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Pregnancy and Newborn affect on relationship: Is this normal? Does it get better?

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Eaghost3
May 7, 2018
12 upvotes
askMRP

Hello friends. Let me start by saying that I have read the sidebar and I lift (almost 1000 pound club), and my career is moving along nicely (surgery resident/MD). I say this to not make this discussion about a lack of reading, lifting, or career.

Onto the question: My wife and I have been married since I started residency, about 4 years now, and have been together for over 10 years. We have a 2 yo and a 3 week old. I have been following MRP for about 9 months now and have read the sidebar and have been slowly implementing changes. I know that there have been theories that changes in the relationship can take X amount of time for Y amount of relationship length. Given our relationship length and my time working on this stuff, I expected to see more improvement.

Im wondering if pregnancy and young children is a confounding factor that often slows progress. I started MRP work about when she got pregnant and we had sex maybe 4 or 5 times during the 9 months, and it was never really good. Very minimal HJs no BJs.

Now post delivery we cant have sex for 6 weeks and last time it took her like 6 months before it wasnt painful. Have you guys who have had good or successful marriages noticed similar situations?

Overall Im quite unhappy with the relationship, half the time I dont want to be around her and almost everything she says bugs me. Im still quite attracted to her and care about her a lot and dont think the relationship is dead and am still going to continue putting in work. (Before you post "All I hear is you talking about her", you're right because Im asking how pregnancy and young children have affected your wifes in your relationships).

So should I expect a slower turnaround in the relationship given life events or am I just not doing enough/is the relationship dead? What do you guys think?


Post Information
Title Pregnancy and Newborn affect on relationship: Is this normal? Does it get better?
Author Eaghost3
Upvotes 12
Comments 44
Date 07 May 2018 09:35 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/204531
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/8hr8g5/pregnancy_and_newborn_affect_on_relationship_is/
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Comments

[–]man_in_the_worldRed Beret10 points11 points  (6 children) | Copy

Have you guys who have had good or successful marriages noticed similar situations?

No.

Given our relationship length and my time working on this stuff, I expected to see more improvement.

Marriage is RP "hard mode," because you must simultaneously be a top-tier boyfriend, husband, and father; fall short in any of these, and your wife will lose respect and attraction for you.

  • Boyfriend: "I lift (almost 1000 pound club), and my career is moving along nicely" so some of the basic attraction elements are there, but do you flirt with and game your wife? Do you bring the fun like when you were dating?

  • Husband: Do you OYS at home, and lead your household, or have you demoted yourself to crew or passenger and forced her to be household captain? Do you leave your own "decision labor" to her?

  • Father: Are you an engaged, proactive, autonomous father who takes his kids away daily for Daddy time, or have you deferred parenting to her and are either "assistant mom/babysitter" or unengaged father? Either of the latter both kills her respect for you and creates resentment.

Don't DEER the excuse of pregrancy/childbirth for the lack of progress; it's more likely that you're failing in one or more of the boyfriend/husband/father roles.

Or, you might be a pussy running a "Dancing Monkey" Attraction Improvement Programme who is afraid to be assertive with his wife, and have thus earned her contempt.

[–]ice_walkerHead Negotiator0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Very enlightening comment, thanks!

[–]Eaghost3[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

BF- physically I am better than when we started dating and better aesthetically and strength wise than the majority of our relationship. Ive been working on flirting more and brining in more fun, I think those things were definitely lacking before MRP

Husband- Also a big problem before MRP. I definitely was the drunk captain. I was letting her make a lot of the decisions, and when I would come home after work I just wanted to do nothing so if she asked me questions or for input in decisions I would just say "Idk or i dont care do whatever you want". Which I know now is a terrible thing to do and Ive been really working on this over the last number of months.

Father- Big improvement here. I definitely deferred almost all child care to her and my mother who took care of kids during work day. Over the last 3 or so months Ive taken a major role in taking care of my older son which I have found really rewarding and I think its had a positive effect on my wife as well. The newborn is still tough for me

[–]CaptJohnLukeDiscard5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

Here are a few thoughts / points.

A. What bodyfat % are you? Personally, I think “look good naked” is better advice than “lift” because it’s more holistic. Women care less about how much you actually lift versus how good your shoulders and abs look when you take your shirt off. So, if you are lifting but your diet sucks and you still have a Dad bod, fix that ASAP. Check out intermittent fasting or leangains or something. This doesn’t mean don’t lift. It means lift AND eat clean.

B. It sounds like you have major oneitis. MRP doesn’t fix marriages. It fixes men who then are better prepared to succeed in marriage. However, marriage takes two to tango and if you married an awful woman, you may be out of luck. In other words, don’t focus on or worry about her for a while. You do you. You can have a great marriage. It just may not be with this woman.

