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[Update 3] Trial Separation, Frame, and Lawyers...

Reddit View
June 27, 2018

I wanted to provide an update since my wife decided she wants to do the "trial separation" aka "soft divorce".

First I want to thank everybody who as provided advice since I swallowed the pill in October. I have become aware of who I was, am and where I need to be. I have to say the me from a year ago would have been crying like a bitch. Damn hypergamy is a bitter truth.

As in my previous posts I was initially shocked by the delivery of the news but I had seen the red flags over the months; distancing herself, lack of communication, projection of insecurities; oh and the Chad.

I minimized calling her shit out because it would come from a place of weakness and insecurity like I have done in the past. It was pretty DGAF about it and STFU. Also deployed it is just a bad idea.

Since she dropped the news two weeks ago, she actually has reached out more and seemed more cordial for some reason. I think it was my DGAF reaction which was STFU and minimal DEER with more AA than usual. She was expecting the tears and anger but more like laughs and amusement.

Our most recent conversation started with us talking about logistics of her move and how my daughter is doing in school etc (RESET). I discussed my plan when I returned as I have a lot on my plate that is requiring logistics but I'm compressing them together to minimize distractions. After that she started to drive the conversation about the reasons why she wanted the separation.

She started to discuss a lot of insecurities she had with me, "was I cheating while deployed, why I was going to the gym, etc" and that is when it clicked. She had talked 15 minutes all about herself and my "wrongs".

I calmly told her that it seemed she was projecting insecurities and there was some guilt behind it, and asked if she had anything she wanted to tell me. She paused and was caught off guard because she was used to me DEERing and defending my BP self. She said she didn't but one knew she does.

I told her that I am focused on my daughter right now and the outcome of her actions will have. She wanted to talk about the trial separation "plan" which I told her that we would deal with it when I got home because I'm focused on the mission. I also told her we would stay to our martial vows, but if that changed be up front and not waste my time. Again she was taken back by it.

During this I was very calm and collected and ensured minimal DEERing and emotion. As I talked to her internally I was questioning why would I even want to "date" her, but I didn't let that bleed through. I could hear her hamster spinning because effectively I wasn't clamoring to have her take me back etc. I was recalling the priceless advice within the RP texts.

After I talked to her, I called 3 lawyers to ensure I get my plan together. One of them who has been doing divorce for 20+ years told me my story is no different but he did mention how positive I was.

He usually gets BPs sobbing on the phone and I was laughing because I was amused with myself and how I was handling this. Since I'm military he is going to help me out as he knows what it is like as he is a Vet. He told me to stay the course and be cordial because it can get ugly fast. I told him to generate a 50/50 split of custody with every other week, she keeps what is hers and I keep the debt and my assets. He said that it was a good deal and meditation can work if it is at this point.

The dude was RP as he agreed that the "trial separation" is just "Let her blame him for not working out". He also mentioned the possibility of a Chad and how many times he has seen it where the wife wants to divorce due to Chad and the husband gets the newer model. Wife tries to change the agreement after the fact because of it lol.

With that said; I am remaining the course. I am working out and hitting PRs each week. I am stowing cash, looking at places to live, and I am actually excited about the prospect. I have reached out to multiple social groups that I want to be a part of and working the problem. I am also reading Superior Man right now and I have to say it is a solid read and rings true. Personal reflection is a bitch sometimes but I have to say that you cannot change until you become aware.

Overall, I am satisfied where I stand as I am feeling I am in control of my agency, and I appreciate the advice and reach out that MRP has provided. I'm looking forward to my return.

Post Information
Title [Update 3] Trial Separation, Frame, and Lawyers...
Author broneilbro
Upvotes 10
Comments 54
Date 27 June 2018 08:54 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Original Link
Similar Posts

Red Pill terms found in post:

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret[M] [score hidden] stickied comment (0 children) | Copy

Did you not get the message?

you talked a lot, things happened, and you learn to cope with the shit life gave you to eat.

you belong in /r/deadbedrooms or /r/divorce, not here.

[–]PersaeusRed Beret3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy

how do these two things go together:

She said she didn't but one knew she does.


