day, learned not to initiate at bedtime so I can go do something else.

When I’m turned down, it’s usually some variant of “my mind is busy, I’m tired, etc.” Sometimes she would initiate later at bedtime as she knows I wanted some during the day. I kino and game her all the time from the moment we wake up, not with sex in mind but because I enjoy touching her and it’s fun.

Here’s my problem: 4/5 times it still “feels” like duty/starfish. Her eyes are shut, sometimes tells me her vagina is “shy” and needs to warm up to me (womaneze for I’m not ready for you), and she’s usually dry I have to use lube. She still doesn’t blow me unless I stick it in her face when I want it and she obliges (half heartedly but whatever). I’ve cavemaned her several times when I get the starfish vibe, she seems to be ok with it. However I am not anymore. And quite frankly I’d rather go to sleep/do something else than have sex with someone who’s not attracted to me. The one time I pulled out, ended it and said this is not working for me, I was hit with comfort tests up the yin yang for next three days. The sex that followed was no different.

How do I balance “always initiate” with “say no to bad sex” and “don’t punish good behaviour”? I mean she is complying to my initiation, so that’s a plus. It’s gets more tricky when she initiates but the ensuing sex is bad.

EDIT: Cut the shit

• Write down your stats (height, weight, bf%, lifts). You are keeping a journal of your workouts right?

5’9 205lbs, 43 yo, 16% bf, 5x5: Squat 290, Benchpress 275, Deadlift 345, OHP 135, BB row 175 

• Write down all the books you have read in the sidebar and one sentence about what you learned from each one (even if you haven't finished it yet). What was your main takeaway from the other erroneous material referenced in TRP sidebar and here?

⁃ NMMNG: Its ok to have needs, and I am responsible for meeting them. Kill the covert contracts

⁃ WISNIFG: I don’t need to explain myself and I owe nothing to others, learned new techniques

⁃ MMSLP: Don’t be complacent with your wife, just coz you’re married doesn’t mean the fun has to stop

⁃ Rational Male, Year One: Killed a lots of beta ideas, like women are equal, observe what she does not what she says, women want sex. True eye opener

⁃ Saving a low sex marriage: you need dread to keep the fire stoked, total fail on my side (beta me)

⁃ MAP (still reading): didn’t really find much meat in this one, I was already doing most of the green and stopped the reds, building a plan, etc. so.. meh

⁃ Sex God method (still reading): Need to be more dominant & immersive, get out of my head

⁃ Preventive Medicine: It’s never too late to start acting like a man with options

⁃ Subtle art of not giving a fuck: life’s too short, don’t take things too seriously and only give a fuck when it really counts

⁃ 48 Laws of Power (still reading): learn how to get others to do what you want

• Get your testosterone levels checked and write them down

563, doc said normal - within standard deviation for my age group. 

• Write down your ratio of sexual initiations/rejections

80% success 

• Write down the number of women besides your wife you could call right now to chill this weekend

3 

• Shit, write down the name of the last girl you flirted with who isn't your wife

Sarah 

• Write down how many days over the past 15 you have actively gamed your wife

13 

• Write down two things you do that make you a good catch

Engage in meaningful conversations, charismatic personality. People want to be around me 

• Write down what you would do today if you did not have a wife/kids to go home to

Workout, get together with friends for dinner, meet new people. 

• Write down what Dread Level you are on

5  

• Write down how many more months you have to go until you are an attractive man with options

15, but quite frankly I can pursue other options right now if I so wish to choose. 

Post Information
Title Balancing initiating vs bad sex vs withdraw time/presence
Author MRPn00bee
Upvotes 17
Comments 37
Date 01 August 2018 01:14 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/204138
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/93ouo3/balancing_initiating_vs_bad_sex_vs_withdraw/
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Comments

[–]justpickanyusernameRed Beret24 points25 points  (2 children) | Copy

You know how you say you would rather sleep/do something else than have sex with someone that is not attracted to you. Well, she would rather sleep/do something else than have sex with someone she is not attracted to.