C. The ‘one month of change for each year of beta’ rule is a general rule which doesn’t accommodate individual differences. Pregnancy, breastfeeding, and little ones in general can eff that up. A woman who chases a 2 year old around the house all day may not be as quick to notice her hot hubby versus the mom who drops her 9 year old off before going to work. Give her some time to find her new normal before you make long term decisions.

D. How is your day game with your wife? How is your frame? Do you make her laugh? Do you flirt with her or tease her? Kino? You sound a bit mechanical and seem to think that Lift + Money = Sex which may be true of Bar sluts but isn’t usually true of wives. Are you a man with a charismatic, attractive personality? Are you interesting? Do you maintain frame? How do you handle shit tests and comfort tests?

I think your issues lie mainly in C and D in that you are dealing with a woman on an emotional rollercoaster and you don’t Game her well. My two cents.

[–]Eaghost3[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

good post.

A- BF is like 10ish percent based on calipers. I was always on the skinny side. About to read jung's book on fasting

B- Yeh you're probably right. I do have some degree of one-itis, I probably need to develop more plates or get more female friends or just put her on a pedestal less

C- Thanks! this is exactly what I was asking!

D- Day game is so-so, I make her laugh, flirt and tease a lot, lots of kino, but either I am doing it at the wrong times or what Im doing she isnt very receptive to. Frame has been slowly improving. Was definitely drunk captain before MRP. I thought that making her happy was what mattered and would complete all her honey-do lists thinking I would get sex and I would just say "whatever you want" when she would ask for input in decision making. This is where I think Ive made the most improvement.

You definitely hit the right points in your comment thanks!

[–]mindfulbutgutlessRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

just put her on a pedestal less

how about, not at all. When you look up, she looks down

[–]Senor_Martillo7 points8 points  (5 children) | Copy

All of this shit is out the window during pregnancy and up to 1 year after. Keep working on yourself. Keep paying the rope out behind you. Don't start drawing it back in for 9-12 months. When kid#2 is 6 months old and not gonna die of SIDS, go get a vasectomy.

Enjoy.

[–]MrChad_ThundercockChief Autist in Charge11 points12 points  (3 children) | Copy

Also, don’t actively dread her during pregnancy.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

Which OP would fucking know if he has read anything around here.

Why you being so nice?

[–]Cho_Assmilk2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

But he started by saying he's read the sidebar?

[–]Eaghost3[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

haha I knew there would be atleast one of those comments

[–]Eaghost3[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

thanks! Happy to see others have been in the same situation

[–]SteelToeShitKickerRed Beret1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

I'm going to go against the common wisdom here. I think you need to get your needs taken care of. I don't care how bad her pussy is, if she has one hand that is functional, you can get a hand job. Her mouth is likely also functional, you could get a BJ. You should not be walking on eggshells around her.

I started MRP work about when she got pregnant and we had sex maybe 4 or 5 times during the 9 months, and it was never really good.

Ok, here you need to lower your expectations. You aren't going to get pornstar sex when she's pregnant. Enjoy yourself and realize your wife probably isn't feeling sexy. Be a perv about her belly, try and help her not be so self-conscious.

Now post delivery we cant have sex for 6 weeks and last time it took her like 6 months before it wasnt painful

I don't know, me and the wife have been fucking after 4 weeks (6 weeks, right doc) each time. First few times are pretty rough, fine after that. I have my doubts about it hurting for 6 months, but you know the situation better.

CaptainJLD may be on to something here. Are you a strongfat? Might be time to sacrifice some strength and cut.

[–]CaptJohnLukeDiscard1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

As a former strongfat, wives don’t give a shit how strong you are if you don’t have abs. They may talk big but it’s all about action, not words.

[–]Eaghost3[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I agree with you, going to work on that more. Not strongfat. 10% BF by calipers, 6 foot 170s

[–]markpf730 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

1-2 years until life gets back on track assuming you don't fuck it up or let her fuck it up.

[–]lasteem10 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Agree with the above posters. Throw it all out the window for 3-6mo. Watch out for post pregnancy depression. Keep doing you and it will come back around.

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

Having a kid is a life stressor. It is very stressful, and you need to be the oak more than the rock.

Work on yourself, be there for your family during this stressful time. Ease up on the dread - there are plenty of stories on here of men screwing it all up with their pregnant wives.

Don’t do anything stupid.

One final note. You say you’re unhappy, but I think you are feeding the wrong wolf here.