I also told her we would stay to our martial vows

. . . they don't. you're saying she's cheating but your going to stick to your vows?

so let me get this straight; your having a trial separation to see if you can work things out. you're deployed which is sort of a trial separation.

i really don't understand why your entertaining any of this bullshit. why don't you just move back into your house; and tell her if she doesn't like the wall color to GTFO.

don't sign anything until you get home dumbass

[–]broneilbro[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

I agree with the deployment being a trial separation in a sense. I feel that the old me (Oct) is what she is leaving vs. the new me which she is not aware of in a sense.

I will have the remainder of the rental, she will have a house that she bought but my name is on the title and deed so I could effectively due domicile but fuck that.

The cheating thing is there are red flags all over which in the past turned out not to be. They were red flags due to my insecurities and so it is what it is. Her actions from this point forward will decide if they are true, though being a BP, deployed military, and her hitting the wall probability is high.

[–]johneyapocalypseThe one that says "Bad Motherfucker"1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Your post and follow-ups are somewhat vague and contradictory. As such, one of these replies should work:

Good, dude. I'm glad you're divorcing your whore wife.

  • or

Keep doing everything in your power to avoid divorce, pussy.

See how that works out for you.

I hope the rest of our troops aren't so fucking weak.

p.s. Every time your dumbass wife actually acts you move the goal posts and talk about how "her actions from this point forward will decide."

[–]broneilbro[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

What I meant from that is that her actions vice her words show her intent. I'm moving forward with drafting separation papers.

[–]ImSteveMcQueen0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

i really don't understand why your entertaining any of this bullshit. why don't you just move back into your house; and tell her if she doesn't like the wall color to GTFO.

YES. This, so much.

[–]gameoflibidos3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

You're being cucked dude.

Women do this kind of shit so they don't feel bad that they are fucking someone else. They do it to remove guilt.

Don't put up with this garbage. F the trial separation, it's over and done. Tell her the full paper work will be to her asap.

Gray Rock her... only talk about logistics dealing with daughter. Let lawyers do everything else and do not talk to her about anything else.. especially nothing emotional or any of her BS gaslighting reasons for doing what she's doing.

[–]broneilbro[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Absolutely. I'm with you on this. Me playing along is me holding my cards close to my chest until I get back. I'm getting my finances in order as I have some time.

I'm already budgeting what I can live off and it's looking well.

[–]ImSteveMcQueen2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Save yourself the emotional masturbation and just get the fuck out. The sooner you do it the better. It doesn't matter what she did or didn't do nor what she will do. You've seen the writing on the wall. Time to stand up and act in your own interests. GET THE FUCK OUT. NOW.

Stop the "she said ...", "she did ..." stuff. Stop waiting for her to love you again. Fuck what she says... look at what she is doing. Is this what you deserve from a woman ? Is this what you are going to SETTLE for ? For the rest of your life ? Stop hoping she will change. It isn't going to happen. GET THE FUCK OUT. NOW.

A year ago I was where you are, except I initiated everything. My ex wasn't asking for a trial separation, there was no Chad, etc. I saw her for who she was and I was done with her.

I lawyered up in April, 2017. Formally ended things in late May. Started mediation in August. Finally got permission to move out of the house in November. Got my new place in December. The house just sold. We'll start to formally divide assets in the near future.

The kids are doing well. Custody will be determined this fall. I'm not too worried.

I wasn't a crying BP. The biggest pain for me wasn't losing her, it was the realization of how much of my life I had wasted being in a bad relationship. And how blind I was to everything.

I've done a ton of personal work. I generally work on something every day. Reading, processing, counselling, partaking in group sessions, etc. It all helps. I understand myself better and get stronger and more focused every day. It is a long process to reprocess everything, learn the lessons and reprogram yourself.

In case you are doubting yourself, I've been in several really good relationships since I left my ex. Better than I ever had it with my ex. I didn't loose anything leaving her, relationship wise. I upgraded.

The last year has been the best year of my life, because I figured myself out. As my namesake says, I live for myself and answer to nobody. It is a new paradigm, one that has been missing for many, many years.

When one door closes, others open. All I can say is that if you work on yourself you will be rewarded.

If you are like me back then, you've got a ton of uncertainty ahead. Be patient with yourself. One day at a time. Focus on yourself first and then your children. Give yourself breaks from dealing with the ugly stuff and trying to figure things out. You don't need to do everything all at once.

