660,952 posts

[FR] STFU, just STFU

by red-sfpplus | May 15, 2018 | askMRP

27 upvotes

Reddit View

This is going to be a quick hit, and something I have not seen directly suggested here...

I carry a voice recorder for work sometimes when I am doing IT org reviews. There are far to many things said in my "Bob" interviews to take notes and all that. Or when I am touring a Datacenter it is easier to just talk, rather than write.

Last night I had my voice recorder still on and when I got home my wife started to hit me up on a few things (canceling kids practices due to STAAR tests this week - big thing here in TX) and I DEERed a little, then later on that night I got into it a little with the kids about homework, etc. Nothing big, just normal parent stuff.

This morning I am sitting and working and reviewing the tapes. Holy shit I sounded like a faggot when I started to DEER with her on why we needed to cancel ball last night and tonight. Not like it impacted her mind you, but holy fuck you can hear the manipulation on tape.

We talk about carrying a VR around if you are going thru a divorce, or whatever....

My suggestion, is that if you are DEERing and struggling with STFU with your wife/SO/LTR to carry it around, and listen to how big of a faggot you sounds like. You likely talk way to fucking much.

Made my ass pucker this morning, that is for sure.......


Post Information
Title [FR] STFU, just STFU
Author red-sfpplus
Upvotes 27
Comments 32
Date 15 May 2018 03:01 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/204491
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/8jm8xx/fr_stfu_just_stfu/
Similar Posts

TRP terms found in post
Click to open them on Dictionary

Comments

[–]Red-Curious31 points32 points  (10 children) | Copy

Less is more. In these types of arguments, the reason NI is one of my favorite WISNIFG tactics is because it's a lot like a cross-examination in court. It's a guaranteed way to avoid DEERing because you never make an argument yourself - you let the other person do it for you. I follow what's known as the Pozner Cross, which is summarized pretty well here.

Here's how this plays out in a marriage:

  1. Be Brief. This isn't about getting all your feels on the table. It's about bringing closure to a conflict. You can get your feels out in the bedroom.

  2. Be Selective. Pick your battles. If her position isn't hurting your interests, no sense fighting against it. Or if your position won't benefit from asking the question or making a statement, don't do it.

  3. Use Plain Words. Don't try to be Einstein. If she doesn't understand what you're asking, she'll start asking you questions back which makes you lose control in the argument.

  4. Ask Only Leading Questions. Never ask an open-ended question, only yes-or-no questions. In WISNIFG's NI terms, instead of asking "Why is it bad that I __?" you switch it to, "Is bad to __?" It cuts off her and shows that the conclusion matters more than the hamstering or excuses to try to get around the conclusion.

  5. Never ask a question you don't already know the answer to. Asking questions to discover answers implies there might be unknown legitimacy to what she's saying. If you're in discovery mode, go for it. In a conflict, you're not trying to discover new information - you're trying to put the matter to rest.

  6. Listen to the Answer. You know where you want the conversation to end. But she might say something that helps you get there faster. Pay attention to visual cues as well, as I often find that my wife doesn't even believe what she's saying, she just wants to argue a point so she doesn't feel like a total idiot for being wrong. Let her make her point and fog with any validity in it, but go back to your broken record and negative inquiry.

  7. Do Not Quarrel. Basically no DEERing or tit for tat exchanges. Even more important: No editorializations. Editorializations are opinions that comment on a position. If she makes a dumb argument, don't call it a dumb argument. That's just your opinion and obviously not hers. Don't do that. There's very little room for adjectives in conflict.

  8. Do Not Permit the Witness to Explain. This is kind of the whole point of the Pozner cross. The stereotypical example is a string of questions: "It was dark out, right? There were no street lights? You didn't have a flash light? You didn't even have your phone with you?" Then stop. Because inevitably every young attorney wants to ask the next question, "So how could you see what happened?" And the answer will come blaring through: "Because it was a bright full moon and I had full vision." I've often found that if I ask my wife pointed questions about what she's saying without giving her a chance to provide her own explanation, she eventually gives up on her explanation before she even gives it. The matter is over and I've won her respect because she sees that I know what I'm talking about, but I didn't force my opinion on her - I just asked her questions to get to the bottom of the best conclusion. Of course, if she is right, then there's no conflict in the first place. Why would I fight against what I know is right?

  9. Do not ask the witness to repeat the testimony given on direct. This is all that, "Didn't you just say __?" nonsense that people love to use. You don't ask them what they said. You tell them what they said, "Just a bit ago you said _. Just now you said __. Am I correct in understanding that you changed your mind?" This isn't accusing her of being contradictory - it's giving her an out to take whichever option you want her to take and not look like an idiot for doing so. Again, the best strategy for resolving conflict isn't to win an argument; it's to make the other side think there's no point in arguing anyway because your way was always going to be the right way and they're the good guy for finally realizing it. I've actually settled cases mid-trial because of cross-examination like this.

  10. Limit Questioning. Covered above.

  11. Save the Explanation for Summation. In law, this functions as, "Don't explain yourself until closing arguments." In marriage, since you're the judge and not the attorney, it translates simply to, "Don't explain yourself at all." You just say, "Thanks for all of your insights. I appreciate what you've said. Here's what we're going to do going forward ..."

Of course, the major difference between marriage conflict and court conflict is that if done correctly your wife won't feel like she's being cross-examined. Court is adversarial. Conflict within a marriage should take away the adversarial feeling. If one takes on the frame of "judge" in those moments (per one of my past MRP posts), it's not "me against you" - it's "I respect your authority, am making a request, and am happy to answer any questions that will help you make a wise and informed decision."