[–]PersaeusRed Beret0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

but I think you are feeding the wrong wolf here

what do you mean by this?

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Happiness in some ways can be a choice. People can choose to be happy the same way people can choose to be unhappy.

It’s all about what wolf you choose to feed - http://www.sapphyr.net/natam/two-wolves.htm

[–]crimson_chris0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Pinning that one for the son. Almost forgot about it.

[–]Eaghost3[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Cool thx for the link. Youre probably right. Ive been working on this the hardest, working on meditation and my self talk and trying to improve my inner game. Definitely have made some big improvements here, long way to go though.

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I am a little amazed that as a surgeon or even a doc that you don't know how even a little bit of chemistry and change the brain and someone's outlook.

Changing the way you look at things and how you deal with them has a dramatic effect on your outlook and emotions. It starts with standing up straight. It's on of the reasons lifting is required. Any other form of exercise is just masturbating.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

should I expect

You shouldn't expect anything. Live your life. The relationship is her problem.

[–]ChadwickChadington0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

The 12 stages of dread are for some reason not on the sidebar, but there's a disclaimer in it that dread is likely to backfire during pregnancy.

Pregnant women want you to engage in the pregnancy, get into parenting books and discuss them, make plans for every possible health problem, make plans for the baby, discuss how living arrangements and schedules will change and what to about it, how long breast feeding is good (is 6 months really enough, is 2 years too much) etc.

Engaging in these topics is not counter to MRP advice, it's self improvement but self improvement as a father. Self improvement as a man will simply be viewed (correctly in my opinion) as uninterest in fatherhood. Based on your post and comments you made, this seems to be your case. Women don't just want babies, they also want good father. So, if you're not rocking every aspect of fatherhood, not just your career, then this will be a major turn off and you put your women in the position of having to slowly realize she picked the wrong mate. Men often think doing well in one area compensates another, but the foundation of MRP is that women don't think like that. Women won't think "he spends less quality time with the kids but more at work, so that's fair"; whether in some male philosophies it is fair doesn't matter as a women will never agree; it's only if there is no other choice will a women not resent less father presence but this has nothing to do with some philosophical argument just the practical reality that there's no other choice (and I mean no other choice, not "I don't have a choice because I choose this or that career and it takes a lot of time").

So, given the above, she likely interpreted more time lifting as less time with kids. If you have time and energy to lift you have time and energy to have great moments with your kids.

My solution is to lift my kids, throw them in the air, swing them around, do crazy dad-assisted-moon-jumping sessions that leave me exhausted and kids going crazy with excitement. Kids love this, wife loves this and I get some pretty decent exercise. Obviously, it's not as efficient as weights, but it is exercise and therefore displace some gym time; and so whatever part of your routine you can integrate kid lifting you're saving time and having fun with your kids. Get creative; you may need to build things to add weight. When my kids were small I'd have them sit on my back for push-ups; so even small kids can be difficult to lift if applying the right leverage. Obviously I'm not talking about new-borns but toddlers and up. Also, making a point to not use a stroller, again provides exersize and shows commitment to fatherhood.

So first issue is fatherhood. Providing resources is just one aspect of fatherhood. With a challenging career this is more difficult, but if you think yourself intelligent then you should see this as a challenge an intelligent person can solve, rather than be an excuse that an intelligent person does intelligent things that consume all time and energy.

This can be particularly challenging when kids are small, because men often deffer all baby and small-kid stuff to women because they can easily rationalize that they add less value. This is just lazy thinking. Of course, the balance will be far towards your wife, but idea fathers can or should be essentially absent in life of babies and toddlers is stupid.

If you solve this problem and feel you have organized life to be the best father possible, and still wife is not aroused by this then come back. If you don't want to be a great father, then that's not owning your decisions and is cowardice; in that case do what you want, you're a shitty person, own being a shitty person and don't put it on your wife for not giving enough BJ's.

[–]PersaeusRed Beret0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

The 12 stages of dread are for some reason not on the sidebar

from the sidebar:

https://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/wiki/index

[–]ChadwickChadington0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Yeah, I know where to find it.

But when I first started reading, I thought dread referred to the 60 days of dread which is right smack in the sidebar with 8 levels clearly visible. I quickly figured out that there must be some other reference because people referred being dread level 10 or 11 which is obviously higher than the 8 levels in the sidebar (but maybe some people miss this or can't do math).

My point is this poster obviously didn't read the main dread reference as it clearly states dread and game is unlikely to work and likely to backfire with a pregnant women.

From what the poster says, I understand he basically started gaming his wife after she was pregnant and he discovered MRP and now unsatisfied with progress, otherwise he would not be here asking if pregnancy effects game.