Edit: The point being, you can’t demand enthusiasm until you are worth it. Right now, you are asking five star pricing for one, two, or maybe three star accommodations.

[–]ParaXilo8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

Damn. Needed to hear this myself. Back to the sidebar for me.

[–]MRPn00bee[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Good point.

[–]Reach180Red Beret22 points23 points  (0 children) | Copy

quite frankly I’d rather go to sleep/do something else than have sex with someone who’s not attracted to me.

Translation: "Sex isn't validating me like I want it to"

Look...you've set the expectation that you're a weak loser and a bad lay. So, no wonder she's not into it. You've got some work to do before she figures out that she's not fucking that same weak loser.

Each time you act disappointed, walk away, etc., you ingrain in your wife's brain that sex is this big thing, and she needs to perform even if she isn't feeling it. It puts pressure on her, and that's not fun for most women. Her body wants to fuck Alpha Chad, and instead she's stuck here needing to act a certain way with her legs in the air so that Beta Brad doesn't go sulking again.

If you want to have a good sex life, you need to establish that sex isn't that big of a deal. You get together and you fuck, and sometimes it's great, sometimes it's just you getting off. Whatever. If it's not perfect this time, there'll be a next time soon enough. It takes the pressure off. Chad isn't looking for a woman to perform...he just wants to fuck.

Also, fuck her good. Pin her arms back. Smush her face into the mattress. Don't be self conscious that she's not into it. Get what you came for, tell her "Good Girl", put some shorts on and go on with your day. Chad is oblivious to how "Into it" she is.

YMMV on this, but when you're gaming her, do it from the stand point that she wants to fuck you. I talk to my wife like she's a nymphomaniac, and that I can barely keep up with her libido. Even if she's said no multiple days in a row, I frame it as her not getting the dick she needs. Seems to work pretty well. Approach her with that irrational self confidence that even when she tells you she doesn't want to fuck you, you know she actually does want to fuck you.

[–]cholomiteMod / BP Downvote Magnet9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

Tease her a little and challenge her to expand her horizons and try a little harder. Make her aware that you have a standard for quality sex, but don't say it outright or try to negotiate attraction. This is on you at the end of the day, you're just not bringing out her inner slut, whether it's due to lack of attraction or weak game.

I would keep it light and flirty and playful. Act like a guy who gets laid all the time and just wants to mess around and have fun. If she bores you, kiss her, smack her ass and leave. If you want to keep messing around, tell her she needs to practice, or that you'll show her some moves or what you like. A lot of times women know what guys like, but don't do it unless the guy is confident enough to express it and talk about it out in the open. Act like blow jobs are just a part of life, like death and taxes. You'll help her get better at them, and have fun along the way. Also don't be afraid to boss her around and tell her what to do. The more confident you are in controlling the situation while also being outcome independent, the more fun she will have and you will reap the benefits.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (4 children) | Copy

First off, you need to edit your post and provide more information than your "quick stats." Your responsibility, as a poster who is asking for assistance, is to provide the relevant information so we don't have to search through your post/comment history like fucking pigs foraging for truffles.

There's currently only one stickied post on this sub, entitled Cut the Shit. It's at the very top of the page in green lettering, and it provides eleven bullet points of information you are expected to include in your post. Your "quick stats" respond to only one of the eleven bullet points. I think it's safe to assume that responses to your question are gong to be similarly abbreviated, as we will generally assume that you're incapable of following simple instructions, too lazy to spend five minutes providing the relevant information, or a combination of the the two.

Because I'm in a good mood this morning, I'm going to get you started, by filling in the information I have discovered through reviewing your post/comment history.

CUT THE SHIT

  • Write down your stats (height, weight, bf%, lifts).

From your post today: 205lbs, 16% bf, 290 squat, 275 BP, 345DL.

Missing information: height.