The best thing you can do with your ex is go no contact as much as possible. Communicate as little as possible and even then only for logistics via email or text. No verbal conversation whatsoever. No asking her questions. No rehashing anything. YOU ARE COMPLETELY DONE WITH HER EMOTIONALLY. UNPLUG. DISCONNECT.

STOP LISTENING TO WHAT SHE SAYS. Judge her and the situation by what she DOES. Period. End of story. If you have to explain things to her, tell her that her words mean nothing, you judge her entirely on her actions. And then tell her exactly what actions you need from her to move forward with her. And when she spins you her hamster, put your hands over your ears and go "blah, blah, blah". If there is any chance of moving this forward, you need ACTIONS from her, not words. No action = she loses you, not negotiable.

Watch yourself VERY closely in your new relationships. It is so easy to repeat bad habits. You will probably need MRP more at the start of a new relationship than you did in your old relationship. Old habits die hard.

You'll probably notice that the kind of women you attract changes if you've truly changed. And the relationship will definitely have a different feel. It is going to feel strange at first, a new woman being attracted to you just because you are you.

Get used to being comfortable alone. There is no shame in it. It is a gift. I love it. The person with the most power in a relationship is the one that is willing to walk away from it and when you are fine being alone, you always have a default position to fall back on.

There are many things to give a man happiness besides being in a relationship. FIND THEM. DO THEM. TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF. BUILD YOURSELF. Then fit any potential women in around that. YOU FIRST. PERIOD.

Good luck.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

OYS for journal entries.

[–]broneilbro[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

I'm banned from MRP some reason.

[–]weakandsensitive2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

If you can clarify "some reason", we can see about revisiting your ban.

[–]broneilbro[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The reason has I thought a thread was AskRP related in context and posted in it with AskRP context when it was in MRP. Also was BP bleeding in the messages from a certain mod.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This post tells me he has no fucking idea what the reason is.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy


[–]simbarlionRed Beret1 point2 points  (11 children) | Copy

Sounds positive.

Small red flag in how often you talk about how calm / chuckle / OI you are, based on your post history with PI.

Your test will be when you / see her / meet chad / lose on negotiations.

[–]broneilbro[S] 1 point2 points  (10 children) | Copy

You are correct. I think the calm/chuckle is the amusement of the realization that if this happened a year ago I would be breaking shit, cussing, being depressed, etc etc.

The test will come when I see her and the kid. I think that is something that I will need to accept based off what happens but it is something that will come regardless. Control your actions and reactions.

[–]suprathepeg2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy

Maybe try to arrange it so you see your kid a day or two before you see her? When you see her have the separation agreement ready to go and ready to sign so if you sense yourself losing frame you can use that as a mental reference point to keep cool.

Your lawyer is right, cordial can go sideways fast during this process. Just gotta expect it and be ready for it.

[–]broneilbro[S] 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

I was thinking about that. There is no family in the area that could pick my daughter up but still I haven't found a "trial separation with kids" plan. I would rather develop something to present to the wife but I don't know where to start.

[–]suprathepeg2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

WTF is a “trial” separation? Unless you have some laws I’ve never heard of there is a separation, a divorce or a marriage. Separation is by definition a “trial” divorce. Men work with reality, this “trial” shit is just letting someone make their own terms. If you’re buying into that language you’re definitely not living in reality.

Her leaving you first is her taking the initiative away from you. You gotta cut that off and eliminate as much leverage she has immediately. In other words STFU and get your shit (see separation agreement and plans for when you get home) together.

You’ve already talked to the lawyer, if you can’t find something, it’s his job to do it. I’m not American so forgive the question but does the military have any kind of legal resources available you can take advantage of?

My sense of direction on this is:

  1. Get you end tight as a virgins asshole, while playing it aloof and cool.
  2. Start planning for your new life without her. Talk to bitches etc.
  3. Get the agreement signed.
  4. Allow her second plate status at best and only judge her on merit going forward.

In that order.

In your mind no matter what she says accept she’s been fucking ugly fat dudes since you’ve been gone... from what I hear she’s in an anal only relationship with a 45 year old pro X-Box gamer.

Keep your chin up, you’re a prize to be won now.