So, I assume he only read through the main links in the sidebar and didn't get to the 12 stages of dread material.

Other possibility is the warning about pregnant women didn't exist at the time, in which case poster has a reasonable excuse; and, fortunately for him, it doesn't seem he's made things worse with his pregnancy game.

In either case, I think it would make sense to make a link to the 12 stages of dread above the 60 days of dread, so it's totally clear for new people (as people refer to their dread level often), but that's just my opinion.

[–]PersaeusRed Beret0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Other possibility is the warning about pregnant women didn't exist at the time

warning has always been there.

while it's possible, i don't think his wife's pregnancy is the primary issue.

[–]ChadwickChadington0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I agree pregnancy may not be the main issue, but the warning that game and dread are unlikely to improve things I think is a good warning. My point is that the lack of progress is expected, and so the fact that he hasn't made much progress is not in itself a sign of anything.

I agree with other posters that have suggested to wait what the new normal becomes and re-evaluate.

My advice on top of this is that improving as a father will both help his kids (that I assume he cares about) and improve his attractiveness to his wife, and something he can do now without potential for blow-back.

Small kids are not tiny intellectuals, so someone very in the intellect may find it a bit bizarre at first to engage creatively with small kids, but it's a small barrier in my opinion. You can feel goofy playing with or frustrated by the general incoherence of small kids but who cares.

[–]PersaeusRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

My advice on top of this is that improving as a father will both help his kids (that I assume he cares about) and improve his attractiveness to his wife, and something he can do now without potential for blow-back.

agreed. good thing about this advice is it fits with stay plan = go plan

[–]PersaeusRed Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

My wife and I have been married since I started residency, about 4 years now, and have been together for over 10 years.

how was sex before the kids and/or before marriage?

half the time I dont want to be around her and almost everything she says bugs me

not surprised. i find there is a direct correlation between how my wife fucks me and how much i like her.

[–]Eaghost3[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

sex was amazing before kids and marriage. every day to multiple times a week. she would have multiple orgasms and I enjoyed it a lot.

that's what I think too about how much I like her.

I feel like when she would annoy me when we were having sex a lot it would barely bother me and now with zero sex I get much more annoyed by little things with her. I'm sure it's my fault but I definitely noticed that too

[–]screechhaterRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Po surgeon boy who has built in dread from young nurses wanting to land a doc can't decide what the fuck he wants, yet claims to have read the sidebar, hmn....

"Im wondering if pregnancy and young children is a confounding factor that often slows progress."

Nope, not one bit. She will will be looking at the calendar if you are attractive. Mine got her mother to watch the kids and booked a hotel herself 16 years ago and 13 years ago.

Do not blow your shit up with increasing dread currently, but make damn sure you have your bases of 1-3 covered currently. Most important thing is get her someone to help so she can get some sleep don't ask, just do

Take a lot of walks with her and the kids to get her active and burn off some of the fat

Mainly, lead

"last time it took her like 6 months before it wasnt painful"

And, for the right guy, she will work past it

[–]Majormikeoz0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Lactone is a hormone that women's bodies produces to stimulate the breast tissue to produce milk.

It has additional effects of supressing testorone and progesterone which are the two hormones in womens bodies associated with libido.

In short, while she is breast feeding the lactone in her system is hammering her libido to make sure she doesn't have sex and get pregnant again while she is breastfeeding. Biologically it makes sense.

Also, breast feeding calorifically is the equivalent to running, or jogging at a fair clip. So, she is exhausted and no interest in sex because her hormones are hammered.

I wish it was different but biology is biology.

At the time when my wife was breastfeeding my first son we had a conversation and she said, I desire you but no part of my body is interested in sex. She wanted it to but her body was just flat line. That changed once she stopped breast feeding. Her libido improved and things turned around.

It was tough and once the breast feeding finished I had to confront her about the lack of sex because that was the habit we'd fallen into. Things improved after that.

We're still together 5 years on and both our boys are going to be going to school next year. The first year is tough no doubt about it.

I had to outright state a couple of occaisions that I wouldn't stay in a sexless passionless marriage and if she wants one of those she can have one with someone else. She responded well.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

law #16 - use absence to earn respect and honor

law #17 - cultivate an air of unpredictability

law #20 - don't commit to anyone

law #46 - never appear too perfect

you should be fucking other women

or at least make her think that you are

anybody saying not to use dread on a pregnant wife is up in the night. unless you're adding sympathy weight and getting sloppy during the pregnancy dread is already being activated by the comparative swing in smv. my wife has never wanted to fuck as much as when she was pregnant. think about that



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