  • Write down all the books you have read in the sidebar and one sentence about what you learned from each one (even if you haven't finished it yet). What was your main takeaway from the other erroneous material referenced in TRP sidebar and here?

From your post two months ago you claimed to have been on your second read of NMMNG, WISNIFG, and MMSLP, and on your first read of TRM. In your post today, you claim to have "finished sidebar required reading, currently doing round 2." I'm calling bullshit, but would be happy for you to prove me wrong. List each book you've read, and one sentence about what you learned from each book.

  • Get your testosterone levels checked and write them down.

No evidence that you've been tested.

  • Write down your ratio of sexual initiations/rejections.

From your post today: 80% success rate over the past 2 months.

  • Write down the number of women besides your wife you could call right now to chill this weekend.

No evidence in your post/comment history to suggest that you could call any woman other than your wife to chill this weekend. Update as appropriate.

  • Shit, write down the name of the last girl you flirted with who isn't your wife.

No evidence in your post/comment history that you have flirted with any woman other than your wife. Update as appropriate.

  • Write down how many days over the past 15 you have actively gamed your wife.

From your post today: "I kino and game her all the time from the moment we wake up, not with sex in mind but because I enjoy touching her and it’s fun."

What's with the unnecessary gay qualifier at the end? Kino and game are, by design, to be performed with sex in mind. I'm calling bullshit on this one ... or, more likely, your kino and game techniques are shit. Provide details on what you are specifically doing when you "kino and game her all the time."

  • Write down two things you do that make you a good catch.

No evidence in your post/comment history that you are a good catch. Update as appropriate.

  • Write down what you would do today if you did not have a wife/kids to go home to.

No evidence of this in your post/comment history. Update as appropriate.

  • Write down what Dread Level you are on.

From your post today: DL5. I'm guessing you assume you're on DL5 simply because you're 5 months into swallowing the pill. Provide specific information (one sentence per dread level) summarizing your dread activities for each level.

  • Write down how many more months you have to go until you are an attractive man with options.

From your post 2 months ago I learned that you have been married 19 years, and you found MRP approximately 5 months ago. Using 1 month per beta year of marriage, you have a minimum of 14 months before you're unfucked.

Now that I've wasted 30 minutes cleaning up your post, I can finally respond to the call of your question.

How do I balance “always initiate” with “say no to bad sex” and “don’t punish good behaviour”?

I don't know where you got the idea that you are supposed to "always initiate." You should always be gaming, but that's different than always initiating. You're five months into your journey, with a minimum of 14 months before you're unfucked. Your wife still probably sees you in much the same way as she has the past 19 years ... unattractive.

You're probably not to the point where you can "say no to bad sex" ... at least not consistently. Go back to your first post and re-read u/ReddJive's comment ... especially the part where he advised "You are no where near close to being able to say....yeah I am not going to do this because she is no longer worth it or she isn't bringing anything to the table. There is a fine line between doing it because you should and just not wanting to give your attention to that bitch any more. yet you are not near there and she is still in the game...."

Bro, you're 5 months into your MAP, with a 19 year history of faggotry. Bad sex is frankly all you deserve at this point. The good news is that she's at least willing to give you starfish/duty sex 8/10 times that you initiate, which suggests she's not 100% repulsed by you. "Be attractive, don't be unattractive" means more than just improving your physical SMV. You have to kill all of your unattractive traits, which is actually more difficult than simply losing weight, dropping BF%, dressing better, improving grooming, etc. It requires you to fucking work. Every goddamn day. You've never posted on the weekly OYS thread, which tells me you still have a shit ton of unattractive traits you're not yet ready to kill.

Kill your fucking ego and take a fearless inventory of your life. Identify every unattractive trait you can think of, and then plan how you are going to kill them. Update your MAP with this information, and post your progress on the OYS thread.