[–]ImSteveMcQueen0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

You get a lawyer to draft an interim without prejudice consent order for child access during the SEPARATION. Her lawyer will negotiate it with your lawyer, it might go before a judge for a decision. Then you have clear INTERIM WITHOUT PREJUDICE access to your children. Police enforcible access. Shit just got real.

[–]broneilbro[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Pretty much availability of child during separation while divorce is pending?

[–]ImSteveMcQueen0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy


PM me if you need help with this stuff. Having just gone through it, I'm pretty familiar.

Interim access is usually 50/50 because that is the way it was in the house previously and a great time for dad's to demonstrate their child rearing skills. That is why it is without prejudice to the final ruling and interim as well.

[–]broneilbro[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thank you, I'll reach out.

[–]suprathepeg0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Had another thought. I wonder if you could make it so you see her right after shark week? Prolly a good time to get her to sign.

[–]broneilbro[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

That is a possibility. Again I analyzed multiple "Trial Separations" posts and it is literally used for the woman to push blame to the man. Now if the man gives two shits about it and is ready to NEXT it isn't such an impact or weapon, but if you take the bullets out of the gun it doesn't wound anyone.

My main focus is myself and my daughter.

[–]tmh88mrp0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I like the attitude man. Keep it up. You're not doing anything wrong by acting like this and you're well on your way to improving yourself so that you actually do no wrong by her, so the rest is all up to her and fate. There's no turning back, to turn back is to go back to old ways. Ways, that you know is what got you in this position in the first place. You are being strong and that's the best thing you can do for your daughter. How else are you going to take good care of her? Now I need to shut up and go do the same.

[–]broneilbro[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

You are correct. By actions I mean more of the actual action of her mentioning vice the context. I'm not listening to her message but the fact that she is talking to cover the guilt per the advice.

[–]ImSteveMcQueen0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

If you are judging her by her actions, what is the point of your post ?

[–]broneilbro[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm meeting with the JAG next week to see the best process for this as I'm overseas. I'm going to put the lawyer on retainer and work that aspect.

[–]FossilGuy160 points1 point  (18 children) | Copy

Why would you stay to your marital vows during a trial separation? This was a big fail here. You should have told her right there, that if she wants to separate that you are no longer exclusive.

[–]broneilbro[S] 2 points3 points  (17 children) | Copy

That was based of her saying she wanted to focus on our vows and such, which I responded with if you want that, do it but change your mind and I'm gone. I still believe in martial vows unless I come home and Chad's balls deep in her. I saw that advice on a post relating to trial separations.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (10 children) | Copy

Stay with the vows- don't compromise your principles because she is a whore. It's just nature of the bitch that any lady-drama on your side can spark her hamster to ruin any equitable split.

Women have something called the "silver-bullet". The silver-bullet is false accusations in court that because of vagina/#me2 are just believed without proof. They can be used to her advantage with regards to custody. A scorned bitch even if she is a whore is vindictive, because it's never her fault. The silver bullet is used to separate you from your kids, because they know that will hurt you and used to scorch your reputation, because she's a saint of course.

As a military guy you need to know yourself and your opponent and the terrain you are battling on. The terrain for this battle is not favorable to men in US family courts due to legacy sexism, but that's the way it is.

[–]ImSteveMcQueen1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy

Women have something called the "silver-bullet". The silver-bullet is false accusations in court that because of vagina/#me2 are just believed without proof. They can be used to her advantage with regards to custody. A scorned bitch even if she is a whore is vindictive, because it's never her fault. The silver bullet is used to separate you from your kids, because they know that will hurt you and used to scorch your reputation, because she's a saint of course.

This is BS.

In most courts assets are split via formulas, regardless of behaviour. Child custody and access is determined by what is in the best interests of the children, not what went on between the parents.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy

[–]ImSteveMcQueen1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

That is BS. Any claim of domestic violence needs to be backed up with witnesses and police reports these days. If it wasn't reported, it didn't happen.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

No one has ever filed a false police report!

No Sir … not at all.

[–]ImSteveMcQueen1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

Police will document what they saw on the scene. Physical markings, drunkeness, etc. If that stuff isn't present, then it was just a normal argument. And it pretty much has to be multiple offences to have weight. And then the wife needs to prove this impacts the kids and the father's ability to parent. And then a psychologist will get involved and do an evaluation.