If you can elicit that attitude, you can do no wrong. If you agree she is right, then you are humble enough to account for the insights of your helper. If you go your own way, then you're a strong man who knows how to say no to get what he wants. That's a win-win.

[–]InChargeManRed Beret5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

"Thanks for all of your insights. I appreciate what you've said. Here's what we're going to do going forward ..."

This

[–]Tebulus1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

This is the kind of shit you should be making posts about in MRP main.

[–]Red-Curious0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Feel free. No need to credit.

[–]Tebulus0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Eh. I like to read your writing, and you have a mind for the interpersonal interactions and a lot of insight. There is a reason Rian just crossposted your other post to TRP main. I just could never figure out why the introspection stopped as soon as jesus gets involved.

[–]PersaeusRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I just could never figure out why the introspection stopped as soon as jesus gets involved.

it's called faith. i abstain

[–]stonepepe1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Amazing! I saved this

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Me too. Excellent approach. I just got schooled.

[–]ImSteveMcQueen0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

^^^ Gold.

[–]UEMcGillI am become McGill, Destroyer of Blue Pill0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The most important point? Be the Judge.

[–]denisgomesfranco0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thank you sir, I've been minding my STFU for a while, and this is excellent advice. Saved!

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

oh yeah. I've done this. Want a real cringe worthy show? Go back and watch home movies of yourself.

Jesus christ that is an eye opener.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Agreed. I cant watch myself on video, hear voice overs.

Its amazing how your little ticks are obvious when you see them

[–]PersaeusRed Beret1 point2 points  (18 children) | Copy

canceling kids practices due to STAAR tests this week

curious as to what one has to do with the other? cancelling practice to cram for a school board standardized test?

[–]Reach180Red Beret3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Don't know what it's like in Texas, but in my state these standardized tests are used more for evaluating schools than students.....which is why your teachers and principals obsess over them.

Unless your kid is off the charts bad, it rarely matters for them. Maybe it's different in Texas.

[–]DanceMonkeeDanceRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This was my thinking, too. But it seems like a good, hard practice would promote good sleep and reduce stress. If it's like it is here, there is no homework on nights before standardized testing.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red[S] 0 points1 point  (15 children) | Copy

Our practice is from 5:30-7:30. Most of the team parents canceled on me, so rather than have a practice with 3-5 kids I just canceled the whole thing.

[–]Reach180Red Beret1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy

Is your focus on making your team win or developing skills in the kids?

Sounds like a great opportunity for some individual work for the 3-5 kids who want to be there.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red[S] 1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy

What is the difference?

Anyway I never said I didn’t practice with my daughter and son. The important ones.

I just said I canceled the team practice.

[–]Reach180Red Beret2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

Guy who just wants to win his youth sports games spends the majority of his practice time scrimmaging. Smaller turnout would hinder that.

Guy who wants to develop skills would see the smaller practice as an opportunity to do something different with the handful of kids who showed up.

My fuckin pet peeve with kids sports is guy who volunteers to coach and then cancels practice when it's not easy or normal for him. The highlight of my kid's week is sports practice. Lazy coach stealing it away from him pisses me off.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Lazy coach stealing it away from him pisses me off.

Then coach yourself faggot. It isnt my job to teach your kids sports, or anything else for that matter.

Be grateful there are men out there like me that volunteer our time to coach, while you sit in your car in the AC or in the bleachers finger fucking your phone.

[–]Reach180Red Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Be grateful there are men out there like me that volunteer our time to coach

...and then cancel practice when it's inconvenient

But thank you for your service when you feel like it.

[–]PersaeusRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Lazy coach

huh, we have worked with a ton of coaches and i'm glad to say i have never met this guy.

[–]PersaeusRed Beret0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

What is the difference?

which kids make the team and how much you're willing to carry developing players

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Meh. Perhaps during try outs.

Once they are on the team the goal is to win and develop them all based off their specific strengths.

You cant do one without the other.

[–]PersaeusRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

agreed

[–]PersaeusRed Beret0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

in a way it's refreshing that parents would put academics over sports, would never happen around here, and i would think sports trumps all in TX.

very strange that parents would cancel prior to some test. not like it's the ACT or SAT . . . which with practice ending at 7:30 what difference does it make anyway. really strange people.

[–]UEMcGillI am become McGill, Destroyer of Blue Pill1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I guess everyone is different? My kids happen to test very well on all these tests, but we also happen to have sports kids too. My older son would actually be better off to have a good hard practice the night before. I used to own a border collie and I think he loved me so much that after he died he came back reincarnated as my son. As such if he doesn't get exercised, he's destructive...

But having coached kids for several years now, I also know that parents can be lazy fucks and will make any excuse to not come to practice. I once had the two worst kids plus my son show up for practice because 'bad weather' everyone thought we'd cancel practice. We lived in a town that was 3 miles by 1 mile, and it was indoor. Those kids got one on one coaching and a starting spot the next game.

[–]PersaeusRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

i'm with you. think it would be better to run em' hard the night before so the get some good sleep.

parents can be lazy fucks

absolutely, one the main reasons we switched from rec to travel pretty early on. travel parents are committed . . . sometimes excessively.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Parents who are not parents that decide to be parents for one week of tests.

[–]PersaeusRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

virtue signaling the standardized test. i'm sure they posted about on Facebook. BARF

[–]crimson_chris0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

My kid is doing something similar in CA. Testing is all week and can be stressful for some kids. So they recommend that your kids get a lot of sleep and be fully rested. I think the test are more important for schools (ranking, performance, funding) than the kids.

I think when I was a kid it was called the Iowa Test of Basic Skills.



You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

© TheRedArchive 2020. All rights reserved.

created by /u/dream-hunter