8/10 of your initiations are successful, but you're only having quality sex 20% of the time. Eyes shut and a "shy" pussy that is as dry as the Gobi Desert are clear signs of a lack of attraction. You're probably not a bad looking guy, as you're apparently getting IOIs. But that doesn't mean you're not unattractive.

That you are closing in on 20 years and have a "familiarity factor" are irrelevant. I'm 16 years married and getting pornstar sex on demand, but I'm also 2 years into my MRP journey, not 5 months. This is a long fucking game, and there are no shortcuts. You'll eventually get the sex you [think you] deserve, but not until you've earned it. [Formatting edit]

[–]MRPn00bee[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

You weren't kidding about the good mood bro. Updated.

"Be attractive, don't be unattractive"

I think this is what I need to focus on, figuring out WTF else I need to kill that's unattractive.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Thanks for the Cut the Shit edit ... it provides a clearer picture of you and your particular circumstances. Overall it looks like you're on the right path, although I'm curious to know how your wife has responded. How does your current 80% initiation success rate compare to 6 months or a year ago?

I think this is what I need to focus on, figuring out WTF else I need to kill that's unattractive.

This is where the real work takes place. Physical improvements are easy to see and easy to quantify. Killing unattractive beta traits is (in my experience) a lot harder, but provides an equal or greater payoff in the long run. The point is, you need both.

Sex God method (still reading): Need to be more dominant & immersive, get out of my head.

You need to finish this book ASAP and start incorporating DEVI ... especially during the 20% where she's NOT responding with starfish, closed eyes, etc. Dominance and Variety are 100% on you. Emotion and Immersion involve both of you, although it's your responsibility to introduce those elements.

It's amazing what a woman will do when she's turned on. My wife was historically a major prude who only wanted missionary vanilla sex, and only after I had given her an hour long massage, rubbed her feet, etc. Just the other day, she mentioned she digs things that would normally have been degrading/painful, etc. (e.g., hair pulling, spanking, finger in her asshole, etc.) but ONLY when she's turned on. DEVI unlocks that door.

SGM is an easy read that you should be able to finish in a day or two. Put it at the top of your list.

15, but quite frankly I can pursue other options right now if I so wish to choose.

FTFY. You seem to have a habit of adding an unnecessary explanation, which suggests DEERing is a major area for improvement. It's also one of my biggest weaknesses. I'm a lawyer and am damn good at my job. It's a constant struggle for me to remember to STFU and use the tools in WISNIFG. But when I do, the result is ALWAYS better than when I autistically argue for the sake of being "right." The Way of the Superior Man has helped me in this area more than any other resource.

Frankly, who gives a fuck if you could pursue other options, unless that's your ultimate goal. But at 5 months, you're still a child with dynamite and will likely just blow your dick off (speaking from experience). If your wife has been responding positively the changes you have made in DL 1-5, I'd suggest progressing naturally through the dread levels instead of skipping directly to DL 11, which is exactly what I did despite a compliant wife who was responding positively. It set me back several months when she eventually found out about the affair. If I could go back in time, I wouldn't do it again. Wasn't worth it. But that's just me.

[–]MRPn00bee[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Good points, especially on completing SGM. And yes, I see what you’re saying about DEERing, got work on that. Thanks for the warning re: going to DL11, certainly not looking to blow this up... at least not now. Good smack on the head, cheers.

[–]ChokingDownRPRed Beret4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

My wife is taking the kids to her mom's house a few hours away for a couple of nights. She spent all last evening packing, etc. I gamed her some, a little kino. She rubbed my bicep and without me flexing at all commented "Jesus, I can feel the definition while you're just standing there...mmmmm." Seemed like it was going to be on for later. As the evening wore on, it became evident that she was stressed and packing, so I went on about my business of playing with the kids and getting them ready for bed and reading to them.