All that needs to happen before a judge gives it weight.

Even then the father will be given supervised access to the kids and observed. If he passes that, he'll get more access and so it goes. Courts want to keep kids involved with their fathers at all costs, unless it isn't healthy for the kids.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

"Even then the father will be given supervised access to the kids and observed. " Steer it away from this.
You must not have been reading the headlines or gossip shows about Brad Pitt. He may get off clean despite his ex's crazy shit, but the average guy with no bankroll. How does he buy justice?

My very simple statement to OP was to avoid any unnecessary BS or revenge taking to stop it from getting to, the father having to prove his fitness.

[–]ImSteveMcQueen-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

My very simple statement to OP was to avoid any unnecessary BS or revenge taking to stop it from getting to, the father having to prove his fitness.


But his behaviour has absolutely nothing to do with the division of assets and unless it is extreme, like domestic violence, little to do with custody and access to the kids.

I'm not condoning bad behaviour but the chances that false allegations are going to hurt him are slim.

[–]paniconomics0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

To be fair, the false accusations meme is more a real life thing than court: the public have no critical eye for evidence, but the court doesn't systematically sentence you to life in prison without real evidence.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

In a Me2 world what else is there but a reputation and a mob willing to lynch you? The advice to OP was to avoid provoking her into a situation where the silver bullet would be appealing... Up your game.

[–]FossilGuy161 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

How is her moving out and doing a trial separation, working on her vows? If she wanted to work at it, she wouldn’t be moving out. Watch her actions, not her words.

[–]broneilbro[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Damn right. That's why her actions over deployment have been speaking more than words. She is still thinking I'm not aware of AWALT. I did tell her taking the easy route out goes against the "vows" she wants to work towards.

[–]ImSteveMcQueen1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

WTF are you still talking to her ? What more do you need to see to know it is time to end this ? Do you like drama in your life ?

End it. If she is bluffing, she'll come back to you. Then YOU decide what you want.

[–]FossilGuy161 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

The shitty part of what she is doing is that you are not even there. How in gods name can she be wanting to work at it, when she leaves before you even get back?

Think of the flip side if she was gone and you at home. If you were serious about working on your marriage, Would you move out before she gets back?

[–]broneilbro[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

That's exactly what raised my eyebrow and was like she's lying to me and herself. She's trying to save herself because I'll be frank if somebody asks me.

She's literally not giving me an opportunity and so it's like why even kid ourselves!?

[–]ImSteveMcQueen2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

That's exactly what raised my eyebrow and was like she's lying to me and herself. She's trying to save herself because I'll be frank if somebody asks me. She's literally not giving me an opportunity and so it's like why even kid ourselves!?

Are you guys (FG16 and Broneilbro) fucking MRP newbies ?

RP men ignore everything that a woman says and look at her ACTIONS. If this woman wanted to work things out, she'd be at home, cooking him dinner and patching things up. Do you see that happening ? NO !

What this woman is doing is spinning her hamster to keep him hooked and relieve herself of guilt. Period. End of story. If you understood women, you wouldn't be debating this. Judge women by their actions, not what they say.

[–]ImSteveMcQueen0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

Our most recent conversation started with us talking...

Why are you talking ? Time to go no contact, everything via email or texts. Better proof of what went on for the lawyers, better closure for you.

[–]broneilbro[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

Copy. The talking was during a FaceTime with my daughter as I'm deployed and I'll bend the rules a bit to see my kid.

[–]ImSteveMcQueen1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Don't let your ex leverage your child to get a conversation with you. My ex calls the kids while they are in my care per our interim court order. I answer, hear her voice and hand the phone to my kids. No niceties, no conversation. Everything between us happens via email or text.

She can set up the Facetime call with your daughter and leave the room or at least stand in the background quietly. Your time with your daughter is YOUR TIME.

[–]broneilbro[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Yeah, I'm looking into posts about being the Gray Stone as my focus is on my daughter. She is my guidance and light now. I would say the victim version of me really did not allocate the time and care for her as I was worried too much on my bitch ass self.

Moving forward it will definitely be my focus now to be the best father and man to her.

[–]ImSteveMcQueen0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I had trouble connecting with my kids a bit too when I was BP. So much easier now.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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