As I was getting ready for bed, she said something like "if you're hoping to get some tonight since we're leaving in the morning, I'd be willing to do that if you make it quick." I instinctively started to close the bedroom door, then said "it doesn't sound like you want to"... she responded, "not exactly, but I will." I opened the door back up and said "I'd love to fuck you, but I don't fuck women that don't want it." I got a glass of water and came back to bed, gave her a goodnight kiss and an ass grab. She said "you know I usually get into it after we get going" I kissed her, but it just wasn't there, so I kissed her forehead, "i love you" and repositioned. Between then and this morning when I left for work, she (in a joking tone) said something about "other women" 3 times...all of which I ignored. I have a social outing tomorrow night, she asked who all would be there, etc...funny she's known about this for weeks and only asked now that she's going away and I turned down a pity fuck. I suppose that's dread at work.

I've probably turned her down for sex 2 times in 17 years...once I was feeling sick, and this time where I'm declining her allowing me to use her pussy to masturbate.

Not sure it was the textbook right play or not, but I'm not willing to fuck the starfish anymore.

[–]MRPn00bee[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

That’s good, let her hamster run. I like your response “I don’t fuck women that don’t want it” - solid.

I had a somewhat similar scenario the other day... escalated and initiated in the afternoon, she agreed but “it has to be a quickie”. Gave her a kiss, got the tight lipped treatment so I called it off. Said you don’t seem to be into it right now, which she agreed but said willing to have a quick one if I want. “No, that’s not going to work for me babe”... Kissed her on the forehead, and went about doing other stuff.

Later that evening I had a preplanned outing to sell some stuff, she knew about it but now was asking who am I meeting, guy or gal, how long I’d be gone. Etc... I kept it C&F and never answered her questions.

When I came back she was dying to know who I met. She started texting me from the other room saying I’m purposefully not sharing with her as a punishment for not having sex earlier. I can sense the dread and her hamster’s been running for while. I played AM and had a bit of fun with it.

When it was bedtime, she initiated and I thought great! Turned out starfish, despite my efforts to make it fun. That’s when I started wondering why am I even accepting that.

[–]ChokingDownRPRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I don't know, it's a fine line between communicating that I'm not willing to take subpar sex because I'm an alpha with abundance vs communicating that I don't want starfish sex because it doesn't provide the validation that my needy little beta ass needs from it. To be honest, I'm not sure which of those I communicated. I only know that I WILL kill the starfish!

[–]FeralRed2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

You're not getting her wet and horny anymore.

Whatever could that problem be? Fix that.

[–]CaptJohnLukeDiscard1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Are those weights your maxes or what do you 5 reps with? Why is your squat so low compared to your BP?

Most of the time, a guy with a high BP and a low squat is afraid of hard work. “Injured knees” or “I leg press dude” or some weak shit like that.

Unfortunately for those guys, that lack of mental toughness often shows up in more than just the weight room. Wives sense that shit and don’t respect it.

Maybe you need to squat more. Ass to grass, none of this quarter squat nonsense.

Edit- just in case you are autistic, I’m not saying if you do a full set of squats that your wife will cavewoman you. I’m saying that it could be you have a big case of pussy-it is in your character makeup.

[–]MRPn00bee[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Ah the joys of late night reddit.

My squats are full breaking parallel, none of that ass to grass shit. I had knee surgery last summer and rehab’s been a bitch. Used to squat 405 before that train got off the rails

[–]CaptJohnLukeDiscard1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

No worries then. Knee surgery myself in March so I get starting light. Onwards and upwards.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

I commented earlier, but deleted it since many have already said what I wanted to say.

But at 5'9 and 205lbs, I highly doubt your BF is at 16%. Are your abs visible? If not, make it so.

[–]MRPn00bee[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Abs not visible yet, bf% was measured by personal trainer using both impedance and skin fold measurements/calipers. I know it’s not perfect, but gives a good indicator of progress

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Abd are visible flexing at 15,visible without flexing at 10

[–]screechhaterRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Attraction is whole package.

Step back and examine your motives in direct correlation to your work. Is it to fuck her ? Or, be free ?



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